Roots Of Rock: "Blue Suede Shoes"

Summary

Fresh Air: Roots Of Rock — "Blue Suede Shoes"

Episode Date: August 25, 2025
Host: Terry Gross
Guests: Scotty Moore (1997 interview), Carl Perkins (1996 interview)

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Overview:

To kick off a Fresh Air archival series celebrating R&B, rockabilly, and early rock and roll, Terry Gross revisits two classic interviews:

• Scotty Moore: Legendary guitarist for Elvis Presley, whose influential licks shaped rock guitar.
• Carl Perkins: The originator of "Blue Suede Shoes," prolific songwriter, and rockabilly pioneer.
  Both reflect on the birth of rock, working with Elvis, Sun Records, and the unexpected endurance of their contributions to music.

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Segment 1: Scotty Moore — Guitarist for Elvis Presley

Interview recorded 1997
Timestamps: 00:13–19:37

Joining Elvis and the Birth of Rock and Roll

• Sun Records Connection: Moore recalls his friendship with Sun’s Sam Phillips, sharing coffee and conversations about finding a unique new sound (03:35).

  • “Sam was always saying, well, if we can just find something different, we can find that little niche, you know, to get in between all this other stuff that's happening.” — Scotty Moore (03:43)

• First Meeting Elvis: At Marion Keisker’s suggestion, Moore invited a young Elvis over. Moore recalls,

  • “Seems like he knew every song in the world.” (03:56)
  • At first, Elvis sang in the style of other singers, making it harder to discern his individual artistry.
  • “Musically, you thought he was versatile, but you couldn't tell who he was.” — Terry Gross (04:48)
  • “That's fair to say.” — Scotty Moore (04:52)

• The Spontaneous 'That's All Right' Session: During an audition break, Elvis unexpectedly burst out with “That’s All Right” (Arthur Crudup cover).

  • Moore and bassist Bill Black joined in instinctively. Sam Phillips overheard, loved it, and told them to record it immediately (06:01).
  • “He said, sounded pretty good through the door. Said, let's put it on tape, see what it sounds like.” — Scotty Moore (06:01)

Picking Songs, Creative Process, and Impact

• Song Selection Methods:

  • Elvis insisted on personally picking songs, sifting through demo acetates with a discerning ear (07:43–09:08).
  • “He was very particular about songs. He had to get into them, feel them good.” — Scotty Moore (07:48)
  • “Don’t Be Cruel” was one demo so plucked and recorded (09:12).

• Signature Guitar: "Mystery Train"

  • Moore calls it his “signature song,” originally a slow R&B number now made upbeat, showcasing his inventive rhythm (09:29–09:58).

• National Breakthrough and Heartbreak Hotel

  • True national “hysteria” didn’t hit until TV appearances on the Dorsey Brothers shows (11:23).
  • When asked about the most-copied solo:
    • “Probably Heartbreak Hotel, maybe. I don't know. I've never been asked that before. Can we do a survey?” — Scotty Moore (12:09)

• Studio Experiments & The Echo Sound:

  • RCA tried to recreate Sun’s echo, putting a speaker and mic at each end of a tiled hallway for deep room echo (12:28–14:10).
  • “RCA ... didn't think about it ... at That point [reverb/echo] was sound effects they used in the movies. They weren't using them for recording. And then here comes this. And it's so drastic, but it worked for the song.” — Scotty Moore (13:34)
  • “One thing that Sam did ... he pulled Elvis's voice back close to the music. You know, all the Sinatra and all those things where the voice is so far out in front. And he more or less used Elvis's voice as another instrument into the mix, but didn't bury him like a lot of the rock things, you know, later.” — Scotty Moore (13:52)

• On Spontaneity:

  • None of the iconic guitar parts were written beforehand—everything was “spur of the moment.”
  • “Everything we ever did was just spur of the moment.” — Scotty Moore (14:18)

Life Beyond Elvis

• 1970s and Comeback:
  • Moore stopped performing after 1968’s “Comeback Special,” then spent 24 years in business ventures (16:27–17:45).
  • Restarted playing after a Carl Perkins session in 1992.
  • “The thing that really got me, when I realized it was in my blood, ... I went to Memphis and did the show with Carl. ... And I'm thinking to myself, you're supposed to be nervous and I walked out and just bothered me to bed, and I was really surprised. And that's when I told myself, it's in your blood. You might as well admit it.” — Scotty Moore (18:49)

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Segment 2: Carl Perkins — "Blue Suede Shoes & Sun Records Stories"

Interview recorded 1996
Timestamps: 23:04–47:41

Writing "Blue Suede Shoes" — The Origin Story

• Inspiration Struck in a Honky Tonk:

  • Perkins saw a dancer get upset about his "blue suedes" being stepped on — a moment that stuck with him (23:13–25:29).
  • That night, unable to sleep, Perkins combined the nursery rhyme “One for the money…” with the incident, writing lyrics on a paper bag (25:33).
  • “I took three Irish potatoes out of a brown paper sack ... My wife saved that sack. The original words, the blue Suede Shoes, is hanging in my den.” — Carl Perkins (25:51)

• Accidental Lyric: "Go, Cat, Go!"

  • Intended to sing “Go, man, go,” Perkins got excited and sang “Go, cat, go” by mistake. Sam Phillips insisted on keeping it (26:13).
  • "He said, I heard you, and he's going to stay a cat.” — Carl Perkins (26:39)

• Chart Milestone & Covers

  • “Blue Suede Shoes” became the first record to top pop, R&B, and country charts simultaneously (27:06).
  • Many covered it; Perkins jokes, "You ought to hear it in the Japanese language." (27:21)

Elvis’ Version and Rockabilly Evolution

• Elvis’ Respect:

  • Elvis waited months before recording his version, allowing Carl’s single to have its run (27:51–28:56).
  • "…he wanted me to have success with it, and he thought I would have if he stayed off of it. And that's what he did.” — Carl Perkins (28:56)

• Elvis vs. Perkins — Different Grooves

  • Elvis recorded a faster, more driving version, which Perkins admits he soon mimicked (29:15–30:34).
  • "Elvis did it faster than I did. ... I drifted into doing it like he did, you know, faster. ... Harrison [The Beatles] said, ‘Man, you do it different than anybody ever did, and now you’re doing it like everybody else.’” — Carl Perkins (30:04)

• Blending Genres

  • Perkins didn’t consciously set out to create a new genre, but noticed audience reactions were seismic (30:34).
  • "We did know that it was different."
  • He credits up-tempo gospel heard in cotton fields and blending R&B, country, and gospel for his sound — developed as early as age 16 in honky tonks and influenced by African-American field music (31:21–33:59).

Breaking In at Sun Records

• Persistence at Sun:

  • Encouraged by wife Valda, Perkins went to Memphis after hearing Elvis on the radio (35:58).
  • Met Sam Phillips, who nearly rejected him, but eventually gave him a shot after Perkins insisted (36:04–38:35).
  • The secret: when the official audition seemed flat, Perkins sang his heart out when he thought no one was listening — catching Phillips’ attention (38:50).

• First Recordings & The Term “Rockabilly”

  • Originally released a country ballad "Turn Around"; couldn't record more uptempo songs until Elvis left for RCA.
  • The term “rockabilly” came later, referring to young artists “rocking our [hillbilly/country] music” (41:00–42:02).

Later Years: Struggles and Revival

• Personal Challenges:

  • In the early ’60s, Carl’s popularity waned; he battled alcoholism and nearly quit music (45:05).
  • “I thought it was erasing memories. ... But alcohol was causing most of this. Thank God I had a Good churchgoing wife...” — Carl Perkins (45:22)

• Revival in England & The Beatles:

  • Perkins received major recognition in England, thanks to The Beatles (who covered “Honey Don’t” and “Matchbox”) (46:01).
  • On inspiring them: “I wrote my own songs, I played my own lead guitar and sang my own songs. … George Harrison does hit a little lick or two that I used on some of my earlier records, but he does it so much better than I ever did.” (46:21–47:28)

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Memorable Quotes

• Scotty Moore:

  • "Everything we ever did was just spur of the moment." (14:18)
  • "He [Elvis] was nervous because ... when we did our in-the-round thing, that made him nervous, but he was anxious ... And he wanted to get back, get back performing." (16:36)
  • "It's in your blood. You might as well admit it." (18:49)

• Carl Perkins:

  • "He thought that much of a pair of stupid shoes to actually hurt her feelings." (23:49)
  • "The word cat flew in there instead of man ... He said, 'I heard you, and he's going to stay a cat.'" (26:13; 26:39)
  • "We didn't know exactly what we were doing, Terry. But we did know that it was different." (30:40)
  • "That was the kind of guy [Elvis] was. He wanted me to have success with it, and he thought I would have if he stayed off of it." (28:56)
  • "I picked cotton with many, many black people ... to this day, I can vividly hear that up tempo gospel music." (33:14)

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• Scotty Moore interview starts: 00:13
• Elvis "That's All Right" recording discussed: 06:01
• "Mystery Train" and Moore's guitar style: 09:29
• National TV and Elvis' impact: 11:23
• Echo and innovative recording at RCA: 12:28–14:10
• Moore on leaving music and returning: 16:27–19:32
• Carl Perkins interview starts: 23:04
• Blue Suede Shoes origin story: 23:13–26:39
• Elvis covers "Blue Suede Shoes": 27:51
• Perkins on Beatles and influence: 46:01
• Perkins on struggling with fame/alcohol: 45:05

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Tone & Style Highlights

• Conversations full of warmth, gratitude, and humility.
• Both musicians emphasize their love of spontaneity and “feel good” music, and appreciate each other’s roles in history.
• Terry Gross’s thoughtful, gentle probing brings out reflective and often humorous anecdotes (“Can we do a survey? Write in, folks, and tell me.” — Scotty Moore, 12:09).

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For Listeners New to This History

This episode captures the humanity, inventiveness, and accidental genius behind the birth of rock and roll in the American South. Both Moore and Perkins—pivotal, if humble—helped forge a musical legacy whose energy, attitude, and cross-genre fusion ripple through popular music to this day.

Transcript

[Scotty Moore]

This message comes from Capital One. Banking with Capital One helps you keep.

[Terry Gross]

More money in your wallet with no.

[Scotty Moore]

Fees or minimums on checking accounts. What's in your wallet?

[Terry Gross]

Terms apply.

[Scotty Moore]

See capitalone.com bank for details.

[Terry Gross]

Capital One NA Member FDIC this is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross. It's a FRESH AIR tradition that the week leading into Labor Day, we do a themed series of interviews from our archive. This week's theme is R and B, rockabilly and early rock and roll. I got that idea while listening to a terrific podcast I recommend called A History of rock music and 500 songs. While listening to the early episodes about the prehistory and early history of rock, I often found myself thinking, wait, that person is in our archive. Those are the people we'll be hearing from. Later today, we'll hear my interview with one of the pioneers of rockabilly, Carl Perkins, who wrote and made the first recording of Blue Suede Shoes. After that, Elvis made his hit recording. We begin our series with the guitarist on Elvis's version, Scotty Moore. He played with Elvis from 1954 to 1964. He reunited with Elvis for his 1968 comeback special. As Peter Guralnick, the author of the definitive biography of Elvis, wrote, guitar players of every generation since rock began have studied and memorized Scotty's licks, even when Scotty himself couldn't duplicate them. Scotty Moore died in 2016 at the age of 84. We're going to hear the interview I recorded with him in 1997 after the publication of his memoir about his years with Elvis called that's All Right, Elvis. The title is a reference to Elvis's first single, that's All Right, which was recorded in 1954 and featured Moore on guitar. It was recorded for Sun Records, the label created and owned by Sam Phillips, on who we'll hear from on tomorrow's show. When we spoke, a box set of previously unreleased Elvis tracks had just been released. We started with a previously unreleased take of Lordy, Miss Claudy.

[Carl Perkins]

Listen for Scotty Moore's solo, G2WB 1293, take one.

[Scotty Moore]

Yeah, something like that.

[Carl Perkins]

Well, Lordy, Lordy, Lordy, Miss Claudette girl, you sure look good to me. Well, please don't excite me, baby, no, it can't be me because I give you all of my money, girl, but you just won't treat me right. You like to ball every morning, don't come home too late at night.

[Terry Gross]

Before, Scotty Moore recorded with Elvis at Sun Records, Moore recorded at sun with his Own country band, the Starlight Wranglers. That's how he got to know the owner and mastermind of Sun Records, Sam Phillips.

[Scotty Moore]

But we became just great friends through that, through that connection. And we'd have coffee next door to a little cafe there and just discuss the business in general. Had you heard so and so, and the record they've got out and the way they're doing it and different sounds. And Sam was always saying, well, if we can just find something different, we can find that little niche, you know, to get in between all this other stuff that's happening. And Marion, his secretary, was having coffee with us one day, and she said, sam, what about that boy I was in about a year ago and cutting that estate for his mother? And Sam said, yeah, best I remember, he had a pretty good voice. And he turned to me and said, give him a call and get him to come over to your house and see what you think about it. I called him. He came over on Sunday afternoon and seems like he knew every song in the world.

[Terry Gross]

Well, when you asked him to come over and do some songs for you, what songs did he sing?

[Scotty Moore]

Everything. I mean, he did Billy Eckstein, he did Eddie Arnold. I don't remember a specific song necessarily, but, I mean, he just knew all his songs.

[Terry Gross]

And did he do them in the style of the singer who had the hit version?

[Scotty Moore]

Yes.

[Terry Gross]

So musically, you thought he was versatile, but you couldn't tell who he was.

[Scotty Moore]

That'S fair to say. And in fact, after he left that day, I called and relayed that basic information to Sam. I said, you remember you told us to go out and get some original material? And he said, well, he said, I'll tell you what, I'll call him and get him. Come in for an audition and said, just you and Bill Black Come in. I don't need the whole band. Just need a little, you know, just a little noise behind him. So the next night we went in, which was the audition, and we were taking a break is when. When the thing exploded, Elvis just jumped up and started just frailing his guitar and singing. That's all right, Mama. Just nervous energy.

[Terry Gross]

Now, that was a song by Arthur Cruda Crudda? Yes. Did you know the song when he was starting to play it?

[Scotty Moore]

No, no, I'd never heard it, so.

[Terry Gross]

So you just started to fill in behind him?

[Scotty Moore]

Right.

[Carl Perkins]

Bill doing the song.

[Scotty Moore]

Bill started just slapping a bass and. And it sounded pretty good, what he was doing. So I started in just playing some kind of rhythm thing with him, too.

[Terry Gross]

And then Sam Phillips, the head of Sun Records, liked it and asked you to lay it down on tape.

[Scotty Moore]

Yeah, he was in the control room. The door was open and. And when we was doing that and he came, stuck his head out door, said what? Said, what are you guys doing? We said, just goofing around, you know. He said, sounded pretty good through the door. Said, let's put it on tape, see what it sounds like.

[Terry Gross]

Well, let's hear the version that was actually released of that's All Right. Elvis Presley, my guest Scotty Moore on guitar.

[Carl Perkins]

Well, that's all right Mama that's all right for you that's all right to mama just any way you do that's all right that's all right that's all right I Mama anyway do well, Mama, she done told me Papa done told me too Son that guy you fooling wishy Ain't all good for you but that's all right that's all right that's all I know Mama anyway do now.

[Terry Gross]

Tell me the truth, after you started recording with Elvis, the. You think this guy's a great singer or were you thinking this guy's okay?

[Scotty Moore]

Oh, well, we became more aware after just three records that he liked to challenge. But he was very particular about songs. He had to get into them, feel them good. Now, true, most of the stuff on sun was. It wasn't original material. There were. There were some. There were remakes of RB and some couple of country things like Milk Cow Blues and things like that. But when we went to rca, things changed. He was absolutely picking his own material in. And we'd go into the session and have a stack 2ft high of acetates in the first couple hours he would spend going through those. And he might listen to eight bars and zap across the room. Then he'd listen about halfway and he put that in another stack to come back and listen to again.

[Terry Gross]

These are what demos that had been.

[Scotty Moore]

Made for demos, right. And that's the way he did it. And very few times did I ever see him. That one he had kept in the maybe stack and that we would actually try that. He would then throw it away after he heard it back. He had that good of ear.

[Terry Gross]

Do you remember one of the songs that was picked out of the demo pile like that?

[Scotty Moore]

I think Don't Be Cruel was picked like that. Of course, Hill and Reagan could try to keep their main writers and what they thought at the top of the stack too, you know.

[Terry Gross]

Let me play another record from the sun sessions. And I thought we'd play Mystery Train.

[Scotty Moore]

Hey, good. That's my signature song.

[Terry Gross]

Yeah.

[Carl Perkins]

So.

[Terry Gross]

So. So tell. Tell me a little bit about what you're playing on this and what it was like to record this track, share some memories about.

[Scotty Moore]

Was a. A slow R B song that Junior Parker had before. Yeah. And we ended up just getting the tempo up more and I changed the rhythm thing around and I've always loved it. It's just a fun thing to do.

[Terry Gross]

Okay, well, this is Mystery Train. Elvis Presley, my guest, Scotty Moore on guitar.

[Carl Perkins]

Train I ride 16 coaches long train I R 16 coaches long.

[Scotty Moore]

While that.

[Carl Perkins]

Long black train got my baby and gone Train, train coming run running the baby train train me coming around well, it took my baby.

[Terry Gross]

You're just joining us. My guest is guitarist Scotty Moore, who we just heard on Mystery Train, and he's written a new autobiography called that's All Right, Elvis. When did you start realizing that Elvis was really catching on in a very emotional way with his fans?

[Scotty Moore]

I would say that after we did the first couple of TV shows with Tommy and Jimmy Dorsey, after we went to rca, before that, most of our shows and stuff had been all in the Southeast. And there had been some, granted that starting to see the hysteria and so forth, but it really didn't come come home to us till we did those shows. That national exposure then just seemed like the floodgates opened up, you know.

[Terry Gross]

What would you say is your most copied guitar solo from the Elvis records or one of the most?

[Scotty Moore]

Probably Heartbreak Hotel maybe. I don't know. I've never been asked that before. Can we do a survey? Write in, folks, and tell me.

[Terry Gross]

Well, why don't we go for Heartbreak Hotel? Tell me your memories of this session.

[Scotty Moore]

Well, of course, that was the first one on rca. They were trying to get basically the same sound that Sam was getting at, gotten with us in Memphis. They had this big long hallway out in the front that had the tile floor. So they put a big speaker at one end of it and mike at the other end. And the sign do not enter. And they used that. That's where it ended up with that deep, real room echo instead of the tape delay echo that Salmon used. Now, there is. It's hard to hear. There is a little tape delay on it. But either their tape machine didn't match his, so it's just very slight. And then they ended up with just. With the acoustic gecko. I'll give them credit. They didn't. I don't think they knew. Maybe they didn't think about it. But Rumiko at That point was sound effects they used in the movies. They weren't using them for recording. And then here comes this. And it's so drastic, but it worked for the song. When you say, you know, at the end of Lonely street, it's so distant. And I like to say this, if you don't mind, in speaking these technical things, One thing that Sam did that I don't believe he realized when he was doing it. And I didn't until years later that I got into engineering. He pull Elvis's voice back close to the music. You know, all the Sinatra and all those things where the voice is so far out in front. And he more or less used Elvis's voice as a.

[Terry Gross]

Another instrument into the mix.

[Scotty Moore]

Into the mix, but didn't bury him like a lot of the rock things, you know. Later.

[Terry Gross]

Right now, your solo on Heartbreak Hotel. Is that something you had prepared before the session, or is this something you had worked out?

[Scotty Moore]

No, no, no. Everything we ever did was just spur of the moment.

[Terry Gross]

Did you learn the song at the session, or did you know it before that?

[Scotty Moore]

No, learned it at the session.

[Terry Gross]

Well, all right, let's hear it. 1956, Heartbreak Hotel.

[Carl Perkins]

Well, since my baby left me Will I find a new place to dwell? Well, it's down at the end of a street that Heartbreak Hotel Where I'll.

[Scotty Moore]

Be, I'll be just so lonely, baby well, I'm so lonely I'll be just.

[Carl Perkins]

So lonely I could die Although it's always crowded you still can find some room for brokenhearted mothers to cry There.

[Scotty Moore]

In a gloomy soul Think it's a lonely baby I'll make you so lonely.

[Carl Perkins]

Her is so lonely they could die now the bellhouse tears keep flowing and the death clerks dress in black well, they've been so long on the street.

[Scotty Moore]

They'Ll never, never look back and think.

[Carl Perkins]

You'Re so lonely Think you're so lonely well, they're so lonely well, they're so.

[Scotty Moore]

Lonely and they could die well, if.

[Carl Perkins]

You'Re a bad believer and you got a tail the tail. We just take a walk down on the street to Heartbreak Hotel where you.

[Scotty Moore]

Will be weakest so lonely, baby Will you be lonely?

[Carl Perkins]

You'll be so lonely you could die.

[Terry Gross]

At Heartbreak Hotel My guest, Scotty Moore on guitar, and he's written an autobiography, which of course includes his years playing guitar with Elvis Presley. It's called that's All Right, Elvis. When did you stop playing with Elvis? And what was behind Stopping the.

[Scotty Moore]

Well, actually, the 1968 Special, which now they call the Comeback Special, that great.

[Terry Gross]

TV special where he's wearing the leather jacket and the leather pants.

[Scotty Moore]

He was. I mean, he would. Might sound funny for a man, but he was an absolute adonis on that show. He looked good, he was in great shape. And if that man had a pill in him at that point, well, I'd like for him to prove it to me. I mean, he was just. And he was ready. He was nervous because when he found out he was going to have to. These two little groups they brought in when we did our in the round thing, that made him nervous, but he was anxious. He only had, I think, one more movie to finish before all the contracts were done. And he wanted to get back, get back performing. That's. That's where he was best at what he loved to do.

[Terry Gross]

When you stopped playing with Elvis, you virtually gave up the guitar for, I don't know, close to 25 years, 24 years.

[Scotty Moore]

Right.

[Terry Gross]

And I guess I can't understand that.

[Scotty Moore]

Well, after I sold my studio, then I started a tape duplicating company and then also an industrial printing company. And so I was pretty busy. I mean, there really wasn't time for thinking about playing. I sold what guitars I had.

[Terry Gross]

You started playing again, what, in the early 90s was it?

[Scotty Moore]

92.

[Terry Gross]

And what was behind that?

[Scotty Moore]

Well, I have to back up a little bit there. About 18 two years. 90, I went to a little gathering for Carl Perkins. Carl and I, of course, had known each other from Sundays. I had done one session with Carl in 75. He wrote a song with all Elvis song titles called EP Express. But other than that, we never had recorded anything together. And that's when this guy asked us, why don't you two guys record something? And Carl and I looked at the other and said, well, why not?

[Terry Gross]

When you picked up your guitar about 24 years after you put it down to record with Carl Perkins, had you played it, I mean, did you remember how to play? Had you played at home in the interim?

[Scotty Moore]

No, I didn't even have any guitars.

[Terry Gross]

Gosh. Can you tell me you didn't miss it those years?

[Scotty Moore]

I really didn't. I thought about that really hard and it. Well, I was so busy doing other things, I guess. But the thing that really got me when I realized it was in my blood. The Elvis celebration. August of that year. 92, I went to Memphis and did the show with Carl. And I'm standing over in the wings, Carl's fixing to bring me out. And I'm thinking to myself, you're supposed to be nervous and I walked out and just bothered me to bed, and I was really surprised. And that's when I told myself, it's in your blood. You might as well admit it.

[Terry Gross]

Well, Scotty Moore, I'm really glad you're playing again and a pleasure to have the chance to talk with you.

[Carl Perkins]

Terry.

[Scotty Moore]

It's been a pleasure and enjoyable.

[Terry Gross]

My interview with Scotty Moore was recorded in 1997. He died in 2016 at age 84. After we take a short break, we'll hear from Carl Perkins, the rockabilly guitarist and singer who wrote and first recorded Blue Suede Shoes and a song the Beatles later recorded, Honey, Don't. Let's listen to, the song Moore and Perkins recorded together in 1975. This is EP Express. I'm Terry Gross, and this is FRESH AIR.

[Carl Perkins]

Americans are living longer than ever before. On the Sunday Story from Up first, we look at a growing number of people using these extra years to find new meaning.

[Scotty Moore]

You get at a point where you start asking, what did you do in your life that was significant?

[Carl Perkins]

A look at the transformative power of human passion and finding your purpose in the third act of life. Listen now on the up first podcast from npr.

[Terry Gross]

If you're a robot, this might not be the show for you. But if you're a human with hopes, dreams and bills to pay, the Life Kit podcast might be just what you need. Three times a week, Life Kit brings you a fresh set of solutions to.

[Carl Perkins]

Help you tackle topics big and small.

[Terry Gross]

From how to save money on groceries to how to bring the house down at karaoke. You know, human stuff. Listen to the Life Kit podcast from npr Presentado por me, Mariel Segarra.

[Scotty Moore]

I'm Peter Sagal.

[Terry Gross]

NPR is very serious.

[Scotty Moore]

Mostly, it treats newsmakers with all due.

[Carl Perkins]

Respect almost all the time. It brings you the most important information.

[Scotty Moore]

About the issues that really matter, usually.

[Carl Perkins]

And it never asks famous people about.

[Terry Gross]

Things they don't know anything about, except.

[Carl Perkins]

Once in a while. Join us for the great exception.

[Scotty Moore]

Listen to Wait, Wait, don't tell Me.

[Carl Perkins]

The News Quiz from npr.

[Terry Gross]

This is FRESH air. I'm Terry Gross. Let's continue our week of interviews from our archive with R and B, rockabilly and early rock and roll music and songwriters. Up next, we have Carl Perkins, one of the originators of rockabilly. Perkins singing, guitar playing and songwriting brought together country and rock and roll. He recorded at Sun Records, the label that also launched the careers of Elvis Presley, Jerry Lee Lewis, Johnny Cash and Roy Orbison. Perkins was best known for writing the song Blue Suede Shoes in 1956, his version of Blue Suede Shoes was a pop, rhythm and blues and country hit. Soon after, Elvis had a huge hit with the song. Perkins also wrote Honey don't, which was covered by the Beatles. Later on, Perkins songs were recorded by Dolly Parton, the Judds, and George Strait. I spoke with him in 1996 after he'd written a memoir. He died two years later at the age of 65. Here's Perkins recording of his best known song, blue Suede Shoes.

[Carl Perkins]

Well, it's one for the money, two for the show, three to get ready, now go Cat door. But don't you step on my blue suede shoes. You can do anything but pay off of my blue suede shoes. But you can knock me down, step in my face, slander my name all over the place and do anything that you want to do. But honey, lay up in my shoes. And don't you step on my blue suede shoes. You can do anything but lay off of my blue suede shoes.

[Terry Gross]

Carl Perkins, welcome to FRESH air.

[Carl Perkins]

Thank you, Terri. It's a pleasure to be here.

[Terry Gross]

I'd love to hear the story of how you wrote Blue Suede Shoes.

[Carl Perkins]

Well, I'd love to share it with you. It was October 21, 1955. I was playing what we called back in those days, a honky tonk. They call them clubs now, but it was a honky tonk where people get together and scream and holler and dance and have a good time. And I had not owned a pair of blue suede shoes at this point. I'd seen a few of them around my hometown in Jackson, Tennessee. And. But at the end of a song, this couple had been dancing, a very attractive young lady and a cat that had on a pair of blue suedes. And at the end of the song, he said, huh? Don't step on my suedes. And it bothered me, you know, not having owned a pair. I didn't realize that, you know, if you step on them, you kind of got to brush them off a little bit. It discolors the toe of them. But the thing that bothered me was he thought that much of a pair of stupid shoes to actually hurt her feelings. So I went home that night and I just. I could not go to sleep. I mean, I just kept seeing her face. And she said, oh, I'm sorry. And she really was. And I laid there and I thought of the old nursery rhyme, one for the money, two for the show, three to get ready and four to go. I got up, went down the concrete steps, I Was living in a government project house and I got my guitar down and I said, well, there's a One for the money, da dun dun Two for the show. And I never will forget. I couldn't find any paper to write on because we had two small children. My wife Valda, who, thank God, is after 44 years, all of our folks lived close by. So I guess we had no need to have, you know, writing paper. So I took three Irish potatoes out of a brown paper sack. I did, and bless her heart, she saved that sack. The original words, the blue Suede Shoes, is hanging in my den in Jackson, Tennessee, and I never will forget. I called Sam Phillips at Sun Studios down here in Memphis, who had a boy by the name of Elvis who had a couple of records already out at that time. And I said, Mr. Phillips wrote me a good song last night. He said, what is it? I said, I guess we'll call it maybe Blue Suede Shoes. He said, is it anything like, oh, them Golden Slippers? I said, no, man, this is about a cat that I don't want nobody stepping on. He said, it sounds interesting.

[Terry Gross]

Now, as you pointed out, the nursery rhyme is three to get ready and four to get ready and four to go. So how did it become Go, cat, Go?

[Carl Perkins]

Well, the original line there that I came up with, I said, three to get ready now go, man, go. I wrote the song Go, man, Go, and the first attempt I made at recording it, I said, go, man. And then I got excited because I could tell through the glass control window that Mr. Phillips was liking this song. And I got excited and forgot the word man on my original record. There is a slight pause. I said, three to get ready now go, cat, go. But don't you. The word cat flew in there instead of man. And. And after I got through with it, he said, that's it. I said, Mr. Phillips, I made a terrible mistake. I called that man a cat. He said, I heard you, and he's going to stay a cat.

[Terry Gross]

Now, this was the first rock and roll record to top the pop charts, rhythm and blues charts, and country charts at the same time.

[Carl Perkins]

Yeah, it was.

[Terry Gross]

And a lot of people made their own recordings of Blue Suede Shoes, Lawrence Welk among them.

[Carl Perkins]

Yeah, he sure did. Pee Wee King and the Golden West Cowbo, every kind of version. And, you know, to this day, Cherry, this song still gets put on albums all around the world. It's amazing. You ought to hear it in the Japanese language.

[Terry Gross]

Now, of course, Elvis Presley did a version of your song. How did he end up doing it.

[Carl Perkins]

When my record came out, January 2, 1956, of Blue Suede Shoes, RCA Victor contacted Elvis. They had bought him from Sun Records at that point. And they said, elvis, there's a hit song out there. You need to. We want you to get in the studio and record it. He said, there's a lot of hits out there. What are you talking about? And Steve Sholtz, allegedly was a man who recorded Elvis back in the early part of his career at Victor, said the song's Blue Suede Shoes. He said, yes, sir, you're right. I think it's a hit song myself, but that's my friend Carl Perkins, and that's a Sun record. And he didn't want to do that song at the time they wanted him to, which was in January of 1956. He waited until April of that year, letting my record do what it was going to, and then he recorded it. And that was the kind of guy he was. You know, he could have jumped on it first, and nobody would have ever known Carl Perkins existed. But because of the nature of this fine individual human being named Elvis, he wanted me to have success with it, and he thought I would have if he stayed off of it. And that's what he did.

[Terry Gross]

What do you think of his version?

[Carl Perkins]

I loved it. You know, I fell into the trap. Elvis did it faster than I did. And I love. In the music industry, we call it the groove. The beat that he put to it was uptempoed from mine quite a bit. And I loved his so much till I. I drifted into doing it like he did, you know, faster. And when I. I met the Beatles in 1964 in England, and they. We was at a party and they wanted me to do, you know, blue Suede Shoes. And I did. And Harrison said, why don't you do it like you did it? I said, well, I think I am. He said, no, you're not. My record was, well, it's a one for the money, a definite two stops, you know. And Elvis was, well, it's a one for the money, two for the show. Pow. It was a one leg. And Harrison was really disturbed with that. He said, man, you do it different than anybody ever did, and now you're doing it like everybody else. But I really liked Elvis's record of it. I still to this day do. And I catch myself unconsciously speeding it up to the very groove he had it.

[Terry Gross]

Did you think of yourself as trying something new, bringing together rock and roll and country?

[Carl Perkins]

Well, we didn't know exactly what we were doing Terry. But we did know that it was different. We did know that instead of leaning back and sitting comfortably in their theater seats or wherever we were playing, these people were scooting around, moving, some were getting up, shaking, young people were dancing in the aisles. And we knew that we were causing a stir with this. And it wasn't as far as I was concerned or any of the guys in the early days, we didn't feel like it was anything wrong with what we were doing.

[Terry Gross]

Did you develop that style playing in honky tonks?

[Carl Perkins]

Oh, yeah. You moved there because of a flying bottle or an ashtray flying at some cat's head close to the stage. Yeah, you're on your toes playing in those places. And even, you know, back in those years, I was playing the same kind of music that was later recorded in Memphis in 54. I started playing the Tonks when I was, gosh, 16, 17 years old. And I played, I did Roy Acuff's Great Speckled Bird or Wabash Cannonball. But I, you know, I said, what a beautiful thought. Lord, I'm thinking that old upright bass we. My daddy used to tell me he'd say, son, put that guitar back on the nail. You are messing up Mr. Acuff's song. He don't do it that fast and there ain't no need in you doing it. And rest my mama's soul, it was her who would say, buck, leave the little fellow alone. He's not hurting Mr. Acuff's song. And because of what she would say to him, he backed off of me. And I just always felt good playing my songs up tempo because that's the music I heard in the cotton fields. I picked cotton with many, many black people. And we'd start singing, they would, and I'd start singing with them. Two or three o' clock in the afternoon with the sun beating down on you. You know, I could hear Uncle John Westbrook saying, m about 10 rolls over sister 1e. And my little blood start boiling. I say, wow, they fixing the scene, gonna lay down my burdens. The ones who didn't know the words used their voices. And to this day, Terry, I can vividly hear that up tempo gospel music. Then I'd go home at night and get my old beat up guitar off of the wall from the nail. And I tried to make the strings, you know, sound like the voices I was hearing when I do some glad morning. My bass strainer going, doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. That was filling in for the, for the sounds of the voices I heard in the cotton fields.

[Terry Gross]

We're listening Back to my 1996 interview with Carl Perkins. We'll continue the interview after a break. This is There's a lot of news happening. You want to understand it better, but let's be honest, you don't want it to be your entire life either. Well, that's sort of like our show Here and Now Anytime.

[Scotty Moore]

Every weekday on our podcast, we talk.

[Terry Gross]

To people all over the country about everything from political analysis to climate resilience, video games. We even talk about dumpster diving on this show. Check out here and now Anytime, A daily podcast from NPR and WBUR. On the next through line from NPR, the man who saw a dangerous omission in the U.S. constitution and took it upon himself to fix it.

[Carl Perkins]

If something happened to a president who was still alive, the consequences for the country would have been enormous.

[Terry Gross]

The 25th Amendment. Listen in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. Shortwave thinks of science as an invisible force showing up in your everyday life, powering the food you eat, the medicine you use, the tech in your pocket. Science is approachable because it's already part of your life. Come explore these connections on the Short Wave podcast from npr. FRESH air this is FRESH air. Let's get back to my interview with Carl Perkins, one of the originators of rockabilly. He wrote and recorded Blue Suede Shoes, which was also recorded by Elvis, and Honey don't, which the Beatles later recorded. There's a great story about how you ended up going to Memphis to record at Sun Studios. Your wife heard Elvis Presley on the radio singing Blue Moon of Kentucky, and she called you and she said, look, there's someone on the radio who sounds like you because you and Elvis were both putting together country music, rhythm and blues and rock and roll. And when you heard that, you went right to Memphis to the Sun Studios to see if Sam Phillips would record you, too.

[Carl Perkins]

You're right about that.

[Terry Gross]

So was he willing to give you a shot right away? Did you have to work hard to convince him?

[Carl Perkins]

If I hadn't have felt that was my only opportunity, I wouldn't even turned around. I'd have put it in reverse and backed back to Jackson because he wasn't there. When I walked in. My brothers were sitting out in the car, and I went into the little front office there, and a lady by the name of Maren Kiesler, who was Sam Phillips secretary, who was really the lady who found Elvis Presley. She told Sam about this good looking boy and how unique he Sang. He came in to make a record for his mama, paid $3 for it. It was called Memphis Recording Service then. But I walked in and I guess she could tell by looking at me that I was a hungry guitar picker. And she said, if you come to audition, you're out of luck. Because we got this boy Elvis, and he's more than we can handle. Mr. Phillips is not listening to anybody. I said, well, I appreciate it. It's all right. We set out front for a while till he gets here. And just a few seconds after, a few minutes really after that, he pulled in and he got a little close to my old Plymouth. Cause I was in his parking place and right in front door. And he whipped in there in that two tone 54 Cadillac Coupe de Ville. I never will forget it. It was dark blue and light blue. And he got out, he had on a dark blue pair of pleated pants with a light blue coat. I said, wow, that's either Elvis Presley or the cat that owns this place. I beat him to the front door. I had my foot in the door. I said, Mr. Phillips, I'm call. That's my brother sitting there in the car. And I was talking 90 miles an hour. We come down, we want to make a record for you. He said, I just. I'm too busy, man. I just. He told me after that, he said, carl, I don't know why I listened to you. I had no intentions. I was wrapped up with what I was going to do to get records pressed of this boy Elvis. But you look like your world would have ended. And I said, Mr. Phillips, it might have. Cause my heart was. I was just aching to get in that studio. I just felt, you know, with encouragement from my wife, I thought, I can't let Val down. I gotta get in there. And we did.

[Terry Gross]

So Sam Phillips gave you a shot. What did he do? Asked you to play a lot of your songs.

[Carl Perkins]

My brother Jay had a couple of songs that he'd written. So Jay started doing one that he'd written. And he stopped him after about one verse. He said, no, I've got anything else. He did another one and got about that far. And he stopped him again. Jay liked a country singer by the name of Ernest Tubb. And had developed a style like him because he loved him so much. And he sounded a little bit like him. And I never will forget. Mr. Phillips said, Boy, there's already an Ernest Tub. You need to forget about him. Your song's pretty good, but I can't use you guys. And I didn't realize. We didn't know the microphone was still on. And he was back in the control room. I said, boys, don't put them. They started put their instruments back in the cases and I said, don't put them up. I'm going to do him one of mine. We can't leave here. But he was hearing this and he heard a convicted little old skinny armed boy by the name of Carl Perkins that when I got the shot, he walked back through there. I said, Mr. Phillips, will you listen to one on my song? He said, yeah, take off. So he stood there, but I got real nervous because after I got past the first verse, he hadn't stopped me. And I thought, oh, Lord, he's gonna listen to the whole song. And I got to jumping around. And the first thing he said to me after I did that, he said, that's a cute song and I like it. He said, can you sing standing still? He said, you're gonna have to, because if you ever make a record, you're gonna have to stand still. I said, yes, sir, I can do whatever you tell me to. And he said, well, I like that song. Go home and write you another one in that vein and we'll talk about putting a record out. So on the way back to Jackson In a 40 model Plymouth, I must have written 10 or 15 songs on the dashboard. And I called him back in a couple of weeks. I had a thing he liked. It was a country song called Turnarounds. And that was my first record.

[Terry Gross]

Well, why don't we hear Turnaround, your first recording? And this is different from what we've heard. This isn't. This is more of a country ballad than an uptempo rockabilly song.

[Carl Perkins]

Yeah. Now, the song on the other side was a rockabilly country thing called Movie Mag. But he liked. I tell you what he told me. He said, this boy Elvis, is doing I know where your heart is, but he's got that ball and going with it. And I can't have two of you cats sounding a lot alike and singing this. This up tempo. We call it feel good music. There was no word, no name for it at that point. Some of the hillbillies in Nashville, I think rockabilly sprang out of there. They said, you know, them boys in Memphis are rocking our music. So it got called rockabilly and it kind of stuck there. But he didn't feel like that he had room for Elvis and I doing the same kind of music. So he told me, he said, I'm gonna. I'm gonna put out this song, turn Around. And then he sold Elvis, Darcy, Victor, and he said, now you can rock. So I that's when I came up with Blue Suede Shoes and Honey Don't.

[Terry Gross]

Oh, that's interesting. Well, why don't we hear the country ballad that you Turn around.

[Carl Perkins]

Ok. When you're all alone and blue and the world looks down on you, Turn around, I'll be following you. When you feel that love is gone and you feel like a wrong, Turn around, I'll be following you. Turn around, I'll be waiting behind you With a love that's real and never ever die. If you feel your love will last and you like to live your past, Turn around, I'll be following you.

[Terry Gross]

We're listening Back to my 1990, 1996 interview with Carl Perkins. We'll hear more of it after a break. This is Pop culture Happy hour. NPR's easy, breezy, laid back pop culture.

[Scotty Moore]

Podcast has brought you the best in.

[Terry Gross]

Culture for the past 15 years.

[Scotty Moore]

That means we spent the last 15 years talking about what exactly?

[Terry Gross]

Bad reality TV actually good. Marvel Movies?

[Scotty Moore]

Actually Awful.

[Carl Perkins]

Marvel Movies reboots pop music, prestige dramas, Netflix slop. That's 15 years of buzzy pop culture chit chat. And here's to many more with you along for the ride.

[Terry Gross]

Listen to Pop Culture Happy Hour on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. NPR's Wildcard podcast is all about embracing the unexpected, like when Harrison Ford stopped by.

[Carl Perkins]

My phone just rang.

[Terry Gross]

Jay Leno is calling you right now.

[Carl Perkins]

About my toilet seat. Yeah, Jay's printing a 3D printed toilet seat for me.

[Terry Gross]

What? Listen to NPR's Wildcard. Wherever you you get your podcasts or watch it on YouTube. Fresh air. This is fresh air. Let's get back to my interview with Carl Perkins, one of the early rockabilly performers. He wrote and recorded Blue Suede Shoes, which was later recorded by Elvis. And he wrote and recorded Honey don't, which was later recorded by the Beatles. After the rockabilly era, sometime in the early 60s, your music wasn't doing that well commercially anymore. And you decided to give up music back then. Why did you want to give it up?

[Carl Perkins]

Well, I was drinking a lot. I was drinking because I thought I really can't pinpoint why I got so deep into alcohol. I thought it was erasing memories. It was causing me maybe to dodge the real problems that were out there for me, and that was the crowds were falling off. My music was suffering, but alcohol was causing most of this. Thank God I had a Good churchgoing wife who kept raising my children in the right direction and praying that I'd see the light. And one day I did. And life's been wonderful ever since. But it got. It got bad for a while. It sure did.

[Terry Gross]

Now, after you started feeling forgotten and neglected in America, you became a real hero in England. The Beatles did some of your songs, including Honey Don't.

[Carl Perkins]

Yeah.

[Terry Gross]

How did you end up getting so popular there? Did you tour England?

[Carl Perkins]

Yeah, I did. I went over 1964 with Chuck Berry, who had not been to England at that time. And the tour was very, very successful. And this was before the Beatles came to America, a month or two before they came. And I met them over there and come find out, you know. They told me that they'd been listening to a lot of my old sun records and liked what I did and kind of inspired them. I think the inspiration I gave the Beatles was the fact that I wrote my own songs, I played my own lead guitar and sang my own songs. And this is what they. And if I inspired them, it was in that way. I don't think, and never will think that it was my quality of music. Although George Harrison does hit a little lick or two that I used on some of my earlier records, but he does it so much better than I ever did. But you're right, I have been pretty successful in England, and I still go over every year. And most of the years I'll do a couple of tours over there. Rockabilly music's held up real well, and for some reason or another, old Carl Perkins just feels good over there with those kids. They won't sit down, and I just. I just, you know, I come alive and rock with them.

[Terry Gross]

Well, I'm glad you're still recording. I really enjoy this. Thank you so much for talking with us.

[Carl Perkins]

Oh, it's been a treat, girl. Anytime just holler Carl Perkins will be on this end of the line. Thank you so very much.

[Terry Gross]

My interview with Carl Perkins was recorded in 1996. He died two years later at the age of 65.

[Carl Perkins]

Well, how come you say you will when you won't? You tell me you do, baby when you don't Let me know, honey, how you feel Tell the truth now Is love real? Oh, honey, don't well, honey, don't.

[Terry Gross]

Tomorrow on Fresh Air, we'll continue our rb, Rockabilly and early rock and roll series with Sam Phillips, whose Sun Record label was the first to record Elvis Presley, Carl Perkins, Jerry Lee Lewis, and Johnny Cash. And will feature my interview with Johnny Cash. I hope you'll join us. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Anne Marie Bodonado, Lauren Krenzo, Theresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Yakundi, Anna Bauman and John Sheehan. Our digital media producer is Molly Sivi Nesburg. Our consulting visual producer is Hope Wilson. Roberta Shorrock directs the show. Our co host is Tanya Mosley. I'm Terry Groves. Stars they're just like us. John Legend goes to cvs. Well, that's because he has his own skincare line.

[Carl Perkins]

It was so exciting to actually go.

[Scotty Moore]

Into one of those stores.

[Carl Perkins]

We had the end caps.

[Terry Gross]

Were you like, I don't want this locked up? John Legend is one of many stars riding the celebrity branding wave. He tells us about it on the indicator from Planet Money. Listen in the NPR app or wherever you got your podcasts, do you ever look at political headlines and go, huh? Well, that's exactly why the NPR Politics Podcast exists. We're experts not just on politics, but in making politics make sense. Every episode, we decode everything that happened in Washington and help you figure out what it all means. Give politics a chance with the NPR Politics Podcast, available wherever you get your podcasts.