Loading summary
Transcript144 lines
- [00:01]
Misty Copeland
This message comes from Sony Pictures Classics.
- [00:03]
Tonya Moseley
With Nuremberg, the Allies seek justice for the Holocaust. The chief prosecutor leads the trial of.
- [00:09]
Misty Copeland
The century while a U.S. army psychiatrist.
- [00:12]
Tonya Moseley
Battles Hermann Guring's mind. Nuremberg starts Friday, only in theaters. This is FRESH air. I'm Tanya Moseley. When Misty Copeland stepped onto the stage at Lincoln center, golden confetti rained down as she took her final bow with American Ballet Theater. After years away from performing, she returned to dance Juliet one last time and spin through Twyla Tharpe's Sinatra Suite, closing a chapter that began over two decades ago. It was a farewell to a company where she made history as the first black woman promoted to principal dancer in ABT's history. By ballet standards, Copeland came to the art form late. At 13 years old, it was the culmination of a journey that began not in a traditional ballet academy, but in a Boys and Girls Club gym where a shy teenager first discovered what her body could say through movement. Copeland rose through ABT's ranks to dance the roles that define classical ballet, Odette, Odile in Swan Lake, Juliet in Romeo and Juliet and the title role in Firebird. But her impact extends far beyond technique and tradition. As a bestselling author, film producer and founder of the Misty Copeland foundation, her goal is to build pathways for children who've never seen themselves reflected on the ballet stage. Now, as Copeland steps away from abt, she's turning her focus from performance to transformation, working to remake an art form that has for centuries defined beauty through exclusion. Misty Copeland, welcome back to FRESH air. And it's a pleasure to have you as you enter this new chapter in your life.
- [01:52]
Misty Copeland
Thank you. I'm excited to be here.
- [01:55]
Tonya Moseley
You never wanted a farewell performance, but you got one. I mean, there's a 15 minute standing ovation. How are you feeling now that it's over?
- [02:06]
Misty Copeland
Yeah, it's so interesting to just kind of process all that I'm feeling. I actually feel very calm and low. I don't know if that makes any sense. And it's a reminder, too, of kind of all the stages of recovery after performance that I feel like I forgot because it's been years. One of my favorite things about, you know, what I do, of course, is going on stage. But then there's something so special that happens after the fact, you know, of kind of coming down and letting your body really feel all that you put into it to get to that point and then just being grateful for it after. And I'm trying to let myself enjoy this kind of recovery process before I start to feel normal again, because this.
- [03:01]
Tonya Moseley
Was quite a ramp up. I mean, you had been gone for five years. How long were you practicing to prepare yourself for this actual performance?
- [03:09]
Misty Copeland
Yeah, it's been over five years. I think the last time I was actually performing on stage with American Ballet Theater was December of 2019, and I started preparing October of last year. So it was a very gentle preparation towards the end of the year, like October through the end of the year, and then come January, I really started to really hone in on the ballet aspect of things, because before it was really just getting my body back in some sort of shape because I really wasn't doing anything. Over the last five years, no dancing?
- [03:41]
Tonya Moseley
No dancing. No dancing at all?
- [03:43]
Misty Copeland
No. And not a lot of physical activity either. I really needed a break. And, you know, injuries. I don't really count injuries as breaks, but, you know, I really hadn't stopped dancing since I started at 13. And, you know, have always been very physical and was just kind of at a breaking point at the beginning of 2020, when I just felt like I needed to pause and really figure out what was going to make me feel fulfilled and good about using all that I've built, you know, my voice and my platform and my reach.
- [04:23]
Tonya Moseley
How did you approach that time period, the things that you wanted to do, the insights you wanted to discover about yourself, stepping away from ballet?
- [04:32]
Misty Copeland
Mm. I've always just really listened to myself and my instincts and my gut and, you know, about what felt real and authentic to me, which is why I stepped away when I did, because it was no longer feeding, I guess, a part of myself that felt necessary. I've never been someone that has kind of fed off of the. The accolades or the applause. You know, I love being in the studio, I love being on the stage, but bows have never been my favorite thing to do. And.
- [05:13]
Tonya Moseley
Yeah, why do I think that is? Because that's where you get all of the response to all of the work that you've put in. Folks are standing, they're clapping for you, they're just giving you their flowers, literally.
- [05:24]
Misty Copeland
Right? Yeah. I don't know. It's hard for me to, like, accept, I guess. I know it sounds so counter to what I do, but I've just never been someone that really enjoys being in the spotlight again. I enjoy the work and I love being on stage. And there's. I've always felt very protected when I was on stage. You know, this is something as a child and from my upbringing that being in a studio and being on stage was the first time that I felt safe in my young life, and I still feel a sense of that when I'm on stage. So for me, it's never been kind of this outward thing, you know, the reason I agreed to having the farewell performance was because I wanted to say thank you. I wanted to say thank you for the dance community, the black community, all the people that have spent their hard earned money and flown from their hometowns and come to support me. And I understand, like, what I represent. I understand all of that. So, like, yes, I had to get back up on that stage because what I represent is something far bigger than me. And I've always known that. It's just. It can be a lot. It can be really overwhelming, and I've kind of carried that for the last 25 years and. But, yes, I am so grateful and thankful to everyone who has built me up and poured into me and invested in me in ballet and in dance and hopefully will continue far beyond me.
- [06:53]
Tonya Moseley
You know, Misty, you always seem so composed, and I got to watch the standing ovation at the end, the 15 minutes. But in that moment, you were also dealing with a hip injury.
- [07:07]
Misty Copeland
Yeah.
- [07:08]
Tonya Moseley
You were in a lot of pain.
- [07:11]
Misty Copeland
Yeah. I think it's just a part of what we are used to dealing with as performers and as dancers. And so it just kind of comes with the territory. But it's so fascinating. You know, I've been just kind of very reflective over the last couple of months and especially over the last couple of days, and just thinking about how whenever I have these, like, monumental moments, there seems to be an injury that comes with it, with all of them. And I was having this conversation with my husband about it and trying to kind of decipher, you know, what pushes me. And it's like, if I didn't have these injuries, I wonder how I would be. I wonder where the drive or fire, you know, if that would be coming from somewhere else. But there's always some kind of obstacle that I have to overcome to get to these, you know, to the stage or to these roles. Even in my last performance with abt, I was barely walking before and somehow, you know, muster up the.
- [08:26]
Tonya Moseley
You were barely walking before you got up on stage?
- [08:28]
Misty Copeland
Yes. I mean, I found out in preparation for the performance. Performance that I have bone spurs in my left hip and a labral tear and loss of cartilage. And my doctors, you know, they were just like, I don't think this is a good idea for you to push for this performance. And I said, well, I've already Agreed to it, and I'm definitely not gonna wait any longer to get back on that stage. So what can we do to make it happen without further injuring my hips? So it's been a journey, and I've been really good about pacing myself and in good health. And then, you know, about a month before, a couple weeks out, I think my hip was just like, I can't tolerate anymore. And it just got worse the closer I got to the performance. And I actually was canceling rehearsals and pulling back on training up until the show because I was just, you know, trying to reserve my hip for performance.
- [09:27]
Tonya Moseley
Oh, Misty. Every time I think about you, I think about the pain that you endure. I mean, all ballerinas to a certain extent, but yours, you've been so open about it. You've documented it. When did you first begin to understand maybe your relationship to pain, to control it rather than to let it control you?
- [09:48]
Misty Copeland
Hmm. I think that's something I learned as a child. So many things in my childhood, I feel like, really, whether they're good or bad, they prepared me to be in this position. You know, I think about just always feeling uncomfortable, whether it was in the. In the living circumstances that we were in, in my own skin, feeling so much shame around, like, you know, not often having a home or food on the table. And so I didn't keep friends close. Like, I just felt like I was never comfortable and was always kind of dealing with that, navigating, but, like, keeping a happy face on the outside. Like, I was. You know, I think anyone who knew me would say, like, she was very quiet, but she was always very happy. And, you know, I had severe migraines growing up, and I remember I would have to leave school early sometimes, like, to the point of vomiting, and it was just, like, all this stress that I held inside, but somehow was able to still remain, like, very pleasant on the outside. I think also, just watching my mom navigate life and raising six children on her own and dealing with, you know, a lot. And so I feel like my relationship with pain, yeah, it started very early. Like, I can remember, like, seven years old, probably. And so coming into the dance world and experiencing just the. I mean, leaving injury out of it, just the pain of what it takes to train in ballet and be an athlete, the mental strength, all of that, I think, was very innate, very natural for me.
- [11:26]
Tonya Moseley
You revealed to us some years ago that you've been painting your own pointe shoes for years to match your skin tone. And now folks can find various different skin tones with pointe shoes and with the tights and everything. But can you take us back to when you first started doing this? When you were doing it in those early days? How were you actually doing it? What were you even using to make them?
- [11:54]
Misty Copeland
Yeah, I think the first time I ever did it, I must have been 14, performing with Debbie Allen in California, in Los Angeles. She's a mentor of mine in her version of the Nutcracker, which at the time, she was calling the Chocolate Nutcracker. And that was the very first time that I was understanding what the ballet shoe even represents and what the tights mean. And it's an extension of yourself and your skin, and it should be the same color. I was wearing brown tights then and painting my shoes, but I would continue to do that throughout the course of my career at abt, and I would just go to the drugstore and get whatever the cheapest liquid foundation and put it on my shoes. I mean, it's not meant to be danced, and it doesn't have the right, like, ingredients and consistency. It's going to be very slippery. But it's the first thing that a young dancer receives as their, you know, their leotard, their ballet slippers and their tights. And that's just right there, saying, for a black or brown dancer, this isn't for you. You don't belong.
- [13:00]
Tonya Moseley
Was there ever pushback when you started doing that in the beginning? Did anyone tell you it was wrong?
- [13:05]
Misty Copeland
No. You know, I definitely knew that there were certain roles I couldn't do that in. So if I was doing a more contemporary role, modern, then I would wear my skin color shoes. But the conversation has now evolved. Well, what classical works can we allow for dancers of color to wear their skin color in? And so every company, you know, has kind of come up with their own set of rules, I guess, because we're kind of just, you know, making it up as we go along, because it's just. It's always been this way, that when you do a classical work, everyone wears pink tights and pink shoes. And so I know at abt, they've evolved. With I know Giselle, they allow for the corps de ballet dancers now to all wear their own skin color. I believe in Swan Lake, they still wear pink, but, you know, this is an ongoing kind of learning, evolving thing. And the fact that we're even at this point and companies are having the conversation is huge.
- [14:10]
Tonya Moseley
I want to ask you about something that you also talk about quite a bit, but I've always been sort of curious about. You don't wear Pads in your pointe shoes. I mean, that's something that's pretty famous. People know this about you. Most ballerinas do, though, because even with pads, the pain can be excruciating. Why no pads?
- [14:30]
Misty Copeland
Well, when I started dancing, I wore lambswool or whatever kind of padding is what you put in your shoes. That was with my first ballet teacher when I moved to my second ballet school, where I was training. I think I was about 15 when I moved to that school. She didn't allow for us to wear anything in her shoes. She said she could see the loss of the articulation in the toes. Like when you have something between your foot and the shoe that you don't have as much control. And I remember just being so terrified of her because she could tell if I snuck a little bit of tissue or anything in my shoe, I would go up on point, and she would say, misty, there's something in your shoe. And I'm like, how does she know? She must be a witch. But, you know, I'm very grateful for the. And I agree wholeheartedly at this point, but preparing for this performance after having five years off and losing all of my calluses, I had to put something over my toes. It wasn't a pad. I mean, I was wearing, like, a thin paper towel because I didn't have enough time to really build up all of the calluses that I had lost over a lifetime of training by not being in pointe shoes. But it definitely makes a difference.
- [15:41]
Tonya Moseley
I need to know. You mentioned your son. How does childbirth compare to the kind of pain that you've experienced, that physical pain from injuries?
- [15:53]
Misty Copeland
You know, I couldn't have felt more prepared for labor, you know, by being a ballerina, I felt so completely emotionally, mentally, and physically prepared to give birth. And I still don't think that anything compares to Swan Lake, really.
- [16:13]
Tonya Moseley
Oh, my. Okay, so wait. Ms. Copeland is saying Swan Lake is harder on your body than childbirth?
- [16:20]
Misty Copeland
Oh, my gosh. And I know everyone has very different experiences with childbirth, and there's no way to know what someone else feels. You know, I really enjoyed giving birth to my son. Like, yes, it was difficult. There were some complications that happened. I almost had a cesarean, but my doctor pushed for me not to do it, and I ended up giving birth without any pain medication in the end. But there was some. Something that was so familiar to me that I just kind of walked into, and it was like, oh, I know. This feeling of preparation, of mental preparation and kind of preparing yourself for the pain and breathing through the Pain and just staying as calm as possible. That it was so interesting because I hadn't been on stage, you know, in some years and I felt like I was preparing for a performance. And when I gave birth to my son, I looked at my husband, I said, I want to do that again. And he was like, you're crazy.
- [17:21]
Tonya Moseley
What was it like to see your 3 year old son Jackson? He walks out with his little tuxedo to give you flowers. And three year olds, they're just so precocious. They say like the most amazing things. What has he said about that moment?
- [17:36]
Misty Copeland
Oh, my gosh. I had no idea how he was going to respond. I mean, it can be really overwhelming or scary. And when I saw Jackson walking towards me and he wasn't holding Olu's hand, I kind of screamed to Olu, why aren't you holding his hand? He said he wouldn't let me. He wanted to do this on his own and it was just so beautiful. And I knelt down and I hugged him and he pulled this little figurine like a dog out of his pocket and he just goes, here, mama, this is for you. And so I was like holding this little dog in my hand, trying to bow. But he was just so excited. He was waving at the audience and he felt so confident and comfortable and I was like, wow. And I saw a change in him the next day. I mean, I feel like he's a different boy now, but I'm just so grateful that he experienced seeing me perform. Live. Well, perform for the first time. He'd never seen me dance, so I.
- [18:30]
Tonya Moseley
Not in any way.
- [18:31]
Misty Copeland
No recordings. Well, he's seen me dance with like Elmo on YouTube, but it was really, really, really special. And he just seemed like he grew up and. And you know, I was like, a star is born.
- [18:48]
Tonya Moseley
I'm sure your body changed after having a baby. What has your relationship been with your body now that that change has happened and there's no going back after that. There's only just working with what you have.
- [19:05]
Misty Copeland
It's a beautiful thing, you know, to be able to see your body change, to acknowledge that it's changed and that it's different and that you value movement in a different way. I love a challenge and so I love the fact that I get to experience this incredible technique of classical ballet. But it's as if I've been reborn and I have a new body to try it through, which is so cool, you know, that I can focus on different things because my body can't do the things that it wants did you know, it's like learning it again. It's like learning to dance again. It's learning the ballet technique again. And it keeps things fresh and exciting and it's challenging.
- [19:55]
Tonya Moseley
Were there moments where you're just frustrated with your body? You're like, I could do that.
- [19:58]
Misty Copeland
I used to do this. I think one of the most frustrating is the loss of flexibility in my back, which I had heard, you know, seeing all the ballerinas go through ABT and have babies and come back and just say it's never gonna be the same. Like the back is that like I just can't get it to do what it used to do. Yeah. It's a strange feeling to look back at your leg and you're like, where is it? Why isn't it up next to my ear anymore?
- [20:26]
Tonya Moseley
Our guest today is Misty Copeland, the trailblazing ballerina who became the first black woman promoted to principal dancer in American Ballet Theater's 85 year history. She performed her farewell with ABT at a star studded gala at Lincoln center on October 22nd. I'm Tonya Moseley and this is Friday Fresh Air. This message comes from Capital One. Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts.
- [20:55]
Misty Copeland
What's in your wallet? Terms apply.
- [20:57]
Tonya Moseley
See capitalone.combank for details.
- [21:00]
Misty Copeland
Capital One NA Member FDIC.
- [21:03]
Tonya Moseley
This message comes from the International Rescue Committee. Co founded with help from Albert Einstein. The IRC has been providing humanitarian aid for more than 90 years. The IRC helps refugees whose lives are disrupted by conflict and disaster, supporting recovery efforts and responding within 72 hours of crisis. Donate today by visiting rescue.org rebuild. You know, Misty, many people who are first there is a burden that you carry sometimes with pride that you're undergoing all of this mental and physical pain of being the first so that those who come after you don't have to experience that. You say, like, I'm gonna carry this burden and deal with all that comes with it. But then you find the Raven Wilkinsons of the world, a black woman in ballet from the 1950s decades before you. And then you realize, oh, there were several, maybe even mini firsts, but they were intentionally erased. Did you ever at any point feel angry about that because you're so poised in talking about it in such a beautiful way that allows everyone into the conversation? But was there ever a moment where you're just like, what the heck, you know?
- [22:19]
Misty Copeland
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. It was, you know, a combination of feelings. I think in particular you know, with Raven Wilkinson's story and finding out about her, yeah, there was this sense of regret that maybe had I known of her story sooner, I would just have a different sense of myself. But I guess I'm just not someone that kind of, like, wallows in that space that I feel the anger. And then it's like, how can I use this and channel it to do something? And so, yeah, it went from anger to curiosity of, you know, well, how can I find out about more and how can I share those stories? You know, there's a black dance community. There's a, you know, a strong Black ballet dance community. And it's, you know, the Virginia Johnsons and the Alicia Graf, Max and Lauren Anderson and Desmond Richardson. There are people that I have been able to call on throughout my career, even just to fill in the gaps of, like, people who have come before me that have kind of made me feel more whole. And, you know, I think something that I've been so drawn to about ballet is that I could be a part of something that's bigger than me and that I could be a part of this legacy. But then to find out that there's a Black ballet history is, like, you know, even more so, you know, feeling like I'm healing and becoming this even more of a whole person. And it's just been so important that I'm finding ways to document our history as Black dancers through my books. I mean, that's really at the core of so many of my books and the stories that I'm telling as I'm finding ways to create our own history books and that the next generation can pick it up and learn something about themselves and their history.
- [24:25]
Tonya Moseley
Is it true that your mother also studied dance when she was young?
- [24:30]
Misty Copeland
Yes. Yeah. My mom loves dance, and not on a professional level by any means, but, you know, she did ballet and tap and jazz growing up, and then she was a professional cheerleader for the Kansas City Chiefs football team. And that was just a part of our household. Like, there was always music, and she was always moving. She would choreograph things for me and my siblings, like, for different talent shows when we were younger. But music was, like, the one constant in our household and in my life that I'm so grateful to her for, because I feel like it's what brought me to dance. It's what allowed me to start to develop my voice and opinion. But, yeah, she's a lover of movement and music.
- [25:18]
Tonya Moseley
Most of us go through a stage of rebellion when we're coming of age. And I was curious, what did your rebellion look like?
- [25:28]
Misty Copeland
I would say I was probably 19 years old. I would say between, like, 19 and 21 were those years of trying to understand and find myself and connect with other people that were like me. And it definitely came out in what I was eating. I think it ended up hurting me because I wasn't taking care of myself. But it was like, I didn't know how else to express myself and not feel like I was just like another peg, you know, in the system of ABT or, I don't know, just trying to find my voice. And so I was really, you know, pushing back against, you know, being the only. And I remember eating a lot of Krispy Kreme doughnuts. I remember going out dancing, going out to the club, you know, just like, really in search of myself. But I don't regret that time at all because I definitely found myself. I found my husband. I found so many incredible friends and artists and people that I feel like a lot of dancers, you get kind of stuck in this ballet bubble and, you know, like, you can't do this, you can't do that. And then you never really kind of grow into a person and an individual, and you're kind of just like, stunted by this ballet bubble. And I was like, I'm in New York City. I'm in one of the most incredible, diverse cities with artists, and yet I'm spending my days from, you know, nine to seven in a studio, and I'm the only black person. Like, this is crazy. Like, I need to be out in the world and experiencing life. And so I was. Yeah, I was going out and meeting people and exploring and seeing art, but I wasn't getting enough sleep, and I was eating poorly and gaining weight and all the things I was rebelling.
- [27:35]
Tonya Moseley
What changed? What was the thing that made you realize, like, I'm doing this because I want to do it? And now it doesn't feel so great.
- [27:44]
Misty Copeland
It was meeting my husband, Olu, and I met when I was just 21. Out at a club.
- [27:51]
Tonya Moseley
Yeah, yeah.
- [27:52]
Misty Copeland
And it was meeting him and I guess someone who just seemed so steady and grounded and had such a clear sense of self, even though he was. I don't know, he was 26, I think, at the time when we met. You know, I didn't grow up really understanding how to take care of my body. Like, I stumbled into ballet and happened to be good at it, and then I became a professional within four years. Everything happened really quickly, and I didn't feel like I had a really good base in terms of, like, just how to take care of myself as an athlete and treat my body with respect and fuel it. And he completely changed my mindset. You know, he was a former athlete. He played basketball, but he was raised vegetarian and just had just such a very, like, holistic approach to how he took care of himself. And I trusted him. And he just completely changed the way that I looked at myself as an athlete and as an artist and that it wasn't just something I was doing and I was good at it. But, like, I have to invest the same way I do in my training in these other aspects of myself and how I'm preparing.
- [29:03]
Tonya Moseley
Let's take a short break. If you're just joining us, my guest is Misty Copeland, the groundbreaking ballerina who recently retired from the American Ballet Theater. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is FRESH air. On the Throughline podcast from npr, the story of the undersea cables that run the Internet. Other historians have compared it to the.
- [29:26]
Misty Copeland
Apollo missions of going to the moon.
- [29:29]
Tonya Moseley
Listen to Throughline in the NPR app.
- [29:32]
Misty Copeland
Or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [29:38]
Tonya Moseley
This message is sponsored by dsw, the.
- [29:41]
Narrator/Announcer
Birthplace of the humble brat full of.
- [29:44]
Tonya Moseley
All kinds of shoes that get you at prices that get your budget. And when there are never ending options for every style, mood, occasion and budget, there is unlimited freedom to play. And that's something to brag about. So go ahead, stock up on fresh sneakers from your favorite brands or try those boots you always secretly knew you could pull off. Find the shoes that get you at prices that get your budget. DSWell, you let them surprise you. I'm Rachel Martin. If you're tired of small talk, check out the Wild Card podcast. I invite influential thinkers to open up about the big topics we all think about, but rarely talk about. Tune in this fall to hear Mel Robbins, Malala Yousafzai and Brene Brown talk about everything from grief and God to ambition and forgiveness. Watch or listen on the NPR app, YouTube or wherever you get your podcast. I want to ask you just a few questions about your relationship with Prince because it was a pretty defining time period in your life. You guys worked together for about six years on and off.
- [30:47]
Misty Copeland
Yeah, you know, he definitely came into my life. You know, I guess it was in that same time when I was when I discovered Raven and was really Raven Wilkinson. Raven Wilkinson, yes. And was trying to understand how I can be my fullest and best self, how I can carry on these legacies of people who have come before me. And it was Just pretty surprising to find out that Prince was a fan and that he had actually followed my career since I was very young and had a vision for me to be in a music video of his and spent a year trying to find me. I still don't really understand that story. I know.
- [31:36]
Tonya Moseley
Where was he looking?
- [31:39]
Misty Copeland
I don't know. I don't know. He says he reached out to abt many times, and I was never given the message. Maybe they didn't believe it was him. I don't know. But, you know, when we finally did connect, it just. It just made sense, you know, for him to come into my life. At that time, he was my biggest supporter. He showed me what it was to be one of a kind, to be unique, to be proud, to stand in his uniqueness and to use that as a power. And I think, whereas before, I felt, you know, like, isolated and alone, being the only. And he really saw it as the opposite. He's like, you have such an advantage. He's like, you're the only brown girl out there. Everyone's gonna look at you now. What are you gonna do? And then, you know, and then just exploring my artistry by working with him, I think made me grow in leaps and bounds as a dancer, you know, Though I wasn't doing classical works with him, he really challenged me to improvise, to be in the moment on the stages that he performed in. And it really broadened my audience and appeal and brought people to. Had not been before, and being able to show a whole new audience, maybe that had never seen ballet before. Me dancing on pointe on top of his piano was an incredible opportunity that.
- [33:10]
Tonya Moseley
I mean, he definitely had a vision for you. And dancing on the piano, that seems like such a feat. I mean, stability in itself.
- [33:20]
Misty Copeland
You know, it's interesting when we first started working together, so the first time that I toured with him, traveling through France and dancing on different stages, and he just let me improvise. He would say, like, I'm gonna, you know, these songs you'll dance to tonight, and, you know, give you a cue to leave when it's time to go. And then as he was preparing for his welcome to America tour, he really included me in the whole preparation for it. I mean, I was there at Paisley park, and he was working around when I could perform with him when I wasn't performing with American Ballet Theatre. So we decided on one song, and it was the beautiful one. And then he had a whole idea for choreography. At the time, we were preparing to do Alexei Ratmansky's he was a choreographer ABT's Nutcracker. It was a new version that he was putting together. And so we would be performing it at the Brooklyn Academy of Music at bam. But we were rehearsing it at NJ Pack at the New Jersey Performing Arts Center. And so I would be with ABT all morning, all day, into the night, and rehearsing the Nutcracker until like 10pm and then Prince would come in a limo and pick me up from. From New Jersey and take me to either one of the theaters that we were performing at, or he would take me back to his hotel and we would have like a conference room. And I would be standing on the conference table using that as my piano. And we'd be working through the choreography until like two in the morning. And I'm like, prince, I've got to work in the morning, so I gotta go. You get to sleep in all day like the rock star you are. But it was very much this beautiful collaboration. And then to be able to perform that song with him, you know, night after night, was so incredibly special. And I feel like I just grew so much as an artist and just felt like I was very open from the time that I spent working with him.
- [35:11]
Tonya Moseley
You know, one of the things that I was curious about regarding Prince is that he had you in the video Crimson and Clover, and it's a remake. What did you think about that choice? And also in that video, you're sort of taking on a modern dance. It's not ballet.
- [35:29]
Misty Copeland
Yeah, I mean, I. I mean, I liked the song before Prince remade it. And so I was like, this is cool. This is. It also feels very different for him. And just listening to the lyrics, I thought it was like a really cool thing. Just because we didn't know each other. Like, we met on the set and.
- [35:51]
Tonya Moseley
There was no setup beforehand.
- [35:53]
Misty Copeland
I mean, we spoke on the phone, like, briefly. And then he asked me, he was like, are you interested? We could fly you out this weekend and shoot it. And so I did, but we met on the set and so it was just like this kind of tension, like we don't know each other. And so I thought that the lyrics and the. I don't know, it just kind of all worked and made sense. And he just sat right next to the camera guy filming it. He sat on a. What do you call it, an apple box with his camera and was just taking pictures of me throughout the whole shoot.
- [36:29]
Tonya Moseley
What did that feel like?
- [36:30]
Misty Copeland
That feels like a lot. Yeah. It was kind of strange, right? I mean, we would Chat in between takes. But I was just improvising. I had pointe shoes on, and I was just kind of making things up. And he didn't really give me much direction. He just was like, I just wanted you to be in it. Like, I envisioned you in this, and that was that. Yeah, I don't know. I thought the song made sense, especially for that time in our lives, like coming together and not really knowing each other and getting to know each other. I thought it was cool.
- [37:03]
Tonya Moseley
What meaning did you put to the song? What did it mean for you for that time period?
- [37:07]
Misty Copeland
He had said to me, you know, many times that, you know, he actually filmed the whole video with another dancer, and he was not satisfied. And so that's when he started to look for me again. But there's, like a line in the song that's like, I've been waiting to know her or something like that that I feel like just kind of sums up that time and that moment of just him really wanting me in his life and making that happen. And I think it changed my life in so many incredible ways. And so it was like, you know, meant, you know.
- [37:45]
Tonya Moseley
Misty, now that you've had that five years away and you're able to discover some things about yourself, is there anything specific that you have on your list that you want to do that you haven't done?
- [37:59]
Misty Copeland
There's so much. And I feel like I've never been someone that kind of, like, has a list or, like, I have to do this. I really try and let things play out and happen organically, and if it makes sense, then I'm like, okay, yes, this is what we're doing, you know, But I'm open, you know, I'm open to just creating and being able to be an artist in a different way now. Like, to have more say in the stories that I'm telling. I'm really looking forward to all of the projects that I have on the horizon with my production company, in collaboration with some incredible other producers. It just feels limitless right now. But I really. I want to stay true to myself and. And not just kind of be out there, just to be out there, but with intention and purpose.
- [38:45]
Tonya Moseley
Misty Copeland, this has been such a pleasure. Thank you so much.
- [38:49]
Misty Copeland
Thank you so much. Come on.
- [38:56]
Tonya Moseley
Misty Copeland gave her final bow with the American Ballet Theater last month. I don't have enough.
- [39:11]
Misty Copeland
But I think.
- [39:12]
Tonya Moseley
I could love her. I hope she won't settle over.
- [39:22]
Misty Copeland
I've been waiting to show her Crimson Cloud.
- [40:07]
Tonya Moseley
Coming up, TV critic David Bean Cooley reviews all her fault. The new Peacock miniseries starring Sarah Snook. This is FRESH Air.
- [40:18]
Narrator/Announcer
On this week's Books we've loved.
- [40:20]
Tonya Moseley
We're headed to the Open Range with Morning Edition's Michelle Martin to break down Charles Portis classic True Grit. Find books we've loved in NPR's book Book of the Day podcast feed on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [40:36]
Narrator/Announcer
Making time for the news is important, but when you need a break, we've got you covered on All Songs Considered. NPR's music podcast. Think of it like a music discovery show, a well deserved escape with friends and yeah, some serious music insight.
- [40:52]
Tonya Moseley
I'm gonna keep it real. I have no idea what this story is about.
- [40:55]
Narrator/Announcer
Hear new episodes of All Songs Considered every time Tuesday. Wherever you get podcasts, you care about.
- [41:00]
Misty Copeland
What'S happening in the world.
- [41:01]
Narrator/Announcer
Stay informed with NPR's State of the World podcast. In just a few minutes, we take.
- [41:07]
Misty Copeland
You to stories around the globe. You might hear the latest developments in.
- [41:11]
Narrator/Announcer
World conflicts or about what global events mean for the price of your coffee. Listen to the State of the World podcast from npr.
- [41:21]
Tonya Moseley
Sarah Snook, one of the stars of HBO succession, returns to television this week. She's the star of a new eight part miniseries called All Her Fault, based on a novel by Andrea Mara. The first four episodes drop all at once this Thursday on the Peacock streaming service. Our TV critic David Biancooley has this review.
- [41:44]
Narrator/Announcer
Sarah Snook has provided plenty of proof about how good an actress she is and attention has been paid. She won an Emmy Award for her role as Shiv Roy, one of the manipulative wealthy siblings on Success and won a Tony award for playing 26 different roles in her One Woman Broadway production of the Picture of Dorian Gray. In her new Peacock TV miniseries All Her Fault, she plays only one role, but right from the opening scene, it's a dramatic and challenging one and she pulls you right in. Snook plays Marissa Irvine, a wealthy wife with a five year old son. We meet her at the start of All Her Fault, running a seemingly mundane errand, picking up her son from an after school play date at the home of Jenny, one of the other classroom moms. Except when Marissa arrives at the address that Jenny had texted to her. The woman who lives there isn't Jenny and knows nothing about a play date or about Marissa's son Milo. Linda Cropper plays Esther, the helpful homeowner Sarah Snook as Marissa reads aloud from the text on her phone.
- [42:51]
Misty Copeland
The address is 1800 Crescent Hollow Road. If I'm not Home from work when you get there.
- [42:55]
Tonya Moseley
My. My nanny will be there with the boys.
- [42:58]
Misty Copeland
This isn't. Isn't 1800. It is, but there's no Milo here.
- [43:02]
Tonya Moseley
It's just me.
- [43:03]
Misty Copeland
All by my lonesome.
- [43:04]
Tonya Moseley
Who sent you the text?
- [43:06]
Misty Copeland
A mom from the school. Jenny.
- [43:09]
Tonya Moseley
Milo's on a playdate with her son, Jacob. And this.
- [43:12]
Misty Copeland
This is where I was supposed to pick him up. I'm not crazy, right? That. That's this address?
- [43:19]
Tonya Moseley
It is. Should you give her a call?
- [43:22]
Misty Copeland
Yeah.
- [43:23]
Tonya Moseley
Yeah. We're sorry.
- [43:29]
Misty Copeland
You have reached a number. It's not working. The number isn't working.
- [43:35]
Tonya Moseley
Come on in. We'll figure it out together.
- [43:39]
Misty Copeland
Thank you.
- [43:41]
Narrator/Announcer
From there, things escalate quickly and frighteningly. Milo has an electronic tracker in his backpack, but it's been disabled. When Marissa calls another parent at the school to confirm Jenny's phone number, she learns Milo couldn't be on a play date with Jacob because Jacob is with that other parent. And when Esther uses the correct phone number to call Jenny, who's played by Dakota Fanning, the news gets even worse. And in the space of a few moments, Marissa goes from calm to justifiably panicked.
- [44:12]
Tonya Moseley
Would you like me to call Jenny for you?
- [44:14]
Misty Copeland
Uh, yeah.
- [44:16]
Tonya Moseley
Yeah.
- [44:27]
Misty Copeland
Hello?
- [44:28]
Tonya Moseley
Hello, Jenny? You don't know me, but I'm here with your friend Marissa.
- [44:31]
Misty Copeland
Hi, this is Jenny. Yeah, is everything all right?
- [44:33]
Tonya Moseley
Well, Marissa thought her son was at your house today, but there seems to be some kind of confusion on that. Oh, no, I'm working tonight.
- [44:39]
Misty Copeland
Jacob's at Sarah Larson's. Their place.
- [44:42]
Tonya Moseley
So Milo isn't with you? No, he isn't. Okay, so you sent me a message.
- [44:48]
Misty Copeland
Hi. Hi, Marissa. No, I'm.
- [44:50]
Tonya Moseley
I'm so sorry, but I didn't. It's on my phone.
- [44:52]
Misty Copeland
I'm not crazy.
- [44:53]
Tonya Moseley
It's on my phone.
- [44:54]
Misty Copeland
You sent me a text.
- [44:55]
Tonya Moseley
I promise I didn't. Is Milo okay? I'm sure he's fine. We'll figure it out. Thank you, Jenny. Who sent me that text?
- [45:06]
Narrator/Announcer
The next call is to Marissa's husband, which goes straight to voicemail.
- [45:10]
Misty Copeland
You've reached Peter Irvine. Please leave a message.
- [45:12]
Tonya Moseley
Peter, can you call me back right now, please?
- [45:15]
Misty Copeland
Right.
- [45:16]
Tonya Moseley
Right now. That's your husband. Could he have picked up your son maybe forgetting to tell you? No, he doesn't do that.
- [45:23]
Narrator/Announcer
It's a.
- [45:24]
Tonya Moseley
It's her nanny or it's me.
- [45:25]
Misty Copeland
That he doesn't ever pick up Milo from school. Could your son still be at school?
- [45:29]
Tonya Moseley
No. No, it's past five. School is closed, so there's no way he could still be be there? No.
- [45:34]
Misty Copeland
They would have called me if no.
- [45:36]
Tonya Moseley
One picked him up. They would so someone has picked him.
- [45:42]
Misty Copeland
Up.
- [45:45]
Tonya Moseley
Who picked up my son from school?
- [45:48]
Narrator/Announcer
This is all before the opening credits. Megan Gallagher, who created and wrote the TV adaptation of Andrea Mara's novel, ramps the tension to a fever pitch at the very beginning, then follows the narrative in two directions at once. Part of All Her Fault moves forward day by day, tracking the events as the police work with the family to try to locate Milo. But an equal part of the story is told in flashback, revealing slowly and sometimes surprisingly, the mysterious pasts of many of the characters. There are lots of characters, and they're almost like a school of red herrings. At some point, it's fair to suspect all of them of something nefarious. The detective on the case, played by Michael Pena, has his hands full, but Pena is up to it, whether he's interacting with suspects in an interrogation room or playing with his own young son at home. Pena radiates sensitivity and weariness like Mark Ruffalo in Task. The rest of the exceptional performances are turned in by women. Dakota Fanning, as Jenny, becomes a key character. So does Abby Elliott from the Bear, who plays Marissa's sister in law. Her emotional range and rawness matches that of Sarah Snook, and the same can be said of Sophia Lillis, who plays a nanny who becomes increasingly central to the plot. The drama's focus on all these women is not coincidental. Told from their characters perspectives, their differing viewpoints and memories are crucial. So are the performances of the actresses who play them. The title All Her Fault turns out to be relative, depending upon which her in the story is being blamed, because eventually all of them are. But the women in front of and behind the camera in All Her Fault deserve nothing but credit. It's a thriller and a psychological drama that works so well, mostly because of the them.
- [47:47]
Tonya Moseley
David B. Reviewed the new Peacock series All Her Fault, tomorrow on Fresh Air. Journalist David Graham of the Atlantic on how the groundwork for next year's midterm elections is already being laid, from new voting restrictions to legal battles and political power plays. His latest piece, the Coming Election Mayhem, looks at what's ahead. I hope you can join us to keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews. Follow us on Instagram at NPRFreshAir. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our managing producer is Sam Brigger. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers. Anne Marie Baldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Challenge, Susan Nakunde and Anna Bauman. Our digital media producer is Molly CV Nesper. Our consulting visual producer is Hope Wilson. Roberta Shorrock directs the show with Terry Gross. I'm Tonya Moseley.
- [48:54]
Misty Copeland
Keeping up with the news can feel like a 24 hour job. Luckily, it is our job. Every hour on the NPR News now podcast, we take the latest, most important stories happening and we package package them into five minute episodes so you can easily squeeze them in between meetings and on your way to that thing. Listen to the NPR News now podcast now.
- [49:17]
Tonya Moseley
Instead of letting an algorithm throw mediocre podcast recommendations at you, Sign up for NPR's Pod Club newsletter. We comb through hours of audio to find the gems, the episodes that will make you gasp, cry or crack up in a public place. Then every week, we send those pics to your inbox and tell you why.
- [49:35]
Misty Copeland
They'Re worth your time. Subscribe now@npr.org podclub.