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- [00:01]
Diana Ransom
Diana.
- [00:01]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Christine, when was the last time that.
- [00:04]
Diana Ransom
You did something totally fearless?
- [00:06]
Ariane Simone
I do things all the time that make me that. Like, I'm scared about, but I do them anyway. Yeah, to some degree. Public speaking, I kind of don't like it. Yeah. But I feel like it's good for me. It's good to stretch. Also teaching this class that I've been teaching for four years.
- [00:21]
Diana Ransom
Yeah, you teach this class at nyu?
- [00:23]
Ariane Simone
Still freaks me out every time. Every time I do it. Like doing something you're not familiar with that you haven't mastered yet. And that gives me some sort of, I guess, anxiety about it.
- [00:35]
Diana Ransom
But I feel like that act of being uncomfortable and making yourself uncomfortable is how you grow, right?
- [00:42]
Ariane Simone
Totally, totally. And I see that too. It's like I'm stretching. I'm learning, like the whole teaching the class. I've never learned so much about the craft of journalism. It's great and I definitely don't regret it, but it's definitely fear inducing.
- [00:55]
Diana Ransom
Sure, sure, sure. After more than a decade of going on stage and interviewing people on stage and giving talks and teaching your class, is it easier? No.
- [01:08]
Ariane Simone
This is from the ground up. I'm inc. Executive Editor Diana Ransom.
- [01:12]
Diana Ransom
And I'm editor at large Christine Ligorio Chavkin. Today's episode being Fearless.
- [01:23]
Ariane Simone
So, Christine, for today's episode, I spoke with Ariane Simone. How much do you know about Erin Simone?
- [01:27]
Diana Ransom
I know that she was on the COVID of our female founders issue for Inc. Magazine. And it looks great.
- [01:32]
Ariane Simone
It looks so good. She's stunning. And the whole assemblage is great. We have four covers this issue, so super thrilled about that. So she is the founder of the Fearless Fund, Founder of the Fearless Foundation. You're noting the trend here. She also created the Fearless magazine. So she's just kind of embodied this, like, fearlessness throughout her whole career. It's interesting because so Fearless Fund is a venture capital firm that focuses on people from diverse backgrounds, typically female founded businesses, which kind of is a nice symbiosis with our female founders package. The Fearless foundation, however, was the subject of a really significant lawsuit about 13 months ago. And it has just been one big dramatic story after another. A lot of back and forth. The lawsuit was theoretically gonna go all the way to the Supreme Court at some point. So it's a lot of drama airing the story.
- [02:23]
Diana Ransom
So she literally had to be fearless to get through this. It's not just branding.
- [02:28]
Ariane Simone
Absolutely, absolutely. So I was really looking forward to speaking with her. She's had a hell of a year, but it was interesting how kind of like, we got back to sort of the roots of where the idea came from. She had started a fashion boutique in Tallahassee where my grandma lived when I was a kid. So she experienced at that point just kind of like a lack of capital access and realized from that moment that she wanted to be a part of providing access to people. And so that kind of like, set the wheels in motion for the Fearless Fund. So I asked her about this and plenty more. I started the conversation by talking to her about why she even chose venture capital as the tool for her work.
- [03:05]
Erin Simone
Great.
- [03:06]
Diana Ransom
I can't wait to hear it.
- [03:07]
Erin Simone
I don't know if I selected venture capital or venture capital selected me. So one day I was in New York City with two of my friends, and we were pitching to Gary Vaynerchuk, the I used to. Gary V. Yes. Gary Vee, the social media personality, businessman extraordinaire. And we weren't aware that we were pitching to him. And he only had a $25 million fund if we had a $10 million pitch. And he was like, well, this can't happen because the fund is deployed. But it was very much one of those, like, aha moments, because I went out on the streets of New York right after, and I just watched the cars go by. And I was just standing there, and my friend, he said, I know what you're thinking. He said, you want to be on the other side of that table. And I'm thinking in my head, of course I want to be the one that's empowered to deploy the capital. And that's when I knew that venture capital could be a way for me to honor what I said to myself in college. I had no clue what the promise would look like later on. I had no clue that they would even revisit me and my thoughts.
- [04:15]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Yeah.
- [04:16]
Erin Simone
But I knew in that moment that it was then possible.
- [04:20]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
So it stuck with you after.
- [04:22]
Erin Simone
It was providential because that's the same amount that we pitched to him for that day as the same amount we closed on.
- [04:27]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
So how much time between when you had that aha moment to actually being able to close on fearless? Fun one.
- [04:34]
Erin Simone
So around 2017, I started doing a lot of the groundwork. Got it as far as meeting people. Once you put something out there in the atmosphere, what you're seeking is seeking you. So people just started saying, oh, I work in venture capital. Now paying attention. I work in venture capital. I'm now paying attention. Got our advisors on board, had all the paperwork ready from securities Attorneys 2018. So that was more so the route in which things got moving started raising capital, and it took three years to close fund one.
- [05:06]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
What is your ethos in terms of investing? What kinds of companies and people do you tend to invest in?
- [05:11]
Erin Simone
So high level. The things that we look for are a good brand story. How good is the product, what kind of traction do you have, and how strong is your team? That's something that just has to pass the smell test. But there is a level of the intangible. There is something you're gonna feel in your gut that tells you this is a person worth betting on. That's something you feel in your gut. You know that these are people worth betting on. And it's not that I can put it into words. It's just all intuitive. So those are the high level things. Then they go through a process of diligence. Then they go through a series of meetings with our company and our team. But there is something that you just know, and then you're like, no, they have something special. And whatever that special thing is, it's something that's irreplaceable.
- [06:02]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Right. This intangible. I feel like that way to some degree. With journalism and what we do and the types of. The types of companies that we pick to write about, you want to like what you're doing at the end of the day, and so you want to like who you're writing about, potentially. When you can pick, it's nice to be able to pick. So curious about your family, too. We didn't really get into too much of your backstory, but you grew up in Detroit. Your father was an. From what I understand, and one of his clients was Rosa Parks.
- [06:29]
Erin Simone
That is true.
- [06:30]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
And you were tasked with helping her out after school, is that right?
- [06:34]
Erin Simone
Not that I was tasked. I think that was just the nature of our relationship at that point. I don't think anybody even asked me. My high school was actually down the street from where she was staying in her condo.
- [06:43]
Ariane Simone
Mm.
- [06:44]
Erin Simone
So I would just go check on her after school. It was the nature of our relationship. My father the other day was telling a story about when she was in the house one time and my sister was over. I wasn't even in the house to stay, and her friends were like, oh, Ashley's grandmother and me, she was like, that's Rosa Parks. So she was a grandmother figure. You take care of your grandmother. I would go pick her up something from the grocery store. But after traveling with her for so many years, back to back, that was just the nature of our relationship.
- [07:13]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Wait, what do you mean by traveling with her?
- [07:15]
Erin Simone
She had programs in the summer that would go around to different civil rights monuments, that would go around the underground Railroad. And even outside of the programs that she was running through her foundation, I would travel with her. Speaking engagements or places like that. In general.
- [07:31]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
You just go to support her or you would actually help out or.
- [07:35]
Erin Simone
Oh, gosh. Probably a little bit of everything at that time. As a child. As a child. A little bit of everything.
- [07:41]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
That's amazing. Any things she taught you?
- [07:45]
Erin Simone
Oh, my gosh. You want the list? Oh, that. You may have to wait for some of my writings, of course. We always love her fearless quote. But I will say this. She talked to me about giving and receiving and that basically you will always receive more from what you gave and that that's just the universal way that the whole world works. She was like, if you continue to give, you're gonna get more. On the backhand, she said, everything I've ever given, she said, I've always received more. So she was always big on that. She practiced yoga.
- [08:17]
Ariane Simone
Oh, no way.
- [08:18]
Erin Simone
Oh, yes. It was a practice of hers. She was big on calming her mind, trying to think of stuff like you wouldn't know or wouldn't read about. That's why I threw that.
- [08:26]
Ariane Simone
Yeah.
- [08:27]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
I would never have ever even thought of that. She also suffered considerably after this. Like, she became a target. She was robbed. She was targeted in other ways potentially.
- [08:36]
Erin Simone
Oh, yeah. But we took very good care of her. And that was my father's prayer. He did teach me that. He said, you need to take care of your leaders.
- [08:44]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
How much did your parents influence your life choices?
- [08:48]
Erin Simone
They gave me the freedom to be me.
- [08:49]
Ariane Simone
Mm.
- [08:51]
Erin Simone
They influenced my life choices by how they live their lives versus what they instructed me to do. They did more. So give me the freedom, like I said, to just be me. My father always says I never gave her any instructions, which is true. I was very much a self motivated child. I would do my homework weeks in advance. I would get good grades, straight A's for the most part. And I remember graduating middle school valedictorian with all threes in citizenship. That's not good.
- [09:24]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Oh, why? Why is that?
- [09:25]
Erin Simone
That means bad behavior.
- [09:26]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Oh.
- [09:27]
Erin Simone
That means I'm talking a lot through class. I remember even one of the teachers trying to explain to my mother, like, well, we need to do something about this. She has all threes and straight A's and she's our valedictorian. And my mother said, we need to do nothing. So that's Why? I said, they gave me the freedom to just be me.
- [09:47]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Your parents let you live your life. But then, of course, some decisions are forced upon us. Right. Some choices are not in our hands. I'm speaking in particular about August 2, 2023. You learned about the case from the American alliance for Equal Rights from media calling.
- [10:04]
Erin Simone
Yes. The staff. Yes. I was calm at first because I just didn't believe it was ours.
- [10:12]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Yeah.
- [10:13]
Erin Simone
Staff was calling and said, oh, the media's reaching out because of this court case. And I was like, we don't have a court case.
- [10:20]
Ariane Simone
Yeah, you're like, what court case?
- [10:22]
Erin Simone
Exactly. And I even told them it was chatgpt. I said, this is so. Because I'm thinking, like, it can't be us. I know nothing about a court case. So I was like, oh, don't worry about it. I was going to sort itself out. They call back again. They're sitting there calling staff members and they need them to report on it. I said, well, you tell them, don't say anything. I said, well, we don't have a court case. And next you know, it's plastered all over the media. And I tell the staff, hey, if it's a court case, what I do know about the law and filing suits is that it's public. I said, just fine me the filing. And they found it. And that's the moment I knew it was real.
- [10:57]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
And what did that set off for you? You went down the rabbit hole.
- [11:00]
Erin Simone
The top of it said, the United States District. So I said, oh, my gosh, we have a federal court case. This is the problem. This is problematic now. And, yeah, I texted Ben Crump emergency in all capital letters. And I started alerting people from the head of the NAACP on down like, hey, there's a situation going on out here.
- [11:18]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
And it ended up being one of the most, if not the most prominent DEI backlash.
- [11:25]
Erin Simone
Oh, because we were the inaugural defendants of the anti DEI war. So post Ed Bloom's victory with his SCOTUS ruling of June of 2023, striking affirmative action down at. For higher education down at the Supreme Court, people were waiting. I mean, he probably pursued that for years and then had a victory. So the moment he filed, it became national news. Right, Right.
- [11:51]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Why do you think he targeted your organization?
- [11:54]
Erin Simone
We still don't know to this day, honestly, we do not know. I can't say I think he may need to answer why he did. But I do know that there is just this spirit of fear that is just taking place that needs to stop. We're not doing Anything wrong. And this is a trillion dollar disparity. Who's concerned about this amount of money?
- [12:21]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Well, the grant program. You're talking about the Strivers grant program. It was between 20, even the $10,000.
- [12:26]
Erin Simone
Grants, even the millions we've raised. This is a trillion dollar problem. The fact that there's even a concern about whether it's 50 million or 200 million or 300 million, it's just like, are you serious?
- [12:39]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Why are they wasting their time or energy?
- [12:41]
Erin Simone
And you're correct. The preliminary injunction. And that's one thing that people, I would say, get mixed up. And thank you for spelling it all out. We. On that day, the plaintiffs filed three motions against us. A temporary restraining order. I thought those were for stalkers, like somebody who you don't want to come near you, not that you put a TRO on somebody's business. So a temporary restraining order, a preliminary injunction on the grant program, and then the court case itself. We actually never went to court on the court case itself. We went to court on the preliminary injunction. The court case itself got dismissed, which is why we have victory in this space. So the preliminary injunction was for a grant program that actually was at its conclusion. We only had one Grant left for $20,000. We went to court, of course, because I was just not about to back down, because there's nothing wrong with this.
- [13:37]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
But what were the implications if you lost?
- [13:39]
Erin Simone
Bad case law. So the implications, had we lost, if this case got to the Supreme Court, which we've seen the plaintiff strategy for that before.
- [13:49]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Mm.
- [13:49]
Erin Simone
There would have been constitutional law flipped on its head that would have basically said, nobody can have marginalized funding. Nobody can have funding for women. Nobody can have funding for people of color. Nobody can do this. Period.
- [14:06]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Right. So in fact, the settlement ended up being a win.
- [14:09]
Erin Simone
Oh, completely. Because it would have been the same effect that took place for the colleges where it's now, as we see a federal situation and not even, I would say, bigger than a situation, we see the repercussions of what's taking place today in diversity, equity, and inclusion. It has run rampant.
- [14:28]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
And what are your feelings about what's happening these days?
- [14:31]
Erin Simone
We tried to warn everybody. That's my feelings. We tried to warn everybody. Everybody. I feel like when affirmative action got struck down at the colleges, everybody looked up and said, we don't believe it happened. So I said, we don't need to look up again and say, we don't believe this happened. And that's where we're at. We're looking up and people Are like, oh my gosh, I can't believe this is happening. Like, no. We try to warn everybody to the best of our abilities and our resources to let you know, if we don't get control of this, this is what's coming down the pipeline.
- [15:02]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
And then the risk is what?
- [15:05]
Erin Simone
So many people are losing funding. We see it now where agencies and programs are being dismantled. The list goes on and on. And mind you, we've seen that in just a very short duration.
- [15:15]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Yeah.
- [15:16]
Erin Simone
So I have no clue where it fully nets out to. So it's very concerning.
- [15:21]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Does anything in particular give you optimism right now?
- [15:24]
Erin Simone
Yes, I do believe that adversity always brings about opportunity. People are going to have to figure it out because they have to.
- [15:33]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Right.
- [15:33]
Erin Simone
There was a moment where we could have made the choice, but I still am hopeful for the improvement and the economic justice that needs to be served in this country.
- [15:43]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
And globally, speaking of optimism, Fearless Fund had a recent investment in a company called Zimmy. It's an E commerce platform. Significant, right? The platform itself seems to focus on the emerging markets.
- [15:56]
Erin Simone
Yeah, it's like the Amazon of Africa. I've had this experience myself of even just being in Africa trying to get luggage or goods or things back to the United States. And it's like this six week process and it's very expensive. So it's costly and time consuming. Yes. So when they pitched it, I was like, I know this problem and I know it well. And when you come out of any of the incubators, like the Y combinators or the techstars and they're products of those, and I said, these are where the unicorns are made in Africa or.
- [16:34]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
At the tech industry?
- [16:35]
Erin Simone
No, the incubators, Yes. I was like, okay, we've got something good here going on.
- [16:41]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Hmm. So what do you mean by that? Are you gonna start trying to incubate companies?
- [16:45]
Erin Simone
Oh, no, we use that for deal flow. So we partner with an incubator accelerator all the time just to see what deal flow they have coming up the pipeline because we know where we've seen the rock stars come from. And not that rock stars cannot come from there, but we do know that those people have definitely been equipp and they've been given resources and exposure in the industry.
- [17:04]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Okay. Yeah. Like for instance, Partake Foods was incubated out of the Chobani food incubator, which I don't know the actual name of it. Yeah, no, she's. She's terrific. So the thing that I wanted to mention about Zimmy Though, is obviously you mentioned Africa, and I'd love to have you talk about your own experience on the continent and the Ivory Coast. You are a queen.
- [17:26]
Erin Simone
Just. We let in the queen Da. Dawa en Cote d'ivoire. I'm the queen of Dawa in Cote d'ivoire.
- [17:32]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
That's amazing. How did this happen?
- [17:34]
Erin Simone
That might be a whole other podcast, but just literally, it takes just so long to get through the story, but very high level, I was not aware. And I've always done a lot of work on the continent and headed to the Ivory coast to go cut a ribbon on a school I built. That's what I'm thinking. I'm going for. Someone on our team says, erin, when you get there, a stylist is gonna meet you. And I was just like, a stylist for what? I was like, I'm going with my naturally curly hair. Leave me alone. And she was like, no, it's for wardrobe. And I'm like, yeah, I'm wearing jeans and a polo shirt with the school logo on it. What do you mean? And she was like, oh, gosh, you don't know? I was like, don't know what? She was like, ariane, they're crowning you queen.
- [18:17]
Ariane Simone
Oh, my God.
- [18:18]
Erin Simone
I got off the phone. I did like you. I laughed and got off the phone. I didn't take it as seriously as what was going on. I'm thinking, is this some type of award?
- [18:25]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Oh, no, I don't mean to diminish the.
- [18:26]
Erin Simone
No, no, no, no.
- [18:27]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
It's the fact that you didn't know it was happening.
- [18:29]
Erin Simone
Yeah. And I laughed, too, that day, because I was just like, oh, okay. And it wasn't until this formal email comes over talking about the queen is going to address her people. This is the order of ceremony.
- [18:41]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
My God, no pressure on that speech.
- [18:43]
Erin Simone
And I was like, order her. Address her people. I said, wait, the queen. I said, wait, I'm the queen. What is going on here? And the chief said he prayed to God and said it was me. And I do have Ivorian blood, so it's almost somewhat kind of scary.
- [18:56]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Yeah. So, yes, it's coming full circle.
- [18:59]
Erin Simone
Yes, A lot of things are right now. Yes, you definitely want.
- [19:05]
Diana Ransom
Hold on, hold on. Rosa Parks did yoga.
- [19:09]
Ariane Simone
Yes. According to Arian. Yes.
- [19:11]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
It's good for her.
- [19:11]
Ariane Simone
You know, you have to stay flexible as you age.
- [19:13]
Diana Ransom
Yes, absolutely.
- [19:15]
Ariane Simone
Yoga can be helpful. But I love the actual advice that she had given to Arian over the years. Just this idea of giving, you know, even if you're not like, sort of necessarily expecting something in return, but just the idea of being open to things and, you know, the world is mysterious, and theoretically you. You could actually receive potentially more than you give. And I think that idea of, like, just being willing to give and to see where that takes you, obviously it's karma, but it seems to have worked for Arian. You know, her fund has backed something, like, I think she said, 48 companies now. So there's Slutty Vegan, the Lip Bar, Partake Foods, the list goes on. It's pretty incredible. And lots of these companies are basically rocket ships right now.
- [19:55]
Diana Ransom
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love. I loved her talking about her family's connection to Rosa Parks. And I also really liked that she mentioned that there's something. Sometimes there's something intangible. Like, I feel like, you know, Silicon Valley is so into trying to quantify everything, and that's just not how I feel the world works always. Right, Right.
- [20:16]
Ariane Simone
Yeah. Sort of different ways to measure success. Is that the idea?
- [20:19]
Diana Ransom
Yeah, absolutely. Or not even measure success, just to know the intangible factors in how someone or something or an idea kind of exists and can benefit the world?
- [20:31]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
No, absolutely.
- [20:31]
Ariane Simone
There's, to a large degree, you know, as she was saying, you have to kind of go with your gut. Your gut instinct. You know, she meets with these people and she really kind of can tell that they're the right person to be backing. We'll get into more of that, of course, but Arian will also share her experience with the federal case against the Fearless foundation, which she views is actually a success. More on that when we come back from our break.
- [21:08]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
So do you have any sense for whether the Fearless Fund is going to invest in emerging markets going forward?
- [21:13]
Erin Simone
Oh, of course. So right now on our fund, too, we have 20% allocation to international. It's in our document.
- [21:21]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Closed on fundu.
- [21:22]
Erin Simone
Not yet. I already know. Everybody has asked.
- [21:25]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
I know. Breaking news.
- [21:28]
Erin Simone
Not yet. But yes, 20% does go to international. 80% does go to domestic. And that was something that was drawn up, actually. Oh, gosh. 2022. Yeah. We were going to do international investments.
- [21:44]
Ariane Simone
Great.
- [21:44]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
So this is obviously part of that.
- [21:46]
Erin Simone
Oh, yeah, it's one of them.
- [21:47]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
On the same day where you announced the settlement with the American alliance for Equal Rights.
- [21:52]
Ariane Simone
Yeah.
- [21:52]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Your fund also, that you were launching a debt fund. Now it's a $200 million debt fund. What is the point of this? Is it the idea of being able to extend the Runway for traditional venture capital?
- [22:03]
Erin Simone
About extending the Runway. We always wanted to deploy grants because we knew this is okay. Smaller amounts, free money. We always wanted to have debt, and then we always wanted to have venture. It's just this is the order in which things took place. With the loans, though, this can service not just our existing portfolio companies, but a different entrepreneur. Venture dollars are not for everybody, and it's very, very aggressive. So with venture dollars, we're looking for companies who scale and grow at a very rapid rate because we need them to exit in five to seven years after investment. Got it. When you receive a loan, you can be the $15 million annual reoccurring revenue company, meaning every year you're making 15 million and you fit this, you could be the company that makes $500,000 a year and you fit this, you can be the company who makes $50,000 and you actually fit this too. But those are not necessarily the ingredients we're looking for in venture. We're looking for high growth, scalable companies that are growing at a very rapid rate. And what debt allows you to do is grow at your own pace.
- [23:17]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
And are you looking for similar qualities in the people? You, of course, stand alone.
- [23:22]
Erin Simone
You definitely the strength of the company and the business. But as far as their ability to scale and grow at a rapid rate, that's not a requirement for debt.
- [23:30]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Okay.
- [23:30]
Erin Simone
It's just more so your ability to repay it back.
- [23:33]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Can you talk about the timing of the announcement? Knowing that you were revealing this bombshell of information to the public about having settled the case, did you mean for the timing to be perfectly like, did.
- [23:46]
Ariane Simone
You want good news, good news, good news, bad news?
- [23:48]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Potentially, I don't know.
- [23:49]
Erin Simone
Yes. Prior to being a venture capitalist, I ran a PR marketing firm. So I know a little thing or two. So, yes, that deal was actually closed before that. Yes. Okay.
- [23:59]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
So it was well timed. We talked about what you're optimistic about. We talked about what you're concerned about. Can we talk about your future? Where do you go from here? You were speaking at the NAACP convention last year and you said a lot about economic rights and the need for not ignoring the fact that there's this disparity. Do I sense a political move in your future?
- [24:19]
Erin Simone
Oh, gosh. I believe in advocacy. I believe in policy change. I don't have any desires at this moment. I don't. That's not necessarily in my heart. What's in my heart is to drive the impact and change to make this world a better place. I think that I'm able to get more done being able to work with both sides of the aisle versus Picking a side of the aisle and having opposition.
- [24:45]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Right.
- [24:46]
Erin Simone
So for me, as far as what the future looks like, it does look like doing more work in the advocacy space, which was actually my plan prior to getting sued. It's so crazy. I had told the staff as soon as we closed fund two, you guys said, I'm gonna be doing advocacy work because we need more fearless funds. We don't need just our fund, we need more fearless funds.
- [25:06]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Yeah.
- [25:07]
Erin Simone
So, yes, that is definitely in the future. I believe that more people should have the opportunity to do what we do and that what we do actually needs to look a little bit different.
- [25:17]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Stacy Brown Philpott is launching a fund that attempts to very familiar. She's gearing it toward diverse oriented companies too. Does hearing stories about these quote unquote, additional funds that are available to founders of color, does this also offer a sense of optimism?
- [25:34]
Erin Simone
Oh, it always does. And it's just needed work. And while it does offer a sense of optimism, where my focus is on is how do we just cure this disparity. I don't want her to have to do a fund for that reason. No different than at this point. I'm like, I shouldn't have to do a fund for this. It's the disparity that shouldn't exist in the first place. So that's just more so where my mind is at. But of course, I'm cheering from her. She's a fellow Detroiter. I remember meeting with her about our fund way before these announcements hit.
- [26:05]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Do you have any sense of what any of this means for the state of female founders today and the venture.
- [26:10]
Erin Simone
Capital climate, as far as our climate.
- [26:12]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Like, is it gonna get better? Is it gonna stay bad? What do we need to do to.
- [26:18]
Erin Simone
Get it to get well? We need it to get better. We need this to get better. I don't believe anything needing to stay bad. Yeah, I don't know if it can get much worse. It's not in a good place, you know what I mean? So when you hear the statistics about the 0.35% exactly, of 20% of the US population receiving that amount of funding, they're very disturbing. It's already at a fraction of a percent. So, I mean, how do you really get worse?
- [26:44]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Yeah, that's a fair point.
- [26:46]
Erin Simone
But as far as getting better, I think the route of affecting policy change and doing other things to make things better is more so where my mind is at and where I think the solution lies in order to increase that because another $50 million fund, though needed, it's a trillion dollar issue. So it's just like, okay, well, how many are these gonna happen for us to really get rid of this?
- [27:11]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
So are you actually saying that another fund isn't necessarily what's going to.
- [27:17]
Erin Simone
No, I think they are helpful.
- [27:18]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Yeah.
- [27:19]
Erin Simone
Like I said, it's more so. And I'm in the midst of doing so much writing. It's more so like treating the disease versus curing it. It's like you're going to the doctor, but you're not getting healed.
- [27:28]
Ariane Simone
Right. Okay, so is this gonna be the.
- [27:30]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Focus of your upcoming book?
- [27:32]
Ariane Simone
You just mentioned doing all this writing.
- [27:35]
Erin Simone
Maybe.
- [27:37]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Well, you mentioned a bit ago about basically not wanting to pick sides. You wanna be able to work with lawmakers on both sides of the aisle. Do you have any sense for how you're doing that now?
- [27:46]
Erin Simone
Yes, actually, we're having a think tank coming up with people of all different backgrounds, ideologies, political affiliations, because I want to establish a solution that can be digested for all. So when the court case was over, I was like, okay, now you guys, it's time for us to quit being on the defense. We need to get on the offense. And what does solution really look like in this space? And what does resolve look like that everybody of all backgrounds can actually come together on and digest? And that's what I mean by that. As far as what does fair funding look like that everybody can agree upon? And let's just go from there. I'm not trying to fight. Don't desire to fight. I will if I have to, as you have seen. But I want to focus my energy on coming up with something that is equitable and equal in the area of funding for all people and society that everybody can agree on with ease.
- [28:54]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
I assume you would invite legislators and.
- [28:57]
Erin Simone
Variety of all types of people. Yes.
- [28:59]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Okay. Are you finding that people are receptive to the idea? Do you think people on both sides of the aisle want to come up with a solution?
- [29:05]
Erin Simone
Yes, I think that especially in America, capitalism is viewed as good business.
- [29:13]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
I think you're right.
- [29:15]
Erin Simone
So, yes, I definitely think that it's going to be well received. I don't want to be caught up oh, this year. I don't want it to be surrounded by semantics. And it may have to be a series of them in order for us to get to this place. We may even have to showcase this or video it. But it's more so really coming together for a collective resolve. And I love the story that is in the book and the movie Best of Enemies, a story about a civil rights activist named Ann Atwater, and she actually converted one of the Ku Klux Klan members, and he got up and ripped up his membership card and everything. But it started off very rough. Yes. Oh, my gosh. They were in this meeting. They called them charrettes. And a charrette was basically a way to bring a solution to a problem, but from a collective standpoint. So you took people with polar opposite views and figure out, okay, how do we get them to come together to agree on issues? And they came together to agree. And after that, they would travel with their story, and they became so close that she even read his eulogy.
- [30:25]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
That's amazing. So you want to have that moment or affect some people to some degree?
- [30:30]
Erin Simone
Yes, and not just that moment. I would like to see that on a more global scale.
- [30:35]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Where does the name Fearless come from? Like, you've used it a lot. Fearless Fun, Fearless Foundation, Fearless magazine.
- [30:40]
Erin Simone
I guess I had come to some point of this aha moment that I just don't recall. But I do remember I've always viewed it as an ingredient to my success.
- [30:51]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Being fearless.
- [30:52]
Erin Simone
Yes.
- [30:53]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
I wondered if it was a motivator for you, because I've read studies that it ends up affecting women of color more than the rest of the population. But this idea of imposter syndrome, I'm not suggesting you have this, but I don't at all. Lots of people have it. You don't. You've never had it?
- [31:07]
Erin Simone
You've never felt that way? No, no. And not that I'm dismissing anybody's situation, and not that I'm trying to belittle about how anybody feels. I don't lean into terms like that. And if I'm being very frank, and I'm just gonna say it the way I would say it, I feel like this is a term that white men have come up to to try to make somebody feel like they didn't belong in their space. So I just don't adopt.
- [31:36]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Yeah. I don't know too many white men.
- [31:37]
Ariane Simone
Who feel like they've ever had imposter syndrome.
- [31:40]
Erin Simone
Yeah. I feel like it's a term that was come up with to try to make somebody feel that they didn't belong. I don't succumb to it. I don't adopt it. And no.
- [31:47]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Where do you think your fearlessness comes from?
- [31:50]
Erin Simone
I guess from many places. It comes from my faith. I'm a Christian woman. It comes from my upbringing. It comes from the city of Detroit that I grew up in. It comes from so many things I've been around affirming environments pretty much my entire life. And for anybody who does have those feelings or those insecurities and concerns, I would never, ever try to dismiss it. But I would want them to know that they have been given permission through birth to just take up space.
- [32:21]
Christine Ligorio Chavkin
Well, it's been a true pleasure to speak with you today. Thank you so much, Erin.
- [32:25]
Erin Simone
Thank you for having me. Thank you so much.
- [32:34]
Ariane Simone
I believe her. I believe that she is fearless.
- [32:37]
Diana Ransom
Well, okay, tell me this. So I just heard a story from our art director that when Arian was in the office, he heard a scream resound through the halls of Ink.
- [32:48]
Ariane Simone
Yes, she did. She did scream. So I. For whatever reason, I thought she knew she was on the COVID and she apparently didn't. So when I was like, hey, you know you're on the COVID right? She screamed, aww. And of course it was. Everybody in the office heard, and she.
- [33:01]
Diana Ransom
Saw the COVID She.
- [33:02]
Ariane Simone
Yeah, I took her to show her the COVID and she was thrilled. It's also great because, like, after such a crappy year of being sued in a federal court case, she is able to stop and see herself on the COVID of a magazine. This has got to be somewhat reassuring for her.
- [33:17]
Erin Simone
Yeah.
- [33:17]
Diana Ransom
And cathartic, right? Yeah.
- [33:19]
Ariane Simone
So, like, all this effort is not for nothing.
- [33:21]
Diana Ransom
Mm, absolutely. That's great. So what about the future for Arian?
- [33:25]
Ariane Simone
Well, she's staying optimistic. She's trying to close her second fearless fund now, and it's, you know, not gonna lie, it's not been easy, especially with this climate. But she is trying to stay positive and optimistic. And, you know, maybe that's the takeaway from our entire conversation is. Is to. For entrepreneurs out there, you know, dealing with uncertainty and. Or in the face of adversity, frankly, right now, is to sort of channel your inner Aryan Simone, and, you know, stay positive, stay fearless. Absolutely.
- [33:58]
Diana Ransom
That's all for this episode of from the Ground Up.
- [34:00]
Ariane Simone
Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your podcast platform of choice. Also, if you like this episode or have suggestions of what topics you'd like to hear about, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or reach out to us on all of Ink's social channels.
- [34:15]
Diana Ransom
From the Ground up is produced by Blake Odom and Avery Miles with Diana Ransom and myself, with help from Sam Gabauer and Hawa Ohtori. Editing by Matt Toder. Mix and sound design by Nicholas Torres. Our executive producer is Josh Christensen. Thanks for listening, and we will see you next week.
- [34:39]
Erin Simone
Panoply.