Fresh Air Episode Summary

Podcast: Fresh Air (NPR)
Episode: Roots of R&B: 'Stand By Me'
Date: August 29, 2025
Main Guests: Ben E. King (archive, 1988), Jerry Lieber & Mike Stoller (archive, 1991), Jerry Wexler (archive, 1993)
Host(s): Terry Gross, David Bianculli

Overview

This episode is part of Fresh Air's summer series spotlighting pivotal figures in R&B, rockabilly, and rock & roll. Focusing on Ben E. King's musical journey, the episode revisits an intimate 1988 conversation between King and Terry Gross, exploring his Harlem roots, leadership of The Drifters, solo stardom with "Stand By Me," and the creative forces—songwriters and producers—behind his sound. The episode is enriched by classic music clips and further conversations with songwriting/production legends Jerry Lieber & Mike Stoller, and producer Jerry Wexler, each providing their perspective on the era’s music history.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ben E. King's Early Life and Introduction to Music

• Street Singing in Harlem

  • Born in North Carolina, King was first exposed to “street singing” or doo-wop after his family moved to New York at age 11 ([02:11]).
  • Quote: “I bumped into different little guys singing and doobopping on the stoops... That was, you know, getting me introduced to the females.” — Ben E. King ([03:35])

• Apollo Theater & Group Style

  • Performed on Amateur Night at the Apollo wearing pink jackets, black shirts, and black trousers ([02:48]).
  • “It was a sight to behold there.” — Ben E. King ([02:52])

• The Five Crowns & Vocal Roles

  • Started as a bass singer; “I’m naturally a bass baritone… I can sing bass still” ([03:25]).
  • Bass singers had prestige—especially among girls: “Girls always thought so. Girls like the bass singer... doing the doo doo, wobbadooly...” ([03:35])

2. Joining & Transforming The Drifters

• Becoming the New Drifters

  • Management crossover: King’s group, The Crowns, absorbed into The Drifters after being spotted at the Apollo ([05:22]).
  • No instructions were given on taking up the Drifters’ mantle: “We weren’t given any warning to what to do, how to act.” ([06:46])
  • Fans were hostile at first: “...the curtain opened—there’s four guys about 17 years old.” ([07:47])

• Transition from Bass to Lead

  • King wrote “There Goes My Baby;” was nudged into lead vocals after the then-lead couldn’t “get the feel” ([08:09]).
  • Quote: “I was trying to show the lyrics to Charlie Thomas… Jerry Wexler came into the control room and said…‘You sing it.’” — Ben E. King ([08:09])
  • “I just went to the mic...and I was stuck with leads since then.” ([08:47])

3. Musical Hits and Milestones

• Major Drifters Hits

  • “There Goes My Baby,” “Save the Last Dance for Me”—the latter topped both R&B and pop charts, a rare feat for a black artist at the time ([09:04]).
  • “...they weren’t actually playing a lot of black records and...weren’t even thinking about crossing them over.” — Ben E. King ([09:04])

• Performance Style

  • Minimal choreography, “short steps” rather than Temptations-style dance moves ([10:38]).
  • Showmanship: “I did [throw my jacket]. Yeah, those things was great...and throwing your handkerchief away and stuff.” ([11:18])

4. Transition to Solo Career

• Why King Went Solo

  • Despite massive hits, The Drifters were paid poorly, leading King and others to ask for a raise; King was fired for speaking up ([12:40]).
  • King’s mentor Lover Patterson kept him in the industry: “He was the one still I find very responsible for me still being here now.” ([12:40])

• Recording Process & Industry Practices

  • The lines between solo/Drifter work blurred, as Atlantic would recall King to record with The Drifters, paying him “scale” ([12:40], [15:08]).

• First Solo Hit: “Spanish Harlem”

  • Originally intended as a Drifters’ song, became King’s solo release thanks to persuasion by Lieber and Stoller ([15:11]).

5. Songwriting, Rights, and “Stand By Me”

• Composing & Credit

  • Liedt & Stoller’s pseudonym “Elmo Glick” appeared on the “Stand By Me” credits, unbeknownst to King for years ([19:27]).
  • King resigned to the unfairness: “We were just kids out of Harlem with no knowledge at all about legalities...I’m only one out of hundreds and thousands of the artists that got. But those things happen too, you know.” ([19:44])

• Emotional Delivery

  • On recording “I Who Have Nothing”: “I just close my eyes and go for it.” — Ben E. King ([16:05])
  • “I listened to myself when I was singing years ago and I prefer my performance much more than I do today...I got very, very involved with the whole feel of the song.” — Ben E. King ([17:57])

• Notable Quote on Success and Luck

  • “A lot of artists were deprived altogether of writing credits, so…I was lucky. I’m one of the lucky ones.” — Ben E. King ([20:11])

6. Perspectives from Jerry Lieber & Mike Stoller

• Writing for R&B and Pop

  • Praised for their wit, insight, and ability to cross cultural boundaries.
  • “We didn’t think of them as novelties. We thought of dark dramas.” — Mike Stoller ([29:41])
  • “I was banging on the roof of the car, and I was trying to come up with something nasty...‘You ain’t nothing but a hound dog’.” — Jerry Lieber, on “Hound Dog” ([27:43], [28:04])

• Producing Innovation

  • On bringing string sections to R&B: “Jerry heard it and he said that sounds like strings. And I said, why not?” — Mike Stoller ([31:52])
  • On introducing Latin rhythms: “That Bayonne rhythm…is responsible for maybe over a thousand hits because this Brazilian rhythm supports a slow ballad without...seeming to be slow or sluggish.” — Jerry Lieber ([33:45])

7. Jerry Wexler: Creating Great Records

• Producer’s Perspective

  • Matched artists’ authentic sound to commercial success, e.g., Aretha Franklin.
  • “I heard the Aretha Franklin who sang in church… It wasn't so much that I tried a new approach to her. It's that what she did fit very well in with what we were doing anyhow.” — Jerry Wexler ([39:39])

• Recording Techniques

  • Collaborative, spontaneous arrangements in southern studios, as opposed to rigid, written charts ([40:32]).
  • "[Aretha] laid down an organ part and a piano part and then she sang the lead and then she and her sisters got together and did the background. And it was a very full finished record put together. I'd say with spit and chewing gum..." — Jerry Wexler ([41:55])

• Backstage Stories

  • On Drifters’ “Under the Boardwalk,” the sudden death of the lead singer pushed Johnny Moore into the role with no key change ([45:26]).
  • “[Rudy Lewis] was found dead in the hotel room with a hypodermic needle in his arm... We had to use Johnny Moore to sing the lead... in the key that was put to him.” ([45:26])

• Industry Realities

  • On pushing artists and records: “I said, this song has to be done. And I said, you can pick all the rest or else ain't no session.” — Jerry Wexler ([44:38])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ben E. King on being “stuck” with lead singing:
  • “I was stuck with leads since then.” ([08:47])
• On the realities of early R&B stardom:
  • “We were just four or five kids coming out of Harlem from a very, very amateurish background.” ([06:46])
• Lieber & Stoller on songwriting:
  • “We were both trying to imitate Tolstoy and Dickens, and I guess we just fell short of the mark. We wrote novelty songs because we're both essentially gag writers...” — Jerry Lieber ([29:48])
• Wexler on Aretha’s transformation:
  • “What she did fit very well in with what we were doing anyhow.” ([39:39])
• King on learning the truth about “Elmo Glick”:
  • “Those were my ghostwriters and I didn't know it for many, many years.” ([19:44])

Musical Highlights & Timestamps

• “Stand By Me” by Ben E. King — [00:40], [24:30]
• “There Goes My Baby” by The Drifters — [04:45], replayed at [34:24]
• “Save the Last Dance for Me” by The Drifters — [09:20]
• “Spanish Harlem” by Ben E. King — [11:39]
• “I Who Have Nothing” by Ben E. King — [16:27]
• “Hound Dog” by Big Mama Thornton — [25:59]
• Other Lieber-Stoller classics (clips): “Kansas City,” “Jailhouse Rock,” “On Broadway,” “Love Potion Number Nine,” “Charlie Brown” ([22:36-24:24])
• Aretha Franklin, Otis Redding, Wilson Pickett, The Drifters, Ray Charles (various, [37:35-39:18])

Episode Structure & Key Timestamps

| Time (MM:SS) | Segment | Description | |--------------|----------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------| | 00:17 | Show introduction | David Bianculli frames the archive focus | | 02:11 | Ben E. King’s early years | Street singing in Harlem | | 05:22 | Transition to the Drifters | King describes how Crowns became Drifters | | 09:20 | “Save the Last Dance for Me” | Song clip, discussion of crossover impact | | 12:40 | King’s solo career & industry issues | Pay, manager conflicts, solo transition | | 15:11 | “Spanish Harlem” and going solo | Song clip, production insight | | 16:27 | “I Who Have Nothing” | Emotional approach to recording | | 19:27 | Songwriting credits & “Stand By Me” | Pen names, legalities | | 25:59 | “Hound Dog” (Big Mama Thornton) | Lieber & Stoller discuss songwriting | | 31:39 | Strings in R&B (“There Goes My Baby”) | Production innovation | | 39:18 | Jerry Wexler on Aretha Franklin | Discovering her true voice | | 44:36 | Drifters’ “Under the Boardwalk” saga | Behind-the-scenes industry story | | 49:24 | Closing remarks/production credits | Look ahead to next episode |

Themes & Takeaways

• Transformation & Crossover: The journey from street-corner doo-wop to chart-topping hits—especially for black artists overcoming systemic barriers.
• Collaboration & Innovation: The intertwined roles of visionary singers, songwriters, and producers who shaped the era’s sound.
• Industry Hardships: Exploitation, credit confusion, and the struggles musicians faced for fair recognition.
• Enduring Artistry: The emotional connection and creative improvisation central to R&B’s most memorable recordings.

This episode provides both nostalgia and depth, offering memorable stories directly from the voices that shaped classic R&B and soul. Both new listeners and longtime fans will walk away with a greater understanding of the artistry—and the challenges—behind the hits.