Seth Rogen Lands The 'Tragic' Job Of Studio Head

Summary

Fresh Air: Seth Rogen Lands The 'Tragic' Job Of Studio Head

Episode Release Date: March 18, 2025

Hosts: Tonya Mosley and Terry Gross
Guest: Seth Rogen

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Introduction to "The Studio"

In this episode of Fresh Air, host Tonya Mosley engages in an in-depth conversation with Seth Rogen about his latest venture, the satirical comedy series "The Studio". Co-created by Rogen and his longtime collaborator Evan Goldberg, the show is a humorous yet poignant exploration of the contemporary Hollywood landscape through the eyes of a newly appointed studio head.

Inspiration Behind the Series

Rogen and Goldberg drew inspiration from a pivotal moment in their early careers. Recalling a meeting from the year 2000, Rogen shares how a cynical studio executive's admission—"I got into this job because I love movies, and now I feel like it's my job to ruin them" (00:55)—sparked the creation of "The Studio." This sentiment forms the crux of the series, where Rogen portrays Matt Remick, a passionate yet overwhelmed studio head navigating the complexities of modern filmmaking.

Rogen on the Executive's Honesty:
"I was shocked by the honesty. Honestly. I really could tell that he was in that position at that point in his career." (03:19)

Character Development and Themes

Matt Remick is depicted as a character deeply in love with cinema, striving to preserve its artistic integrity while grappling with the commercial pressures of the industry. Rogen delves into Matt's internal struggles, highlighting his ambition, self-preservation instincts, and the constant fear of disappointing both himself and his idols.

Character Traits:
"He’s very panicked and stressed out and wears it on his sleeve and does not try to calm a situation." (08:54)

The series also addresses current industry challenges such as artificial intelligence, racial sensitivity, and the delicate balance between art and profit. Rogen emphasizes that while the show satirizes Hollywood's quirks, it maintains a sympathetic portrayal of studio executives.

On Balancing Comedy and Tragedy:
"It's a very tragic job. And I think tragedy is comedy in a lot of ways." (05:24)

Production Insights and Cameos

Rogen discusses the meticulous production process, including the decision to shoot scenes in one take to capture authentic reactions and emotions. He shares anecdotes about securing cameos from industry legends like Martin Scorsese and Zoe Kravitz, highlighting the seamless integration of these figures into the show's narrative.

On Martin Scorsese's Involvement:
"He totally just did it and he nailed it. Like, he's so funny in the scenes." (27:09)

Personal Reflections and Industry Observations

Seth Rogen reflects on his personal experiences within Hollywood, drawing parallels between his real-life challenges and those faced by his character. He speaks candidly about receiving critical feedback, the impact of corporate interference on creative projects, and the evolution of his public image.

On Dealing with Criticism:
"If I agree with the criticism, it's much more painful and it's much harder." (34:20)

Rogen also touches on the importance of legacy in filmmaking, referencing icons like Robert Evans and the desire for recognition within the industry.

On Robert Evans' Legacy:
"Robert Evans was an independent producer in Hollywood in the '70s who... championed some of the biggest films of the '70s, like Chinatown and the Godfather." (10:32)

Behind the Scenes: Filming and Aesthetics

The conversation explores the show's aesthetic choices, including the use of 70s-inspired color palettes and iconic Los Angeles architecture to evoke nostalgia and underscore the studio's storied past. Rogen recounts a magical filming moment when a perfect shot coincided with a rainbow appearing just as the sun set.

On Capturing the Perfect Shot:
"We were like, right as the sun was going down, the rain stopped and rainbows appeared." (18:31)

Navigating Personal Ambitions and Public Scrutiny

Rogen candidly discusses the emotional toll of being in the spotlight, especially when creating projects that reflect his personal passions and childhood dreams. He acknowledges the fear of letting down collaborators and idols, balancing this vulnerability with his relentless drive to continue creating meaningful work.

On Facing Public Scrutiny:
"I get to work with these people that I've idolized my whole life... I don't want them to hate me." (28:39)

Conclusion: A Love Letter to Hollywood

"The Studio" serves as both a satirical critique and a love letter to the film industry, capturing its triumphs and tribulations with humor and heart. Seth Rogen's insightful reflections and creative vision offer listeners a behind-the-scenes glimpse into the intricate dance between art and commerce that defines Hollywood.

Rogen on the Show’s Heart:
"It was always something very important... just very funny juxtaposition as well." (20:43)

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Key Quotes:

• "I got into this job because I love movies, and now I feel like it's my job to ruin them." — Studio Executive (00:55)
• "It's a very tragic job. And I think tragedy is comedy in a lot of ways." — Seth Rogen (05:24)
• "Robert Evans was an independent producer in Hollywood in the '70s..." — Seth Rogen (10:32)
• "We make movies that people want to pay to see." — Bryan Cranston (02:13)
• "If I agree with the criticism, it's much more painful and it's much harder." — Seth Rogen (34:20)

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About Fresh Air: "Fresh Air" from WHYY, hosted by Tonya Mosley and Terry Gross, is an award-winning weekday magazine show focusing on contemporary arts and issues. The episode featuring Seth Rogen offers listeners an engaging exploration of his new series, "The Studio," blending humor with insightful commentary on the modern film industry.

Transcript

[Tanya Moseley]

This is Fresh Air. I'm Tonya Moseley. Let's go back to the year 2000. A young Seth Rogen and his writing partner Evan Goldberg have arrived from Canada, and they're meeting with a studio executive to go over a screenplay they've written together. During the meeting, the executive makes a cynical confession. I got into this job because I love movies, he says, and now I feel like it's my job to ruin them. Rogan and Goldberg never forgot what that executive said, and 25 years later, they've made it the basis of a new satirical comedy series called the Studio. Rogan plays Matt Rimick, a Hollywood executive who gets an unexpected promotion as the head of the fictional Continental Studios after his boss is fired. In this scene, the CEO of the studio, played by Bryan Cranston, offers Matt the job, but asks if Matt really has what it takes to do it the Continental way.

[Bryan Cranston]

Patti's time has come and gone, and I'm seriously considering you to replace her.

[Seth Rogen]

Oh, my God. Yes. Yes, I'm the guy. I'm the guy for the job.

[Bryan Cranston]

Why are you? Tell me that. Why are you the guy?

[Seth Rogen]

Well, I've worked at Continental for 22 years. I bought the original spec script for MK Ultra, which, as I'm sure you know, spawned a franchise that's made us over $3 billion.

[Bryan Cranston]

Renee, where the. My green juice? You want a green juice?

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah, I'd love one.

[Bryan Cranston]

Two green juices now.

[Seth Rogen]

Yes, sir.

[Bryan Cranston]

Sorry. Continue.

[Seth Rogen]

Film is my life. Ever since I came to the studio as a kid and went on the tour, being the head of Continental is the only job I've ever wanted.

[Bryan Cranston]

That is adorable. All right, well, listen, I honestly just have one strong reservation about you. Oh, I've heard you are really into artsy fartsy filmmaking.

[Seth Rogen]

Bull.

[Bryan Cranston]

You're obsessed with actors and directors liking you rather than being obsessed with making this stud as much money as possible.

[Seth Rogen]

Me?

[Bryan Cranston]

Yeah.

[Seth Rogen]

That could not be further from the truth. I am as bottom line oriented as anyone in this town.

[Bryan Cranston]

I believe you.

[Seth Rogen]

Great. Good, good.

[Bryan Cranston]

Because at Continental, we don't make films. We make movies. Movies that people want to pay to see.

[Seth Rogen]

Yes.

[Tanya Moseley]

From there, the audience is taken on a funny but also absurd and often cringe worthy adventure. As Matt, always flustered and desperately needing to be liked, has to find ways to keep the studio afloat. Seth Rogen has produced, directed, written, and starred in many films, including Superbad, Knocked up, this Is the End, Sausage Party, and the limited series Pam and Tommy. He founded the production company Point Grey Pictures, along with his writing and directing partner Evan Goldberg. And the two have founded the cannabis products and home goods company Houseplant. And Seth Rogen, welcome back to FRESH air.

[Seth Rogen]

Thank you. What an intro.

[Tanya Moseley]

Well, I really want to go back to this time, 2000. You and Evan are in this executive's office.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah.

[Tanya Moseley]

And he says this thing to you like, I now ruin movies. Like, what was your reaction?

[Seth Rogen]

I was shocked by the honesty, Honestly. I really could tell that he was in a position in that point in his career. And that person still works in Hollywood, is one of the heads of one of the major studios in Hollywood. So he stuck around. And it was an ancient Roman teen sex comedy.

[Tanya Moseley]

Oh, really? Okay, so this wasn't super bad or something.

[Seth Rogen]

This was like, well, what's funny is we had written Superbad and no one was making it. And that's how we got the for this movie. And honestly, we were like, let's just put all of our ideas from Superbad into the movie, basically. And so that's how desperate we were to make something. And so we sort of became like an ancient Roman version of Superbad, which, as I say it is insane. And it was very dirty. It was very dirty. And what I recall, I think at the point in this process, yeah, we had handed in a draft that he really thought was funny and we thought was funny and was ridiculous and crazy. And he was telling us in this notes meeting that like it couldn't be so dirty. And it was clear like the notes he had been given from on high. And so in a very honest moment, he said that. And I don't know if the execs I've worked with over the years would agree, but I've always had a sympathy for. I think because of that, I've always felt like it really humanized the job in a lot of ways and made me understand from a pretty young age. Yeah, a lot of these, not all of them, but a lot of them are people who love movies but who are constantly put in positions where they have to either maybe be fired or do something kind of risky. And I think more of them should do something risky, and that will actually lead to better things. But I understand why they don't. I don't agree with it necessarily, but I understand it. And it's a very comedic situation to be in.

[Tanya Moseley]

Right. I mean, that's the thing. You have a lot of sympathy for them because of this very formative experience for you. But also you say it's like the funniest job in all of Hollywood.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah, it's a Very tragic job. And I think tragedy is comedy in a lot of ways, you know, And a lot of them, yeah, like, because they love movies and they grow up. Now I'm at the age even where, like, some of the people I work with growing, grew up watching our movies and stuff like that. You know what I mean? And for the first time in my life, I'm older than the execs I'm working with at some of these companies. And so I'm one of the people they probably grew up watching. And they are constantly put in a position where they have to say things that make me really mad at them. And I would imagine that's a huge bummer. And I've seen it over and over. I remember an exec hiding from a movie star literally in his office. Cause he was avoiding. Cause the movie wasn't tracking well and he was avoiding.

[Tanya Moseley]

He didn't want to be meeting him on the lot.

[Seth Rogen]

And he knew he was mad. He knew the movie star was there for meeting and was mad and he didn't want to get yelled at, basically. And he's like. I remember him being like, I love that this guy's one of my favorite actors of all time. And he wants to scream at me. And like, that to us was, again, it was just funny. It just always struck us as very funny.

[Tanya Moseley]

Is it true that you interviewed almost every Hollywood executive for this?

[Seth Rogen]

We interviewed a lot of them, whether they knew it or not. Some of them, it was just like us milking information from them without them. And some were very formal interviews where they came in. But a lot of the stuff from those interviews worked their way directly into episodes of the show.

[Tanya Moseley]

Yeah. Okay, let's get into the series because I think you said something like 85% of what is in it is actually true to some extent. And we're talking about interviewing these executives. If this stuff is true. Oh, my gosh. Cause it's like the cringe.

[Seth Rogen]

I think we're actually. And like, if anything, I think we paint a pretty sympathetic picture of the situation that I think to a lot of people's experiences is probably an optimistic view of what Hollywood is.

[Tanya Moseley]

Okay. The characters are phenomenal. I mentioned Catherine O'Hara, who is. She was your boss. She was fired and you take over her job. Ike Barinholtz, who plays this powerful lower level executive desperate for power. He is hilarious.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah, he's great.

[Tanya Moseley]

Kathryn Hahn, who plays this aggressive marketing chief with lots of opinions. Chase Suey Wonders, who plays an ambitious young executive. And she does a couple of shady Things to get over as an ambitious.

[Seth Rogen]

Young executive will do.

[Tanya Moseley]

And then there's the host of actors and filmmakers with very, very fragile egos. And then how would you describe your character, Matt Remick?

[Seth Rogen]

I would describe my character as someone who grew up loving movies and who worked very hard to be someone who got to make movies. And I think he's someone who wishes he was very creative, but is not, and who kind of views himself as creative but simply isn't. And so his avenue to filmmaking, quote, unquote, I guess, became being a studio executive. And he's very ambitious and very self preservational and someone who will do the thing that allows him to keep going rather than to perhaps lose it all. And he's someone who's constantly put in a position to really disappoint both himself and the people that he idolizes and the medium that he idolizes.

[Tanya Moseley]

He's also walking around all the time terrified.

[Seth Rogen]

Yes, he's very panicked and stressed out and wears it on his sleeve and does not. And that's based on some specific people I know, is that they wear their panic clearly like they have a bad poker face. And that is very much something my character has as someone who is never trying to calm a situation and always subscribing to the worst case scenario, basically.

[Tanya Moseley]

But that's like the great tension of the series. So it's set in present day and all of these executives, they're up against the real challenges of the moment. AI plays a big role, racial sensitivity, there's all these different things that. But your character, he wants to make art, he wants to make film.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah. And it's really making fun of me in a lot of ways, you know, And I don't have like the delusions of grandeur. I think my character in the show has. But I think it's inspired by the same belief that like, one movie can change the entire course of Hollywood. And I don't think I'm gonna be the person to make that movie necessarily.

[Tanya Moseley]

But did you want to at one time?

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah. And for sure. And I think if you're a. An ambitious executive who's obsessed with Robert Evans, then you could. Then you really think you could do that, you know. And so I think it's a silly goal to have. And my character has specifically that goal. I think he wants to be viewed as like the savior of this town, you know. And that is not an ambition I specifically have, but it's something that I understand where that idea comes from.

[Tanya Moseley]

You mention Robert Evans and you often reference Him. Can you explain who he is?

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah. Robert Evans was an independent producer in Hollywood in the 70s who eventually became the head of Paramount and essentially, like, championed some of the biggest films of the 70s, like Chinatown and the Godfather. And he was known for being one of the few people who was beloved by the talent, quote, unquote, who made incredibly successful movies and who made incredibly good movies. And he also has the distinction of being, if not the only one of the few studio heads who negotiated in their deal that their name was actually on the movie, which is a big plot line in the show, that your name isn't on the movie. And he actually had his name on the movie even though he was running the studio because he understood the importance of his legacy.

[Tanya Moseley]

That really was such an enlightening moment for me in thinking about how everyone behind the scenes, including the studio execs, how meaningful it is at award ceremonies to hear your name.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah, I've been a part of films that won awards and seen some executives in the wake of that who did not get thanked, and they were literally in tears. And as we interviewed a lot of the execs in Hollywood, that was like, a very common theme where they admitted, like, you want to be thanked by first and last name. And that distinction was brought up by more than one of them, where if it's not first and last name, no one knows.

[Tanya Moseley]

It really brings more meaning to when we're watching those shows and you see the actor or the director and they're, like, naming off the names and they're like, oh, yeah, let me not forget this person.

[Seth Rogen]

Oh, man. One of the most surreal moments of my life was. I'll never forget it. Like, my good friend Jay Bareschel was in Million Dollar Baby, and it was like, literally, me and him alone in my apartment because he was staying with me. He lived in Montreal. We were, like, smoking weed, watching the Oscars, and Million Dollar Baby wins Best Picture. And Clint Eastwood gets up there and he starts thanking. I wanna thank Hillary and Anthony and Jay. And Jay literally, like, leapt off the couch. It was just like, ah. And it was truly, like, an unbelievable moment because, like, here we are in my, like, terrible apartment, disgusting, smoking weed, eating, like, Chinese takeout. And, like, the guy sitting on the couch was thanked by Clint Eastwood as he won Best Picture. The recognition in real time and the recognition, he literally jumped 10ft up in the air. And so I've seen it. And what's funny is, like, I was at the Golden Globes this year, and a lot of people in that episode were there. And people kept coming up to me being like, it's just like the episode. It's exactly like the episode. It's so weird.

[Tanya Moseley]

So meta, right? Yeah. Okay, I want to play a clip. In this scene, Matt, your character goes over to his old boss's house, played by Catherine O'Hara, Patty, and to seek some guidance. And the two talk about how he's handling being the new head of the studio. And O'Hara speaks first.

[Catherine O'Hara]

So how do you feel in all this?

[Seth Rogen]

You know, I've worked, obviously, a long time to get here. My, you know, my parents are very thrilled, very proud. I think Griffin is, you know, optimistic with the plan.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Maddie, not one of those words is about how you feel.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah, I feel miserable, honestly. I'm anxious. I'm stressed out, panicking pretty much all the time. I was so much happier two weeks ago when I was just angry and resentful that I didn't have this job. I would give anything to be angry and resentful compared to how I feel right now. You know, I walk past the tour guide every morning, and they say that the office was built as a temple to cinema, but feels much more like a tomb.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Heavy as the head. Maddie.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah. Honored, obviously, to be one of the people that gets to choose, you know, which movies get made and which ones don't. That's huge. And I got into all this cause, you know, I love movies, but now I have this fear that my job is to ruin them.

[Catherine O'Hara]

The job is a meat grinder. It makes you stressed and panicked and miserable. One week you're looking your idol in the eye and breaking his heart, and the next week you're writing a blank check for some entitled Nepo baby in a beanie. But when it all comes together and you make a good movie, it's good forever.

[Tanya Moseley]

That was Catherine O'Hara playing the role of Patti in the studio, and also my guest today, Seth Rogen. And that's the basis for this whole series. But, you know, I wanted to. This particular scene was really powerful. Cause we understand, like, his motivations. And then she, as a wisdom, you know, person with wisdom, gives kind of the larger context there. But it's also so beautiful. It's so interesting. Like, you guys are standing on an overlook overlooking la and the show and the character's wardrobe is all very much old Hollywood. It's just interesting, the juxtaposition between the vision and then the current day struggles that they're dealing with.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah, exactly. Like the characters, especially mine, longs for days of yore and that was sort of a big part of the idea, was to, like, also anchor the show in, like, a real feeling history for this studio and sort of like a real culture that this studio and, like, an identity that this studio has kind of. And so, yeah, we really used color palettes that were very 70s inspired. And the idea was that that's sort of the cult at the studio. And it also just subconsciously makes it. You can tell that the characters kind of long for, like, there's a nostalgia for a time that isn't there anymore. They're not trying to be on the cutting edge of things. They're actually trying to kind of go back to how things used to be, you know? And, yeah, we shot in a lot of old homes from the 50s and 60s and 70s. That house is a John Lautner house. It's a very beautiful, beautiful house. And in the show, it's as though we kind of have a storyline as though Frank Lloyd Wright designed the studio that we are in because he was in California making Mayan revival buildings at the time that these studios were made. And that it sort of has this grandeur to it and this kind of thing that you're trying to live up to. And I remember it's a name drop, but I was at 30 Rock once with Lorne Michaels, and I was saying what an amazing building it was. And he was like, in his way, like, well, you know, when any industry is new, they build cathedrals for it. And I always remembered that, and it was so true. And, like, the studios feel that way. A lot of them, like, they're these beautiful places, and they were built at a time when they were kind of, like, unabashedly, like, lauding and trying to, like, bolster the importance of these. The industry, you know. And so that, to us, was something very important. And we got really lucky with that shot because we shot the show where basically every scene is one take, which was very hard to do. But what it allowed us to do is a scene like that, for example, it's all one shot. And we shot it maybe 15 times. And the first, like, 10 times it was, like, rainy and gray and cloudy. And we kept having to go inside because it was raining on us and it just looked miserable. But we had a very specific shot we wanted to do. And so we literally just sat inside and waited for it to stop raining as the sun was going down. And then it's like this magical thing happened. We're like, right as the sun was going down, the rain stopped and rainbows appeared.

[Tanya Moseley]

Is that a rainbow, you could see the whole city.

[Seth Rogen]

And we were just like, let's go shoot now. And it just all happened in one take. And that was the take we ended up using, which was great. And to me, it was like a real magical Hollywood moment kind of.

[Tanya Moseley]

It feels like a love letter to Los Angeles, which feels especially just watching it, for me, a tinge of sadness a bit just. And with all that has happened, for sure, definitely.

[Seth Rogen]

And I think that it always was a love letter to Los Angeles. And I think if anything, it is like I love living in Los Angeles and I've lived here for a very long time. And I love the architecture, I love the landscape. I love that there's Franklin Wright buildings and John Lautner houses. And I think that's one of the things that Hollywood kind of has afforded me over the years is just like access to these very beautiful spaces. And as we were pitching the show, that was always something that we would say is like a lot of our experience in Hollywood is like being in very beautiful places having very stupid arguments with one another. And that was something that we really was a funny juxtaposition as well. We would be at a movie premiere at the Ace Theater. That was the United Artist Theater that Charlie Chaplin opened in some back room that was literally the dressing room that Charlie Chaplin would use before coming out the theater and just like screaming at each other over the cut of the movie and the dumbest, a fart joke or something like that. And to that was always just very funny.

[Tanya Moseley]

Our guest today is Seth Rogen. We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Tanya Moseley and this is FRESH AIR. Hi. This is Molly C.V. nesburg, digital producer at FRESH AIR.

[Catherine O'Hara]

And this is Terry Gross, host of the show.

[Tanya Moseley]

One of the things I do is.

[Catherine O'Hara]

Write the weekly newsletter, and I'm a newsletter fan. I read it every Saturday after breakfast. The newsletter includes all the week shows, staff recommendations and Molly picks timely highlights from the archive. It's a fun read.

[Tanya Moseley]

It's also the only place where we tell you what's coming up next week.

[Catherine O'Hara]

An exclusive, so [e-mail] fresh air. And look for an email from Molly every Saturday morning.

[Tanya Moseley]

Gosh. Some of the scenarios in this series, like the self importance.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah, that's real.

[Tanya Moseley]

So there's this particular episode and there's a scene in the episode where your character is dating a doctor.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah.

[Tanya Moseley]

And she takes him to, I think it's like a cancer.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah. Like a medical cancer gala.

[Tanya Moseley]

Yeah. And he, while talking to Fellow doctors and researchers who are like, looking for cures for cancer and stuff. He gets into an argument and he says to a group of them, you all something like, you all save lives.

[Seth Rogen]

We make life worth living.

[Tanya Moseley]

You all save lives, but we make life worth living. That is like the most absurd, non self aware statement ever. But, Seth, it also is kind of true.

[Seth Rogen]

I mean, that episode's probably threading a needle more than any of them. As far as rooting for my character or at least even understanding where my character's coming from in any way, shape or form. That, to me is actually, I think in many ways, I personally find it to be the funniest episode because it's sort of based on. It's kind of based on me because. And I understand, obviously I understand it's comedic and ridiculous, but I have a charity with my wife, Hilarity for Charity. And it's an Alzheimer's charity. And so we find ourselves at a lot of medical galas and I find myself at a lot of tables with doctors who save lives. And what's funny is often they have like a blatant disrespect for the film industry as Maybe as they should, but I don't think so necessarily.

[Tanya Moseley]

So there's no deference for you?

[Seth Rogen]

No. And they think it's funny, and I think they think it's funny. And they're obviously smart enough to know that I exist in a world where there is deference and they're showing no deference. And they seem to revel in being in a position where they can sort of, maybe subtly at times, diminish the career of another person who clearly views what they do as important, even though. So maybe it isn't.

[Tanya Moseley]

How does that feel for you to do that?

[Seth Rogen]

Well, it was. I mean, I personally understand that it's not a thing I should be upset about, but I comedically understand the feeling that you wish you could fight back against that and assert that what you do is as important. And it's not something I would ever do in real life, but it's something that. It's obviously an instinct I had somewhere in my brain because that's where the idea for the episode came from. But I know it's ridiculous and I know my character wrong generally, but I think that the inspiration for that episode was definitely based on feelings that I've had sitting at tables with doctors.

[Tanya Moseley]

There's also this storyline about being scared, about whether something is racist. And that's hilarious because it just goes through all these different iterations. Is that A situation that you've had to deal with in real life, for sure.

[Seth Rogen]

I'd say that episode has more actual conversations that we've had to sit in rooms and watch than most of the episodes. And what's funny about it is it's like all people care about is the perception. They themselves have no ideological, like, thing that they are trying to get across, and they don't care at all. They just don't want to look bad. And that is the thing that we would notice the most when these types of things came up was that, like, oh, no, none of these people care. They just don't want to look bad.

[Tanya Moseley]

Is there a story that comes to mind that happened in real life?

[Seth Rogen]

It's not a thing we got made, but it was like we were making a comic book and there was, like, an alien character. The alien had been, like, traditionally voiced by someone of a certain race. And so all of a sudden, that became a big topic of conversation, was like, what race is this alien? And we kept thinking, well, it's an alien. But it didn't matter because in people's heads, there was a certain race ascribed to the alien due to the. That people associated with the alien. And then we were like, well, is that racist? And so that was something in the last few years where, again, I found just a lot of people having. At the end of the day, no one involved cared. No one could be like, you know what? I strongly believe that it should be this. Everyone's just like, what? Maybe? Will people yell at us? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tanya Moseley]

There's also the funny where to make sure. So in the case, like, the alien, like, in the voice, you go to, like, the one person of color in the place.

[Seth Rogen]

Oh, yes.

[Tanya Moseley]

Is this okay?

[Seth Rogen]

Yes. That happens a lot. I've been there as well. I've had people call me and ask me Jewish things before. Like, it's happened to me. I've been that person. Or, like, in a writer's room. Like, I worked on the show and declared a long time ago. And there was two female writers who were a teenager, Jenny Connor and Ali Rushfield, who I'm still both good friends with and are both still very successful writers. But as the only women writers, that was like, always. They would always hate it. It would be like, don't do this. This is so annoying. They'd be like, well, as a woman, what do you think of the woman story? And they'd be like, I don't know. Like, I'm just a writer on the show. I have to be like, the spokesperson for all women. Every time there's a question about this stuff. And that idea is for sure something that we, like, wove into the episode as well.

[Tanya Moseley]

Let's take a short break. If you're just joining us, I am talking with Seth Rogen about his new Apple TV series, the Studio. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is FRESH air. Okay, so cameos. You got a lot of cameos. Zoe Kravitz, Martin Scorsese, to name a few. I've read the stories about getting them, especially Scorsese, but was it easy to get them to say yes?

[Seth Rogen]

Different people, different degrees of difficulty? I would say Scorsese, yeah, Like insanely. Like, we sent his manager the script and we heard, this is funny, I'll send it to him. And then we heard he loves it, he'll do it. If you can shoot it this day, he'll be there. And we were like, okay. And that was it. Like, he didn't want to have a conversation about it. I didn't talk to him before he showed up on the set.

[Tanya Moseley]

Did he have things to say about it? Did he give? No, no.

[Seth Rogen]

He really seemed to like it and think it was funny. Like, he totally just did it and he nailed it. Like, he's so funny in the scenes and he just instantly was able to tell exactly what it was that we were trying to do and seamlessly just like locked into it right away, basically, which was very impressive to watch. And he's a great actor.

[Tanya Moseley]

Impressive to watch. But it had to feel good for you as someone who's the creative, the person to have him not give you. No.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah. I think he understood. I don't know. I think we would have had to really be blowing it for him to, to step in, I guess. But mostly it was just like it was a very validating experience who was willing to do it. And honestly, one of the reasons I think I was so nervous leading up to the show premiering and seeing how it was going to be received is that I talked to all these people, people I idolize, people I'm huge fans of, people I've always wanted to work with into doing this thing. And I don't want to let them down. I don't want them to be mad at me. I don't want to feel like they wasted their time or I made them look stupid or they were a part of a thing that they're proud of, you know, and so it's, I mean, again, it's meta in many, many ways, but that is a real thing that I relate to my character on is that, like, I get to work with these people that I've idolized my whole life or people that I've recently become huge fans of and I see are, like, the next wave of talent. And if I get the chance to work with them, I don't want them to hate me.

[Tanya Moseley]

You know, it's just so interesting, Right. It's meta in that this character just walks around with so much fear and, like, hope that he is light. This is something that's like, you too, but yet for you and for this character, like, there's something that pushes you to, like, have to face that every single day.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah. And it's really. It's honestly not something I've done for a while. Like, I haven't been front and center in a thing in a while, and I still just, like, I've been in things. So, like. And just like, as a recognizable person living the OR life, you fall under scrutiny. But I honestly don't think I've had the stomach to put myself this front and center in something in a long time because it's just scary. And I know that I wear it. If no one likes the things I do, then it really makes me unhappy. And so I know I'm setting myself up for a real emotional crossroads, potentially, where I'll. And I know it's not. And that's one of the things in the show is like, I wish I wasn't so emotionally affected by it. But I think as, again, someone who just puts a lot into their work and does enjoy making it. So, like, it's not like I've regretted making something, but there are times where I've made things where I'm like, oh, I really wish people liked that more.

[Tanya Moseley]

You know, I want to play this clip, another clip, because this one kind of speaks to what you're saying. So your old boss, Patty, played by Catherine O'Hara. I just keep picking those clips. I like you two together.

[Seth Rogen]

She's great. Yeah. How do you not go with O'Hara?

[Tanya Moseley]

Yeah. So you guys are talking about giving notes to this ridiculously long, weird movie that Ron Howard, who plays himself in his series, directed. And so in this, you guys are kind of talking about having to give him notes. Let's listen.

[Seth Rogen]

I just don't get it. If it's so personal to him, why did he make it so boring? It's literally insane.

[Catherine O'Hara]

He's insane. He's an artist. Lenny. You know this. They put themselves into things. They. They project meaning onto Their work, even if it's imperceivable to anyone else other than them. Sly Stallone thought the Demolition man was an allegory about masculinity and modernism in a battle.

[Terry Gross]

Was it?

[Catherine O'Hara]

Oh, no, no, no. It was a 115 minute commercial for taco Bell. But did his delusion get him up every morning and into that ridiculous futuristic stick a copy uniform? My script is called Chickmate. It's in your inbox.

[Tanya Moseley]

That was Catherine O'Hara and my guest today, Seth Rogen in the new Apple TV series, the Studio. And of course, this is also kind of the crux of the show, this relationship between the executive and the creative and the note giving process. You talked about, like, you haven't been front and center in this in a really long time to have to kind of face like as a creative. Yeah, but you've dealt with that your whole life. And how do you deal with that when you have a career that's really based on your childhood dreams? You know, just for those who don't know, I just want to, like, lay this out. So you and Evan, your creative partner and business partner, you guys met when you were 13 years old in bar mitzvah class and soon after you all began writing these screenplays together. And like, so much of the art that we see that comes from like the films and things, it comes from your childhood imagination or the imagination that you all have, like, created together over the decades.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah.

[Tanya Moseley]

So it's like very personal.

[Seth Rogen]

Very personal, yes. Yeah.

[Tanya Moseley]

I mean, how have you dealt with that in the years, you know, what.

[Seth Rogen]

Receiving notes and stuff like that or criticism?

[Tanya Moseley]

Yeah, notes and criticism. And then having that extra something to have you to keep going.

[Seth Rogen]

I mean, I start from recognizing that I'm just very lucky and like, and from the time I've been like 22 or 23, I've consistently been able to work basically and pretty much work on the things that I want to work on. So as much as I would like to pity myself at times and really lick my wounds, like, one of the things that is helpful is that I have just kept working. So I often, like, if I've made something that is poorly received, I've already made another thing. I'm like, well, maybe that thing will be better received. And they can't take that away. It's already happened. And so I think the fact that I have kind of kept my foot on the gas this whole time, be it something I'm writing or producing or have a smaller role in, I've just always kept going. And so I view myself as very lucky. And so it's hard to, again, get too brought down by that stuff. And I think part of it's based on if I think it could have been better. I think if I agree with the criticism, it's much more painful and it's much harder. And if I see that I miss something or I made some glaring mistake in. There's a discrepancy between what I hope to put out there and what I did put out there. And I think that, to me, is something that I have a harder time I'm dealing with as opposed to. I put out there exactly what I wanted to put out there. And people. And just like a. Very. Usually maybe just like a smaller group of people really liked it than I was hoping, but usually a small group. At least a small group of people will like it. But at times I've made things where. And not a lot of things, thank God, but where I'm just like, they didn't like it. And now that I look at it, I don't know if I like it either. And I don't know if I could have pushed it harder and I could have maybe been more critical of it or worked harder to bring it to a better level. You know what I mean?

[Tanya Moseley]

Well, because so much of your material comes from a personal place, have you ever gotten a note from an executive that felt like an insult?

[Seth Rogen]

Oh, yeah, Many, many, many times. We've got notes that just, like, this scene isn't funny, which is insulting. You know, I think I actually understand notes about, like, likability. Cause, like, I think that's like, an easy note for an executive to give. Is like, often there'll be a character based on me, and they'll be like, this character's not likable.

[Tanya Moseley]

Well, wasn't there that note from that executive or something about Jonah Hill's character, Superbad?

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah, that was a thing. Yeah, that Sony. Well, it was Sony, like, corporate Sony. Sony made the movie. You know, Sony owns Columbia Pictures. And so Sony made Superbad. And there's a scene in Superbad where it was supposed to be Michael Cera and Jonah's character, Seth and Evan, based on us playing PlayStation together. And then we got a note from Sony Corporate. Yeah. That Jodah's character couldn't interact with a Sony product. Basically. It was even worse on Pineapple Express where they wouldn't even let us put a PlayStation in the movie altogether. And we had a scene where a kid was playing a video game, and we had to, invent a console that didn't exist.

[Tanya Moseley]

Oh my God.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah. Sony on that one was like, we don't even want to be in this movie.

[Tanya Moseley]

But the thing about the super bad one, I mean, Jonah's character is based on you.

[Seth Rogen]

It is based on me. And they were like, yes, this character is too reprehensible to be touching a PlayStation. And I was like, that hurts.

[Tanya Moseley]

You've always been a good looking guy to me, Seth.

[Seth Rogen]

Thank you.

[Tanya Moseley]

A few years ago though, there was like this market change. You became very, very stylish in like a very intentional way. And I just want to know if it's an evolution of just who you are or was it, is there a story behind it?

[Seth Rogen]

I mean, truthfully, like, I think I just realized at one point that like, because you're a comedian, every time you do a photo shoot they try to make you look like a buffoon. And I feel like there was a moment where I was like, what if instead of like me looking sorta good but also kinda dumb, I just actually like put on nice clothes and you took my picture like you do every other person who is in these magazines, you know, and you don't try to subvert it in some way and you don't try to make me look good, but then also like throw a pie in my face or something like that. Like what if I had? I actually just got the photo shoot treatment as you put me on the COVID of your magazine. And that was really it. And I remember it's funny cause afterwards I remember another comedian coming up to me, who's very famous, being like, what did you do? And I was like, I just told them I didn't want to look stupid. And he was like, whoa, I'm going to do that. I'm going to stop looking stupid. And they did and they started to look incredibly fashionable.

[Tanya Moseley]

Yes. I mean, do people treat you differently or relate to you differently?

[Seth Rogen]

Not really. I didn't get offered like a Louis Vuitton campaign all of a sudden or anything like that. I probably get lent nicer clothes for movie premieres and stuff like that. But not really. No, it's better. The alternative. I feel like I used to be called schlubby all the time and now that doesn't happen as much. So it is like, I think it just is nice to feel as though I'm representing myself better. And I'm someone who in real life my wife always talks about. When we first started dating, I owned Diesel jeans. I'm someone who in my own way have always tried to take pride in their appearance and tried to wear things that reflect my taste. I couldn't always afford to do it. So that was also something that was nice. But no, if anything, again, I'm just happy I don't have to look stupid all the time.

[Tanya Moseley]

Seth Rogen, this has been such a pleasure to talk with you and thank you for the studio.

[Seth Rogen]

Thank you.

[Tanya Moseley]

Seth Rogen co created and stars in the new series the Studio. It premieres on apple TV on March 26th. This is FRESH AIR. The new crime series Long Bright river stars Amanda Seyfried as a police officer whose search for a killer plunges her back into her family's past in a troubled Philadelphia neighborhood. It's based on the bestselling novel by Liz Moore. Our critic at large John Powers says that the show is after something much more than solving a crime.

[Terry Gross]

Every crime story takes place somewhere, but those somewheres can be very different in kind. There are the artificial somewheres of Agatha Christie's country houses and the mean streets of noir. There are the touristic somewheres of murder mysteries that serve up Paris or Tuscany as envy inducing backdrops. And then there are the somewheres that are so gritty and confining they become a major character in the story the Baltimore of the Wire, say, or Dennis Lehane's Boston. The new Peacock streaming series Long Bright river belongs to this last group. Based on the acclaimed novel by Liz Moore, who co wrote the series with Nikki Toscano, this eight part story is set in Kensington, a struggling, opioid, ravaged, blue collar Philadelphia neighborhood that leaves its mark on everyone who lives in there. Propelled by its heroine's search for a killer, Long Bright river isn't just a mystery, but a heartfelt story about wounded communities, wounded families and the wounded individuals who try to make things better. Amanda Seyfried stars as Mickey Fitzpatrick, a Kensington born cop who patrols her old hood while trying to raise her brainy seven year old son Thomas as a single mom. Although Mickey doesn't love her job, she once dreamed of being a classical musician. She jumps into action when somebody starts murdering young drug addicted women who are working the avenue, as they call it. Not only did she grow up alongside some of these sex workers, her own estranged sister Casey, played by Ashley Cummings, is one of their cohort and Mickey can't find her as she starts investigating the case, not always wisely, Mickey soon discovers that to get anywhere, she's going to need to face up to her past. She starts by seeking help from her former police partner, Truman. That's British Actor Nicholas Pinnock, a real mensch whose friendship she has betrayed. But that's not all. Mickey has her own dark secrets. And the quest for the magenta haired Casey forces her to expose them. In a series of flashbacks we learn the painful family history that led the sisters to be raised by their grandfather. A gruff but essentially decent man played by that great hard ass actor John Domet. And we see what drove them apart. Here Truman asks Mickey about Casey's disappearance and gets a hint of potential danger.

[Seth Rogen]

How long she been gone this time?

[F]

Like six weeks. Feels like just yesterday she was standing in the separate line in St. Francis Inn.

[Seth Rogen]

And these victims, any connection to Casey.

[F]

Other than the fact that they all work the avenue?

[Seth Rogen]

Casey been missing six weeks and most of these girls bodies showed up days after they disappeared, right?

[Catherine O'Hara]

So?

[Seth Rogen]

So maybe it's unrelated. Casey's gone missing before, I know, but.

[F]

In Alonzo's video, Casey was picked up by a john in a red pickup truck. I saw a red pickup truck outside of my. And I think I saw a red pickup truck in Kensington too.

[Seth Rogen]

You think he's been following you?

[F]

I don't know. My landlord said that a guy got out of the truck, was asking about me and she tried to describe him. I have no idea who it is.

[Terry Gross]

If you watch a lot of police shows, you'll know that Long Bright river belongs to the operatic subgenre that includes Mayor of Easttown and perhaps the mother of such shows, the British series Happy Valley. All of which focus on women cops whose family crises are woven deeply and inextricably into the mysteries they're solving. Reacher, they're not. If Long Bright river is less enjoyable than those earlier series, that's because it's less good at infusing its grown up themes with a sense of pop melodrama. It can feel a tad depressive. While Seyfried is an actress I've long admired, she doesn't automatically strike one as a cop. And in fact her best scenes are the intimate ones with Casey, Truman and her grandfather. She's great at conveying Mickey's struggle to do the right thing in a neighborhood that has learned to treat the police as an enemy that harasses them but doesn't protect them. Painfully self contained, she lives a life of anxious responsibility, forever trying to safeguard her sister and her son. You can understand her fears. They live in an area of Philly whose decline embodies a profound social collapse. Incomes low, jobs vanished, schools lousy, opioids replacing hope. Kensington is a place of ragtag shops, worn out housing, terrifying street life and unhappy faces. Hopelessness passes itself from generation to generation, with some, like Casey, being sucked into the whirlpool of addiction and despair, while others, like Mickey, struggle to keep those they love from joining what a priest calls a long, bright river of departed souls. Of course, long Bright river is a mystery, not a sociology lesson, and I'm happy to assure you that by the end, we discover the killer's identity and see justice done. Or a certain kind of justice, anyway.

[Tanya Moseley]

John Powers reviewed the new series Long Bright River. It's now streaming on Peacock. Tomorrow on FRESH the promise and peril of artificial Intelligence. Investigative reporter Gary Rivlin's new book tells the inside story of how AI Was developed and how big tech firms are racing to build powerful systems with enormous potential for harm and profit. His book is AI Valley. I hope you can join us to keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews. Follow us on Instagram at NPRFreshAir. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our managing producer is Sam Brigger. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Anne Marie Baldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Masereth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Yakundi and Anna Bauman. Our digital media producer is Molly CD Nesper. Roberta Shorrock directs the show with Terry Gross. I'm Tanya Mosley.