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Tanya Moseley
This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tanya Moseley. We're looking back at some of our favorite interviews of the year today. Pioneering TV journalist Connie Chun. One when Chung appeared on television back in the 70s, it was the first time many Americans had seen an Asian woman reporting the news and setting the national conversation with her interviews with heads of state and controversial figures. For three decades, Chung was a key player in every major news cycle, covering Capitol Hill, the White House, the Pentagon and the State Department. In 1991, she was the first journalist to get a sit down interview with Magic Johnson just a month after he announced his HIV status. Connie Chung has worked for abc, both NBC and msnbc, CNN and cbs, where she got her start and later became the first woman to co anchor the CBS Evening News with Dan Rather and the second woman in the history of television news to anchor an evening newscast. I spoke with Chung in September for her memoir where she gives a behind the scenes look at what it took for her to climb to the top of the male dominated field of TV news. Chung spills the tea on some well known celebrities and politicians who hit on and she doesn't shy away from naming names of people who crossed her and sometimes made her job more difficult than it needed to be. We also talk about one of the more challenging interviews with Donald Trump in 1990.
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Connie Chung
What Donald Trump does, of course, is make a lot of money and make sure everybody knows it. A yacht, a mansion, a bigger mansion, an airline, two casinos, a bigger casino.
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Donald Trump
That is really incredible.
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David Letterman
There's nothing like it.
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Donald Trump
There's nothing like this place.
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Connie Chung
By now his possessions are more familiar to us than what we have hanging in our own closets. His buildings, well, you know which ones they are.
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Donald Trump
I sell very great condominiums in New York. I have the best casinos in the world.
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Connie Chung
They're the best. Maybe if you can try and answer this question without giving me the normal spiel.
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Tanya Moseley
That's Connie Chung interviewing Donald Trump in 1990. I asked her what she remembered most about that interview.
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Connie Chung
I'll set the stage. Otherwise I'm going to get myself in such trouble. Tanya. I was doing this program called Saturday Night with Connie Chung and I was the only correspondent because we had another format prior to that and it really was excoriated. It tanked. So I had to then go out on Stories every week to fill an hour program. I was traveling all over the country and the world and everything. I was pretty darn exhausted. Then the executive producer comes to me and says, we have an interview with Donald Trump. At the time, he had not planned to run for president by any means. He was a mogul. He was actually a very. He was a tabloid king because he was always in the New York tabloids, and that was his. That period of his claim to fame. So I went, I. Are we whining? Oh, boy, did I whine.
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Tanya Moseley
Well, you didn't mince words. I mean, after your interview aired, Trump did what we've seen him do to many reporters over the years, and he dug into you because you dug into him.
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Connie Chung
Well, guilty as charged. I did. And he went on the Joan river show, and at the time, she had a talk show, and he said that I was. He used all those words that he is. Want to use with some female journalists, you know.
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Tanya Moseley
He called you a lightweight.
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Connie Chung
Yeah. Huh. And I can't remember the exact words, but that I was basically stupid and didn't ask good questions and all of that. So I would see him. My husband is a crazy golfer. You know, my husband, Maury Povich, who's been determining the paternity of every child in America. Yes, you are the father. You are not the father. Well, in addition to that, my husband is a very good golfer as well. I would see Donald Trump at celebrity golf tournaments in which my husband was playing, and he ghosted me, essentially. He. It was as if I were invisible. I wasn't there. Maury would say, you know, Connie. And I was just invisible.
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Tanya Moseley
You started in the early 70s, and in many instances, you were the only woman among these guys. In particular, you write about being on the road covering the 1972 presidential campaign. You were traveling essentially with the press corps of all men, and you realized that being funny was a way to disarm or diffuse. But did it ever feel dangerous?
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Connie Chung
No, no, it wasn't dangerous. It was just fraught with sexism. And, I mean, I think they all saw me as this unusual little toy, and I.
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Tanya Moseley
They almost seemed to you like a delight, like almost a novelty.
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Connie Chung
Yes.
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Tanya Moseley
Kind of tinged with fetish behavior. But that was until you started to scoop them.
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Connie Chung
Well, they. They did. They were surprised when I came up with a story that they didn't have. It was. It was a little competition, you know, and I love the competition. So I just developed this sense of humor. And what I did was I tried to get them before they got me And I had this propensity to be much too bawdy. And it was antithetical to what I look like, you know, I look like a lotus blossom. And they were appalled that I had the audacity to use a bad word. But at the same time they found it very comical.
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Tanya Moseley
There's this story that you tell about being a goody two shoes. Is it Timothy Kraus, he wrote in his book the Boys on the Bus, which is about covering the 72 presidential campaign, that he says this about you. Quote, TV correspondents would join the wee hour. Poker games or drinking. Connie Chung, the pretty Chinese CBS correspondent, occupied the room next to mine and she always was back by midnight reciting a final 60 second radio spot into her Sony or absorbing one last press release before getting a good night's sleep. And the next morning, he noted, you would be up and at em with the other reporters, all guys, and they were staving off a hangover. But the thing about it was they would always scoop you, even still you were in your room doing all of that hard work and they were, were at the bar getting to know the sources.
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Connie Chung
You got it? And when I realized that, and I did, because I would call the assignment editor in Washington, the overnight assignment editor, and I'd say, what broke overnight? Or what's on the front page of the New York Times, Washington Post, Boston Globe, Louisiana. Times, whatever, whatever he had access to or whatever was released early enough. And I realized that they were getting stories. And it suddenly dawned on me, they were saucing up the campaign manager and everyone who worked for the candidate and letting them spill the beans. So I said, end of staying in my room, I'm going down to the bar. And I did. I could drink. When I was in college, I learned how to, you know, take a few down and still stay sane. I wasn't driving anywhere. I was just walking back to my room. And therein lies a great way to learn how to be a reporter.
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Tanya Moseley
Right? You had to get in there, you had to do that, play that game.
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Connie Chung
Exactly. The only place I couldn't enter where the men were, obviously was the men's room. And they got stories there. I, you know, I couldn't infiltrate the men's room.
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Tanya Moseley
Your book, as well as this book I read a few months ago, it's a biography about Barbara Walters. It just showcases how even at the height of your career, because you were very well known then, you are out there getting your own stories.
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Connie Chung
You know, Barbara Walters taught me that. I knew that she picked up the Phone herself. She wrote a letter, she faxed, she called, she nudged. She would say, let's have lunch. And I would call it being barbered. And Barbara barbered me. When I was fired from the CBS Evening News, she called me and started trying to get the first interview with me. When I emerged from my bunker. It was just remarkable, you know, Barbara and I had a lot in common. She was clearly the pioneer and paved our way. But she was the breadwinner in her family because her father's nightclubs tanked and she had to take care of her mother and her father, support her mother and her father and her disabled sister. I was the breadwinner in my family as well for my mother and father. I supported them for till the day they died. From about 25 on, I was their parent. We both co anchored with someone who despised us, a man. We were both fired after two years. We both adopted a child. We both married nice Jewish boys. Although I think Barbara married maybe two or three. Yeah, but you know, I really did. I admired Barbara because she paved our way.
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Tanya Moseley
Connie, you've mentioned your husband, Maury Povich. You all have been married for nearly 40 years. You got married late, 38 years old. No matter how much it seems to be common knowledge. Cause even for a time you guys had a show together, there's always somebody in the room that's surprised you two are a couple. And it's surprising, I think, because your Personas are so different, your public Personas. But as you write in this book, you all seem to be the perfect match. When did you realize that?
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Connie Chung
I'm still wondering how come we are.
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Tanya Moseley
The perfect.
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Connie Chung
You know, because we are so different. But the public Personas belie what is really behind our door. And the reason why I say that is because he, although he does this, has been determining the paternity of every child in America and utters these, you know, words, you are the father and you are not the father.
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Tanya Moseley
Do you joke with him about that at home? I just get the feeling, yeah, I tease him and.
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Connie Chung
But also, he says, I'm just a trashy talk show host. So he's a very down to earth, realistic guy. He's. What is. What belies his public Persona is that he is very much a voracious reader. He's a political buff, he's a history buff. He could run circles around these pseudo intellectuals who do interviews with important people. And I always say that to him, why don't you do a serious talk show? And he says. And I said, you're so Smart people don't know how smart you are. And he says, as long as you know that, I'm fine. And I thought, oh, my goodness, what a guy.
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Tanya Moseley
Is it also an indication of two different things that drive you both?
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Connie Chung
Yes. The difference is, I am not serious. And you now know that, Tonya, because you've read my book. And he has to curb my enthusiasm because I'm liable to do something off the wall. It is not he who would do something off the wall. It is I. And he has to talk me out of it because I say, why you would do it? And he'd say, no, you have a reputation to uphold.
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Tanya Moseley
Well, the thing about it is that publicly what you do is that it seems like you're always explaining to people who Maury Povich really is behind. I am not the Father. And I did not realize that you actually had been doing this even before Maury had the Maury Povich show. Back when he was on A Current Affair. There's this legendary skit that you and David Letterman did back in 1989. You were a regular guest on the show and he decided to do a skit outside of the studio with you. Cause you guys chemistry, when you were on the show, the jokes always really landed. And I wanna play a clip from this skit that you all did. What we are going to hear is you and David going to a shoe store to buy shoe trees for Maury Povich for your husband. And David is being really snarky about your relationship. Let's listen.
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David Letterman
Connie, let's check in here. Hi. We need to pick up some special order shoe trees. Hi, how are you?
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Connie Chung
Oh, my God.
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David Letterman
Nice to see you. Special order shoe trees for Connie's husband, Murray. He has problem feet. Extra wide feet.
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Connie Chung
I think they're right over here.
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David Letterman
Oh, those are beauties. Look at those.
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Connie Chung
Connie, that's great.
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David Letterman
What exactly do. What's the purpose of shoe trees? What do they do?
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Donald Trump
Keep the shape of the shoes.
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David Letterman
Well, don't your feet do that? Let me buy the shoe trees.
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Connie Chung
No, really.
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David Letterman
All right, turn off the cameras. Turn off the cameras. See if you. On 60 Minutes, if you can get a guy to do that on camera, say turn off, then you're set for life.
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Connie Chung
Yes, you're right.
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David Letterman
How much is it?
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Connie Chung
David, I can't have you pay for this.
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David Letterman
Stop the whining. Just don't whine, please.
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Connie Chung
Maureen's gonna be very.
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David Letterman
He won't know. How will he know? Oh, he's never. Yeah, like he stays up to see this. He does pretty much Dozes off on his food, doesn't he?
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Connie Chung
I can't believe you found the clip and you used it.
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Tanya Moseley
Well, that was you. That was my guest today, Connie Chung with David Letterman on the show in 1989. Connie, he couldn't even say Maury's name right. I mean, that was part of the bit, right? You're always taking up for your husband.
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Connie Chung
Yes, he refused to call him Maury. He would always call him Morty Murray. I mean, whatever. And I said, he said, do you want to go out for pizza sometime? And I said, sure, can I bring Maury? And he'd say no.
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Tanya Moseley
But, you know, I wanted to play this clip because he's making fun of Maury. And it's funny, but I wondered if this kind of view of your relationship, you being this revered, highly respected journalist, Maury being seen more as a tabloid journalist, did it ever have an impact on your relationship?
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Connie Chung
Oh, no. Maury is very secure in who he is. It's the biggest thing that I admire about my husband. He knows he is this very, very intelligent person. And he has. He's had a storied career as a journalist for many, many years. Then he hit upon the current type of talk show. When he was doing a talk show in Washington D.C. he was interviewing authors and politicians. I mean, every author from Gore Vidal to Tom Wolf to Maya Angelou, and it was a classic old talk show. And he did cooking segments with Julia Child and he did. During Watergate, he was in the thick of it. You know, he covered Kennedy's funeral, JFK's funeral, covered Martin Luther King's assassination. So he's an old fashioned journalist. Then he hits upon the talk show circuit and one of his producers comes up with the idea of the paternity of every child in America suddenly. So he has six and a half million Facebook followers and a million Instagram followers and he' become this a walking meme. And it's just a big kick for him. He can wax poetic about what he actually accomplishes by determining the paternity of children. And fathers resume paying for their children instead of denying their existence. So it's a funny. He doesn't care what critics say and I always care. So we have completely different views.
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Tanya Moseley
His memoir is the one that I want to read next. But you actually say, if it wasn't for Maury, you really wouldn't have the career that you have.
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Connie Chung
No. He talked me off the ledge many times when I came home and I said to him, do you know what so and so said to me? Today. And he would say, don't think about it. Don't take him seriously. Take your work seriously. Don't take yourself seriously. Don't take the critics seriously. Let's have dinner. And I would seriously calm down.
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Tanya Moseley
Our guest today is Connie Chung. We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Tonya Moseley, and this is FRESH air. Hey, it's Tonya Mosley. It's almost the end of the year, and this is the season when we here at NPR come to you as a nonprofit news organization and ask for your support. Maybe you're already an NPR supporter, and if so, thank you so much. But if you've never given to public media before or not in a while, please consider it now, because supporting public radio is a great way to show what matters to you. You want to stay informed about what's going on in your community and around the world. You want to know where to turn for information you can trust and to hear perspectives that challenge your opinions. And believe me, I get it. Sometimes you want to tune out from the news and just hear about the beautiful things in life, like artists, musicians and actors who bring us joy, whose work can also challenge us. NPR gives you that space to experience all of it. The FRESH AIR team is like a cultural machine. We love spending our time following investigative journalists who are covering important issues, reading the latest books, watching the latest movies and documentaries, and listening to music that spans across time to bring you conversations with everyone from Selena Gomez and Bridget Everett to music legends like Jon Bon Jovi and Michael McDonald. Together, we can do even more in 2025. The easiest way to support FRESH AIR and NPR network stations across the country is to sign up for npr. It's a reoccurring donation that gets you special perks for more than 25 NPR podcasts, including sponsor free listening, bonus episodes, behind the scenes content, and even exclusive and discounted items from the NPR Shop and the NPR Wine Club. It only takes a few minutes to sign up, and you can do it right now@plus.NPR.org Here at FRESH AIR, you'll hear exclusive weekly bonus episodes that dig deep into our storied archive of interviews, giving you unprecedented access to all 40 plus years of our show wherever you listen to podcasts, thank you again for being a critical part of our public media community. Join NPRplus@plus.NPR.org this message comes from Schwab.
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Tanya Moseley
I'm Tonya Moseley, and today my guest is award winning journalist Connie Chung. She's written a new memoir about her life and career in television news. She takes us in behind the scenes of her news career, from the showdowns with powerful men to the stories behind some of her career defining reporting. In 1993, Chung became the first woman to co anchor the CBS Evening News. And a few years ago, Chung learned about a phenomenon from the late 70s through the mid-90s. Asian American parents inspired by seeing Chung on TV named their daughters Connie, forming the Connie Generation. You know, Connie, your career, it's not a straight line in that you had to play offense and defense and you had to be strategic to get the big stories in the interviews. And many times you won. That's why you were so successful. You got what you wanted, but it was never a straight line to get there. And one of the things that you really struggled with is being put on the celebrity beat. Yet your news bosses felt like you were the one to do those. Especially in the 90s, you were assigned to cover like the O.J. murder trial and the Nancy Kerrigan and Tonya Harding skating fiasco. These assignments were like an indication of something bigger happening in network television news. There was kind of this shift towards sensationalized journalism and this like information saturation at the same time, where the news is always on, and you were in the thick of that. That was really like your prime. How did you grapple with that at the time, with your news bosses basically pushing you in that direction?
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Connie Chung
Well, the problem was that the men could not be pushed into that direction. At CBS News, Dan Rather, who is my co anchor, wouldn't touch it at 60 minutes. It was all men at the time, and they wouldn't touch it. They wanted nothing to do with O.J. simpson, and frankly, I didn't either. But the management would come to me and say, Barbara Walters is getting X, Diane Sawyer is getting Y and Katie Couric is getting Z. You have to do this for the team. You know, I said, I don't want to. I don't see the value in it. It's tabloid. I don't know. You know, Tanya, I have a lot of regrets, but that was one of the biggest ones of being the good.
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Tanya Moseley
Girl, allowing yourself to be put in that category of entertainment, or being told.
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Connie Chung
What to do, resisting, but never being able to put my foot down and say, I am not doing it. Go find somebody else.
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Tanya Moseley
Was there a way to do that? Do you think? What would have happened, do you think, if you had said that?
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Connie Chung
I don't know. I really don't know. I think they just knew I was. I would acquiesce. I wish I had pushed them and put my foot down to take the step.
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Tanya Moseley
Well, the thing about the interviews that you did, you really did bring yourself to them. You tried to make them a Connie Chung interview. One of the celebrity interviews that you went after yourself was NBA basketball star Johnson, shortly after he announced he was HIV positive. And I want to play a clip of your interview with him. It was for your show Face to face in 1991. Let's listen.
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Connie Chung
You've known for about a month now that you test positive for hiv. How. How are you handling it? I mean, I get the feeling, see you put together Game Face on for me, you know, and that you really have some feelings that are down deep in here that you don't really want to share with me.
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Capital One Ad
Well, first of all, I share, you.
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Connie Chung
Know, I've never shared my life with anybody publicly, you know, because that's just.
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Capital One Ad
Me, you know, at home. Is at home now.
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Connie Chung
What you want to give to the.
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Capital One Ad
Public, that's what you give now with this situation.
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Connie Chung
I've given everything from my heart. Really?
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Capital One Ad
Yeah.
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Connie Chung
I mean, I came out to say I have it to help people.
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Tanya Moseley
That was my guest, Connie Chung, interviewing Magic Johnson in 1991. Just a month after he announced that he was HIV positive. And Connie, I know you. You just mentioned how you really didn't want to do the celebrity interview because who cares if you know about someone's personal life? But this was a story that had such cultural and social significance because of HIV at that time frame. How did you get that exclusive?
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Connie Chung
You're so right, Tanya. The reason why I wanted to get it was because HIV AIDS was at the. It was a front burner story. And when Magic sacrificed himself and his reputation, his career, everything came out. He was such a gem. I used to kind of know Magic because I did the news in Los Angeles, and when he came on live with the sports reporter at the time, he would always say with a big. His big beautiful smile, say hi to Connie. And I would, you know, he's just in. His smile is infectious. And he actually asked me to go have some soul food with him and his very tall friends. And we went to Maurice's Snack and Chat. And it was the most incredible gravy covered fried chicken I had ever had in my life. And I wolfed it down. At that time, I was young and I could eat anything I wanted. And it didn't show up in bad places. Now there's a festival going on below my waist. They said, where the heck did that come from? But I thought to myself, I could get that interview because I know him and I'm kind of his friend. And then when I called some other people in la, they all said, ah, Magic's my friend. I'll be able to get that interview. But I thought, uh, oh, you know.
- [31:12]
Tanya Moseley
But you actually did it.
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Connie Chung
How did you do it? I flew to la, went straight to his agent's office, and I squatted. I actually became a squatter. I sat outside his office. His. His assistant said, you know, he's not going to do. The agent is not going to talk to you and Magic is not going to do the interview with. And I said, but I'm his friend. And she said, yeah, everybody's his friend. So I sat down and I said, I'm not leaving until he leaves to go home. So I squatted, and he had only one door to get out. Finally agreed to. Yeah. And somehow he talked to Magic and Magic said, okay. I was just so happy because it was a big. A big interview. And Magic was too kind.
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Tanya Moseley
Let's take a short break. If you're just joining us, my guest is Connie Chung. She's written a new memoir that chronicles her life growing up with her four older sisters and parents who migrated from China and her career as the first woman and Asian American to anchor a national network news program in the US we'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is FRESH air.
- [32:36]
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- [33:42]
Tanya Moseley
This is FRESH AIR. Today I am talking with trailblazing television journalist Connie Chung. She's written a new memoir about her life and career in television news. Titled A Memoir, the book chronicles her parents harrowing migration from China to the U.S. her first job in television news, breaking major news stories, interviewing luminaries, and how she made history as the first woman to co anchor the CBS Evening News and the first Asian to anchor a news program in the United States. You mentioned being fired from the CBS Evening News, but it was the day that you were named co anchor with Dan Rather. You call it the best day of your professional Life. It was May 14, 1993, and it was a huge deal because Barbara was the only other woman to ever anchor an evening news program. But this relationship that you had with Dan Rather, how would you describe it?
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Connie Chung
On the surface, it was very superficially normalish. I mean, we seemed as if we were both professional and doing our jobs. But it was pretty clear to me that he want me there. I don't blame him totally because he had owned Walter Cronkite's chair for many years and had to move over a few inches to make room for me. I became the first co anchor at cbs and he really, I think they must have held a gun to his head because I can't imagine that he would have done it voluntarily. So there I was. And I do believe that had I been another man, had I been an animal, had I been a plant, he would not have wanted me to share. He Would not have wanted anyone to share that seat with him. It was. It was not his cup of tea.
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Tanya Moseley
Well, there were so many rules back then with male and female anchor pairings. One being that men had the upper hand on who even spoke first.
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Connie Chung
Yes. Mm. Jane Pauley had to endure that when she was co anchoring with men.
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Tanya Moseley
And you found that out when you were filling in for her on the table.
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Connie Chung
Yeah. Could not say good morning and could not say goodbye.
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Tanya Moseley
Brian Gumbel had to say it first.
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Connie Chung
That's right. And she fought it and she acknowledged that she lost. And I didn't know that at the time. I thought, how could she acquiesce to this kind of ridiculous rule? And so I tried and I lost two. So I was, you know, hoping that I could set a new term for my substitution period when I was substituting for her during her pregnancies.
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Tanya Moseley
Do you still have that thing you reference many times in the book? Do you still have that male envy in sight of all of your accomplishments? Yeah. How does that show itself? Like, what is that envy? Just the power that they have.
- [37:17]
Connie Chung
Yes. It's the automatic respect that men get just by virtue of the fact that they're men. I think we are perpetually trying to prove ourselves, and I think we've made great progress. I think women and minorities have made great progress. But Asians suffer this incredible Asian hate these days, which has reverted back to. In a peculiar. I mean, not peculiar, but horrible results. Women have not reached a level of parity. I think we can't sort of quietly sit and see if it's going to happen. We just continue. We need to continue to move forward.
- [38:08]
Tanya Moseley
I know that you talk with a lot of young folks who are television correspondents and reporters and anchors, and you watch the news now. Do you see a difference? Do you see a change in that dynamic? What do you notice when you watch TV news today?
- [38:28]
Connie Chung
Well, I really appreciate the investigative reporting in television news, in alt print, everywhere. Anytime I see an investigative report, I'm impressed. What I don't like, of course, is if I see opinion, and there is. There's a lot of that. I. I would really like the news to swing back to objective, honest, credible, straight, straight news. And I know a lot of people, you know, people I just run into want facts. That's all they want.
- [39:14]
Tanya Moseley
Do you miss it?
- [39:16]
Connie Chung
Only. Only when I see. When I'm watching an interview on television, I want to throw my shoe at it. If somebody isn't asking the question, the next question that I would ask, you know, doesn't do a follow up or I it's very strange. I miss that, the interviews and being able to dig deeper. But I also miss the joy of going after a story that's worthy. And I know it sounds really old fashioned, but it's the if I can change a government wrong or change in attitude regarding social ills or whatever, something like that. I think it's so gratifying. And I know a lot of my friends still feel that way as well. And they get to do it sometimes, but sometimes the ball is rolling over them and they're just lucky to be still in the business. And I'm happy for them because I'm looking in from the outside.
- [40:35]
Tanya Moseley
Connie Chung, thank you so much for this conversation.
- [40:39]
Connie Chung
Tanya. I think you did the best interview that I've done on this that I've ever done. Seriously, you're a hottie. Not only as you I've seen in pictures, but you're a really, really good interviewer, too.
- [40:59]
Tanya Moseley
Well, this was such a pleasure, Connie, thank you.
- [41:02]
Connie Chung
Tonya. You were great. I mean, seriously.
- [41:05]
Tanya Moseley
Connie Chong, I spoke with her in September when her memoir Connie was released. Coming up, jazz historian Kevin Whitehead looks back at the musicians we lost this year. This is FRESH air.
- [41:19]
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- [42:08]
Tanya Moseley
This is FRESH air. Here on the show, we memorialize jazz composer Benny Golson and drummer Roy Haynes. Jazz historian Kevin Whitehead remembers a few more musicians who passed in 2024. For some of them, Kevin says jazz was only part of the music they made, such as the sometimes smoothly romantic rhythm and blues saxophonist David Sanborn.
- [42:54]
Donald Trump
That's alto saxophonist David Sanborn at his best, scalding, eruptive, passionate and phraseologically unpredictable, jazz, blues and gospel fused in his sound. And his ability to play with anybody from the Butterfield Blues Band to David Bowie to Tim Byrne made him a longtime presence and musical catalyst on late night TV as a host, band member or guest in a jazz setting. No one framed him better than arranger Gil Evans with The open ended 12 minute Sanborn concerto. Short visit from 1977. As capacious as jazz is, some talents are too big for just one Fish Field entertainment dynamo Quincy Jones made a splash from the start as a spectacularly talented, fresh and original writer for big band in the 1950s on his version of Along Came Betty by another jazz great who passed this year, Benny Golson. Quincy's smooth writing and well drilled musicians make silky, muted brass. The deaths Quincy Jones ran up running his dream band are why he became a pop producer. But even after Leslie Gore and Michael Jackson, he'd still promote jazz to a wider audience, presenting Duke Ellington as songwriter in a remarkable jazz vocalist studded TV special touting Ella Fitzgerald and Sarah Vaughan to hip hop listeners with Back on the Block and before that tipping his hat to the style of funky electric saxman Eddie Harris with the sitcom theme Sanford and Son. Another crossover artist of sorts who passed this year, alto saxophonist Lou Donaldson was the last survivor of Art Blakey's original 1954 jazz messengers. Back then, all hip young alto players emulated the quicksilver Charlie Parker, Donaldson included. But his own feisty personality peeked through in his sly phrasing Lou Donaldson on Quicksilver, 1954. Late in life, he criticized young musicians for straying from the true jazz path in the 1960s, though with family to support, Donaldson started making populist records long before David Sanborn. Danceable music aimed at party people, not jazz snobs. And that's okay. On his 1969 cover of Johnny Taylor's who's Making Love? Donaldson gets credibly funky. He puts his own stamp on a prevailing style. Once again, baritone saxophonist Claire Daly, who died in October, sang a little also, as if to remind us the jazz horn is an extension of the human voice. The baritone has a larger and more commanding range to explore, but the same capacity for personal expression. Claire Daly got a fat, gritty classic bari sax sound and danced it around light on its feet. You hear it on her jazz calypso version of Hoagie Carmichael's Little Old Lady. Jazz figures who died in 2024 also include Critic, record annotator, archivist and all around advocate for 75 years Dan Morgenstern. Also Michael Kaskuna, producer of much excellent new jazz and the most important producer of reissue and historic jazz recordings of the past 50 years. Also the youngest and last of the three Jazz playing Heath brothers, the fine drummer Albert, nicknamed Tutti, and recently the French Algerian piano virtuoso Marshall Solal. And finally, on December 10th, we lost one more musician. Jazz could barely contain the irrepressible downtown New York brass man Herb Robertson, who played some of the wildest trumpet around, a wizard at using mutes for outlandish effects. But he'd also get deep into the contours of a melody, infusing it with deep feeling to match his friend. Andy Laster's composition devotional sparked that side of Herb Robertson's personality. So let that be our recessional hymn to bring this memorial session to a close.
- [50:37]
Tanya Moseley
Kevin Whitehead is the author of Play the Way youy Feel, the Essential Guide to Jazz Stories on Film, why Jazz and New Dutch Swing, which has just been reissued. On Monday's show, we'll hear Terry's interview with comedian Nikki Glaser from earlier this year. Known for telling scathing jokes at celebrity roasts, Glaser will host the Golden Globes on January 5th. I hope you can join us. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our senior producer today is Sam Brigger. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham, with additional engineering support by Joyce Lieberman, Julian Herzfeld and Al Banks. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Roberta Shorrock, Annmarie Baldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Nakundi and Anna Bauman. Our digital media producer is Molly CB Nesper with Terry Gross. I'm Tonya Moseley.
- [51:51]
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