Summary: Fresh Air – Cynthia Erivo’s Road to 'Wicked’

Host: Tonya Mosley (NPR)
Guest: Cynthia Erivo
Date: November 17, 2025

Main Theme and Episode Purpose

This episode of Fresh Air features an intimate conversation with acclaimed actress, singer, and author Cynthia Erivo. The discussion centers on her portrayal of Elphaba in the new film Wicked for Good, the personal parallels between herself and the iconic character, and her newly released memoir Simply More. The episode explores Erivo’s journey as an artist, challenges she faced in her formative years, her approach to acting, and her perspectives on identity, vulnerability, and self-worth.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Connection to Elphaba and ‘Wicked’

• Erivo discusses the deep, sometimes surprising parallels between herself and Elphaba, the “wicked witch,” particularly around themes of otherness and claiming one’s narrative.

  • “The feelings you see in the movie are very real feelings because they're sort of immediate.” – Cynthia Erivo (02:12)

• A specific scene with Elphaba’s father illuminated the emotional overlap and complexity she shares with the character.

  • "It was that moment that I realized, oh, this relationship is a complicated one. That's when I sort of thought, oh, I recognize that.” (02:59)

2. The Music That Heals and Empowers

• Erivo reveals how Defying Gravity was a refuge during drama school, providing solace from feelings of isolation.
  • Quote/Reading from memoir (04:14):
    “This was the exact piece of music I escaped into when I was in drama school... This song gave me refuge.”

3. Experiences with Exclusion at Drama School

• At the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art, Erivo felt judged and excluded; staff and peers misjudged her ambition and work ethic.

  • "I think they thought I was unfocused and troublesome... A comment about my body—it was too muscular. I needed to stop going to the gym... It was horrifying." (06:55)

• She recounts being asked to be a “ghost singer” backstage for someone else due to their illness, which instilled in her a lifelong protectiveness over her voice.

  • “I'll never give my voice to someone like that again… It just felt, in the moment, really awful.” (08:46)

4. Authenticity & Vulnerability in Performance

• Sharing her real-life vulnerabilities with the Wicked director in auditions was essential for connecting to Elphaba.
  • “In order to really connect with this character... I had to be vulnerable, that I had to share the experience that I felt." (05:05)

5. Filming Two ‘Wicked’ Movies Simultaneously

• Erivo reflects on the unique challenge of shooting Wicked and Wicked for Good at the same time. She used physical cues, including different perfumes/scents for each version of Elphaba, to ground herself in each emotional state.
  • "I always find a scent for each person, but this time I found a scent for each Elphaba.” (12:42)
  • "[For the older Elphaba] it was a scent called Witchy Woo." (14:19)

6. Embodying Characters: Synesthesia and Physicality

• Erivo relates her synesthesia—seeing color in music—to her sense of character, using scents, movement, and even strenuous physical training (singing during swimming/running) to deepen her roles.
  • "If I'm doing something that's strenuous and I can sing it... when I'm standing still, it'll just be there." (16:35)

7. Roots in South London and Family

• Growing up in Stockwell, Erivo’s family, particularly her mother and sister, were musical influences.
  • "Me and my sister would harmonize together... Christmas morning is really, really fun because it starts at like 6am and goes till the middle of the night." (17:32)
• Her powerful singing voice was recognized early, at age 5, and became a means of connection and affirmation.

8. Raw Reflection on Her Father and Her Own Self-Worth

• Erivo reads a poignant poem about her absent father and describes moving from pain toward acceptance and even apathy; her drive for artistic success was once fueled by wanting to prove herself to him, something therapy helped her outgrow.
  • “If the point of doing the things you love... is to make someone care about you... it doesn’t sustain, because the most important love is that of yourself." (26:34)

9. Portraying Black Heroines: Harriet Tubman and Aretha Franklin

• Discusses the process of researching and embodying historical figures with limited direct documentation, especially Harriet Tubman, including the revelations of lesser-known aspects of her life.

  • “She didn’t feel like she had obtained freedom until other people were free.” (31:04)

• Finds Aretha Franklin’s relentless self-reinvention deeply inspiring.

  • "She was trying so hard to fit herself into a lane that wasn't made for her—because the lane was made by her." (33:19)

• On privacy, inspired by Aretha:

  • "What you decide to keep for yourself is okay... the artist's job is to create art, and we should be okay with letting them do just that." (37:16)

10. Shaving Her Head: A Statement of Identity

• The decision to shave her head post-drama school marked a break from conformity and an embrace of self as a transformative vessel for roles.
  • "I wanted them to just see my face... a canvas that can transform, a vessel that what you see is really me." (41:00)
• For Wicked, her scalp (painted green!) became literally part of the character's transformation:
  • "We spray my scalp green, the way my face is green. It's included in my hair." (43:44)

11. Defying Gravity: Becoming Cultural Lexicon

• On her “Defying Gravity” riff taking on a life of its own:
  • "It's lovely to be part of the lexicon of that now." (45:27)
• The experience of having synesthesia with the song:
  • "Blues. Strangely different. Blue. Like iridescent blues." (45:50)

12. Allies and Solidarity in the Industry

• The pact made with co-star Ariana Grande—for mutual support and open communication—demonstrates a new model for female collaboration in entertainment.

  • "If there's something going on or I'm, like, overwhelmed... I have a word that I say, and if there's something she's overwhelmed with, she has a word that she says... We talk. We have real conversations." (46:27)

• Erivo rejects the narrative of female rivalry:

  • “The myth is that it is rare for women to get along, but actually, more often than not, all we have is each other.” (47:23)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On connecting with Elphaba:
  "It was that moment that I realized, oh, this relationship is a complicated one." (02:59)

• On her school experience:
  "There’s one person particular who made a comment about my body... It was horrifying." (06:55)

• On giving her voice away (literally):
  "I will never give my voice to someone like that again." (08:46)

• On finding her character through scent:
  "Elphaba, who was young, wore a very different scent to Elphaba, who was older... It was a scent called Witchy Woo." (14:19)

• Memoir reading about her father:
  “It was the last day I ever spoke with him. I do not know much about my father, but I do know a few things... By some strange stroke of irony... my father can sing.” (23:22)

• On self-worth:
  "Really and truly, the most important love is that of yourself. It has to come from you first." (26:34)

• About Aretha Franklin's privacy:
  "Your life, all of your life, isn't for everyone's consumption. Each person walking through the world, no one knows everything about that person. No one." (37:16)

Key Segment Timestamps

• 00:25–01:51 — Introduction and Erivo’s background
• 02:12–03:36 — Finding parallels between herself and Elphaba
• 04:14 — Reading from her memoir about finding refuge in 'Defying Gravity'
• 06:09–09:44 — Experiences of exclusion and being a background singer at drama school
• 12:42–15:26 — Using scent to anchor character work, synesthesia
• 17:02–20:55 — Growing up in South London and discovering her voice
• 23:22–25:13 — Reading poem about her father, processing absence, and acceptance
• 31:04–34:05 — Playing Harriet Tubman, lesser-known biography, activism
• 33:19 — Aretha Franklin and the art of reinvention
• 41:00–44:56 — Shaving her head, transformation, and embracing her vessel as an artist
• 45:27–45:50 — “Defying Gravity” in the cultural lexicon and experiences with synesthesia
• 46:09–47:23 — Pact with Ariana Grande; supportive women in the industry

Final Notes

This episode weaves together Cynthia Erivo’s artistry and personal odyssey, showing how performance, vulnerability, and identity continually intersect in her life. Erivo’s candor about pain, resilience, and creative process offers both aspiring artists and everyday listeners a powerful account of growth, self-affirmation, and authentic expression.