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- [00:02]
A
Welcome to from the Front Porch, a conversational podcast about books, small business, and life in the South. There are always two stories taking place at once, the narrative inside the play and the narrative around it. Wait, it's cutting off. Starting over. There are always two stories taking place at the narrative inside the play and the narrative around it, and the boundary between the two is more porous than you might think. That is both the danger and the excitement of the performance. Katie Kitamura Audition Annie I'm Annie Jones, owner of the Bookshelf, an independent bookstore in Beautiful downtown Thomasville, Georgia, and this week I'm joined by my friend Hunter McClendon to talk about our favorite books of 2025. If you love hearing from Hunter, and who doesn't, you might consider joining from the Front Porch on Patreon in 2026. There, Hunter and I will be sharing our monthly recaps of our conquering of the complete stories by Flannery o'. Connor. Episodes will air on the last Friday of each month beginning in January, which means you've got plenty of time to join or to joel friends and family into joining us too. Shop mom and Shop dad and several Bookshelf team members will be following along in 2026. To join Patreon, just visit patreon.com from the FrontPorch Three tiers are available. The $5 a month tier will give you access to all of our Conqueror classic episodes, and the $20 a month tier will give you ad free episodes of from the Front Porch, plus a deep dive into some of Flannery o' Connor's other works. We hope you'll join us next year. Now back to the task at hand. Hi Hunter, Hello. Back in July, which I think we recorded it maybe even earlier than that, but back in July, Hunter and I discussed our favorite books of the year so far. You can listen to that episode, episode 536 for our full conversation. But now we are back end of year to see how our mid year picks held up. Hunter first of all, can I ask, now that we're nearing the end of the year, how your reading year? Let's not discuss our actual years. Let's just talk about how did our reading years stack up?
- [02:28]
B
You know it's really funny because like there were like individual months. Here's the thing. I'll be honest, sometimes when you're depressee you don't really think about how good books are. But in my like high moments I'm like, wow, literature has just been so good.
- [02:42]
A
This year isn't it amazing how our personal. And this is just a lesson that authors should never take it personally. I just don't think authors should take reviews too personally because so much is dependent upon how we, the reader are feeling. Like how many times I have rated or ranked a book a certain way because of who I was while I was reading it. I think that is probably why my feelings about 2025 are eh. And I think that's just because. Listen. And I'm gonna talk about some really good books today. I mean, my 10 favorite of. But when I look back at the reading year, I think I spent a lot of 2025 kind of overwhelmed and like muddling through. And that is a little bit what my reading life felt like too. Where I know there were some really great books this year. I'm confident of it. I love the books on my list. But it wasn't like 2024 where I read a lot of good books. But like James to me was the best book of the year. Like, and nobody really debated it. Everybody, everybody kind of agreed on that one. Which that felt relatively un. Where we all were. It was a consensus that James was The book of 2020. 2024. It's a little harder, I think, for me to pick the book of 2025. I don't know if you found it to be that way.
- [04:01]
B
I mean, my book of 2025 was my book of 2025 when I read it back in October of 2024. Because I got an arc for the people who weren't aware because I'm a celebrity. Flex, Flex. But yeah, my number one has been. Actually, my number one is basically been close to the number one the whole time. Although my number one and my number two are so tight together that that has been my biggest struggle.
- [04:29]
A
Okay, well, I'm excited to talk about it. Let's remind people so they don't necessarily have to go back and listen, I'm gonna just run through my top 10 books as of July 2025 and then you can do yours. So I'll go, I guess in reverse order. So number 10, play World by Adam Ross, which I still think you would like, by the way. Lucky Night by Eliza Kennedy. The Road to Tender Hearts by Annie Hartnett. Everything Is Tuberculosis by John Green, Memorial Days by Geraldine Brooks. Number five, Show Don't Tell by Curtis Sittenfeld. Number four, Things in Nature Merely Grow by Yuyun Lee. Number three, the Correspondent by Virginia Evans, Flashlight by Susan Choi and One Tilt by Emma Patty. What were your top 10?
- [05:16]
B
My top 10 number 10 was Exit Zero by Marie Helene Bertino. Number nine was Perfection by Vincenzo La Triniso. I think number eight was the Road to Tender Hearts by Annie Hartnett. Number seven was Open Heaven by Sean Hewitt. Number six was the Wilderness by Angela Flournoy. Number five was Among Friends by Hal Ebbott. Number four was Alligator Tears by Edgar Gomez. Number three was Mothers and Sons by Adam Hayslett. Number two was Ordinary Time by you. And number one was Audition by Katie Kitamura.
- [05:47]
A
I do think, even just looking at the quotes from Audition, that is a book that I wish I had read this year. And I'll be honest, my November reading life always is terrible. I look back at the years, and that is almost universally true across the years. November, December are just kind of a wash for me. But are there any books that you missed this year that you wish you hadn't or. I'm gonna give you an example for me. Is there a book that was unsung? Like, it didn't make it into my top 10, but I think the Leila Motley book, the Girls who Grew Big was an unsung book that should have gotten more praise. There was a book called We Love to Run that I thought was beautiful. I don't understand why it didn't get more buzz. So were there any books like that that were kind of unsung for you or books that you missed that you wish you'd read?
- [06:31]
B
So I definitely think there's this book called Ravishing by, I believe it's Ishani Surya. It's like a. Okay, no one else is getting this but me. But, like, it reminds me of one of the plot lines of the 2004 Catwoman with Halle Berry. But it's like in a near dystopia where people can. Like, this cream is altering people's faces, but it's also having really harmful side effects.
- [06:54]
A
What's the title again?
- [06:56]
B
Ravishing.
- [06:57]
A
Ravishing. Okay.
- [06:58]
B
Yeah, I thought it was great. Did you read Culpability by Bruce Hulsinger?
- [07:02]
A
No. Should I have?
- [07:03]
B
Listen, it's very entertaining.
- [07:05]
A
Okay. That's what I heard.
- [07:07]
B
Yeah. Like, it's not, like, great, but it is, like, it's good, but it's very entertaining. Oh, another book that I don't think a lot of people are going to read, even though it was a National Book Award Translated book was Sad Tiger. I cannot pronounce the author's name, but it's N E I G E S I N, N O. But it's a memoir about a woman who was sexually Abused by her stepdad and how she. And she's, like, looking at it all through the lens of the different literature that writes about abuse. And it's very interesting, very captivating. So there was that one. I'm trying to think if there was anything else that I loved that didn't really get much. There was, I guess, A Sharp Endless need by Marissa Crane I really liked. I don't think that the Patricia Lockwood book got as much.
- [07:53]
A
I don't think it did either. And I wonder if that's also because it's almost a companion book. And so if you didn't read the other, you get a little. I don't know. I also, the longer I'm in book selling, I mean, in indie bookstores, what sells is what the staff likes, typically. So then it's interesting to kind of take your view wider and to realize, oh, like, that's not what's hitting the national bestseller list or something like that. Like, and sometimes it does. But I think about, and I'll probably talk about this book a little later, but I think about the Correspondent by Virginia Evans, which hit and didn't hit the New York Times bestseller list at all until months later. And I'd like to think that's because of the work of indie bookstores and word of mouth through libraries and things like that. But generally speaking, it really is sometimes about what's in the zeitgeist, what's in the news, and those dang celebrity book clubs. Like, if your book isn't chosen for a celebrity book club, Godspeed to you.
- [08:50]
B
Yeah, that is true.
- [08:53]
A
It's so true. Like, how much of the business is reliant upon. Well, I guess it's celebrity book clubs and then influencers like Bookstagram or Book Influencer. Like, it is shocking the role they.
- [09:04]
B
Play, I do have to say. So there's somebody who I hung out with recently who also met Oprah at an event recently. And again, flex, listen. Yes, I have met Oprah. She did not laugh at my joke, but she did love. She loved how I cried in front of her. And I think that she just eats that up.
- [09:21]
A
Oh, I think she loves it when people cry in front of her. Can I just ask, was her skin flawless and. Or is it just really good makeup?
- [09:29]
B
Luminous. But I also have to say, like, her head is so big.
- [09:35]
A
Like, she's also. I know you are very tall, but she is shorter than I thought.
- [09:41]
B
Oh, she's very tiny. The amount of hair that was on her head was insane. And her head was just so Large. I was like, like, I want to be like, Oprah. What is going on?
- [09:52]
A
But. But also, you would have a critique of Oprah.
- [09:55]
B
Thing is, I love.
- [09:56]
A
Watch out, Hunter's coming for you.
- [09:58]
B
Listen, I'm telling you, if you saw it, you'd be like, that is an abnormally large head. Like, listen, she's. Listen, she's very smart. She's probably got a lot of brain up in there.
- [10:06]
A
That's right. And we. And listen, everybody's got a flaw. We've all got our flaws. Oprah's got it, too.
- [10:11]
B
You know, it's. But she was gorgeous. But. No, but somebody actually, apparently this guy who I was talking to, he said, yeah. He goes, you know, I told her that she needs to get her and her little friend Reese to stop putting all those stickers on the books. And I was like, I mean, and then I was like, well, it helps them sell. And he was like, then make them removable.
- [10:28]
A
And I was like, ok, we'll see in the next year if that changes. We'll know where we can trace it back to.
- [10:35]
B
Yeah. This one person with all of his, like, influence. Yeah.
- [10:38]
A
With all his power. I don't like the stickers any more than anybody does. But again, as a bookseller, and not just as a bookseller at the bookshelf, but, like, when I go out into the world, meaning your Barnes and Nobles, your Walmarts, your targets, you know what's selling books that have got a sticker on them.
- [10:55]
B
Here's the thing. People who are not, like, book snobs. And this is not a dig to anyone. People who are not book snobs. The easiest way for. And if they, if they don't have a lot of reader friends, if they don't really.
- [11:06]
A
That's right.
- [11:07]
B
You know, that is a really great way to be. Like, okay, well, this, like, Oprah has similar tastes to me, so I could just grab the Oprah book. Like, it makes sense.
- [11:13]
A
Right. Like, I trust. Like, there are people who trust Reese Witherspoon, and so they trust. Oh, I'm gonna grab this book. You're exactly right. I. I think, yeah. For those of us who are very enmeshed in the book world, we might find those stickers obnoxious and we might not need them, but people who are outside of the industry. And that is where. That's where guys. That's where a lot of sales come from.
- [11:34]
B
Yeah.
- [11:35]
A
Like, they. They look at those stickers. And those stickers do matter to them. I would also like them to be removable, but it is what it is. Okay. We have a lot of territory to cover. Are you ready?
- [11:46]
B
I am. Redrik Frederick.
- [11:48]
A
I was hoping you would say that, because I really rely on. I really rely on that. And I have caught myself saying it probably. Baby Isaac is one day going to be like, I'm going to say, you ready to go, Redrick Frederick. And I'll be able to tell him Hunter started that. Okay. I'll get us started with my number 10 book. But I'm going to be honest, this is always one of my hardest spots, because to me, it's pretty close on. On what makes the top 10 list. So did you pick. Did you pick a number 10 or do you have a tie anywhere?
- [12:24]
B
Listen, I kept it strictly to 10 books, but it was very hard. Okay, so you're trying to like, huh, huh?
- [12:31]
A
Let me think about this. Okay, well, one is more of an Annie pick, and one is like, I think this was better for the literary world. Which one should I pick?
- [12:43]
B
Pick the one that's like, listen, it's your top ten. So you do. Yeah.
- [12:47]
A
Okay. So my number ten book is Awake by Jen Hatmaker. Have you heard of this book?
- [12:52]
B
No.
- [12:53]
A
Okay. Jen Hatmaker, to me, is relatively niche until now. I think this is the book that kind of broke her into the wider world. But she was very prominent in evangelical culture for a long time. She was married, she was a speaker, and I always thought she was a good writer. This year, she released a book based on the fact. A memoir based on the fact that one night while she was in bed, she woke up next to her husband of, like, almost three decades, I believe, and she heard him talking. He was talking to his mistress at 2am in the same bed as her, which. What a move.
- [13:28]
B
What?
- [13:29]
A
Wild. Wild. So she winds up writing this memoir called Awake, and what I thought easily could have been a tell all, super gossipy kind of book, instead, I think is about midlife and a woman kind of coming to terms with previous life decisions. And now she's. Her whole world has been turned upside down, and where does she kind of go from here? She fell out of grace with a lot of the evangelical world because of her stances on. This is sad sounding, but because of her stances on racism or the LGBTQ community. And so she was kind of shunned from the Christian evangelical world. And so this, to me, was her. Was her offering to a larger audience. She was interviewed in the New York Times. Like, it kind of bubbled up. And for me, part of the reason I paid attention to this One I was familiar with Jen Hatmaker from her previous work, but it released around the same time as the Elizabeth Gilbert book. And it's hard for me to even talk about Awake without referencing the Elizabeth Gilbert book, because for me, as a reader, all the Way to the river felt like a fire hydrant to the face of vulnerability. Maybe some oversharing or, like, it just was a lot. And I like Elizabeth Gilbert. Like, I like her writing. I think she's extremely talented. I don't know if that book was for me, but at the same time, I. Near the same point, I read Awake, and I thought, oh, my gosh, this is her best work. I think it is Gin Hatmaker's best writing. I think it is a really interesting look. Outside of Christianity, though, she does talk a lot about. She kind of goes back in time to her teenage hood. She talks about being raised in purity culture, how that affected who and why she got married. And then she, you know, delves into kind of the aftermath of her marriage falling apart. But what that really meant for her as a woman, like, she didn't know, you know, how to pay the utility bill or, you know, all these things that she kind of had lost in her own identity, too, on a bigger picture scale. Anyway, I think the writing is great. And when I look back, one of my kind of ways that I make my top 10 list is I think, what will I remember from this year? And I do have a distinct memory of reading this book this summer. I read it as an advanced copy, and I remember thinking, oh, this is gonna hit with a lot of people. And I think it did. And as I approach my own midlife point, I'm very interested in women who are writing about that. So Awake by Jen Hatmaker is in my number 10 spot.
- [16:00]
B
That sounds so good. Also. It's. So I did meet Elizabeth Gilbert, and I got her book. I did not. I promise. I'm not just. This is why, like, this is why the Lord would never, like, grant me the opportunity to meet anyone real famous because I would drop names so hard. But. No, but. So I did start Gilbert's book, and I was like, girl, you are so crazy. I need a minute.
- [16:22]
A
I wondered. I was. I have been desperate to know if you read it, because I knew you met her. You met her the same time you met Oprah. And I can understand, by the way, why her book was, like a celebrity book club pick, because it absolutely is a book that you would want to talk about with your book club. It is absolutely a gossipy talk about this over your mimosas book club book. But it is. Whoa. It is. And you know what made the news was like her planning to kill her lover. And that was y', all, if you read the book, that is a blip. There is a lot more going on in that. Like I remember thinking that's weird that that made the headlines. Like, yeah, to me there's a lot. There's a lot more going on in that book.
- [17:05]
B
Yeah.
- [17:06]
A
Anyway, I'll be interested to see if you finish it.
- [17:08]
B
Okay. So my number 10 spot, which is not Gilbert's book is Alligator Tears by Edgar Gomez, which was on my previous top 10. It's gone down a bit just because this is a hard year to pick and choose, but it's an essay collection about this queer Latinx writer who it's kind of tracing basically his journey as a writer and also just the experience of being like queer in Florida. And this book resonated on a personal level, but especially. And I think I talked about this on the mid year recap. But there is an essay where he talks about how he wrote. He spent so much of his time so consumed trying to write his first book, High Risk Homosexual. He put so much energy into it because he thought if I can make enough money with this book, I can get my family out of poverty and, and, and slowly realizing how unrealistic that idea was, but like still holding so tight onto it. And it's one of those things where I do think that when you come from like a poverty stricken home and when you are queer in the south and add onto this the fact that, you know, he is a person of color. Like, I think that all of that makes you often feel like you really do have to have this like Cinderella type fantasy in your head of like, okay, this big, big thing is gonna be the thing that pulls me out because you don't really see a way in the typical, like go to college like all these other things. It just doesn't always resonate in the same way.
- [18:38]
A
No, I think we see it in the, I think we acknowledge it in the sports space a lot more. Do you know what I mean? Like, I think we acknowledge it like, oh, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna buy my mom a home because I finally like, I made it big in the NFL or whatever.
- [18:53]
B
Well, Casey Gerald literally wrote about that in his memoir there Will Be no Miracles Here, which I was in my top 10 in 2018. But love that book. But yeah, but so this one. Yeah, this one had a lot of. And it's also. This book is really funny. It's very charming. He has. He narrates the audiobook and he has a little lisp that I think is so cute. So. But yeah, I like. I love this one. So highly recommend.
- [19:13]
A
Okay. My number nine is Life and Death and Giants by Ron Rindo. I would be remiss. I want to also just talk about the audiobook narration of this particular book because I thought the audiobook was fantastic and probably part of the reason I loved it, I was looking to see what their names were. So the audiobook was narrated by a few different voices. Christina Moore, Johnny Heller, Roger Wayne and Will Dameron. So it was like a cast of characters, which I really liked. But this one was introduced to me by Erin from the bookshelf. I also think our friend Meg, who runs Meg's reading room, she talked about this book a lot. But the premise I thought was pretty creative, where a young boy is born to his mother and he's born at £18. Then he becomes a giant and he lives in this Amish community. His mother dies during childbirth and so his grandparents help raise him, and his grandparents are Amish. So there's a lot, you know. You know very well that one of my favorite elements that I'm kind of always looking for in books is an element of faith and a faith experience and how it affects a person's day to day life, decision making, who. How it shapes who they are. And so I thought the look at Amish culture was extremely realistic and interesting. And it. He was a young man who is working out in the fields with his granddad one day and a local football coach spies, you know, sees him because he's huge. And so the book also takes some sports adjacent turns. These are not, let me be very clear, these are not books similar necessarily at first glance, but I do think there's a world in which Life and Death and Giants exists alongside Margot's got Money Troubles. So I think that is because there is a professional wrestling element of Life and Death and Giants that is prevalent. Also, Margot's got Money Troubles, but it's also about people who are trying to find their way in a world that no longer fits them or suits them. I thought this book was beautiful. I think the audiobook narration is fantastic. It was not an unsung book at the bookshelf. We talked about it all the time, but I don't know that it made a national bestseller list. I could be wrong, I'm not sure. But I think if you're looking at an end of the year book to try to like squeeze in before you finish 2025. I thought this book was excellent and really deserving of praise. He's doing a lot with this story and it never feels cheesy or schmaltzy. At the same time, I feel like I could hand sell it to almost anybody and there would be something there for them. So that is Life and Death and Giants by Ron Rendo.
- [21:46]
B
That sounds so good.
- [21:48]
A
It is. It's really good.
- [21:49]
B
Do you think I'd like it?
- [21:53]
A
No. Did you like how I just said I would hand sell it to almost anybody? Okay, wait, you know what I would say for real? Listen to it.
- [22:05]
B
Okay.
- [22:06]
A
I think, I think you should listen to it. I do think you would like the audiobook because of the cast of characters and I think that would hold your attention.
- [22:13]
B
Okay. I mean, that's kind of like typically with books that I'm not entirely sold on. If I do the audiobook, I'm like.
- [22:19]
A
I think you would like the audiobook a lot, actually.
- [22:21]
B
Okay. My number nine, which I'm wondering if this will be in your top 10 because it was in your top 10 of the mid year. But my number nine is the road to Tender Hearts by Annie Hartnett. Which. This book, it's so funny because I almost didn't include it because there were other more literary books that I was thinking about. But this book was so like, I like the first 30 pages are bonkers and it just kind of keeps and it really like somebody like I think maybe a blurb or something compared it to Little Miss Sunshine and I think that is so accurate. But it's like this, because there's like this cat actually so funny. There's a cat that like knows about death. That kind of reminds me of the similar thing that happens in Doctor Sleep by Stephen King.
- [23:06]
A
That's funny. How worlds collide, I'm telling you.
- [23:08]
B
But I don't know. But you know, this book, for anyone who doesn't know, this book is about this sort of family that's like this kind of mismatched and complicated and they go on this road trip. Like it's hard to talk about without spoiling anything because so much happens in the first 30 pages that if you read the first 30 pages, I promise you'll be like, oh, wow, I get it now.
- [23:29]
A
Well, and you won't. I don't think you'll be able to put it down. Like, I. I think that once you get started and once you fall in love with the characters who are. I Think could be in a different writer's hands. They could be like too quirky, too over the top, or this plot could be too weird. And instead, I mean, it's kind of like if. If folks like Kevin Wilson, don't you think they would like this?
- [23:52]
B
Like, yes.
- [23:52]
A
Family fang. Like, I. You know what else I will say? If you can write children in adult lit who are not obnoxious and like too precocious.
- [24:02]
B
Yes.
- [24:03]
A
Like unrealistic. I think it is very hard to write children. I think Annabelle Monahan wrote children really well and Nora goes off script. And I think Annie Hartnett writes kids really well.
- [24:13]
B
Well, I also think if you like what? I don't know. I don't know how to pronounce his last name, but I'm reading his book now. Jay Ryan, straight.
- [24:20]
A
Oh, somebody told me. Somebody did inform me via DM that I've been pronouncing it wrong my whole time. So straddle. I'm not even sure. I'm not even gonna attempt it.
- [24:28]
B
The guy who wrote Kitchens of the Great Midwest. I think if you like his books, I do think they have a very similar tone that I really enjoy.
- [24:35]
A
Yes. And you know what? Justice for books that air quotes aren't literary. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, like this is an exceptionally well written book. And I like, I totally know what you're saying because as a bookseller too, you kind of have to categorize like literary fiction versus other fiction. But. But this book is really well written. And like, just because a book is a good time doesn't mean it's less literary.
- [24:59]
B
In 2017, when you hand sold me the Vacationers by Emma Straub, you said, this is so good. It's a literary beach read. You're going to love it. And ever since then, anytime that something is like well written, just a really well done book, but it is also so hard to put down. I always think, oh, it's a literary beach reading.
- [25:21]
A
Listen. Because I think too we talked about being kind of insidery into the book world. We had a podcast listener, I think Maysoon is, who asked me this, but she said, how would you describe literary fiction to people who don't maybe know? Because that's not a genre you see in the bookstore. Like if you go to Barnes and Noble, I don't think there's a literary fiction section. But what I finally said was, it's like Oscar nominated films.
- [25:44]
B
Yes.
- [25:45]
A
Or an indie film. And here's the thing about Road to Tender Hearts. That could be an indie film easily. Greta Gerwig could. Could direct that film, and it would be nominated for an Oscar, and so that's why it's literary. But it also could be award winning, I think.
- [26:00]
B
Yeah, I agree.
- [26:02]
A
You're gonna hear me talk about that one later. So. Okay. Number eight for me is Buckeye by Patrick Ryan. I made this list and I'm. There is. I still am confident, but I feel like I could move this one down if I needed to, but I didn't need to, so. Okay. Buckeye by Patrick Ryan is a multi generational novel about two couples. I think some readers asked me if it reminded me of Dearly Beloved. No, it didn't. No, I'm sorry to say it didn't. But it's like two couples living in middle of nowhere Ohio. And it starts during, I want to say, World War. Oh, gosh. It starts during World War II, I'm going to say, and then goes through the Vietnam War era. And so it's not just about those characters, although it very much is about them and how their lives kind of intersect over the years, but it's also very much about the place. And I love books about a place. And so even though this book does not remind me of Dearly Beloved, it does remind me of Wallace Stegner. And I also think Kristin Hannah's the Women is a little bit more commercial. But if you liked some of that, I think you will like Buckeye a lot. I think it's very well written. It might have been a Jenna Bush Hager pick, which makes sense to me. It feels like one of her books. If it wasn't, it could have been great for book clubs. I don't normally like a spanning generations kind of epic story. I don't always love that. I kind of like vignettes almost or, I don't know, just glimpses into a season of somebody's life. But I really fell in love. There's one character in particular. He was wounded, so could not fight in World War II. So he kind of runs his family hardware store. That character, I think, will stick with me for a long time. I just kind of fell in love with him. And then there's also a character who his wife predicts or prophesies or. What is the word I want to say? She communes with the dead. That's the word. So she doesn't predict people's death. She communes with the dead. And I thought at first that that would be so weird and like, add an element of magical realism that I wasn't looking for. But it's not that way at all. It totally. And again, I think in a different writer's hands it could have felt kind of oddly placed, like that detail. But instead it totally makes sense with the family conflicts. And I loved this book. Probably would be great for gifting to maybe the mom reader, the grandma reader. Like, and I mean that in a complimentary way, like it's really probably your well read aunt who reads everything is going to be talking about Buckeye by Patrick Ryan.
- [28:35]
B
Do you know he sent me several.
- [28:36]
A
Books like Patrick Ryan did.
- [28:38]
B
Yes. And he was just like, he was like, oh. He's like, I think you might really like these. And he sent them to me and I still have not read them.
- [28:46]
A
Was he an. Is he. Okay, wait, is he an editor or agent or something? Or did he send you his books?
- [28:52]
B
His books.
- [28:53]
A
Okay. His books.
- [28:54]
B
Yeah, he was just like, he was like, I think you'd like these. So sweet. I am a terrible person. It's fine.
- [28:59]
A
When it's time to scale your business, it's time for Shopify. Get everything you need to grow the way you want. Like all the way. Stack more sales with the best converting checkout on the planet. Track your cha chings from every channel right in one spot. And turn real time reporting into big time opportunities. Take your business to a whole new level. Switch to Shopify. Start your free trial today. Can I tell you, Buckeye has some semblance to in memoriam.
- [29:37]
B
Okay. Okay.
- [29:38]
A
I do like, I think you could like Buckeye.
- [29:41]
B
Okay, that's good to know. Okay, my number eight pick, which I like. Okay. My number eight pick. It's Middle Spoon by Alejandro Varela.
- [29:50]
A
Yes. I wondered about this because it's such a great title, great concept.
- [29:54]
B
Okay, so it's this epistory novel. It's about a man who's in an open marriage whose boyfriend dumps him, basically. And the whole book is written in these emails to this boyfriend that he's like, like just yearning for and wanting to get back with. And his husband's like, calm down, it's okay. And it is such a beautiful, interesting, honest look at what it means to be in an open marriage and to love more than one person romantically. And listen, I think this book, it's so funny. This book is a really great companion book to Crush.
- [30:30]
A
I loved that book.
- [30:31]
B
Who is that by?
- [30:32]
A
Ada Calhoun?
- [30:33]
B
Yes. Okay. I think so. I read these books back to back and they're so good because they have completely different outcomes and they are. What's interesting is that Crush is kind of about someone who's in a marriage that's not bad, but isn't maybe like always happy and what that means. And like Middle Spoon is about a really happy, loving marriage that also happens to be open and allow for like more love in a different way. And it is messy. And also he like goes on these random tangents about like Oscar winning people. Like, like, and how like Amy Adams deserves an Oscar and oh, so right.
- [31:08]
A
Speaking your language literally.
- [31:09]
B
I was like, oh, I was like gays talking about Amy Adams. Sign me up.
- [31:14]
A
Well, and that's interesting that you say that because the Ada Calhoun book goes off on tangents because it's a novel, but she's kind of referencing her own life and she goes off on these tangents about poets and novelists. Like it's really, it's, it's so smart. That book is so smart. That's an unsung book actually. 2025. So that's interesting. I also did not know. It makes me want to read it more. I did not know Middlespoon was an epistolary novel. I feel like I would love that.
- [31:40]
B
Yeah, it's very, like I said, it's like the email situation. It's like very modern but like it still has that feeling of just. Yeah.
- [31:47]
A
So, okay, my number seven was also in my top ten at the beginning of this year. Was Buckeye in my top 10? No. Okay. I read some good books in the latter part of this year. My number seven was also in my top 10 in July. And it is Memorial Days by Geraldine Brooks. I don't know what this says about me. I think it means that I, I feel like I'm practicing grief all the time. Don't worry, I'm talking about it in therapy. It's okay. But I think I am frequently drawn to grief books. Even though I don't know that Geraldine Brooks really would want her book to be stacked among grief books. It is about the loss of her husband, the novelist writer Tony Horowitz. But particularly in my mind, it is a book about navigating grief in America. So I did not realize, and this is me being dumb, I didn't realize. Geraldine Brooks was, is Australian. And so she talks about trying to navigate the American system. Her husband died out of there like while he was on book tour actually. And so the way she's trying to make phone calls and she winds up having to do all of the day to day, nitty gritty menial grief tasks while grieving. So like trying to plan a funeral, trying to get his body back to their home. Like all these things that you forget, you will have to do, and you'll have to do it while you're out of your mind. And so after all this happens, she goes to Australia to finally set aside some specific time to grieve, which is not something I think Americans are very good at. And so I just like how she's personally writing about her interaction with these things. But then to me, she's also got a broader thing to say about the American personality and maybe some things that are wrong with how we grieve and what we require of people when they are grieving. I really liked it. It's beautiful writing. And I don't know if you are this way, but when I'm writing my top 10 of the year, of course I'm thinking, like, what will I remember at the end of this year? But I The books that frequently stick out to me. And this goes back to. You're right, it's our list. It's not necessarily an objective list. It's like what books met us right in a moment when we needed them. So I was reading Memorial Days when Jordan and I were on and a boy, do I hate this term. But we were on a quote, baby moon, whatever. But we were like in Savannah. I wasn't really sure. I don't know. I didn't actually believe we were going to have a baby. I really didn't until we did. I really didn't believe that we were actually. That a child was going to come out of any of this. And so I remember reading it and feeling like, oh, I can read. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, when you're going through a big something in your life and you haven't maybe been able to finish a book in a long time. And I remember reading that book in one sitting and thinking, oh, I'm still me. I still like books. I still like the books I've always liked. It was very comforting to me in that moment.
- [34:39]
B
Do you ever feel like the books that managed to break through a really hard moment in your life are the ones that you like? Because I think about. I read Fates and Furies the first time when one of my best friends and I, we had a falling out and I was trying to push past all those feelings and the emotions I was having to try to focus on the page. And I think that's one of the reasons why it stuck with me, was that it was the only book that managed to kind of push aside all of that noise.
- [35:07]
A
Yes, absolutely. That's exactly What? I mean, reading Memorial Days, I finally. I feel like I was kind of told that pregnancy would totally change me and motherhood would totally change me. And I think when people told me that, they meant it as a positive thing, but I felt very scared by that and a little bit lost by it. I thought, well, no, I like. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I like me. I've come to terms with me. I really like her. And so getting to finish a book and a book with heavier subject matter where I was like, oh, I still like this. Like, just because I'm in a different life stage or life season doesn't mean I like this any less. It was very comforting to me. And you're right. Pushed through the noise and the static.
- [35:50]
B
Not to be too woke. But I think whenever people say that, like, pregnant or having a baby pregnant cell, that stuff changes you. I think that's sexist.
- [35:59]
A
Thank you, Hunter.
- [36:00]
B
Yeah, thank you.
- [36:01]
A
Actually, this is a little insight into our friendship, but I will never forget I had told some people I was pregnant. And everybody was super kind, right? Everybody was super nice. But I told you when we. Do you remember we went out to brunch when you were home for Christmas, and we sat and we had breakfast together, and I think that is when I told you.
- [36:18]
B
Yeah.
- [36:19]
A
And, like, literally, I am pretty sure the first words out of your mouth were like, oh, my gosh. Well, Joyce Carol Oates and Toni Morrison wrote some of their best work after being mothers or something. You named two authors. I know one of them was Toni Morrison. I can't remember the other one. And I got. I came home to Jordan, and I said, everybody needs somebody like Hunter. Because it wasn't like, oh, my gosh, you're so different now. Or you're never. Like, you're gonna be so overwhelmed, or just you wait. Like, I mean, everybody was so happy for us, and I'm grateful for that. But you were one of the only people who I think unwittingly immediately gave me comfort. Because one of my big concerns was like, oh, no, what if I don't write anymore? Like, what if I don't have creative capacity anymore? And I don't even think I knew how to articulate that fear. And you immediately assuage that fear. So, anyway, just some friendship insight.
- [37:08]
B
Listen, I have one good quality. Are we on number seven?
- [37:14]
A
Yes, number seven. I digress. Sorry.
- [37:18]
B
So my number seven was also in my, like, wow. I guess I've loved a lot of books in the front half. My number seven was. Is Mothers and Sons by Adam Hayslett. This book is about. It's about several mothers and sons, but the one at the center is this man who. He's like a. I think he's like a. It's been the beginning of the year since I read it, but I think he's like an immigrant attorney or something like that. He's like something along those lines. And he's gay, but he has this like trauma from when he was a teenager that you don't totally know about. And his mom is now like an out lesbian pastor type thing. And so it's like dealing with like a lot of relationships between multiple mothers and sons in the book, but it's specifically dealing with the fact that you know that this. When he was a teenager, that he. Some traumatic thing happened that complicated the relationship with him and his mom. And they have not been able to kind of like completely reconcile it since then.
- [38:12]
A
Hmm. I think I would. We talked about this one a lot. Because you loved this book.
- [38:16]
B
Oh, I loved it.
- [38:17]
A
I think I would like to read it. I feel like I would like it.
- [38:19]
B
Did you read Imagine Me Gone?
- [38:21]
A
No. You ask that every time. And every time. I'm sorry to report.
- [38:25]
B
Listen, disappointment. It's fine. There's no.
- [38:28]
A
I know. Which should I read first, Imagine Me Gone or Mothers and Sons?
- [38:32]
B
I think Mothers and Sons is a faster read. Imagine Me Gone is so good though. I think that that's one I think it would get. You need a little more time to sit and read it, but it's worth it.
- [38:45]
A
Okay. That is one that I'm sorry I didn't get to this year. So hopefully next year, hopefully 2026. Okay. My number six book is another memoir. Actually memoir heavy this year. But number six is things in Nature Merely Grow. This is by Yooyun. I am pretty sure this is when. Yes, this was. Okay. This was number four earlier this year. I loved this memoir. It is brutal and again is another book that I might put in the grief canon, but Yu Yun Lee would probably not want me to. At least, you know, she had. She had some things to say about grief books, but this is about her two sons. Each of them took their own life at different stages and seasons of their lives. And it is not just about Yuyun Lee's grief as a mother, but it is also about how she is trying to honor her sons. And I thought it was also an interesting look at writerly life and where do the limits of everything is copy exist? You know, she's really trying to grapple with what is hers to Share. And what parts of her son's story does she want to share with the world? I thought this was beautiful. Gut wrenching. Oh, it's extreme to me. Very gut wrenching book. The writing is outstanding as I have come to expect from Yoo Yun Li. This was. Was this shortlisted or long listed for the National Book Award for Nonfiction?
- [40:04]
B
I know it was longlisted. I don't know if it was shortlisted or not.
- [40:08]
A
I think it was long listed. But anyway, well worth the praise. You know sometimes an author will show up in the National Book Award where you're like, oh, that's just because of who they are. Like because it's Yooyun Lee. But no, I think this book is outstanding and I'm afraid some people will shy away from it because of the subject matter and I wish she wouldn't. I think there's a lot to glean from it. Yeah, things in nature merely grow. I also think the title is beautiful. She's just an outstanding writer. So that's my number six.
- [40:35]
B
It was shortlisted by the way. And I'm mad because like I keep like I made a list of books and I. And whenever we did this last time in our mid year I said I was like, oh, I completely forgot to like because I didn't write it down. And I did. I forgot to write it down again this time because it would be in my top 10 but I'm not going back. But it would be my touchdown because I did love that book.
- [40:55]
A
Yeah, I thought you read that one too. I really liked it a lot.
- [41:00]
B
My number six, which I feel like will probably be in yours but could be wrong but is A Guardian and a Thief by Megha Majumdar.
- [41:09]
A
Yes, Majumdar. Yes.
- [41:11]
B
Let me tell you, here's the thing. So I enjoyed A Burning but there was like, there was some contra like people had a lot of opinions about it. Whenever I read A Burning and I was like, I can't deal with all these opinions. I can't do it right now. I'm too stressed. And so when I went into A Guardian and the Thief, I was not sure. Like I was like, I was like, thank goodness I have like an early copy because I can read it without the noise. And I could not put this book down. I thought it was. It's really one of those one sitting kind of books. It's so funny because Oprah, well it wasn't Oprah's book club pick and she will tell you sometimes it's one person's the Guardian and the other person's the thief. And other times the other person is the guardian and this person's the thief. And it is true, though. Like, it is true, but it's like in a near future. It's like the near future, right? Yeah, yeah. And there's. Oh, God, I'm like terrible at work.
- [42:02]
A
Listen, I love this book. I love this book. And part of the reason I liked it was because Oprah is right. And yes, sometimes we're guardians, sometimes we're thieves. This book could have been. It could have been like a preachy parable moral tale and it could have almost felt heavy handed.
- [42:21]
B
Yes.
- [42:22]
A
Instead, I was on the edge of my seat. I was stressed out. I was living it. It also felt it is set in the near future. Near future, Kolkata. This mother is trying to get her father and child to. I think it's like Ann Arbor, Michigan, and they're trying to go be where her husband is. They get like, they need a climate pass. It's all. It all felt very believable and yet came straight from her imagination. It totally feels like something that could happen in the near future. It felt like, you know, what is that? Like in school when you're like, what would you do? Would you run over a train with one person or a train killing? Do you know what it is dumb. Yeah. Yeah. Somebody is laughing at my description of the trolley problem. It's fine. The trolley problem? Yeah. That kind of stuff irritates the snot out of me. But I think this could have felt like the trolley problem. But it doesn't. It's so good.
- [43:16]
B
Yeah.
- [43:17]
A
So good.
- [43:17]
B
I love this book. I also like. Here's the thing. So much restraint, like such. It's so tight, so few pages.
- [43:26]
A
It's practically a novella.
- [43:28]
B
Truly. And let me tell you something. The last, like probably the last 20, 30 pages, I was gooped, gagged, shaken, stirred, mixed, like thrown upside down. I was like, what is happening? Yes.
- [43:40]
A
Oh, same. You know what it, you know what it reminded me of? It reminded me of the land of milk and honey.
- [43:49]
B
Yes.
- [43:50]
A
Right.
- [43:51]
B
Yes.
- [43:51]
A
I think they're very similar sensibilities, but I thought this one was extremely readable. Oh my gosh. Like, could not put it down.
- [43:59]
B
Agree.
- [44:01]
A
Okay. That was your number six.
- [44:02]
B
Mm.
- [44:03]
A
Okay. My number five was the Road to Tender Hearts by Annie Hart. So I will not belabor it. We've already talked a lot about it, but this was a book that I got to read. Have you ever had this experience where I read the like, bound galley? Like it was big and I felt like I was Miranda Priestley. Like, pre reading a book, I felt so important. If I Listen, if I were to become a book editor, I would be insufferable. I'd be insufferable. But I loved that feeling of, like, getting to read it before anybody else. And I treasured the reading experience. It was fun, funny, like, laugh out loud funny. But also the people were really endearing. I do think Little Miss Sunshine is the total. It's completely the right comp. I had a great time with this book, and I think. I actually weirdly think it deserves more praise. It's one of those books that published in the spring, and so I think we forgot about it, but I loved it. That is my number five.
- [44:57]
B
Oh, so good. My number five is Minor Black Figures by Brandon Taylor.
- [45:03]
A
Okay.
- [45:03]
B
Like, it's funny because, like, I have loved his other books, but I don't know why. I wasn't expecting. I wasn't expecting to love this as much as I did, but I actually think it's his best book yet. It's about this black artist who is, like, making. He's like, doing all these paintings of black figures in. Kind of set up in these. Inspired by older paintings or different films. Like, almost like. Almost like Woody Allen type films. Like, all these, like, older movies are typically, like, with white people. But he, like, puts, like, black people in, you know, and. But everyone at first, like, initially everyone kind of gives them a hard time about it and they're like, well, this isn't really like, what are you doing? And then at some point in 2020, he posted one and it's misread as being an act of protest. And he kind of blows up as an artist. And he's kind of, like, prickly about it because he's like, no, I'm not actually trying to do this in protest. I'm truly just trying to make this art and this book. It's having the same argument that a lot of other books, like Helluva Book or Invisible man, even, like, any of these other books have had, which is what is the responsibility of, you know, any marginalized writer really, or any marginalized artist at all? What is the responsibility of them to make something that is also educational or also protesting? And, like, is it like. Like, why is that responsibility put on them when it's not put on, you know, like, especially, like, white male writers. And so, like, that's a big point of conversation. But the way he handles it is so good because it never feels like anyone's like a talking head to, like, some point he's making it all. Just feels like it's very much lending itself to the story. And I think he writes so beautifully about art. And you haven't read him yet, right?
- [46:49]
A
No. Family Meal is one that I started.
- [46:54]
B
That's Brian Washington.
- [46:55]
A
Oh, wait, what's the other? What? Brandon Taylor. Name me some of his.
- [46:59]
B
Real Life is the one that you.
- [47:01]
A
That one?
- [47:01]
B
Yeah. Well. Cause remember, I read you. Listen, I read you a really intense scene from Real Life.
- [47:05]
A
Yes.
- [47:06]
B
Yeah.
- [47:06]
A
When it first came out and I started. Real Life is Family Meal. The one that's set on the. Which one is set on the college campus.
- [47:14]
B
Real Life is set on the.
- [47:15]
A
Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yes.
- [47:17]
B
So Brian Washington did Memorial Family Meal, and now Palaver, and Palaver is shortlisted for the National Book Award. It's not my favorite of his. It's fine.
- [47:28]
A
Okay.
- [47:29]
B
Anyway, yeah.
- [47:30]
A
Sorry to have confused them. Brandon Taylor. Real Life was the one where, like, somebody is a scientist.
- [47:35]
B
Yes.
- [47:35]
A
Am I making this up? Okay, you're right.
- [47:37]
B
Yeah.
- [47:37]
A
Okay. I'm sorry. I had those two books confused. I thought Family Meal was that. But no, this is Real Life.
- [47:43]
B
Yes. Real Life also is stream of consciousness, which I think is a little bit harder for you sometimes.
- [47:47]
A
Yes, it is. I have to really get into it. I have to be in the right mood. Okay. My number four, which was my number one in July. My number four is Tilt by Emma Patty. I loved this book. Again, probably a situation where this book especially spoke to me in 2025 when I was also pregnant. The man character of Tilt is pregnant in, oh, I want to say, Portland, Oregon, and she experiences an earthquake at ikea, and she's trying to make it home to her partner without essentially giving birth. I have had a few DMs that have asked me how on earth I could have read this while pregnant. And I want you guys to know that I didn't read what to Expect when youn're Expecting. I only partially read Emily Oster's book Expecting Better. Tilt was my preparation for giving birth. I honestly read it and thought, well, if this woman can do it while in the middle of an apocalyptic event, then surely I can do it. That's how I felt. I loved it.
- [48:48]
B
That's the thing. Like, sometimes whenever people are like, how could you read that going through what you're going through? I'm like, oh, believe me, it gives me so much comfort.
- [48:55]
A
Yes. It gave me so much comfort. I was like, well, this woman's. This woman can do it and she is going through it, so surely I can give birth. At my hospital, on time. Like, I. Anyway, I. And I think the writing is good. I cannot believe it was a day. I believe it was a debut. I just. I thought it was excellent. And again, I. I think I've asked this question on Patreon before, and there's probably a different answer depending on what season of life you're in or whatever. But as a reader, what are you drawn more towards? Like, is it the biggest tome of a novel, or is it the tight taught prose in, like, a short book? And for me, maybe it's my current season of life, but I am wildly impressed by a book that is short and that tells a complete story with, like, no extra. Nothing extra.
- [49:42]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I ended up reading that book after. After you mentioned that. And I also. I finished it one sitting because I was like, this is so good.
- [49:49]
A
It's so good.
- [49:50]
B
I do have to say a very quick, funny aside. Talking about, like, reading books, like, during stressful things. I don't know if you remember whenever there was that shoot that. That shooter at the yoga studio that Ashley and I used to go to.
- [50:02]
A
I do, because that was on Soup Night. Do you remember that? I think about it every time there's a Soup Night.
- [50:07]
B
Oof. Dark. So I. So, right. Because I was supposed to go to that class and I was running late because of the. Yeah. But anyway, it was so funny, though, because after. After that happened, I ended up reading a book. I think it was by John Updike. It's, like, about, like, an active shooter. And, like, I read it, like, right after. And people like, why are you reading that? And I was like, I'm just, you know, curious.
- [50:30]
A
What is that? I am that way, too. I think there is. I think some people. Some readers, like, don't want to touch things that are too close, which I. By the way, I understand that. I'm just saying my impulse is to do the opposite. My impulse is to be like, well, wait, I want to delve into that. I'm curious about this. I need to know what this would look like.
- [50:52]
B
Yeah. Which is funny, because that's one of the reasons why I never hesitate to recommend books to you, even if I think it's something that's, like, close to something that's going on with you. Because I'm like, that don't matter.
- [51:00]
A
It doesn't bother me. Okay. Can I tell you, my number 11 book would have been Fox by Joyce Carol Oates.
- [51:10]
B
Oh, yeah. Okay. Same.
- [51:12]
A
Okay. Okay. And that is interesting, right, because that is a book about a predator, a pedophile I read that. Literally. That's the first book I finished after giving birth to a son. And I. To say that I loved that book feels weird. But I thought that book was so good. And I know. I know when I reviewed that book, people were like, what? What in the world is wrong with Annie B. Jones? And I don't know, guys, I don't know, but I really liked that book.
- [51:45]
B
Okay, let's see. I know you're gonna hate this, but now I feel like you should read Tampa by Alyssa Nutting, because there is a book.
- [51:49]
A
I might as well bring it on.
- [51:51]
B
Listen, there's in such conversation. Anyway, okay, my number four is when I just finished, like a week or so ago, which is Lightbreakers by Asia Gable.
- [52:02]
A
I'm so mad. I gotta read this, Hunter. I have to read it. I haven't. I. Highly anticipated. I didn't get an arc. I'm mad about it.
- [52:09]
B
Let me tell you. I started it on my. When I was at the reader retreat, like, whatever, like a week or two ago. And I don't know what I expected from it. So it's about this married couple who. The woman's an artist. The man is like a scientist, and he was married before, and him and his ex wife had a young daughter who died. And he is kind of caught up in this. In this new project that he's been invited to work on that is basically dealing with some form of time travel. And of course, his grief kind of leads him into different territories of that. But this book is so beautiful. It's so well written. It's very charming. But the way she handles grief and the way that she writes about Emma Straub's. I think it's this time tomorrow. Did you read that?
- [53:01]
A
Yes. Love that.
- [53:02]
B
Okay, so Lightbreakers handles time travel in a similar way in some ways, but like. But the way that this book. I don't know. Like, I don't want to give anything away, but I. I loved that they're. The three main characters are the wife, the husband, and then, like, the ex wife. And it kind of revolves around all of their stories. And I just thought she did such a beautiful job. Every. Like, I was never bored with it at all. I was invested the entire time. And I.
- [53:29]
A
Can I ask you a question about it? Yes, I. What is it? Convoluted.
- [53:35]
B
I didn't find it to be.
- [53:37]
A
I think I. Far be it from me. Far be it from me. You know, I loved the ensemble. I've been waiting for the Angel Gable book. That's why I'm perturbed that I did not get an arc, but whatever, I will read it. But I have been hesitant because the description to me is convoluted. And this is where you are probably benefited because you don't read the descriptions. You just probably went into it. But I feel like the publisher did not do her service in my mind by how they wrote about the book.
- [54:06]
B
Okay. But also, I actually like. I loved the ensemble, but I found it a little bit. A little bit messy at times.
- [54:12]
A
Yes, Well, I think that was if you read reviews. Cause I did a podcast episode about that where I did into the back list, and I looked up reviews of the book when it came out. I loved that book. And I recall it, for me being. You know, I don't even know if I was doing star ratings at that time, but it was like, I loved it. Okay. I loved it. But a lot of reviews. If you go look at critical reviews of that book, they talk about it's a little messy. Like, too many character. Like, a little confusing. And so anyway, I. Okay. After I hang up with you, should I go back to the bookshelf and get it?
- [54:43]
B
Yes.
- [54:43]
A
How fast did you read it?
- [54:45]
B
Oh, it was like two days.
- [54:47]
A
Okay. That's what I want. Okay. Maybe I'll read it this weekend. Thank you.
- [54:50]
B
It's also really good on audio, too, because I did listen to part of the audio when I was walking.
- [54:53]
A
Oh, okay. I'm almost done with an audiobook right now, so maybe I will download it. Okay. Let me find mine. Okay. My number three. I will be curious if this is on your list. My number three book is Flashlight by Susan Choi. I loved this book. We all know. Just kidding. But I think Hunter knows how I felt about trust exercise, and I think you're right. It was the stream of consciousness of it all. Which maybe. I don't know, maybe I should try. I feel like I'm a little snotty about it. Maybe I should go back and do Ducks Newburyport. Do you remember that book? Should I go back and do that?
- [55:23]
B
Okay, why don't you and I, we should have a Ducks Newburyport summer where we'd spend the whole summer. Like.
- [55:29]
A
Oh, that'd be fun. Yeah, that'd be really fun. Okay. Put a thumb in that. Put a thumb down. What is the word?
- [55:35]
B
Put a. Put a.
- [55:36]
A
Put a pin in that. Put a pin in that. Put a pin in that. Jordan says, put a thumb down, which I'm not even sure is a thing. I think it's like a Southern. So I Just said, put a thumb in it. Which is disgusting. Don't do that. Put a pin in it. Okay, yeah, that's a great idea. And then we could go. Then should we go to Newburyport? That's what we should do. Yes, that sounds great. Okay. I loved Flashlight. And the reason that I liked Flashlight, interestingly enough, because I've just talked about these books that are tight and taught and like, tell a complete story in a few pages. What I liked about Flashlight, that I typically don't like, and maybe it's because I haven't read enough that are very good, but I feel like she's doing so much. There is so much happening in this book. There's the family conflict that the heart of the book is a husband that goes missing. And now his children and wife, like, kind of have to grapple with his. With the loss of him. But then she's also dealing. The author is also dealing a lot with history. And so there's like a historical fiction element. You get a lot of. About this man's personal history and his maybe generational trauma, maybe his immigrant trauma. Like all these different kind of things. Identities are at stake and playing a role in the book. I thought it was masterfully handled. I think it is. Okay, now, long list, shortlist for the National Book Award. Now I can't remember.
- [56:57]
B
This is long listed. Yeah.
- [56:58]
A
Okay. I thought it was excellent. It's my favorite of her works. There is a world in which this could have been my top book of the year. I really liked it that much.
- [57:07]
B
Yeah. I love Flashlight. I will have more to say about it in a minute. But when it did not make the shortlist because I thought she was.
- [57:15]
A
I was peeved.
- [57:16]
B
Oh, I thought she was the winner. And when I listen, I was messaging a lot of people in publishing. I like. Ramon Alam was the chair of this year's fiction.
- [57:27]
A
Oh, I didn't know that.
- [57:28]
B
Yeah. And I. He has not read it, but it's fine. But I messaged him. I was like, I am outraged. I think there needs to be. I was like, there feels like something's wrong here. It's fine. I actually, like, I said something so shady to Brandon Taylor. I was like. I was like, I feel like they swapped. I feel like they swapped some of these books on accident when they were making a list anyway. But okay, so. But my number three is Ordinary Time by youy. It has stayed. Yeah. It is really funny though because like, I actually did have a lot of people who whenever we came out with the mid year and you'd dropped. Everyone's like, wait a minute. What? Listen, I like, this should prove I am not biased.
- [58:08]
A
That's right.
- [58:09]
B
Yeah. But this book was. I thought it was so beautiful, so well written, so moving, so funny. I. It's so. Somebody was. Somebody from my old CrossFit gym read it, and she. She was like. She goes, yeah. She's like, the way that she writes, particularly about faith. She's like, it's not really. She's like, it's not really like a faith book. She said. But the way she wrote about it was so accessible. And I really enjoyed that. And I said. I was like, I think that Annie writes really like, a Southern Christian type. It's not specifically Southern, but it does feel like the roots are there. But it's a. I think Hugh writes Southern Christian experience for a secular crowd in the same way that Mary Carr writes Catholicism for a secular crowd. But I also think that you pull in. So, yeah. So I think that you have some of the humor and the awareness and the ability to pull in a wider audience that Mary Carr has. But I also think that you have the tenderness and the nuance and the. Just the total brilliance of someone like Marilynne Robinson. And I think that it is one of my favorite books of this year. And also, it is a book that, like, truly, I've said this to you before, it is a book that changed my life. It is probably. It will probably go down as, like, one of my, like, top 10 books of all time. But, yeah, I love this book and. Go ahead.
- [59:29]
A
I wrote a book about staying, and then you left me.
- [59:32]
B
I know. Isn't that so funny? I know it is so funny because, like, I feel like those things happen. So, like, I feel like you first, like, really.
- [59:42]
A
I mean, I reference it in the book I never name you, but in the. I reference. In one of the essays, I say two of my friends just moved and, like, you and Ashley moved back to back. And I was like, great. Love this. Love this for me.
- [59:54]
B
Which is so funny, because when you were first working on the. When you were first working on the essays, you'd even talked about our friendship. Yeah.
- [60:02]
A
Which did you see? I posted today on Instagram, like, some of the original book proposal, and there was a whole essay, but I haven't. I didn't flesh it out, and I didn't want to, like, tokenize our friendship, so I scrapped it one day.
- [60:17]
B
See, you know, I give you the opportunity to, like, call me your gay best friend, and then you're just like.
- [60:22]
A
Well, next year, next time, Next time. Okay. My second best favorite book of the year is the Correspondent by Virginia Evans. I think this is a beautiful book. I think this is the kind of book I wish I had written. It's an epistolary novel about a woman who is losing her eyesight, but her whole life she has written letters. What I was delighted by was she hasn't just written letters to her friends and family, although those letters are in this book. She has also written Letters to Larry McMurtry, Ann Patchett, Joan Didion. And so it is the most wonderful encapsulation of the readerly life. It is also a book that is dealing with a little bit of grief. And when we reach the end of our lives, what are we examining? What are we. What are we grappling with at the end of life? So if Awake was about midlife, I think the Correspondent is about end of life. This book finally did make it to the New York Times bestseller list. It is now everywhere. Now I have seen it everywhere. I think it's been difficult for us to keep in stock, but I adored this book. I'm pretty sure Ashley, who owns the St. Joe Story Collective bookstore in St. Joseph, Missouri, she was who really pushed me to read this one. It had been on my radar, but again, did not receive an arc. So I downloaded it to my Kindle and now I'm so mad because, like, I feel like I need a copy printed that I can mark up. But I loved this book and I think it's a book. It's a book for anybody. All of my aunts read it and loved it. My aunt, my mom read it and loved it. But it's not just that. I think it's a book for readers, but I think. I don't know anybody. Maybe if you read the Frank Bruni memoir about him losing his eyesight. I just think there's a lot of worth talking about. We did it for our book club for read a retreat, and it was just a lovely book to talk about. We talked a lot about the lost art of letter writing and anyway, loved it. That is the Correspondent by Virginia Evans.
- [62:17]
B
Should I read that?
- [62:18]
A
Yeah, I do think you should read it. I think you would love it. I also think you would like it at this season in your life.
- [62:23]
B
T as someone who needs to update their prescription on their classes.
- [62:29]
A
Yeah, I think this would be a good follow up to Jay Ryan Struttle, or however Lord only knows how I'm supposed to pronounce it.
- [62:39]
B
Okay, so my number two is flashlight.
- [62:42]
A
Okay.
- [62:43]
B
Yeah.
- [62:43]
A
I love when we I do still love when we have our little Venn diagram.
- [62:46]
B
Let me tell you, this book, it was. It's so funny because I hadn't read it yet. Whenever we did our last one, I.
- [62:52]
A
Never beat you to books anymore.
- [62:54]
B
I'm telling you, when you. It's so funny. This is the only. It's so funny, you know, you get a book deal, and I'm like, congratulations, you read a book before me. And I'm like, oh, I see. Well, no, it's fine.
- [63:05]
A
Because I feel like you are always. You are definitely the influencer. Like, meaning the influencer of me. Like, you read books before I do. I'm always texting you. Like, have you read this? Publishers love you. They send you books all the time.
- [63:18]
B
Do you know what it is I always like? Every time I meet that it meets somebody, I'm like, oh, my gosh, you like really cute earrings or, oh, my gosh, I love your bracelet. And they remember that. And they're like, oh, you complimented me. Here's a book. And you are so.
- [63:29]
A
You are. You and Jordan Jones are so good at that, and I am so not.
- [63:33]
B
See, you're like. You're like, everybody's ugly. I'm just kidding.
- [63:39]
A
Yeah, that's it. That's me. That's my first.
- [63:42]
B
But. Yeah. No, but I love Flashlight. I. When. Yeah, I knew I was gonna love it even before I read it because I took her. I took a online class with her, and I thought that she was so brilliant, and I loved hearing her talk about it, but reading it especially. Listen, you and I talk all the time about, like, last lines, last pages, the way that book ended. Gutted.
- [64:03]
A
Yes.
- [64:04]
B
So good.
- [64:05]
A
So good and so hard to do. So hard to do. Because that was a book that really was kind of epic and sweeping in its storytelling. Oh, but it was so good.
- [64:14]
B
I know.
- [64:15]
A
Okay. My number one book, Hunter, My number one book is A Guardian and a Thief.
- [64:20]
B
I knew it was gonna be.
- [64:21]
A
It sure is. I don't listen now. I loved A Burning. And I did read a Burning, as I recall, before the Internet read A Burning. And I think I was benefit. I think that was a benefit to me. I read A Guardian and the Thief. I think I texted you the moment I finished. I was in my bathtub and I was like, hunter, what just happened to this book? I loved it. I think the ending was bonkers. Brave. I think the it. Like I said earlier, it easily could have been preachy. It easily could have felt like some kind of moral dilemma book, but it didn't. It just felt really well drawn, like, really well drawn characters. Loved it. Shocking. It'll stand out to me, obviously, at the end of the year.
- [65:05]
B
My number one, which has been my number one all year, is Audition by Katie Kitamura. This book is. It has, like. It pulls a little bit from, like, Fates and Furies and Gone Girl and stuff, but it is a book about this woman. She's an actress. And one day this man comes into her life. This young man comes into her life, and he's like, I think you're my mom. And she's like, I think I'd remember that. But Katie's idea was she loved all these books about, like, men who, like, randomly have a child that's possibly theirs stumble into their life. And she thought it'd be so interesting, like, what would it. What would it look like if that happened for a woman?
- [65:47]
A
And.
- [65:48]
B
And the way she pulls it off is so smart. But what's even smarter is, is that the. There's a. The woman who's an actress, she's doing a play, and the play itself is confusing to the actress. But what the play, if you pay attention to the play when you're reading it, the play is telling you how the book functions and how to read and understand it. And I think that that is so smart to me, like, to be able to, like, tell your reader, like, like, without you even realizing me. Like, here's. Here is how this book functions in.
- [66:25]
A
I know. This is. Yeah, I know. This is my second Margot's Got Money Troubles reference. And I'm sorry about it, but you know, in Margot's Got Money Troubles where she's talking about and playing with narration.
- [66:37]
B
Yes.
- [66:38]
A
Do you know what I mean? Like, where you feel like you're almost a student learning. Because she, as I recall, is a student anyway, she's playing with narration in that way. I wonder if there's similarity there.
- [66:49]
B
I think, listen, this book, so beautiful. Also, the way she writes about being a woman who's an artist who's not a parent. The way that she writes about the idea of being an artist who is a parent, and the way that she writes about marriage, the way that she writes about unhappy marriage or happy marriage. Like, it's. This book does such an interesting trick that never feels. It never feels gimmicky. It never feels like it's. I think it's just pulled off in such a smart way that I was so impressed by, and I. There's like a whole. There's a whole chapter in the first half of the Book that. That's about breakfasts between this couple that is like seared into my mind. And I just. Listen, if you don't love this book, I don't. I don't know. I don't know if we'll survive.
- [67:34]
A
I think I would love it. I think.
- [67:36]
B
Yeah.
- [67:36]
A
Okay. Now that I've heard your top 10, I feel like I need to for sure read Light breakers and Audition.
- [67:44]
B
Yes.
- [67:44]
A
And then I also think I could read Mothers and Sons and maybe Minor Black Characters.
- [67:53]
B
Figures.
- [67:54]
A
Figures. I'm just screwing that up all over the place.
- [67:58]
B
You should try to read just a couple short stories by Brandon Taylor.
- [68:02]
A
You know what? I. Okay, now am I gonna screw this up again? Does he have a really fun email newsletter or substack?
- [68:08]
B
Yes. Yes.
- [68:09]
A
Okay. I'm like, God, please don't tell me I've gotten him confused this whole time because that will be mortifying. Okay. I really like his writing style, so I think that I would love him. I just need to find the right book for me.
- [68:21]
B
For him. Yeah, yeah, No, I agree.
- [68:23]
A
Are there any books off my list that you are going to try to read?
- [68:26]
B
I'll probably read Awake for sure.
- [68:29]
A
I've heard that's great on audiobook, by the way too.
- [68:31]
B
Oh, that's good to know. I'll probably read. Yeah, I'll read the Correspondent. I will Memorial Days. I don't know why I didn't read that, but I'm really interested in that.
- [68:38]
A
Oh, yeah, I would think you'd like it.
- [68:40]
B
I do want to read Buckeye. I guess I'm reading all these that I didn't read.
- [68:43]
A
What'd you say?
- [68:44]
B
I guess I'm gonna read all the ones I didn't read.
- [68:47]
A
Well, you read faster than I do, so you might be able to pull it off. Okay. Now that I've talked through it, maybe this was a great reading year. Maybe I was underselling it.
- [68:55]
B
Yeah, this is what happens. Listen, every time we record a podcast, it is so funny. No matter what it is. Even if it's Conquer Classic, we start and it's like, all right, here we go.
- [69:07]
A
And then by the end, look how happy we are.
- [69:09]
B
I know it. Really listen. But you know what? Maybe it's not the books. Maybe it's just us.
- [69:14]
A
Maybe it's us. Maybe it's Maybelline. Maybe it's us. Thank you so much, Hunter. We would love to know yalls top 10 of the year, so feel free to comment on Instagram, message us, DM us. We'd love to know what books made your top 10. Hunter. Thank you so much and I'll see you in 2026. Bye. This week I'm reading Grace and Henry's holiday movie Marathon Hunter. What are you reading?
- [69:45]
B
I'm reading Saturday Night at the Lakeside Supper Club by J. Brian Straddle from.
- [69:53]
A
The Front Porch is a weekly podcast production of the Bookshelf, an independent bookstore in Thomasville, Georgia. You can follow the Bookshelf's daily happenings on Instagram ookshelftville, and all the books from today's episode can be purchased online through our store website, bookshelf thomasville.com a full transcript to today's podcast episode can be found at. From the frontporchpodcast.com Special thanks to Studio D Podcast Production for production of from the Front Porch and for our theme music, which sets the perfect warm and friendly tone for our Thursday conversations. Our executive producers of Today's Episode are Cami Tidwell, Jamie Treadwell, Linda Lee Drost, Jean Queens Martha Stephanie Dean Beth Ashley Farrell, Amanda Wickham, Nicole Marcy Wendy Jenkins. Thank you all for your support of from the Front Porch. If you'd like to support from the Front Porch, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Your input helps us make the show even better and helps us reach new listeners. All you have to do is open up the podcast app on your phone. Look for from the Front Porch, scroll down down until you see. Write a review and tell us what you think. Or if you're so inclined, support us. Over on Patreon, where we have three levels of support. Each level has an amazing number of benefits like bonus content, access to live events, discounts and giveaways. Just go to patreon.com forward/from the frontporch we're so grateful for you and we look forward to meeting back here next week.
- [71:31]
B
SA.