Jeremy Strong / Sebastian Stan / Adrien Brody

Summary

Fresh Air – Oscars Nominations with Jeremy Strong, Sebastian Stan, and Adrien Brody

Episode Release Date: February 28, 2025

Introduction

In this Oscar season episode of Fresh Air, host Terry Gross engages in intimate conversations with three distinguished nominees: Jeremy Strong, Sebastian Stan, and Adrien Brody. Each interview delves deep into their acclaimed performances, exploring the nuances of their characters, the challenges of embodying real-life figures, and the personal insights gained through their craft. This episode provides a comprehensive look into the artistry and dedication behind some of Hollywood’s most compelling performances.

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Jeremy Strong on Portraying Roy Cohn in The Apprentice

Jeremy Strong, nominated for his supporting role as Roy Cohn in The Apprentice, opens the discussion by reflecting on his character's complexity and historical significance. Cohn, a controversial figure known for his mentorship of a young Donald Trump and his role in Senator Joseph McCarthy's anti-communist investigations, presents a multifaceted challenge for Strong.

Key Topics and Insights:

• Historical Fidelity and Emotional Connection: Strong emphasizes the importance of maintaining historical accuracy while capturing the emotional essence of Cohn. He states, “I feel an enormous sense of responsibility to a kind of historical veracity and accuracy to try and capture and render the essence of these people” ([04:50]).

• Character Complexity: Discussing Cohn’s persona, Strong acknowledges the necessity of understanding the character beyond surface-level judgments. “You have to really check that at the door as an actor... identify their wounds and their struggle and then fight their fight the way they did” ([10:15]).

• Performance Nuance: Strong highlights the strategic use of voice and rhythm to embody Cohn, stating, “voice is very important to me for any character... the music of that is something that becomes your job to both master and then throw away” ([07:28]).

Notable Quotes:

• “Roy Cohn... is like the progenitor of alternative facts. He thought truth was a plaything that you could do as you wish with it” ([04:57]).
• “I feel like my job is to almost be a sort of vessel... to be a musician, a first chair musician, to play whatever instrument it is that I'm given to play” ([06:39]).

Concluding Thoughts: Strong underscores the emotional and ethical dimensions of portraying Cohn, balancing objective portrayal with personal introspection. His dedication to immersing himself fully into the role provides a layered and authentic representation of a historically significant yet morally ambiguous figure.

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Sebastian Stan on Embodying Donald Trump in The Apprentice

Sebastian Stan, nominated for his starring role as Donald Trump in The Apprentice, discusses the intricacies of portraying a real and polarizing figure. His approach involves a delicate balance between authenticity and creative interpretation to avoid caricature.

Key Topics and Insights:

• Voice and Mannerisms: Stan explains his conscious decisions to differentiate his portrayal from the widely recognized contemporary Trump. “I had to very carefully select and maneuver them and kind of earn them over the period of time of the movie” ([15:01]).

• Improvisation in Performance: Highlighting his creative process, Stan reveals, “That whole clip actually was improvised... I was already prepared to sort of have something ready” ([16:38]).

• Impact of Portraying Trump Amidst His Presidency: Reflecting on Trump’s presidency during his portrayal, Stan notes, “What we go in depth in the film... it's eerily familiar. It's predictable. It's also, I may say, tragic” ([18:14]).

• Empathy and Character Understanding: Stan discusses the necessity of empathy in acting, stating, “I have wrestled with a degree of powerlessness as a child... but nowhere near the degree of powerlessness that I feel he must have gone through” ([20:31]).

Notable Quotes:

• “Trump did not sound like Trump when he was in his mid to late 30s... avoid falling into caricature” ([15:01]).
• “It's always just be denying reality and reshaping the truth as long as it fits his narrative” ([18:14]).

Concluding Thoughts: Stan’s portrayal of Trump is a study in restraint and intentionality, avoiding the pitfalls of exaggeration while delivering a performance that resonates with authenticity. His reflections reveal a deep engagement with the character’s psychological complexities and the broader societal implications of Trump’s influence.

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Adrien Brody on Playing Laszlo Toth in The Brutalist

Adrien Brody, nominated for his role in The Brutalist, shares insights into his preparation and the thematic parallels between his current and past performances. Portraying Laszlo Toth, a Hungarian refugee striving to rebuild his life in post-war America, Brody draws upon his experience in The Pianist to inform his approach.

Key Topics and Insights:

• Character Preparation and Authenticity: Brody emphasizes the importance of immersive preparation, stating, “I can't portray a man who's starving if I don't understand hunger” ([27:12]).

• Artistic Legacy and Historical Context: He connects his roles, noting how The Brutalist and The Pianist both reference transformative historical moments and the enduring human spirit. “They both reference this time that has changed the shape and face of this world indelibly” ([29:30]).

• Use of Silence and Non-Dialogue Storytelling: Brody discusses the powerful use of silence in The Brutalist to convey the immigrant experience and the alienation felt by adapting to a new culture. “A lot of the silence... is also up to the filmmaker and the editor” ([32:09]).

• Family Influence and Artistic Inspiration: Reflecting on his upbringing, Brody credits his mother’s photography and artistic environment for fostering his creative sensibilities. “I am very much a focal point in front of the lens that came from an artist's eye” ([38:20]).

Notable Quotes:

• “Laszlo... settles in Pennsylvania... creates a community center in honor of his mother” ([24:50]).
• “The beauty of its length is that you are afforded moments that feel very real and personal” ([32:09]).

Concluding Thoughts: Brody’s portrayal of Laszlo Toth is marked by a commitment to authenticity and emotional depth, drawing parallels between historical trauma and personal resilience. His discussion highlights the intersection of art and memory, and the role of storytelling in navigating and transcending adversity.

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Conclusion

This episode of Fresh Air offers a profound exploration of the dedication and artistry behind some of this year's most lauded performances. Jeremy Strong, Sebastian Stan, and Adrien Brody each provide unique perspectives on their roles, shedding light on the challenges and triumphs of bringing complex characters to life. Their reflections not only celebrate their individual achievements but also underscore the transformative power of acting in understanding and portraying the human condition.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Jeremy Strong:

  • “[04:50]... an enormous sense of responsibility to a kind of historical veracity and accuracy to try and capture and render the essence of these people.”
  • “[07:28]... the music of that is something that becomes your job to both master and then throw away.”

• Sebastian Stan:

  • “[15:01]... Trump did not sound like Trump when he was in his mid to late 30s.”
  • “[18:14]... it's eerily familiar. It's predictable. It's also, I may say, tragic.”

• Adrien Brody:

  • “[27:12]... I can't portray a man who's starving if I don't understand hunger.”
  • “[32:09]... the silence... is also up to the filmmaker and the editor.”

---

This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the episode, providing listeners with a detailed understanding of the conversations and insights shared by the Oscar nominees. Whether you missed the episode or seek a deeper appreciation of these performances, this summary serves as a valuable guide to the rich discussions featured on Fresh Air.

Transcript

[Capella University]

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[David Bianculli]

This is FRESH air. I'm David Biancooli. The Academy Awards are Sunday. Today we feature interviews with three nominees. First, actor Jeremy Strong. He's probably best known for his role in the HBO series Succession, playing the troubled character of Kendall Roy in the film the Apprentice. Strong is nominated for his role as the unscrupulous lawyer Roy Cohn, who mentored a young Donald Trump as he was establishing himself in his father's real estate business. In the 1950s. Cohn was infamous for being the chief counsel to Senator Joseph McCarthy's Senate investigation into suspected communists. Cohn and McCarthy also were leaders in the anti gay movement that led to an executive order banning gay people from serving in government. But Cohn was a closeted gay man who died of aids. He never came out and insisted that his disease wasn't AIDS but was liver cancer. Strong's performance personifies what was written about Cohn on his patch on the AIDS memorial quilt. Bully coward victim Terry spoke with Jeremy Strong last October. Let's begin with a scene from early in the film when Trump and Cohn first meet. Trump has just gotten accepted to a private dining club in Manhattan. Cohn is seated at a table with several mobsters, including Fat Tony Salerno, the boss of the Genovese crime family. When cone notices Trump, whom he's never seen before, he asks his friend to bring Trump to the table. Cohn is interested in finding out who Trump is. Trump is played by Sebastian Stan. Jeremy Strong as Cohen speaks first.

[Jeremy Strong]

What is your business, Donald?

[Sebastian Stan]

Real estate. I'm vice president of Trump Organization.

[Jeremy Strong]

Oh, you're Fred Trump's kid.

[Sebastian Stan]

That's right.

[Jeremy Strong]

He's Fred Trump's kid. It sounds like your father's a little tangled up and looks like he could use a good motor, but tell us about it.

[Sebastian Stan]

Right now the government and the NAACP are suing us. They're saying our apartments are segregated.

[Jeremy Strong]

This is America. You can rent to whoever the hell you damn want.

[Sebastian Stan]

But our lawyer wants us to pay a huge fine to settle and we can't. It's going to bankrupt us and ruin the company.

[Jeremy Strong]

You tell the feds to themselves, file a lawsuit. Always file a lawsuit. Fight him in court. Make them prove you're discriminating.

[Sebastian Stan]

Wow. I guess might have to get us a new lawyer.

[Jeremy Strong]

Of course, it helps if Nixon and the attorney general are your pals.

[Terry Gross]

Jeremy Strong, welcome to FRESH air. I love the film and that that scene has so much energy to it. You have such swagger in it.

[Jeremy Strong]

Thank you, Terry. I'm honored to be talking to you. Thanks for having me.

[Terry Gross]

Oh, it is totally my pleasure. You know, a biopic is different from a film based on an original story. So you had a character who was a known person who you had to portray. What did you do to know to watch, to listen to him before playing him?

[Jeremy Strong]

Yeah, you know, I'll just say I haven't watched the film in a while. And hearing that scene back, it's really so charged, isn't it? And Roy in that scene encapsulates the playbook which the film examines. The idea that, you know, what Roy Cohn stood for, these principles that he passed on to Donald Trump. Always attack, deny everything and never admit defeat. They're all kind of the DNA of that scene contains all of them. It's a great introduction of a character. But your question about playing historical figures. You know, I've done a fair amount of work playing people who, you know, were either alive or were historical figures. John Nicolet in Lincoln, James Reeb in Selma, Jerry Rubin in The Charlie Chicago 7, Lee Harvey Oswald. I feel always an enormous sense of responsibility to a kind of historical veracity and accuracy to try and capture and render the essence of these people. And ultimately it's not an intellectual. You're not writing an essay on someone. So the information is sort of emotional, intuitive, visceral information.

[Terry Gross]

Did you ever fact check any of it? Like, did you feel a responsibility to not only be have acting truth, but have, you know, like fact truth?

[Jeremy Strong]

Absolutely. Yes. I absolutely feel his sort of fidelity to truth with a capital T, which is funny in this case because Roy Cohn, if he's anything to me, he's like the progenitor of alternative facts. He's like not someone who really espoused truth with a capital T. He thought truth was a plaything that you could do as you wish with it.

[Terry Gross]

And I should mention here that the film was written by Gabriel Sherman, who is a journalist who, who wrote a book about Murdoch and Fox News.

[Jeremy Strong]

Yeah. A book about Roger Ailes.

[Terry Gross]

Yeah. I should have said Ailes. Right.

[Jeremy Strong]

Well, no, I mean, it's also about Murdoch. But of course, I read that book when I was working on succession, because during that time.

[Terry Gross]

Right. Well, that's the thing. I feel like your recent career is so connected to Trump.

[Jeremy Strong]

There's intersectionality there.

[Terry Gross]

Yeah. What I want to know is, do you feel very adjacent to Trump? Like that, you know, Trump? Because your characters have been so, you know, related to Trump in one way or another and very directly related in the Apprentice.

[Jeremy Strong]

You know, I don't. I don't. If I'm honest, I feel that my job is to almost be a sort of vessel, which involves kind of clearing myself out. I went on a silent meditation retreat last week. Terry and the teacher, who's an incredible man named Jon Kabat Zinn, who's written a lot of great books.

[Terry Gross]

Oh, yeah, yeah. I know.

[Jeremy Strong]

John talked about a term called anatta, which means no self or not self. And it really resonated with me because I find that that is the place where I tend to be when I'm working, I think creatively. But your question about whether I felt adjacent to Trump, I guess I don't. I guess I feel like my job is to be a musician, a first chair musician, to play whatever instrument it is that I'm given to play, whatever piece of music.

[Terry Gross]

Because I was going to ask you if you notate your scripts as if they were music, because, like, in the scene that we just heard, there's real music in your voice. You've got a rhythm.

[Jeremy Strong]

Thank you. You know, I used to, when I was in college, I sort of have held on to old scripts and plays, and when I did, you know, American Buffalo or something, look back in anger in college, I have a million notes and it's sort of notated and annotated to death. And then at a certain point, I stopped writing anything down. I guess at a certain point you develop a trust in your unconscious, intuitive self that if it's properly absorbed something, then it will be there somehow. Now, the. I think voice is very important to me for any character. And Roy had a very, very particular way of speaking and a very specific pentameter. And the music of that is something that becomes your job to both master and then throw away. You know, he writes in Hamlet, Shakespeare says that use can almost change the stamp of nature.

[Adrien Brody]

And.

[Jeremy Strong]

And I feel that actors, especially when you're attempting to do some kind of transformational work, which is the kind of work that I love the most and have been inspired by in my life the most. Your job is to kind of change the stamp of your nature. And voice is a really key part of that, because there's something about a person's voice that is like their eyes. It's such a way in to that person.

[Terry Gross]

Well, why don't we listen to the real Roy Cohn's voice. This is from an interview with Tom Snyder on his late night show tomorrow.

[Jeremy Strong]

I probably watched this a thousand times.

[Terry Gross]

Really, as broadcast in 1977. So here we go.

[Sebastian Stan]

Now here's Roy Cohn, who appeared recently on the COVID of Esquire magazine and the title of that article, as I recall, sir, was the Legal Executioner and went on to say that you are really a tough man and that at times you can tough, mean vicious, so on. What does that kind of publicity do for your business in New York? It's fantastic. The worse the adjectives, the better it is for business. What are they looking for? What are they buying? Scare value. Going back over a period of years, when I call somebody or write a letter or something like that, this is supposed to make them tremble and think unless they act promptly and reasonably that all sorts of terrible consequences are gonna flow.

[Terry Gross]

So what was it like playing somebody who you find like is despicable to too strong a word?

[Jeremy Strong]

I mean, I don't think it's too strong a word, but you know, you have to really check that at the door as an actor, when you approach, you have to leave your judgments at the door and try to in an almost diagnostic way, identify their wounds and their struggle and then fight their fight the way they did. I'm simply trying to inhabit him in a fully dimensional way as you do for any character.

[David Bianculli]

Jeremy Strong speaking with Terry Gross last October. He's nominated for an Oscar for his supporting role as Roy Cohn in the film the Apprentice. We'll hear from his co star in the film Sebastian Stan after a break. This is FRESH air.

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[David Bianculli]

Today we're featuring our interviews with Oscar contenders. Sebastian Stan, whose credits include playing Tommy Lee in the TV series Pam and Tommy and Bucky Barnes in Marvel's Captain America and Avengers movies, is Nominated for an Academy Award for his starring role as Donald Trump in the film the Apprentice. The movie begins in 1973, when Trump is 27, still working for his father's real estate development company and trying to make a name for himself. The company is being sued for discriminating against black people in its rental units. Trump convinces his father to hire Roy Cohn as their attorney. Cohn becomes Trump's mentor, teaching him how to admit nothing and deny everything, go on the attack and intimidate through the threat of lawsuits. Terry Gross recently spoke with Sebastian Stan. Let's start with a scene from the Apprentice. Trump is planning to build Trump Tower and is trying to persuade the mayor of New York City, Ed Koch, that the building will be so extraordinary, Koch should give him tax breaks. Roy Cohn, played by Jeremy Strong, also is in the room. You'll hear him jump into the conversation.

[Sebastian Stan]

I really think this is going to be one of the most exceptional buildings anywhere in the world. And frankly, there's never been anything like it. 68 stories tall, 28 sides, a million square feet. Every unit will have amenities like you wouldn't believe. And the high floors have exceptional views over Central Park. The lobby, the floors will all be marble, pink Paradiso marble from Italy. It will have the largest atrium in the World, a 60 foot waterfall spanned by shops and retail and restaurants. And I think it's going to be something very special. Frankly, there's never been anything and what are you going to call it? Trump Tower. Trump Tower. Oh, that's interesting.

[Jeremy Strong]

Look, he has a great track record, so we think this is a very reasonable ask.

[Sebastian Stan]

Well, I, as I frequently say about his buildings, the merits to find. The thing is, we're just not going to give you the tax breaks. Why would we?

[Adrien Brody]

I mean, I can't let you get.

[Sebastian Stan]

Rich on the backs of the people of New York and they trace your Ray Banch. Well, I can't.

[Jeremy Strong]

First of all, look, Mr. Mayor, my clients.

[Sebastian Stan]

You're not, you're not Mr. Mayor, because I'm building a 68 story building that's going to employ 5,000 construction workers. And we have heard stories about the.

[Adrien Brody]

Construction workers working on your projects.

[Sebastian Stan]

They don't get paid.

[Adrien Brody]

They have Leons against you.

[Sebastian Stan]

Donald, I'm trying to employ people in New York and turn us back around. You're trying towards the future and you're being a very unfair guy because frankly, what do you know about me? What do you know about the amount of money that I made on my own? You don't know anything to be perfectly honest, Mr. Mayor, you don't know me at all. But you will. You'll never forget me after this, because I won't forget what you just did. Trump Tower will be built with or without you. Okay? You're about to be sued. Mr. Mayor.

[Terry Gross]

Sebastian. Stan, welcome to Fresh Air. It's a pleasure to have you on the show. I think you're great.

[Sebastian Stan]

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[Terry Gross]

So after choosing that clip, first of all, I should say some listeners were probably thinking, he doesn't sound like Trump. What would you say to that?

[Sebastian Stan]

Well, I mean, I would say that Trump did not sound like Trump when he was in his mid to late 30s, which is when that was sort of happening. And I think that I did make some conscious choices very carefully with the voice, not only just to honor the age and what he sounded like at the time, which to me sounded very different than today, but also to not lean into it as much as it's become popular to do. Because a big challenge with this role was obviously to avoid falling into caricature and into sort of the version of a cartoon that he's somewhat become. One would argue, even willingly on his own part, whether he's aware of that or not, because the voice, along with mannerisms and other physical characteristics that he has, that we've become so accustomed to and we've been so oversaturated with, really had to be kind of very. I had to very carefully select and maneuver them and kind of earn them over the period of time of the movie, very much like he did as he grew into what we see today. But in part because I needed to bring audience in on this journey as opposed to alienating them from the beginning with what they've already sort of know and expect.

[Terry Gross]

After choosing that clip, I read that you improvised some of that scene.

[Sebastian Stan]

That whole clip actually was improvised, yes. The scene and the script as it was written. It started out with, you know, it just said, Donald finishes introducing Trump Tower. And he sits down and he goes, well, what do you think, Mr. Mayor? And he goes, oh, very fascinating. What do you call it? But in the manner that we had been shooting, by the time we got to the scene, I was already prepared to sort of have something ready because our director was always encouraging and really the script was asking for this. You know, it was always asking for the beginning and the end of the scenes, which weren't there. You know, we had a lot of the middle of the bulk of what we needed. Right. That it was written. But there were many times where we needed to kind of, like, find out about what surrounded it. And, you know, that was part of what I did to prepare many times the night before with this scene and other scenes where I would very kind of surgically construct an improvisation in his way of speaking that I would get from various interviews that I'd collected over time and things that he had said to Barbara Walters and Larry King and. And many things that he had said to Ed Koch and all kinds of footage that I'd placed together.

[Terry Gross]

You made the film while Biden was president in between Trump's two terms, what's it like watching his second term after having played him?

[Sebastian Stan]

Well, that's a really great question, and it's one where there's no real clear answer that I can give you. It's a mixed bag. It's a mixed bag. I mean, in a lot of ways, a lot of things look very predictable to me, especially having studied him for this film. The victimhood, blaming, the revenge tactics, all that we go in depth in the film that he had absorbed from Roy Cohn. You really do see, I think even if you look at the inauguration, I mean, and even at the debate, right, with Kamala Harris, I mean, you really see what we talk about in the movie of these sort of ways. He's learned to flip it around on the other person and kind of just. Always just be denying reality and reshaping the truth as long as it fits his narrative. And the complete, utter lack of. Lack of acceptance for any criticism or any wrongdoing or anything whatsoever. So it's eerily familiar. It's predictable. It's also, I may say, tragic, because I guess for me, you know, I also feel like I saw a version of this overweight kid that was paranoid and insecure and desperate for attention, that was made to pay a big price at daddy's big betrayal, sending him off to military school, where he had to kind of, you know, whatever happened there, that. That dehumanized him further, and the revenge that he's been enacting out, you know, and. And at the same time, it's. It's. It's hard not to sort of find some of it upsetting as well, because I do feel so much of it is rage and anger that's been suppressed and undealt with that. We're all having to kind of just, you know, deal with and pay a price for playing him.

[Terry Gross]

I'm sure you had to be him and see things from his point of view, which requires you, the actor, to have empathy for Trump. The character that you're portraying?

[Sebastian Stan]

Well, I think as an actor, you have to kind of go through a process where you look at what are the things here that I feel that are useful for me to do this in the right way that it's asking of me and, and what are the things that I feel that are gonna work against me. And then you have to sort of become an investigator and you have to, in a way, be a bodyguard to the character you're playing. And I've wrestled with a degree of powerlessness as a child that I felt growing up as a result of a lot of change that happened very quickly in formative years where I didn't feel safe and changing countries and changing schools and changing homes and caretakers coming and going and so on. And that's affected my life in a certain way. But I would argue nowhere near the degree of powerlessness that I feel he must have gone through in order to create such an ulterior ego to the extent that he has, because that's what I really see it's about with him. It's always power and mistrust and paranoia and everything is transactional. That's how he operates.

[David Bianculli]

Sebastian Stan speaking to Terry Gross. He's nominated for an Academy Award for his starring role as Donald Trump in the Apprentice. After a break, we'll hear from another of this year's best actor Oscar nominees, Adrian Brody, nominated for his starring role in the Brutalist, and John Powers. Reviews flow, an animated film from Latvia that has earned Oscar nominations for both best animated feature and best international film. I'm David Biancooli and this is FRESH air. The Academy Awards are being televised on Sunday, and among the best actor nominees is Adrien Brody, up for his starring role in the Brutalist. He plays a Hungarian refugee who escapes post war Europe and arrives in the US with dreams of rebuilding his life. The film is up for 10 Academy Awards, including best picture, directing, cinematography, supporting actor and actress and screenplay. Directed by Brady Courbet, the Brutalist explores the harsh realities of the American dream. Brody portrays a fictional character named Laszlo Toth, who settles in Pennsylvania in 1947. He soon meets a wealthy industrialist played by Guy Pearce, who, who's also nominated for an Academy Award, who recognizes Laszlo's talent and hires him to create a community center in honor of his mother. However, the relationship between the two comes at a cost. The sweeping nature of the Brutalist is reminiscent of Brody's work in the Pianist, in which he won an Oscar for his stirring performance as a Jewish pianist from Warsaw who survived the Holocaust by hiding from the Nazis. Adrienne Brody spoke with Tonya Moseley last month.

[Tonya Moseley]

I want to play a clip so folks can hear a little bit from the movie. But first I want to just set up your character. Laszlo arrives in the US in 47. And he goes to stay with his cousin in Philly, who's been in the US For a couple of years now. And he owns a furniture shop named Miller and Sons. And I'm saying that because that is not your cousin's name. He does not have sons. But he notes that Americans love a simple. And they also love a family business. So your character works for his cousin, designing furniture for the store. And then one day, the son of a wealthy businessman asks you two to redesign his father's library as a surprise. And when the father, Harrison Lee Van Buren, who's played by Guy Pearce, returns home and sees this library, he's furious. He refuses to pay. This sends your character into a spiral. Until a little while later, Lee Van Buren searches and finds your character shoveling coal. He apologizes. He asks him to be a part of this new project to create a community center in honor of his deceased mother. And in this scene I'm about to play, Van Buren asks your character why he chose architecture as a profession when he lived in Hungary. Van Buren, played by Pierce, speaks first.

[Sebastian Stan]

Answer me something. Why architecture?

[H]

Is it a test? No, it is. Nothing is of its own explanation. Is there a better description of a cube than that of its construction? There was a war on. And yet it is my understanding that many of the sites of my projects had survived. They remained there, still in the city. When the terrible recollections of what happened in Europe cease to humiliate us, I expect for them to serve instead as a political stimulus, sparking the upheavals that so frequently occur in the cycles of peoplehood.

[Tonya Moseley]

That's my guest today, Adrien Brody in the new film the Brutalist. He's in that scene with Guy Pearce. And you're known, you're pretty well known for going the extra mile to embody your characters. In particular, with the Pianist, you did all sorts of stuff. You gave up your apartment, you put your stuff in storage. You moved to Europe. You learned to play the piano. I think all the headlines talked about how you starved yourself. I think you lost, like, 30 pounds. And you do this with all of a lot of your films. For the movie dummy. You literally slept with the dummy to play a ventriloquist.

[H]

Depends what you mean by that. But yes, he slept in the same bed together. But I worked with it very. I had to learn how to be very close to it.

[Tonya Moseley]

Were there any things in particular for this role that you kind of refashioned your life for, to really embody Laszlo?

[H]

You know, I only do what I feel is necessary to find a closeness and a sense of truth so that I can, you know, quote, act less, you know, and feel honest in an interpretation. I can't portray a man who's starving if I don't understand hunger. I can't portray the physical shift of a man who's starved by not losing that weight. I can't understand classical music without knowing to play it. You name it. And fortunately, a lot of that work that I had done in an effort to honor Spielman and the Pianist and really to honor one man's journey that represented the loss of 6 million and spoke to such a horrific time in our history gave me a great deal of insight and understanding in what Laszlo's past experiences were, that he is just on the precipice of overcoming as he arrives to the United States. And so while this movie is a vastly different story and a story about an immigrant's journey, and it is also the journey of someone who's endured that. And it's quite remarkable how that has lived with me and given me greater insight years later in a role like this.

[Tonya Moseley]

How did that role give you insight? Because I will tell you, I watched the Pianist again and then I watched the Brutalist. And so I kind of watched them back to back. And of course, as you said, yeah, there. I know some heavy times, but really, like a very. It was really important for me to watch it that way, and I'm glad I did. As you said, they are two very different films and your characters are different, but they do feel like, to me that they are speaking to each other. I don't know if that's the right way to put it. Maybe it's that they both hit a similar emotional note. I'm wondering how you see that.

[H]

Well, they both reference this time that has changed the shape and face of this world indelibly. And they both reference how intolerance and oppression and anti Semitism and forces that are ugly exist and have deprived us of so much beauty in this world. This movie, the Brutalist, is a fictional story. And the reason it's a fictional story is because when Brady and Mona were doing their research to try and write a film about a European architect who survived the Nazi occupation and carried on his work in America, there were none to be found because they'd all been killed. And then Brady and Mona had to find references of other wonderful creatives who were similar. And like Marcel Brower, who has left a wonderful legacy of work, you know, as an architect. As an architect, but had Left in the mid-30s, fortunately. And so I think the films obviously speak to this horrific time and speak to the power of art and the beauty and the capacity for the human spirit to endure and the power to. Of the ability to create beauty and lightness amidst darkness and to find purpose in art to transcend that darkness.

[Tonya Moseley]

The use of silence in both of the films is also really powerful. In the Pianist, the Silence is because Spielman is alone in his hiding from the Nazis. But in the brutalist, from my view, the silence plays another role. It plays a lens into the life of an immigrant. Like, on a very practical sense, when you are coming to a new country and you don't speak the language well, you are other. You are an outsider. As you're saying, like, that's a lonely experience. And so there are probably huge swaths of time where there is silence, especially when you don't have your family with.

[H]

You and you don't have the words. You don't have the vocabulary or confidence to speak in another language. You know, I can understand a fair amount of French, but I'm very reticent to start speaking, especially when I'm in France, because I'm just not confident with that. And, you know, the pressure of coming to a new land and trying to communicate and express yourself in a way is very hard for many people. But, yeah, I see what you're saying. A lot of the silence that exists or does not exist in a film is also up to the filmmaker and the editor. And, you know, the beauty of this film, and you can correct me if you feel differently. But in spite of its length, it does not feel long. And the beauty of its length is that you are afforded moments that feel very real and personal because you can sit with the characters and experience those moments, and they aren't truncated in an effort to keep a scene lively and edgy for the sake of pace. And that takes a very confident and brave filmmaker and one who understands the nuance of language and storytelling and trusts in his actors and gives them the space and honors, those magical moments that can be created.

[Tonya Moseley]

I know you've been acting since you were very young. How old were you when you first started?

[H]

I think my first professional job was 12 years old. You know, before acting, I started doing magic and I was. You could call it a professional job. I mean, I think I earned $50 to do a children's birthday party in its entirety. But I loved magic, and I found that, that the storytelling that's involved, in addition to creating the illusion, was a gateway into an understanding of performance and precision in, in, in performance. And, and. But I, I found a love for acting at a very, very young age and then was fortunate to work pretty consistently over the years. I didn't have a big career for many years, but I, I was a working actor, and I have always been very grateful for that.

[Tonya Moseley]

12 years old is a remarkably young age to feel so directed and passionate in what you do. Were your parents leading you? Were you leading the charge? How did it come about that you, that you, you took this on at that age?

[H]

Yeah, I just, I just joked about it last night. I said, you know, acting, you know, beats working for a living. And, and, you know, it is very hard work, in all seriousness, but it is such a joy and it's always different. And I always had a very curious spirit. And that curiosity of my childhood lives on in me. And, you know, I grew up in New York City. I grew up in Queens. I took the train all the time. I had to take four trains each way to go to drama school. I got accepted to performing arts, and it was a public school, but it gave me wonderful foundation.

[Tonya Moseley]

It wasn't just a public school. You're talking about the school that the high school that the film Fame was based on. Right? That's where you went to high school?

[Sebastian Stan]

Yeah.

[H]

I mean, it's not. Yeah. It's not merely a public school, but it was a. It was, It's a remarkable school, but it was a public high school, meaning I was. By being selected and making it into the drama department. I was given four acting classes a day within the public school system, which is remarkable and was very helpful for me. But along the way, to get to school, I'd have to take the train. And I learned so much about character of, you know, witnessing characteristics and watching people. You name it. Yes, watching people.

[Tonya Moseley]

What was that first role? What were your roles when you were first starting out?

[H]

At 12, I was doing theater. I'd first done some work with Elizabeth Suedos at BAM at the Brooklyn Academy of Music, and I'd gotten an off Broadway play in the Lower east side that I, you know, take the train in from after junior high school and go to work and try not to get jumped in the East Village and, you know, go to work each day. And, you know, I loved it. I really. I really loved it. And at just turning 14 or, you know, just turned 14, I booked the lead role in a public television film. So I went off to Nebraska and shot a movie.

[Tonya Moseley]

You talk quite a bit about your mother and your father's influence. Your mother, this noted photographer, she used to be a staff photographer for the Village Voice. You say, like people will say to you, oh, you are the son of Sylvia, because she's so well respected and your father is an educator. But I'm curious, growing up, like, how did your mother's work and seeing her in her creativity maybe influence your thoughts on perceptions on what you could be? And had you thought about being anything else, was acting just like a foregone conclusion?

[H]

It's a lovely, lovely question. And, you know, my parents are a unit. You know, they've always stood together, an embrace of me and in nurturing me and my individuality and not suppressing my individuality and my rambunctious nature as a child and my enthusiasm and curiosity of the world, and they've only enhanced that. And my mother's work has been so influential on me as an artist. And my first of all, in me encountering acting is the result of her having an assignment to photograph the American Academy of Dramatic Arts, which preceded my education in performing arts when I started as a very young boy, because she had seen an acting. They had acting classes for children that were. She saw in me what all these kids were doing, and she had that intuition. So even just encountering it came as a result of her photographic work. But then I am also the son, only son of a photographer, so I am. I am very much a focal point in front of the lens that came from an artist's eye. And I also witnessed her imagery and her. Her immortalization of my city and the world through that very beautiful, specific lens since birth. And whereas I grew up with film everywhere in my home, negatives being hung from the showers and film canisters in the tub, and the smell of fixative in the dark room smelling like home and my mother and film test prints on record racks all strewn around the floor in front of the landing, in front of my. My bedroom. And so since I could crawl, I was seeing imagery everywhere and beautiful imagery, and I think that made art and its accessibility very tangible and available.

[David Bianculli]

Adrienne Brody, speaking to Tonya Mosley last month. This Sunday, he'll be competing for a Best Actor Oscar at the 97th Academy Awards, televised live by ABC. Coming up, another Oscar contender. It's a film from Latvia called Flow, nominated for both best Animated Feature and Best International. Film critic at large John Powers has a review. This is Fresh Air. Flow is an animated movie from Latvia that follows an unlikely collection of animals brought together by a massive flood that overwhelms the country. The film, which is now streaming on max, already won animation prizes from, among others, the Golden Globes, the New York Film Critics and the Los Angeles Film critics, and it's received Oscar nominations for both Best Animated Feature and Best International Film. Our critic at large John Powers says that Flow is quite simply wonderful.

[Adrien Brody]

Perhaps the most famous line in ancient Greek thought comes from the philosopher Heraclitus who said, you cannot step into the same river twice. That's because reality is not a static thing, but an ever changing flux. The fluidity of life runs through Flow. A marvelous animated movie from Latvia which has already been showered with acclaim. Directed by Gint Zobolodis, it takes a simple A sundry crew of animals get caught in a flood and without a single word being uttered, transports us into a radiant fantasy. At once fun and affecting. Flo made me think of everything from Spirited Away and the incredible journey to the story of Noah and the recent floods in North Carolina. Flo centers on a slate gray cat whose home is a big house in the forest surrounded by larger than life feline sculptures. It sleeps upstairs in a double bed whose emptiness offers our first inkling that there are no people about and indeed no humans will appear in the film. Instead, we follow this watchful, eloquent eyed loner as it prowls around and gets chased by a pack of dogs, a pursuit interrupted by a deluge that comes whooshing towards them. The water keeps rising higher and higher, and just as the cat is about to be washed away, it's able to jump on a sailboat occupied by, of all things, a capybara. Soon they're joined by a scene stealing lemur who has scavenged various human knick knacks. Like the mirror it keeps looking at itself in, it's like the opening of a joke. A cat, a capybara and a lemur walk into a bar. As the three float together on their small ark, they're joined by a golden retriever and a predatory secretary bird which boasts a crazy beautiful headdress of feathers and a body like an eagle's glued onto a heron's legs. This odd band of survivors seeks to ride out the flood, a dangerous enterprise that forces them to work together and leads them to rescue others in distress, even if they don't always want to. Silbolodus pays these animals the respect of observing them closely. He deftly captures the cat's yawns, the movements of the lemur's ringed tail as it's preening, and the amiable torpor of the capybara, a creature whose meme inducing cuteness was recently celebrated in the New Yorker by Gary Steingart. Foregoing all dialogue but using genuine animal sounds, Flo is a long way from Zootopia or Eddie Murphy's smart aleck donkey in Shrek. While it does humanize its characters a bit, my own beloved cat Nika would sooner drown than team up with a lemur. Flo captures the way animals behave in the wild, as in the ruthless fight for dominance between two secretary birds, which leaves one of them unable to fly. The movie weaves together bursts of adventure. Your heart may pound as the cat has to swim for dear life. With poetic moments of transcendence I won't spoil by describing Like Miyazaki, Zobo Lotus uses animation to conjure a big, thrilling world of imagination where too much American animation feels frantic. Desperate to keep our attention, Flow's images possess a kinetic elegance. They have the alluring immersiveness of a video game, complete, alas, with a few visual glitches you won't find in Pixar. Then again, this is not a big budget Hollywood project. It was made on the open source software Blender and cost just $3.7 million. To put this in perspective, that's less than 1/50 the budget of Inside Out 2 Flow is conceived as a universal story that weaves together magic and realism. While the cat and dogs could live in our own neighborhood, the rest of the cast comes from the likes of Latin America, Africa and Madagascar. There's even a whale from the briny deep that surges up almost biblically from the flood waters. This whale's appearance inland is one of the film's suggestions. Melancholy but never overt that the great flood we're seeing may be a product of climate change. Yet Flow is far from a political tract. Rather, it's a classic fable about learning to adapt to life's ever changing flow, no matter how dire things may sometimes get. And like most classic fables, it offers an enduring lesson. A group of creatures overcome their differences and learn to help one another. It's solidarity, not selfishness, that will save them.

[David Bianculli]

John Powers reviewed the animated film Flow, which is up for two Oscars and is now streaming on Max. On Monday's show how life can change in a second, the first film by Hanif Qureshi, 1985's My Beautiful Laundrette, starred Daniel Day Lewis, was directed by Stephen Frears and won Qureshi an Oscar for best screener play. In 2022, he fell, and when he regained consciousness, his limbs were paralyzed. He'll talk about life before and after the fall. I hope you can join us. FRESH air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Sam Brigger is our managing producer. Our senior producer today is Roberta Shorrock. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham, with additional engineering support by Joyce Lieberman, Julian Herzfeld and Diana Martinez. For Terry Gross and Tanya Moseley, I'm David Biancooli.

[H]

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[Sebastian Stan]

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[Tonya Moseley]

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[H]

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[Sebastian Stan]

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[Tonya Moseley]

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[Sebastian Stan]

So start supporting what you love [e-mail].

[Adrien Brody]

James Baldwin was an activist, an orator, a style icon. But on NPR's Book of the Day, we'll dissect the thing he was most known for, his writing. That last clause kind of reads like.

[Sebastian Stan]

A horror story, right?

[H]

There's something deeply, deeply ominous about the.

[Capella University]

Way that that opening paragraph closes.

[Adrien Brody]

Celebrate Black History Month with us as we examine some of his best works on NPR's Book of the Day podcast.

[Tonya Moseley]

It's Oscar season and we watched the.

[Sebastian Stan]

Nominated movies so you don't have to. We are making some bold predictions for Hollywood's biggest night, and we may help.

[Adrien Brody]

You win your Oscars pool. Listen to the Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast from NPR.