Fresh Air Podcast Summary: "How Regime Change Happens In America"

Fresh Air explores the unsettling shifts in American politics under former President Donald Trump, delving into the mechanisms of authoritarianism and its ripple effects on both domestic and international landscapes. In the February 19, 2025 episode titled "How Regime Change Happens In America," host Terry Gross engages in a profound conversation with Anne Applebaum, a renowned staff writer for The Atlantic and author of several critically acclaimed books on democracy and authoritarianism.

1. Defining 'Regime Change' in the American Context

Anne Applebaum introduces the term "regime change" to describe the transformation occurring within the United States under Trump's influence. She emphasizes that this phrase aptly captures the systematic efforts to undermine democratic institutions and norms.

Anne Applebaum [02:20]: "What we're witnessing is them carrying out the desire for a new kind of politics in America and a new kind of government."

Applebaum contrasts her previous descriptions of "illiberal democracy" or "authoritarianism" with the more severe implications of "regime change," highlighting the intensified erosion of democratic principles.

2. Turmoil at the Munich Security Conference

The episode delves into the controversial remarks made by U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance and Secretary of State Pete Hegseth at the Munich Security Conference. Their dismissive stance on NATO and European security alarms European leaders, signaling a potential realignment in post-World War II alliances.

J.D. Vance [07:42]: "If you're running in fear of your own voters, there is nothing America can do for you."

Applebaum critiques Vance's speech for diverting critical security discussions to culture wars, undermining the conference's primary focus on European defense against threats like Russia.

3. Shifting Dynamics in US-EU Relations and NATO

Applebaum expresses concern over the United States' apparent disinterest in sustaining and reinforcing NATO, a cornerstone of European security. She warns that diminishing belief in NATO's collective defense could embolden adversaries like Russia.

Anne Applebaum [11:38]: "Once nobody believes anymore in that promise, then even if NATO still exists as an institution... its value as a deterrent does become more limited."

The conversation highlights the psychological and strategic ramifications of the U.S. distancing itself from European allies, potentially leaving Europe vulnerable.

4. American Influence and Social Media's Role in European Elections

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the fear of American social media companies manipulating European elections. Applebaum outlines how the unregulated nature of U.S. campaign financing and the algorithms of social media platforms can disproportionately amplify extremist voices, disadvantaging centrist and pro-EU parties.

Anne Applebaum [18:17]: "The algorithms will promote parties of the extreme right... to the disadvantage of parties that want consensus."

She underscores the challenges European nations face in safeguarding their electoral processes from foreign interference, drawing parallels to issues already observed in the United States.

5. The Hungarian Playbook and Its Influence on American Politics

Anne Applebaum draws a parallel between Hungary's authoritarian drift under Prime Minister Viktor Orban and the strategies employed by the Trump administration. She points out that policies aimed at undermining institutional checks, such as the civil service and judiciary, mirror those used in Hungary to consolidate power.

Anne Applebaum [26:01]: "The Trump administration has absolutely taken actions from the Orban playbook."

Applebaum details specific tactics, including the erosion of civil service norms and the targeting of academic freedoms, suggesting a transatlantic exchange of authoritarian strategies.

6. The Erosion of Civil Service and Institutional Integrity

The conversation highlights the transformation of the U.S. civil service from a merit-based system to one prone to political loyalty. Applebaum contrasts this with Poland's experience, where similar authoritarian attempts were met with public backlash and eventual restoration of democratic governance.

Anne Applebaum [34:52]: "The change in the United States is more dramatic... a civil service that's loyal to a single person or political party."

This shift poses significant risks to governance, as civil servants may prioritize political directives over ethical and effective public service.

7. Threats to Higher Education and Academic Freedom

Applebaum warns that the undermining of the civil service could extend to universities, mirroring Hungary's suppression of academic programs related to diversity and gender studies. She cites recent federal funding cuts and restrictions on academic research as early indicators of this trend.

Anne Applebaum [37:56]: "Orders to alter or remove so-called DEI programs... are already beginning to filter down."

The potential loss of academic autonomy threatens the foundational principles of educational institutions, stifling critical discourse and research.

8. Pardoning Hate Group Leaders and Redefining American Values

Discussing President Trump's pardoning of leaders from extremist groups like the Proud Boys, Applebaum critiques the administration's efforts to reshape American values. By elevating hate groups and marginalizing proponents of diversity, equity, and inclusion, the administration aims to redefine societal norms.

Anne Applebaum [40:07]: "They have decided that the groups who backed January 6th... are now proud members of the Trump coalition."

This strategy not only diminishes the social fabric but also emboldens extremist ideologies within the political mainstream.

9. Assault on the Press and Media Integrity

The episode addresses the Trump administration's relentless attacks on the media, exemplified by the obstruction of the Associated Press for using the term "Gulf of Mexico." Applebaum expresses concern over media owners' conflicts of interest, which could lead to self-censorship and compromised journalistic integrity.

Anne Applebaum [43:31]: "Owners may need to genuflect to the ruling party... to trace new policies."

Such actions create a chilling effect, discouraging media outlets from challenging the administration and undermining the watchdog role of journalism.

10. Hope and Resilience Amid Authoritarian Pressures

Despite the bleak landscape, Applebaum remains optimistic about the resilience of American journalists and activists. She draws inspiration from global counterparts who continue to champion truth and justice in the face of authoritarian regimes.

Anne Applebaum [44:59]: "I'm pretty confident there'll be plenty of Americans who will do that."

This hope underscores the enduring strength of democratic values and the potential for resistance against oppressive forces.

Conclusion

In "How Regime Change Happens In America," Anne Applebaum provides a sobering analysis of the subtle yet profound shifts towards authoritarianism within the United States. By examining the interplay between domestic policies, international relations, and the erosion of institutional safeguards, the episode paints a comprehensive picture of the threats facing democracy today. Applebaum's insights serve as a clarion call for vigilance and resistance against the tides of regime change, emphasizing the vital role of informed and courageous individuals in safeguarding democratic integrity.

Fresh Air continues to shed light on critical issues shaping our world, offering listeners a nuanced understanding of complex political dynamics. Subscribe to Fresh Air Plus for additional content and support NPR's mission to deliver in-depth journalism.