Fresh Air Podcast Summary

Title: Tilda Swinton Thinks About Her Death
Host: Terry Gross
Guest: Tilda Swinton
Release Date: January 8, 2025
Episode Duration: Approximately 45 minutes

Introduction to the Episode

In this compelling episode of NPR's Fresh Air, host Terry Gross engages in an intimate conversation with acclaimed actress Tilda Swinton. The discussion centers around Swinton's latest film, The Room Next Door, and delves deeply into themes of mortality, personal loss, and the artistic process.

Discussion of The Room Next Door

[00:33] Terry Gross:
Terry introduces Tilda Swinton's new film, The Room Next Door, describing it as a poignant exploration of suffering, death, and choice. The film features Swinton as Martha, a war correspondent facing terminal cancer who decides to end her life on her own terms. Gross highlights the film's emotional depth, poetic dialogue, and the striking visual contrast between Swinton's ethereal presence and the vibrant world around her.

Key Points:

• The Room Next Door is directed by Pedro Almodóvar, marking his first English-language feature.
• The film portrays Martha's journey towards euthanasia, emphasizing her desire for a peaceful and dignified end.
• The relationship between Martha and her friend Ingrid (played by Julianne Moore) forms the emotional core of the narrative.

Notable Quote:

[03:20] Martha: "I will not go out in mortifying anguish. I've gotten hold of a euthanasia pill. Don't ask me how. On the dark web, you can find almost anything."

Tilda Swinton's Personal Connection to the Theme of Death

[04:35] Terry Gross:
Gross inquires about Swinton's personal experiences with loss, including the deaths of her parents and close friends like Derek Jarman. She reflects on how these experiences inform her portrayal of Martha and the film's exploration of mortality.

Key Points:

• Swinton finds the film deeply personal, resonating with her 15 years of supporting and witnessing loved ones' decline.
• She emphasizes the importance of bearing witness to others' suffering, a concept central to both her life and Almodóvar's work.
• The film's vivid colors juxtaposed with Swinton's ghostly appearance symbolize the contrast between life and death.

Notable Quote:

[05:46] Tilda Swinton: "It's a great opportunity to place that Witness up on a big screen for people and with a kind of clear-eyedness, which I always find emblematic of Almodóvar's work."

Exploring the Artistic Process and Personal Roles

[06:27] Terry Gross:
Gross explores Swinton's transition from being a witness to portraying someone who is choosing to end her life. Swinton discusses the transformative experience of embodying Martha.

Key Points:

• Portraying Martha allowed Swinton to empathize more deeply with those she has supported through their final moments.
• She describes the role as both challenging and liberating, providing a new perspective on her previous experiences as a caregiver.
• Swinton emphasizes that the character's choice is about asserting control and finding peace.

Notable Quote:

[06:44] Tilda Swinton: "This was a profound blessing, Terry, because... it was a very interesting project and it did bear out. I have to say, there is something..."

Tilda Swinton’s Experience with Long Covid

[12:37] Terry Gross:
The conversation shifts to Swinton's personal health struggles, specifically her battle with Long Covid. She shares how the illness impacted her cognitive functions and work.

Key Points:

• Swinton contracted Covid-19 multiple times, with the fourth instance leading to severe cognitive impairments.
• She compares the experience to early-onset Alzheimer's, highlighting the fear and uncertainty it brought.
• Despite the challenges, Swinton managed to continue her acting career, albeit with difficulty remembering lines and dialogues.

Notable Quote:

[13:01] Tilda Swinton: "I could not remember anything. And that was very frightening... it was very sobering."

Philosophical Reflections on Death and Afterlife

[15:18] Terry Gross:
Gross probes into Swinton's thoughts on death and the transition after life, shaped by her experiences with loss and her role in The Room Next Door.

Key Points:

• Swinton recounts her relationship with Derek Jarman, who openly faced his AIDS diagnosis, influencing her understanding of mortality.
• She discusses the concept of being a "witness" to someone's end, emphasizing the delicate balance between presence and acceptance.
• The actress reflects on the grace and powerlessness inherent in witnessing death, both in her personal life and on screen.

Notable Quote:

[16:16] Tilda Swinton: "He was a public figure who stepped right into that zone... and owns it, and said, yes, I am HIV positive..."

Caring for Her Parents and Family Dynamics

[21:29] Terry Gross:
The discussion moves to Swinton's familial relationships, particularly her role in caring for her hospitalized mother and later supporting her father after her mother's passing.

Key Points:

• Swinton describes the profound experience of caring for her mother during her final weeks, managing medical decisions and providing comfort.
• She highlights the transformation in her relationship with her father after her mother's death, allowing him to show vulnerability.
• These caregiving experiences have deepened Swinton's understanding of empathy and support, themes echoed in her film work.

Notable Quote:

[22:16] Tilda Swinton: "Such an amazing thing. I treasure it now... He was able to be as tender and as vulnerable..."

The Intersection of Clothing, Identity, and Androgyny

[29:33] Terry Gross:
Gross explores Swinton's interest in clothing and its relation to her identity, drawing parallels between military uniforms and her fluid, boundaryless style.

Key Points:

• Swinton discusses how her family's military background influenced her fascination with uniforms and structured attire.
• She emphasizes the importance of clothing as a form of self-expression and identity choice, advocating for boundaryless fashion.
• The actress connects her androgynous style to broader themes of classlessness and endless possibility, rejecting societal limitations.

Notable Quote:

[30:13] Tilda Swinton: "I encourage everybody to wear both by the way, which is why it's so important for people to understand that clothes are just choices..."

Queer Identity and Personal Relationships

[34:10] Terry Gross:
Swinton elaborates on her identification as queer, explaining its origins and significance beyond the traditional LGBTQ spectrum.

Key Points:

• She defines "queer" as an attitude of self-determination and a way of living distinct from societal norms.
• Swinton shares her long-term relationships, emphasizing the fluidity and authenticity inherent in her connections.
• The actress expresses pride in being a "queer fish," celebrating diversity and self-expression.

Notable Quote:

[34:23] Tilda Swinton: "I've been in very happy and loving relationships with men... We're all queer. We're all queer fish."

Reflections on Acting in Mainstream vs. Avant-Garde Films

[37:04] Terry Gross:
Gross contrasts Swinton's roles in avant-garde films with her work in mainstream Hollywood productions like Michael Clayton.

Key Points:

• Swinton appreciates mainstream roles that honor classic Hollywood storytelling, finding joy in scripts that resonate with timeless cinematic qualities.
• She highlights the craftsmanship of industry veterans like Tony Gilroy, aligning mainstream work with her artistic values.
• The actress views her diverse filmography as a bridge between independent artistry and broader cinematic expression.

Notable Quote:

[37:27] Tilda Swinton: "Tony Gilroy is a master... It continues to be a golden classic Hollywood film."

The Role of Music in The Room Next Door

[38:05] Terry Gross:
The conversation returns to The Room Next Door, focusing on the film's musical score by Alberto Iglesias and its impact on the storytelling.

Key Points:

• Swinton praises Alberto Iglesias' composition, describing it as a perfect complement to Almodóvar's poetic narrative.
• She explains how the cello and strings convey the film's emotional undertones, balancing intrigue and lightness.
• The music is likened to a slow tango, symbolizing the partnership and deep friendship between the main characters.

Notable Quote:

[42:53] Tilda Swinton: "It is a tango... It's about a partnership. It's about fellowship and particularly about friendship between women."

Conclusion and Final Reflections

As the episode draws to a close, Swinton expresses her gratitude for the opportunity to portray such a profound character and thanks Terry Gross for the engaging conversation. The discussion leaves listeners with a deepened understanding of Swinton's artistic vision and personal philosophies surrounding life, death, and identity.

Final Notable Quote:

[44:06] Terry Gross: "Tilda Swinton, it's just been great to talk with you. Thank you so much and thank you for making this movie."

This episode of Fresh Air offers a deep and nuanced exploration of Tilda Swinton's latest work and personal experiences, framed by her reflections on mortality, identity, and the human condition. Through candid dialogue and insightful anecdotes, listeners gain a comprehensive view of Swinton's artistry and the profound themes that drive her performances.