Stellan Skarsgård doesn’t believe in bad guys

Summary

Fresh Air with Stellan Skarsgård: "Stellan Skarsgård Doesn’t Believe in Bad Guys"

Date: February 25, 2026
Host: Dave Davies (NPR)
Guest: Stellan Skarsgård

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Episode Overview

This episode features a rich, candid conversation with acclaimed Swedish actor Stellan Skarsgård. With a career spanning over 50 years and more than 100 films—including arthouse standouts like Breaking the Waves and Hollywood blockbusters like Dune and Mamma Mia!—Skarsgård reflects on fame, family, the complexity of playing “bad guys,” recovering from a stroke, and his latest wave of success with the Oscar-nominated film Sentimental Value. The discussion dives deeply into his methods, philosophy of acting, and his perspective on artistic freedom and aging.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

On Sentimental Value and Parallels to His Own Life

• Parallel with Family: Skarsgård plays Gustav Borg, a director whose daughter resents his frequent absence—themes mirroring Skarsgård’s real life as a father of eight, many of whom act.
  • “If I was at home eight months a year, I wasn't enough home for him. So I started to thinking about it… I have eight children, so I have eight different needs.”—Stellan Skarsgård [03:12]
• Personal Resonance: Initially, Skarsgård claimed, “Not at all. He's from a different generation. He's a different kind of father than I am.” [02:19] But his son Gustav urged him to consider deeper similarities with his character.

The “Bad Guy” Mythology

• Skarsgård challenges the notion of "bad guys" in real life.
  • “I don't believe in bad guys... Human beings, we have problems because they are nuanced, real humans.”—Stellan Skarsgård [04:11]
• Contrasts between roles: While his Dune character is monstrous, he insists human conflict on screen should reflect real moral complexity.

Acting “Between the Lines”

• On the nuanced technique in Sentimental Value (and filmmaker Joachim Trier):
  • “What you need to do, and what I like to do, is to show whatever happens between the lines, under the lines, before the lines, after the lines... it becomes a much richer tapestry of feelings.”—Stellan Skarsgård [05:16]
• Praise for Trier's filmmaking: Focus on the act of listening, not just delivering lines—spotlighting the “center of love” in the film, Inga. [06:20]

Stroke and Creative Adaptation

• Skarsgård’s 2022 stroke: He lost some memory and the ability to learn lines conventionally but resumed work with an innovative workaround:
  • “I cannot remember anything, any lines. And they said, don't worry, we'll fix it... an earpiece and a prompter.”—Stellan Skarsgård [08:05]
• He details the intricate method: Live prompting in his ear during scenes, synchronizing with co-actors—a complex feat, but seamless for viewers. [10:04]
• Outcome: “I don't think there's any trace of the stroke in my work.” [10:45]

Early Fame, Family, and Parenting

• Became famous at 16; credits thoughtful parents for keeping him grounded:
  • “They pointed out to me how different I was from my public persona... don't get that difference too big, because that's when it goes wrong.”—Stellan Skarsgård [13:25]
• On parenting his actor-children: Skarsgård prefers not to push or advise heavily, allowing his children autonomy. [37:43]

Working with Visionary Directors

• Lars von Trier (Breaking the Waves):
  • Embrace of mistakes on set as liberating and vital: “In making mistakes and not being afraid of making mistakes, you're expanding your possibilities and you're expanding the life in the character.” [18:29]
• Bo Weidenberg: Sought authenticity and “real life” acting; wanted seasoned actors to match amateurs’ unfiltered presence. [19:00]

Improvisation and Taking Risks

• Robin Williams in Good Will Hunting:
  • “He had like three brains going on at the same time... we had to do some extra takes because he had to get his versions out of his system... you had to follow him wherever he went.” [24:55]
• On his own fears around improvisation: Tackled them head-on in Mike Figgis’s Timecode and musical roles like Mamma Mia!, despite lack of singing/dancing talents.
  • "It's like with Mamma Mia... No, I can't sing, I can't dance." [27:16; 27:30]

The Physical Challenge of Dune’s Baron Harkonnen

• Grueling makeup: “It took eight hours of makeup... I added 40 kilos of foam to my weight. I'm playing this fat monster.” [33:46]
• On playing villainous archetypes: “He has one job in the film... to be the very epitome of evil... You don't care about his psychological motives... you need him to have a physical, frightening presence.” [33:51]
• Skarsgård advocated for the Baron’s vulnerability: More frightening "naked than in those armors." [35:00]

Chernobyl’s Soviet Complexity

• His character—a loyal Soviet official—awakening to the failings of the system:
  • “Everybody in the system were lying about everything in the nuclear reactor system because facts didn't count... when he discovers the unfathomable size of this catastrophe, he gradually comes to his senses and realizes that we've made this ourselves, and that's an interesting character to play.” [31:26–32:52]

On Aging and Longevity

• Despite cognitive aftereffects from his stroke, Skarsgård continues acting:
  • “Being an actor is not a very intellectual work... You have to produce real life, real irrationality, real emotions... it has nothing to do with laying an intellectual puzzle.” [36:46–37:36]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On being a parent:
  • “You can't get it right as a parent.” —Skarsgård [03:27]
• On acting between the lines:
  • “Show whatever happens between the lines... it becomes a much richer tapestry of feelings.” —Skarsgård [05:16]
• On recovery and work adaptation:
  • “There's a lot of actors using this technique, which is an earpiece and a prompter... I don't think there's any trace of the stroke in my work.” —Skarsgård [09:39, 10:45]
• On “bad guys”:
  • “I don't believe in bad guys.” —Skarsgård [04:11]
• On acting and improvisation:
  • “We had to follow [Robin Williams] wherever he went. And also he would follow you wherever you went. Everything became different from the previous take.” —Skarsgård [24:55]
  • “No, I can't sing, I can't dance... we were all terrified [in Mamma Mia!]." —Skarsgård [27:30, 28:08]
• On authenticity:
  • “You have to be as good as an amateur. You have to produce real life, real irrationality, real emotions... it has nothing to do with laying an intellectual puzzle.” —Skarsgård [36:56]
• On freedom for actor-children:
  • “I didn't encourage it and I didn't discourage it. I don't think parents should impose their dreams on the kids at all. They shouldn't interfere with their choices.” —Skarsgård [37:43]

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Timestamps for Notable Segments

• Early Discussion & Film Parallels:
  • [02:19–03:27] Parallels between Sentimental Value and Skarsgård’s life/family
• Nuanced Acting & Working with Joachim Trier:
  • [05:16–06:20] Acting between the lines, Trier’s directing
• Stroke and Earpiece Technique:
  • [06:46–10:45] Stroke experience, adapting to learning lines
• Breaking the Waves & Artistic Philosophy:
  • [16:44–18:56] Clip and reflections; “make mistakes” directive from von Trier
• Improvisation, Williams, and Mamma Mia!:
  • [24:55–28:08] Working with Robin Williams, fear and exhilaration with improvisation, singing/dancing in musical
• Playing Baron Harkonnen in Dune:
  • [33:46–35:32] Intense makeup process, crafting a unique villain
• Philosophy on Aging, Acting, and Parenting:
  • [36:11–39:39] Effects of aging/thoughts on the future, his philosophies on acting and children

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Takeaways

• Skarsgård’s humility, candor, and depth shine through; he resists typical “bad guy” narratives and embraces both the risks and freedoms of his craft.
• Despite personal health challenges, he continues to innovate, finding new ways to meet creative demands.
• His encouraging stance on artistic autonomy—both for himself and his children—reinforces the lasting value of flexibility, authenticity, and openness to mistakes in both art and life.

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For listeners and fans, this episode provides remarkable, unfiltered insight into both the technical and philosophical instincts that have shaped one of cinema’s most enduring character actors.

Transcript

[Stellan Skarsgård]

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[Dave Davies]

this is FRESH AIR. I'm Dave Davies. Our guest today, Swedish actor Stellan Skarsgrd has had a long and interesting career with which only seems to get more interesting with age. Now in his 70s, he's just earned a Golden Globe Award and an Oscar nomination for best supporting actor for his performance in the widely acclaimed film Sentimental Value from the Danish Norwegian director Joachim Trier. This surge in Skarsgrd's fortunes comes four years after he suffered a stroke which left him struggling to memorize his lines. He found a workaround which we'll talk about, and that enabled him to continue to play roles he'd begun in the science fiction movie movie series Dune and the Star wars spin off TV series andor as well as the film Sentimental Value. Skarsgrd began acting as a teenager and has appeared in more than a hundred movies, from independent European films like Breaking the Waves and Melancholia to commercial Hollywood fare such as the Hunt for Red October, Pirates of the Caribbean and Mamma Mia. He's also found time to raise eight children from two marriages. Five of those kids are also professional actors. The the best known in the United States are his sons, Alexander. And Bill. Skarsgrd will find out if he's an Oscar winner at the awards ceremony March 15. He spoke to me last week from a studio in London. Stellan Skarsgrd, welcome to FRESH air.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Thank you very much.

[Dave Davies]

In this film Sentimental Value, you play Gustav Borg. He's a famous director and it's about his family relationships. He's the target of a lot of anger from one of his daughters because she says he wasn't around. Being in the movie business can mean you're away a lot, and this daughter is also a successful actress herself. There's an obvious parallel here to your own life. I mean, you're in the movie business and a lot of your children are actors. I know you've been asked this a lot, but to what extent when you read this script, did you identify with this character?

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Not at all. He's from a different generation. He's a different kind of father than I am. Of course, the conflict between working as an artist and combining that with a personal life is difficult. And those problems I have, but that goes for every artist. But I didn't Think I had anything to do with the role at all? So I did the entire film as if it was a stranger I was doing.

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But.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

But then my second son, Gustav, said to me, after having seen the film that he liked very much that he said to me, do you recognize yourself? And I went, no. And he said, look again. And even if I was at home, basically eight months of 12, I only worked four months a year since 1989. If I was at home eight months a year, I wasn't enough home for him. So I started to thinking about it. What became clear to me is, I mean, I have eight children, so I have eight different needs.

[Dave Davies]

Right.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Some children need me a lot, and some don't need me at all. So you can't get it right as a parent.

[Dave Davies]

I read that the director, Joachim Trier, you talked about this, I guess, a year before you started shooting, and he kind of crafted the script for you. Is this true?

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Yeah, he wrote it for me. Yeah. Not as a service to me, but he was thinking of me when he was writing it. He and the writer, Eskel Fougt, he says that it was. The role was such a bad guy that he needed someone nice to do it. So it was a flattering way of putting it.

[Dave Davies]

Yeah. Is he a bad guy, Gustav, your character.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

I don't believe in bad guys.

[Dave Davies]

No? No.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

I mean, the monster that I did in. In Dune was a bad guy. You might say that. But in, like, human beings, we have problems because they are nuanced, real humans, and they're. They are. They're flawed. They're. They're sad and they're comic, and they're everything.

[Dave Davies]

Right. And the gulf between Gustav and his daughter is bridged as the movie eventually reaches its climax. It's. It's quite well done. You know, I don't have a clip to play from the film for an American audience. A lot of the film is not in English. But the other thing that I realized when I was looking for audio was that if you listen to audio versions of dialogue in this film, there are maybe longer pauses than usual. And it occurred to me when I watched the film for the second time that a lot of the acting here is, you know, you're responding with your face and your eyes to what other actors are saying. Is this a Joachim Trier technique?

[Stellan Skarsgård]

It's a human. It's a human trait. I mean, it's the wonderful thing, because normally what is asked of the actor is to act within the line, to make the line one way or make the line another way. Because in the line is all the information that that is given to the audience, and that's not accurate. That's not good. What you need to do, and what I like to do, is to show whatever happens between the lines, under the lines, before the lines, after the lines, and that counterbalance. And sometimes it says that the line you're just saying is a lie, or it says that line you're just saying you don't understand, you know, so it becomes a much richer tapestry of feelings. And Joachim Trier is fantastic in that sense. That is what he loves.

[Dave Davies]

Right. The camera isn't just following the speaker, it is following the listener. Right? Right. Yeah.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

I mean, there's one role that is really, really listening, and that is Inga, one of the daughters, the sort of the stable daughter, the. The center of love in this story. She is almost all the time watching, and she's registered watching. And you get her, fantastically, her performance by watching.

[Dave Davies]

I wanted to talk about this stroke that you had that you suffered, I guess, in 2022. Right. If you're comfortable, could you just tell us what happened when this occurred?

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Well, I just got a stroke. I mean, my wife sort of noticed something on me, and my son, who was a doctor, he said that you should go to the hospital. And it was a stroke. It was rather mild stroke. I lost some muscles in my right side of my body, and I lost something. Some part of my brain I have a bigger problem with. If I'm presenting a long thought chain, like if I'm having a political discussion or anything. I mean, I lose my bearing in the middle of it and just go quiet. But other than that, maybe some balance problems, but other than that, I was fine.

[Dave Davies]

Well, of course, the problem, as I understand it, that you faced with your career was that you couldn't really learn line as you did before, and you found a way to kind of work around this. Tell us what you did, how you got there.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Well, the thing is, I've always had difficulties learning lines in a way, if I didn't sort of have them tailored to my feelings. But the way I totally forgot lines immediately now. And I discovered that I sort of was lying in bed in a hospital, and I was trying to test myself if I could remember the lies. And I sort of. I took a book and I read something and I closed the book, and I didn't remember it. So I called from the hospital. I made a call to Tony Gilroy, who was the showrunner and writer of Andor. I was in the middle of doing them. I had done the first episodes and I hadn't done the second season. And I also owed Denise Villeneuve, who was going to do Dune 2, a phone call. And I talked to them and I said, I cannot remember anything, any lines. And they said, don't worry, we'll fix it. And they said, take it easy. Come in and do what you need to. And I did. And there's a lot of actors that are actually using this technique, which is an earpiece and a prompter. But I found it rather difficult if you wanted to be precise in terms of rhythm.

[Dave Davies]

Yeah.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

And of the rhythm of the scene. And to me, rhythm is very important because you use it as a tool, the way the rhythm you make in the scene. And I had to have the guy, the prompter, put his lines on top of my fellow actor.

[Dave Davies]

Just so we understand this. I mean, you have a little earpiece. Right. And it's not a recording of the lines, it's a live prompter who is saying these lines as you're in the scene, often speaking at the same time as your fellow actors.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Yeah, that's true. He has to speak at the same time, or she has to speak at the same time as the other actor for me to be able to put the cue where I want.

[Dave Davies]

Right.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

So. So. So he. I'm listening to him and I'm listening to. To the fellow actor. And then I react to the fellow actor line. I don't react to the prompter, but I take the text from the prompter and say it.

[Dave Davies]

Wow.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

So it's quite complicated in terms of simultaneous work. It's kind of complicated, but it's feasible and we did it. So I don't think there's any trace of the stroke in my work.

[Dave Davies]

Are you surprised by the tremendous response to sentimental value this film?

[Stellan Skarsgård]

I mean, the power of the response. I am surprised by. You can't anticipate that because it's fantastic. I mean, the audience response, it appeals to, obviously, everybody, from children to old people, because everybody has a family member or are in a relationship to some family member. That is sort of reflected in the. In the film. But it's also. It's a very light film. It's. It deals with. With serious problems and it deals with them seriously and don't take them light, but the film itself is very, very light. It's like you're light as a feather.

[Dave Davies]

Let's talk a little bit about your life here. You. I understand you're did your first acting as a teenager, a Swedish TV series called Bomby Bit. And Me? You played a character named Bondi, who have. I've seen a little video of this. Fortunately, there was no translation, so I don't know what you were saying, but it's kind of like a Huckleberry Finn character. A guy with a straw hat with a lot of moxie, more or less. Right. And it was a hit. Right? You were well known.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Yeah, I mean, it was a TV series and we had one channeled to choose between. Everybody choose it. But, but, but, but. So everybody saw it. So it was, it became very famous as a 16 year old. But I, I've done theater before and I've done sort of amateur theater and I've done also professional theater before I did that.

[Dave Davies]

Okay, so what did. Being famous at 16, I assume this meant people would recognize you on the street and that kind of thing. What effect did that have on you and your life?

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Well, you can say that child actors, they can either succumb to the pressure and the sort of loss of anonymity can turn out really bad, or you can survive it. And it turns out pretty well. And I had very, very thoughtful and brilliant parents who sort of made sure that my head didn't get too big and that I was grounded as a person.

[Dave Davies]

Do you remember how they did that?

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Well, they pointed out to me how different I was from my Persona, my public Persona. And the important thing is don't get that difference between your public Persona yourself too big, because that's when it happens, when it goes wrong.

[Dave Davies]

Right. I wanted to talk about a film that I gather was kind of a breakthrough project for you. 1996. The film is Breaking the Waves. It was your first with. First film with the Danish director Lars von Trier.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Right.

[Dave Davies]

And you star with a very young Emily Watson. I think this was her first film. A lot of sex in this movie, which was interesting. I mean, you were a little older than her. You were kind of in the mid-40s. She was late 20s. Anyway, I want to play a clip here. You play a man who works on an oil rig off the coast of Scotland. And she plays a young woman in a very conservative coastal town near the rig. And the two of you fall in love, get married, have an active and very actively portrayed sex life in the film. And then your character Jan is injured in an accident and paralyzed from the neck down. Bess, your now wife, is devoted to you. And in this scene she is at your bedside and you make a request of her. Listen,

[Stellan Skarsgård]

love is a mighty power, isn't it? If I die, it will be because love Cannot keep me alive. But I can hardly remember what it's like to make love. And if I forget that, then I'll die. Remember when I phoned you from the rake? We made love without being together.

Do you want me to talk to

[Dave Davies]

you like that again?

[Stellan Skarsgård]

I'd love to. Bess, I want you to find a man to make love to and then come back here and tell me about Will feel like you and me being together again. And that. That will keep me alive. I. I can't. This morning, when I. When I told you to get a lover, it wasn't for your sake. It was for my sake. Because I don't want to die. I'm afraid. You understand?

[Dave Davies]

Yes.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

It will be you and me, Beth. Do it for me.

[Dave Davies]

I can't. And that is our guest, Stellan skarsgrd in the 1996 film Breaking the Waves with Emily Watson. I imagine you may not have heard that in a while. Does it bring back some memories?

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Yeah, it sure does. I haven't seen the film since 30 years, so.

[Dave Davies]

Yeah.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Remember very well.

[Dave Davies]

Yeah, I will say, you know that request that you make of her takes the film to some pretty dark places eventually, doesn't it?

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Yeah. He. I. The man is. He asked her first to forget about him because he doesn't function as a man anymore. So she should get another man. And she refuses. And he comes up with this scheme to make her sleep around and find another man. And of course it misfires. Is a stupid way to do it. But what I learned from Lars von Trier is that there's no rules that are sacred. And that's a good, good rule to.

[Dave Davies]

A good rule to have in making art.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

You mean in making art. Yeah. And Lars, his first five films were very controlled. He's a master filmmaker, and he knew it. And he was doing those wild, beautiful films that were totally void of humanity in a way, because the people in it, the actors, they were sort of directed. They were directed in minutiae, and that kills the life. And he realized that. So he constructed, among other things, a dogma, the Dogma Manifesto, which was a way of him to take away all his tools. But also he started with letting the actors free. And one way of making sure that they were free was having signs on the set that said, make mistakes. And he was very adamant about it. You should make mistakes. Because in making mistakes and not being afraid of making mistakes, you're expanding your possibilities and you're expanding the life in the character.

[Dave Davies]

So do you found that a liberating experience as an actor.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Yeah, enormously. That in combination with another director, a Swedish director called Bo Weidenberg, I don't know if you remember him, he was nominated for a couple of Oscars for foreign films and he won in Cannes a couple of times in the 60s and 70s. And he said to me was about a time when we were going to do a film, he said to me and some other very seasoned Swedish actors, he said his very special voice and special accent, he said, I know you know how to do this, but I don't want to see your tools. I want you to be as good as the amateurs that I have in the film. And that is exactly what Lawrence von Trier's way of directing or not directing and Joe Akim Trier's way of not directing is aiming at to get the actors free of their tools, their conventions. They try to do what they think would benefit the career or the film or whatever just to be there. And that was revelation.

[Dave Davies]

We need to take another break here. Let me reintroduce you. We are speaking with Stellan Skarsgrd. He's won a Golden Globe Award and earned an Oscar nomination for his performance in the film Sentimental Value. He'll be back to talk more about his life and career after this short break. I'm Dave Davies, and this is FRESH air.

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[Dave Davies]

Hi, this is Molly Sivi Nesper, digital producer at FRESH air.

[Molly Sivi Nesper]

And this is Terry Gross, host of the show.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

One of the things I do is

[Molly Sivi Nesper]

write the weekly newsletter and I'm a newsletter fan. I read it every Saturday after breakfast. The newsletter includes all the week shows, staff recommendations and Molly Picks timely highlights from the archive. It's a fun read.

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It's also the Only place where we

[Stellan Skarsgård]

tell you what's coming up next week,

[Molly Sivi Nesper]

an exclusive, so [e-mail] fresh air, and look for an email from Molly every Saturday morning.

[Dave Davies]

Not long after the Lars von Trier film Breaking the Waves, you were in Good Will Hunting, which was directed by Gus Van Sant. This was the film set in Boston, written by Ben Affleck and Matt Damon. And I wanted to play a clip here. The story people will remember is about these young friends in Boston who are working class guys. They're kind of brawlers. They like to drink at bars. But one of them, the Matt Damon character, is a janitor in a college and is also a savant, brillian at math and whatever. You. Stellan Skarsgard play a math professor who want to get this brilliant young man to work with you, but he's in jail because he got into a fight and punched a police officer. And you've gotten the court to agree to release him to study math, provided he sees a therapist. So in this scene, we're going to hear you have come to a psychiatrist, played by Robin Williams, who you have a history with, to see if he will agree to see the young man. And the psychiatrist is. Is reluctant and he speaks for us. Let's listen.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

I've got a full schedule.

I'm very busy.

This boy is incredible.

I've never seen anything like him. What makes him so incredible, Jerry?

Ever heard of Ramana, John? Yeah.

No.

It's a man.

He lived over 100 years ago. He was Indian, and he lived in this tiny hut somewhere in India. He had no formal education. He had no access to any scientific work. And. But he came across this old math piece. And from this simple text, he was able to extrapolate theorists that had baffled mathematicians for years. Yeah. Continued fractions. Yeah.

He wrote it with a.

Well, he mailed it to Hardy, and Hardy immediately recognized the brilliance of his work and brought him over to England. And then they worked together for years, creating some of the most exciting math theory ever done. This Romano. John. His genius was unparalleled. Sean, this boy is just like that. But he's. He's a bit defensive, and I need someone who can get through to him. Like me? Yeah, like you. Why? Well, because you have the same kind of background. What background? Oh, you're from the same neighborhood. He's from Southie.

[Maureen Corrigan]

Yeah.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Boy genius from Southie. How many shrinks you go to before me?

Five.

Let me guess. Barry?

Yeah. Henry? Yeah. Not Rick? Sean, please. Mm.

Just meet with him once a week, please.

[Dave Davies]

And that's our guest Stellan Skarsgard. And Robin Williams in the film Good Will Hunting. What was it like working with Robin Williams on this set?

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Yeah, it was fantastic. I mean, he was a very nice man and a very gentleman, but he also. He had like three brains going on at the same time wildly. And he was very funny and he was improvising. He improvised every scene. We had to do some extra takes because he had to get his versions out of his system. But the improvisation was also good for us all. I mean, you had to follow him wherever he went. And also he would follow you wherever you went. And everything became very different from the previous take because of Robin leading you to somewhere that you didn't expect to end up. But what Gus Van Sant got out of it was he got extremely vivid takes and different temperatures in the takes, and he got aggression in some takes and sort of niceness in some takes. And he could cut those takes into any kind he wanted when he was editing, he could take the film where he wanted.

[Dave Davies]

Did you find it challenging to deal with that kind of fast paced improvising from Robin Williams? Had you done that before?

[Stellan Skarsgård]

No, I'm not good at improvising. I did once. I was in Toronto at the film festival and Mike Figgis come up to me and he says, stella, I'd like to do a movie with you. Yeah? Yeah, Cool. And it will be improvised in one take. That is my worst nightmare. So I said yes. And it's called Timecode. It's a very interesting film. You should see it if you. If you can. And it's improvised. It's one hour and a half. And we did five takes, I think, and we choose one because you couldn't. You couldn't cut between them. But what I did was that I made sure that I had lines enough, maybe a hundred lines probably, that I made up that this person could say in those situations. So I could go in and I could improvise those lines if I wanted to, if I couldn't come up with anything better. And I could also improvise Silence.

[Dave Davies]

It says something about you that you pitched this idea and it kind of terrified you and you said, sure, let's do it.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Yes. It's like with Mamma Mia.

[Dave Davies]

Well, I was just going to bring that up. That's the musical where you sing and dance with Pierce Brosnan and Colin Firth. Did you have any singing and dancing experience?

[Stellan Skarsgård]

No, I can't sing, I can't dance.

[Dave Davies]

But you did?

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Yeah, I had you.

[Dave Davies]

And were you happy with the Result,

[Stellan Skarsgård]

the thing is that Mamma mia, they don't need those three men to be able to sing or dance. All the girls are good at singing and dancing and they just want three bimbos to look pretty, be funny and be sexy.

[Dave Davies]

Yeah, there's a lot of fun video you can find on YouTube of you and these other two men in the studio singing these songs, which are songs by abba, which are not the easiest, and just throwing yourselves into them. And it's a lot of fun to watch.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Yeah, well, I don't know, I haven't seen them, but I mean, I was terrified and we were all, all three of us were terrified. We, we got to that studio and we met Bjorn and Benny that had made all these songs and they were very good musicians and they were so nice to us, but we were so frightened. We didn't know how to get it started. But they encouraged us and we threw ourselves into it. We felt that they can always fix it afterwards, right?

[Dave Davies]

Trust the director, trust the process or. All right. You know, I wanted to talk about the HBO series Chernobyl, which you had a major role in in 2019. It's about this accident at the Chernobyl nuclear plant In Ukraine in 1986, the worst nuclear accident in history. And you play a high ranking Soviet government minister who is assigned the day after the explosion by the head of the Soviet Union to go and investigate it. And you are a very formidable comrade here. When you're traveling in helicopter with the scientist with you and you ask him to explain how a reactor works and he hesitates, you say, tell me or I'm going to have a soldier throw you out the window of the helicopter. The scene we're going to hear is one where you and others managing the response to this reactor realize that there could be a catastrophic release of radiation if you don't get three volunteers from the plant to wade into some very badly contaminated water under the crippled reactor and shut down some valves, they're almost certain to get a lethal dose of radiation and not survive. And in the scene you're in the room kind of sitting at the side while the lead scientist is trying to get workers to volunteer for this dangerous assignment, telling them they'll get a cash bonus. But they sense the risk and they're skeptical. And at some point you just stand up and take charge. I think one of the workers who's skeptical speaks first. Let's listen.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Why should we do this for what, 400 rubles? You'll do it because it must be done. You'll do it because nobody else can. But if you don't, millions will die. If you tell me that's not enough, I won't believe you. This is what has always set our people apart. A thousand years of sacrifice in our veins, and every generation must know its own suffering. I spit on the people who did this, and I caused the price I have to pay. I'm making my peace with it now. You make yours and go into that

water

because it must be done.

[Dave Davies]

And that is our guest, Stellan Skarsgard in the HBO series Chernobyl. This is powerful stuff here. The guy that you play here, Boris Shcherbina, was a real, real guy who Soviet Aberatcher got involved in managing the response and eventually died because of the radiation sickness. Didn't he tell us about getting into this character?

[Stellan Skarsgård]

It's an interesting character because he believes in the system and he believes in that it works. You know, the Soviet system or any authoritarian system is based on loyalty and lies to Else. And if you're asked out of loyalty to the power to present lies, you will sort of undermine everything. And everybody in the system were lying about everything in the nuclear reactor system because facts didn't count.

[Dave Davies]

They were used to lying in all aspects of life, right?

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Yeah. And it was also important to not rock the boat, not draw attention from your superiors. They and not sort of be controversial in any way, sit still in the boat. But when he discovers the unfathomable size of this catastrophe, he gradually comes to his senses and realizes that we've made this ourselves, and that's an interesting character to play. And then, of course, he realizes eventually that he'll die as well. But to him, the big revelation is not that he's gonna die, it's that the system that he has been serving all his life is flawed.

[Dave Davies]

Right. And there are many, many other reactors with the same flaws that led to this disaster. And nobody wants to deal with that because they're not telling each other the truth. We are speaking with Swedish actor Stellan Skarsgrd. He's up for the best supporting Actor at the Academy Awards ceremony March 15th. We'll talk more after this break. This is FRESH AIR. You know, you've done a lot of independent films, but plenty of commercial work and often playing characters that are powerful, sometimes evil. And I wanted you just tell us a little bit about the role in Dune, the science fiction series in which you play a galactic bad guy, Baron Harkonnen. I could play a clip, but the audio wouldn't do it justice. Cause what's amazing is what you look like. You want to describe your character and what it took to get ready every day.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Well, it took eight hours of makeup.

[Dave Davies]

Eight hours. Wow.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Eight hours. A lot of prosthetics. I mean, I added 40 kilos of foam to my weight. I'm playing this fat monster, Harkonnen, and he's an emperor. And he. He has one job in the film, and that is to be the sort of the very epitome of evil. And he is. You don't care about his psychological motives or where he was wounded as a kid or whatever. You just need him to have a physical, frightening presence. And to keep that physical, frightening presence. You can't sort of dilute him by letting him be in every scene. You have to have him as few scenes as possible, but immensely powerful in those scenes. And also, they had the idea, which was very good, that he's naked the first time you see him, and then he is in a sort of pajama silky thing. And they also had a lot of more, like, Marvel stuff armor on him, which made him look like a Marvel character, but that would just reduce him. I said, so what you have to do is notice that he will be more frightening naked than in those armors. And he doesn't have to show his arms. He doesn't have to show his guns or anything. And that's what we did. And that's a challenge. And that was fun to do that kind of character that is not explained, that has no excuse for being who he is, and that is totally without compromise.

[Dave Davies]

Yeah. As I was getting ready for this interview and looking over your career, it's really remarkable. You and I are not that far from the same age. And I have this job where I get to talk to really interesting people like you for a radio program. But I feel the effects of age. I don't know how much longer I'm going to be able to do this and kind of meet the standard. You've kind of never been a hotter property, I guess, than now when you got this Oscar nomination and this terrific film and you're in demand. I'm wondering kind of how you think about the coming years. How do you stay sharp? Do you have, you know, physical or mental exercises or diet, you know?

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Well, I've been very much affected by the stroke, so I don't think as much as I did, and I have problems with that, and it's annoying. And, for instance, some books, if they have, you know, one line is over the whole page without any commas that's hard for me to read, and I like reading. But on the other hand, I can still work because being an actor is not a very intellectual work. So I can still work and I can still feel.

[Dave Davies]

It's funny to hear you say that being an actor is not a very intellectual work. Maybe you've done so many films that this comes more naturally to you. I think of it as a pretty demanding profession.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Well, I think all actors want it to be an intellectual worker. They make up all kinds of things to feel that they're doing a job that is. That is worthy of all the money they get, but it's not. I mean, you can have an amateur play better than a professional actor in some. Some scenes and in some cases. And you have to be as good as an amateur. You have to produce real life, real irrationality, real emotions that comes up spontaneously, suddenly, unexpectedly, and it has nothing to do with laying an intellectual puzzle.

[Dave Davies]

Yeah. How do you feel that so many of your children are working as actors? Did you encourage it?

[Stellan Skarsgård]

I didn't encourage it and I didn't discourage it. I don't think that parents should impose their dreams on the kids at all. They shouldn't interfere with their choices. If they want an advice, they'll come to you. In a way, I'm happy because we have something in common. We can talk about most of them. I have one doctor that is not in the business. I can't talk to him about anything

[Dave Davies]

but memories and relatives in life. Yeah, yeah.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

No, no, I'm just joking. We don't talk shop in the sense that I give them advice or they ask for advice because that's not useful. But we, at our dinners, we laugh at people. We gossip about people in the business and we tell about that director and that actor and they misbehave. So it's. We're like normal people.

[Dave Davies]

Yeah. That would be a fun movie, hearing you gossip with your. With your kids. You know, I can imagine that you wouldn't want to give them advice about acting technique and all that, but I wonder if, you know, there are things to learn about just navigating the business. Mistakes you can make with the wrong agent or signing a bad contract. Do you help them with that side?

[Stellan Skarsgård]

No, no. And they don't ask. But probably they've learned some things about my attitude through my attitude to fame and stuff like that. And so they. They learn what they want from what they see.

[Dave Davies]

Right.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

And that's it. You can't sort of impose it on them.

[Dave Davies]

And that attitude being try new stuff do good art.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Yeah, I think so.

[Dave Davies]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

And to be free in a way, in your expressions and not go by the the demands of anybody.

[Dave Davies]

Yeah. Yeah. Stellan Skarsgard, thank you so much for speaking with us.

[Stellan Skarsgård]

Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure.

[Dave Davies]

Stellan Skarsgrd has won a Golden Globe Award and earned an Oscar nomination for his performance in the film Sentimental Value, which is now streaming. The Academy awards ceremony is March 15th. Coming up, Maureen Corrigan reviews the new novel from Allegra Goodman. This is FRESH air. Allegra Goodman's latest novel is called this Is Not About Us, but our book critic Maureen Corrigan says that title is coy. Goodman's readers are bound to see aspects of themselves and their families in these pages. Here's her review.

[Maureen Corrigan]

Some 20 years ago, a cobweb descended over my right eye. What I thought was a migraine turned out to be a semi detached retina. Even saying those words now makes me flinch. After surgery, I lay still for days on my side, eye patch in place. Back then, my husband and daughter went to our local library to find books on tape for me since I'd reviewed Allegra Goodman's novel Intuition just before this scary event happened. They brought home cassettes of two of Goodman's earlier novels, catterskill Falls and the Family Markowitz. I was lucky and my sight recovered. So now I think of that interlude of being marooned on the couch listening to Goodman's novels unspool as one of the most idyllic reading experiences of my life, which is why, even though I've kept up with Goodman's work, I was hesitant to read her new novel, this Is Not About Us. Most of her books have explored intense and enclosed worlds, from the labs of cancer researchers in Intuition to rare book zealots in the Cookbook Collector to the island prison of a 16th century castaway in last year's Isola. This Is Not About Us, however, is different. It's a throwback in form and subject to the Family Markowitz, which came out 30 years ago. Both novels are domestic tales about three generations of a Jewish family, and both are structured as a series of linked stories in which various family members take center stage. I worried that returning to a familiar formula might mean that Goodman was running out of energy as a writer. Then I started reading and stopped worrying. When I finished this Is Not About Us. I kid you not, I read it a second time just to savor all the interconnections, all the shifts in family members opinions of each other. This Is Not About Us opens at the prolonged deathbed of Jean, who at 74, is the youngest of the three Rubinstein sisters. Jeanne's house is packed with flowers the sunflowers from her daughter in law, Melanie, the roses from the Auerbacks next door. The flowers depressed her, especially those already wilting. When she looked at the mums, she felt she wasn't dying fast enough. Sardonic Jean does inevitably depart, and that's when the mood here darkens. Not because of her death, but because of an apple cake that middle sister Sylvia serves at Jean's Shiva. The apple cake recipe originally came from the eldest Rubinstein sister, Helen, but Helen is not a gifted baker like Sylvia. When Sylvia entices the entire extended family to gather around a bundt cake that emits the warm, sweet fragrance of apples, Helen storms out of the Shiva. And she refuses to forgive Sylvia for, well, Goodman postpones the emotionally overwhelming ending to this preposterous and painful family rift till the very last pages of her novel. The 17 chapters of this Is Not About Us can stand as independent stories, but they accrue power from the subtle ways in which they alter our initial impressions of family members. Deal Breaker, for example, focuses on Helen's older daughter Pam, who's in her early 50s and single. In an earlier story, another character describes Pam as a black hole, someone who at the best of times looked askance. But in Deal Breaker, we see Pam cut to the quick when she realizes the man she loves will always put his ex wife and teenage daughter first. That's when her mother Helen's superhuman ability to hold a grudge. Remember the apple cake becomes a quality that fortifies Pam talking with her parents about the reason for the breakup. Pam struggles to characterize her ex boyfriend's steadfast loyalty to his ex wife and daughter. She asks her mother for the word that describes those trees that hold onto their leaves all winter. Marcescent, says Helen, because she knows the word for everything. She is such a puzzler. That's how he is, pam tells her parents. Good for him, says Helen, and Pam knows she means good riddance. Pam can't help but admire her mother's clarity. Helen is difficult. She's daunting. But she's crisp. She never clings. Goodman herself is pretty marcescent. As a writer, she holds fast to the gifts that have marked her since her earliest books psychological acuity, humor and an abiding curiosity about the volatile chemistry of people bound together by affinity, profession or blood.

[Dave Davies]

Maureen Corrigan teaches literature at Georgetown University. She reviewed this IS NOT About Us by Allegra Goodman. On tomorrow's show, as President Trump waves an attack on Iran, pledges billions to his new board of peace, has an unconventional team negotiating to end the war in Ukraine and still harbors ambitions to acquire Greenland, we speak with the New York Times, David Sanger. We'll discuss Trump's international agenda and the impact of the Supreme Court decision on tariffs. I hope you can join us. FRESH air's executive producer is Sam Brigger. Our technical director in engineer is Audrey Bentham. We had additional engineering help from Adam Stanischewski. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Anne Marie Baldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Yakundi, Anna Bauman and Nico Gonzalez Whistler. Our digital media producer is Molly Sivi Nesper. Roberta Shorrock directs the show for Terry Gross and Tonya Mosley. I'm Dave Davies for.