Build Your Own Door, With Reshma Saujani

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Build Your Own Door, With Reshma Saujani"

Podcast Information:

• Title: From the Ground Up
• Host/Author: Inc. Magazine
• Episode: Build Your Own Door, With Reshma Saujani
• Release Date: March 10, 2025
• Guests: Reshma Saujani, Kate Luzio (Founder & CEO of Luminary), Diana Ransom (Executive Editor, Inc.), Christine Ligorio-Chafkin (Editor-at-Large, Inc.)

---

1. Introduction and Light-hearted Beginnings (00:04 - 03:20)

The episode opens with hosts Diana Ransom and Christine Ligorio-Chafkin introducing their guest, Reshma Saujani, alongside new co-host Kate Luzio from Luminary. The conversation starts on a personal note, sharing teenage babysitting anecdotes:

• Reshma Saujani shares her early experiences:

  “I think I was 10 when I started babysitting the neighbor kids... Mr. Mandelbaum would walk me to my front door after every time I babysat, even though I was literally next door.”
  (00:29)

• Diana Ransom recounts a challenging babysitting moment:

  “... I realized like, this is just, I'm not doing good at this.”
  (01:44)

• Christine Ligorio-Chafkin describes her struggles with a Great Dane while babysitting:

  “I went through like three packs of hot dog buns and like I just finally just like, tried to put these kids to bed.”
  (02:24)

These stories set a relatable and engaging tone before delving into the episode's main themes.

2. Transition to Main Topics: Introduction of Reshma Saujani's Work (03:20 - 05:46)

The hosts formally introduce Reshma Saujani and her current initiatives:

• Diana Ransom introduces Kate Luzio and mentions Reshma’s new nonprofit:

  “...the founder of Girls who Code, Reshma Sojani. She is building herself second nonprofit, and it's called Moms First.”
  (03:41)

• Christine Ligorio-Chafkin highlights the focus of Moms First:

  “It focuses on making women's lives better in the workplace through paid family leave.”
  (03:59)

• Kate Luzio elaborates on her partnership with Moms First:

  “I'm part of Moms First. It's moms, it's caregivers, and it's anybody that is an ally of a mom.”
  (05:02)

3. The Birth and Evolution of Moms First (05:46 - 11:10)

Kate Luzio discusses the genesis of Moms First, previously known as the Marshall Plan for Moms:

• Kate Luzio reflects on the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic:

  “...I had to go back to work and take care of a newborn baby, homeschool my then 5-year-old, and save my nonprofit from being shut down.”
  (06:00)

• She emphasizes the structural challenges facing working mothers:

  “Structurally, we have never built society to make it work for working moms.”
  (07:29)

• Kate provides statistics on childcare issues:

  “In America, 40% of parents are in debt because of the cost of childcare. 50% of Americans live in a childcare desert.”
  (07:46)

• Discussion on the organizational goals of Moms First:

  “Our goal is to get childcare and paid leave passed... through innovation, thought leadership, and research.”
  (10:42)

4. Political and Social Climate Impacting Advocacy (11:10 - 23:30)

The conversation shifts to the broader political landscape and its effects on advocacy efforts:

• Christine contextualizes current political shifts:

  “We are at a very different moment politically... your work has never not been tied to advocacy.”
  (11:11)

• Kate expresses concern over gender relations and DEI backlash:

  “We have essentially presented as a zero-sum game. Women have to lose in order for men to win.”
  (12:01)

• Kate critiques the dismantling of DEI programs:

  “Mark Zuckerberg's interview... I gotta dismantle these programs. That's what he said.”
  (17:05)

• Diana and Christine explore the implications of these changes:

  “Companies are shading... there's a perceived pressure in addition to kind of a real one coming from the government.”
  (21:10)

5. Advocacy Strategies and the Role of Technology (23:30 - 31:35)

Kate Luzio outlines strategic approaches to advocacy and the integration of technology:

• Kate emphasizes the importance of maintaining momentum:

  “We need to continue to teach girls to code... ensure that women are given the opportunities they deserve.”
  (23:30)

• Introduction of AI tools to aid advocacy:

  “We launched a tool in partnership with OpenAI called Paid Leave Debt AI, which is to increase the uptake of paid leave claims.”
  (28:45)

• Kate discusses the potential of generative AI in solving societal issues:

  “We’re doing a research report with McKinsey that really shows the power of generative AI to solve really big problems in the benefits space.”
  (29:02)

6. Vision for the Future and Personal Insights (31:35 - 34:23)

The discussion delves into personal motivations and future goals:

• Kate Luzio introduces her new podcast “My Soul Called Midlife”:

  “We need a broader range... we need real advice and wisdom.”
  (31:10 - 31:35)

• Advice for Aspiring Entrepreneurs:

  “Just do it. Just start. Don't overthink it... you have to build it.”
  (33:37)

• Kate shares achievements of Girls Who Code:

  “670,000 through direct programming... more than a million have interacted with it online.”
  (34:22)

7. Conclusion and Key Takeaways (34:23 - 36:20)

The episode wraps up with final thoughts and inspirational messages:

• Christine Ligorio-Chafkin summarizes Reshma’s approach:

  “Spot the problem, start the conversation, and then mobilize a broad community for support.”
  (35:37)

• Final Inspirational Message:

  “Make your own door.”
  (34:22)

• Hosts encourage listeners to subscribe and engage:

  “Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your podcast platform of choice.”
  (35:37)

---

Notable Quotes:

• Reshma Saujani:

  “I was 10. But hey, they left me with their kids.”
  (00:15)

• Diana Ransom:

  “This is just, I'm not doing good at this.”
  (01:44)

• Christine Ligorio-Chafkin:

  “I have an A in the class, but I don’t know if I got those kids to eat dinner.”
  (03:13)

• Kate Luzio:

  “Women need to be sitting around the table thinking about what's the next innovation.”
  (30:08)

• Kate Luzio on Building Opportunities:

  “No one is going to open up the door. You have to build it.”
  (33:37)

---

Key Insights and Conclusions:

• Structural Barriers: The episode underscores the persistent structural challenges facing working mothers, particularly the high costs and limited availability of childcare, which impede women’s participation in the workforce.

• Advocacy and Activism: Reshma Saujani and Kate Luzio emphasize the importance of advocacy in driving policy changes, such as paid family leave and affordable childcare, highlighting the significant impact of nonprofit organizations in these areas.

• Political Climate: The discussion highlights the current political backlash against DEI initiatives, with significant implications for gender equality and women's advancement in the workplace.

• Technology as a Solution: The integration of AI and other technologies is presented as a promising avenue to address systemic issues, improve government services, and empower women through enhanced support systems.

• Empowerment and Entrepreneurship: The episode encourages women to take initiative, build their own opportunities, and lead movements for change, offering practical advice for aspiring female entrepreneurs.

• Future Directions: The conversation points to ongoing efforts to expand advocacy campaigns, leverage technology for social good, and foster inclusive environments that support women at all stages of their careers and lives.

This episode serves as an inspiring and informative guide for entrepreneurs and advocates looking to understand and address the multifaceted challenges faced by women in the workplace and beyond.

Transcript

[Diana Ransom]

Christine, Diana, we have a special guest today.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Yes, we do. For the next few episodes, we have a special co host. Joining us is Kate Luzio of Luminary.

[Kate Luzio]

Hi, guys.

[Reshma Saujani]

Good to be here.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Yeah, thanks for being here.

[Reshma Saujani]

Love it.

[Diana Ransom]

Always love to see you.

[Reshma Saujani]

Likewise.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Kate and Diana, let me ask you a question. Did you ever babysit as a teenager? And if so, tell me your weirdest babysitting story.

[Reshma Saujani]

I babysitted as a pre teenager, so I didn't even wait. That was like my first job outside of a lemonade stand. And I remember, I tell my niece and nephews now. I'm like, I think I was 10 when I started babysitting the neighbor kids. I don't really understand what those parents were doing, leaving me with their. And they weren't even that much younger. It was like I was 10 and there was like a six year old, the five year old and the four year old. But I do remember and I did this throughout our neighborhood. We lived in a cul de sac. The guy next door, the Mandelbaums, they literally lived next door. And even though they came home at like 9:30, he would, Mr. Mandelbaum, Mark, he would walk me to my front door after every time I babysat, even though I was literally next door.

[Diana Ransom]

Well, you were 10.

[Reshma Saujani]

I was 10. But hey, they left me with their kids.

[Kate Luzio]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Diana Ransom]

So I definitely babysat as a teenager too. And I wasn't very good at it. I remember. And speaking as a mother today, I'm like, it was not a good situation. There was a time where I was like out with the child and we were playing at a playground and she had to go to the bathroom and I'm like, okay, let's go home. And we didn't make it home in time. And she had to go so bad. I'm like, run.

[Kate Luzio]

And she's like running toward her home.

[Diana Ransom]

And I realized like, this is just, I'm not doing good at this.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

And you just see like urine streaming.

[Diana Ransom]

Yeah, it didn't. As one would expect, she didn't make it.

[Kate Luzio]

So.

[Reshma Saujani]

Yeah, she'll probably always remember that story as well.

[Diana Ransom]

And how about you, Christine?

[Reshma Saujani]

That's amazing.

[Unknown]

Oh, gosh.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

I also babysat at an age that I find remarkably young. My first job was for a pair of kids named Kyle and Kyleen. And I just remember they were, you know, I didn't know how to control them. And they were kicking a soccer ball in the house. And the next thing I know, the TV is playing.

[Kate Luzio]

Oh, no.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

And then my seventh grade math teacher, he Pulled me aside after class and asked me if I could babysit his kids. And he had like a baby and a 2 year old. And I thought, sure, of course. You know, I wanted to impress my math teacher. I didn't know he also had a Great Dane dog. So I was trying to cook food for these kids, and every time I'd turn around, the Great Dane would eat.

[Kate Luzio]

The food off the counter.

[Reshma Saujani]

Oh, my gosh.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

I went through like three packs of hot dog buns and like, I just finally just like, tried to put these kids to bed. They were darling and wonderful, but I had no business taking care of a baby as a second grader. I mean, excuse me, as a seventh grader.

[Reshma Saujani]

Yeah, but Christine, did you get the A in the class?

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah, I got the A.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

But I mean, I don't know if I got those kids to eat dinner. That dog ate a lot of food.

[Diana Ransom]

Well, at least the Great Dane was well fed.

[Kate Luzio]

There you go.

[Diana Ransom]

This is from the ground up. I'm Inc. Executive editor Diana Ransom.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

And I'm editor at large Christine Ligorio Chavkin. Today's episode build you'd own door.

[Diana Ransom]

We're here today with Kate Luzio, who's the founder and CEO of Luminary, a global professional education and networking platform.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Yes. Good to see you as always, Kate. Diana and Kate. I recently spoke with the founder of Girls who Code, Reshma Sojani. She is building herself second nonprofit, and it's called Moms First. It focuses on making women's lives better in the workplace through paid family leave. Do you two know Reshma?

[Diana Ransom]

Yes.

[Reshma Saujani]

Yes, we do and love her.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Yeah, absolutely. I've been following her for a long time, and it was. It was great to catch up and hear what she's been up to basically since the pandemic through her life and so many moms and women's and caretakers lives into a tempest, which is another kind of that we know midlife is for women.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

It's often viewed through our cultural narrative as not a time that's very sunny. And Reshma is committed to rewriting that narrative.

[Kate Luzio]

So.

[Diana Ransom]

Christine. Yeah, I mean, I remember talking with Reshma a couple of years ago when she was doing the whole Marshall Plan for Moms thing. You know, she had this editorial that made. She made big shock waves in the media about how we need to support women in paid family leave. And what's new with Moms First.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

So Moms first is what Marshall Plan for Moms has kind of been built into. She changed the name, and now it is a community of more than a million moms and growing and growing.

[Reshma Saujani]

I mean, I'm not even a mom, and I'm part of Moms First. It's moms, it's caregivers, and it's anybody that is an ally of a mom. And we're proud at luminary to partner with Moms First. I think what she is doing has the opportunity to change the game.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Yeah. And speaking to her, it was so encouraging that in this political moment, which is so trying for nonprofits and ventures like this that have a real political viewpoint and mission and want to change things from a government level that she is not. She's not discouraged by these headwinds. So, yeah, we get into it in, in our conversation a little bit. And you know, the importance of expanding childcare for all Americans, that's great.

[Diana Ransom]

Let's just dive in.

[Kate Luzio]

So I always say it's like, it's interesting, like when things happen and what are the consequences of things happening exactly at that time. And for me, like, this has never been more true about the birth of my son, my second son. So my son, Sai, was born January 25, 2020, and the world shut down the first week of March 2020. And I was on paternity leave for Girls who Code. And when the world shut down, I had to go back to work and take care of a newborn baby, homeschool my then 5 year old, and save my nonprofit from being shut down. And I saw kind of up close and personal, the impact of having a broken care structure and the impact of that on women's equality and women's participation. I saw this with my students because so many of them at September were supposed to be on their way to college, but because their mothers were essential workers, our nurses, our teachers, the people that kept our cities open. And because daycare centers were shut down and schools were closed, instead of going to college, my students had to stay home and take care of their sibling. And it was that. Aha. That even for me, like, as an activist, an author, a thought leader, like, I had focused so much of my energy on trying to convince women that you're good enough, you're smart enough, you're prepared enough, like, only if you got more confidence or you were brave, not perfect, you could actually achieve anything. And it has never been about our skill or our ability or our knowledge or our wisdom. It's always been about the fact that structurally, we have never built society to make it work for working moms. Yeah.

[Unknown]

And one of the first things, when that structure Breaks like it could be disastrous for women and children. And that's a thing that where the funding will dry up first or the consequences just societally seem to happen in that way. So what did you do next?

[Kate Luzio]

So to me, it was like, okay, well, what are the structures? And so the first structure is childcare. I can't work. As you just saw a minute ago, as my son barges into the room, you can't work without childcare. Right. And so right now in America, 40% of parents are in debt because of the cost of childcare. 50% of Americans live in a childcare desert. So childcare is both unavailable and unaffordable. We recently did a set of focus groups with Democratic and Republican moms. And it was so interesting to me that it didn't matter kind of where you lived, what your socioeconomic status was. The impact of the cost of childcare was huge on your life consequences. Right? So there was a woman there who had been in the workforce for seven years and then gets pregnant and basically looks at the cost of her childcare in her community and looks at what she was making. And her and her husband say, we're barely making ends meet. I guess it means you're gonna be at home. And she's sitting there now, her son, her daughter is, you know, three or four years old, and she wants to get back to work, but she can't because she can't afford it. And so you talk to moms who moved closer to their own mothers because they needed support. And so that dictated the professional choices that they made, going from being nurses to going to being Uber drivers. So, like childcare because women are paid less because we have a motherhood penalty, the lack of available, affordable childfare invariably affects women and their consequences. And we've never fixed it, and we refuse to fix it. And that is again, one of the structural changes that we need to fight for.

[Unknown]

Yeah, absolutely. That was the idea of Moms First. What was the practical organization of it?

[Kate Luzio]

You know, the idea of Moms First. When it started, it was called Marshall Plan for Moms. It was kind of a campaign. My God given gift, quite frankly, is like, one, I am a little fearless, right? And two, you know, I have an ability, I think, to communicate complex things very simply. And oftentimes, and this is kind of what's happening right now. I just launched a podcast called My so Called Midlife. Like, the things that are happening in my life right now are often windows to what's happening in a lot of women's lives. Right? And so for me, I'm like, this is crazy. This is hard. Like this is impossible. And I have resources. And it was hard for me. And so, you know, it started really as like a campaign we put, took a full page ad basically saying moms don't work for free. And like maybe fix childcare, maybe pass paid leave. And so it really started as a thought leadership, let's push the conversation. And it really exploded into a movement. And so right now we're a national organization. We have over 1.1 million plus members. We represent essentially America's mothers. And our goal is to get childcare and paid leave passed. And we do that, one, by mobilizing the private sector, two, by building grassroots campaigns, one, we're about to launch next week, and three, we do that both through kind of innovation, thought leadership and research.

[Unknown]

Yeah, and are you lobbying on the ground in Washington kind of way?

[Kate Luzio]

Well, we're a 501, so we are lobbying. But really, I think what we're really doing is kind of pushing the broader concepts. Right, so like fixed childcare and yes. These policies, child tax credits, the ctc, the cdctc. Right. These are great things to do. Universal childcare. Right. How do you fix the broken system Are good. Right. But most of, I think what we're doing at this moment is not specifically rallying around this particular policy, but fixing the system.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Unknown]

This is 2020. This was a moment in time when like so many companies and organizations and nonprofits and individuals were speaking up in a way that, that felt to me is louder than usual. Right. Like Black Lives Matter protests were happening and CEOs were signing letters and instituting DEI practices. These are things that oftentimes CEOs are really quiet about and decide, I'm not necessarily going to take a stand. And then they started taking a stand. Right. So today, 2025, we are at a very, very different moment politically. And I wanted to talk to you a little bit about that because your work has never not been tied to advocacy. And so I wanted to get kind of an overview from you about where are we and what is the state of organizational leadership right now and the voice that CEOs and executives have.

[Kate Luzio]

Well, I think we're in a very bad state when it comes to gender relations. We have essentially presented as a zero sum game. Women have to lose in order for men to win. And that is deeply upsetting, not just for women, but quite frankly for men, because I think they're being conned. And I think it's a conversation that quite frankly we need to have. Let me give it to you in the context of Girls who Code, because this is where I think I see it the most clearly. When I started Girls who Code, it was a call mainly right from our country saying, wait a minute, we don't have enough engineers and we gotta solve really big problems, cancer, you know, climate, you know, et cetera. And in order to do that, we need the entire population, our best and our brightest minds being brought to the table. And at that time, less than 0.4% of girls were interested in STEM. So we knew that we had to do something to change the way that we were educating girls and bringing them into STEM. Less than 18% of those that were graduating in computer science for women. And at that time, in 2010, 2011, the thing to remember is that it wasn't always that way. Thirty years ago, 40 years ago, 40% of the technology workforce was female. The world's first programmer was a woman, right? And so we had had a status quo which was no gender being turned off of fully participating, using their best and their brightest mind against solving our biggest problems. To then a culture where we were turning girls off and pushing them out of these fields to now recognizing we need to bring them back in. And that's really what was the birth of girls we code. And the point was to really, how do we get girls interested and excited in this? I raised about $100 million over 10 years, taught 670,000 girls to code in the United States over the past decade. We went from changing the graduation rates from like I told you, 18% at Carnegie Mellon, MIT, University of Illinois, Stanford, Michigan, you name it, to today that number being 40%. So in a decade, because of the investment that we made in partnership with all those DE&I programs, we changed the trajectory of what was possible for girls. And we created the opportunity of, quite frankly, women to run SpaceX, to be the leaders. You know, I mean, at every single one of these tech institutions, qualified, smart, prepared women, because again, it was because we had a lack of women who were qualified going into this, because culturally we had turned them off. To me, the complementary example of that is nursing teaching. Part of the reason why we have a huge problem with boys in schools and their interests in isolation and loneliness and suicide and depression and lower reading rates and math rates is because we don't have enough male teachers, we don't have enough role models. We need, quite frankly, a Boys who Teach program, right? And again, the goal would be it's important to have that representation. And so we Got to figure out how do we intervene, how do we create programs to increase that interest, because that is good for the nation. So just as we were making the progress, they dismantled it. And quite frankly, Krista, if you look at history, this is exactly what happens. Every time women get a little too much power, men start to feel threatened. The answer to that is to dismantle it. And so I want us to remember when we tell our daughters, right, why are only 18% of those graduating computer science women? I want us to remember, actually, we were here, like, it didn't have to be that way. So don't let it get twisted. This is not about meritocracy at all. Because again, and I think gender is an important lens to look through, right? 72% of America's valedictorians are girls. The vast majority who are graduating with bachelor's degrees are women. Same thing now in PhDs. So it's not that you're letting all these unqualified women come in and, oh, my God, they're actually more qualified than you. That's the problem. So to me, right now, as you're seeing this administration dismantle all of these DEI programs, and you're seeing companies really struggle, and some companies like JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs, Microsoft being like, nope, not doing it. And then companies like Meta saying, yep, we're going to Meta, who actually used to be a big sponsor of Girls who Code and were beneficiaries of exactly what I'm talking about. You have to ask why? One of the things I'm really thinking a lot about and actually appreciate Mark Zuckerberg's interview with Joe Rogan, because at least he was honest. And what he basically said, this is what I heard is like, I went through.

[Unknown]

But was he honest?

[Kate Luzio]

I'll tell you what I think he was honest about.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Kate Luzio]

He said, I'm going through my own masculinity crisis, My own personal masculinity crisis. I discover martial arts. And my own personal masculinity crisis is what made me realize that I gotta go dismantle these programs. So what he basically said is, I realized that in order for me to have more power, I gotta take power away from them. That's what he said. For men to win, women have to lose. And if you hear kind of what's the conversation right now, that's what it is. And it is so upsetting, not for me as a woman, it is upsetting for me as a mother of two sons, because all the problems that are happening right now are it's true loneliness epidemic. Suicide epidemic. Right. What we need to do in schools, we have to change the lives of boys and men in America. Absolutely. But the answer to that is, is not by making the lives of women worse. Don't fall for it.

[Diana Ransom]

So it's clear that Reshma has dedicated her life basically to helping women level up in their career at Girls who Code, or level up in life at Moms First. Now, can you give us a sense of the historical context here? What's been her impact?

[Reshma Saujani]

I mean, she started Girls who Code, right. So over a decade ago, more than a decade ago. And I think she ran for Congress. She lost. I think. I loved that she's written books about being brave. I love that she has her Failure Fridays on her Instagram because everything that she's done, from losing to winning to starting Girls who Code now morphing Marshall plans for Moms into Moms First. She's learned and she continues to learn. And I think one of the things that resonates with me so much in Moms first is that, yes, it's absolutely about moms and it's about the next generation, but that she is trying and succeeding at bringing men along with her and that this is not just a woman's problem. This is an all of us problem.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, we also talked about how some companies right now are sort of doing an about face that they used to kind of really talk about the importance of the values of family, the values of childcare and making a balanced life for working parents. And now they're not. You know, it's a little bit of a time where those things that they were talking a big game about are. Are seeming to have less of a place in the forefront of companies dialogues. So I think it's a fascinating moment, but she. She's not worried about it because she's got some plans, I guess.

[Diana Ransom]

I wonder to some degree, is she worried about her legacy being undone?

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Not at all, is what I kind of took away. Girls who Code is still going strong. It has this series of 13 books out there in the world. More than 600,000 people have gone through the program. And that's like the full Girls who Code program. More than a million have interacted with it online. So I don't think she's concerned about that. I do think that she's got some battles ahead in terms of the political atmosphere right now in terms of funding greater expansions of childcare, certainly.

[Reshma Saujani]

Yeah. And I think there is, while there's momentum, especially thanks to the Pandemic, and we talked about that earlier. I think with companies rolling back some of their initiatives around diversity, equity, inclusion, but that also includes working parents and a lot of the ERG support too. I think this is a bump in the road. Right. I think what she's doing with moms first, she's got a tremendous amount of support and I think the wind in her sales behind her. So I think she is someone that I love to just watch. Keep pushing forward.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Yeah, yeah. She does have some interesting ideas for how to use technology, including AI to help accelerate banned parental leave, though. So stay tuned for that after this break.

[Unknown]

The new Trump government is actually saying to government entities, dismantle dei. Government contractors will probably be affected. Corporations are feeling that push. Right. Certainly from certain lawsuits. And there's this vibe from Silicon Valley coming from Mark Zuckerberg. Now, how does that also culturally affect companies? There's a perceived pressure in addition to kind of a real one coming from the government.

[Kate Luzio]

I mean, it's a huge cultural issue. I've heard over and over again from my students that they're not getting job offers. Right. That they're being quite frankly treated differently.

[Unknown]

Wow.

[Kate Luzio]

You know what I mean? In these workplaces that they're not getting the same opportunities. And I think you probably, if we were in a place where we asked people to release their data and their numbers, you probably can see that already happening.

[Unknown]

Wow.

[Kate Luzio]

And I think it's a big about face. Right. Many of these companies were touting the importance of values. But here's the thing. I think it's not going to work. And let me tell you why I don't think it's going to work. Because like I said, it's interesting that to me that one of the first EOs done were to dismantle the DE and I. Yeah. So that to me makes me feel like, oh, that's a political move.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Kate Luzio]

And I think that's coming out of a political cycle where disaffected men were told, the reason why you're disaffected and unsatisfied and angry and unemployed is because of women and because of DE and I programs. And so now, great, get rid of all the DE and I programs, go for it. Is that gonna change your life and is that gonna change the lives of men? And this is where class comes in. Right. Because the culture wars are a way to mask the class wars. Maybe not hiring women are gonna benefit, but who are they gonna benefit? They're gonna benefit, quite frankly, well positioned men, but not the very men who feel disaffected by everything that's happening in their community. So I don't think it's gonna impact their lives. And I also think that there is a large set of men, quite frankly, like my husband, my board members, like, a lot of men I know that are in the Valley, that are sitting on the sidelines, who have daughters, who are like, what are you talking about? Like, this isn't a zero sum game, and we have to stop presenting it that way. So I think it's going to lead to a new conversation, which is a really important one that we need to have. So we have to keep pushing back.

[Unknown]

Yeah. And keep that conversation going. So tell me, from leading your organizations, like, what is the state of the conversation now and where do you push it to both for Girls who Code and for Moms First?

[Kate Luzio]

It's funny, I feel like it's like two different sides. Right. So I think on the Girls who Code side, I think we need to make sure that we continue to teach girls to code. Yeah. And that we do not shut the doors of opportunity. We don't shut the gates that we have pried open. Right. Because I, too, believe in a meritocracy. And these girls are fricking smart and they're qualified, and in fact, they're being discriminated against. Right. Because of their gender, not because of their potential. So I think that we have to continue to push. Right. On making sure that women are given the opportunities they deserve. On mom's first side, you know, I'm not going to spend the next four years just sitting on my hands. You know, President Trump, J.D. vance, Vice President Vance made a commitment on childcare, and both of them acknowledged childcare costs are too high. As you know, the Trump tax cuts are expiring in April, and there's a lot of conversation in Washington about what's going to be included, what's not going to be included. We just learned today that the House special committee essentially put on their list of things to be cut, the child care tax deduction cast. So there's a CDCTC. So every family gets to take a $600 deduction for their childcare cost, right?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Kate Luzio]

Even though the average childcare cost is like $11,000. So of all the things that they decide to cut, they picked this one. So we're launching a campaign next week to really push against that and to make sure not only is the CDCTC not cut, but that it's expanded. So, listen, I'm going to fight like hell with moms and families and our allies, to make sure that we do something about people's rising childcare costs, whether it is making sure you have an increased tax deduction or it's a bill or both.

[Unknown]

And do you think that that is the best hope for early change, especially in this first 100 days of the Trump presidency? You had that moment at the Economics Club of New York when you asked President Trump about his plans for affordable childcare. And he said something like, childcare is childcare. I mean, he hasn't seemed to be making a priority of it. So how do you push that issue? I mean, obviously Vice President Vance has made more of an issue of it, but how else do you push the issue?

[Kate Luzio]

I think he has promised to reduce cost and do something about inflation. And 40% of parents are in debt because the cost of childcare, like it is a number one rising cost and a major decision maker family. This is happening at the same time they're saying, hey, people, have more kids. Grow your families. That's really important. Those two things are inconsistent. Right. And I do believe that by the end, you know what President Trump said at the women's event that he spoke at later, you know, some of the comments he made at the MSG rally about dependent care, he, by the end of the campaign was very aligned that we need to reduce costs and give people support. And Vice President Vance went so far as to say, we gotta put money into this, which is new. So to me, I heard a commitment and that's what I'm gonna hold em to. And I think, though, it's so sneaky. Right. That again today. Yeah. That they caught it. So I think the point is, is that we gotta pay attention. Yeah. And we gotta hold em to it.

[Unknown]

I love your optimism since the election. Has your fundraising outlook changed? I'm so curious whether there's like a new burst of interest or whether it's like a little bit of a tense time for you.

[Kate Luzio]

No, I think there's a lot of interest. I think we're creating and making interest. I think there's a lot of interest, quite frankly, of these issues not to feel partisan. Right. To see.

[Unknown]

Well, they're not inherently partisan.

[Kate Luzio]

Childcare's not. We just did a survey recently, which we can share with you, and it's across the aisle. People want Congress to do something about it. So I think people want to look for ways for people to find ways to work together on the things that we can agree on and to get something done. That has been our position when we started from the beginning of Moms first. So I think people are looking to us to lead in this moment. And I was, you know, I was just internationally, I was at my kids vacation, I was in like the Cancun airport. And like in the matter of 30 minutes I had three different moms come up to me. One from Georgia, one from North Carolina, one from Newark, being like, one, thank you. But two, Reshma, you're not gonna give up, right? Like it's not done. Like we're gonna, we're gonna get this. And I was like, yeah, like people are depending on us not to fall into the partisanship of this moment and to just get it done. That is my job is to get something done.

[Unknown]

Fantastic. And just like that, you started a Cancun chapter.

[Kate Luzio]

Exactly.

[Unknown]

So despite, or maybe separate from all of this, you are known as a techno optimist, or I would call you one at least. Generative AI is in the center of the conversation in Silicon Valley. And you know, it seems to be VC's favorite topic. It's actually a conversation in the White House too. But it's known that some of these algorithms can have the same biases that we see in society that perpetuate inequality. But also generative AI can be used as a tool to help solve inequality. Is that true?

[Kate Luzio]

Absolutely. I mean, we launched a tool in partnership with OpenAI called Paid Leave Debt AI, which is to increase the uptake of paid leave claims. So you know, paid leave uptake in the nine states plus DC that offer it is as low as 2%.

[Unknown]

Oh, interesting.

[Kate Luzio]

So that's because, right. You go to the New York state website and you're like, this is freaking confusing. I don't know, am I eligible? How much money am I getting? And you give up. I mean, I know this happened to me when I was looking to see whether I was had student loan forgiveness. Government sucks at customer service. And quite frankly, where I think generative AI could play a huge role is improving government customer service. We've built a tool, quite frankly, that demonstrates that that's possible. And so we're expanding it this year to all 10 states. We're running campaigns in Colorado, California, New Jersey and New York. We're building a big consortium around this and we're doing a research report with McKinsey that's going to be coming out in a couple months that really shows the power of generative AI to solve really big problems in the benefits space. So yeah, I am an AI optimist. Here's the other thing. It's not going anywhere. And to me this is like, exactly what happened with Web 2.0. You know, I remember when I could not use my computer or the Internet in my law school class or at work. Wow. Right?

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Kate Luzio]

And. And so the same thing is happening with ChatGPT in many schools. And guess who's a rule follower? We are women. So there's already a gender gap. And so this. Exactly the same thing happened with the web. And so to me, it's like, I don't want to replicate that. There are so many issues. Like, I'm seeing this right now both kind of as an investor and as moms first really pulling together innovators, like the use of AI to really help reduce the amount of cognitive labor women do and give women back some of that time, you know, to really help families. Right. To help kids in schools. Right. Making sure that you kind of get over some of the lost years of COVID Things that, quite frankly, as a mom, I'm really stressed out about and that I spend a lot of time making sure that my child catches back up. Right. So again, women need to be sitting around the table thinking about what's the next innovation, quite frankly, that I want to see. And this is really what we're encouraging, you know, at Girls who Code. And. And I'm so excited that Moms first is really leading in this conversation about AI for good. And it's not just a bumper sticker saying, but it actually means something. And I also want to see this administration really take a big lead in that as well.

[Unknown]

Fantastic. What are your goals for this year in advocacy?

[Kate Luzio]

Well, listen, I launched a podcast called My Soul called Midlife, because I'm obsessed with midlife.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Yeah, I'm.

[Kate Luzio]

I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.

[Unknown]

Welcome to midlife.

[Kate Luzio]

Welcome to Midlife.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

I'm here.

[Kate Luzio]

We are here. But I realized as I got in my 40s and I started feeling like, is this it? Like, is everyday? Groundhog's Day is like, are my best years behind me that I realized that the way that we present midlife to women is that it's over. Right. I didn't know this, but, like, the biggest gender pay gap is for women over the age of 50. I have a lot of friends now who are approaching that age of 50, and they tell me I can't get that job. No VC partners looking to hire me. Like, I'm not getting that startup capital. Right. Like, it really shifts because many people see women that are in their mid-40s and approaching their 50s as past their prime. But one, because we have caregiving responsibilities. And two, because we're hitting menopause. You know, you see the same thing happen in health. I can't tell you how many times right. People are. My friends are like, is this anxiety or is this menopause? Right. And the point is, is like, there's just a lack of investment in health. I mean, nih, the least amount of funding goes into women's health over the age of 50. So as I've done this podcast and interviewed incredible people like Katanji Brown Jackson and Julia Louis Dreyfus and, you know, Chelsea Handler and like, this could be the best time of your life. It is the best time of your life. But we need a playbook. We need a sisterhood. We need to feel like it's not just us. And we need, like, real advice and wisdom. Like, should I get a divorce? And if I do, like, how do I think about my finances? You know what I mean? Is it true that I should take estrogen or progesterone or testosterone? Like, I mean, so, like, there are real conversations, you know, that women want to have, but there's not enough places to tell them, look, I know everyone's looking for the, like the next female Joe Rogan in the political space, but it is absolutely true that like most of the podcasts that are out there that are geared towards women are either about sex or makeup. And like, we need a broader range. Like we need podcasts like yours and podcasts like mine to really have these conversations.

[Unknown]

I agree. What's your best advice for a young woman today who is thinking, I'm going to start a company or I'm going to start a non profit. I want to make a change in this world.

[Kate Luzio]

Just do it. Just start. Don't overthink it. When I started Girls to Code, I was just trying to take 20 girls, put them in a classroom and teach them how to code. I was not trying to build a movement. And I always joke, like, if I applied to be CEO of Girls who Code, they never would have hired me. Like, no one is going to open up the door. You have to build it. And I've learned that twice as I've built to movement. When I started building moms first, I was not a childcare expert, I was not a paid leave expert. I was entering an entirely new terrain, something that I didn't know anything about, right. But I was bringing in expertise of how to build a fast paced movement to advocate for change and do it in a real way. And I knew how to do that. I think the thing is is like, you just have to take one step.

[Unknown]

I love that nobody's going to open the door.

[Kate Luzio]

Build it.

[Unknown]

I love that. How many girls and women have been through Girls who code today?

[Kate Luzio]

670,000. Wow. Through direct programming. That doesn't count the millions of people that we taught through our books and through our videos and through our programs.

[Unknown]

Reshma, thank you so much for being here today.

[Kate Luzio]

Thank you for having me.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

What I loved learning about Reshma is that she is such a true operator. She has this unique ability to identify a problem, whether in society or in her own personal life, and then she creates the solution for it. That's what she did with Girls who Code. That's what she's doing now with Moms. First, she's written the Playbook for Scaling Successful Nonprofits. Spot the problem, start the conversation, and then mobilize a broad community for support. I also enjoy the matter of not overthinking it. As Reshma said, no one would have hired her to be the CEO of Girls who Code. She said if no one is going to build the door for you, you have to build that door. For so many female founders that we have spoken to, there isn't really a Playbook for success or any kind of benchmarks for goals. In that case, do like Reshma. Make your own door.

[Unknown]

That's all for this episode of from the Ground Up.

[Diana Ransom]

Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your podcast platform of choice. Also, if you liked this episode or have suggestions for topics you'd like to hear about, reach out to us on inc's social channels and leave us a review where wherever you listen, from the.

[Unknown]

Ground up is produced by Avery Miles, Sam Gebauer and Hawa Ohtori, with Diana Ransom and myself. Lead producer is Blake Odom, editing by Matt Toder, mix and sound design by Nicholas Torres. Our executive producer is Josh Christensen. Thanks for listening. And special thanks to Kate Luzio and Luminary for collaborating on this episode.

[Reshma Saujani]

Panoply.