Fresh Air: Star of ‘Pluribus’ Rhea Seehorn
Original Air Date: December 9, 2025
Host: Terry Gross
Guest: Rhea Seehorn
Episode Overview
This episode of Fresh Air features an in-depth conversation between host Terry Gross and actor Rhea Seehorn, star of the acclaimed Apple TV series Pluribus. The discussion delves into the show’s provocative sci-fi premise and the profound philosophical questions it raises about happiness, individuality, conformity, and the role of emotions—especially anger. Seehorn shares insights into her character Carol, her own life experiences, her career trajectory, and personal reflections on family, identity, and acting. The latter part of the episode revisits Seehorn’s past work on Better Call Saul and recounts the dramatic on-set incident when co-star Bob Odenkirk suffered a heart attack. The tone throughout is candid, thoughtful, and frequently laced with Seehorn’s characteristic humility and humor.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
The Premise and Themes of Pluribus
- Sci-fi roots with philosophical questions: Pluribus, created by Vince Gilligan and starring Rhea Seehorn, explores what happens when an extraterrestrial technology transforms humanity—connecting everyone through a psychic network that allegedly eliminates unhappiness and conflict, but at the cost of individual thought.
- Carol’s journey: Seehorn plays Carol, a best-selling romance novelist who resists this collective consciousness after her partner dies in the incident that triggers the transformation.
- Happiness vs. Meaning and Individuality ([03:09])
- Terry Gross: “Is it happiness if there’s no longer a larger meaning to your life? And is being an individual with your own temperament and thoughts... more valuable than this happiness?”
- Carol’s skepticism drives the show’s core conflict.
Happiness, Groupthink, and the Value of Surprise
- Seehorn’s thoughts: ([04:03])
- She describes cast and crew conversations about individuality vs. the collective good.
- Quote (Rhea Seehorn): “A big thing that came up for me was the fact that this group think... If you cannot be surprised, there’s never going to be any new art... That’s just such a source of joy for me that I just can’t imagine that contentment is the same as happiness.” ([05:07])
- The series provokes viewers to rethink what constitutes authentic happiness and the creative power of surprise or disruption.
Anger—Destructive, Necessary, or Both?
- Character contrast: ([06:20])
- Carol is “angry all the time,” a stark contrast to Seehorn’s iconic Kim Wexler, who carefully suppresses anger.
- On the necessity of anger: ([07:26])
- Seehorn: “It is a necessary emotion, which I think is one of the arguments in the show that I side with... all of the emotions are important, not just happiness.”
- Gender, anger, and socialization: ([08:14])
- Seehorn: “I have grown up in a world that... I was taught that anger was unpalatable, specifically from females, and that I should find a way to make it palatable...”
- Recounts family arguments and pressure to “make requests palatable” instead of expressing direct anger.
- Discusses personal toll: “It got to a place... where I’m nodding and just saying yes... and I go home and break out in eczema.” ([09:46])
- Acting as catharsis?:
- Gross: “Does anger expressed as an actor become a great release valve...?”
- Seehorn: “It didn't feel... therapeutic... But... it was fun as an actor, to have this extreme obstacle... She does care about not killing millions of people. So how does she express herself now?” ([11:13])
- Both agree that finding non-destructive ways to communicate anger is a valuable lesson.
Pluribus, E Pluribus Unum, and Social Commentary
- Terry Gross links show to current events: ([12:55])
- Notes that in an era where DEI (diversity, equity, and inclusion) is under fire, the show’s psychic conformity is “the opposite of DEI.”
- Seehorn’s perspective: ([13:47])
- “Or you could argue that it’s the ultimate in all inclusion and everybody has equal everything.”
- They riff on artificial intelligence and loss of individuality.
- Memorable moment: ([14:21])
- Seehorn jokes about the new pope’s reported favorite motto being “E pluribus unum”: “I really appreciate him advertising the show.”
Stepping Into Romance Novel Land
- Carol’s background as a romance novelist: ([14:45])
- Seehorn prepped for her role by visiting “The Ripped Bodice,” a romance bookstore.
- Marvels at the diversity of subgenres and the varied fanbase: “There was a lot of people dressed like early Stevie Nicks in a beautiful way... But then there was... a couple that looked like they came straight from a corporate job...” ([16:37])
The Role Was Written for Her
- Transition from male protagonist to Seehorn: ([17:06])
- Vince Gilligan originally envisioned Carol as a man, reconnecting his creative process after seeing Seehorn work on Better Call Saul.
- Seehorn on Gilligan: “He realized, like, I have to write something for her... These concepts I’m noodling with, wouldn’t they work even better if they were her?... I’m floored by the compliment and the flattery, to put it mildly.” ([18:55])
- The creation of Carol became a custom fit to Seehorn’s strengths as an actor.
Better Call Saul, On-Set Crisis, and Bob Odenkirk’s Heart Attack
- Scene lead-up: ([23:26])
Excerpt from the episode featuring a tense exchange between characters (with Tony Dalton and Seehorn’s Kim), culminating shortly before Odenkirk’s collapse. - Vivid recounting of the incident: ([25:38])
- Seehorn describes the day: “We were shooting the scene for maybe about 10 hours... Bob was watching a Cubs game and chatting... he got off the bike and looked like he was gonna faint. So we ran to catch him... It looked like either seizure, a stroke or cardiac arrest...”
- Describes waiting for medics, use of the defibrillator, and the emotional toll: “We wouldn't let go of him either. They just kept having to tell us... you can't be holding on to him while he's being electrocuted.”
- On memory loss: ([28:16])
- Odenkirk has no recollection of the day or scene: “It is like I am watching an imposter in my body do a scene that I have never done in my entire life.”
Rhea Seehorn’s Early Life and Formative Years
- Changing her name: ([30:33])
- Born Deborah Ray Seehorn, went by “Debbie” but felt it didn’t fit. At age 12-13, switched to Ray (Rhea).
- Seehorn: “I had a sort of disconnect feeling with the name... Kids started yelling at me, ‘Hey, fat Debbie, do you want some more Little Debbie's?’... I think I just need a fresh start.”
- Family background: ([32:01])
- Father was a Naval Intelligence counterintelligence agent (now NCIS), worked on the infamous Walker spy family case in the 1980s.
- Her father’s job was mysterious and secretive, marked by frequent moves and sometimes secrecy at home.
- Favorite family phrase: ([34:42])
- “My dad’s favorite answer to everything was, ‘What are you, writing a book?’... And I thought I was so brilliant... and he said, ‘Well, then leave this chapter out.’”
- On her father’s alcoholism: ([35:00])
- Seen as “the life of the party,” but self-medication led to disease. Laments the lack of therapy or support for service members at the time.
From Painting to Acting
- Initial ambitions: ([36:34])
- Planned a career in the visual arts but was always captivated by TV and film.
- Discovered acting in a college class; found joy in the discipline and study required. Loved analyzing “the behavior of humans and the whys.”
- “If you work really hard and study, you can incrementally get closer and closer to being good at this and hopefully one day great at this. And that was the best news ever to me...” ([37:12])
- On why acting stuck: “[It’s] not about being famous. I knew that I had to be an actor and I’d support myself however I had to.” ([39:10])
Closing
- Warm send-off: ([39:10–39:20])
- Gross: “I really enjoyed this interview. I really like Pluribus.”
- Seehorn: “This is a dream come true being here.”
Notable Quotes by Timestamp
- “I just can’t imagine that contentment is the same as happiness.”
– Rhea Seehorn ([05:12]) - “It didn’t feel... therapeutic... But... it was fun as an actor, to have this extreme obstacle...”
– Rhea Seehorn on acting out anger ([11:13]) - “You could argue that it’s the ultimate in all inclusion and everybody has equal everything.”
– Rhea Seehorn on pluralism and conformity ([13:47]) - On Vince Gilligan:
“He realized, like, I have to write something for her... wouldn’t they work even better if they were her?” – Rhea Seehorn ([18:55]) - On her father's secrecy:
“My dad’s favorite answer to everything was, ‘What are you, writing a book?’ ... ‘Well, then leave this chapter out.’” – Rhea Seehorn ([34:42])
Timestamps for Major Segments
- Intro & Setup: [00:17–03:06]
- Themes of Pluribus, Individuality vs. Collective: [03:09–05:27]
- Anger & Gender, Personal Reflection: [06:20–10:08]
- Performance, Suppression vs. Expression: [10:36–12:55]
- Conformity, DEI, Social Satire: [12:55–14:21]
- Romance Novelist Research: [15:13–16:55]
- Carol Written for Seehorn: [17:06–19:50]
- Scene from Better Call Saul: [23:26–25:25]
- Bob Odenkirk’s Heart Attack: [25:38–28:54]
- Discussing Name/Identity: [30:33–31:46]
- Father’s Spy Work & Alcoholism: [32:01–36:30]
- Choosing Acting, Early Training: [36:43–39:10]
- Outro: [39:10–39:20]
Memorable Moments
- Rhea Seehorn’s humility in discussing why Vince Gilligan wrote Pluribus for her (“The title of this episode can be: Rhea Seehorn brags about herself... my face is one giant tomato red ball” [19:33]).
- The nerve-wracking, almost surreal retelling of Bob Odenkirk’s heart attack and the crew’s urgent response.
- Candid childhood anecdotes—name changes, family dynamics, moving for spy cases—rooting Seehorn’s work in her real-life complexity.
Takeaways
This interview is a wide-ranging, intimate, and deeply humanizing look at Rhea Seehorn’s creative process, life experiences, and her compelling new role in Pluribus. Listeners come away with a richer understanding of how thoughtful science fiction can reflect real-world anxieties, the ongoing challenge of expressing emotions authentically (especially as a woman), and how artistry draws from personal history and vulnerability.