Fresh Air – "John Le Carré’s Son Revives His Late Dad's Spy"

Podcast: Fresh Air (WHYY / NPR)
Date: December 19, 2025
Host: Sam Brigger (interviewing Nick Harkaway)
Guest: Nick Harkaway (novelist, son of John le Carré/David Cornwell)
Episode Focus: The legacy of John le Carré and the return of George Smiley in Nick Harkaway’s new novel, "Carla’s Choice"

Episode Overview

This episode centers on Nick Harkaway (pen name of Nick Cornwell), acclaimed novelist and son of legendary British spy author John le Carré (David Cornwell), who has written a new George Smiley novel, "Carla’s Choice." Harkaway discusses the daunting challenge of reentering his father's fictional universe, the philosophical and emotional roots of the Smiley character, and the complex family dynamics that shaped both author and character. The conversation delves into intergenerational legacy, the craft of espionage writing, and the blurry boundary between fact and fiction in the world of spies and storytellers.

Key Topics & Highlights

Why Write a New George Smiley Novel?

• Family Obligation and Literary Estate (02:10)

  • Harkaway and his family grappled with how to keep le Carré’s legacy alive in a modern publishing landscape, concluding a new Smiley book would revitalize interest.
  • Quote:
    "I had a list in my head of people who would be amazing at writing a George Smiley novel. And I had decided I wasn't going to suggest I should do it... all these things became the reasons why I would."
    — Nick Harkaway (03:17)

• The Challenge and the Draw (03:44)

  • Harkaway describes the project as simultaneously terrifying and irresistible, seeing it as a way to learn about his father’s art by stepping into his shoes.
  • Quote:
    "You don't do things that are safe, you do things that are scary... it also became something that I loved."
    — Nick Harkaway (03:52)
  • He saw the process as a form of "literary apprenticeship" with his father (04:18).

Understanding George Smiley

• Smiley as Non-Bondian Spy (05:23)

  • Harkaway contrasts Smiley with the glamorous world of James Bond, framing his father’s character as an antidote to the action-hero cliché.
  • Quote:
    "It wasn't these sort of incredibly energetic, combat oriented people, you know, sort of flawless heroes. It was ordinary people doing a hard, endless, possibly slightly futile thing and banging up against their own flaws."
    — Nick Harkaway (05:46)

• Reading from "Carla’s Choice" (07:15–08:29)

  • Harkaway narrates a scene describing Smiley’s psychological transformation as he returns to espionage after retirement.
  • Memorable Passage:
    "For Smiley, the experience of returning to the circus that evening was like a willed drowning... he found that he was once again engaging in the exercise of paranoia which had governed his former life..." (07:15)

• Paranoia as Professional Virtue (08:41)

  • Harkaway explains that being a spy is about embracing fear and paranoia in a professional way, always thinking the unthinkable.
  • Example of spy training: even learning to use local toilets to avoid exposure (10:37).

Rehabilitating Anne Smiley & Complexity of Relationships

• Reexamining Anne Smiley (11:54)

  • Harkaway aims to lend depth and ambiguity to Anne, Smiley’s oft-maligned wife, making the Smiley marriage more tragic and mysterious.
  • Quote:
    "The more you learn about people, the less you know, the more there is to know. And so with Anne and with George... they have a relationship which by any measure ought to work, and yet it doesn't."
    — Nick Harkaway (12:31)

• Autobiographical and Psychological Roots (13:44)

  • Harkaway connects le Carré’s distant or absent female characters to his father’s own childhood trauma, especially maternal abandonment and a monstrous father.

Emulating Le Carré's Literary Style

• How to Sound Like Le Carré (15:24)

  • Harkaway discusses adapting his sentence structure to echo his father’s varying styles across decades.
  • Points out that his own more playful prose, in previous books, was partly an attempt to differentiate himself from his father (15:24).
  • Quote:
    "When I came to write this and I thought, I gotta turn the dial a little bit towards dad. It was 1%, one notch. And suddenly it was there."
    — Nick Harkaway (17:45)

• Growing Up Surrounded by Literary Creation (17:56)

  • Early exposure: listening to le Carré read fresh pages at breakfast, watching "scissors and a stapler" editing process (16:45).

Life as John le Carré’s Son

• Unusual Childhood (18:28)

  • Harkaway recalls a mix of rural isolation (growing up on the Cornish cliffs) and sudden visits from important or glamorous guests.
  • "I dreamed Lord of the Rings dreams... And then every so often the house would fill up with people... publishers... politicians... fascinating." (19:07)

• The Logic of Pen Names (22:56)

  • Chose "Nick Harkaway" for practicality (to avoid confusion with "Cornwell" authors), modest anonymity, and as a literary shield.
  • The choice was serendipitous:
    "I went to Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable, and I literally let it flop open and stuck pins in the words... Hawkaway was the last one."
    — Nick Harkaway (24:11)

Le Carré’s Troubled Family History

• The Ronnie Cornwell Legacy (26:09)
  • Harkaway describes his grandfather Ronnie as a "con man" and "walking trauma with a shiny smile," and recounts how le Carré’s childhood was destabilized by constant crisis and deceit.
  • Quote:
    "Even the people he worst misused were pleased to see him when he turned up again... because he was charming and he made everybody feel good."
    — Nick Harkaway (27:05)
  • The expectation that le Carré and his brother would serve as "doorways" for Ronnie’s cons (28:09).

Lying, Storytelling, and Public School

• Le Carré on Deception (30:59)

  • Archival clip (from The Pigeon Tunnel):
    "Life was a stage where pretense was everything... Being offstage was boring and risk was attractive."
  • He learned to "join" rather than be a dupe, crafting stories as emotional currency (33:14).
  • Quote:
    "Stories were the currency around our table when I was growing up... we traded stories as emotional currency as a way of re-establishing contact and closeness."
    — Nick Harkaway (33:28)

• The Art of Deceit in British Education (35:19)

  • Harkaway recounts a teacher training students to convincingly answer questions they didn't know, as a life skill.
  • Quote:
    "You are not leaving this building unable to counterfeit an answer."
    — Nick Harkaway's teacher (35:25)

Parental Legacy, Grief, and Writing

• Being Haunted by—and At Peace With—His Father (38:44)
  • Expected to feel haunted while writing "Carla’s Choice," but instead felt companionship, albeit sometimes overwhelmingly intense.
  • Quote:
    “What I got instead was the companionship of occupying the space that he occupied… There is a kind of unity that I get from that, which is incredibly emotionally powerful.”
    — Nick Harkaway (39:09)
  • Moving story of making sure his brother could see their father before he died, reflecting on unfinished family business (39:45).

Letters and Emotional Inheritance

• Le Carré’s Letter to Nick on His 21st Birthday (43:52)
  • Le Carré:
    "I hope it [the candlestick] will remind you that you are a good man when you need reminding and your own man and no one else’s, and that you have one life only and no candle ever got longer, and that you have a great spirit and a lot to do."
  • Harkaway treasures the candlestick, combining emotional British tradition with expressive, cosmopolitan values (45:07).

Unexpected Jobs, Humor, and Ms. Lala

• Lingerie Catalog Copywriting (46:57)
  • Harkaway describes writing in the playful, tongue-in-cheek voice of "Ms. Lala," designed to convey not erotic detail but a celebration of joy, beauty, and life’s ridiculousness.
  • Quote:
    "It was less about describing the number of clips and buttons and how frightfully erotic the whole thing is, and more about expressing a kind of massive joy in the ridiculousness and the beauty and the preposterousness of the whole thing..."
    — Nick Harkaway (47:36)
  • Playful imitation of Ms. Lala’s voice—“Oh, my darlings, you need to understand the sheer iridescent beauty of this piece...”

Key Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 03:17 | Harkaway | "All these things became the reasons why I would." | | 03:52 | Harkaway | "You don't do things that are safe, you do things that are scary." | | 05:46 | Harkaway | "Ordinary people doing a hard, endless, possibly slightly futile thing and banging up against their own flaws." | | 07:15 | Harkaway | Reading from the novel: "For Smiley, the experience of returning to the circus... was like a willed drowning..." | | 12:31 | Harkaway | "The more you learn about people, the less you know, the more there is to know." | | 17:45 | Harkaway | "When I came to write this... it was 1%, one notch. And suddenly it was there." | | 27:05 | Harkaway | “Even the people he worst misused were pleased to see him when he turned up again...” | | 35:25 | Harkaway (teacher) | “You are not leaving this building unable to counterfeit an answer.” | | 39:09 | Harkaway | “The companionship of occupying the space that he occupied… a kind of unity... emotionally powerful.” | | 43:52 | Le Carré (letter) | “...you are a good man when you need reminding and your own man and no one else's…” | | 47:36 | Harkaway | "It was... about expressing a kind of massive joy in the ridiculousness and the beauty and the preposterousness..." |

Useful Timestamps for Major Segments

• [02:04]–[04:46]: Harkaway on the decision to write the book and family dynamics
• [05:23]–[06:34]: The character and origins of George Smiley
• [07:15]–[08:29]: Harkaway reads a pivotal passage from "Carla’s Choice"
• [11:54]–[13:44]: Anne Smiley, marriages and relationships in the le Carré canon
• [15:24]–[17:56]: Adapting le Carré’s literary style and growing up in a writer’s household
• [18:28]–[20:14]: Life as a famous writer’s child
• [22:56]–[25:13]: On pen names and literary identity
• [26:09]–[28:09]: The impact of Ronnie Cornwell (le Carré’s father) and family trauma
• [30:59]–[32:27]: Le Carré on lying, deceit, and storytelling (archival audio)
• [33:28]–[36:30]: Family storytelling, school, and the art of improvising answers
• [38:44]–[41:26]: Loss, grief, and navigating parental legacy
• [43:52]–[45:29]: Le Carré’s letter and passing emotional inheritance
• [46:57]–[49:26]: The lingerie catalog job and humor

Tone and Style

The conversation is warm, literary, philosophical, and sometimes irreverent. Harkaway exudes wit and intellectual curiosity, openly acknowledging familial burdens and joys. There’s a satisfying blend of personal anecdote, craft insights, and self-deprecating humor, balanced by candid discussion of trauma and generational legacy.

For Listeners

If you've never read a George Smiley novel, this episode offers fascinating insight into why he's an antidote to the James Bond archetype—unguarded, cerebral, and profoundly human. If you’re a le Carré fan, Harkaway’s reflections on legacy, writing, and family provide an intimate look behind the scenes of literary continuity. For aspiring writers or lovers of fiction, the episode is full of craft wisdom—on style, character, and inheriting traditions with both reverence and innovation.