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- [00:01]
Ben Mankiewicz
This message comes from Talking Pictures, a podcast from TCM and Max about movies and memories hosted by Ben Mankiewicz. This season's guests include Bill Murray, Margot Robbie, Carol Burnett and more. Listen to Talking Pictures wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:18]
Terry Gross
This is FRESH air. I'm Terry Gross. Today we remember Quincy Jones. He died Sunday at the age of 91. In his new York Times obit, music critic Ben Ratliff described Jones as one of the most powerful forces popular music for more than a century. Jones started his career as a trumpeter in Lionel Hampton's big band in the early 50s, but he never became a noted instrumentalist. What made him famous and wealthy was his work as an arranger, composer and record producer, work that spans from the big bands through bebop pop, movie soundtracks, TV themes and hip hop. He arranged or produced recordings for Sinatra, Ray Charles, Aretha, Dinah Washington, George Benson and Ice T. And he produced the Michael Jackson albums Off the Wall Bad and the best selling album of all time, Thriller. His music has been sampled in many hip hop recordings, and his 1962 recording Soul Bossa Nova was used as the theme to the Austin Powers films. The multimedia company Quincy Jones Entertainment produced the sitcoms the Fresh Prince of Bel Air, in the House and the sketch show Mad TV. I spoke with him in 2001 after the release of his memoir Q, and a 4 CD box set by the same name of music, featuring him as a trumpeter, arranger, composer or producer. We started with a sampling of tracks from that collection, another Bride, Another June.
- [01:47]
Quincy Jones
Another sunny Honeymoon, Another season, Another reason for making Whoopi look at Me. I'm as helpless as a kitten of a tree and I feel like I'm clinging to a cloud I can't understand I get misty just holding your hand I never cared much for moonlit skies I never winked back at fireflies but now that the stars are in your eyes I'm beginning to see the light I never went in for afterglow Fly me to the moon Let me play among the stars and let me see what spring is like on a Jupiter and Mars in other words hold my hand in other words baby kiss me the fire's in their eyes and their words are really clear so faded but.
- [04:19]
Ben Mankiewicz
You want to be bad just be back Back on the block back, back.
- [04:30]
Quincy Jones
On the block Back on the block so we can rock with the soul rhythm blue been on the hill hop back on the block Back on the.
- [04:40]
Ben Mankiewicz
Block Iced tea let me kick my credentials a young player bread in South.
- [04:46]
Terry Gross
Central LA that's a sampling of music from the 4ct box set Q that was released at the same time as his memoir Q that was back in 2001. When I spoke with him. One of the first musicians he became good friends with was Ray Charles. They met when Charles was 16 and Jones was 14. I asked Quincy Jones how they met.
- [05:06]
Quincy Jones
I think it was at the Elks Club, Terry, where we used to, after we played two jobs we'd worked from 7 to 10, and the white tennis clubs where we'd play cup music of the popular music of the day, to each his Own and a room full of Roses. And then at 10 o'clock we'd go play the black clubs, the Black and Tan, the Rockin Chair and the Washington Educational and Social Club. And we'd play for strippers. And we sang.
- [05:35]
Unknown
Oh, really?
- [05:36]
Quincy Jones
We had choreography. We had everything. As kids we were pretty cocky because we had. We had a great band. We could read music very well and we did everything. It was a show band too, so we got most of the jobs that came around. It was nice. We played with Billie Holiday when we were in 48 behind her. And in 49 we played with Billy Eckstein and Cab Calloway and all the bands that came through. So we were pretty confident in those days. And the band just kept getting tidy because we rehearsed a lot.
- [06:13]
Unknown
You said that you admired Ray Charles independence. He was 16 years old, he was blind, but he had his own apartment. He got around town himself. He had a girlfriend. I mean, he had a lot of things that you wanted.
- [06:26]
Quincy Jones
Yes, he did. He had his own apartment too, and two suits. It was amazing. But I guess what impressed me the most with Ray is that he was so independent and his sightlessness did not hinder him at all. It's one of the treasured, cherished friendships that I really have because as kids we used to talk about everything. He'd show me how to write music in Braille, Dizzy Gillespie songs like Em Anon and Bebop, et cetera. And we used to dream about the future, like, wouldn't it be great to work with a symphony orchestra? One day we're going to do that. One day we're going to have three girlfriends each. You know, one day we're going to do. Do movies together. We're going to do all of that stuff. And we did it. That's what's amazing. We did, you know, in the Heat of the Night together. And we did with the world, all of those things, everything. The girls. So we. It's amazing to dream and have your dreams executed like that.
- [07:29]
Unknown
Well, I thought I'd play a 1959 recording that you arranged for Ray Charles. And this is from the Genius of Ray Charles album, which was recorded in 1950. We're gonna hear Let the Good Times Roll. Would you like to say anything about this track?
- [07:44]
Quincy Jones
I would just like to add that we had half of Count Basie's band on that session and half of Duke Ellington's band on that session. And in those days, that's when I first started to work with Phil Ramone, the engineer, who's now a producer, and Ahmet Erdogan next year. We Ertegun. And Jerry Wexler came by because in those days, what you heard was what you got. It wasn't about fixing in the mix. There was nothing to mix.
- [08:09]
Unknown
This is Ray Charles arrangement by Quincy Jones.
- [08:12]
Ben Mankiewicz
Let the good times roll.
- [08:40]
Quincy Jones
Hey, everybody, let's have some fun. You only live but once and when you're dead, you're done. So let the good time roll. I said let the good time roll. I don't care if you're young or old. You ought to get together and let the good time rol. Don't sit there mumbling, talking trash. If you want to have a ball you got to go out and spend some cash and let the good time roll. Now I'm talking about the good times. What? It makes no difference whether you're young or old. All you got to do is get together and let the good time roll.
- [09:39]
Unknown
Your first important music job was with the Lionel Hampton Big Band. You got that job while you were still in high school. How did he hire you when you were still in school?
- [09:50]
Quincy Jones
I had written a suite that I'd been working on for a long time called from the Four Winds. And it was almost a descriptive piece. And I didn't understand theory too well. Then when I just went ahead straight, it didn't stop me from writing. I didn't understand key signatures or anything. And I would say silly things on the top of a trumpet part, like a note. When you play B naturals, make B naturals a half step lower because they sound funny if they're B naturals. And some guy said, idiot, just put a flat on the third line and it's a key signature. Because it didn't bother me that I didn't understand that. Because I knew eventually I'd learn it. And so I gave this arrangement to. Submitted this to Lionel Hampton. And he said, you wrote this, huh? I said, yeah. You played trumpet, too? He said, yeah. Well, he said, how'd you like to Join my band, please. Are you kidding? And so they had little brown leather bags for your trumpet then I had that, and just very few toilet articles and so forth. And I went and sat on that bus so nobody would change their mind. And I wouldn't have to ask the people at home whether I could go or not. And sure enough, everybody got on one by one. Hamp said, hi, and I felt secure. Then Gladys Hampton got on the bus and said, uh, what is that child doing on this bus? And she said, no, son, you get off the bus. And so we'll try to talk later, but you go to school. And I was destroyed. And so I got a scholarship to Boston, to the Berklee College of Music. And I got the call. A friend named Janet Thurlow was singing with the band. And she reminded them. And they called and said, we'd like you to be with the band. I was 18 then, and I was ready. I was told the school I'd be back. But I guess down inside, you know, when you go with a band like that, you never go back.
- [11:39]
Unknown
Now, you said that you were afraid that when you were playing with Hampton. That Parker or Thelonious Monk might show up in the audience. And you were worried they'd laugh at what you had to wear in the band. What did you have to wear in the Hampton band?
- [11:53]
Quincy Jones
Well, that incident happened when we were playing at a place on Broadway called right next door to Birdland. I mean, totally adjacent. And both places were downstairs. And we had to wear Tyrolean hats, purple shawl colored coats and Bermuda shorts.
- [12:11]
Unknown
Bermuda shorts? Why?
- [12:13]
Quincy Jones
Oh, my God, the whole band.
- [12:15]
Unknown
Why did you have to wear shorts?
- [12:16]
Quincy Jones
Oh, I don't know. That's just Hamp's idea of hemp was like a rock and roll band. And he was the first rock and roll band. Because he attacked an audience like a rock and roll band, no prisoners. And he knew how to get them too.
- [12:26]
Unknown
Well, some of the tenor solos were almost like a rock and roll band too. Yeah.
- [12:30]
Quincy Jones
Yes. And they. They'd walk in the theaters. They'd walk. They had thin soled shoes. And walk over the audience's heads with these thin soled shoes on top of their chairs. You know, it was absolutely incredible. He had this sense of show business, but he had a lot of music in the band because they had people like Wes Montgomery and Charlie Mingus and Fashion Navarro, Clifford Brown, amazing musicians in the band. And I loved Hanford having that ambidexterity because he liked great music, but he also liked to level his audience and Take no prisoners until they were wrung out. He was not satisfied.
- [13:06]
Unknown
So did any of your bebop friends end up seeing you in that band that night?
- [13:11]
Quincy Jones
Well, that particular night, he had this favorite thing he'd like to do. He'd have everybody. He'd get his drumsticks and start a whole line, almost like a conga line. And the saxophone section would follow him around the audience. And he'd go around and beat the drumsticks on everybody's table. The trumpets and trombones were right behind him playing. Flying Home. Then he'd go upstairs. I said, oh, my God, Clifford Brown. And I said, if he goes upstairs, we may run into Charlie Parker and Bud Powell and Mingus and all these great musicians. And AMP went upstairs, and he's playing his drumsticks all over the awnings. And the guys are saying, what is going on here? He'd even go so far as to get in a taxi cab with the saxophone section and go to another club, maybe three blocks away and play with the saxophone section of band back at the. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, we're still playing. So it was quite an experience. He had no shame. And he was a great musician. One of the great times of my life, so.
- [14:08]
Unknown
But did Parker see you in your Bermuda shorts?
- [14:11]
Quincy Jones
Oh, yes. But on top of that, Parker would come next door. Bird would come next door. He loved to read music. And he was starring next door with, like, the 52nd Street All Stars or Bebop All Stars. And they were looking for him next door. It was time for him to play his set. And he's sitting over there in our band playing second tenor because he loved to read music. And he's sitting for an hour while people are next door waiting to hear him as this genius of the 20th century. And he's over there playing second tenor parts to practice his reading. Because all the musicians read music back then.
- [14:46]
Unknown
So playing with the Hampton Band, did you get an appreciation of the value of, like, show business in music? Or did you come to hate it and want something that threw that out the window? Kind of like Parker threw show business values, you know?
- [15:02]
Quincy Jones
No, no, no, no. Because we were weaned and I mean, trained. In Seattle, that's the way we had to do in Seattle, too. We had to play schottisches. We had to play rhythm and blues. We had to play stripper music. We played comedy. I mean, the trombone player myself had a comedy team called Dexadrene and Benzod Major Pickford. We used to steal all of the comedy lines from the older guys. And we'd imitate and wear hats with wine bottles and our pockets and so forth. It was insane. But, no, not at all. We were used to that. We were used to that. He'd have gloves for the whole trumpet section that would shine in the dark. And you do kind of hand choreography and so forth. And people could forget that those bands back there were basically to dance bands. To just make people want to feel good dancing. And coincidentally, great innovation crawled through that platform. Like Charlie Parker and the Billy Eckstein Band. The people in Miles Davis and so forth. Dizzy Gillespie from Cab Calloway. But these monsters, major. Major musicians happened to be in bands who were basically there for people to have a good time and dance. And it was about entertainment. And it was ironic because the underlying attitude with all of the bebop musicians is that we have heard Stravinsky, now we've done this. And we want to be pure artists. We don't want to entertain anymore. We don't want to sing. We don't want to have to dance or move or entertain an audience.
- [16:38]
Unknown
Well, you know, one of the things you say about the Lionel Hampton band bus. And this might have something to do with why Gladys Hampton wanted you off the bus. Was that there were four different sections of guys on the bus. Why don't you describe how that broke down?
- [16:51]
Quincy Jones
Well, they had up front were the Holy Rollers, I guess. And then they had the Drinkers. Then they had the guys that indulged in Sweet Wheat gigglegrass. And they had the guys that were the hardcore mainliners. Really.
- [17:08]
Unknown
Which section did you sit in?
- [17:11]
Quincy Jones
The Sweet Wheat. We were very young then, and I was 18 when I went with that band. And you'd bounce back between that of trying to figure out how to make that work with Mogan, David Wyan or Manischevitz. It was ridiculous.
- [17:32]
Unknown
Well, the first recording that you made was with the Lionel Hampton Band. This was in 1952. It's also your first recorded composition and first recorded arrangement. It's called Kingfish. Why don't you say something about what you think of this musically?
- [17:46]
Quincy Jones
Now I look at the whole book and the whole life. I guess it's like somebody else. I don't know where I had the spirit or the stick to itiveness to write something like that then. Because, number one, I knew that music was my ticket out of this other life that I had the thug life and dysfunctional family life. And it was like wonderland to arrange in the idea of orchestration and arrangements and composition. And that to this day is what my core skill is as an arrangement and orchestrator and composer. I was just so happy to have a surrounding, an environment where that respond that was encouraged all the time.
- [18:36]
Unknown
Okay, so here it is, 1952, Quincy Jones with the Lionel Hampton Band, Kingfish from the early 1950s. That was Quincy Jones first recording with the Lionel Hampton Orchestra.
- [19:45]
Quincy Jones
It's called Kingfish Terry, by the way, I think that's the first recorded solo I ever had on record, the first record I was ever involved with. And I think it's one of the only solos I have on record.
- [19:55]
Unknown
Why didn't you solo more often?
- [19:57]
Quincy Jones
I don't know. I was getting more and more pulled into the quicksand of writing. And then and about a year or so later, after we begged Hamp to get Gigi Grice and Vinnie Golsan and Clifford Brown in the band, sitting next to Art Farmer and Clifford Brown and Benny Bailey helped me get into writing quickly because they were Clifford Brown was probably one of the greatest trumpet players that ever lived. Unbelievable.
- [20:24]
Terry Gross
We're listening to my 2001 interview with Quincy Jones. He died Sunday at the age of 91. We'll hear more of the interview after a break. I'm Terry Gross, and this is FRESH air.
- [20:36]
Quincy Jones
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. This is Lionel Hampton speaking, and welcome to our bandstand here. And this tune we're playing now is called Broadway. Hi, this is Molly C.V. nussberg, digital producer at Fresh Air.
- [21:19]
Terry Gross
And this is Terry Gross, host of the show.
- [21:21]
Quincy Jones
One of the things I do is.
- [21:22]
Terry Gross
Write the weekly newsletter, and I'm a newsletter fan. I read it every Saturday after breakfast. The newsletter includes all the week shows, staff recommendations and Molly Picks timely highlights from the archive. It's a fun read.
- [21:34]
Unknown
It's also the only place where we.
- [21:36]
Quincy Jones
Tell you what's coming up next week, an exclusive.
- [21:38]
Terry Gross
So subscribe@whyy.org freshair and look for an email from Molly every Saturday morning.
- [21:47]
Ben Mankiewicz
This message comes from NPR sponsor Saatva Founder and CEO Ron Rudsen shares the experience they hope to create in their viewing rooms.
- [21:57]
Quincy Jones
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- [22:11]
Ben Mankiewicz
To learn more, go to saatva.com NPR this message comes from Capital One, offering commercial solutions you can bank on. Now more than ever, your business faces unique challenges and opportunities. That's why Capital One offers a comprehensive suite of financial services, all tailored to your short and long term goals. Backed by the strength and stability of a top 10 commercial bank. Their dedicated experts work with you to build lasting success. Explore the possibilities@capitalone.com commercial a member FDIC. This message comes from Carvana. Carvana makes car selling easy. Enter your license plate or vin, answer some questions and Carvana will give you a real offer in seconds. Whether you're looking to sell your car right now or whenever feels right. Go to Carvana.com to sell your car the convenient way.
- [23:09]
Terry Gross
This is FRESH air. I'm Terry Gross. We're remembering composer, arranger and producer Quincy Jones. He died Sunday at the age of 91. His work spanned from the big bands through bebop population, movie soundtracks, TV themes and hip hop. He arranged or produced recordings for Sinatra, Ray Charles, Aretha, Dinah Washington and Ice T. And he produced the Michael Jackson albums Off the Wall, Bad and Thriller. His music has been sampled in many hip hop recordings, and his 1962 recording Sol Bossa Nova was used as the theme for the Austin Powers films. His multimedia company produced the TV shows the Fresh Prince of Bel Air, in the house and Mad TV.
- [23:52]
Unknown
Now I gotta move to a 1962 recording. This is the sole bossa Nova, which became the theme for Austin Powers the movie. Yes, it did. Which just goes to show how this epitomizes a certain 60s sound. What was the occasion for writing this? Originally?
- [24:09]
Quincy Jones
We had just come back from two State Department tours with Dizzy Gillespie. The first was in the Middle east place in Pakistan, right there, you know, Abadan and Iran and Syria, Beirut. And we came back to the White House Correspondence Ball in Washington and they liked what we had done and so they sent us out to South America after that. And naturally a black band's going to play all these kamikaze places. They'd have the Cypriots stoning the embassy in Athens, and they'd rush us over from Ankara, Turkey, get in there quick, almost like ground troops and send a black man over there. And so the same students that stoned the embassy were all down front in the front row and everything else. It was pretty scary really, because we didn't know what their conflict was all about, really. And after the concert, the same students started crawling over the top of the stage and like straight towards the band. I said, this is it. Now we're in big trouble. The same ones who were stoning the embassy and they grabbed Dizzy. They had no idea what was on their mind and they put him on their shoulders. And they were walking around saying, dizzy, Dizzy, Dizzy. I was so relieved because it was terrifying to watch them come towards the band, especially with the reputation they had in the papers the day before. And so we went down to getting back to Latin America. We went down to Argentina first in Buenos Aires. And after our first concert, we met a beautiful young musician named Lalo Shiffrin. He was a teenager then two. And he had told me all about. He'd studied with Olivier Mession. And that's where I first heard the name Nadia Boulanger. And it just sent electricity through me. He also told. We also recorded down there with Oster Piazzola, who was like a very experimental composer, working on what they call a modern city tango. And then he warned us about the new movement that was coming out of Brazil. And we were very excited about hearing this new music. It was bossa nova. And when we got to Brazil, Dizzy played with the rhythm section, somber rhythm section, at the Gloria Hotel one afternoon. And sitting in the front row with three teenagers, a married couple, Astrud and Joao Gilberto, and Antonio Carlos Jobim, who started the whole bossa nova movement. And ironically, the first record that came out in the United States was Desi Finado. And the melody on the first, just the opening strain, was just almost pure Dizzy Gillespie. That's why they referred to it at that time as Jazz ensemba, before they even called it bossa nova. And so we came home all excited about this new music. They had moved to Clavi Beat, which is really like the foundation of. Of Latin music straight up and down Latin America. That's the foundation of Clavi Beat is the guiding force. And I wanted to record some of this stuff. And so I made a thing called Big Band Bossa Nova. And I wrote in about 20 minutes since 1962, a tune called Soul Bossa Nova. And we had Brazilian rhythm section and everything else. And I guess 38 years passed. And so now Austin Powers is this huge star and he's stuck with this thing. This is his theme forever. Da da da da da da da da da da. And it's amazing because they did two movies with the theme. And he opened it with a marching band playing it on the first time. Now he wants me to be in the next film.
- [28:01]
Unknown
So were you flattered when you found out that Mike Myers wanted to use your soul bossa nova as the theme for Austin Powers? Or did you think, oh, now it's going to be camp. Now it's going to be seen as camp.
- [28:13]
Quincy Jones
Well, it was camp, but, you know, it doesn't matter, though, because, you know, it's. A tune like that was kind of a campy tune anyway, so I loved it. You know, I was very happy that he. He found a whole new home for this, you know, in this generation.
- [28:34]
Unknown
Well, let's hear your 1962 recording of Sol Bossa Nova, which later became the theme for Austin Powers psychedelic behave.
- [28:45]
Quincy Jones
He is so funny.
- [29:56]
Unknown
That's Quincy Jones 1962 recording of his composition Sol Bossa Nova, also known now as the theme for Austin Powers. Other music you were doing in the 1960s, you also had a pop music career. One of your biggest successes was Leslie Gore. You produced her first big hit, It's My Party, and produced other records of hers as well. Tell us how you discovered Leslie Gore.
- [30:22]
Quincy Jones
Well, I got kind of. It was sort of a challenge, really, because I was. I had come back from Europe and I had lost a lot of money, and I had to take Irving Green, the president of Mercury, said, come over here as an A and R man, because you are an artist on Mercury anyway, an artist in developed repertoire. He hired me and he promoted me to vice president. And during that time, I was recording all the divas and, you know, Nina Simone and Sarah Vaughan and Shirley Horne, Donnie Washington. And we were doing things with Robert Farn, big string, expensive dates and so forth. And they were beautiful musical albums. But Irving said to me one time, he says, you know, all the pop guys are saying, you and Hal Mooney, who are the arrangers, are budget busters because you do all this big music, but we need some more help with the bottom line with hit records. And I was a little presumptuous and said, well, I don't think it's such a big deal to make a pop hit. He says, well, why don't you start making something then? And we were at a meeting at the Oxford House, where we had our A and R meetings regularly in Chicago. And he said, here's a tape that Joe Glaser sent me and his friend, the fight manager, somebody has a niece that sang something. Just say you listened to it and we'll send it back. You know, I grabbed it and I thought, I'd like to try this. Because she had a great sound as a rock singer in those days. She could sing really in tune. She was 16 years old. And we went back to New York and talked to Joe Glazer, and he said, make her a star. And, you know, all of that Hollywood stuff. And we went in on a Saturday and recorded two songs, It's My Party. And with a B side written by Paul Anka Young Paul Anker called Danny. And on the way to Carnegie Hall, I saw Phil Spector. And Phil Spector said, I just cut a smash, man with the Crystals call this my party. I said, what? I had never experienced that kind of competition before. Went back to the studio with the engineer and we mastered 100 acetates to send out to the radio and the rest, you know, I had to go to Japan right after that and I told Leslie, we've got the great record and everything. All we need to do is fix that name. Because I don't think this name is going to work with a pop record, you know.
- [32:51]
Unknown
So you didn't like the name Gore?
- [32:53]
Quincy Jones
No, I didn't like it.
- [32:55]
Unknown
I won't tell Al Gore about that.
- [32:58]
Quincy Jones
And so I went to Japan to do a television show and we doing a little acting and scoring it. And so I got a call from Irving Green later and he said, did anybody call you yet? I said, no. I said, did she get that name together yet? Did she come up with any suggestions? She said, the record's number one. Do you really care? I said, no, it sounds, sounds just fine. It's amazing. It's a big lesson.
- [33:24]
Unknown
Whatever happened to the Crystals recording of It's My Party that Phil Spector was.
- [33:28]
Quincy Jones
I don't think. I don't think it came out. I don't think it came out. Leslie's thing was. Had such impact. I don't know. I may be wrong, but I don't think it came out. Well.
- [33:36]
Unknown
I thought I'd play youy Don't Own Me. That's the Leslie Gore track that's Featured on your 4 CD box set. I also think it's just a particularly good recording and also a kind of proto feminist anthem.
- [33:46]
Quincy Jones
And a long time ago too.
- [33:48]
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, yeah, with a lot of strings. Now you were talking about how you were using strings with jazz singers you were working with. I know this is Klaus Ogerman's arrangement and not yours, but still it's very string oriented arrangement.
- [34:01]
Quincy Jones
He's an amazing musician.
- [34:03]
Unknown
Okay, well this is you Don't Own Me, produced by my guest Quincy Jones, sung by Leslie Gore. You don't own me. I'm not just one of your many toys.
- [34:25]
Quincy Jones
You don't own me. Don't say I can't go with other boys.
- [34:35]
Ben Mankiewicz
And don't tell me what to do. Don't tell me what to say. And please when I die with you. Don't put beyond the same.
- [34:52]
Unknown
You don't own me. Don't try to change me in any way.
- [34:59]
Quincy Jones
You don't own me. Don't tie me down. Cause I'd never say.
- [35:09]
Ben Mankiewicz
I don't tell you what to say. I don't tell you what to do. So just let me be myself. That's all I have to do. I'm young and I love to be young. I'm free and I love to be free, to live my life the way I want to say and do whatever I please.
- [35:41]
Terry Gross
That's Leslie Gore, a recording produced by Quincy Jones in 1963. We're remembering Quincy Jones on today's show. He died Sunday at the age of 91. We'll hear more of my 2001 interview with him after a short break. This is FRESH air.
- [35:57]
Quincy Jones
This is Ira Glass of this American Life. Each week on our show, we choose a theme, tell different stories on that theme. All right, I'm just going to stop right there. You're listening to an NPR podcast. Chances are you know our show.
- [36:09]
Ben Mankiewicz
So instead I'm going to tell you.
- [36:12]
Quincy Jones
We'Ve just been on a run of really good shows lately, some big, epic, emotional stories and some weird, funny stuff, too. Download us this American Life.
- [36:21]
Unknown
If you listen on the regular to the FRESH AIR podcast, then I know you'll love some of the other NPR podcasts, too. Here's why NPR is worth your time and money. You get perks like sponsor free listening, bonus episodes, early access shop discounts and more for over 20 different NPR podcasts like this one. Support what you love and stop hearing promos like this one@plus.npr.org Joe Biden's on.
- [36:50]
Ben Mankiewicz
His way out and Donald Trump's on his way back.
- [36:53]
Quincy Jones
Want to know what's happening as the.
- [36:54]
Ben Mankiewicz
Presidential transition is underway? The NPR Politics podcast has you covered with the latest news and analysis. Listen to the NPR Politics podcast.
- [37:04]
Terry Gross
This is FRESH air. We're remembering Quincy Jones. He died Sunday. Get back to the interview we recorded in 2001.
- [37:12]
Unknown
Let's talk about your childhood. Your early years were spent on the south side of Chicago. Your father was a carpenter and you say that he worked for the guys who ran the rackets in the south side. How did he end up being their carpenter?
- [37:26]
Quincy Jones
Well, you know, that was the Chicago during the Depression in the ghetto, nobody asked any questions. You know, Chicago also was the spawning ground of everybody, probably the headquarters baring ground of every gangster in America, black or white. Roger Tuohy, Dillinger, Capone, everybody. So the Jones boys were just they were one of the first black gangsters. They started the policy rackets. And they also had a five and dime store chain, the Jones Five and Dime, which they used to call the Vs and X's. So sometimes we make a trip over to the Vs and X's to.
- [38:06]
Unknown
So these were the Jones boys your father worked for? This isn't the Quincy Jones family you're talking about.
- [38:10]
Quincy Jones
No, no, no, no, no. They were the gangsters back in the day.
- [38:16]
Unknown
Your mother was a Christian Scientist. Did she bring you up in your early years as a Christian Scientist?
- [38:21]
Quincy Jones
I think so, if I can remember. She went to Boston University probably in the 20s, which is very unusual, you know, for African American female in those days. And she very smart lady. She spoke and wrote like 12 languages, including Hebrew, everything. And she typed 100 words a minute. And so she was like, kind of the administrator, superintendent of one of the places we lived in, like the Rosenwald before we got into a house.
- [38:55]
Unknown
Your mother was later diagnosed as schizophrenic, and she was institutionalized for a while. What were some of her problems at home before she was actually diagnosed? Problems that you found disturbing?
- [39:07]
Quincy Jones
Well, it's dementia praecox, which is schizophrenia. She was obsessed with religion. She would stare out of the window and she would sing spiritual. She'd play spiritual. So. And was just erratic at times. And I remember when I was about five years old, she. My birthday party, she threw my coconut cake out off the back porch. And it was really a big deal to me then. I don't know why I remember that so much, but it was really something I couldn't understand because the cake was supposed to be like the symbol or the metaphor for the joy of the birthday party. And she threw it out. And it just really shocked me. And it was a very traumatic moment. And I know it sounds like it's nothing.
- [39:56]
Unknown
No, it doesn't sound like it's nothing.
- [39:57]
Quincy Jones
At five years old, it freaked me out. And I realized. My brother and I both realized something was wrong. I mean, every day we realized something was wrong because it just wasn't like other people's parents, even the bad parents. It wasn't the same as that because she was very smart. And so. So finally she was committed. And I didn't know or kind of blanked out what the process was until I went back there, like 50 years later. When I did listen up, all of it came back. And I guess that's the part of the book that was cathartic. There were missing pieces in my memory. And it got clarified after she was committed.
- [40:43]
Unknown
She escaped from the hospital three times. And then when she was released from the hospital, you say she fought, followed you around from town to town for the rest of your life. And sometimes showing up at the oddest times, apparently. I guess you needed more distance from her than she wanted.
- [41:03]
Quincy Jones
Oh, absolutely. Well, we had a very hard time communicating. We couldn't have a conversation without it being. Turning into a big argument. And I didn't know. I guess Lloyd and I both were so hungry for. Lloyd's was my brother, my younger brother. We were so hungry for the mother stuff and just to be patted on the back or head or something that we just never could communicate. We didn't know how to connect at that time. I guess you need validation and guidance and love and nurturing and those words that weren't around in the ghetto during the Depression, nurturing never came up very often.
- [41:46]
Unknown
Right.
- [41:47]
Quincy Jones
It's like, cholesterol. Please, Cholesterol. Sounds like something to drink. You know.
- [41:54]
Unknown
One of the strangest places your mother showed up, one of the most surprising times was at Birdland when you were performing. Tell us what happened.
- [42:03]
Quincy Jones
Oh, my God. I couldn't believe it. That was the first time I ever played Birdland with my own band. And I was really proud because I'd seen all my idols there. Charlie Parker and Dizzy Duke, Basie, everybody. And lo and behold, here come. I see her at the. You know, it's a huge entrance there with the. It comes downstairs. And the regular host there was named Peewee Marquette, who was really a character. He had four watches on and about three coats of powder on his face and a couple of jackets on and a vest and everything else. A real character with a lot of attitude. And you'd see, like, parting of the crowd, you know, as he's walking through because he was so short. And he walked through, and she said, no, come on, lady. You know you can't come in. She said, shut up. You know, if you didn't drink so much, you wouldn't be so short. And she had a tongue like a laser beam. She turned the place out for about an hour. You knew she was down there. And she took nothing from anybody.
- [43:00]
Unknown
No. I was reading the obituary for your mother. She died in 1999 at the age of 94. And one of the things that mentioned about her was that she was a master typist and that she once typed the New Testament as a gift to her children.
- [43:14]
Quincy Jones
Yes.
- [43:14]
Unknown
Do you remember getting that as a gift?
- [43:16]
Quincy Jones
Absolutely. And I said to her, I said, this is. I'm Very touched, you know, but, you know, you can buy this for like $3 or $4 or something like that. And she, you know, but she meant it. She meant it as something, as something that she was really trying to give. And more and more, Lloyd started to realize, you know, that the things that she did, she couldn't help it. And in the final analysis, she probably went through more hell than anybody, all of us combined, because having kids, I know how that must have felt, regardless of how difficult she made it for herself and for us. We didn't know how to be children. She didn't know how to be a mother. And it was very painful.
- [43:57]
Terry Gross
We're listening to my 2001 interview with Quincy Jones. We'll hear more of it after a break. This is FRESH AIR.
- [44:05]
Unknown
Okay, so does this sound like you.
- [44:08]
Ben Mankiewicz
You love NPR's podcasts.
- [44:10]
Unknown
You wish you could get more of all your favorite shows, and you want to support NPR's mission to create a more informed public. If all that sounds appealing, then it.
- [44:20]
Quincy Jones
Is time to sign up for the NPR plus bundle.
- [44:24]
Unknown
Learn more at plus.NPR.org the code switch team spent Election Day talking to folks.
- [44:32]
Quincy Jones
About how the outcome might impact them.
- [44:34]
Unknown
It's a time capsule of people's hopes and fears before they knew the results.
- [44:39]
Ben Mankiewicz
One way or another, there's a change caused.
- [44:41]
Quincy Jones
I wanted to vote for Trump, but I voted for her. Gays for Trump. I cried this morning. I've been crying on and off. I'm terrified.
- [44:48]
Unknown
Listen to Code Switch, the podcast about.
- [44:51]
Ben Mankiewicz
Race and identity, from NPR.
- [44:53]
Unknown
Read about the impact of women in music with NPR's new book, How Women Made a Revolutionary History from NPR Music. This stunning anthology offers original writing and illustrations, interviews and photos. And the audiobook includes 52 years worth of interview excerpts with more than 60 legendary artists.
- [45:13]
Ben Mankiewicz
Visit npr.org how women made music to order now.
- [45:17]
Terry Gross
This is FRESH AIR. We're remembering composer, arranger and producer Quincy Jones. He died Sunday at the age of 91. Here's the final part of my interview with him, which we recorded in 2001.
- [45:30]
Unknown
I want to get back to your music and to get to the most colossal success that you had. And that was the album Thriller with Michael Jackson. You first met him in 1972 at Sammy Davis House. You worked together on the Wiz. What was his or yours or, you know, the both of yours. Original concept for Thriller?
- [45:52]
Quincy Jones
Well, it starts before that. It starts during the movie you know of when we first met after initially at 12 years old, she was about 19, about 77 or so. And he came over to the house and that's the first time we really met on a professional basis. And he was growing up then and he said, pleased to meet you, et cetera, and was very sweet and said, I'm doing. We have a new contract with Epic Records and the Jackson 5. I'm still working with him, but I happened to do a solo album and I was wondering if you could help me find a producer. I said, great, Michael, but right now we've got a mammoth job here to pre record all the songs with you and Nipsey Russell, Richie Pryor and Lena Horne and Diana Ross and everybody else to pre record the songs before you make a film. That's just the nature of what films are about. You pre record the voice, everything, and you have to really guess right about the dramatic context of how a song starts and stops, how long it is, because it's all going to be film and that's what the film's going to be. It's. It's a slave to that track. So you really have to concentrate. And so I said, if you be patient, not just wait until we get through, maybe we can talk about the producer. So we finish the pre records, we start getting preparing for the film. Sidney L. Is at the St. George Hotel in Brooklyn one day and he's blocking out a scene with the four principals and Michael's the Scarecrow. And he had pulled out of his straw chest, he'd pull out little quotes from Yada Dada, da da da da Confucius, da da da da da da da da da da da da da. So crates. And he kept saying Socrates. And about the third day I just took him aside and said, michael, the word is Socrates. And he said, really? And he was really surprised, you know, because he's been a star since he's five, you know, so he's been on the road since then. He's like an old man in one sense, like a baby in another. And there was something about the look in his eye. And I'd been watching him, the discipline he had. He'd get up at 5 in the morning for his makeup test and everything else. Very, very conscientious and disciplined young person. I mean, one of the most I'd ever seen. He knew everybody's lines, everybody's songs, everybody's lyrics, everybody's dance steps, everybody's movement, everything. And the most amazing, absorbing and involved person I'd ever artist I'd ever seen before. And I love the records they made on Motown, you know, the bubblegum things you know, dance machine, those things. But after seeing this other side of him, I felt that there was much more inside of Michael that hadn't been touched. Because you look at Michael at first, you say there's nothing else to do with him. He's done everything. And he did it at nine. You know, he's singing love song to a rat, you know, Ben and everything. And he was fearless and sincere about it. He had a very strong sense of maturity.
- [49:00]
Unknown
What was your approach to producing Thriller? What did you think of as your major contributions to the sound of that record?
- [49:08]
Quincy Jones
Thriller was a combination of all my experience as an orchestrator and picking the songs and Michael's, all the talents he has as a dancer, as a singer, as an amazing entertainer. It was like us throwing everything, accumulated experience, putting it all together.
- [49:27]
Unknown
Well, let's hear Billie Jean. I really regret we're out of time. I wish we could talk some more. I want to thank you so much for talking with us.
- [49:34]
Quincy Jones
It's a pleasure, Terry.
- [49:36]
Terry Gross
My interview with Quincy Jones was recorded in 2001. He died Sunday at the age of 91. Tomorrow on FRESH AIR, our guest will be Oscar nominee Saoirse Ronan. She has two new films in theaters, the Outrun, about a young alcoholic trying to get sober, and Blitz, about a mother in London during the World War II German bombardment trying to find her lost son. Her other films include Little Women, Lady Bird, Brooklyn and Atonement. I hope you'll join us. FRESH air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Roberta Shorok directs the show. Our co host is Tanya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross.
- [50:40]
Unknown
She told me her name was Billie Jean and she cost her sin. Then heavy hair turned me to ice. Dreams of being the one who would dance on the floor.
- [50:51]
Quincy Jones
Get around.
- [50:56]
Unknown
People always told me be careful what to do.
- [50:59]
Ben Mankiewicz
I don't go around. This message comes from NPR sponsor Rosetta Stone, an expert in language learning for 30 years. Right now, NPR Listen can get Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership to 25 different languages for 50% off. Learn more@RosettaStone.com NPR Ever Look up at.
- [51:45]
Unknown
The stars and wonder what's out there? On shortwave, we ask big questions about our universe. From baby galaxies to the search for alien life, we explore the celestial science behind these questions. Listen now to the shortwave podcast from npr.
- [52:07]
Quincy Jones
On the embedded podcast, every Marine takes an oath to protect the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. This is the story of a Marine in the Capitol on January 6th.
- [52:20]
Ben Mankiewicz
Did he break his oath?
- [52:21]
Quincy Jones
And what does that mean for all.
- [52:23]
Ben Mankiewicz
Of Listen to a Good Guy on.
- [52:26]
Quincy Jones
The embedded podcast from npr. Both episodes available now.