Comic Bill Burr On Musk, Magic Mushrooms & Healing From His Childhood

Summary

Fresh Air Podcast Summary: Bill Burr on Musk, Magic Mushrooms & Healing From His Childhood

Podcast Information:

• Title: Fresh Air
• Host: Terry Gross, NPR
• Episode: Comic Bill Burr On Musk, Magic Mushrooms & Healing From His Childhood
• Release Date: March 10, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of Fresh Air, host Terry Gross engages in an in-depth conversation with acclaimed stand-up comedian and actor Bill Burr. Recognized by The New York Times as one of the greatest living stand-up comics and by Rolling Stone as the "undisputed heavyweight champ of rage-fueled humor," Burr delves into his latest comedy special, personal struggles with anger, political views, and his journey toward personal healing.

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Comedy Career and New Special: Drop Dead Years

Bill Burr introduces his new comedy special, "Drop Dead Years," which premiered on Hulu on March 14, 2025. The special showcases his signature rage-driven humor, opening with a bit about Los Angeles traffic and his temptation to misuse the HOV lane:

Bill Burr [00:48]: "I could go in there by myself, okay? But if there's a cop there, I'm gonna get pulled over... I could join the Ku Klux Klan and not get in trouble, right?"

Burr’s humor often touches on everyday frustrations, societal norms, and personal anecdotes, blending anger with sharp wit.

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Personal Life and Anger Management

Burr reflects on his journey to understanding and managing his anger, both on and off the stage. He discusses the misconception that his comedy solely represents his personality:

Bill Burr [03:44]: "Most people that get on a stage... think that this little sliver of you is what you are... it's two-dimensional."

He acknowledges the effort to balance his public persona with his private self, striving to portray a more nuanced version of himself. Burr attributes his awareness of his anger to feedback from multiple sources, including his wife and audience:

Bill Burr [05:12]: "If it makes sense, okay... I would love to be in the middle of some stupid argument... and just be able to stop in the middle of it and just be like, what are we doing?"

Through therapy and personal reflection, Burr is working towards mitigating his anger in real-time interactions, aiming for healthier relationships.

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Political Views and Rants

Burr does not shy away from expressing his controversial political opinions, often criticizing liberal ideologies and figures like Elon Musk. His candidness leads to heated exchanges with Terry Gross:

Bill Burr [13:16]: "That idiot, Elon Musk... he's gonna fight his way out of a wet paper bag."

Burr criticizes the inconsistency he perceives in liberal responses, particularly regarding cancel culture and the MeToo movement. He expresses frustration with what he sees as performative activism:

Bill Burr [16:54]: "If you're not where you want to be in life, it's because of men. I don't subscribe to that any more than I subscribe to 80s dumb brutes needing to be home making me a sandwich."

Despite the contentious topics, Burr maintains his comedic stance, using humor to navigate and challenge sensitive issues.

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Acting Career and F is for Family

Beyond stand-up, Burr discusses his involvement in the Broadway revival of David Mamet's "Glengarry Glen Ross" alongside actors like Kieran Culkin and Bob Odenkirk. Additionally, he co-created and voices characters in the animated series "F is for Family," where he channels his personal experiences into comedic storytelling.

A notable moment from "F is for Family" is when Burr portrays an angry father, reflecting his own childhood struggles:

Bill Burr [25:25]: "Nobody ever gets hurt or suffer, Susan. Okay? It's always some salesman..."

This portrayal allows Burr to blend humor with heartfelt insights into familial relationships and personal growth.

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Reflections and Personal Growth

Burr shares his experiences with psychedelics, specifically magic mushrooms, as a tool for introspection and emotional healing:

Bill Burr [32:14]: "Mushrooms is this cold bucket of water that just is like, oh, my God... it was a profound sense of loneliness."

He emphasizes the importance of therapeutic settings when experimenting with such substances, acknowledging the potential risks and the need for guided experiences.

Burr also touches upon his role as a father, striving to break the cycle of anger from his upbringing:

Bill Burr [23:43]: "I family know how much I love my wife and how beautiful I think she is... My job is that that stuff dies with me."

His commitment to providing a loving and supportive environment for his children underscores his dedication to personal improvement and resilience.

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Notable Quotes

• On Anger and Comedy:

  Bill Burr [02:44]: "The way I've moved through the world has always been like, where's the place I have the least chance of being heard?"

• On Personal Change:

  Bill Burr [05:08]: "I listen to people. I try to anyway... Sometimes that might take a day for me to think about something."

• On Political Disillusionment:

  Bill Burr [15:29]: "I just think it's a phony ideology where what they really do is it's a bunch of white chicks trying to fix their immediate area."

• On Personal Relationships:

  Bill Burr [22:04]: "There was a lot of women that, it's like, is this a marriage or is this like a hostage situation?"

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Conclusion

In this candid and multifaceted interview, Bill Burr offers listeners a glimpse into the complexities behind his comedic façade. From grappling with inherited anger issues to navigating the turbulent waters of political correctness and personal relationships, Burr's honesty and self-awareness provide a deeper understanding of the man behind the rage-fueled humor. His journey towards personal healing and growth, intertwined with his professional endeavors, paints a portrait of a comedian striving to reconcile his past with his evolving self.

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Additional Information:

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Transcript

[Terry Gross]

Terry this is FRESH Air. I'm Terry Gross. My guest, Bill Burr was recently described by New York Times comedy columnist Jason Zinneman as one of the greatest living stand up comics. In Rolling Stone, Burr was described as the undisputed heavyweight champ of rage fueled humor. Bill Burr has a new comedy special on Hulu called Drop Dead Years. It starts streaming Friday, March 14th. Here's an excerpt. He's talking about driving on the freeway in LA where he lives, when he's caught in bumper to bumper traffic. Meanwhile, there's hardly any cars in the HOV lane, the high occupancy vehicle lane, which is reserved for vehicles with at least two people. He's tempted to get into that lane even though there's no one else in his car. But he knows the HOV rules are strictly enforced.

[Bill Burr]

I could go in there by myself, okay? But if there's a cop there, I'm gonna get pulled over. I'm gonna get yelled at. I get a ticket and my insurance goes up. I am not allowed to do that. However, I can still join the Klan. I can join the Ku Klux Klan and not get in trouble, right? I don't get yelled at. I don't get a ticket, no insurance goes up. I could drive down the highway in my Klan outfit as long as I had the mud flap up.

[Terry Gross]

All right?

[Bill Burr]

It could say Grand Dragon on the front of the sheet. I could have a white power bumper sticker. I could have a Hitler bobblehead right on the dashboard, just sitting at him going like that. I would not get pulled over unless I went into the HOV lane, right? And then I wouldn't get pulled over because I joined a terrorist organization. I would get pulled over because I didn't have another terrorist with me. That's what the problem would be. Yeah, the cop will be coming up like, well, well, well. Aren't we in a hurry to get to the Cross Burden this evening, huh? Who the hell do you think you are, buddy?

[Terry Gross]

Okay, that's Bill Burr from his new comedy special. He's also one of the stars of the new Broadway revival of the David Mamet play Glengarry Glen Ross. The revival has an incredible cast. Burr, Kieran Culkin, Bob odenkirk and Michael McKean. Berco starred in the film King of Staten island, which was loosely based on the life of the film's star, Pete Davidson. Berco created, co, wrote and starred in the animated series F Is for Family. Although he's known for comedy that's often contrarian and angry, the new Comedy special Drop Dead Years opens like this.

[Bill Burr]

It's kind of a weird thing to be over 50, really starting to realize how you are. Like, I thought I did stand up cause I loved comedy. And then what I really figured out was like, no, that's not why I did it. I did stand up because that was the easiest way to walk into a room full of a bunch of people that I didn't know and make everybody like me.

[Terry Gross]

Ladies and gentlemen, Bill Burr.

[Bill Burr]

The way I've moved through the world has always been like, where's the place I have the least chance of being heard?

[Terry Gross]

Bill Burr, welcome to FRESH air. It's a pleasure to have you on the show.

[Bill Burr]

What's going on? How are you?

[Terry Gross]

I'm good. It seems unusual for you to start on a note of vulnerability like you do in this new special. Does this mark a change in your public or private self?

[Bill Burr]

It's something I've kind of been going towards. But also, I don't think, you know, like, most people that get on a stage, they just sort of watch what you do and then think that this little sliver of you is what you are or whatever. Like that Rolling Stone thing saying that I was the king of rage comedy, you know, and it's in Rolling Stones. So everybody listens to it. So then they just think I'm walking around just furious all the time. It's two dimensional. So. And then there's also part of me that really hates the fact that I have been so angry and had this temper and stuff. It was something I never wanted to be. It's something I grew up with. And you know, you think to yourself, like, I'm not doing that. I'm not gonna be like this person. Cause they're making me feel bad as a kid. And then you grow up and you end up. It's the weird thing, in order to not be it, I think a lot of times you have to be it for a while. And it's weird. It takes somebody else in your life to let you know that that's how you're being because a lot of times you just dialed it down a little bit. And to you that means you've leveled off. Like where your normal is is not where normal people's normal is. So you're like, what? You know, I didn't throw a chair across the room. I'm an easygoing. I let stuff roll off my back.

[Terry Gross]

So who was the person who told you? Was it your wife, your therapist?

[Bill Burr]

God, everybody in my life, everybody. People reviewing my act, my Wife, you know, there's only, like. You can only argue your point, you know, for so long. I mean, when like a hundred people in the row are going like, nah, you know, you're pretty angry. You know, you got like, all right, I guess I gotta look at this. But it's been like a great thing. But, like, I don't know. I listen to people. I try to anyway. So when they come at me with something, you know, if it makes sense, okay, if it makes sense, and I'm in an emotional state that I can actually hear somebody else, which sometimes that might take a day for me to think about something. I am the king of a day later being like, hey, you know. You know that thing I was arguing last night? Yeah, you were right. I'm sorry. I just. I don't know why. And you know, what's the torture right now is I find myself in the moment now knowing I'm wrong or knowing I should just stop this argument and it's not worth it. And I've gotten to the point that that voice is getting louder in my head, but I haven't been able to act on it in the moment. And that's what I'm working towards. I would love to be in the middle of some stupid argument with my wife or whoever and just be able to stop in the middle of it and just be like, what are we doing? Life is flying by. This isn't worth anything. You know, this isn't worth it. Who cares? You know, something like that.

[Terry Gross]

At the start of your new special, you said that you started doing stand up. Cause it was the easiest way of walking into a room and making people like you.

[Bill Burr]

They would like me so they wouldn't hurt me.

[Terry Gross]

So what kind of hurt are you talking about? Insults or being ignored, bullied, mocked?

[Bill Burr]

Every way that you can be abused is what I'm talking about.

[Terry Gross]

Have you been abused in all those ways?

[Bill Burr]

Oh, yeah. I got the trifecta. I have the background needed to become a comedian. So, yeah, it just was. It's just how it was. And it's just the time I grew up in. And it was just the way it was. And there was a lot of it. There was a lot of it. I did not have a unique experience growing up. I kind of feel like I had the standard, especially from, you know, talking to people. Or maybe I just hang out with too many comedians. I don't know what. But we all kind of had a similar background. And, you know, when you go through stuff like that, you come out the other side it kind of seems one of two ways. You either come out being like, I'm not doing that. And then what's funny is you overcorrect. You become super empathetic to the point you could end up in the trunk of somebody's car, like, oh, I'll help you out, stranger. You know, or you go the other way is like, you become an abuser. So, fortunately, I didn't do that. But I have been guilty of being abusive, not realizing, you know, the effect that my behavior and my anger was having on the people around me. Because in my world, I wasn't as angry as what I saw growing up. So in my world, I wasn't angry. It wasn't a big deal. What I've actually found is, you know, that whole myth that you can't be happy and still be funny is a myth. And what it actually does is it breathes new life into your act because you can now go back and revisit topics you've been to before and have a 360 perspective instead of like, I always feel like my standup. Like, the first 75% of my career is me standing on stage, pointing at the crowd, figuratively, literally, or at whatever subject. And I was always the guy that knew everything and da, da, da, da, da, you know, and the last, like, you know, six, seven year, whatever. I don't know. I've more been looking at my participation in whatever event is happening. So then all that does is it gives it this whole. It gives me way more. Twice as many options for the punchline now. I don't know. I feel lighter on stage lately. I. I don't feel. You know, there was times I would even have good stats and I would get off stage and just feel like. Like, God, what was that? What was that? That did not feel good. Even though the response was good, but it just kind of felt like it just. It didn't feel good because it was meant. It was gross. It was just dark, ugly, just pain and hurt just coming out the wrong way where. Which is so funny because some of the comedians that I loved the most, the way that they processed their pain was a very empathetic sort of way, which I would say. Richard Pryor was the king of that, where you could. He just really had this ability of talking about his mistakes that he made in a way that you could see that it bothered him that he did some of these things, and it also made you root for him. Like, I felt like that was the biggest thing I had as far as being a Fan of his work was beyond finding it hilarious and jaw droppingly brilliant was I found that I was rooting for him in his personal life as he was going through all these marriages and divorces and problems with the cops and drug abuse and lighting himself on fire like, I don't know, I loved the guy and I was just hoping he was gonna find peace.

[Terry Gross]

I wanna back up a little because when you were describing your anger and trying to, like, change, you said you realized you'd been abusive. Do you mean verbally or physically?

[Bill Burr]

Oh, no, no, verbally.

[Terry Gross]

Good. I just wanted to clarify that.

[Bill Burr]

Okay, I'll give you a classic example of that was my thing was I grew up and I saw men calling women all the time and I saw the looks on their faces and I saw it. So I made this rule in my head. I was never gonna do that. And I never did it. I've never done that and never done that to anybody. I don't think in a. I've never done it in a relationship. I might have done it driving in a car. I'm sure I have.

[Terry Gross]

Well, that's one of the things you've talked about, is that you had real road rage.

[Bill Burr]

Sometimes I don't even think that's fair of me to say. I have road rage. I have rage, and now I'm in a car, so now it's on the road. I have road rage. I have kitchen rage, I have. Why do I have to check myself out at a CVS rage? I don't work here. You know what I mean? I love when they, like, giving you, like, a rough time, like, you gotta insert the chip. It's like, I'm sorry I missed training day when I wasn't working here getting paid. Or when they try to get all your information and then they go, you know, we don't share this with anybody. And you wanna be like, you don't. You don't. This is my thing with politicians. The fact that the lack of privacy for the average American citizen, especially women with the amount of women out that have psycho ex boyfriends, the fact that all of these stupid corporations are just allowed to do the things that they're able to do is beyond me. And where my comedy act is right now is I'm trying to get regular people to stop yelling at each other and realize that it's a select few group of nerds, okay, eating raw almonds and doing their stupid workouts and everything and just competing with each other to have the biggest infinity pool. And the rest of us are getting Pushed down. And they've politicized the whole stupid thing and we're falling for it.

[Terry Gross]

And who's the they? Besides people who eat almonds?

[Bill Burr]

That idiot, Elon Musk. Oh, that guy, like he's gonna. Who evidently is a Nazi. Like, I just refuse to believe that it was an accidental two time sieg heil. And he does it at a presidential inauguration. This is why I hate liberals. It's like liberals have no teeth whatsoever. They just go, oh my God, can you believe I'm getting out of the country? I'm just like, you're gonna leave the country cuz of one guy with dyed hair, plugs and a laminated face who runs? Who makes a bad car and has an obsolete social media platform? You're gonna leave this. Why doesn't he leave? Why hasn't he stopped? What are we so afraid of? This guy who can't fight his way out of a wet paper bag.

[Terry Gross]

You can take them on.

[Bill Burr]

Like, what is the why? Why do liberals just sit back and not. They just. They have nothing.

[Terry Gross]

What are you doing? This, okay, this.

[Bill Burr]

You gotta speak up about it. You don't just go like, oh my God, what? Like Justin, first of all, it's like, I'm a standup comedian. It's not my friggin. I'm talking about like Democratic politicians. Where is their pushback? They're allegedly liberal. You see this guy do this thing. You know what the end result of this thing is?

[Terry Gross]

Which?

[Bill Burr]

All these neo Nazis, not only are they stupid because they're neo Nazis, they don't even look at what Hitler did. He ruined their country. And this idiot is gonna try to lead us down that road and then play it off and act like he didn't do what he just did. And you can get canceled as a comedian for doing a frigging Caitlyn Jenner joke. But this ass can seek heil and nothing. Where are all the liberal. Where are all of these, these, these, these white chicks at the award shows? They were speaking truth to power. Where are they? Why did they choose to go after comedians and not the Ku Klux Klan? How come they never got canceled? That's my whole problem with liberals. I just think it's a phony ideology where what they really do is it's a bunch of white chicks trying to fix their immediate area. Like they really took on any entertainment because they were in entertainment and then they didn't do anything else.

[Terry Gross]

I'm gonna stop you. You just blamed all of this on white women?

[Bill Burr]

Yes.

[Terry Gross]

Where are the things where are the men in what you're saying?

[Bill Burr]

Exactly. Cuz you guys went in and you totally took control of the narrative. That whole me too thing was supposed to be about people with not no power speaking to people with power and giving more people opportunities, which meant people of color. And then all of a sudden, white women jumped in and became like the biggest victims in the country. They were the ones that were being listened to. That was what was weird to me.

[Terry Gross]

This is where you kind of lose me.

[Bill Burr]

It doesn't surprise me on this station talking to a white woman that I would lose you.

[Terry Gross]

Well, no, because the MeToo movement for women is about sexual assault.

[Bill Burr]

But then what did it become? What did it morph into? What did it quickly morph into? It then morphed into. I don't like the topic of what you're discussing in your standup act.

[Terry Gross]

Well, I don't want to get into an argument about this, so I'll just.

[Bill Burr]

Say, well, what's funny is this is how I discuss things.

[Terry Gross]

I will just say that. What was the thing that I just said? I just lost it for a second trying to.

[Bill Burr]

I'm saying what it became. It started off like, all right, this Harvey Weinstein guy is raping people. We gotta get people like this out of the business. There was nobody who was against that.

[Terry Gross]

Unless you were an actual protecting him. You know, people were protecting the musicians, the.

[Bill Burr]

I'm not arguing that aspect of it. I'm not arguing that aspect of it.

[Terry Gross]

Anyhow, let's move on.

[Bill Burr]

Wait, wait. No, no, no, no, no. Let's talk about that.

[Terry Gross]

We're not going to talk about. Me too.

[Bill Burr]

Started with that. And then it started this cancel cultural thing with. Initially they were getting these people that were sexually assaulting women and because of their position of power were not being held accountable. They finally got held accountable. Everyone who was a decent human being was on board with that. And then suddenly, within a year, it became. If you were at a comedy club and somebody filmed you and took one little piece of excerpt from your act, all of a sudden you were thrown in with Harvey Weinstein and you were like put on the bench basically. And you were not allowed to work in the frigging business. Am I nuts? Did that not happen?

[Terry Gross]

No, I mean, I think cancel culture probably went too far. I think it's an issue by issue theme.

[Bill Burr]

Yes, we agree.

[Terry Gross]

And there's a real kind of herd mentality around some of it. I think that's really up for a nuanced discussion about what deserves cancellation and.

[Bill Burr]

What'S Just like, nuanced discussion is not one of my strong points.

[Terry Gross]

Okay. Anyhow, you know, we've been talking about, you know, anger and also channeling that into your work as an actor and a comic. I watched a clip of you on the Moth. The Moth is a storytelling podcast that is also a public radio program. And you're so different in that you're sitting on a stool, not kind of pacing back and forth on the stage. You hadn't shaved your head yet. So you have red hair.

[Bill Burr]

You hadn't gone bald yet. It was almost like you were 20 years younger. You had a fresh face.

[Terry Gross]

Yeah, that one was recorded about 20 years old.

[Bill Burr]

Dan Bod, you were a single man dealing with the altitude.

[Terry Gross]

So. But you're just. You're sitting on a stool telling a story that has a few laughs in it.

[Bill Burr]

But no, you know what it is? That's what I was battling, and that's why I couldn't get any good roles. The greatest thing that ever happened to me is I went bald for my acting career. Cause then I shaved my head and I look like the psycho idiot that I am. But back in the day when I actually, when I had hair, you know, Hollywood, you know, they talk about just, you know, racism and sex, everything. It goes beyond that. Like, they even, like, they even divide up redheads. There was, like, rules about redheads. I was in the redhead drawer. Okay. I was in the Opie Ron Howard Howdy Doody drawer. And, like, I didn't get the gun. I didn't win the fight. I didn't get the girl. I. I was a mugging victim. I was just there for the cool guy. And I was saying, I used to do a joke in my act. Like, I'm not the hero of the action movie. Like, I was the nerd in the van when Tom Cruise is going, you gotta give me more time. And I would be in front of the keyboard. All right, I'll try. Click, click, click, click, click. Like.

[Terry Gross]

If you're just joining us, my guest is comic and actor Bill Burr. He's got a new comedy special that's about to start streaming on Hulu. It's called Drop Dead Years. And he's one of the stars of the new Broadway revival of David Mamet's Glengarry Glen Ross. We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Terry Gross, and this is Fresh air. Hi. This is Molly Seaveen Esper, digital producer at Fresh Air. And this is Terry Gross, host of the show. One of the things I do is write the weekly newsletter. And I'm a newsletter fan. I read it every Saturday after breakfast. The newsletter includes all the week shows, staff recommendations and Molly picks timely highlights from the archive. It's a fun read. It's also the only place where we tell you what's coming up next week. An exclusive. So [e-mail] fresh air and look for an email from Molly every Saturday morning. Let's talk a little bit about your childhood.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, Jesus. People are driving to work here. You know, let's try to give them some uplifting.

[Terry Gross]

Your father, apparently, from what I've heard you say, had real rage problems, real anger problems.

[Bill Burr]

And I'll tell you this, he was a normal guy. He was normal like all the dads. The dads when I grew in my neighborhood, when I grew up, the dads were friggin terrifying. Terrifying. They were just, you know, buzz cut lunatics. This is when I was really young, early 70s, just was, it was, it was a different. So I don't wanna just single out my dad, right? He's just the dude I had to deal with. But like, you know, a lot of my buddies I was growing up with came from divorce. So they romanticized my household just for the simple fact that my parents were still together. So what's funny to me, my favorite moment in my new special is I say, you know, me and my wife, we've been married whatever, 10, 11 years. And the crowd spontaneously gives a round of applause and I just, I go, hey, hey. I go, you're not in it. You know, for all you know, I got a chain to a radiator.

[Terry Gross]

I know, I love that.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah. So that's the thing, I'll tell you, like there was like back in the day, like, you know, divorce was just starting to become normal. So I sort of grew up towards the tail end of that. You know, you dance with who you brung and you stick with your by your guy. There was a lot of women that, it's like, is this a marriage or is this like a hostage situation?

[Terry Gross]

It's very funny when you say it and you're literally right.

[Bill Burr]

I remember one time I was playing like Hot Wheels or something like that over a buddy of mine's house. He was like my best friend and we were playing and his dad came home from work and didn't know I was there. And he started in on his wife. And I knew where it was going cause that was the kind of house I grew up in. And I saw the look of panic on his face and I knew that shame, and I knew that embarrassment, and I just said, oh, you know what? This is how young we were. Because he actually believed this. I just went, oh, you know, I just remembered I gotta go home and go do something. And he was like, oh, okay, okay. And I went out the side door, and I was cutting through the woods. And I remember I laughed the whole way home, and I couldn't wait to tell my siblings about it. And they were all, like, blown away. Like, I had been to the moon and came back. And I go, no, his dad is just like our dad. They were like, really? I go, yeah, he was. He was screaming and yelling and calling their names.

[Terry Gross]

Did your father go off on you?

[Bill Burr]

What do you think?

[Terry Gross]

I think probably yes.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, my God.

[Terry Gross]

Okay.

[Bill Burr]

Oh, my God. Yeah. Like, yes, yes. But this is the thing is, I'm older now, and I understand that he didn't understand what he was doing, what it was doing to me, because he dialed down what was done to him. So the same way I didn't think I was an angry person because I wasn't as angry as him. It took meeting somebody like my wife to be like, you're really messed up, and your behavior is hurting me, and it's making me feel bad and all of that type of stuff. So, you know, I almost lost my wife when we were dating because of it, and I loved her, and it was like, what am I gonna do? Am I gonna choose love and work on myself, or am I gonna lose this person? So, you know, that has been me working on. My anger is like a government project. Like, it's over budget. When is it ever gonna get done? You know? So I would say the big thing when I was a kid was I felt this powerlessness, and I just felt like I was on my own, and I felt like I wasn't being heard.

[Terry Gross]

I think you're really good at transforming your real anger and your history of real anger and your history of being the target of real anger into comedy. And an example of that I want to play is from the animated series that you starred in and co wrote, F is for Family. And in the opening episode, the family's sitting around the dinner table, and the phone rings, and the father really goes off on it, and you play the father. So let's hear that scene, and then we'll talk.

[Bill Burr]

I'm not answering that. Frank, you should answer it.

[Terry Gross]

What if somebody got hurt?

[Bill Burr]

Nobody ever gets hurt or suffer, Susan. Okay? It's always some salesman, and I'm not answering it. Dad. We all know you're gonna answer it. You don't know anything about me.

[Terry Gross]

What if it's important?

[Bill Burr]

I sweated blood at that airport for 12 hours today. And what's important to me is I have just one moment of peace with my family enjoying a delicious home cooked meal. Is that too much to ask? I'm not answering. Murphy residence. Oh, let me tell you something, you. I don't need a engraved family Bible. You see? You see what I say every time I am eating dinner with my family, young man? I don't need a $25 Bible to teach me about God. I almost bled out in Korea, all right? I have met God.

[Terry Gross]

Did you write that scene?

[Bill Burr]

I wrote it with a bunch of people. So it was sort of an amalgam of everybody's parent, like dad or whatever in that period. It's more the funnier side of anger. It's also he really shows his love and affection for Susan on the show, the way I wished I had seen that in my house and in other houses. And it's something that I try to make sure that my kids see that they know how much I love my wife and how beautiful I think she is and how amazing I think she is. And it's something that I feel like I've really advanced the ball, so to speak with my kids, because they're really happy kids and they know that they're loved. This is what I've finally gotten to with all my demons, is I can't fix it, all right? It happened. There's nothing I can do about it to make it not have happened. I just look at all of that stuff. My job is that that stuff dies with me. It doesn't get passed on.

[Terry Gross]

It must be great to see yourself through their eyes. They probably have a different picture of you than you think other people have. They don't have this vision of you as like the angry guy on stage.

[Bill Burr]

Yeah, but Terry, do I really do anything to help you not see me that way? I mean, I literally start the thing going, you know? Yeah. You know, it's only a part of me. And then two seconds later I'm flipping out about this stupid thing. I mean, that's literally like what you literally saw in this interview is a day of being me. It's like me starting the day, I'm not gonna flip out. I am going to be this happy, da, da, da. And then before 11am flipping out. And then I'm, ah, sorry about that. And then the other person's a little upset with me. And then by Three in the afternoon, Somebody, I guess he's all right. I think I'll sign up for another day with it. This is basically, I can't. This is just where I am right now. And I'm trying to make it to 12 noon without flipping out or whatever. I just sort of baby step my ways through this.

[Terry Gross]

If you're just joining us, my guest is Bill Burr and he has a new comedy special. It begins Streaming on Hulu March 14th. We'll be right back. This is FRESH AIR. So you're a father of two and one of your series that I think you co created, Old Dads, right?

[Bill Burr]

It was a movie. I co wrote it with Ben Tischler and we actually just co wrote something else that we're gonna be shooting later on this year.

[Terry Gross]

Well, one of the things in Old Dads is that the older fathers, which includes you, don't relate to some of the younger parents and how they're parenting their kids. Did you find that with yourself, you know, being a father?

[Bill Burr]

That's what happened. I went to the school and it started off with little things and it was like, oh, hey, yeah, look at you. You guys are on the jungle gym. And it's like it's called the Structure. And then I got all nervous like, oh, my God, jungle monkeys. Did I just say something racist? Is that why you can't say that anymore? Like, I don't know what it was. And then, you know, we were going around, you know, looking at schools and everything, and they were like, this is a child led program. Like, we let the children lead. So we go out, there's all these dirty kids, like just running around. It was chaos. It was like, is this Lord of the Flies preschool? Like, what are we doing here? What are we doing here? A lot of people in Hollywood are older dads because, you know, this business is so hard trying to figure out how to get a footing and actually get a steady job. You tend to have children later. And then one of my biggest fears when I was a younger comic and I looked at older comics who never got married and never had kids and they were still doing shows and then hanging out afterwards, trying to pick up chicks at the end of it. And it was just, I was like, oh, my God, I don't want to be that guy. I don't want to be that guy. Like, I wanted to get married at 26 and have like five, six kids, but I didn't know how to do it.

[Terry Gross]

So you know what I'd like to do?

[Bill Burr]

Have me stop talking.

[Terry Gross]

You Do a podcast where you talk like an hour straight.

[Bill Burr]

I know I do.

[Terry Gross]

Or more often more. Your mind probably is always on overdrive.

[Bill Burr]

No, that comes from a couple of things. One thing is I have a certain level of social anxiety because of the stuff that I went through that I am really comfortable being alone. And somebody, a good friend of mine, she posted this thing on Instagram that said hyper independence is a trauma response. As far as, like, I'll just do everything myself or whatever. And my dad does that. If he wants an addition on his house, he does it himself. And he's a dentist. It's hilarious, right? And I was doing that. And I think, in a way, doing a podcast by myself is sort of the fallout of that. And I can talk to a whole bunch of people, but they can't get to me or hurt me. I don't know. It's not the main thing, but it's in the gumbo of that. And I've learned all of these things post doing mushrooms.

[Terry Gross]

Oh, really? Well, those are really interesting insights. And you got them from doing mushrooms?

[Bill Burr]

Oh, yeah. I would say therapy is the treadmill, but mushrooms is this cold bucket of water that just is like, oh, my God, I started tripping, and it was goofy, and I was laughing. I was like, wow, this is wild. And then all of a sudden, like, this feeling came over me, and I couldn't really figure out what it was. How would I just. It was this profound sense of loneliness. And then I just asked the. I think I asked the question, which really is a cool thing to do when you're on mushrooms, to kind of say, what are you trying to tell me? And the answer was, basically, this is how you felt growing up. And that just, like, blew my mind because I thought I didn't care because that's what I always said. That was my sort of catchphrase. I don't care. I don't care. That's how I dealt with it and how I connected with people was I made them laugh, and then I became a standup comedian. And then all these strangers were gonna love me, and then the pain was gonna end, and then I was gonna be totally fixed. Well, that didn't work. So this let me know that it did bother me and that I was hurt and it did affect me. And it was the weirdest thing, like, for, like, a week after, I was who I would have been if all of this stuff didn't happen to me. It was like this honeymoon phase, this euphoria. It made me want to become a better person. It made me want to fix my life. But then after seven days, the anger came back tenfold. And then I had to work through that. But that was only like a three week thing because I kind of saw who I could be.

[Terry Gross]

I feel a responsibility to say here that it's recommended that if you do mushrooms, you do it in a therapeutic setting. So if things do go bad, you have somebody to guide you through it because you really don't know what to expect. You might want help.

[Bill Burr]

You know what, Terry? You're a good person. You saw me leading people astray. And look at you. You just said in a very eloquent way, don't do what this idiot just did.

[Terry Gross]

So let me reintroduce you. If you're just joining us, my guest is comic and actor Bill Burr. He's got a new comedy special that's about to start streaming on Hulu. It's called Drop Dead Years. We'll be right back after a short break. This is FRESH air. So I'm tempted to do something and I don't know whether I should do it or not do it. Okay, so here's what I'd like to do. There's a bit that you do and I found myself both laughing and stopping laughing and then figuring out like, I'm not sure which way to take this. And so what I'd like to do is that's amazing.

[Bill Burr]

I can't tell you how happy that makes me feel. Good to know that that's how you felt.

[Terry Gross]

Good. So let's play it and then we can talk about it, if that's okay with you.

[Bill Burr]

Okay.

[Terry Gross]

Okay, great. So this is a part you've just talked about men and all of like a lot of men's flaws. Then you say, you know, you're going to talk about women every time.

[Bill Burr]

I think feminism has kind of like died off, you know. You know, like a band you can't stand and you just, they haven't put out an album in a few years. You're like, oh, good, did they quit? Did they break up? And all of a sudden they come out with some more. You're like, ah, what is it now? I'm just with you. Feminism doesn't bother me. I'm not afraid of it or anything like that, you know, for the simple fact that I know it's going to fail, you know, And I, I take comfort in that. I do. I'm not rooting for it because I know it doesn't like me. Yeah. Do you know why? You know, I think it's not going to survive. Why it's not going to be successful anyways because they still need men's help to make it happen. I don't understand it. I don't understand why women just can't work with each other, but they keep coming to us like you. More men need to care about this issue. Where are the men to stand up and say something? Why do I have to say something? This is your problem.

[Terry Gross]

Okay, so that's my guest, Bill Burr. Here's what I want to talk with you about. I want to talk to you about perspective, because when I listen to that, I think that is really funny. If you're coming from the perspective of. Of course men have to be involved because the whole point of feminism is becoming equal and getting men who perceive women as less than or as incompetent or stupid or, you know, any of the patronizing things or insulting things, misogynist things that men may think men have to change in order for feminism to succeed, in order for women to get the equality.

[Bill Burr]

How come men didn't have to change for them to succeed? They didn't.

[Terry Gross]

Even women were already subservient. Men already controlled everything. It's historically been that way. But let me.

[Bill Burr]

Why is that?

[Terry Gross]

Let me finish my point. Okay, So I think it's really funny if your perspective is like, this is funny because obviously men have to change in order for feminism to succeed. But it's not so funny to me if your perspective is, what do they want from us men? Why don't they just leave? This is their issue. Why don't they just leave us alone? And that, to me, isn't funny because that would mean, like, you don't get it. You don't get that men who still think that women are lesser than or secondary or, you know, not smart enough, not capable enough, not deserving of equality. If you're coming from that perspective, it's not funny because it means you're clueless that you don't get it. But if you do get it, it's really funny because you're coming from the perspective of getting it and mocking the people who don't. So your turn.

[Bill Burr]

All right. Okay. I just thought it was hilarious that when that MeToo thing came out, right, all of these guys all of a sudden were walking around and they had on these male feminist buttons. And it was hysterical to me that women didn't call out the BS of that, because it's like, where was that button before this happened? You had your whole life to wear that button. And you didn't wear it until guys were getting thrown off the bridge of their career. Then all of a sudden I'm a male feminist, female first. And you fell for it. I mean, that's a red flag. Let's just take it out of men and women. No one's gonna care about what you want more than you. So you gotta empower yourself to do this. It's like, where is your responsibility in supporting other women? Or like you hear like, in Hollywood we need more movies with women in them. It's like, well, go write one.

[Terry Gross]

That's what they're doing.

[Bill Burr]

Go write one.

[Terry Gross]

They weren't given the chance to do it before.

[Bill Burr]

That's not true.

[Terry Gross]

The doors were closed.

[Bill Burr]

It's just not true.

[Terry Gross]

It's pretty true.

[Bill Burr]

It's not true. It's not true. Do you think the door was open for a bald red headed ginger to come in at 50 something years old to go? Do you think Hollywood was waiting for that? Do you think they, I just walked out there like, oh, you're a guy, what are your dreams? Send us a list and we're gonna make it happen.

[Terry Gross]

And women have gone through exactly the same thing if they're not beautiful or young enough.

[Bill Burr]

Exactly. So like, okay, so I went through it too in my own way.

[Terry Gross]

But that's the thing. When I was growing up, the only jobs for women were nurses, teachers, cashiers, secretaries. There was very little else you could do.

[Bill Burr]

Prostitution.

[Terry Gross]

Well, okay, sex worker. Yeah, there's very little else you could do. The doors are basically shut.

[Bill Burr]

I don't have a problem with women. You know, you can view me however you want to view me, but I know what I've done in my career as far as like, who I've worked with and what I've been doing. And like at the end of the day, the joke that I'm doing, I'm making a point, I'm also being playful, but I'm also not going to be this person just going like, yes, you are 100% right because you are a woman and you are not flawed at all. And you are not abusive and you are not responsible at all for where you are in life. If you're not where you want to be in life, it's because of men. I, I don't subscribe to that any more than I subscribe to 80s dumb brunts, need to be home making me a sandwich. I'm not that guy either. I'm somewhere in the middle and I like to tease everybody. So if you wanna listen to my act and be like, you know, this part I like, but that part I didn't. I mean, that happens to me every night. So I don't know.

[Terry Gross]

Yeah. So just getting back to that joke one more time. It's the kind of open ended joke that you can see from either perspective. You can see.

[Bill Burr]

I feel like I'm in the Terminator right now. He just keeps coming. That's all he does. He's not gonna stop.

[Terry Gross]

I knew you wouldn't like this, but.

[Bill Burr]

I'm enjoying the hell out of this.

[Terry Gross]

Oh, good luck.

[Bill Burr]

Okay. There's nothing I like better than debating.

[Terry Gross]

Okay, so I tried to establish that you could see that joke from two different perspectives. One of which I found really funny and the other which I found clueless. Do you want to leave it ambiguous like that so that bros in the audience see it one way?

[Bill Burr]

Okay, stop with the bros term. Everybody with their terms now. Bros. That all these guys are bros. Isn't that the feminist word for broads?

[Terry Gross]

Uh, no.

[Bill Burr]

Cause I'm a woman. It doesn't work that way. This is the thing. It's deliberately ambiguous.

[Terry Gross]

Okay.

[Bill Burr]

Okay. Because that's what I am. Because I am everything in that joke. I am enlightened and I am ignorant.

[Terry Gross]

Thank you.

[Bill Burr]

I am clueless and I am that. Don't say thank you like you just won something. No, that's the explanation of. You see I'm defensive. Then you backed me in the corner. Cause you kept coming at me with this. You kept punching me after the bell. You know you're supposed to go back to the stools and you get that overhand write in over the referee.

[Terry Gross]

You said you love debating.

[Bill Burr]

I do, but then I always end up becoming this. This is the guy I'm trying not to be.

[Terry Gross]

No, but it's interesting to me that you see yourself coming from both of those perspectives and that you have both of those perspectives.

[Bill Burr]

I do. I am a man. I absolutely love women. I find you guys fascinating. And at the same time, I find you incredibly frustrating. And I gotta be honest with you, if you watched my earlier standup, I'm like women. That had nothing to do with women. It had to do with the fact that I didn't know how to get on with my life, that I wanted to get married, I wanted to be in love, I wanted to have kids. And I didn't know how to do it. And I didn't understand what my problem was and I didn't know how to fix it, so I blamed what I wanted. So there's also that.

[Terry Gross]

I just want to say, in case it's not clear, I think you're hilarious. There's some jokes where I stand back and I go, hmm, I'm not sure how to take that, but I think you're a great person.

[Bill Burr]

Listen, there's a lot of stuff I've done. I look at, I go, did I say that? You know, you know, it happens.

[Terry Gross]

I love your voice. I love your delivery. I love your spontaneity.

[Bill Burr]

I'm waiting for having said that.

[Terry Gross]

No, no. However.

[Bill Burr]

However.

[Terry Gross]

No, no. The only however is sometimes I just don't know how to take the jokes. And I can interpret it one of two ways.

[Bill Burr]

That's the great thing about comedy. Well, I had a great time talking with you and I had a great time debating with you, and I really like you.

[Terry Gross]

Oh, gosh.

[Bill Burr]

Even though we didn't line up on everything, but I liked that.

[Terry Gross]

Oh, thank you.

[Bill Burr]

I like that we didn't.

[Terry Gross]

I really enjoyed it. Thank you.

[Bill Burr]

All right. Thank you so much. I'll see you.

[Terry Gross]

Bill Burr's new comedy special, Drop Dead Years, starts streaming Friday on Hulu. He's one of the stars of the new Broadway revival of David Mamet's Glengarry Glen Ross. It begins previews tonight and opens March 31st. We recorded our interview last Tuesday. Tomorrow on FRESH AIR, our guest will be New York Times editor David Enrich. He'll talk about his new book, murder the Truth. It chronicles a campaign by billionaires, politicians and corporations to silence journalists and undermine free speech protections. I hope you'll join us to keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews. Follow us on Instagram @NPR. Fresh Air Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our managing producer is Sam Brigger. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Anne Marie Bodonato, Lauren Krenzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Yakundi, Anna Bauman and Joel Wolfram. Our digital media producer is Molly CV Ness. Roberta Shorrock directs the show. Our co host is Tanya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross.