Cole Escola's 'Stupid' Dream Came True With 'Oh, Mary!'

Summary

Fresh Air: Cole Escola's 'Stupid' Dream Came True With 'Oh, Mary!'

Release Date: May 19, 2025

In this compelling episode of NPR's award-winning program Fresh Air, host Terry Gross and co-host Tonya Mosley engage in an intimate conversation with Cole Escola, the visionary writer and performer behind the Tony-nominated Broadway comedy O Mary. The episode delves deep into the creation, themes, and personal significance of the play, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of Escola's artistic journey and the emotional resonance of their work.

---

Introduction to O Mary

Terry Gross opens the discussion by highlighting the success of O Mary, which has garnered five Tony Award nominations, including Best Play and Best Leading Actor in a Play. The play presents a highly fictionalized and intentionally improbable portrayal of Mary Todd Lincoln during the tumultuous period leading up to President Abraham Lincoln's assassination. Cole Escola, who uses they/them pronouns, not only wrote the play but also stars as Mary, bringing a unique and personal touch to the character.

Terry Gross:
"The Broadway comedy O Mary is nominated for five Tony Awards, including Best Play and Best Leading Actor in a Play. The comedy follows a very fictionalized, intentionally improbable version of First Lady Mary Todd Lincoln in the time leading to her husband's assassination."
[00:17]

O Mary: A Reimagined Narrative

Co-host Enrique notes that The New York Times describes the play as "unhinged, so campy and so unexpected," yet lauds it as one of the best comedies. The play diverges sharply from historical accuracy, instead painting Mary as a depressed, cabaret-obsessed First Lady whose husband attempts to suppress her vibrant aspirations.

Cole Escola as Mary:
"Just another ploy to keep me from drinking and tucked away in the drawing room where no one can see me. Contrary to what your paranoia tells you, I'm not some evil mastermind conspiring to keep you miserable. When you keep me off the stage, you make the whole world miserable."
[01:27]

Origins and Creative Process

Escola recounts the inception of O Mary during a walk around Lincoln Center in 2009. What began as a whimsical "what if" scenario about Mary Todd Lincoln's life post-abdication evolved over twelve years, incorporating various creative sparks that eventually culminated in the play.

Cole Escola:
"I just remember walking around Lincoln Center and I had the thought, what if Abraham Lincoln's assassination wasn't such a bad thing for Mary Todd? And it was just an idea that tickled me so much."
[03:47]

Balancing Fact and Fiction

When questioned about the historical liberties taken in the play, Escola candidly discusses their decision to prioritize comedic storytelling over factual accuracy. This approach was intended to resonate with audiences familiar with general knowledge about Mary Todd Lincoln, allowing for a humorous subversion of expectations.

Cole Escola:
"Well, because it's a comedy. And I had to make something with the same understanding that my audience has..."
[05:00]

Personal Reflections and Identification

Escola draws a profound personal connection to Mary Todd Lincoln, portraying her not just as a historical figure but as a reflection of their own struggles with societal expectations and personal desires. This empathetic portrayal is central to the play's emotional depth and comedic edge.

Cole Escola:
"This play is about a woman with a dream that no one around her understands. A dream that the whole world is telling her is stupid and doesn't make any sense. And I feel that way."
[07:21]

Influences from Cabaret and Early Performances

The episode explores Escola's deep-rooted love for cabaret, which significantly influences both their performance style and the narrative of O Mary. Recalling their early days in New York's cabaret and alternative comedy scenes, Escola emphasizes the importance of storytelling and personal expression in their work.

Cole Escola:
"It's about the story of the song rather than the singing, mostly."
[09:57]

Upbringing and Family Influences

Escola shares poignant memories from their childhood in Klatsky, Oregon, particularly the impact of their grandmother's storytelling. These early experiences fostered a love for narrative and performance, laying the groundwork for Escola's future in theater and comedy.

Cole Escola:
"And mom made $3 a month. Six kids and $3 a month. And just the seriousness. I mean, I'm laughing because I'm just now realizing it was a cabaret act. I never put that together."
[16:52]

Navigating Mental Health Through Art

A candid discussion unfolds as Escola reveals their personal battles with mental health, including suicidal thoughts and bulimia. These struggles were channeled into creating characters like Joyce Connor, a cheerful middle-aged woman repeatedly postponing her suicide—a mechanism that provided both relief and a means to process their emotions.

Cole Escola:
"I started having those thoughts in a character's voice, a voice not unlike my grandma and her friends. And I came up with this character, Joyce Connor..."
[26:54]

Career Milestones and Challenges

Escola reflects on their early acting roles, often playing stereotypically straight characters, which felt limiting. This realization propelled them towards creating more authentic and personally meaningful work, ultimately leading to the groundbreaking success of O Mary.

Cole Escola:
"I didn't even picture myself as a performer. I just, I didn't know what I wanted to do yet."
[25:44]

Emotional Farewell to O Mary

As the play concludes its Broadway run, Escola shares the emotional weight of leaving a project that has been both professionally and personally transformative. Passing the role to talented actors Betty Gilpin and Titus Burgess signifies a heartfelt farewell, underscoring the deep connection Escola feels to O Mary.

Cole Escola:
"I can't believe that my big break came from doing what I wanted to do, like, not compromising. I always assumed that if I ever had any sort of real career success, I would be the gay best friend on a sitcom..."
[37:49]

Looking Forward: Future Endeavors

Despite the bittersweet departure from O Mary, Escola expresses optimism and excitement for future projects. The play's success is a testament to their commitment to authenticity and creative integrity, setting the stage for continued innovation in their artistic career.

Cole Escola:
"I am excited to write what's next."
[37:49]

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Cole Escola as Mary:
  "Just another ploy to keep me from drinking and tucked away in the drawing room where no one can see me..."
  [01:27]

• Creative Inspiration:
  "What if Abraham Lincoln's assassination wasn't such a bad thing for Mary Todd?"
  [03:47]

• Personal Connection:
  "This play is about a woman with a dream that no one around her understands. A dream that the whole world is telling her is stupid and doesn't make any sense. And I feel that way."
  [07:21]

• Mental Health and Art:
  "I came up with this character, Joyce Connor, who was a really sort of cheery, innocuous middle-aged woman who was just kept having to put off her suicide..."
  [26:54]

• Emotional Farewell:
  "I can't believe that my big break came from doing what I wanted to do, like, not compromising."
  [37:49]

---

Conclusion

Cole Escola's conversation on Fresh Air offers a profound glimpse into the making of O Mary and the personal narratives that fuel their artistic endeavors. From reimagining historical figures with a comedic twist to grappling with personal demons through character creation, Escola exemplifies the power of theater as a medium for both humor and healing. As O Mary concludes its Broadway journey, Escola's heartfelt reflections and unwavering passion promise continued contributions to the world of contemporary arts.

Transcript

[Terry Gross]

This message comes from Capital One. Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts. What's in your wallet terms apply. See capitalone.com bank for details. Capital One NA Member FDIC this is FRESH AIR.

I'm Terry Gross. The Broadway comedy O Mary is nominated for five Tony Awards, including best play and best leading actor in a play. The comedy follows a very fictionalized, intentionally improbable version of First Lady Mary Todd Lincoln in the time leading to her husband's assassination. Our guest today, Cole Escola, wrote the play and stars as Mary. Escola uses they them pronouns they spoke with FRESH air's Enrique.

[Enrique]

The New York Times calls the play O Mary unhinged, so campy and so unexpected. They've also called it one of the best comedies. In looking for a close to historically accurate version of Mary Todd Lincoln should definitely look elsewhere because this play is a reimagining based on very few facts. Here the first lady is depressed, sad, beside herself and constantly drinking, not because of the Civil War or even the deaths of her children. She longs for her only true love, cabaret, and her husband, the president was will try anything to stop her.

[Cole Escola]

Just another ploy to keep me from drinking and tucked away in the drawing room where no one can see me. Contrary to what your paranoia tells you, I'm not some evil mastermind conspiring to keep you miserable. When you keep me off the stage, you make the whole world miserable.

[Enrique]

God, for God's sake, Mary, how would.

[Terry Gross]

It look for the first lady of.

[Cole Escola]

The United States to be flitting about the stage right now in the ruins of war? How would it look? Sensational.

[Enrique]

That's Tony nominee Kola Scola as Mary and Tony nominee Conrad Rickamora as Abraham Lincoln. Chola's Gola first received rave reviews for O Mary when it premiered off Broadway in 2024 before transferring to Broadway. In addition to all the Tony nominations, the play was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize in drama. Kola's Gola first came up in the cabaret and alt comedy scenes of New York after moving to the city 20 years ago. They also gained a cult following through their online shorts. They have starred in shows including Search Party, Difficult People and At Home with Amy Sedaris and have written for shows like Hacks, Zway and the Other Two, Cola Scola, welcome to FRESH air.

[Cole Escola]

Thank you for having me. I couldn't have put it better myself. That is exactly who I am.

[Enrique]

Okay, great. Well, do you remember when you first learned about Mary Todd Lincoln and what you learned about her, or at least what your early memories were of her or the President.

[Cole Escola]

She's one of those people that everyone just has sort of background knowledge of, you know, like Mrs. Claus or like, you know, toasters have two slots. It's just things you accept and those kinds of things and people are what interests me most. Because I guess comedy relies so much on expectation that if I know there's a shared expectation by the wide audience, then it's easier to subvert it.

[Enrique]

Well, can you talk about how you first came up with the idea? I think it was in 2009.

[Cole Escola]

Yeah. I don't remember what sparked it. I just remember walking around Lincoln center and I had the thought, what if Abraham Lincoln's assassination wasn't such a bad thing for Mary Todd? And it was just an idea that tickled me so much. And originally in my mind, it was the seed of an idea for, like, Mary's second chapter. Like a sort of Nancy Meyers style divorcee rom com. Like, what did Mary Todd Lincoln do after, you know, like, she fully leaned into herself. And then, yeah, slowly, over 12 years, I kept having other little ideas that eventually added up to the play.

[Enrique]

Now, in an article about the play, one writer says, escola mauls American history. And you do take dramatic license when people ask you if you did research. You joke that you've tried to unlearn what you already knew. But can you talk about why you did not want to do research?

[Cole Escola]

Well, because it's a comedy. And I had to make something with the same understanding that my audience has, like everyone in New York City. I have seen the first 20 minutes of Ken Burns, the Civil War documentary. And I do remember learning bits of information about her coming to New York, you know, during wartime and spending outrageous amounts of money shopping for furniture and clothes and, you know, people in the government and people in America sort of being angry at her for doing that, you know, during wartime. And I. I don't know, I just really related to her.

[Enrique]

Yeah. And she also remodeled the White House with new china and drapes.

[Cole Escola]

Yeah. I mean, she was stuck there. What was she supposed to do? I sort of feel for her in a way that, like, the only option she was given is sit there and look sad. Sit there and be the nation's sadness.

[Enrique]

Yeah, well, I mean, that's another thing that you kind of learn is that she was a grieving woman. I mean, even before her husband was assassinated, she had children who died young. She was grieving. She suffered from mental illness. Like, were those also parts of the inspiration for the play?

[Cole Escola]

You know, the grieving mother stuff? I mostly. I didn't want to have to cast children or figure out children, so I just sort of decided, oh, she hates her kids, and that solved that.

[Enrique]

They both do.

[Cole Escola]

They both do. Yeah. They both hate their kids. And then, you know, funny enough, I read something not long ago about how the Lincolns were neglectful parents. Like Abraham would just let them run rampant in his work study when he was a lawyer. This is literally based on, like, reading three sentences of an article.

[Enrique]

It's true then.

[Cole Escola]

And so it's true. And I'm saying it on npr.

[Enrique]

Yes. Well, you've said that this play is very personal.

[Cole Escola]

And I'll say it again. This play is very personal.

[Enrique]

Well, you. You've said Mary is me.

[Cole Escola]

Yeah.

[Enrique]

How is this play about you?

[Cole Escola]

Um, this play is about a woman with a dream that no one around her understands. A dream that the whole world is telling her is stupid and doesn't make any sense. And I feel that way.

[Enrique]

You've also said that the feeling that Mary has that everyone is annoyed with her.

[Cole Escola]

Yes.

[Enrique]

Is something that you relate to because Abraham thinks that Mary is too much and her dreams are too much. And you worried about that with the way people felt about you.

[Cole Escola]

Yeah. This play is about everyone. A person that everyone thinks is annoying, which is my worst fear. So I'm sort of playing out, basically. Can the audience root for someone annoying? Can a character be so incredibly annoying and you still root for them?

[Enrique]

But is part of it that Mary, you know, she just wants to express herself? She wants to live her truth while, you know, when in her marriage, her role in society, her gender, have sort of prevented her from doing any of that.

[Cole Escola]

Yeah. Yeah. And that also applies to the rest of the characters in this play. Every one of these characters is dealing with a deep, secret desire that they think they shouldn't have. You know, Abraham Lincoln's sexuality. Every character in this play has a want that they think they shouldn't want.

[Enrique]

For people who haven't seen you as Mary, can you describe your wig and your dress?

[Cole Escola]

They're, like, so fun to put on and run and jump around in. I mean, the curls in the wig are high and tight, and they bounce in the most obnoxious, petulant way. And the skirt is so big and cumbersome and yet light enough that I can rip it around like I'm a Tasmanian devil and a tornado.

[Enrique]

I want to unpack what it is about Cabaret that Mary loves and maybe that you love too. Like, what sets cabaret apart from other kinds of performing? There are some things that are maybe factual about cabaret. You know, it's intimate. There is interaction with the audience. It's about personal storytelling.

[Cole Escola]

Yeah, it's about the story of the song rather than the singing, mostly. And.

[Enrique]

Yeah, well, like, Mary, you are a well known cabaret singer, and you came up through this downtown New York scene with people like Bridget Everett and Murray Hill, who people might know from the HBO series, somebody somewhere, among other things. Can you describe what that scene was like? This is the mid to late 2000s.

[Cole Escola]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there was this monthly cabaret show called Our Hit Parade at Joe's Pub. And it was 10 different cabaret or musical or performance artists performing the top 10 Billboard songs of the month, doing their own interpretations of those songs. And it was a monthly show, usually, you know, like over half of the same people and then a few, you know, special guests. And we did that every month for, like, three years. And I was a regular guest. And it's truly, like, I didn't go to school, but I feel like that's where I cut my teeth, so to speak, and learned, like, how to perform and how to write for an audience.

[Enrique]

Well, there's footage online of you performing at the last show in 2012, which was kind of a celebration of, you know, the show coming to an end. Would you mind if we played a little bit of your performance?

[Cole Escola]

I. I'll let you do that. Yeah.

[Enrique]

Okay. Okay. Thanks.

[Cole Escola]

When I was three, my dad chased my mom and me and my little brother out of our trailer because he thought the government was after him. They weren't, but we ended up going to my grandmother's anyway. Actually, we made a pit stop at my mom's AA sponsor's house, but that's for a different show. And I remember when we got there, I was really scared and confused because.

I wasn't sure, are we living here now?

And I remember going to my mom and telling her that I was really scared and afraid. And she gave me the best piece of advice that I've ever received. And she said, cole, go away.

And.

15 years later, I did. I moved here to New York City.

I followed. Yes.

That was seven years ago. And four years ago, I came on this stage and did my first Our Hit Parade. And I sang this song. Take a deep breath as I walk through the doors it's the morning of the very first day say hi to my friends who I ain't seen in a while Try and stay out of everybody's Way, it's my freshman year, and I'm gonna be here for the next four years. And this town hoping one of the senior boys will smile at me and say, you know, I haven't seen you around.

Before.

Cause when you're 15 and somebody tells you he loves you, you're gonna believe them.

[Enrique]

That's Cola scola performing in 2012. I love that performance and the joy of you singing a Taylor Swift song. That's the Taylor Swift song 15 about being in high school.

[Cole Escola]

I mean, listening to that, I wanted to jump out of a window.

[Enrique]

That was 13 years ago.

[Cole Escola]

It was. It was a long time ago. Look, I would have done that a lot differently now. And I would have done it differently knowing that other people would listen to it later.

[Enrique]

Well, I will say that I would pay good money to hear you sing the Taylor Swift songbook.

[Molly Sievi Nesper]

Talk about.

[Enrique]

All the phases.

[Cole Escola]

I'll see you at Carnegie hall in a couple years. Yes.

[Enrique]

Cole, can you describe where you grew up? In Oregon?

[Cole Escola]

Yeah. I grew up in a town called Klatsky, Oregon. It's also the birthplace of Raymond Carver, by the way. So you will see a lot of similarities in our work, but it is a very rainy mill town. It's a gas station on your way from Portland to the coast. Like, 1500 people, lots of trees and nothing much else.

[Enrique]

And that story that you tell on stage during your cabaret act, is that true? You were young. Do you have memories of that?

[Cole Escola]

I do have memories of that. And I remember being excited that we were going to my grandma's because I didn't like the trailer where we lived, and I didn't like my father.

[Enrique]

And you ended up living with your grandmother.

[Cole Escola]

Yeah, and my grandmother and I shared a bedroom, and she taught me how to read and. Yeah.

[Enrique]

Well, you said that you loved to hear your grandmother's stories.

[Cole Escola]

Yeah, yeah.

[Enrique]

What were some of your favorite stories that she would tell you?

[Cole Escola]

She told this story a lot about her 10th birthday when she found out her dad had a stroke and died working in some sort of mine in Canada. And then there was also a story about how she really couldn't see. Her eyesight was really bad, but her family couldn't afford glasses. But then one day, a doctor came to town and gave her a free pair of glasses. These aren't great stories. It was always the way that she told them and the details and the way she, you know, she disappeared into the story in the telling of it, like. And, you know, we didn't have a lot of money. We didn't have A lot of money. And mom made $3 a month. $3 a month. Six kids and $3 a month. And just the seriousness. I mean, I'm laughing because I'm just now realizing it was a cabaret act. I never put that together. That was my first exposure to cabaret was hearing my grandmother with Alzheimer's retell me stories about her childhood in Alberta, Canada.

[Enrique]

Well, I read that you used to stay at home on Mondays because on Mondays your grandmother would have lunch with her friends and you really wanted to hang out with them.

[Cole Escola]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would go to lunch with them. I don't know why. My mom, I'm sure she knew. I mean, it was literally every Monday of second grade that I would say, I'm sick, I need to go to Grandma's. And we would go to this burger joint or the diner with my grandma Irene and her friends Ruby, Grace and Shirley.

[Enrique]

In your comedy, you often do characters that are middle aged women like Mary and like these women that you're speaking of. Do you think your appreciation for women of that certain age sort of began with your grandmother and her friends?

[Cole Escola]

Oh, I mean, undoubtedly. I wanted. I mean, I wanted to be with them. I wanted to be them. I just. They were. And they. Because they also loved me. They loved. I was so precocious and they were always just shower. I mean, after my grandmother, her Alzheimer's got really bad and she had to move into a nursing home and the, you know, the sort of group of gals split up and all went their separate ways because of health issues. I started going to church by myself. I was like 11 years old because I needed that validation from older women. I needed someone, you know, brewing coffee for the group to look at me and say, well, aren't you just so polite? That was. That was life to me.

[Enrique]

Did you actually become religious then or were you in it for the social?

[Cole Escola]

A little.

[Enrique]

No shade either way?

[Cole Escola]

No, no, no, a little of both. I mean, I definitely remember in that period I was praying a lot to God to make me bisexual. I knew my attraction to men was so strong. I knew I was like, well, there's no way even God can take that away. I'm not asking you to take anything away. Just give me, please, an att to women and I will. And I will only act on that, I promise. Which, you know, in retrospect is of course sad, but also now that I'm safe, it's amusing.

[Enrique]

My guest is comic writer and actor Cole Escola. They're nominated for two Tony Awards, Best play and best leading actor in a play for the Broadway show O Mary. More after a break. I'm Annemarie Baldonado and this is FRESH.

[Terry Gross]

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[Enrique]

I'm Tonya Moseley, co host of Fresh Air. At a time of sound bites and short attention spans, our show is all about the deep dive. We do long form interviews with people behind the best in film, books, tv, music and journalism. Here, our guests open up about their process and their lives in ways you've never heard before. Listen to the Fresh AIR podcast from NPR and WHYY.

[Cole Escola]

On the Indicator from Planet Money podcast. We're here to help you make sense of the economic news from Trump's tariffs.

[Terry Gross]

It's called in game theory a trigger strategy, or sometimes called grim trigger, which.

[Cole Escola]

Sort of has a cowboy esque ring to it to what exactly a sovereign wealth fund is. For insight every weekday, listen to NPR's.

[Terry Gross]

The Indicator from Planet Money.

[Enrique]

Hi, this is Molly Sievi Nesper, digital.

[Cole Escola]

Producer at Fresh air.

[Terry Gross]

And this is Terry Gross, host of the show.

[Enrique]

One of the things I do is.

[Terry Gross]

Write the weekly newsletter and I'm a newsletter fan. I read it every Saturday after breakfast. The newsletter includes all the week shows, Saturday staff recommendations and Molly Picks timely highlights from the archive. It's a fun read.

[Enrique]

It's also the only place where we tell you what's coming up next week, an exclusive.

[Terry Gross]

So [e-mail] fresh air and look for an email from Molly every Saturday morning.

[Enrique]

When did you find performing? I think your first play was when you were 11.

[Cole Escola]

That was my first professional acting job. But when I was, I think four, we didn't have performing arts in our town in Klatsk and I but there was this company called Missoula Children's Theater. And every year they would two adults from this theater company would come to town for one week and in that one week they would do auditions on Monday and the show was on Friday. And I just lived for that one week a year. But then, yeah, my first professional acting job was in a production of Grapes Of Wrath. I played Winfield Joad, and it was in a town 30 miles away from Klatsk and I, where I grew up. And during that time, my grandmother lived in a nursing home, and it was close, and it was much, much, much closer to the theater than where I lived. So some nights after rehearsals, I would stay over at her nursing home.

[Enrique]

What was it like being a kid in the nursing home?

[Cole Escola]

Well, I wasn't sure that I was allowed to be there. Like, I knew I could visit. I was pretty sure I wasn't allowed to spend the night, but I did anyway. And it felt. It was weird. I was lying to so many adults just so that I could be in this play. I think I lied to my mom, and I told her, like, oh, no, the play feeds us. And meanwhile, I wasn't eating because I knew if I said, I need money for food, she would say, well, we can't do that. I'm sorry. You can't do this play. And, you know, I lied to the adults in the play saying, like, oh, yeah, no, I can stay with my grandma in the nursing home so I can be late at rehearsal and just 11 years old trying to keep everyone in the dark about my. The fact that I was a child.

[Enrique]

Well, you know, Grapes of Wrath, a serious play. But you. Like you're saying, but you ended up finding community there, like an extended family in the house.

[Cole Escola]

Yeah. This woman that played Rose of Sharon, her name was Susan, she bought me food on our meal breaks every day, and she never. Like, it was never an issue. I never asked her. She just. She saw what was going on and. Yeah, so she would. She would buy me food, and then other actors would give me rides to my grandma's nursing home, and I was in heaven.

[Enrique]

Now, you were in shows like you said you were in Fiddler on the Roof, Little Shop of Horrors, Les Miserables. What kind of parts did you play?

[Cole Escola]

Well, because I was a. You know, for all intents and purposes at the time, a boy who could sing. I was always cast as, you know, like. Like the romantic male lead, like Matt in the Fantasticks or Marius and Les Mis. Seymour on Little Shop was a little fun because at least I got to dance a tango with Mr. Mushnick for Mushnik and Son. So I got to be. I got to be girl in that one number. But, yeah, for the most part, I played these really boring parts that didn't speak to me or spark me at all. And sort of for that reason, I didn't pursue acting after high school. I didn't think that that's what I wanted to do.

[Enrique]

So when you sort of pictured yourself as a performer in the future, it wasn't as an actor in plays?

[Cole Escola]

No, I didn't even picture myself as a performer. I just, I didn't know what I wanted to do yet. But I was like, oh, okay, so if I want to be an actor, I'm gonna have to go to school and learn how to move less gay and talk less gay and play these boring boy parts. And I was like, I don't think, I don't think I want to do that.

[Enrique]

Well, you've said that you always associated, quote unquote, theater with pretending to be straight.

[Cole Escola]

Yes.

[Enrique]

That's what you're talking about.

[Cole Escola]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Enrique]

Even back then you felt that way.

[Cole Escola]

Yeah, especially back then. Now I don't at all. And, you know, I would play the stage manager in our town like a bitter, bitchy, old, jaded queen and not think nothing of it.

[Enrique]

Well, I read that.

[Cole Escola]

In fact, go ahead, someone please produce that. I would love to try that out.

[Enrique]

Well, when you first were in New York, you weren't sure that you wanted to be performer. What then inspired you to become one, to start making viral videos was what you did?

[Cole Escola]

Well, it was a couple things. There was I was miserable. I was truly suicidal. I was bulimic, you know, and I was walking around near Bloomingdale's and I remember I was having these like, thoughts about like, not wanting to be alive. And then I started having those thoughts in a character's voice, a voice not unlike my grandma and her friends. And I came up with this character, Joyce Connor, who was a really sort of cheery, innocuous middle aged woman who was just kept having to put off her suicide because so many things kept popping up over the weekend. And that for some reason was like this huge release valve. Like, it both allowed me to feel what I was feeling but also relieved me from feeling burdened by what I was feeling.

[Enrique]

My guest is Cole Escola. Again, if you or someone you know is considering suicide, you can call or text the number 988. More after a break. This is FRESH AIR. Short Wave thinks of science as an.

[Molly Sievi Nesper]

Invisible force showing up in your everyday.

[Enrique]

Life, powering the food you eat, the medicine you use, the tech in your pocket. Science is approachable because it's already part of your life. Come explore these connections on the shortwave podcast from npr.

[Terry Gross]

Conductor Robert Franz says a good melody.

[Cole Escola]

Captures our attention and that it moves you through time. Music is architecture in time. If you engage in the moment with what you're listening to, you do lose a sense of. Of the time around you.

[Terry Gross]

How we experience time.

[Enrique]

That's on the TED Radio hour from npr.

[Terry Gross]

A lot of short daily news podcasts.

[Enrique]

Focus on just one story, but right now you probably need more on. Up first from NPR, we bring you three of the world's top headlines every day in under 15 minutes. Because no one story can capture all that's happening in this big crazy world of ours on any given morning. Listen now to the upverse podcast from npr. Well, you were part, or maybe still are part of what New York magazine called at the time a wave of new queer comedy with comics like Bow and Yang and John early and all the people you've been mentioning in the 2010s, I guess, were there places where queer comedians would perform outside of what could be considered, quote unquote, mainstream comedy clubs, whatever that means?

[Cole Escola]

I actually kind of predated it a little bit. You know, I was emceeing folk shows as characters at dive bars. I just sort of went where I was invited or like, where I felt like I could get in. I never, I never sought out new ground to break. I was just like, I want to do this thing that I want to do. Where can I do it? There? Okay, I'll make it good. And hopefully if I make it good, people will come.

[Enrique]

I imagine that the shows that you were doing as being places where friends would gather and try to make each other laugh and maybe be silly or absurd as much as possible.

[Cole Escola]

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I didn't really, and still don't identify really as a comedian because it's hard for me to just, like, plug and play, as they say. Like, just like, take what I do and stick it in a lineup. Like, I would perform with these, you know, other brilliant comedians like Bowen and John and Julio Torres and Joel Kim Booster and Matt Rogers. But, you know, the list goes on and on. But I always felt a little like they were doing their old aunt a favor, letting her bring her wigs and do her little characters and then. And it was hard to, like, it's hard to win an audience over by, you know, stand up is you're talking to the audience, and then I come on in a wig and put up a fourth wall and it's like, what? Ew, Go away.

[Enrique]

Well, is it out of this, you know, community that O Mary became possible? Like, did you workshop it and try it out in smaller venues, or did O Mary kind of come out fully formed?

[Cole Escola]

It basically came out Fully formed. For three years, I did a solo sketch show every month at the Duplex. And I did it at the Duplex because if you got over 60 or 65 people, they let you keep 100% of the door because they made money off the two drink minimum. I truly did it because I was like, oh, my God, I can perform and make, like, $900 a month. And so I set this challenge up for myself that I would write a whole new hour every month. And I did that. And it was so challenging and maybe the most, like, fun, rewarding thing that I ever did for myself. But in writing sketches, I sort of learned how I think a scene should work. And then after doing those shows for three years, I thought, I wonder if. If I can build a show of scenes like this that makes sense altogether with an arc, but that also are, you know, like, tight, funny scenes. Basically a sitcom. I wanted to see if I could write a sitcom.

[Enrique]

And. Is a play a sitcom?

[Cole Escola]

Yeah, sitcoms are plays. I mean.

[Enrique]

Oh, other way.

[Cole Escola]

Yeah. Well, I mean, I think plays predate sitcoms. You'll have to fact check me on that. Get your research department on the phone. But, yeah, yeah.

[Enrique]

Was it surprising to you? Like, did you ever, in your mind, imagine that it would become this phenomenon.

[Cole Escola]

That it is never. Never, ever, ever. I mean, who would ever think, like, okay, Cole, a play where you're in drag playing Mary Todd Lincoln as a wannabe cabaret star? I think you should pursue this as a big Broadway hit like that. I mean, absolutely not. We were, like, over the moon that we got eight weeks at the Lucille Lortel Theater. And I still think that's really cool. I can't believe that we did get that. But, like, yeah, I still can't really wrap my head around it. And I'm leaving the show. June 21st is my last performance, and I'm slowly starting to wrap my head around the whole experience. And I will say, I've been crying a lot.

[Enrique]

Well, you left the show earlier this year. Took a few months off, but then you came back. I'm wondering if, when you first left, did you know you were leaving the role for just a short period of time and coming back? Because it's rare for original cast members to return to a show after leaving.

[Cole Escola]

I. Well, I wanted to come back because I was like, I want to close the show. I thought this was when we were like, okay, we're closing at the end of June, and, you know, we intended to do this show eight weeks off Broadway, and then once it was going well, we were like, oh, my God, I hope we can extend three weeks. And then we went to Broadway, and then suddenly it's. I was doing the play for a full calendar year. I had projects, like scripts that I had promised that I had been paid to write that I didn't write because I was like, well, I'll do it after the eight week Omar run. And then, okay, well, I'll do it after the three week extension. And I was just like, I need. I need a break. I also had to move out of my apartment. I was like, I just need time to, like, get all of these things back in order. And then I want to come back to the show and say goodbye to the show and close it.

[Enrique]

When you first took your break, you handed it off first to actress Betty Gilpin and then to actor Tithus Burgess.

[Cole Escola]

Yes.

[Enrique]

What was it like handing off the role that you wrote for yourself?

[Cole Escola]

I was scared. I don't know. I was scared for all the reasons, like, what if they're. Like, what if they don't quite get it? Or what if they, like. I don't know. I was scared because I didn't know what to expect. And then the way that they both embraced this role, like, it's like it was their dream role. Mm. Is so satisfying. And I've said this before, but, like, as someone who is always begging their friends to, like, please be in my movie, like, can we please, like, make this little movie? Can we please, like, put a skit together for the talent show? To now have, like, two of my favorite actors in the world, Betty Gilpin and Titus Burgess, who are both so deep and so funny, take on a role and, like, love it, as if it was given to them by, you know, Mike Nichols or George Cukor. It's like I can't think of a better feeling.

[Enrique]

What is making you so emotional about leaving the show? I mean, it is something you've devoted so much time to for decades.

[Cole Escola]

Um, I can't believe that my big break came from doing what I wanted to do, like, not compromising. I always assumed that if, like, you know, I ever had any sort of, quote, unquote, real career success, you know, I would be the gay best friend on a sitcom I'm embarrassed to talk about on a panel, but it's also the best thing that's ever happened to me in my whole life. So I am excited to write what's next.

[Enrique]

Cole Escola, congratulations on the Tony nominations, and thank you so much for joining us.

[Cole Escola]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Terry Gross]

Cola Escola spoke with Fresh air's Annri Boldonaro. Escola will play the role of Mary Todd Lincoln until June 21st. O Mary continues its Broadway run through September. Coming up, our book critic Maureen Corrigan reviews a new novel from Ocean Vuong, which she calls truly great. This is FRESH air.

[Enrique]

Is America sliding towards authoritarianism? Hundreds of academics say yes, it is.

[Cole Escola]

Certainly reversible, but we are no longer living in a liberal democracy.

[Enrique]

Where is American democracy heading? Listen now to the Sunday story on.

[Terry Gross]

The UPVERSE podcast from npr. When the Star wars prequels came out, they were polarizing.

[Cole Escola]

Many fans of the original trilogy hated.

[Terry Gross]

The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith, though many younger fans loved them then and loved them still. So we're rewatching them with fresh eyes 20 years later. From Jar Jar Binks to the climactic.

[Cole Escola]

No that broke the Internet in half.

[Terry Gross]

Listen on NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast.

[Enrique]

Tariffs, recessions, how Colombian drug cartels gave us blueberries all year long. That's the kind of thing the Planet Money podcast explains. I'm Sarah Gonzalez, and on Planet Money we help you understand the economy and how things all around you came to be the way they are, para que sepas.

[Terry Gross]

So you know.

[Enrique]

Listen to the Planet Money podcast from npr.

[Terry Gross]

One of this year's most anticipated novels has just arrived. The Emperor of Gladness is is Ocean Vuong's second novel. It follows his celebrated 2019 debut, On Earth, We're Briefly Gorgeous. Our book critic Maureen Corrigan says Vuong's admirers, of which she's one, will not be disappointed.

[Molly Sievi Nesper]

Ocean Vuong's 2019 debut novel, On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous, was one of those novels that made me silently pledge, I'll follow you anywhere, whatever you write. And so I have into Vuong's 2022 poetry collection, Time Is a Mother, and now his second novel. The Emperor of Gladness, like its predecessor, explores what Vuong has called in a recent interview the loneliness of class movement. Sprawling where its predecessor was compact, the Emperor of Gladness opens on a view sweeping in time and space, of East Gladness, Connecticut, a town that manufacturing left behind. Our tour guides are the spirits of the place who speak to us in a collective voice. Follow the train tracks, the ghosts advise, till they fork off and sink into a path of trampled weeds leading to a junkyard packed with school buses in various stages of amnesia. Furred with ivy, their dented hoods pooled with crisp leaves, they are relics of our mislearning. If the novel's opening calls to mind Thornton Wilder. Glazed with Springsteen. What happens next reads like Vuong's nod to Frank Capra and his classic 1946 film, It's a Wonderful Life. Our main character, a 19 year old depressed Vietnamese American boy named Hai, stands on the town bridge. Hai has lied to his immigrant mother. She knows he's dropped out of college, but in an effort to make her feel better, Hai claims he's been accepted to med school, which she naively believes her joy fills him with self loathing. As Hai is about to jump into the river below, he's stopped not by Clarence the Angel, but by an elderly woman whose house abuts the river. Grazina arrived in East Gladness as a Lithuanian refugee after World War II. She's now a widow, suffering from dementia and stranded in what was once a thriving blue collar neighborhood. Because she has an empty house and Hai can't return to his mother, the two settle in together, with Hai becoming Grazina's caregiver. This is one vision of a found family that Vuong presents in the Emperor of Gladness, and its miraculous lack of sentimentality surely owes something to the fact that he lived a similar story himself. In fact, Vuong dedicates this novel to his Grazina. Vuong's gifts of writerly restraint also keep things real here, about midway through the novel, Grazina asks Hai, who's giving her a bath, if he'll undress for once so she doesn't feel like I'm some patient. Hai steps out of his boxers and Grazina looks at him, the relationship silently equalized. But it's another type of found family that this novel even more deeply explores. The that is, the often fleeting but intense one that sometimes emerges through work. Hye finds a job at a local, fast, casual restaurant called Home Market, although he quickly catches on that at Home Market, made by hand meant heating up the contents of a bag of mushy food cooked nearly a year ago in a laboratory outside Des Moines and vacuum sealed in industrial resin sacks. There are pages of wry and often compassionate catalogs here, describing the routines of Hai and his fellow workers, as well as the drugs they take to get through the pain and exhaustion of those routines. Every day this crew spends more of their waking hours with each other than they do with anyone else. One result is that they can sniff each other's presence. Before long, Hai began to know which employee was behind him by their scent alone. The Johnson and Johnson baby lotion Wayne rubbed over grease burns on his arms, the traces of whiskey coming through the Wrigleys. Maureen chewed the bootleg Tom Ford BJ Wore cut with the strawberry Starbursts Russia was always sucking on. The Emperor of Gladness is a truly great novel about work, still an under acknowledged topic in American fiction. Hard work is supposed to get you somewhere that's part of the promise of America. But the payoff feels much less certain to these characters. A winning lottery ticket, an inheritance, maybe even a union would have to come along to propel these characters to a place of greater humane possibility. Vuong's achingly austere artistic vision leaves it to his readers to imagine the better world he won't let himself depict on the pages of this wonderful novel.

[Terry Gross]

Maureen Corrigan is a professor of literature at Georgetown University. She reviewed the Emperor of Gladness by Ocean Vuong. Tomorrow on FRESH air, I'll talk with CNN host Jake Tapper about his new book, Original Sin, President Biden's decline, its cover up and his disastrous choice to run again. Tapper says the book goes to universal questions about groupthink, courage, cowardice and patriotism. He adds, this doesn't excuse or normalize President Trump's actions. I hope you'll join us to keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews. Follow us on Instagram P R FRESH air Fresh air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our managing producer is Sam Brigger. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Anne Marie Boldonato, Lauren Krenzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Yakundi and Anna Bauman. Our digital media producer is Molly CV Nesper. Our new consulting video producer is Hope Wilson. Welcome, Hope. Roberta Shurrock directs the show. Our co host is Tanya Moseley. I'm Terry.

[Cole Escola]

Sam IT.

[Terry Gross]

Support for NPR comes from this station and from Capital One with the Capital One Saver card. What's in your wallet? Terms apply [e-mail] and from indeed committed to giving job listings increased visibility with relevant candidates through its sponsor Jobs feature. Learn more at Indeed.com NPR this message comes from Saatva. Sleeping well can boost your mood and improve focus. A Saatva luxury mattress can help you experience that kind of sleep. Save $600 on $1,000 or more at saatva.com NPR with a major shift in our politics underway in this country, 1A is drilling down on what's at stake for you and our democracy. In our weekly series, if youf Can Keep it, we put these changes into focus and answer your questions about the impact of the Trump administration on the U.S. join us every Monday for if youf Can Keep it on the One, a podcast from NPR and WAMU.

[Cole Escola]

When Malcolm Gladwell presented NPR's Throughline podcast with a Peabody Award, he praised it for its historical and moral clarity. On Throughline, we take you back in time to the origins of what's in the news, like presidential power, aging, and evangelicalism. Time travel with us every week on the Throughline podcast from NPR.