Fresh Air: Spike Lee On Dynamic Duos & Reimagining Kurosawa

Date: August 19, 2025
Host: Tonya Mosley
Guest: Spike Lee

Overview

On this episode of Fresh Air, host Tonya Mosley talks with acclaimed filmmaker Spike Lee about his new film "Highest to Lowest"—a dynamic reimagining of Akira Kurosawa's 1963 classic, High and Low. The conversation covers Lee’s process in transforming a Japanese crime drama into a contemporary hip-hop saga, the power of director-actor partnerships, Lee’s reflections on art, legacy, and New York, and his experiences and philosophy as a storyteller. They also discuss pivotal moments from Lee's career and his documentary work, offering personal insights into his artistic journey and cultural impact.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Reimagining Kurosawa’s High and Low

• Not a Remake, But a Reinterpretation

  • Lee rejects the term “remake,” preferring “reinterpretation” for his new film (03:39).
  • He ties both Kurosawa’s and his version to fundamental questions of morality:

    “The strength of the book and Kurosawa's film, it really deals with morality.” (03:39, Spike Lee)

• Setting Shift: Music Over Manufacturing

  • The protagonist transforms from a Japanese shoe executive to a New York music mogul (Denzel Washington), a change made before Lee even received the script (06:36–07:10).
  • Music is woven tightly into Lee’s films, making this an intuitive fit:

    “It's part of the filmmaking.” (07:21, Spike Lee)

• Opening With Rodgers and Hammerstein, Then Hip-Hop

  • The soundtrack starts unexpectedly with “Oh, What a Beautiful Morning” from Oklahoma! in stark contrast to the soul and hip-hop that follows.
  • Lee credits his cinephile mother for an eclectic appreciation of film and music (07:38–08:55).

The Dynamic Duo: Lee & Washington

• On Director–Actor Partnerships:
  • Lee likens his creative partnership with Denzel Washington to classic collaborations like Scorsese/De Niro (05:10).

  • “I've been blessed with five of those dynamic duos.” (05:10, Spike Lee)

• Evolving Characterization:
  • Denzel’s character is not at the top anymore, signaling vulnerability and a timely exploration of declining celebrity and relevance (06:04).

  • “When you're at the top and that point comes, you're not the top anymore. That's earth-shaking.” (06:04, Spike Lee)

The Puerto Rican Day Parade Set Piece

• Signature New York Moments:
  • The film features a complex ransom drop set during the Puerto Rican Day Parade and a Yankees–Red Sox game, echoing the Tokyo bullet train scene in Kurosawa’s original (13:37).
  • Lee collaborated with pianist Eddie Palmieri’s orchestra, capturing the vibrancy of the city and honoring Palmieri, who passed shortly before the premiere (16:10–16:48).

  • “When you see the film, you can see the joy in Eddie's face... it was very emotional.” (16:13, Spike Lee)

Representing Black Affluence and Art

• Art Direction Inspired by Lee’s Own Collection:

  • Denzel’s penthouse features works by Basquiat and Richard Avedon—many are copies of Lee’s real collection (17:19–18:16).

  • “It's a shortcut to show that this is a fluent black family.” (17:56, Spike Lee)

• Family and Art:

  • Lee’s own children now work in the arts; his daughter is an art commentator and photographer, his son works in merchandise and dealmaking (19:01).

  • “Art is the bedrock... they grew up with it.” (20:05, Tonya Mosley and Spike Lee)

Casting A$AP Rocky and On-Screen Legacy

• First Acting Role Not as 'Just a Rapper':
  • Lee urges Rocky to avoid being typecast, noting his leading man potential (20:24–21:34).

  • “Please don't play another rapper right after this.” (20:24, Spike Lee)

  • Notable resemblance to Denzel Washington is picked up by fans.

Staying Passionate Amid Career Highs and Lows

• On Artistic Drive:
  • Lee maintains a lifelong passion for cinema, sharing the advice he gives his NYU students:

    “If you could make a living doing what you love, you won.” (13:15, Spike Lee)

  • He acknowledges the challenges and “BS” but advocates focusing on the love for storytelling (13:07).

Spike Lee’s Documentaries: Impact and Memory

• Four Little Girls (1997):
  • Lee describes how the film led the FBI to reopen the 1963 Birmingham church bombing case after viewing the documentary (28:55).

    “A couple days before that I got a call by FBI... a week later they reopened the case, and sent those murderers to prison.” (29:03, Spike Lee)

• Katrina, Come Hell or High Water:
  • Lee reflects on the 20-year legacy of Katrina, resisting the word “anniversary,” and the sustained displacement of New Orleans’ Black population (31:22).

    “Americans have short memories. So that's why I came apart of this other revisiting of it.” (31:22, Spike Lee)

Social Commentary in Film

• Response to "Do the Right Thing" Backlash:
  • Lee recounts being labeled “angry,” “belligerent,” and “racist” by the press at the time of Do the Right Thing and Jungle Fever (23:32).

  • “I mean, when Do the Right Thing came out... I was portrayed as a racist... American journalists were saying that this film was going to cause riots.” (23:32–24:29, Spike Lee)

  • The prescient themes of police brutality and racial tension in his films have become even more relevant in recent decades (25:01–25:39).

Music, Family, and Personal Stories

• Childhood Exposure to Film and Jazz:
  • Lee credits his mother’s cinephilia and his father’s jazz purism—refusing to play electric bass even at personal cost—for shaping his worldview (08:55–10:13, 32:34–34:45).
• Personal Anecdotes:
  • Lee shares a humorous story from childhood, attending a Bond film with his mother and innocently asking about the character “Pussy Galore” (08:59–10:16).

The Legacy of Malcolm X

• The “I Am Malcolm X” Scene:
  • Mosley recalls watching Malcolm X as a student and the emotional reaction it evoked in Detroit, as audiences stood in solidarity during the “I am Malcolm X” sequence (36:06–37:35).
  • Lee reveals the scene was inspired by Spartacus and his desire to connect African and African American communities—and that John David Washington (Denzel’s son) appears as a child in the scene (39:05).

  • “That classroom scene, it's a homage to Spartacus...” (39:18, Spike Lee)

  • On working with Nelson Mandela for the film’s ending and his refusal to say “by any means necessary”—due to political reasons as he was running for South African president (38:09–38:43).

Reflections on Recognition and Awards

• Oscar Frustrations:
  • Lee candidly discusses his disappointment at losing Academy Awards for Do the Right Thing (to Driving Miss Daisy) and BlackKklansman (to Green Book), recalling a night of frustration and family intervention (41:40–42:27).

  • “I said, man, every time somebody’s driving somebody, I’m gonna lose—Driving Miss Daisy and Green Book.” (41:54, Spike Lee)

Inspiration and Global Cinema

• Cinematic Influences:
  • Lee’s time at NYU deepened his appreciation for Kurosawa and world cinema, which influenced his own narrative devices, such as the multiple perspectives in She’s Gotta Have It inspired by Rashomon (44:07).

  • “It was only when I got into NYU graduate film school... that I really got introduced to world cinema.” (44:43, Spike Lee)

• Meeting Kurosawa:
  • Lee recalls meeting Kurosawa in person—a highlight of his career—and owning a signed portrait painted by Kurosawa himself (45:13–45:59).

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On What Keeps Him Going:

  “I truly believe I was put here to be a storyteller.” (12:20, Spike Lee)

• On the Power of Representation in Film:

  “I wanted to show the bond between African Americans and our brothers, brothers and sisters who were still...” (39:46, Spike Lee)

• Advice to Students:

  “If you could make a living doing what you love, you won.” (13:15, Spike Lee)

• On Highest to Lowest’s Theme:

  “What would you do to save your own child? What would you do to save the child of someone you love?” (03:06, Tonya Mosley)

• On the Continuing Relevance of Do the Right Thing

  “That film really had the crystal ball... when you look at the killing, the murder of Ray Rahim by the NYPD and the chokehold, where did that happen?” (24:32, Spike Lee)

• On Losing the Oscar—Humor and Frustration:

  “Every time somebody’s driving somebody, I’m gonna lose—Driving Miss Daisy and Green Book.” (41:54, Spike Lee)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro and High-Level Setup: 00:16–03:06
• Reimagining Kurosawa, Morality, and Denzel: 03:06–06:29
• On Music and Influence: 07:21–08:55
• Personal Anecdotes (Movies with Mom): 08:55–10:13
• Puerto Rican Day Parade Sequence: 13:37–14:38
• Art, Wealth, Family, TikTok Daughter: 17:19–20:01
• On A$AP Rocky and Casting: 20:21–21:34
• Do the Right Thing Backlash: 23:32–25:39
• Documentary Work: Four Little Girls and Katrina: 26:31–31:59
• Relating to Parental Purism and Crooklyn: 32:34–34:45
• Malcolm X, Mandela, and the "I Am Malcolm X" Scene: 35:03–39:46
• Awards, Oscars, and Recognition: 41:30–42:27
• Kurosawa, World Cinema, Meeting Kurosawa: 44:07–45:59

Conclusion

Spike Lee’s conversation with Tonya Mosley on Fresh Air offers a profound look into the mind and motivations of one of America’s great filmmakers. From his reinterpretation of Kurosawa to his lifelong partnership with Denzel Washington, his embrace of New York energy, cultural memory, art, and music, Lee’s work is ever-present, ever-relevant, and always asking us to reconsider our moral compass in art and life.

Spike Lee’s new film, "Highest to Lowest," is now in theaters and will stream on Apple TV starting September 5th.

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