Fresh Air: The Dark Secrets of Johnson & Johnson
Episode: The Dark Secrets Of Johnson & Johnson
Release Date: April 10, 2025
Host: Tonya Mosley
Guest: Gartner Harris, Investigative Journalist
Introduction
In the April 10, 2025 episode of NPR's Fresh Air, host Tonya Mosley engages in a compelling conversation with investigative journalist Gartner Harris. The discussion centers around Harris's groundbreaking book, No More: The Dark Secrets of Johnson & Johnson, which delves into the controversial business practices of the conglomerate, particularly focusing on its talcum powder products and their alleged links to cancer.
1. The Emotional Connection to Johnson & Johnson Products
Tonya Mosley opens the conversation by highlighting the deep-seated emotional connections many people have with Johnson & Johnson (J&J) products, such as baby powder, band-aids, and Tylenol. These products have been integral to the lives of multiple generations, fostering a sense of trust and comfort.
“Pure Johnson's baby powder from Johnson and Johnson. It's a feeling you never outgrow.”
— Gartner Harris [00:53]
2. Historical Awareness of Talc and Asbestos
Harris unveils the historical context, revealing that J&J was aware of the presence of asbestos in its talc-based baby powder as early as the 1940s and 1950s. Despite the emerging scientific consensus on the dangers of asbestos, particularly its link to mesothelioma, J&J executives downplayed these concerns initially.
“Johnson and Johnson became aware of the presence of asbestos in its talc based baby powder roughly in the 1940s and 50s.”
— Gartner Harris [03:00]
3. Scientific Link Between Talc and Cancer
The conversation delves into pivotal studies, especially the 1982 Harvard epidemiological study, which established a significant correlation between long-term use of talc-based baby powder and an increased risk of ovarian cancer. Harris emphasizes the challenges in proving causation due to the latency period of several decades between exposure and disease manifestation.
“The latency period for asbestos related cancers... can be decades.”
— Gartner Harris [08:33]
4. Johnson & Johnson's Denial and Legal Strategies
Despite mounting scientific evidence, J&J consistently denied the presence of asbestos in their talc products and attacked the credibility of the research and scientists involved. This defensive stance has led to a myriad of lawsuits, some resulting in substantial verdicts against the company.
“What Johnson and Johnson did was attack the science, attack the scientists, and deny throughout this period of time that they had ever seen evidence that asbestos was in their baby powder.”
— Gartner Harris [10:11]
5. Aggressive Marketing and Emotional Branding
Harris explores J&J's marketing strategies, which fostered emotional trust by associating their products with comfort and care from the very beginning of life. A 1985 commercial exemplifies this approach, embedding the brand in the personal lives of consumers.
“When I say Johnson's baby powder, how many of you can just smell it? And the entire room would light up.”
— Gartner Harris [14:00]
6. Resistance to Transitioning to Safer Alternatives
While other companies began phasing out talc in favor of safer alternatives like cornstarch due to health concerns, J&J persisted with talc-based products longer, primarily because of their strong market dominance and emotional brand connection. It wasn't until recently that J&J transitioned to cornstarch.
“As that research has built up, Johnson and Johnson's defense has gotten more and more difficult...”
— Gartner Harris [20:32]
7. The Role of the FDA and Regulatory Oversight
Harris criticizes the FDA's lack of proactive testing and oversight concerning cosmetic products like baby powder. The FDA's Cosmetic Office has been chronically underfunded, relying on companies to self-regulate, which allowed J&J to conceal their product contamination effectively.
“Johnson and Johnson had hundreds of test results that were concerning that showed the presence of asbestos, but the company didn't report a single one of them back to the FDA.”
— Gartner Harris [22:40]
8. Personal Stories and Impact on Individuals
Harris shares poignant stories, including that of Mary Pazder, an oncology nurse who succumbed to ovarian cancer. Her husband, Rick Pazder, sought justice against J&J, highlighting the personal toll of the company's negligence.
“Mary got ovarian cancer, and I was with her as she fought this illness... she asked the FDA to approve an experimental use of a particular cancer compound...”
— Gartner Harris [36:37]
9. Johnson & Johnson's Legal Maneuvering and Bankruptcy Filings
The episode outlines J&J's extensive legal battles, with over 93,000 lawsuits filed against them. The company has often prevailed in court, but persistent judicial and public pressure has weakened their stance, leading to significant financial judgments and multiple bankruptcy filings aimed at halting ongoing litigation.
“Their bankruptcy filings have frozen nearly all baby powder lawsuits since 2021...”
— Gartner Harris [39:15]
10. Societal Implications: Racism and Misogyny
Harris touches on the broader societal issues intertwined with talc use, including racism and misogyny. Talc has historically been used as a skin whitener and to mask natural bodily functions, reflecting deeper cultural and gendered dynamics.
“Talc has for thousands of years been a basic skin whitener... and used by women to cover up normal vaginal smells.”
— Gartner Harris [25:30]
11. Media Relations and Advertising Influence
The discussion highlights J&J's significant influence over the media through extensive advertising. Journalists attempting to investigate and report on J&J's malpractices often faced threats of losing lucrative advertising deals, thereby stifling critical reporting.
“If you tackle this company, you do so at the risk of the very funds that are used to fund journalism.”
— Gartner Harris [26:43]
12. Broader Corporate Practices: The Tylenol Case
Harris also explores other aspects of J&J's corporate practices, notably the Tylenol case of the 1980s. While the company was lauded for creating tamper-resistant packaging following the cyanide poisonings, Harris asserts that previous tampering incidents were overlooked, and the FDA's role was complicit due to regulatory shortcomings.
“The company from very early on has taken a kind of no prisoner stance to litigation and to claims against it.”
— Gartner Harris [31:00]
Conclusion
Gartner Harris's No More: The Dark Secrets of Johnson & Johnson provides an in-depth examination of one of America's most trusted corporations and the dark underbelly of its business practices. Through meticulous research and personal narratives, Harris uncovers the extensive timeline of negligence, legal battles, and societal impacts stemming from J&J's talc-based products. The episode serves as a critical reminder of the importance of corporate accountability and the need for stringent regulatory oversight to protect public health.
Notable Quotes
-
Emotional Branding Impact
“It's a feeling you never outgrow.”
— Gartner Harris [00:53] -
Scientific Linkage
“Johnson and Johnson became aware of the presence of asbestos in its talc based baby powder roughly in the 1940s and 50s.”
— Gartner Harris [03:00] -
Latency of Cancer
“The latency period for asbestos related cancers... can be decades.”
— Gartner Harris [08:33] -
Legal Strategy
“What Johnson and Johnson did was attack the science, attack the scientists, and deny throughout this period of time that they had ever seen evidence that asbestos was in their baby powder.”
— Gartner Harris [10:11] -
Marketing Tactics
“When I say Johnson's baby powder, how many of you can just smell it? And the entire room would light up.”
— Gartner Harris [14:00] -
FDA Critique
“Johnson and Johnson had hundreds of test results that were concerning that showed the presence of asbestos, but the company didn't report a single one of them back to the FDA.”
— Gartner Harris [22:40] -
Personal Impact
“Mary got ovarian cancer, and I was with her as she fought this illness...”
— Gartner Harris [36:37] -
Media Influence
“If you tackle this company, you do so at the risk of the very funds that are used to fund journalism.”
— Gartner Harris [26:43]
Further Reflections
The episode not only sheds light on the specific case of J&J but also raises broader questions about corporate ethics, regulatory effectiveness, and the role of media in uncovering and reporting corporate malfeasance. Gartner Harris's investigative work serves as an essential contribution to public discourse, urging consumers, policymakers, and journalists to remain vigilant and demand accountability from powerful corporations.