Fresh Air (NPR) – December 5, 2025

Remembering Steve Cropper / Playwright Tom Stoppard

Episode Overview

This episode of Fresh Air pays tribute to two influential cultural figures who recently passed away: Steve Cropper, the legendary Stax guitarist/producer/songwriter who shaped the sound of soul music, and Tom Stoppard, the innovative British playwright. The show revisits archival interviews with both men—Cropper’s from 1990 and Stoppard’s from 1991—delving into their creative processes, personal histories, and the marks they left on music and theater.

Remembering Steve Cropper

(Interview originally aired with Terry Gross, 1990)

Early Life and Musical Influences

• Cropper grew up soaking in the sounds of the Grand Ole Opry and the Louisiana Hayride, primarily listening to country music.
• A life-changing moment came when he discovered black spiritual music on Memphis’ WDIA radio:
  • Quote:
    “I found one night on WDIA black spiritual music. I’d never heard it before and it just blew me away—the feeling, the excitement.” (Steve Cropper, 03:06)
• Raised in the Church of Christ, he was used to acapella singing but was struck by the "funky" rhythm and emotion in Black gospel and R&B.

Developing as a Guitarist and Studio Player

• Cropper never aspired to be a lead guitarist or virtuoso, but focused on rhythmic feel and groove:
  • Quote:
    “I never really was a lead player. I never tried to be a lead player... my best forte, I think, is capturing the feel of a song during its inception in the studio.” (Steve Cropper, 03:54)
• He preferred working in-studio, helping shape songs from their foundations.

Getting Started at Stax Records

• Cropper’s entry into Stax was, as he tells it, almost an accident prompted by a friend, Charles Axton, whose mother owned a recording studio:
  • Memorable Moment:
    Axton: "Oh, by the way, my mother owns a recording studio."
    Cropper: “Can you show up for rehearsal on Saturday?” (05:23)
• Cropper juggled work in the record shop and A&R responsibilities, eventually becoming a full-time staff member at Stax.

Formation of Booker T. & the MG’s

• The transition from performing with The Mar-Keys on the road to forming the legendary house band stemmed from Cropper’s desire to work in studios rather than tour:
  • He scouted musicians and helped bring in Booker T. Jones, whose skills soon became central to the group.

[09:03] – “Green Onions” (Booker T. & the MG’s) – Musical Excerpt

Songwriting Highlights and Working with Soul Legends

Collaborating with Otis Redding

• Cropper co-wrote and co-produced “(Sittin’ On) The Dock of the Bay” and described his working relationship with Redding:
  • Otis was always full of ideas; Cropper would help structure and finish songs.
  • Quote:
    “If you listen to songs I collaborated with Otis, most of the lyrics are about him... Dock of the Bay is exactly that. ‘I left my home in Georgia, headed for the Frisco Bay...’” (Steve Cropper, 10:03)
  • Many songs grew directly from Redding’s real-life experiences, with Cropper supporting lyric development and arrangements.

[11:52] – “(Sittin’ On) The Dock of the Bay” (Otis Redding) – Musical Excerpt

Writing “In the Midnight Hour” with Wilson Pickett

• His first session with Pickett led to an R&B classic, shaped by Pickett’s habit of referencing “the midnight hour” in fade-outs:
  • Quote:
    “Every time he sang lead on something, when he got down to the fade out, he would go, ‘wait till the midnight hour’... I said, that’s the guy’s ID. So I just took that right there and presented it to him with a little idea.” (Steve Cropper, 14:38)
• They wrote “In the Midnight Hour”, “Don’t Fight It”, and “I’m Not Tired” in a single night—all became hits.

[15:35] – “In The Midnight Hour” (Wilson Pickett) – Musical Excerpt

On “The Blues Brothers” and Crossing Racial Lines

• Cropper addressed the controversy over The Blues Brothers, emphasizing Dan Aykroyd and John Belushi’s genuine love for R&B and blues:
  • Quote:
    “They got a lot of bad rap on that...but they had such a love for that kind of music, for rhythm and blues and so forth.” (Steve Cropper, 17:11)
• Cropper, along with bassist “Duck” Dunn, contributed to making the Blues Brothers more than mere parody, introducing them to soul material and Sam & Dave-style routines.

Remembering Jazz Organist Jimmy Smith (by Kevin Whitehead)

[22:30]–[29:55]

• A brief tribute to Jimmy Smith’s revolutionary impact on jazz organ, blending blues, swing, and percussive playing.
• Smith’s innovations shaped generations, making him a reference point for jazz organ before and after his time.

Remembering Tom Stoppard

(Interview originally aired with Terry Gross, 1991)

Introduction and Artistic Legacy

• Tom Stoppard, who died at 88, is remembered for intellectually dazzling plays blending wit, philosophy, and narrative experimentation (“Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead,” “Arcadia,” “Coast of Utopia”).
• He also won acclaim as a screenwriter (“Shakespeare in Love,” “Empire of the Sun”).

The “Double Act” and Rosencrantz and Guildenstern

• Stoppard was drawn to minor Hamlet characters because of their comedic ‘double act’ dynamic:
  • Quote:
    “The first thing I liked about them is that there were two of them. And the double act, you know, has a long and honorable comic tradition...they’re fun to write.” (Tom Stoppard, 33:29)
• He found them “rather endearing,” often misunderstood as villains when in fact, in his vision, they are well-meaning innocents adrift in a plot they cannot fathom.

“Word Game Tennis” – Playful Language and Structure

• Stoppard relished wordplay and games in his work, exemplified in scenes where the characters play questions-only “verbal tennis.”
  • Memorable Moment:
    “The idea is that it’s two people who have to avoid answering questions. They have to answer a question with a question.” (35:00)

The Relationship Between Art and Life

• Stoppard frequently used plays within plays to explore where art ends and reality begins:
  • Quote:
    “There’s something about writing about the relationship between one work of art inside or up against another known play...it makes sparks for me.” (Tom Stoppard, 37:20)

Childhood, Exile, and Personal History

• Stoppard recounted fleeing Czechoslovakia as a child because of the Nazis, escaping to Singapore, then India after Pearl Harbor:
  • Quote:
    “We went to Singapore, which was ironic because we got there in time for Pearl Harbor and the Japanese invasion.” (Tom Stoppard, 38:43)
• Despite early trauma, he described childhood in India as “a lost domain of happiness.”
• Personal parallels emerged when adapting “Empire of the Sun” for film—the young protagonist’s story echoed his own in uncanny detail.

Review: “The Secret Agent” (Brazilian Film)

(John Powers, Critic at Large)

• John Powers reviews Brazil’s acclaimed film “The Secret Agent,” lauding its vibrant sense of place, psychological tension under dictatorship, and a remarkable lead performance by Wagner Moura.
• The film layers daily life with suspense and political menace, reminiscent of 1970s Hollywood thrillers.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Steve Cropper on discovering R&B:
  “I found on WDIA black spiritual music... it just blew me away.” (03:06)
• Cropper on being a rhythm man:
  “I never really was a lead player... I'm a rhythm man. And my best forte... is capturing the feel of a song.” (03:54)
• Cropper on co-writing with Otis Redding:
  “Dock of the Bay is exactly that. ‘I left my home in Georgia, headed for the Frisco Bay...’” (10:03)
• Cropper on The Blues Brothers:
  “They had such a love for that kind of music, for rhythm and blues...” (17:11)
• Stoppard on the appeal of double acts:
  “The first thing I liked about them is that there were two of them... double act... has a long and honorable comic tradition.” (33:29)
• Stoppard on minor characters’ predicament:
  “They don't know why [they died], they don't know what they've done. In fact, they haven't done anything.” (34:22)
• Stoppard on art vs. life in his plays:
  “There’s something about writing about the relationship between one work of art inside or up against another known play... it makes sparks for me.” (37:20)
• Stoppard on childhood exile:
  “We went to Singapore... in time for Pearl Harbor and the Japanese invasion... But in India, protected by the innocence of childhood, I never felt unhappy or worried...” (38:43–40:06)

Key Segment Timestamps

• [02:46] Cropper describes discovering R&B on Memphis radio
• [03:54] Cropper on his approach to guitar playing
• [05:23] The story of how Cropper joined Stax
• [09:03] “Green Onions” musical excerpt
• [10:03] Cropper on collaborating with Otis Redding
• [11:52] “Dock of the Bay” musical excerpt
• [14:38] Cropper explains the inspiration behind “In the Midnight Hour”
• [17:11] Cropper addresses The Blues Brothers’ love for R&B
• [22:30] Kevin Whitehead’s Jimmy Smith tribute
• [33:29] Stoppard on the “double act” of Rosencrantz and Guildenstern
• [35:00] Word play “tennis” excerpt (Stoppard)
• [37:20] Stoppard on the device of art within art
• [38:43] Stoppard on fleeing war as a child and reflections on his upbringing
• [43:40] John Powers reviews “The Secret Agent”

Tone, Style & Final Thoughts

The episode balances warmth, reverence, and intellectual curiosity as both interviews highlight their subjects’ humility, wit, and love for music and theater. Cropper’s Southern matter-of-factness and Stoppard’s dry British humor and self-awareness shine through, making the archival conversations both enlightening and endearing—a fitting salute to two cultural giants.