The Making Of ‘Young Frankenstein’

Summary

Fresh Air (NPR)

Episode: The Making Of ‘Young Frankenstein’
Date: October 31, 2025

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Episode Overview

To celebrate the 50th anniversary of Mel Brooks’ classic horror comedy Young Frankenstein (1974) and Halloween, Fresh Air devotes this episode to exploring the film’s creation, creative influences, memorable moments, and enduring legacy. Host David Bianculli introduces a series of archive interviews with cast members—including Gene Wilder, Teri Garr, Peter Boyle, and Cloris Leachman—as well as Mel Brooks, providing an in-depth, behind-the-scenes oral history full of warmth and humor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Genesis of ‘Young Frankenstein’

• Gene Wilder’s Inspiration: Wilder, terrified by the original Frankenstein films as a child, wanted to create a film with a happier ending and a comedic twist.

• Writing Collaboration: Wilder wrote daily, with Brooks reviewing and responding, sparking creative debates and breakthroughs.

  “I was writing every day, and then Mel would come to the house and read what I'd written ... and then he'd go away, and I would write all the next day, and he'd come and look at it.” —Gene Wilder (03:09)

Memorable Script Dispute:

• The “Puttin’ on the Ritz” Scene: Initially, Brooks opposed the musical number, calling it “frivolous.”

  • Wilder passionately defended its inclusion, convincing Brooks through sheer enthusiasm.

  “My temperature rose ... I started screaming. And then all of a sudden he said, okay, it’s in ... I wasn’t sure if it was right. And I thought if you didn’t argue for it, then it was wrong, and if you did, it was right.” —Gene Wilder recounting Mel Brooks' process (03:34)

2. Casting, Characters, and Iconic Gags

• Assembling the Cast: Brooks and Wilder built an ensemble with comedic and dramatic pedigrees: Cloris Leachman, Gene Hackman, Peter Boyle, Madeline Kahn, Teri Garr, and Marty Feldman.
• Classic Jokes Origin:
  • “Walk this way”: Mel Brooks brought this vaudeville bit to the set; Wilder had never heard it before, highlighting Brooks’ deep roots in classic comedy.
  • “What knockers”: An improvised Brooks suggestion to Wilder as he lifted Garr; not in the script but became iconic.

3. Distinct Comic Traditions: Brooks & Wilder

• Different Backgrounds: Brooks brought in East Coast/Borscht Belt/vaudevillian humor; Wilder’s sensibility was shaped by more literary or absurd styles.

  • Wilder admired but didn't share Brooks' roots: “I certainly didn’t have New York Jewish humor, but I was in three Mel Brooks films, so people thought I was a connoisseur.” (14:23)

  “Mine was Sherlock Holmes, Smarter Brother ... his was much broader, I think, much funnier, too.” —Gene Wilder (15:26)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“Puttin’ on the Ritz” Performance

• [05:49–07:03]
  • Wilder (as Dr. Frankenstein) presents his ‘cultured man about town’ monster to a Transylvanian audience, launching into “Puttin' on the Ritz” with Peter Boyle’s monster—a set piece cited by every interviewee as a highlight and creative risk.

“Walk This Way”

• [10:33–11:46]
  • Brooks to Marty Feldman: “Bend over and say to Gene, walk this way. And then crouch down and walk away.”
  • Wilder’s confusion and subsequent explanation exemplifies the blending of classic vaudeville into the film’s DNA.

“What Knockers”

• [12:22–12:40]
  • As Gene lifts Teri Garr’s Inga, his head in her chest, he quips: “What knockers.” Inga (Garr): “Thank you, Doctor.”

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Segment-by-Segment Breakdown & Timestamps

Opening & Context

• [00:17] David Bianculli sets the stage, tracing the film’s affectionate parody of Universal horror films and describing the original conception (00:17–02:51).

Gene Wilder Interview with Terry Gross (2005)

• Writing process with Brooks, origins of key jokes, their creative differences and chemistry.
  • [03:09] Collaboration and “Puttin’ on the Ritz”
  • [05:05] Humor as a plot device (convincing Transylvanian scientists)
  • [07:20] Childhood fears prompting the film’s premise
  • [10:33] Invention of “Walk this way”
  • [12:22] “What knockers” scene and improvisational spirit
  • [13:15] Jewish humor, roots, and differences from Brooks

Teri Garr Interview with Terry Gross (2005)

• Audition hardships, relationship with Brooks and cast, family showbiz history.
  • [18:35] Getting cast: auditioning, learning a German accent overnight
  • [19:57] Comic timing—her origins and love for Brooks’ humor
  • [20:35] “Shiksa goddess” nickname, Jewish humor, and on-set camaraderie
  • [21:10] Her mother’s career, secrecy on set, Mel's warmth

Peter Boyle Interview with Terry Gross (1988)

• Personal take on the monster, influence of Boris Karloff, physical comedy.
  • [24:32] Getting cast—prior relationship with Wilder & Feldman
  • [25:09] Channelling Karloff from childhood memories
  • [26:03] Intentionally rudimentary makeup to preserve 1930s film style
  • [26:50] Tap-dancing as the monster—learning comedy through discomfort

Cloris Leachman Interview with Terry Gross (2009)

• Creating Frau Blucher—accent, character, and gags.
  • [28:29] Finding the character through costume and coaching
  • [32:42] Running gag: horses whinnying at her name (joke: ‘Blucher’ means glue)
  • [33:06] Learning from Brooks: taking direction, trusting improvisation

Mel Brooks Interview with David Bianculli (2013)

• Parody with respect, love of genres, directing actors, and collaboration anecdotes
  • [35:42] Lampooning genres as acts of genuine admiration
  • [39:00] Hitchcock’s mentorship on High Anxiety, mutual respect
  • [40:11] Encouraging female comedic talent—Kahn, Leachman, Garr
  • [41:05] Reluctance, then acceptance of “Puttin' on the Ritz”
  • [43:14] Directing Peter Boyle—“Sing it from your heart. Sing it like it's a cry of love and freedom.”

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Highlighted Segment Timestamps

• 03:34—Wilder describes arguing for “Puttin' on the Ritz”
• 07:35—Wilder on childhood fear of Frankenstein, how that shaped the film
• 10:33—Legend of “Walk this way,” vaudeville roots
• 12:22—“What knockers” scene creation, Brooks’ improvisational genius
• 14:23–15:26—Wilder reflects on comic style differences with Brooks
• 18:35—Teri Garr on auditioning, and Mel Brooks' quirks
• 26:50—Peter Boyle tap-dancing in monster shoes
• 32:42–32:56—Cloris Leachman on the origin of the ‘horses whinny’ gag
• 35:42—Brooks on loving the genres he spoofs; why parody matters
• 41:05—Resolution of “Puttin’ on the Ritz” dispute and its legacy

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Narrative Flow & Cultural Legacy

The episode showcases “Young Frankenstein” as the joyful product of both affectionate homage and comedic experimentation. Every participant recalls the film’s creation as a period of deep collaboration, improvisation, and mutual trust—punctuated by Brooks’ willingness to test comic ideas until the cast fought for them to stay.

The musical “Puttin’ on the Ritz” number stands as the film’s comedic zenith and a marker of Brooks and Wilder’s creative tension—ultimately, a lesson in following the funny wherever it leads.

The ‘Walk this way’ and ‘What knockers’ gags reveal how improvisation and classic stage humor were refreshed for cinema, with legendary actors learning new tricks, and Brooks continually championing and respecting women’s comedic capabilities.

As Mel Brooks puts it:

“I loved horror films and I had fun with them. But I also saluted the glory of ... Frankenstein and Dracula ... I cherish those movies because they really lifted my spirits and are indelibly engraved in my brain as important steps in my world education.” (35:42)

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Takeaways

• Young Frankenstein endures because it’s irreverent but never mean; crafted with technical and emotional fidelity to the “real” Frankenstein, and imbued with layers of classic and contemporary humor.
• The film’s behind-the-scenes magic—creative debates, improv, and respect between eccentric talents—mirrors the onscreen playfulness that audiences continue to love.
• Its best moments, like the top-hat-and-tails monster dance, were hard-won by risk-taking and conviction in the idea that “funny” justifies its own existence.

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For those discovering or revisiting the classic, this Fresh Air tribute offers rich context, laughter, and stories that illuminate what it took to bring this monster comedy to life.

Transcript

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[David Biancolli]

This is FRESH AIR. I'm David Biancooli. In 1974, Mel Brooks directed and co wrote one of the greatest film genre parodies in movie history. Actually, two of them. Blazing Saddles, his western parody, came out in February of that year. And in December, Young Frankenstein premiered brilliantly, lampooning and celebrating horror movies in general and James Whale's 1930s Frankenstein movies in particular. Because until December, it's still technically the 50th anniversary year of that monster movie comedy. And because today is Halloween, we decided it would be a Halloween treat to devote today's show to Young Frankenstein. Before that, film writer director Mel Brooks already had cast Gene Wilder in two of his best comedies, the Producers and Blazing Saddles. While filming that latter movie with Brooks, Gene Wilder started sketching out an idea for a movie of his own. It was a comic version of Frankenstein and the Bride of Frankenstein, conceived to have him play the starring role as the grandson of mad scient Victor Frankenstein. Wilder asked Brooks to co write and direct it, and they began work on it immediately. Young Frankenstein was shot in black and white, and Brooks was so faithful to the pace and look of Wales original films, he even tracked down and used the original lab equipment from the Frankenstein movies. He also assembled an astounding cast in support of Gene Wilder. Two previous Oscar winners, Cloris Leachman and Gene Hackman, eagerly accepted minor roles, and also in the cast were Peter Boyle, Madeline Caan, Terry Garr and Marty Feldman. In an early scene, Wilder, as the scientist's grandson, is met at the Transylvania train station by his future lab assistant, played by Feldman.

[Actor Reading Script Lines]

Dr. Frankenstein.

[Gene Wilder]

Frankenstein? You're putting me on. No, it's pronounced Frankenstein.

[Actor Reading Script Lines]

Do you also say Frodwick?

[Gene Wilder]

No, Frederick.

[Supporting Actor Reading Script Lines]

Well, why isn't it Frodwick Frankenstein?

[Gene Wilder]

It isn't. It's Frederick Frankenstein.

[Actor Reading Script Lines]

I see.

[Gene Wilder]

You must be Igor.

[Actor Reading Script Lines]

No, it's pronounced Igor.

[Gene Wilder]

But they told me it was Igor.

[Actor Reading Script Lines]

Well, they were wrong then, weren't they?

[David Biancolli]

On today's show, we'll listen to archive interviews featuring Gene Wilder, Terry Gar, Cloris Leachman, Peter Boyle and Mel Brooks himself. We'll start with Gene Wilder, who spoke with Terry Gross in 2005. He recalled how he and Mel began collaborating on Young Frankenstein.

[Gene Wilder]

I was writing every day, and then Mel would come to the house and read what I'd written, and then he'd say, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, okay. But we need a villain, or we need whatever it was. And we'd talk a little bit, and then he'd go away, and I would write all the next day, and he'd come and look at it and. And then one day, when he read the pages I had written about Dr. Frankenstein and the creature sing and dance to Putting on the Ritz, he said, are you crazy? This is frivolous. You're just being frivolous. Well, my temperature rose, and after 20 minutes or so of arguing, my color got from. Went from red to, I think, blue or purple. I started screaming. And then all of a sudden he said, okay, it's in. And I said, well, why did you put me through this? And he said, I wasn't sure if it was right. And I thought if you didn't argue for it, then it was wrong, and if you did, it was right. So you convinced me.

[Terry Gross]

Well, this is such a classic scene. I mean, you as Dr. Frankenstein, are presenting in a theater, your creation, you know, the Frankenstein monster played by Peter Boyle. And you're both in top hat and tails. You introduce him, then you sing a duet of Putting on the Ritz and, you know, do a little soft shoe. And it's really such a wonderful scene. So how did you come up with a way to. With an excuse to do it, you know, with the plot point to get in the production number?

[Gene Wilder]

Because we had to convince the scientific members of Transylvania that with the procedure I was using on the creature, he could be taught to be a civilized human being. What I called a man about town. And it was for their sake that I was doing it. And I just thought of the funniest way of doing it, that's all. But instead of a monster who's going to kill their children, it was someone who could sing and dance.

[Terry Gross]

Well, I think we have no choice here but to listen to you and Peter Boyle doing Puttin on the Ritz from the soundtrack of Young Frankenstein.

[Gene Wilder]

Ladies and gentlemen, up until now, you've seen the creature perform the simple mechanics of motor activity. But for what you are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius. Ladies and gentlemen, mesdames et messieurs, Dammen und herren, from what was once an inarticulate mass of lifeless tissues, may I now present a cultured, sophisticated man about town. Hit it. If you're blue and you don't know where to go to why don't you go where fashion sits? Win the beast different types who Wear a date coat Pants with stripes or cutaway coat Perfect fits Win the beast Dressed up like a million dollar trooper Trying mighty hard to look like Gary Cooper Hoover come, let's mix Where Rockefellers walk with sticks or umbrellas in their.

[Actor Reading Script Lines]

Middle Gene Wilder, you.

[Terry Gross]

You came up with the premise for Young Frankenstein. You officially share credits with Milbrook shares credit with you for the screenplay and the. And the screen story. What gave you the idea of writing Young Frankenstein? Did you love the Frankenstein movie?

[Gene Wilder]

Well, at the time, I didn't know why, but I know now that when I was a little boy, I was scared to death of the Frankenstein film. Films, actually, because there were four of them in particular that influenced me. And in all these years later, I wanted it to come out with a happy ending. And I think it was my fear of the Frankenstein movies when I was 8 and 9 and 10 years old, that made me want to write that story, that I was a young doctor or dental hygienist and found out that my great grandfather, Beaufort von Frankenstein, left me the whole estate. That was all I had in mind at the time. And then my agent at the time, Mike Medevoy, before he became a movie mogul, called me up and said, how about a movie with you and Peter Boyle and Marty Feldman? And I said, what? What makes you think of that? He said, because I now handle you and Peter and Marty. And I said, well, as it happens, I do have something. Well, send it to me right now. I said, no, I want to work on it a little bit. And that night, I wrote two more pages, the Transylvania station scene, almost verbatim, the way it is in the film. And then I sent it off to him and he said, I think I can sell this and maybe we can get Mel to direct. And I said, I don't think he's going to direct something he didn't conceive of. And Mel, you have to understand this important point. He had done the producers for $50,000 over two years, and he didn't make a penny from it. Then he did the 12 chairs, $50,000 for two more years and didn't make a penny from it. That's four years of work. And then they offered him quite a bit of money to direct Young Frankenstein, and he took it. He called me first. He said, what are you getting me into? I said, nothing you don't want to get into. He said, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. The next day I got a call saying, mel's going to do It.

[Terry Gross]

There's quite a few really classic jokes in Young Frankenstein. One of them, and this seems like it's probably the oldest joke in the world, and I'm not sure.

[Gene Wilder]

Oh, dear.

[Terry Gross]

I think you know the walk this way joke. Now, why don't you describe how it happens in the movie and tell me if it's something that you and Brooks came up with or whether this joke has a long story, previous life. Because it seems like. I don't know I ever heard it before the movie, but it seems like it should have been around forever. Do you know what I mean?

[Gene Wilder]

I had never heard of it before. And while we were filming outdoors on location, Mel says to Marty Feldman. Marty, who's playing.

[Terry Gross]

Who's playing the doctor's assistant.

[Gene Wilder]

Yeah, Igor.

[Terry Gross]

Your assistant?

[Gene Wilder]

Yeah, or Igor. He says, bend over and say to Gene, walk this way. And then crouch down and walk away. And I said, mel, what does that mean? He said, I'll tell you later. I'll tell you later. Just do it for now. And so I took the cane and I followed Marty after the camera started rolling, and I walked this funny walk. And everyone laughed afterwards. And I said, now will you tell me what it means? He says, a man has a terrible case of hemorrhoids. He goes into a drugstore and he says, have you got some talcum powder for me? I've got terrible hemorrhoids. And the pharmacist says, walk this way. And he said, if I could walk that way, I wouldn't need the talcum powder. And I said, where did that come from? He says, it's an old vaudeville routine. It's years old, but I had never heard of it before, but it worked.

[Terry Gross]

And another real classic one, when you get to the. You get to the castle, there's these large. Large, like, brass door knockers with knobs. With knobs on them. And as you're approaching the door, you lift Terry Garr. Yeah, that's right. You lift Terry Garr out of the wagon that you've arrived in, and your head is kind of buried in her chest as Igor knocks on the door and you say, no, you tell it. You tell it.

[Gene Wilder]

Well, he knocks on the door, and just when Terry's breast is brushed up against my face, I look and see the knockers, and I say, what knockers? And she says, thank you, Doctor.

[Terry Gross]

Now, how'd you guys come up with that one? It also sounds like this is a classic.

[Gene Wilder]

No, that's Mel. That's Mel. It wasn't written. He just said, when you lift her off the wagon like that. Look at the knockers and say, what knockers? Well, I thought it was very funny at the time, but that wasn't written. That was just improvised. It wasn't improvised. He just said, say what knockers? And it worked.

[Terry Garr]

What knockers? Oh, thank you, Doctor.

[Terry Gross]

Now, I'm thinking you and Mel Brooks, you're both Jewish, but you're from very different parts of the United States and probably had different experiences growing up because he's very east coast, very New York, very borscht belt. And you grew up. Was it Milwaukee?

[Gene Wilder]

Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

[Terry Gross]

Yeah. So, I mean, didn't have the borsch belt.

[Gene Wilder]

No, no, no.

[Terry Gross]

Probably didn't know vaudeville as well as he did.

[Gene Wilder]

No, don't say as well. I didn't know it at all. I'd read about a few things, but that's all.

[Terry Gross]

So what were some of the points of commonality and difference between the two of you and your sense of theater and showbiz?

[Gene Wilder]

Well, when I was still in school and I saw your show of Shows, which was my favorite television show, with Sid Caesar, Mel Brooks was one of the writers. At first. He started out as a low man on the totem pole until he advanced to head writer. But I had a feeling for what he had written. I wasn't sure if I was right. And then when I met him, there was a closeness because I loved that kind of humor, his kind of humor. It wasn't any part of my life in my humor, but I just appreciated it. There was an affinity there somewhere. And in so many ways, we're not at all alike. And in some ways, we're very much alike. When people, especially from France, would ask me to talk about or so they could write about New York Jewish humor, I'd say, I don't know anything about New York Jewish humor. I know who Zero Mostel was, and I know Mel Brooks, but that's about all I could tell you about New York Jewish humor. And I certainly didn't have New York Jewish humor, but I was in three Mel Brooks films, so people thought I was a connoisseur of New York Jewish humor. My humor was quite different. Mine was Sherlock Holmes, Smarter Brother and the World's Greatest Lover and Haunted Honeymoon, the Woman in Red Things See no Evil, Hear no Evil. But his was much broader, I think, much funnier, too.

[David Biancolli]

Gene Wilder speaking with Terry Gross in 2005. He died in 2016. After a break. Another young Frankenstein star and standout, Terry Garr, as the doctor's very smitten and sexy lab assistant. This is FRESH AIR.

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[Gene Wilder]

I have kids under 18, so, like, time is very limited.

[David Biancolli]

That's why at BetterHelp, our therapists try to have sessions, sometimes at night, depending.

[Gene Wilder]

On the therapist, or during the weekend. So I think that's what we need to tell the parents. You're not alone.

[David Biancolli]

We can help you out.

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If a flexible schedule would help you, visit betterhelp.com NPR for 10% off your first month of online therapy. Support for FRESH AIR comes from whyy presenting the Pulse, a weekly podcast about health and science. Each episode is full of great stories and big ideas, fueled by curiosity and wonder. Can you learn to listen to your intuition? What should electric cars sound like? Why can it be so hard to get an accurate diagnosis? How do fungi communicate? Check out the Pulse, available where you get your podcasts.

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[David Biancolli]

Next up in our Young Frankenstein appreciation is Teri Garr, who was nominated for an Oscar for her supporting actress work in Tootsie. Earlier in her career, she had danced in nine Elvis Presley movies and made her acting screen debut opposite Gene Hackman in the Conversation. In Young Frankenstein, she played Inga, the assistant and girlfriend to Gene Wilder's mad scientist. In this scene from Young Frankenstein, the doctor's fiance, Elizabeth, has been escorted to the castle by his assistant, Igor, where she meets the doctor's other lab assistant, the beautiful Inga. Madeleine Kahn plays Elizabeth, Marty Feldman plays Igor, and Teri Garr plays Inga.

[Gene Wilder]

I'd like you to meet my assistants, Inga and Igor.

[Terry Gross]

How do you do? How do you do?

[Gene Wilder]

This is my financier, Elizabeth.

[Terry Garr]

Oh, I'm so happy to meet you at last.

[Gene Wilder]

Finance. Excuse me, darling.

[Terry Gross]

What is it exactly that you do do?

[Terry Garr]

Well, I assist Dr. Frankenstein in the laboratory. We have intellectual discussions, aren't we?

[NPR Sponsor Announcer]

As a matter of fact, we were.

[Gene Wilder]

Just having fun as you were driving. Igor, would you give me a hand with the bags?

[Supporting Actor Reading Script Lines]

Certainly.

[Gene Wilder]

You take the blonde and I'll take the one in the tavern.

[David Biancolli]

Terry Gross spoke with Terry Garr in 2005.

[Terry Gross]

Well, let me ask you about another movie you were in. And, and that is Young Frankenstein or Frankenstein.

[Terry Garr]

Frankenstein.

[Supporting Actor Reading Script Lines]

Yeah.

[Terry Gross]

Yes. Directed by Mel Brooks. How did you get to work with him?

[Terry Garr]

Well, there was rumors going around town that there was a big movie being cast and there was lots of girls going up for this audition. And I got my agent to get me in on it. You know, 500 girls. When I went there, Mel Brooks said, we're casting for the part of the fiance. The financier, he called it. But I want Madeline Kahn to do it, I just want you to know. But she doesn't want to do it because she doesn't want to do a comedy. But I'm auditioning all these girls. So I went in and I got a call back and call back. And I was very excited that I even got a call back. Finally one day I got a call back and he said, madeleine has decided to do this part. But if you can come back tomorrow, I'll give you a chance to audition for the part of Inga, the lab assistant. But you have to have a German accent. Can you come? And it's like I had 24 hours to get a German accent together. And I did because I copied Cher's wig maker who had a German accent.

[Terry Gross]

You were working on the Sonny and Cher show at the time?

[Terry Garr]

Yes, I was working on the Sonny and Cher show at the time in Seva Scaranata Vista, Vegas.

[Terry Gross]

Did you learn things about comic timing working with Mel Brooks on Young Frankenstein?

[Terry Garr]

Well, I don't think you can learn comic timing. I think I must have innately grown up with, you know, my mother and father from vaudeville and stuff and lots of jokes around the house. But I had been working on Sonny and Cher show as a dancer and also in these horrible comedy sketches. And I sort of had learned comic timing then. Also I was an incredible fan of mel Brooks, the 2000 year old man. I listened to those records hundreds of times as a kid and memorized them and did them over and over again. So I sort of knew his rhythm. But he is one of God's gifts to this planet. Mel Brooks is just the funniest man in the world. He is really funny.

[Terry Gross]

What did he call you? A shiksa goddess.

[Terry Garr]

Shiksa goddess. My long waisted shiksa goddess? No. And then he called Peter Boyle and I come here, Trey. We were both Trey. I don't know what it means exactly. And then at one point, not kosher. I said, well, Mel, you're so wonderful. I wish I was Jewish. You're Jewish. You are Jewish by injection.

[Actor Reading Script Lines]

I don't know what he meant, but okay.

[Terry Gross]

Can we talk about your parents a little bit, please? Your mother, as you mentioned, was a Rockette. She was. You say she had wonderful legs. She did what? Hosiery ads too. She show off her legs?

[Terry Garr]

Yeah. She called herself Legs Lind.

[Terry Gross]

And then she also was like a wardrobe person for several TV shows.

[Terry Garr]

Yeah, I think a lot of dancers go into wardrobe afterwards. I don't know why that happens, but it's true. And she became a costumer in LA. And my father died when I was 11 and he was in vaudeville and they met in a Broadway show, my parents. And then he came out to Hollywood to be in movies and that didn't pan out and he became very ill and he passed away. So my mother had to support three kids by her wits. So she went and got a job in the studio as a costumer. In fact, she was a costumer on Young Frankenstein before I even got the job. And she told don't tell anyone I'm your mother. What is this about? It's so weird. Anyway, I learned that.

[Terry Gross]

Why didn't she want anyone to know?

[Terry Garr]

I do not know to this day.

[Terry Gross]

Was it for her sake or your sake?

[Terry Garr]

I don't know. But finally I told Mel, I said, you know that lady over there? That's my mom. He was so great because he's just a great guy. And he, well, bring her over here. He was wonderful.

[David Biancolli]

Terry Garr speaking to Terry Gross In 2005 Terry Garr died last year after a break. We'll hear from three more young Frankenstein alumni, Peter Boyle, Cloris Leachman and Mel Brooks. And Justin Chang reviews the new film Begonia. I'm David Biancooli and This is FRESH AIR.

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[David Biancolli]

On today's Halloween show, we're saluting Young Frankenstein, the Mel Brooks Gene Wilder monster movie comedy that is celebrating its golden anniversary. Next up is Peter Boyle. Today, Boyle is best known for his comedy work on television as Ray's grumbling father on the long running sitcom Everybody Loves Raymond. But by the time he agreed to play the creature in Young Frankenstein, Boyle was a dramatic character actor with roles in Taxi Driver, the Candidate and Joe. Terry Gross spoke with Peter Boyle in 1988.

[Terry Gross]

How did you get the part of the monster?

[Peter Boyle]

Uh, gee, I forget how I got it. I knew Gene Wilder and Marty Feldman and I knew Mel and there was a conversation and they wanted to do a spoof on Frankenstein and it was decided, you know, I was best for the monster, Marty was best for Igor and blah, blah, blah like that. And Gene Wilder, you know, wrote the original script and then he and Mel rewrote it and it became a movie. It just happened.

[Terry Gross]

So did you go back and watch the original study Boris Cardinal?

[Peter Boyle]

I didn't have to because I had seen the original when I was about 12 years old in an era before television where there was a movie in downtown Philadelphia that used to show old movies. And a friend of mine and I went down to see the original Frankenstein and it scared me and it made such a strong impression on me that I really didn't have to go back and do research because I patterned my performance on Karloff and made, you know, and did it a certain way. And I wanted to make it like there was somebody inside the monster.

[Terry Gross]

Did you remember the monster's grunts? Which of course you had to do.

[Peter Boyle]

Yes, of course, yes.

[Terry Gross]

The makeup is actually very funny for the film because you could see where the makeup is.

[Peter Boyle]

Well, you know, Young Frankenstein really sort of spoofed the early Frankenstein movies, which were actually the first, among the first sound movies ever made. They were made in 1931. And the lighting and the makeup was very much in the style of the silent movies. It hadn't gotten that sophisticated. So. So some of the makeup was. You were aware that it was makeup that that was somewhat intentional.

[Terry Gross]

One of the highlights, I think, of Young Frankenstein is when Gene wilder, who plays Dr. Frankenstein the scientist, is showing off you, his monster, his creation to a big audience of scientists. And then you, as he's showing you off, you do a duet with him of putting on the Ritz.

[Peter Boyle]

Yes.

[Terry Gross]

And in full top hat, white tie.

[Peter Boyle]

And tails, and seven, you know, and shoes that are elevated, eight have soles that are Eight inches thick, you know, because, you know, that's the part I remember. And I had to tap dance in those.

[Gene Wilder]

If you're blue and you don't know where to go to, why don't you go where fashion sits?

[David Biancolli]

Harry Gross spoke with Peter Boyle in 1988. He died in 2006. And now, another of that film's scene, stealing supporting players. Cloris Leachman, who had won an Oscar years earlier for her supporting dramatic work on the Last Picture Show. She played Frau Blucher, a longtime resident of the Transylvania castle. A woman so scary, horses would react in fear whenever they heard her name.

[Supporting Actor Reading Script Lines]

Steady.

[David Biancolli]

How do you do?

[Gene Wilder]

I am Dr. Frankenstein. This is my assistant, Inge. May I present Frau Blucher. I wonder what's got into them.

[Actor Reading Script Lines]

Your rooms have been prepared, Herr Doctor. If you will follow me.

[Gene Wilder]

Igor, would you bring the bags as soon as you're finished, please? Yes, master. After you, Frau Blucher.

[David Biancolli]

Terry Gross spoke with Cloris Leachman in 2009.

[Terry Gross]

You've made, what, two or three movies with Mel Brooks? The first was Young Frankenstein, in which you played Frau Blucher. I want to play a scene from this, just to set it up. Gene Wilder plays Dr. Frederick Frankenstein.

[Actor Reading Script Lines]

Who is Frankenstein.

[Terry Gross]

Frankenstein.

[Actor Reading Script Lines]

Frankenstein. Eigor.

[Terry Gross]

And he's the grandson of the famous mad scientist who created the monster.

[Actor Reading Script Lines]

And then he was my boyfriend.

[Terry Gross]

Then he learns he's inherited the Frankenstein estate, so he goes to the mansion in Transylvania. And your character, Frau Blucher, is one of the servants there. And she was in love with the mad scientist. And in this scene, Gene wilder, the young Dr. Frankenstein, goes to the lab.

[Actor Reading Script Lines]

Frankenstein with his two assistants, where he.

[Terry Gross]

Finds you releasing the monster from his restraints. Here's the scene.

[Gene Wilder]

Frau Blucher. Stop. Don't come closer. What are you doing? I'm going to set him free.

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No.

[Gene Wilder]

No, you mustn't.

[NPR Sponsor Announcer]

Yes.

[Gene Wilder]

Are you insane? He'll kill you. No, he won't.

[Actor Reading Script Lines]

Not this one.

[Gene Wilder]

He is as gentle as a lamb. Stand back. Stand back. For the love of God. He has a rotten brain.

[Supporting Actor Reading Script Lines]

It's not rotten.

[Gene Wilder]

It's a good brain. It's rotten, I tell you. Rotten. Ixnay on the otten ray.

[Actor Reading Script Lines]

I'm not afraid.

[Gene Wilder]

I know what he likes. That music.

[Supporting Actor Reading Script Lines]

Yes.

[Gene Wilder]

It's in your blood. It's in the blood of all Frankensteins. It erases the soul when words are useless.

[Actor Reading Script Lines]

Your grandfather used to play it to.

[Gene Wilder]

The creature he was making. And it was you all the time.

[NPR Sponsor Announcer]

Yes.

[Gene Wilder]

You played that music in the middle of the night? Yes. To get Us into the laboratory. Yes. That was your cigar smoldering in the ashtray. Yes. And it was you who left my grandfather's for me to find.

[David Biancolli]

Yes.

[Gene Wilder]

So that I would.

[Actor Reading Script Lines]

Yes.

[Gene Wilder]

Then you and Victor were. Yes, yes.

[Supporting Actor Reading Script Lines]

Say it.

[Gene Wilder]

Heavos, my boyfriend.

[Terry Gross]

That's my guest, Cloris Leachman, with Gene Wilder.

[Actor Reading Script Lines]

Can you believe it's the same one who played on Raymond? I love Raymond.

[Terry Gross]

Oh, Peter Boyle, who plays the monster. Yeah.

[Actor Reading Script Lines]

Isn't it remarkable to be the same person who's doing those very divergent roles? Oh, yeah.

[Terry Gross]

He was a great actor. He was a great actor. Well, how did you figure out how to play Frau Brucher?

[Actor Reading Script Lines]

I didn't know. I had a wonderful hairdo by Mary, the head of the hair department, and a 20th. And a wonderful costume they made. It fit me perfectly, and it was wonderfully designed. And that's all I knew. And I was made up. Now I go on the set and I don't have any idea how to be Frau Blucher or have any German accent. I'd never done one before. So all the time when they were shooting, I kept saying, do you know a German accent? Hello, Excuse me, Do you know a German accent to everybody? And about three people there thought maybe they didn't know for sure. They tried. And I think one of them was Mel Brooks mother. I think she helped me the most.

[Terry Gross]

Was she from Germany?

[Actor Reading Script Lines]

I don't know anything. When I first came out the door and I say, I am Fraublucher, and I think it's said with such measurement, I was so careful to try to do it right. That's why it's so slow. Otherwise I'd say, I am Frau Blucher. But I said, I am Frau Blucher.

[Terry Gross]

The running gag in Young Frankenstein is whenever anybody says Frau Blucher, the horse is Winnie.

[Actor Reading Script Lines]

Mel told me a few years ago that Blucher meant glue. I'm not sure that's true, but it sure is funny.

[Terry Gross]

So it's like they're threatening the horses with glue factory. So what did you learn about comedy.

[Actor Reading Script Lines]

Working with Mel Brooks?

[Gene Wilder]

Hmm.

[Actor Reading Script Lines]

I'll tell you one thing. I was going up the steps with Jean and the other two. Remember in the castle, I'm going to show them around, and I had a candelabra with the candles not lit, and I turn, I say, stay close to the candles. The staircase can be treacherous. And then Mel came up to me, climbed up the steps and whispered in my ear, and it was a line reading, and here it is. Stay close to the candles. The staircase can be treacherous, which means we've already lost a couple of people.

[David Biancolli]

Cloris Leachman speaking to Terry Gross in 2009. She died in 2021. Coming up to complete our Halloween Day tribute, the director and co writer of Young Frankenstein, Mel Brooks. This is FRESH air.

[Gene Wilder]

I'm Ira Glass. On this American Life, we tell real life stories, really good ones.

[Supporting Actor Reading Script Lines]

My mother said, I'm sorry that you weren't here because Father Sager was here visiting and he found a very nice orphanage for you. And I said, but I'm not an orphan, Ma.

[Gene Wilder]

Surprising stories in your podcast, Feed this American Life.

[NPR Sponsor Announcer]

Hey, I'm Daoud Tyler Amin.

[Supporting Actor Reading Script Lines]

And I'm Ann Powers.

[David Biancolli]

We are an editor and a critic at NPR Music, and we're also friends who love digging into music histories and thinking about how songs can change over time.

[Terry Garr]

And we're doing that on a new.

[Supporting Actor Reading Script Lines]

Show we're totally nerding out about the.

[Terry Garr]

Songs that just stick with us and why.

[David Biancolli]

Find our first episode in the All Songs considered feed on October 23rd.

[Actor Reading Script Lines]

On.

[Peter Boyle]

The Throughline podcast from NPR, the story.

[Supporting Actor Reading Script Lines]

Of the undersea cables that run the Internet.

[Commercial Announcer]

Other historians have compared it to the.

[Supporting Actor Reading Script Lines]

Apollo missions of going to the moon.

[Commercial Announcer]

Listen to Throughline in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[David Biancolli]

By the time he directed and co wrote Young Frankenstein, Mel Brooks already had written for TVs your show of shows and Caesar's Hour, recorded hit comedy records in which Carl Reiner interviewed him as the 2000 year old man, Co created the TV series Get Smart and directed such movies as the producers, the 12 chairs and blazing Saddles. I spoke with mel Brooks in 2013 and offered the opinion that you couldn't create a great parody of something unless you both understood and enjoyed the thing you were lampooning.

[Supporting Actor Reading Script Lines]

I loved westerns as a little kid and I loved horror films and I had fun with them. But I also saluted the glory of the western and the glory of James Wales, you know, Frankenstein and Dracula. And, you know, what does a little kid in Brooklyn have when it comes to art? It ain't much, but it's those movies that you got in and we didn't have any money. I was the baby boy of four, all together with four brothers. My mother lost her husband, I lost my father. I was only two and he died of tuberculosis. And we were really, you know.

[NPR Sponsor Announcer]

Poor.

[Supporting Actor Reading Script Lines]

I mean, dead poor. And I remember my mother gave me three bottles. I wanted desperately to see a Ken Maynard western. I mean desperately. And you get two other pictures with it. You get three pictures for a dime. I hadn't. She gave me nine cents. I mean, she gave me three bottles, which three cents on each deposit bottle at Mr. Sheynus grocery store. I had nine cents. I needed another penny. And I said, mom, I need another penny to get into the movies. I must have been about, you know, seven or eight, I don't know. And she said, I don't have it. So she went, she knocked on Mrs. Miller's door. She said, Mrs. Miller, we don't have any cash in the house. Can I have a penny? So I cherish those movies because they really lifted my spirits and are indelibly engraved in my brain as important steps in my world education.

[David Biancolli]

And what about, say, Alfred Hitchcock, whom you lampooned in High Anxiety? Those would have come a little later for you, but you clearly love those too much.

[Supporting Actor Reading Script Lines]

Like, I always thought, you know, that Alfred Hitchcock was the very best director who ever directed films. And when I was doing, I had the idea for High Anxiety, I wrote him a letter saying, basically, dear Mr. Hitchcock, you know, I do genre parodies. And I. In my estimation, you are a genre and that you're just amazing. And I would like to do a movie dedicated to you and based on your style and your work. And he said. He called me and he said, I love Blazing Saddles. I think you're a very talented guy. And I come to my office, I came to his office at Universal, and he told me to come back every Friday at a quarter to 12, because at 12:30 we would eat, so 45 minutes of work. And he would work on my script, on High Anxiety with me. And he said, well, don't leave out this and don't leave out that. He said, what are you going to do about the birds? I said, well, gee, at the moment I haven't included. And he said, well, why don't you have them attack you with their ref. You know, refuge with their duty? He said, it's going to be funny. I said, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Hitchcock. So he gave me the Birds and he gave me a couple of others. He gave me one joke I couldn't use. He's a very, very interesting writer.

[David Biancolli]

What was the joke that you couldn't use?

[Supporting Actor Reading Script Lines]

Well, I couldn't use it because, I mean, it didn't. It wasn't part of his work. I loved him. He was colorful, he was sweet, and he saw the rough cut of High Anxiety and he got up and wiggled by me, never said a word. I said, oh, my God, it's, ah, I'm Ruined. It's terrible. And he left. And 24 hours later, a beautiful wooden box arrives, placed on my desk. It is six magnums of Chateau Aubrion 1961, priceless, maybe the greatest wine ever, ever made, including Rothschild or any other. And with a little note saying, have no anxiety over high anxiety. It's wonderful. Love, Hitch.

[David Biancolli]

Now, you seem to have a great track record directing and writing for women. I mean, not only Madeline Kahn, Cloris Leachman, Terry Garr, getting really wonderful comic performances from these women. What was your method?

[Supporting Actor Reading Script Lines]

Well, you know, it was respecting their ability to deliver comedy as well as, and sometimes a lot better than, male comedians. And they knew that I respected their ability and their talent, and they gave all because of it. And they weren't ashamed or afraid to reveal maybe unconscious aspects of their comedy talent, which may have been a little off color, a little crazy or a little bizarre that they wouldn't show anybody. But they'd show it to me because they knew I respected, you know, the full range of their gifts.

[David Biancolli]

Young Frankenstein came out the same year as Blazing Saddles. The standout scene has Gene Wilder as the scientist and Peter Boyle as the creature, singing, putting on the Ritz. And I know that that was not your idea, that was co writer Gene Wilder's.

[Supporting Actor Reading Script Lines]

Yes.

[David Biancolli]

So how long did it take before you figured out he was right? And then I have a question about what sort of direction you gave to Peter Boyle for that number, especially his singing.

[Supporting Actor Reading Script Lines]

Well, actually, you know, when Gene first brought it up to show the wizardry of this, you know, Dr. Frankenstein coming up with this incredible creature reanimating dead tissue, and not only does it move, does it walk and talk, but it also dazzles you with song and dance, you know. So I said, I think we're tearing it, Gene. I think, you know, we're going too far. We want some of the verisimilitudinous quality that was in the, you know, in the original James Whale movie, you know, which was serious and scary. And I. I don't want to lose the seriousness and the scariness of it just for silly comedy, you know, just for taking comedy too far. And he kept pushing. He said, no, no, it will show, demonstrate the doctor's abilities to teach the monster. And finally kept bugging me. And I said, look, okay, I'm going to shoot it, and I'm going to put it aside and we'll see whether or not it's useful in the main body of the picture, okay? He said, okay. That's all I ask. Just shoot it. And look at it later when you're putting it together. And I shot it and I still was afraid of it. And then when I saw it later with all the film that we had collected, I said, gee, it may be the best thing in the film. And I called Gene and I said you're absolutely right all the time. And I'm glad we're it's in totally and I'm looking on the cutting room floor for any outtakes, you know.

[David Biancolli]

And what, what direction did you give to Peter Boyle? Like how he and was puttin on the Ritz. Always the first song choice?

[Supporting Actor Reading Script Lines]

Yes, always. Garyving Berlin and I said, I said peter, sing it from your heart. Sing it like it's a cry of love and freedom and everything you can think of that's good. And he did.

[David Biancolli]

Mel Brooks spoke with me in 2013. Mel Brooks was born in 1926 and he still got projects in pre production including two planned films, Spaceballs 2 and Very Young Frankenstein. Happy Halloween, Mel. In the new movie Begonia, which is now playing in theaters, Emma Stone stars as a high powered CEO who gets kidnapped by a low ranking employee played by Jesse Plemons who believes she's an alien from outer space. It's the latest dark comedy from the filmmaker Yorgos Lanthimos, who previously directed Stone and Plemons in last year's Kinds of Kindness. Our film critic Justin Chang has this review of Begonia.

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As an admirer of the Greek director Yorgos Lanthimos, it gave me no pleasure to report that his 2024 film Kinds of Kindness was all kinds of lousy. A trio of stories about human cruelty, each one more wearying than the last. You couldn't fault the actors though, not Emma Stone, a brilliant Lanthimos regular who won an Oscar for her role in his film Poor Things and not Jesse Plemons, a versatile addition to the director's regular company. Now Stone and Plemons have reunited in Lanthimos wickedly funny new psychological thriller Begonia, which at times plays like a discarded fourth story from Kinds of Kindness that was expanded into its own feature. Begonia is actually a remake of another film, Tang Joon Hwan's low budget thriller from 2003, Save the Green Planet, which is now regarded by many as one of the most significant Korean movies of this century. Although Begonia is a bigger, more lavish production than Save the Green Planet, it does preserve many of the same plot details. Jesse Plemons plays Teddy, a part time beekeeper who also works in a warehouse a owned by a major corporation that makes drugs and pesticides. He blames the company and its CEO, Michelle Fuller. That's Emma Stone, girlbossing to the max for their role in endangering bee colonies around the world. But Teddy's rage goes further. He claims that Michelle is an alien from the Andromeda galaxy bent on destroying planet Earth. And so, with the help of his cousin Don, played by Aiden Dalbus, Teddy ambushes Michelle outside her home and knocks her out. When she comes to, she's tied up in the basement of Teddy's farmhouse and shaved bald for reasons that only her captor can explain.

[Gene Wilder]

Where is my hair?

[David Biancolli]

Your hair has been destroyed.

[Gene Wilder]

You shaved off my hair? Yes, we've shaved off your hair. Why have you shaved off my hair?

[David Biancolli]

To prevent you from contacting your ship.

[Gene Wilder]

My ship? Your ship?

[Supporting Actor Reading Script Lines]

What ship?

[David Biancolli]

Your mother ship.

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Teddy demands that Michelle take him and dawn to her leader. Michelle's response is startlingly cool and methodical. Rather than screaming or pleading for her life, she calmly explains that she isn't an alien and that Teddy and Don would be wise to let her go. Even when she's incapacitated, she seems unnervingly in control of the situation. And you begin to wonder fairly early on if Michelle really is from Andromeda. Weirdly, the answer almost doesn't matter, because there's always been something otherworldly about the way Lanthimos regards his characters. Watching one of his movies, like Dogtooth or the Killing of a sacred deer, is sort of like watching a strange behavioral experiment conducted by an extraterrestrial being. Even so, Begonia doesn't have the staccato rhythms and bizarre non sequiturs of most Lanthimos movies. It was written by Will Tracy, a co writer on the 2022 horror satire the Menu, and the dialogue has a lucidity that sucks you in. Teddy strains to be polite with Michelle at first, but he starts to unravel as her barbed, insinuating words get under his skin. The more Michelle talks, the more she backs Teddy into a corner, exposing layers of grief, trauma, bitterness, and disillusionment, especially concerning politics. Teddy has been all over the ideological spectrum, all right, leftist Marxist, but now shuns all labels, dismissing them as performative garbage. Michelle seems to share his cynicism. Or maybe she's just saying that to mess with him. In the same way that Lanthimos is messing with us. Scene by scene, Begonia keeps us guessing. Which of these two characters should we be more afraid of? Is Teddy just another crackpot conspiracy theorist? Or might he be onto something Plemons tense, heartbreaking performance allows for both possibilities, and his psychological duet with Stone is riveting to watch. There are also haunting grace notes from newcomer Aiden Delbis, who is autistic and is playing an autistic person dawn, the one character here who seems completely guileless. Like many Lanthimos movies, Begonia teems with startling tonal shifts and sudden eruptions of violence. Yet it also feels like a more accessible object than he's made before, more of a clever product, perhaps, than a sui generis vision. It's a remake, after all, and a fairly faithful one at that. Where it differs most from its source material is in the way it looks. Where Save the Green Planet felt grotty and claustrophobic. Begonia, shot by the gifted cinematographer Robbie Ryan, is almost distractingly gorgeous. The final sequence in particular has a spooky apocalyptic grandeur that left me in a state of near awe. Lanthimos may be something of an arthouse prankster, but even in his impish gaze, our endangered planet can still be a thing of beauty.

[David Biancolli]

Justin Chang is a film critic at the New Yorker. On Monday's show, Richard Linklater, who made the films Slacker, Dazed and Confused, the Before Trilogy and Boyhood, talks about his two new films. Blue Moon is about lyricist Lorenz Hart. Nouvelle Vogue is an homage to director Jean Luc Goetard and the making of his 1960 revolutionary French New Wave film Breathless. Join us Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Sam Brigger is our managing producer. Our senior producer today is Roberta Shorrock. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham, with additional engineering support by Joyce Lieberman, Julian Herzfeld and Deanna Martinez. For Terry Gross and Tanya Moseley, I'm David Biancooli.

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[Gene Wilder]

Health care costs tied to the government.

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Shutdown Listen every afternoon to consider this on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.