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- [00:00]
Ben Mankiewicz
This message comes from Talking Pictures, a podcast from TCM and MAX about movies and memories hosted by Ben Mankiewicz. This season's guests include Bill Murray, Margot Robbie, Carol Burnett and more. Listen to Talking Pictures wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:18]
Tanya Mosley
This is FRESH air. I'm Tanya Mosley. Comic and actor Ginny Slate's recent comedy special Seasoned Professional, centers on her experiences of getting married, pregnant and the pain and joys of giving birth. Her new book of essays, Life form, covers some of the same ground, but critic Thomas Floyd of the Washington Post writes of the book that Slate wields dream, logic and other devices to unpack the same experience in surrealist fashion. In her earlier Netflix comedy special, Stage Fright, slate describes growing up in a house her family believed was haunted. Ginny Slate is also a prolific voice actor. She co wrote and starred in the Oscar nominated animated film Marcel the Shell With Shoes on, adapted from the web series that she co created. She's also done voice work for animated movies and TV shows like Bob's Burgers, Big Mouth, the Lego Batman Movie, the Secret Life of Pets and Zootopia. She played a Laundromat customer in Everything Everywhere all at Once. And even though she was on just a few episodes of Parks and Recreation, many people know her for her role as Mona Lisa Saperstein. Terry Gross spoke with Jenny Slate back in March. Let's start with a clip of her recent comedy special season Professional. Here she's talking about giving birth to her daughter.
- [01:38]
Jenny Slate
I had a baby. I'm not trying to skirt the issue or like deny it. Like I did it, I did it. She's there. But like, it does still feel like I'm, like it wasn't me. Like I did it. Like I, it's hard to wrap my mind around it. And like I was pregnant for a long time and I understood that I was. But like even on the way to the hospital when my body was like really hurting and stuff was starting to leak out, I was just like, kind of feels like someone's gonna sub in here. Like, it's just such an extreme experience that I just, I just was like, I don't know, it just doesn't feel like something I would do, you know? Like, would I knock on someone's door after four dates at 2am and be like, I just need to tell you I'm in love with you. Like, yeah, extreme stuff. I've done it. But like this, I was like, I don't know, it just doesn't seem like what she would do. And like anytime something's been hard or I haven't wanted to do it. Like, I've always just been able to quit or be fired. It's just so. It just felt like I just don't feel like this was meant to be sent. Like, I wanted to have the baby, but I was like, did you mean for me to do this, though? Like.
- [03:04]
Terry Gross
Jenny Slate, welcome back to FRESH air. That clip is so funny. Thank you. So I'm wondering, you know, I said that in your 20s, you felt like an imposter adult. Now that you're a mother, do you feel like a genuine, actual, real adult?
- [03:19]
Jenny Slate
Well, I guess so. But I think I've also started to understand that that definition is, like, really rather subjective or it doesn't mean one thing. But, you know, do I feel capable? Do I feel like I'm supposed to be here doing what I'm doing? Yeah, I do. But I still have the same personality that I've always had. And that's ra. That's kind of a stunner, I guess.
- [03:46]
Terry Gross
Who did you expect to be after you became a mother?
- [03:49]
Jenny Slate
It's so strange. But it's like I do say to my husband sometimes, like, when is Ida our daughter? Is she gonna have a moment where she's like, oh, it's. I'm calling her mom. But, like, this is Jenny. You know, it's just Jenny. It's like, I think I thought maybe some. I mean, I think the good thing is that my cheaper vanities have kind of fried off in the exhaustion. And. And also the thing like, seeing, you know, connecting with things that are really, really meaningful in parenting.
- [04:20]
Terry Gross
And.
- [04:22]
Jenny Slate
But I think I just thought maybe I would be calmer or be given info that I definitely have not been given. I have to keep finding it.
- [04:33]
Terry Gross
You know, you say in your special that, you know, people think my feelings are too much and no one wants to deal with them. What kind of feelings do you think are perceived as too much?
- [04:46]
Jenny Slate
Being very sensitive. Let's see. Yeah, it's hard to think about it now, but I think because when I say it out loud, there's a part of me that's like, no, you're good. You know, but the fact is that it's. Yeah. Sensitivity, insecurity. But I think the main one is maybe not a feeling but a behavior. And it's the, like, constantly checking to see if the other person how they're perceiving a situation or like, what does your face mean? Why are you making that face? It seems today that you have like a micro, a tiny micro bad mood. What's it about? What's gonna happen? Why is it there? Is it gonna lead to something worse? Is there something you're not sharing? Why aren't you sharing it? Is it because you're afraid that I can't take it? Is it because you think I'm not a strong person? Do you see secretly not, like, being around me? Am I stressful? You know, and then that's very stressful.
- [05:42]
Terry Gross
Yes, yes, yes, yes. Is that just all happening in your head, or you're actually asking these questions to the other person?
- [05:48]
Jenny Slate
There's very little that happens in my head that's not going directly into my husband's face. And. But I also think that I've learned to be respectful about that. And, you know, there are some things that are harder for me to tolerate. Like, I see one flash of a thing, and I'm like, what is that? You need to talk about it with me right now. But I will also say that I think that that's one of the things that my husband likes the best about me, because I really. I deeply respect him, but I also want to know him. And sometimes I don't feel that it benefits our relationship to let something pass for a certain amount of time without discussing it. But, you know, I bet sometimes he wishes that I could be a little more, quote, unquote, chill, you know, do.
- [06:51]
Terry Gross
We have to talk about it now?
- [06:54]
Jenny Slate
Like, right when he's falling asleep, you know, does he need that? I actually know that that's like kind of a no. A don't do it zone, you know?
- [07:03]
Terry Gross
Yeah. Yeah. So obviously there's a very kind of sensitive, reflective part of you, but when you're on stage, you turn that into a very almost loud kind of comedy. You know, you're laughing, you're sometimes screaming.
- [07:19]
Jenny Slate
Yeah.
- [07:20]
Terry Gross
So how do you turn these kind of vulnerable, sensitive things into the kind of comedy you do on stage?
- [07:28]
Jenny Slate
I think they're already that the way that I would relay this experience, like, if you asked me to tell you what it is right now, it would look the way it looks when I'm doing standup. There would be screaming. There would be a doorway into my imagination where I'm, like, imagining what would have even had to happen in the other person's head in order for them to interact with me in this way. And that is my experience. It is like, kind of a. I feel like I'm having sort of like an emotional multimedia experience all the time. I'm not one of these people that's, like, going through her life and Being like, oop, that's material. Ooh, you know, like, I'm gonna do something interesting, so maybe it will be material. I'm just, I'm just going through and living my normal life, but I don't feel that I have to do anything to turn it into comedy. For example, the first clip that you played about, you know, whether or not I've done extreme things, it's like, usually it's behavioral, relational stuff that I've done.
- [08:30]
Terry Gross
So it's knocking on someone's door at 4 in the morning to say after four dates to say, I love you. That was the extreme thing that you improvised.
- [08:37]
Jenny Slate
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [08:39]
Terry Gross
So when you first realized that you were sensitive and also sensitive in the kind of way where you're always like reading somebody else and trying to adjust for that, did you see that kind of sensitivity as a strength or a vulnerability, something you wanted to change?
- [08:56]
Jenny Slate
I think it was unconscious at first. It was just like something that I was doing and I didn't notice it. And that's really hard because there were returns on my perceptions. And, you know, it was like they were never flattering. Just like as a kid it was like, you're doing something wrong, they don't like it. You know, it was just like a lot of criticism that I didn't understand was like starting from within in a way that I was approaching general relational dynamics. Like a lot of people don't do that or. And I probably could have had a different experience. But then I think that when I started doing stand up and realized and that was like, I started doing standup in my early mid-20s, like maybe 23, 24. And I realized, like, oh, a lot of what I want to talk about is how I feel. And I started to be more aware of it. And I also started going to therapy. And I think I felt ashamed of how much it was so self focused. Like, you know, what does this person think about me? I just felt like, why am I like this? Like, this is such a gross way to be.
- [10:07]
Terry Gross
You know, I can see how that kind of constantly reading another person's expressions or reading between the lines of what they're saying could be a real asset as a comic. Because as a comic, or at least the kind of comic you are, you're reflecting out loud about your inner life. So what can be complicated in the moment can really pay off, I think, as a comic.
- [10:33]
Jenny Slate
Oh, I think so too. I also think that, like, it helps me to separate my real self from what I'm seeing in someone else. And then internalizing. One thing I've noticed about myself is that when I am upset with something that someone else is doing, I have often, until very recently, tried to look inside of myself to figure out where the source of their bad behavior comes from in me. Like, what did I do to make this person, on the date or boss that I have, what did I do to make them be like this? And then in getting on stage and telling the story and needing it to be dynamic and that, like, other characters have to exist besides you. It allows you to be like, oh, I actually didn't do that. The other person, they're weird and they're weird. They did this weird thing. But then I'm also weird because my response was absolutely bizarre. And then you have, like, comedy. Like, look at these weirdos doing weird things. And, you know, with other people now it's become more of, like, how do I turn this into empathy? Like, if I am interested in this person, if I see myself starting to focus on them, make it about them, ask questions, don't make weird assumptions and stow them inside of myself and suffer by that.
- [12:04]
Terry Gross
That's a really interesting point to make it more about them. Like, are you okay? How are you feeling? As opposed to what's wrong with me? When you got into comedy, how old were you and what was your very early material like?
- [12:21]
Jenny Slate
I was in the improv group at Columbia. And that, to me, actually feels like the start of it, even though it was, you know, like a school activity. But that is really when I started to form as a. As a comedian. Then I think when I was 23, was the first time that I started doing standup. And I believe the very first show that I did was about, like, I was talking about working in retail and how much I disliked it, but I can't really remember what it was. But I do remember getting off stage and being like, but that was a weird fit. Like, why is it funny when I say things at dinner parties? But it's not. But I'm not talking about that on stage. And very quickly I was like, oh, it's. That's what I'm supposed to do. I'm just supposed to do, you know, what I would do on a date or hanging out with a fun friend, a new friend. And I want them to know what my life has been. I already do this. I already try to make people laugh in order to, like, engender a bond or a fondness. And so I just started going on stage and talking about my parents and my childhood. I Think. One of the main stories that I told over and over again, because I am fascinated by it, was how they. How they, like, got in a fight with a contractor who was working on our house, and there was, like, a hole in our roof because he was like, forget it. And he left. And how the bats. Like, we had just so many bats in our house. Cause we had, like, an open roof for a while.
- [14:04]
Terry Gross
Oh, wow.
- [14:05]
Jenny Slate
And, like, it really. It still makes me laugh. I won't talk about anything on stage if it's, like, a dead subject for me. Like, I think of standup as. At least for me. You know, everybody does it differently, but it's like. It's like a nugget of a story that I have. And the more I tell it, it starts to, like, get brighter and brighter, and then suddenly it reaches a peak, and you can tell that you can feel the light, like, starting to go out. And sometimes something will. I'll be like, ugh, this is just a rock now. It's nothing. I don't want to talk about it anymore. It's not funny to me. I'm done. But then, like, 12 years will go by, and suddenly I'll be like, oh, yeah. Remember that story about that girl that spit on my face at synagogue at Yom Kippur, and I couldn't yell at her because it was the Day of Atonement? I'm like, that's ready to come back right now for me. I mean, like, I'm like, that's next. Especially now that I have a daughter.
- [15:03]
Terry Gross
I'm still thinking about all the bats and wondering, did you think a lot about, like, early vampire films? Because that's what I associate bats with. But also, bats are famous for all the dung in bat caves. Oh, yeah.
- [15:16]
Jenny Slate
Oh, yeah.
- [15:17]
Terry Gross
So did you end up with, like, dung on your bed or on the kitchen table?
- [15:21]
Jenny Slate
No. What happened was. So, first of all, yes, vampires, for sure. I was so afraid of vampires as a little girl and had a. Had a recurring dream of, like, that Dracula was, like, trying to fool me into allowing him into my room so that he could, like, kill me, you know? And I had this, like, recurring dream where I would. I would see a frog at the end of the bed, and I'd be so pumped that there was a frog. Like, this is my personality. But I was so excited about this, like, big, green frog. And I was just like, yes, this is so cool. I'm gonna catch that frog. And then I would go towards it, and he would be like, whoa. And it would be Dracula in, like, a tuxedo. I'd be like, oh, no, I'm dead. And I'd wake up in a sweat. And so I got really, really frightened. And I slept with my head under the covers, which became this, like, huge thing for my parents that they were like, you're gonna suffocate. You're gonna suffocate. And I just didn't care. Like, I just. They told me, this is, like, really unsafe, but. And they had my grandfather, who was like, you know, the guy. Like, I would listen to anything he said, and he was like, you gotta suffocate. And I was like, yep, got it. But I still did it. And then my dad, he would, like, really come out in the middle of the night in his nighttime apparel, which at the time was a very, very long night shirt that he worked at the time at the computer company called Wang, which was, like, before IBM. Like, it was, like, one of the first computer companies, and it was called Wang. And he had this, like, shirt that said Wang on it. And he would run down the hallway with an old tennis racket and swat the bats against the hallway. And we had, like, bat blood on our. On our wallpaper. I remember just being like, he got one. You know, Like, I'm just like, instead.
- [17:17]
Terry Gross
Of a mosquito, it was a bat.
- [17:19]
Jenny Slate
Yeah. Just such a bummer. Like, just such an intense way to live and be. And I thought it was really funny. I talked about it on stage for so long because I was fascinated by it. Like, wow. I thought this was normal for so long that I didn't even think about it. And now I realize that this was actually very specific.
- [17:40]
Terry Gross
Now I'm thinking also about growing up in a house that your family, I mean, including your parents, especially your father, believed was haunted.
- [17:49]
Jenny Slate
Yeah.
- [17:50]
Terry Gross
So tell us about that. You talk about that in your first comedy special.
- [17:55]
Jenny Slate
Yeah, I believe it was haunted, too. You know, take it or leave it. Like, everyone has their own opinions about the spirit world and apparitions, but, yeah, my dad had. He had discovered a packet of love letters that were written to one of the previous owners of the house, but they weren't from her husband. They were from some sort of a captain of a ship. And when my parents first moved in, my dad. My mom woke up smelling pipe smoke, and my dad smoked a pipe at the time, and she called out to him to come to bed and then rolled over and realized that he was asleep. And so she woke him up, and she was like, you left your pipe burning. You're gonna burn down the house. And so he went out into the hallway and saw on the stairs, says he sort of saw it but didn't see it. But he saw it but he didn't see it. A man in sort of like a heavy like mariner's seaman's jacket walking up the stairs. And there was a bunch of other stuff that happened. And I'm the only one that never saw anything actually, which in itself is scary to me. Cause I feel like there's like a backlog. It's all gonna come at once.
- [19:11]
Terry Gross
So between the bats and your parents thinking you lived in a haunted house, that sounds like a horror film.
- [19:18]
Jenny Slate
Yeah, it does, doesn't it? Produced a comedian. Yeah. I was scared of our house growing up. Like I was sad, certainly sad when my parents moved out. But it was a very beautiful house.
- [19:34]
Terry Gross
A lot of parents would say, you know, it was just coincidence or dad just woke up and he was still like half dreaming. So don't worry. Cause there's no such thing as a haunted house. But that's apparently not what your parents said.
- [19:47]
Jenny Slate
No, I know they did not. I mean, I think we were all a bit proud of it too. You know, it's mystical and I think it was sort of a point of it was kind of like a treasure but like a terrible one to have. And you know, I don't remember ever thinking that my parents would lie to me, you know, like even if it might be frightening or hurtful. And I think they're very thoughtful people. But the other thing is like they might not have known how scared I was.
- [20:21]
Tanya Mosley
Terry Gross speaking with Ginny Slate in March. The comic and actor has a new book of essays that cover the same ground as her comedy special, Seasoned Professional. The new book is titled Lifeform. We'll hear more after a break. And Justin Chang reviews the new film Juror Number 2, directed by Clint Eastwood. I'm Tanya Moseley and this is FRESH air.
- [20:43]
Ben Mankiewicz
This message comes from Capital One, offering commercial solutions you can bank on. Now more than ever, your business faces unique challenges and opportunities. That's why Capital One offers a comprehensive suite of financial services, all tailored to your short and long term goals. Backed by the strength and stability of a top 10 commercial bank, their dedicated experts work with you to build lasting success. Explore the possibilities at Capital One, a member fdic. This message comes from Carvana. With Carvana Value Tracker, you can track your car's value anytime, anywhere. Carvana will even let you know when your car's value changes with updated emails. However you value your car, know its worth with Carvana Value Tracker. This is Ira Glass of this American Life.
- [21:34]
Jenny Slate
Each week on our show, we choose a theme, tell different stories on that theme.
- [21:39]
Ben Mankiewicz
All right, I'm just going to stop right there. You're listening to an NPR podcast.
- [21:42]
Jenny Slate
Chances are you know our show.
- [21:44]
Ben Mankiewicz
So instead I'm going to tell you.
- [21:47]
Jenny Slate
We'Ve just been on a run of.
- [21:48]
Ben Mankiewicz
Really good shows lately, some big, epic, emotional stories and some weird, funny stuff, too.
- [21:54]
Jenny Slate
Download us this American Life. Joe Biden's on his way out. Donald Trump's on his way back. Want to know what's happening as the presidential transition is underway? The NPR Politics Podcast has you covered with the latest news and analysis. Listen to the NPR Politics Podcast.
- [22:11]
Tanya Mosley
This is FRESH air. Let's return to Terry's interview with comic and actor Ginny Slate in March. Her comedy special, Seasoned Professional and A Book of Essays is about getting pregnant, giving birth and becoming a mother. Slate also co, created, co wrote and starred in the Oscar nominated animated film Marcel the Shell with Shoes On. She's also done a lot of voice work for animated TV shows and mov, including Bob's Burgers, Big Mouth and the Lego Movie, as well as the Secret Life of Pets and Zootopia.
- [22:43]
Terry Gross
I want to ask you about Marcel the Shell with Shoes on, which started as an animated web series that you created with your then were you still married when you created it or was he your boyfriend then? I'm trying to get the sequence right.
- [22:57]
Jenny Slate
Oh, yeah, we were just yeah. We were boyfriend and girlfriend when we made the first Marcel the Shell short film. Mm.
- [23:02]
Terry Gross
And remind me of his name, Dean Fleischer Camp. So you and Dean started the series as Boyfriend, girlfriend, and then you were married and then you divorced and continued the series together, which is another story. I should say that the film version, it started as a web series and then the film adaptation, which you also did with Dean, was Oscar nominated for best Animated Feature. How did you come up with the idea of having a shell as the leading character in the story?
- [23:34]
Jenny Slate
Well, it started with me doing the voice. I was like just as a goof doing this voice. I was like doing a weird voice.
- [23:43]
Terry Gross
While we were can you do it for us?
- [23:44]
Jenny Slate
Yeah, I can do it right now. This is what it sounds like. Yeah.
- [23:50]
Terry Gross
Okay.
- [23:52]
Jenny Slate
As doing it while we were at a wedding. And Dean had he said he would make a video for a friend's comedy show, but he hadn't done it. And he was like, can I interview that voice? Basically, like we didn't have the character yet and so we got him from the wedding, he interviewed me more, I said some more stuff. He had enough audio that it was like, oh, we're dealing with someone who's really small, it seems. And then he went to the local arts, like the craft store and the toy store in Brooklyn where we lived. And he bought like a kind of like a knockoff of a Polly Pocket. It wasn't a Polly Pocket. It was sort of like a. Just a brand X1. And he did a bunch of different character designs. And finally he took some like molding, you know, like, what would you call it, like Plasticine or like molding clay, and put it in the shell hole and stuck the eye in there and glued the shoes on. And I came back to our apartment and he was like, I think this is the guy. And I was like, oh yeah, that's the guy for sure. And so just kind of both of us feeling our way. But he is 100% responsible for the character design. And I just think it's so. I just think Marcel looks perfect. I think he's a perfect looking creature.
- [25:14]
Terry Gross
When you were creating Marcel's voice, I think you said it was a voice you'd used before.
- [25:19]
Jenny Slate
I think I had tried to use it one time when I was on snl, but I vocally could not figure out how to hold onto it. And I had lost it. I couldn't find it. I couldn't do it literally. And it was like great, like another failure here. And I mean, looking back on it, I'm really glad that I didn't spend that in that context. Just cause it led to so much more creative control for me to do it just outside of that community. But yeah, I suddenly just came back and I held on and I was able to click into it. And the more I do it, the more I can find it right away.
- [25:59]
Terry Gross
Can you do it a little bit more so we can hear it?
- [26:01]
Jenny Slate
Yeah, I mean, you could probably just like, I can do it like whenever I want to, but probably at the end of a day of like recording it, I get like a little. I get tired. Like my voice feels tired, but it doesn't like hurt to do it or anything. But even doing it, it's almost like if a person were to do like repeated movements with their body, they get into like a more like clarified mental state. That's like kind of how I feel about it as well.
- [26:31]
Terry Gross
It's such an earnest voice. I've heard you say that you talk to your daughter, your three year old daughter sometimes in Marcel's voice. How did you start Doing that.
- [26:42]
Jenny Slate
I talk in Marcel's voice sometimes without realizing it. A lot of times there's a running commentary, especially if we're in traffic or we're in a line. It's really fun in a car with just my family to be like, oh, this is taking forever. It's just how to get into it. And she. The first time she heard it, like, her, you know, she was like, what is that? What is that? And she thinks he lives inside of me, but that's not disturbing to her. She also knows what he looks like, but she never asks to see him. She just wants to talk to him.
- [27:17]
Terry Gross
What do you tell her in Marcel's voice that's different from what you tell her in your voice?
- [27:23]
Jenny Slate
Marcel gets more info from her. So actually, as Marcel, I just ask her questions, you know, like, why didn't you like that sandwich? What was wrong with it? What happened at school today? Like, she'll give Marcel a bigger answer, which is really nice. And then she likes singing with Marcel.
- [27:44]
Terry Gross
You want to sing in Marcel's voice and tell us how you do that?
- [27:47]
Jenny Slate
Yeah. It's like, okay. This is one of the songs that Ida and I sing together. There's a bright golden haze on the meadow There's a bright golden haze on the meadow the corn is as high as an elephant's eye and it looks like it's climbing straight up to the sky.
- [28:13]
Terry Gross
A song from Oklahoma.
- [28:15]
Jenny Slate
I love that song.
- [28:16]
Terry Gross
Oh, what a beautiful Morning.
- [28:17]
Jenny Slate
It's the best.
- [28:20]
Terry Gross
Yeah. Okay. That's so great. Is it hard to maintain the voice while you're singing?
- [28:26]
Jenny Slate
I think it's easier to sing in Marcel's voice than it is to speak in Marcel's voice.
- [28:31]
Terry Gross
Why is that?
- [28:32]
Jenny Slate
I'm not sure. I really actually don't know. I do a lot of voice work, but I'm not in any way a trained performer. I've not been to, like, an acting conservatory or singing classes or, you know, nothing. So I'm just kind of. I'm just working with whatever I have now.
- [28:54]
Terry Gross
You do voices for other animated series. You've done voice for Bob's Burgers and Big Mouth Zootopia, other animated films. So do you want to do the Bob's Burgers voice for us and tell us about creating it?
- [29:11]
Jenny Slate
Well, in Bob's Burgers, I kind of just talk like this. I play a character named Tammy. She's not nice. She's really selfish. She wants everyone to look at her. Right now, it's just kind of like me doing a mean. My version of a mean girl voice. And they wrote that character and then asked me to play it, which I love. And then I'm also on another show on Fox called the Great north, which is so funny, written by the and created by the Molyneux sisters, who they wrote on Bob's Burgers as well. And I play a teenager named Judy. And, like, it's always a version of my voice, but with Judy, it's like I just kind of like, lighten it up a little bit. And I just sort of like, just like, don't enunciate as much and like, I just like, kind of think about things and, yeah, like, you know, I just like, kind of talk about this and it's sort of my voice, but I just like, just a little bit sort of more relaxed, pulled back.
- [30:09]
Terry Gross
Well, we have to take another break here, so let me reintroduce you. If you're just joining us, my guest is comic and actor Jenny Slate. Her new comedy special, Seasoned Professional, is streaming on Amazon. We'll be right back. This is FRESH AIR. Okay, so does this sound like you you love NPR's podcasts.
- [30:27]
Jenny Slate
You wish you could get more of.
- [30:28]
Terry Gross
All your favorite shows, and you want.
- [30:30]
Jenny Slate
To support NPR's mission to create a more informed public. If all that sounds appealing, then it.
- [30:37]
Tanya Mosley
Is time to sign up for the NPR bundle. Learn more at plus.NPR.org if you listen on the regular to the Fresh AIR podcast, then I know you'll love some of the other NPR podcasts, too. Here's why NPR is worth your time and money. You get perks like sponsor free listening, bonus episodes, early access, shop discounts and more for over 20 different NPR podcasts like this one. Support what you love and stop hearing promos like this1@plus.NPR.org support for this podcast.
- [31:15]
Terry Gross
Comes from the Neubauer Family foundation, supporting WHYY's fresh air and its commitment to sharing ideas and encouraging meaningful conversation. This is FRESH air. Let's get back to my interview with comic and actor Jenny Slate. Her new comedy special, Seasoned Professional, is about getting pregnant, giving birth and becoming a mother. And it's about a lot of other subjects along the way. How did you know that you could do voices?
- [31:42]
Jenny Slate
Oh, man. I mean, forever it's been my delight to do voices. And I've just always thought that voices are the funniest thing. Like, as a kid, I thought Robin Williams as the Genie was just it was like drugs for me. Like, I just thought that's the best. I I loved Saturday Night Live. I loved when people spoke in voices that Weren't theirs. I just thought that that was one of the funniest, most startling, eye catching things that a performer could do. And I've just always loved it and always tried to do as many voices as I can, but I'm really bad at, like, accents from other countries. I can't do any real, like, real accents. Like, I can't do any, I don't think, at all.
- [32:30]
Terry Gross
Were there other animated characters whose voices you loved growing up?
- [32:34]
Jenny Slate
Oh, yeah. I mean, to the, like, you know, the trickly. Just sickening, like, the trickly sweet voices of the Chipmunks were. You know, I just, like, loved how that sounded and would, like, use the record player to speed things up so that I could hear that tone. But I guess. I guess my favorite voice actually on TV was Pee Wee.
- [33:00]
Terry Gross
Oh, Pee Wee was great.
- [33:01]
Jenny Slate
Yeah.
- [33:02]
Terry Gross
Yeah, yeah.
- [33:04]
Jenny Slate
Mm. He really screamed. He really yelled at people.
- [33:08]
Terry Gross
Right.
- [33:08]
Jenny Slate
You know, which I. And I always thought Pee Wee was. I mean, Pee Wee has some attitude as the character, but I guess that got deep in me because I love to scream on stage. You do.
- [33:20]
Terry Gross
And I was gonna bring that up. Like, you have so many different screams.
- [33:24]
Jenny Slate
Yeah.
- [33:25]
Terry Gross
And sometimes you'll do several different screams consecutively.
- [33:28]
Jenny Slate
Yeah.
- [33:29]
Terry Gross
So I'm gonna ask you, if you don't mind and if you don't think it'll blow out your voice, to back up from the mic and do some screams for us. How about before each scream, tell us what you're thinking of that this scream represents, like, what context you'd use that scream in.
- [33:46]
Jenny Slate
Right. Okay. So I think, like, if I'm, like, so startled by something that I realize is happening and I can't stop it, the scream would kind of be like. Like that. Like you're going on, like, a big ride. But, like, you know, for example, I think I just did this on Seth Meyers, and I don't think about it. I don't, like, preload my screams or even know that they're gonna come, But I know when I'm performing, I'm allowed to do them. But, like, one time, like, a fortune teller gave me, like, a really scary fortune. And that reaction that I had was. And you know, that's the truth. The screams are, like, the truth. They're, like, the level at which I'm feeling things.
- [34:31]
Terry Gross
What did the fortune teller tell you?
- [34:33]
Jenny Slate
At the bachelorette party that preceded my first wedding, she told me that I hadn't met the right man, but that I would know it when I met him.
- [34:45]
Terry Gross
Thanks for that, Richard.
- [34:47]
Jenny Slate
Yeah. Should have listened.
- [34:51]
Terry Gross
Can you do one more.
- [34:53]
Jenny Slate
Sure. I wonder what. Yeah, and then like. Okay, then there's one that's like kind of like a variation that happens when there's like you're watching something and you don't know what's going on, which is like. That's sort of more Tarzan Y.
- [35:10]
Terry Gross
Do you ever hurt your voice when you scream? Do you know how to scream without shredding your voice?
- [35:16]
Jenny Slate
I do know how to scream without shredding my voice. So I do that. Like when I'm recording for the Great North. I feel like I scream a lot actually in the Great north just cause like they live in Alaska and they're always like falling off a cliff or you know, like they're like on a sled or something like that. But I do know how to do it. I will say on stage I'm looking for catharsis. And there are things that I don't have a plan, but like, I, somewhere deep inside knows that I want to do it and I need to do it. And I will fully scream. And it does. Like, I'll end up hoarse for sure after that. But there's a difference between, you know, pretending to run really fast and running really fast.
- [35:58]
Terry Gross
One of the things you failed at was one of the most important turning points in your life. All your life. You want to be on Saturday Night Live and then you got the job and you accidentally turned frick into the four letter expletive. You were supposed to use the euphemism, but the real word came out. So the frick turned into the four letter expletive. And you were fired. I think that was the reason you were fired.
- [36:24]
Jenny Slate
No, I don't think so, actually.
- [36:25]
Terry Gross
Okay.
- [36:26]
Jenny Slate
Yeah, I think I generally just didn't fit in. Didn't fit in socially. I felt like I fit in. I'm still friends with most of, you know, the people like that I worked with, but I did not click in as a person who could work there for whatever reason. Like. Yeah, I mean, it's. I just was not a good fit. Yeah, I would imagine that that's why.
- [36:52]
Terry Gross
Did they explain why?
- [36:54]
Jenny Slate
No, they didn't. And I actually found out that I was fired, like on the Internet. So it just kind of was like.
- [37:02]
Terry Gross
Was that through word of mouth that was on the Internet or a press release?
- [37:07]
Jenny Slate
Yeah, I think it was on like Deadline Hollywood and somebody that I knew was like, oh, no, I'm so sorry. I saw the article in the trades basically, and I was just like, what? You know, like, I didn't see it. I hadn't seen it yet.
- [37:24]
Terry Gross
Your first comedy special was called Stage Fright, and you attribute your stage fright in part from getting fired at Saturday Night Live. What's the connection?
- [37:34]
Jenny Slate
I don't think it's like the firing. I think it was like. Also, Twitter was, like, relatively new then, and I had, like, no understanding of myself as a public person. You know, I just thought of myself the way people used to think about themselves as, like, just in their life. And maybe if someone had a picture of you, it was like, you know, in an album. Like, I just didn't understand that there would be an online forum commenting on me. And, yeah, like, you know, I'm a normal person in my way. It hurt my feelings and it made me anxious and less willing to show myself to people. But I also knew that that was not a good place to end. So I tried to work through it.
- [38:21]
Terry Gross
When I interviewed her in 2014, as our time was about to run out, we had been talking about stage fright and how you went to a hypnotist who you kind of attribute to helping you overcome the stage fright and you think you were hypnotized, so you went back to the hypnotist to help you overcome your habit of sleep eating. And I had to cut off that part of the conversation because we had to end the interview. Our time was running out. And so I'd like to pick up where we left off the last time. I'm not sure what sleep eating is.
- [38:51]
Jenny Slate
Well, it used to be. And also, like, I used to also just, like, smoke a lot more weed, you know. Now I don't anymore. It's been maybe six years since, like, there has been any marijuana in my life. And, like, it makes me so paranoid. And it's just. It's. I'm never going back. But maybe it was a function of that, of just like, being hungry from what they call the munchies. But for me, what it was was like I would be almost fully asleep and go into the kitchen and I would eat something and then usually not return it. So we would, like, wake up in the morning and go into the kitchen and there would be ice cream out, things like that, like, things that had been ruined. I think it's a major sign of anxiety. It's not something that I don't sleep, eat anymore. But I can tell when I am fretting and worrying because I usually wake up around three in the morning and have to go and have like a little snack. And then the second I have it, my mind goes blank and I'm Able to rest, but it only happens when I'm anxious.
- [39:59]
Terry Gross
Do you think this hypnosis helped with that?
- [40:02]
Jenny Slate
I don't think so. I don't think so. And I also think that I really pushed mostly through whatever he did to me to get rid of the stage fright. It was better for a while and then. And then it just came back so much around the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It just came like. It's just I really want to do a live stage show, like a kind of like a one woman show. And the thing holding me back is like, I am delighted when I think about the rehearsal process. I'm delighted when I think about things like set design, what the material is. And I am so terrified thinking of, like, grossed out. Genuinely thinking of the time between, like, a matinee and an evening performance and like the time, like, when I play clubs, which is not that often, but I do, like, two shows a night. And after getting off stage after the first show, the feeling of, like, yeah, I did it. And then the realization that, like, I have to go again is. It's like, what is the. It's like a Sisyphusian. It's just like, oh, my God, I cannot believe that I have to do this again. It is.
- [41:14]
Terry Gross
It's like tension release. Oops, tension.
- [41:17]
Jenny Slate
Totally. Yeah. It's not a comfortable feeling and it's not a, like the lady doth protest, like, you know, tell me I'm really good and, like, I should be doing this. It's like, I don't like it. It's not a good fit for me. And I have to take whatever success I've earned to allow myself a schedule that is, like, doable for me in a, like, a neurological way. Like, it just. It really, really messes with me. The stage fright.
- [41:42]
Terry Gross
Jenny Slate, it's been great to talk with you again. Thank you so much for coming back on the show.
- [41:46]
Jenny Slate
Thank you for having me back. It's really nice to. It's always nice to be invited in once, but I always say it's the return, you know, that means that you're okay.
- [41:56]
Terry Gross
You're more than okay.
- [41:58]
Jenny Slate
Thank you so much, Ray.
- [42:00]
Terry Gross
This was a real pleasure.
- [42:01]
Jenny Slate
Thank you.
- [42:02]
Tanya Mosley
Ginny Slate talking with Terry Gross earlier this year. The comic and actor has a new book of essays titled Life Form. Coming up, Justin Chang reviews the new Clint Eastwood film, juror number two. This is FRESH AIR.
- [42:18]
Jenny Slate
Hey, everyone. I'm B.A. parker, a host of the podcast Code Switch. And on my show, I get to dig into all of the facets of being a Black woman. From honoring my ancestors to exploring representation in reality tv, Code Switch is a.
- [42:34]
Tanya Mosley
Place where I think out loud about.
- [42:36]
Jenny Slate
How race and identity are connected. Join me on the Code Switch podcast from npr.
- [42:43]
Terry Gross
Ever look up at the stars and.
- [42:44]
Tanya Mosley
Wonder what's out there? On shortwave, we ask big questions about our universe.
- [42:51]
Terry Gross
From baby galaxies to the search for alien life.
- [42:54]
Tanya Mosley
We explore the celestial science behind these questions. Listen now to the shortwave podcast from npr.
- [43:06]
Terry Gross
If you need a moment to catch your breath and calm your nerves, listen to the latest All Songs Considered from NPR Music. We've got an all new mix of songs to slow the blood and recalibrate your day. Plus reflections on gratitude, joy and the power of kindness. Listen to new episodes of All Songs.
- [43:24]
Jenny Slate
Considered every Tuesday, wherever you get podcasts.
- [43:29]
Tanya Mosley
This is FRESH air. In the courtroom drama Juror Number two, the latest movie directed by Clint Eastwood, Nicholas Holt plays a man called up for jury duty and is confronted with a moral crisis. The movie also features performances by Toni Collette and J.K. simmons. Our film critic Justin Chang says it's a thoughtful, complex story and one of Eastwood's better recent film, and recommends that you see it in theaters while you can.
- [43:57]
Ben Mankiewicz
Last week, Warner Bros. Opened Juror 2 in limited release with minimal fanfare and no plans to report the film's domestic box office. It's not the typical treatment for a Clint Eastwood movie, especially one that some think might be the last Clint Eastwood movie. I hope they're wrong. Either way, the fact that Eastwood's longtime studio would bury his latest speaks to the various crises that have befallen the industry in general and Warners in particular. At 94, Eastwood seems ever more like an anomaly in American filmmaking, a Hollywood legend with nothing left to prove, still cranking out his unfussy mid budget dramas for a grown up audience that the major studios have all but abandoned. Juror Number Two is actually one of his better directed efforts of late, certainly compared with recent disappointments like Cry Macho and Le Mule. There's a little old school John Grisham in this movie's legal thriller, DNA, even though it features an original screenplay by Jonathan Abrams. Nicholas Holt stars as Justin Kemp, a Georgia based magazine writer who's expecting a baby with his wife, played by Zoe Deutsch. It's a high risk pregnancy and so the timing isn't ideal when Justin gets selected as a juror in a major murder trial. The defendant, James Scythe, stands accused of killing his girlfriend, Kendall Carter, after the two had a heated argument in a bar one night. As the facts of the case emerge. Justin, a recovering alcoholic, realizes that he was at that same bar on the very night in question. Suddenly alarmed that he could be more involved than he thought, he seeks advice from his AA sponsor, Larry, who also happens to be a lawyer played by Kiefer Sutherland.
- [45:56]
Jenny Slate
So I went to clear my head and found myself at Rowdy's Hideaway. Ordered a drink and sat there for a while. Then I got up and left. I went about a quarter of a mile and I hit something. I got out the car and I looked around. I checked. I didn't see anything. And I figured it was a deer that ran off. And then I got back in the car and went home. Okay, what's the problem? I got called for jury duty. The Kendall Cardi case. They found her body in a creek bed about a quarter mile from Rowdy's Hideaway last October. What are you telling me? Maybe I didn't hit a deer.
- [46:42]
Ben Mankiewicz
Larry advises Justin to keep quiet lest he face serious prison time. But Justin, worried that his silence could send an innocent man to prison, tries to plead Scythe's case during deliberations, which quickly turn contentious. There's a creakiness to the writing here. The bickering sounds forced, and some of the jurors veer toward cultural stereotypes. But others are more sharply drawn. J.K. simmons brings his hard nosed intelligence to the role of one of Justin's few allies, while Cedric Yarbrough finds the simmering tension in every line as a juror convinced of the defendant's guilt. It all plays like a barbed riff on 12 Angry Men, where one man seeks to sway his fellow jurors not to bring about justice so much as assuage his own conscience. But Justin isn't the only character held up for moral scrutiny. The courtroom's most compelling figure is the prosecutor Faith, played with terrific nuance by Toni Collette. Faith does her job with skill, integrity, and a great deal of ambition. She's running for district attorney, and she knows that securing a conviction could help her chances. Colette and Holt played a mother and son in the 2002 comedy about a boy. And while the actors don't share too much screen time in Juror 2 beyond one doozy of a late scene, it's still a pleasure to see them reunited more than 20 years later. Holt is especially strong as a man wrestling quietly with past demons and present dilemmas, and whose response is to rationalize like crazy. After all, maybe Scythe, a man known for his rough past, really did kill his girlfriend. And even if he didn't. How can Justin turn himself in, just as he and his wife are about to start a family? Eastwood may take his characters to task, but he also sees the bigger picture. He's long had a skeptical view of institutions and their failings, whether it's a corrupt police force in Changeling or the manipulations of the media in movies like Sully and Richard jewell. In Juror 2, he takes measured aim at the American justice system, from the dogged attorneys muddling their way through the evidence to the exhausted jurors who just want to deliver a quick verdict, to the procedural fault lines and blind spots that can make the truth seem so elusive. It's a thorny, thoughtful film, and I wish its own studio had more confidence in it. If Eastwood does make another one, I wouldn't mind seeing him take on another broken American system rife with cynicism, self interest and compromise. And that, of course, is Hollywood itself.
- [49:32]
Tanya Mosley
Justin Chang is a film critic for the New Yorker. He reviewed Juror Number 2, directed by Clint Eastwood. On Monday's show, Marine Corps veteran and essayist Phil Kley examines the moral complexities of war, examining what he calls the growing disconnect between American civilians and the military. I talk with Kley about his reflections on the role of the US Military in ongoing wars and the priorities of incoming President Donald Trump. I hope you can join us. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director is Audrey Bentham. Our engineer is Adam Stanischevsky, with additional engineering support by Joyce Lieberman, Julian Hertzfeld and Diana Martinez. For Terry Gross, I'm Tanya Moseley.
- [50:21]
Jenny Slate
On the Embedded podcast, every Marine takes.
- [50:24]
Ben Mankiewicz
An oath to protect the Constitution against.
- [50:27]
Jenny Slate
All enemies, foreign and domestic.
- [50:30]
Ben Mankiewicz
This is the story of a Marine in the Capitol on January 6th. Did he break his oath? And what does that mean for all of us? Listen to a good guy on the Embedded podcast from npr. Both episodes available now.
- [50:46]
Tanya Mosley
This message comes from osea.
- [50:48]
Terry Gross
Their Super Glow body set is the perfect gift.
- [50:51]
Tanya Mosley
Get the set valued at $106 for.
- [50:54]
Jenny Slate
$72, plus an additional 10% off when.
- [50:58]
Tanya Mosley
You use code holiday@oseamalibu.com On NPR's Wildcard podcast, comedian Seth Meyers talks frankly about his early career.
- [51:07]
Jenny Slate
I was far more temperamental when I.
- [51:09]
Terry Gross
Was younger and things ran very hot at snl and there were definitely times.
- [51:14]
Jenny Slate
Where my instincts were to say something.
- [51:17]
Terry Gross
That would have been relationship ending to people.
- [51:20]
Tanya Mosley
I'm Rachel Martin.
- [51:21]
Terry Gross
Seth Meyers is on Wildcard, the show.
- [51:23]
Tanya Mosley
Where cards control the conversation.