Fresh Air – "Inside the U.S. Reversal on Climate Change Action"

NPR / January 28, 2026
Host: Dave Davies
Guest: David Gelles (New York Times Climate Team, Author of "Dirtbag Billionaire")

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the dramatic reversal of U.S. climate policy under the second Trump administration, examining the consequences domestically and on the world stage. Dave Davies talks with David Gelles—leading voice on climate at the New York Times—about shifts in corporate climate posture, changes in federal regulations and incentives, international implications, and how these changes interface with American business and civil society. The conversation also touches on Gelles’ new book about Yvon Chouinard, founder of Patagonia, and the company’s environmental legacy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Climate of Global Concern: U.S. Political Instability and International Reactions

Timestamp: 01:44–07:09

• Events in Minnesota & Broader International Anxiety:
  Gelles recounts the heavy atmosphere at the World Economic Forum following violence in Minnesota, highlighting eroding confidence among world leaders in American rule of law and stability.

  • “What I heard is that they believe that beyond a more erratic foreign policy, they are seeing the erosion of social norms and frankly, the erosion of a rule of law that they had come to count on from the United States.” (Gelles, 01:59)

• Mark Carney’s ‘Talk of Davos’ Speech:
  Canada’s PM Mark Carney declared the international order is now fractured, with “middle powers” at risk of being subordinated.

  • “There is a deep sense of worry, of concern that you might have for an old friend who's going through a hard time about what is happening in the United States.” (Gelles, 04:30)

• Is this Just a Phase?
  Leaders believe the geopolitical reset is broad and not merely the result of Trump's policies—cite the rise of China and global authoritarianism as deeper factors for change.

2. From Ambition to Retrenchment: Corporate Climate Efforts Falter

Timestamp: 07:09–12:09

• Corporate Commitments at Davos 2020 vs. Today:
  In 2020, finance leaders (e.g., BlackRock’s Larry Fink, then-Bank of England’s Mark Carney) pledged unprecedented financial might toward climate action.

  • “It was there at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, in January of 2020, that many financial leaders started to really say climate change was going to be a defining issue for finance going forward.” (Gelles, 07:27)
  • Four years later, “so much of that work has simply dissipated.” (Gelles, 08:36)

• Causes of Corporate Retreat:

  • Trump administration’s reversal of incentives and regulations
  • Republican-led campaign against ESG (environmental, social, governance) efforts, with state treasurers pulling funds and launching legal challenges
  • Shock to energy markets after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine—a “scrambling” that tempered Europe’s ambitions to end fossil fuel dependency
  • “There's a climate of fear that exists in the C Suite in the boardrooms of corporate America that simply wasn't there several years ago.” (Gelles, 14:11)

3. The New Federal Climate Policy: Rapid Reversals

Timestamp: 15:16–17:20

• Dismantling Biden-era Initiatives:
  Virtually all incentives for renewables, EVs, and efficiency are “just about all gone.”

  • “The White House has moved with extraordinary speed to undo so many of the incentives and regulations.” (Gelles, 15:36)
  • Wind energy projects (notably in the Northeast) have faced outright cancellation, using both regulatory and even ‘national security’ pretexts.

• A Newly Interventionist Republican Administration:

  • Trump’s team is “congenitally averse to all things wind,” decisively and personally interfering in business.
  • “For a party, the Republican Party, that has for so long been associated with free markets and free enterprise. They are now confronting an exceptionally interventionist White House.” (Gelles, 17:42)

4. Policy at Every Level: Regulatory and Legislative Shifts

Timestamp: 21:04–27:50

• Congressional Action:
  GOP-controlled Congress passed the “One Big Beautiful Bill Act,” removing tax credits for solar and EVs.

• National vs. State Standards:
  Trump administration seeks to bar states—especially California—from setting stricter fuel efficiency standards. Automakers had already invested billions in meeting these, now left “frustrated” and at a competitive disadvantage internationally.

  • “These designs and these plants and these supply chains require hundreds of billions of dollars of investment.... And now you see them walking back and essentially discontinuing it.” (Gelles, 22:46)

• EPA Reversal: Mandate Redefined

  • EPA, under Administrator Lee Zeldin, “fundamentally reshaped its mission” to support economic activity over pollution control.
  • Most dramatically, recalculated the value of a human life—for cost-benefit regulatory decisions—“from $11.7 million today ... now going to be zero.” (Gelles, 27:55)

5. The Science Suppression Agenda

Timestamp: 31:15–34:27

• Economic Impacts Ignored:
  Agencies are ordered not to consider climate damage in rulemaking—“even if businesses will tell you... climate change is affecting their supply chains.” (Gelles, 31:38)
• Eliminating Climate Data:
  Climate monitoring stations (e.g., Mauna Loa, Hawaii) defunded; U.S. stops providing critical climate data to international scientists, “the emergence of sort of a dark ages when it comes to the United States role in collaborative international science.” (Gelles, 32:41)

6. U.S. Withdrawal from Global Climate Cooperation

Timestamp: 34:27–36:45

• Paris Agreement Exit:
  Early action: U.S. withdraws, joining Iran, Libya, and Yemen.
  • “What it did was send a signal to industry, to policymakers, to local leaders that a country was on a path ... By pulling out of that agreement, the United States sent a signal to the rest of the world that it simply wasn't even going to try.” (Gelles, 34:55)
• AID Dismantled:
  The U.S. Agency for International Development closed (“put in the wood chipper,” Elon Musk), cutting off resilience and adaptation aid to poor countries.

7. Explaining Extreme Weather in a Warming World

Timestamp: 29:06–31:15

• Common Misconception:
  Gelles explains that while no single storm/cold snap can be directly linked to climate change, the science is clear that warming means more volatility and disruptions to expected weather.
  • “...the Arctic has been getting warmer. And what has happened right now is that a lot of the Arctic air... has escaped ... These are the scrambling of global weather patterns that science has told us for decades now are going to become more common...” (Gelles, 29:27)

8. A Legacy Story: Yvon Chouinard and Patagonia’s Radical Model

Timestamp: 38:05–45:26

• Defining the ‘Dirtbag Billionaire’:
  Chouinard, a legendary climber and reluctant capitalist, created Patagonia to reflect values over profit.
  • “He was upset not because of the word dirtbag, he was upset because of the word billionaire, because he never wanted to be a billionaire.” (Gelles, 38:33)
• Imperfections and Contradictions:
  Chouinard never shared profits or equity with employees, but his tight control enabled him to later give away the company for conservation.
  • “It was only by controlling that equity so carefully that Chouinard was able to do this extraordinary thing ... facilitate the donation of all Patagonia profits to environmental charities.” (Gelles, 42:45)
• A Model for “Compound Interest of Values”:
  The book closes on a hopeful note for what aligned values and business acumen can accomplish for conservation and society.

Notable Quotes

• “There is a climate of fear that exists in the C Suite in the boardrooms of corporate America that simply wasn't there several years ago.” — David Gelles [14:11]
• “The White House has moved with extraordinary speed to undo so many of the incentives and regulations that were making that transition happen.” — David Gelles [15:36]
• “They actually recalculated the math by which they attribute value to a human life, and they determined that the value of a human life was zero.” — David Gelles [27:55]
• On Paris Agreement withdrawal: “...it made it much harder for other countries to galvanize their own coalition of policymakers and business leaders to do the same thing.” — David Gelles [35:20]
• On Chouinard: “He was upset not because of the word dirtbag, he was upset because of the word billionaire, because he never wanted to be a billionaire.” — David Gelles [38:33]

Recurring Themes & Tone

The conversation is candid, sober, and at times mournful about the scale and speed of U.S. climate policy reversal. Gelles and Davies keep the tone accessible, blending industry insight with personal anecdotes. Yet, in the final section on Patagonia and Yvon Chouinard, the tone turns a bit more hopeful—suggesting that, if nothing else, there remains the possibility of individual and corporate leadership for environmental good, even as political resolve wanes.

Timestamps – Key Segments

• International reaction to U.S. instability: 01:44–07:09
• Corporate climate commitments falter: 07:09–12:09
• Trump’s dismantling of climate incentives: 15:16–17:20
• Interventionist Republican administration: 17:42–20:00
• Federal and state policy shifts: 21:04–27:50
• Weather and climate science: 29:06–31:15
• Suppression of climate data: 31:15–34:27
• Paris Agreement withdrawal: 34:27–36:45
• Yvon Chouinard and Patagonia: 38:05–45:26

Conclusion

Essential listening for anyone seeking to understand the current climate policy battleground in America—from Washington to Davos boardrooms, from scrapped wind farms to abandoned data labs. Gelles offers a clear-sighted, sobering analysis of the “broad, coordinated” governmental withdrawal from climate action and its ripple through business and global diplomacy, but concludes with a human example of long-term, values-driven leadership.