Podcast Summary: "Challenger Brands" (From the Ground Up, Inc. Magazine)

Date: September 8, 2025
Host: Allie Donaldson (Inc.)
Guests:

• Sarah Paiji Yoo (Founder & CEO, Blueland)
• Babba Rivera (Founder & CEO, Ceremonia)
• Justin Rosenberg (Founder & CEO, Honeygrow)

Overview

In this episode, Inc. staff reporter Allie Donaldson convenes a dynamic panel of founders from high-growth "challenger brands." The discussion delves into how these entrepreneurs have broken into crowded consumer markets, overcome resource constraints, and built trust and loyalty in industries dominated by goliaths. The guests—representing sustainable cleaning, clean hair care, and fast-casual food—share personal stories, marketing tactics, key learnings on consumer feedback, and perspectives on current headwinds like tariffs. The conversation is frank, energetic, and packed with insights for anyone building or scaling a consumer-facing venture.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Founders’ Origins & Brand Missions

Timestamps: 01:24–06:13

• Sarah Paiji Yoo (Blueland) explains the microplastic crisis that inspired her to create plastic-free, refillable cleaning products, reflecting on her journey from direct-to-consumer to national retail and the company’s mission to eliminate single-use plastics.

  “The idea for Blueland was born when I became a new mom and I discovered that the drinking water I was using... was riddled with microplastics.” (02:00)

• Babba Rivera (Ceremonia) shares her personal hair journey, criticizing beauty industry cycles that encourage dependency on damaging products and highlights the cultural pride at the core of her business.

  “The hair industry was really not designed to keep your hair healthy. It was this perfect cycle of making sure you keep your hair damaged so you come back for more.” (04:40)

• Justin Rosenberg (Honeygrow) brings a candid account of opening his first Philadelphia store, learning on the job, expanding rapidly, and then needing to recalibrate after early stumbles.

  “Started the company here in Philadelphia 2012... grew too quick, had to stop growth before we went out of business. And then... turn it around and open 35 locations since 2020.” (06:14)

2. Early Customer Acquisition & Building Community

Timestamps: 07:05–11:35

• Sarah (Blueland):

  • Emphasized perfecting product and positioning over paid marketing.
  • Early, game-changing exposure came from Shark Tank.

  “I had an opportunity to go on Shark Tank... that really was the first big way that the name Blueland got out there.” (08:07)

• Babba (Ceremonia):

  • Focused on grassroots community-building before launch, starting with WhatsApp groups and dinner parties.
  • Created a brand by and for women of color.

  “I started a WhatsApp group with people that I thought of as potential customers… my first marketing spend was just building this community...” (08:31)

• Justin (Honeygrow):

  • Initial location was as much luck as strategy, but brand name and philosophy emphasized being "honest" and "local."
  • Engaged in community fundraisers and local events to fit organically into each market.

  “When you go to a market, you want to be a part of the community in a very genuine way... People are smart, they’re going to know if we’re just here to make money.” (10:42)

3. Overcoming Routine Bias & Introducing New Behaviors

Timestamps: 11:35–15:27

• Babba:

  • Deliberately avoided launching with a standard shampoo; instead, made a differentiated scalp oil to gain trust and introduce the brand story.

  “Instead of asking people to change something they’re already doing, how can I enter the market from the side... Our first product was a scalp remedy oil... still one of our bestsellers.” (12:05)

• Justin:

  • Strategized Honeygrow to fill a unique market gap—mostly stir-fry, with salads—capturing both lunch and dinner segments, differentiating from countless salad-focused chains.

  “We’re 85% stir fry... The key has been the differentiation of the model.” (14:44)

4. The Strategic Power of Customer Reviews

Timestamps: 15:27–21:07

• Justin:

  • Reviews are scrutinized daily and discussed in weekly management calls.
  • Proactively encourages reviews to bolster reputation and identify improvement areas.

  “One of the things we talk about are customer reviews... I get customer reviews aggregated in a program... so critical.” (15:49)

• Sarah:

  • Blueland hit 100,000 five-star reviews—social proof is central.
  • Listening to reviews informed her product positioning; efficacy had to compete with conventional brands, not just natural ones.

  “Listening to the consumer is the most important thing you can be doing... cleaning is not a hobby, it’s a job to be done.” (17:13)

• Babba:

  • Product experience had to match or exceed conventional competitors—customers won’t compromise just for sustainability.

  “The customer is the hardest critic... they’re just thinking about you in comparison to what they have and know from home.” (19:57)

5. Unfair Advantages of Challenger Brands

Timestamps: 21:07–24:28

• Babba:

  • Mindset shift: focus on what you can do as a small company (speed, autonomy) rather than constraints.

  “If we have an idea and we like it, we can launch it. That is an unfair advantage.” (21:39)

• Sarah:

  • Authentic storytelling—media wants to cover passionate founders, not faceless conglomerates.

  “Who’s going to be out there talking about why they just launched a sustainable offshoot? ... It’s an advantage to be small. You’re only small once.” (22:25)

• Justin:

  • Being the “pirates” or “underdogs,” likening Honeygrow’s journey to Rocky fighting Drago.
  • Scrappiness and “grit” are key, and must be preserved even as companies grow.

  “I love being an underdog... There’s something really special about being the underdog... How do we maintain that grit, that nastiness?” (23:11)

6. The Founder Platform: To Lead in Public or Let the Brand Speak?

Timestamps: 24:28–27:17

• Justin:

  • Eschews the “personal brand” trend, focusing instead on developing the business and his team.

  “I want the business to speak for itself... If I got hit by a bus tomorrow, I want the company to thrive without me.” (25:05)

• Babba:

  • Finds value in being visible, especially for a mission-driven brand, but says it’s not a must for everyone.

  “You don’t need to do anything. You just need to lean into your own unfair advantages... But I think for me there is so much mission behind what I’m doing.” (26:15)

7. Navigating Tariffs and Supply Chain Uncertainty

Timestamps: 27:17–32:08

• Sarah:

  • Many products are US-made, but some ingredients and packaging components (from Europe, China) exposed to tariffs.
  • Careful supply chain diversification is underway, but rising scale has so far offset costs.

  “We are feeling the pinch from tariffs... But with the scale that’s come with incredible growth... net, net our costs are still going down even with the tariffs.” (27:50)

• Babba:

  • Most components are US-sourced, but natural ingredients from Latin America factor in.
  • Holding off on price increases until more clarity is available.

  “We are holding off on any price increases to see where this lands... So yeah, right now just taking it all in and doing analysis.” (29:00)

• Justin:

  • Some ingredients (fruits, flour) and packaging are imported, but effects are still limited.
  • Major frustration is policy unpredictability—hard to adapt supply chains when underlying rules might change again.

  “It feels like there’s still a lot of uncertainty... if this is coming from China, let’s put it to Cambodia. I don’t know if Cambodia suddenly will then be taxed 40%... There really is no certainty.” (30:32)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The idea for Blueland was born when I became a new mom and I discovered that the drinking water I was using to mix with my baby son’s formula was riddled with microplastics.”
  — Sarah Paiji Yoo (02:00)

• “The hair industry was really not designed to keep your hair healthy. It was this perfect cycle of making sure you keep your hair damaged so you come back for more.”
  — Babba Rivera (04:40)

• “I love being an underdog... There’s something really special about being the underdog.”
  — Justin Rosenberg (23:11)

• “If we have an idea and we like it, we can launch it. That is an unfair advantage.”
  — Babba Rivera (21:39)

• “You just need to lean into your own unfair advantages. And if being a public figure is not your jam, then that’s certainly not where you should be spending your time.”
  — Babba Rivera (26:15)

• “I want the business to speak for itself... If I got hit by a bus tomorrow, I want the company to thrive without me.”
  — Justin Rosenberg (25:05)

Takeaways for Founders & Builders

• True consumer understanding, constant iteration, and trusted word-of-mouth carry immense weight—sometimes more so than big budgets.
• Underdog organizations can leverage speed, authentic storytelling, and scrappiness as genuine competitive advantages, especially against industry giants.
• Public founder platforms can be valuable assets—but only when aligned with personal energy, the stage of the company, and mission authenticity.
• Customer reviews and candid feedback are critical input for product evolution, reputation, and growth.
• Current macro pressures such as tariffs require nimble supply chains and a relentless focus on controlling what you can.
• Community—whether homegrown, local, or digital—is a powerful lever for challenger brands and can be the difference between traction and obscurity.

Panel Wrap-Up

The episode highlights the hustle, creativity, and resilience required to push past entrenched giants as a challenger brand. The founders’ stories evidence that relentless customer obsession, mission-driven authenticity, and community-first thinking are where even the smallest players can "punch above their weight."

End of summary.