Summary of Fresh Air Episode: "The Nihilistic War In Sudan"

Fresh Air hosted by NPR delves deep into the harrowing civil conflict in Sudan through the lens of veteran journalist Anne Applebaum. In the episode titled "The Nihilistic War In Sudan," released on August 6, 2025, Applebaum shares insights from her extensive reporting trips to the war-torn nation. This summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and conclusions drawn during the interview.

Introduction to Anne Applebaum and Her Work

Anne Applebaum, a renowned journalist and staff writer for The Atlantic, is the focal guest of this episode. With a distinguished career that includes 15 years as a columnist for the Washington Post and authoring several influential books, Applebaum brings a wealth of knowledge on international conflicts. Her latest cover story, titled "This Is What the End of the Liberal World Order Looks Like," examines the consequences of the deteriorating global order through the lens of Sudan's civil war.

Applebaum explains her motivation:
"I wanted to look at it from a completely different angle... what does the withdrawal of the United States look like from there?" (02:11)

Overview of the Sudanese Conflict

The civil war in Sudan, which erupted in 2023, pits the national Sudanese army against the paramilitary Rapid Support Forces (RSF). Applebaum's reporting focuses on the devastating outcomes of this conflict, including mass casualties, widespread displacement, and severe humanitarian crises.

Applebaum describes the nature of the war:
"It's very nihilistic. It's very transactional. It's really what the world looks like when everybody is nihilistic, when everybody is out for themselves..." (12:24)

On-Ground Experiences: Bombing of Civilian Areas

During her visits, Applebaum witnessed firsthand the brutality inflicted upon civilians. While staying in Omdurman, near the capital Khartoum, she recounts how the RSF employed artillery against civilian neighborhoods as a retaliatory tactic when losing ground to the Sudanese army.

Applebaum shares a poignant observation:
"We could hear them bombing civilian neighborhoods at night... It almost seemed as if the RSF were taking revenge on the Sudanese... and it's really hard for people to take." (05:18)

Human Impact: Refugees and Displacement

The conflict has displaced approximately 14 million people, surpassing the numbers in Ukraine and Gaza combined. Applebaum details the dire conditions in refugee camps and the internal displacement within Sudan, highlighting the lack of international support exacerbated by the global withdrawal from active intervention.

Applebaum reflects on the refugee experience:
"It was simply people who had gathered there for a sense of SAF because their homes had been burned down... and that feeling of desolation, people being really truly abandoned, is something I'd never seen before." (09:47)

Role of the International Community: Withdrawal and Ineffectiveness

A central theme of Applebaum's story is the retreat of the international community. She criticizes the Trump administration's dismantling of the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) and the broader decline of international institutions like the United Nations.

Applebaum asserts:
"The scale of destruction is vast... this is all coming at a moment when the international aid community and the international medical community are at their lowest ebb in recent history." (19:05)

Breakdown of the Two Principal Forces

Applebaum elucidates the motivations behind the conflict, emphasizing that it transcends ideological battles and is rooted in power struggles and economic gains, particularly control over vital resources like gold mines.

Applebaum explains:
"The fight between these two groups is over power and money... It's a war for territory... It's almost a postmodern war... it's about a single ideology." (12:24, 17:58)

Influence of Regional Powers

Beyond the national factions, regional powers such as the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey, Egypt, and Iran have vested interests in Sudan. Their involvement, often driven by economic gains and geopolitical strategies, complicates the conflict and hinders resolution efforts.

Applebaum comments on foreign involvement:
"Between Saudi Arabia and UAE, which are normally pretty aligned... are on opposite sides in Sudan." (30:21)

The End of the Liberal World Order

Applebaum's narrative ties the Sudanese conflict to the broader decline of the liberal world order. She posits that the erosion of international norms and institutions has facilitated such conflicts, where national interests overshadow global stability and human rights.

Applebaum concludes:
"Greed, nihilism and transactionalism are reshaping the politics of the rich world... they are replaced by nothing." (35:23)

Implications for International Aid and USAID

The shutdown of USAID under the Trump administration significantly impacted aid delivery in Sudan. Applebaum highlights the cascading failures in the aid infrastructure, leading to insufficient support for refugees and exacerbating the humanitarian crisis.

Applebaum illustrates the impact:
"Soup kitchens basically, that weren't able to feed people as often as they had a month earlier... people are going to starve and die because of Elon Musk's decision." (25:44)

Comparison to Ukraine and the Broader Global Context

The discussion also touches on Ukraine, drawing parallels between the two nations' struggles amidst the waning liberal world order. Applebaum emphasizes the resilience of the Ukrainian people and the critical role of sustained international support in ensuring their sovereignty against Russian aggression.

Applebaum reflects on Ukraine:
"Ukraine has just reinvented drone warfare... Can Ukraine emerge as a sovereign, independent state... Yes, I do think that's possible." (46:16)

Conclusion and Final Reflections

Applebaum's final thoughts underscore the interconnectedness of global conflicts and the imperative for a resilient international framework to prevent further humanitarian disasters. Her poignant closing remarks serve as a somber reminder of the consequences of global disengagement.

Applebaum shares:
"Those universes are connected, and the same forces that have destroyed Sudan are coming for other countries, too... they are replaced by nothing." (35:23)

Key Takeaways

• Nihilistic Nature of the Conflict: The Sudanese civil war is driven by self-interest, economic gains, and power struggles rather than ideological differences, leading to rampant violence and humanitarian crises.

• Withdrawal of International Support: The reduction and elimination of international aid, particularly by the U.S., have exacerbated the plight of Sudanese civilians, highlighting the fragility of global intervention mechanisms.

• Complex Regional Dynamics: The involvement of multiple regional powers with conflicting interests complicates the conflict, making resolution efforts more challenging.

• Erosion of the Liberal World Order: The decline of international institutions and norms has paved the way for increased conflicts and the rise of authoritarianism, as exemplified by the situations in Sudan and Ukraine.

• Human Resilience and International Responsibility: Despite immense adversity, the resilience of affected populations remains a beacon of hope, but sustained and meaningful international support is crucial to achieving lasting peace and stability.

This episode of Fresh Air provides a comprehensive and deeply human perspective on the Sudanese conflict, illustrating the broader implications of global political shifts and the urgent need for reinvigorated international cooperation to address such crises.