Finding Your Footing

Summary

Podcast Title: From the Ground Up
Host/Authors: Diana Ransom & Christine Lagorio-Chafkin
Episode: Finding Your Footing
Release Date: October 21, 2024

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Finding Your Footing," Inc. Magazine's From the Ground Up podcast delves deep into the remarkable growth story of Kizik, a revolutionary footwear company. Hosts Diana Ransom and Christine Lagorio-Chafkin engage in an insightful conversation with Monty Deer, the CEO of Kizik, uncovering the strategies, challenges, and innovations that propelled the company from inception to a formidable presence in the footwear industry.

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About Kizik and Monty Deer

Monty Deer joined Kizik in 2019, bringing a fresh perspective to a company rooted in innovative footwear design. Kizik, originally known as Hands Free Labs, specializes in creating shoes that eliminate the need to bend over and tie laces, catering not only to individuals with mobility challenges but also to the general population seeking convenience.

Notable Quote:
Diana Ransom asks, “Diana Christine what are the craziest shoes you've ever worn?” prompting a light-hearted start before delving into Kizik's story ([01:23]).

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Origin Story and Technology Development

The genesis of Kizik traces back to 2009 when founder Mike Pratt questioned the traditional design of shoes. Rejecting the necessity of bending down to tie laces, Pratt spearheaded the development of a hands-free shoe mechanism. This innovation involved a compressible and decompressive back of the shoe, allowing users to step in effortlessly.

Notable Quote:
Monty Deer explains, “The question was, why haven't we changed Shoes. Why do we have to reach down, bend over, tie our shoelaces? It could be better.” ([05:34]).

Developed over several years, Kizik amassed over 200 patents, ensuring a robust intellectual property portfolio. The transition from Hands Free Labs to Kizik marked a strategic shift towards creating a consumer-facing brand that emphasizes both functionality and style.

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Growth Strategy and Marketing

Kizik's exponential growth, highlighted by a three-year growth rate exceeding 1,000% and a 2023 revenue surpassing $100 million, is attributed to several strategic pivots:

1. Market Expansion: Initially targeting higher-priced, leather shoes for men, Kizik identified the broader athleisure market as a more lucrative avenue. This shift aligned with changing consumer preferences towards casual and versatile footwear.

2. Direct-to-Consumer (DTC) Focus: Transitioning to a DTC model ahead of the pandemic allowed Kizik to capitalize on the surge in online shopping. This move was fortuitous, positioning the company to "crush" growth during a period when many traditional retail channels were disrupted.

3. Innovative Marketing: Utilizing video content to demonstrate the hands-free feature served as a pivotal marketing tool. Monty Deer notes, “We were solving a problem that they hadn't realized they even had. So they were watching this aha moment on video online.” ([10:39]).

4. Leveraging Social Media: Kizik's most significant customer acquisition came through Meta’s platforms—Facebook and Instagram—complemented by strong word-of-mouth referrals and organic search growth.

Notable Quote:
Monty Deer states, “We created some content to show what it looked like to step into a pair of Kizik shoes, and those were the keys that brought everything together and made us really turn up and to the right so fast.” ([05:36]).

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Managing Rapid Growth and Company Culture

Kizik's meteoric rise necessitated robust internal growth strategies to maintain agility and innovation:

1. Team Expansion: Growing from 20 to approximately 120 employees within three years, Kizik strategically hired specialists in merchandising, product design, international sales, and more, while maintaining a core of creative, non-shoemaker talent.

2. Adaptability: The pandemic-induced shift required Kizik to abandon wholesale in favor of a DTC model swiftly. Monty Deer recounts a challenging period when 5,000 pairs destined for boutique stores were left unsold due to closures, forcing the company to pivot and rebuild its brand online ([33:13]).

3. Culture of Innovation: Emphasizing the value of diverse perspectives, Kizik fosters a culture where both new and seasoned employees contribute to the company's vision, ensuring that rapid growth does not compromise the company's innovative edge.

Notable Quote:
Monty Deer shares, “Appreciating what we can do together... helps us build a culture that can keep up with our growth.” ([35:39]).

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Future Vision and Expansion

Looking ahead, Kizik plans significant expansion both domestically and internationally:

1. Retail Expansion: Aiming to be present in close to 1,000 retail doors by year-end, Kizik is not only expanding through wholesale partnerships but also establishing its own retail stores to enhance brand presence.

2. International Markets: Recognizing the cultural practice of removing shoes in countries like Japan and those in the Middle East, Kizik is forging distribution agreements to tap into these vast markets.

3. Product Diversification: Expanding beyond adult athleisure shoes, Kizik is bolstering its offerings for children and first responders, addressing specific needs with tailored products.

4. Licensing Deals: Collaborations with major brands like Nike and first responder-focused companies underline Kizik's commitment to spreading hands-free technology across various sectors.

Notable Quote:
Monty Deer articulates, “Few of us wear shoes, and tying our shoes causes a friction point for every one of us... we really like it as consumers when those friction points can be taken away.” ([06:20]).

---

Conclusion

Monty Deer's leadership has been instrumental in navigating Kizik through unprecedented growth, technological innovation, and market expansion. The company's ability to remain nimble, adapt to changing circumstances, and maintain a strong culture has been pivotal in its success. As Kizik continues to push the boundaries of footwear technology, its vision remains clear: to make every step effortless for consumers worldwide.

Final Insights:
Diana Ransom encapsulates the episode's essence by highlighting Kizik's adaptability and consumer-centric approach as key drivers of their success. “Being nimble is maybe the first step to fast growth,” she concludes ([38:30]).

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Notable Highlights with Timestamps

• [05:34] Monty Deer discusses the inception of hands-free shoe technology.
• [10:39] Importance of video content in Kizik's marketing strategy.
• [14:56] Discussion on adopting technology and managing rapid growth challenges.
• [20:40] Monty Deer shares insights on building a specialized team without prior footwear experience.
• [33:13] The pivotal pivot from wholesale to DTC during the pandemic.
• [35:39] Strategies for maintaining company culture amid fast growth.
• [38:30] Hosts summarize the key takeaways on Kizik's adaptability and growth.

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Key Takeaways:

• Innovation: Kizik's hands-free technology addresses a universal friction point, showcasing the power of thoughtful innovation.

• Adaptability: Swift strategic pivots, especially during unforeseen challenges like the pandemic, are crucial for sustained growth.

• Culture: Building and maintaining a strong, adaptable company culture enables teams to navigate rapid scaling effectively.

• Market Insight: Understanding and leveraging diverse markets, both domestically and internationally, can exponentially increase a company's reach and impact.

For entrepreneurs and business enthusiasts, Kizik's journey underscores the importance of innovation, adaptability, and strategic growth in building a successful and enduring brand.

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This summary encapsulates the main content of the "Finding Your Footing" episode, focusing on Monty Deer's interview about Kizik. Advertisements, intros, outros, and unrelated segments have been excluded to maintain clarity and relevance.

Transcript

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[Diana Ransom]

Diana Christine what are the craziest shoes you've ever worn?

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

So I'm not a big crazy shoe person. Like, I'll be honest, yeah, I could get that. But if I had to say my craziest I went to Catholic school, and at Catholic school you could wear whatever shoes you wanted to because you had to wear the uniform. But you could do what you want.

[Diana Ransom]

An inch they gave you of I'm.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Gonna be a rebel and I'm gonna wear platform shoes. And I nearly fell down the stairs and almost killed myself wearing these platform shoes. But it felt great to be me. This is me. This is from the ground up. I'm Inc. Executive Editor Diana Ransom, and.

[Diana Ransom]

I'm Editor at Large Christine Ligorio Chavkin. Today's episode Finding youg Foot so, Diana, for today's episode, I spoke with Monty Deer, who is the CEO of Kizik. How familiar are you with Kizik?

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

So I know it's a shoe company, and they were on the Inc. 5000 this year. They make delightful kids shoes, for instance. That's about where I am with Kizzik.

[Diana Ransom]

So yeah, kids love Kizik. But in talking with Monty, I learned that it's not just kids. I think their primary market right now is adults, and not even just older adults. So the Kizik product is actually something born out of a company that was first called Hands Free Labs. And Hands Free Labs made a technology, actually multiple technologies that allow people to step directly into sneakers. The back of the shoe compresses and then pops back up once your foot is in it. They've used metal, they've used kind of plastic, springy material on the exterior of a tennis shoe. And they have multiple patents that they had been licensing. They had been selling shoes wholesale until the pandemic hit. And they had a fantastic and fascinating growth story and transition into the brand Kizik at that point, what it sounds.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Like Kizik is really helpful for people who can't bend over. Right. And this is why I think the kids love it, is because they can't tie their shoes necessarily. So the idea of just slipping your foot into the shoe is kind of brilliant. So I could see why they take off. But what happened after the pandemic?

[Diana Ransom]

Yeah, and I agree with you too. But honestly, like adults without mobility issues are like a huge market for them too. It is simply a matter of convenience and that's stepping in, stepping out of the shoe. But yeah, after the pandemic, I mean, obviously they've seen just remarkable growth. Very recently, 2023 revenue was over $100 million. The company's three year growth rate was over 1,000%. And they landed at number 407 on this year's Inc. 5000 list.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

That's super impressive. But how did they, like, how did they find their.

[Diana Ransom]

Wow.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

That was like the scene in the movie where you actually say the name of the movie in the movie.

[Diana Ransom]

I love it. Well, let me let Monty explain that to you. I started the conversation by asking him what his secret was to unlocking fast growth.

[Monty Deer]

I would say our pivotal moment for unlocking the growth and the really quick growth was when we decided to make a hands free shoe, which is our baby. Right. We decided to make a hands free shoe that could work for anyone and make it at a price that we could sell online. When we brought those together and we created some content to show what it looked like to step into a pair of kizzicks, I would say those price point, a shoe that were an athleisure shoe that worked for everyone and content, that showed us stepping into shoes, those were the keys that brought everything together and made us really turn up and to the right so fast.

[Diana Ransom]

This idea of the actual technology, the shoe that you can step into had been in the works for years and years and years. Right. This wasn't a recent innovation.

[Monty Deer]

That's right. Our founder, Mike Pratt, he asked the big question as long ago as 2009, 2010. And the question was, why haven't we changed Shoes. Why do we have to reach down, bend over, tie our shoelaces? It could be better. He started working on it, then started thinking about it. And his way of thinking about it was really not aimed at any particular customer. It was just the fact that we all wear shoes, and tying our shoes causes a friction point for every one of us. And as much as we don't think about it, we really like it as consumers when those friction points can be taken away.

[Diana Ransom]

Yeah, no, it obviously makes something easier. And you mentioned something interesting there, which is that I, as a mom of little kids, as a daughter of aging parents, I can see these obvious people who have trouble either reaching their feet to tie a shoe or with the mechanics of tying a shoe. But those folks were not your only consumers once you did launch this. Right. They were not even your primary consumers, necessarily.

[Monty Deer]

That is correct. Here's the way I say it. Kizziks are enhanced. Reshoes are faster and more convenient for everyone. But they are life changing for some, and life changing. I mean, we think that kids don't need to learn how to tie their shoes. Again, it used to be a rite of passage, and why should it be? I mean, they don't learn how to roll up a car window anymore. They push the automatic button, and that's the way it's going to be. But also, when you, when you think about those who are aging or those who are differently abled, it's such a big life changer.

[Diana Ransom]

Let's get back to that in a little bit. I want to talk more about the origin story of kizzik. So you mentioned that 2009 or so, Mike started thinking about this idea. He was working at another company. What was the technical, like, development process? I know that you guys have over 200 patents now and all this intellectual property, but how did that process go and the development actually go through. Developed through the years?

[Monty Deer]

One thing that is worth thinking about and I think truly innovative companies see this challenge. Mike worked at a bag company that he owned, and when he looked around, some of his partners were saying, mike, why are you working on shoes? We're a bag company. So that was a point that had to be overcome early. But what he did was really smart. He found a couple of great industrial designers within his company, ogeo, and they started working on prototypes. And it went slowly at first, and there were some naysayers, but it probably took three or four years, at the rate they were moving to build the first shoe, file the first couple of patents. And so by about 2015, Mike knew we are going to do this. This works. We can see it working well enough. You know, no factory had ever made a hands free shoe before. He went to Asia several times, in fact. That was one of the ways that I met Mike. I was his attorney. I hopped on a plane with him. We went to Asia. We had to figure out the logistics of making a shoe type that had never been made before. The commercialization step, once we had a factory in place, happened across 2016 and 17. And Kizzik sold its first shoes in November of 17.

[Diana Ransom]

And you sold them online? It was the direct to consumer, actually.

[Monty Deer]

We started first in just a few boutique shoe stores.

[Diana Ransom]

Oh, okay.

[Monty Deer]

We made the hard switch to a DTC focus about six months before COVID That was fortunate because.

[Diana Ransom]

Ooh, very fortunate. Yeah. But what was the sales trajectory from there? Did you see that take off right away or did that take hard work?

[Monty Deer]

It took a lot of hard work. The first maybe year and a half of sales. Kizzik was aimed at a higher price point, somewhere in the $180 range. Leather shoes aimed mostly at men. And we realized in early 2019, we've got to do this a little bit differently if we're going to succeed online. So we went toward Athleisure. It wasn't until about 18 months later that our sales started to really move up and to the right and then into the pandemic we we just crushed.

[Diana Ransom]

Was there a marketing strategy that helped? That helped. Once you made that kind of pivot into Athleisure, what kind of lit the fire under that?

[Monty Deer]

The marketing strategy that worked best for us was to show with video online, to step in. We call it our aha moment. We were solving a problem that they hadn't realized they even had. So they were watching this aha moment on video online. And so many reviews after purchase were saying, we wondered if this is a gimmick, if it really worked. And then the review would say it absolutely works.

[Diana Ransom]

So seeing that this is a podcast, can you describe that video that describe the moment where the heel sort of compresses and how it works?

[Monty Deer]

Sure. The way it works.

[Diana Ransom]

Did you just take that off your foot?

[Monty Deer]

I took it off my foot. It's hard to describe without showing it to you.

[Diana Ransom]

All right. It's a clean white sneaker with an interesting plastic band around the back. What do you call that?

[Monty Deer]

We call it a cage.

[Diana Ransom]

Okay.

[Monty Deer]

And the reason we have the cage on the back of the shoe is because it compresses. And so when a foot goes into the shoe the way the person's weight very simply, very easily presses on the back of the shoe, it creates space for the foot to go in. And once the foot is in the bottom of the shoe, the back of the heel decompresses and pops right up around the heel and the shoe is all the way on.

[Diana Ransom]

That's fantastic. I mean, I feel like this is the way that I wreck a lot of my sneakers, is by using my feet to use one foot to get the other one in or step out of it. Right. That plastic, which at one point was a titanium piece that you guys were using. Right. This plastic compresses and then pops right back up and can't get damaged.

[Monty Deer]

And we do it in five or six different ways, and we have the ability to do it in even more ways. But we run compression tests, wear tests, and we will press the back of the shoe down 30,000 times and make sure that it keeps working time after time.

[Diana Ransom]

So have you ever broken one? I mean, can you break that back plastic piece?

[Monty Deer]

Well, we broke a lot in testing, but then we got the materials right, so that we can make the guarantee that the rest of the shoes and the materials on the shoes will wear out before the hands free technical component will.

[Diana Ransom]

Which platform was your biggest in terms of finding new customers? Was it Instagram? TikTok? Facebook?

[Monty Deer]

Well, we've used, and we do currently use all but our biggest growth was on meta with Facebook and Instagram.

[Diana Ransom]

And word of mouth is big for you too, right?

[Monty Deer]

So big for us. And we could see the organic search growing just even from the beginning. I mean, I can remember Christine, when we were looking online and realizing, hey, there are 13 people online now and now it's thousands. Right. And we love those organic searches because that's the price is right on the marketing cost.

[Diana Ransom]

So let's talk about your growth strategy a little more. You got into D2C right before the pandemic, saw this amazing growth through online marketing, but now you're going back into retail aggressively. I read that you're looking to be in 700 stores by year end, is that right?

[Monty Deer]

That's right. It'll actually be closer to a thousand doors before the end of the year.

[Diana Ransom]

Yeah. Wow.

[Monty Deer]

Those are wholesale accounts. And so we have new partners that are welcoming us and we really appreciate that they're learning how to tell our kizzik story. But we are also opening our own retail stores. We'll have six open by the end of the year.

[Diana Ransom]

And also, I mean, you've experienced such ridiculously fast growth over the recent Years that is this kind of a play toward more predictable consumer behavior or being able to understand the demand and the surges in it better.

[Monty Deer]

Yes. We expected to have to teach our customers about a new technology, about a solution to a problem that they didn't know they had. That's starting to happen. Just search generally for slip on shoes. Hands Free Shoes is coming around. But, yes, we've got a ways to go before every consumer knows that Hands Free Shoes are a possibility.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

You said something really fascinating. Let's stop there for a second and talk about it a little bit.

[Steve Marsh]

Adopting technology.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Because I think that it's probably something that resonates with a lot of entrepreneurs. Monty talked about Kizzik's fast growth, but oftentimes when you hit that fast growth, things start to break down. Did Kizzik experience that too?

[Diana Ransom]

Yeah. Well, as you could hear from his answer, they're planning on Kizzix being in close to a thousand stores by the end of the year. So that kind of moment is sort of upon them. And I did ask him about that. You know, it's fascinating because just a few years ago, they were doing like 4 or 5 million in sales, and now it's 100 million.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

So that's interesting. So they're growing so fast. I remember I was talking with Theryn Levy from Box. He was sort of describing what kind of shape a company takes. Like, even if you're thinking like, I'm going to, I'm thinking five steps ahead. My company is 30 people now, but I want it to be much bigger. Even if you're thinking that, it ends up happening where you hit that hockey stick growth and your company starts to surge. And even if you're thinking five steps ahead, you don't really hit the surge perfectly. So things start to break down. And then what happens if you have 3,000 employees and the revenue surges off the charts? You know, it's just you build a company to be nimble, I guess.

[Diana Ransom]

Right? You build a company to be nimble, and then you need hr, and then you need different trainings internally, and then you need, you know, compliance, and you hit 100 employees, you think, okay, we have all of the official things going, and then once it's 300. Yeah, you need a whole nother layer of infrastructure. Right.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Well, wait, so when do you get HR? Cause I often feel like. Or from what I understand, 30.

[Diana Ransom]

Right?

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Yeah. Employee or smaller companies tend to get HR too late. So I'm often wondering, like, when do you bring in that next level? When do companies think like this is the time where I need to grow. This is the time where I need to professionalize. Right?

[Diana Ransom]

And you also think that those sort of structures are the antithesis of fast growth, right? Like when does too much management bog you down?

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Yeah, absolutely. Probably they would say always.

[Diana Ransom]

So I wanted to know how Kizzik specifically prepared for this kind of extreme growth. After a quick break, Monty walks me through how they handled it and his own learning curve. Coming to the company with no experience in shoe wear at all. None.

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[Diana Ransom]

I want to talk about what, what happened inside the company over the last couple years too. You've been there since 2019. When a company experiences this kind of fast growth and let me just put it in perspect, like a few years ago you were doing four or five million dollars in sales and now you're doing more than 100 million in sales. CEOs that I talked to talk about this concept that every time a company triples in size, everything breaks. So tell me what happened inside Kizik in terms of this growth. How did you prepare for it if you did? Or was it just like react fast and then follow up on that growth by growing internally? How was the process for you as a company and you as a leader and manager?

[Monty Deer]

Well, I was an attorney before I came to Kisik and so I had never made a shoe, never thought about making a shoe. And when I got to Kizik five years ago, it was a group of innovative, creative non shoemakers. And honestly they weren't afraid, they weren't inhibited. And I think that's part of why we did early in my tenure hire a couple of shoemakers. That was helpful. And over time as we've started to build our team, we've brought on specialists in merchandising, in product, in international sales and most recently in design. And that's we're just building our team from this core of non shoemakers who aren't afraid to make great shoes that are hands free free. And we're bringing in the experts that can help us put the finishing touches on both shoes and how we get Kizzix to the people.

[Diana Ransom]

How fast were you growing in headcount? What was your biggest expansion year?

[Monty Deer]

Oh goodness. It has probably been this last year, but over that three year period where we've grown more than a thousand percent that for which we're recognized in Inc. We probably grew from 20 employees to 120.

[Diana Ransom]

And is that the number currently?

[Monty Deer]

It's about 120, yeah.

[Diana Ransom]

And are most folks are based in Utah?

[Monty Deer]

Yes, but we are learning how to work remotely because when you go and hire experts in different areas, most shoe experts are in Portland or Boston and oddly not in Linden, Utah. But we're making it work.

[Diana Ransom]

You got to build up Lynden, Utah too, right?

[Monty Deer]

We've said that Lynden is the up and coming footwear center of the world.

[Diana Ransom]

But there you go. There you go. I mean Utah is not the first place you think of in terms of startup culture, but it definitely has one. And how do you see Kizzik fitting into that?

[Monty Deer]

Oh, we love the culture here in Utah because mostly it's SaaS based software companies that are growing here. But you know who some of our biggest fans are? Those companies that are growing their software companies fast. They're early adopters. They love to see Utah companies build. And so we have a bastion of growth and friends here in Utah and those who come from outside of Utah to, even when they fly in, they can just feel the entrepreneurship here in Utah. So we love being here and we will be here. I don't see us moving ever.

[Diana Ransom]

Yeah, that's great. But you are thinking about international expansion, is that right?

[Monty Deer]

That's right. Think about this. In the United States, some of us take off our shoes when we go in and out of homes and in and out of the office. There are literally billions of people who do that every single time. It's just a big part of their culture. For example, in Asia or the Middle east. And we cannot wait to get our product there. And it's happening. We just signed, for example, a distribution agreement with friends in the distribution partner in Japan and that will be a great market for us.

[Diana Ransom]

Oh, neat. So let me ask you, are you the indoor shoe or the outdoor shoe.

[Monty Deer]

Though you just have one for indoor and one for outdoor?

[Diana Ransom]

Both. There you go.

[Monty Deer]

I think what, what our customers tell us is we love having a pair of kizziks at the door so that we can be without shoes inside and just step quickly, immediately into them when our hands are full of trash or a dog leash or a baby's hand.

[Diana Ransom]

What's the fastest growing sales segment for you guys? Is it just across the board or. I just want to get a feel for how kids products are growing and how that's doing for you Kids has.

[Monty Deer]

Been great growth for us. We only launch kids. We're on our third back to school season, so we've only had kids shoes out. It's a great product market fit because mothers and fathers love to. It just makes life easier for them. However, what we're learning is selling kids shoes online is a little more challenging because if you, Christine, you know your size. If you see a, if you see a new Kizzik shoe that you want, you just push the button and you buy the shoe. If you want to buy one for. If I want to buy a pair for my granddaughter, I get ready to order and I think, wait a minute, I wonder which color she would like. Wait a minute, I wonder what size she wears. So we're finding that kids shoes sell Best in person.

[Diana Ransom]

That's so smart. Now kids, sock and shoe sizes are like one of the most baffling things to handle as a parent.

[Monty Deer]

Yeah.

[Diana Ransom]

I mean, and as a grandparent. It's just they're constantly changing. They're not linear. It's wild and difficult.

[Monty Deer]

You asked what has grown most quick, quickly. I'll tell you this. When our growth started, we were selling probably 70% men's shoes. Over the last four years, we have consistently moved more and more and more toward away from men and toward women. And our split now in adult sizes is about 65% women, 35% men.

[Diana Ransom]

That's so interesting.

[Monty Deer]

And that works for us because women buy more shoes. They also communicate better word of mouth.

[Diana Ransom]

I love that you're doing UK launch as well.

[Monty Deer]

Our UK launch will be in February.

[Diana Ransom]

Oh great. Fantastic. Congratulations.

[Monty Deer]

Thank you.

[Diana Ransom]

So let's go back to when you, you joined the team in 2019 as CEO. I want to hear like, where was the company at at that point? That was right before you did the big D2C pivot. And where was your headspace at? You thought, oh sure, yeah, this silly sneaker can take on Nike.

[Monty Deer]

I could see the promise.

[Diana Ransom]

Yeah.

[Monty Deer]

I had been Mike's and Kizzik's lawyer for a couple of years by then, by 2019, and a couple of things happened. There wasn't much growth yet, but there was enough to have proven the concept that the shoe would work and that people liked it when they bought it and gave reviews. But I would say one of the ways that I got involved all day long for several months was when Nike came around and decided, and I was a big part of that process, decided we would like to make a financial investment in Kizik. And we also at Nike would like to license Kizzik's Hands Free technologies. And that was very validating for me, frankly. It was validating for everyone in the company. I had not thought I would leave my law practice, but Kizik needed a day to day leader and I thought I'd like to try something new and different and this concept is going to work.

[Diana Ransom]

That's very validating to have Nike step in and say we actually want a piece of this. Like can we help fund this? May we use some of your technology in our development? So what does that partnership and that financial contribution meant to Kizik worked to.

[Monty Deer]

Provide technology for ourselves and for our partner in Nike. The exact terms of our, of our relationship are confidential. But I will say this. Go take a look at Nike's Hands Free Collection of shoes. They make fantastic shoes. And you can get a flavor of [e-mail] and you'll see this is going places, this concept of hands free shoes.

[Diana Ransom]

You see, the terms aren't disclosed. But like when this happens in general at companies, whether across industries, like you can kind of look down the road and see a potential acquisition in the future sometimes, or you look back in hindsight and see that these sorts of things led to an acquisition. Is that something that's in discussion right now or that you'd consider in the future?

[Monty Deer]

It is not in discussion and with any potential acquirer. Our goal right now is to keep the hands free revolution going and lift it and build it. And one thing we will consider, which we hadn't until recently, is we'll consider licensing to other particularly brand pertinent partners. Of course, Nike. Could you have a better first partner? We will consider licenses with other footwear companies as well.

[Diana Ransom]

I mean, I could see the use across different professions. Would this make a good hospital shoe? Right. Or could firefighters use it?

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Right.

[Diana Ransom]

Like there's, there's many different uses too that aren't just the companies that you might think of. Yeah, I love that you're taking this approach. That is not just we're building our own little narrow empire. We are building a technology that is useful and can be spread around, that's unique. Does that come from you or does that come from Mike, the founder?

[Monty Deer]

It's a good question. I would say it comes from the consumer and it comes from the fact that consumers are adopting the technology. And so we feel some thought to be industry enabling and not just build our brand. I don't think any brand can build as fast as it needs to from as small as we have been. If the consumer as a whole is coming toward hands free so quickly and we feel that happening. So we think we won't do this all by ourselves. But we have one other licensee besides Nike. It's called Original Footwear. They make shoes for first responders and for military users. And can you think of it better? We wanted to get that out to first responders and our men and women in uniform because they need shoes that go on quickly.

[Diana Ransom]

No, absolutely. That's exactly what I was thinking. I had no idea. That's great. How significant of a financial contribution are those licensing deals to be to your company, do you think? I mean, it's not as big as sales, but like is it a really substantial revenue stream?

[Monty Deer]

I would say it's a small part of our revenue stream, but could be bigger. And again, I think it doesn't make sense for us to do this all by ourselves. We haven't really talked about our patent portfolio, but we've been building that portfolio for more than 10 years now. And we have more than 200 patents that are either granted or pending in the United States and internationally. So we think that we have quite a moat around the key part of this technology and that other footwear companies should seriously consider working with us because we've got the goods, if that makes sense.

[Diana Ransom]

Yeah. So it wasn't necessarily just thinking, well, they're going to knock off our technology anyway. It's just thinking we own 200 patents and might as well, might as well share a little bit. Might as well license some of this.

[Monty Deer]

Well, I think that there are a couple of reasons why you. We've put millions and millions of dollars into R and D and protecting that R and D. Why do we do that? We do that for a couple of reasons. One, to shield what we've created. You know, this caged technology that I showed you, it is. We need to protect our core technologies, but also it creates a base of technology that then we can use to share with others as it makes sense as we have new partners.

[Diana Ransom]

We've been talking about this last three years of your super fast growth. Tell me, are there moments that you look back on or tell friends stories about where you were just like, gosh, I'm glad that's over. Like, did the website ever crash or did you just sell out of everything or did a group of employees quit? Was there a moment where you were just like, oh, everything's on fire?

[Monty Deer]

I call those fetal position moments where you just, for a day or two, you just go in the fetal position and then you gather again and say, we can overcome. I'll tell you one. We had just ordered, it sounds like so few pair of shoes, but we had just ordered 5000 pair of shoes in March, March of 2000 that were intended to go to a bunch of boutique footwear stores. And all of a sudden every one of them was closed.

[Diana Ransom]

Yeah.

[Monty Deer]

And we did have a website, but it was a hard moment. In fact, it was the moment where we pulled out of our wholesale business. It was not fun to call our friends who were selling our shoes and say, give us a minute, let us regroup. We did regroup. We built our brand on Kizik. But that was a hard week, month, six months when we had to pivot because the world was making us pivot.

[Diana Ransom]

I mean, was that formative for you in building the brand, though, and building the brand online, it was so formative.

[Monty Deer]

We had to wake up. We could have been building in multiple channels and when there was only one channel available to us and we weren't very good at it yet, we talked about it, thought about it day, night, weekends until we started to get it right. You know that when you learn how to focus as a team and solve problems because you need to do it right away. Yeah, absolutely formative for us. And I think we still learn better, evolve better because of those moments of truth.

[Diana Ransom]

And I feel like that's a really unique story. Hearing that the pandemic sort of like forced the brand into like a different state of existence than it was intended at all. You hear a lot of acceleration kind of stories, but that, well, here, here we are, you know, here's this. 5,000 pairs of shoes we need to sell.

[Monty Deer]

That's right. Of course, it never hurts when, when the federal government is sending lots of money to consumers and saying buy things, that's a little different. And that it absolutely boosted us as well. So we were advantaged by that.

[Diana Ransom]

Yeah. Do you have any advice that you would give to other founders who are navigating through that a change in the company or that appearance of super fast growth in terms of company culture and managing folks and keeping your team motivated when you know it's going to be hard work ahead?

[Monty Deer]

Culturally, what we've tried to do is see the value in each type of individual. And we've asked our newcomers to see the value in these uninhibited creators that have never made shoes before. But also ask our early pioneers to love and take care of and bring into our Kizik culture those who are coming from maybe century old footwear companies. And I just think appreciating what we can do together. And vulnerable is an overused word, but in what our experiences have been, it's helping us to build a culture that can keep up with our growth.

[Diana Ransom]

So what is your vision for the next five years then? Where will we see Kizik? Should we look for an IPO someday? What's the vision?

[Monty Deer]

We've got to sell a few more shoes before we start talking about an ipo. Yeah, no, but, but our vision is in all ways to get Kizzix and Hands Free shoes to the people. I would bet if you surveyed that fewer than a third of people in the United States and even fewer outside of the United States would say they are familiar with any kind of Hands Free. Mike Pratt, our founder, was saying 10% of the world's almost $400 billion footwear market could be hands free. We aren't close to that yet. And so our vision is help every consumer know that there is a better way again, a better way for something that's life changing only for a few people. But putting on shoes breaks the momentum of every one of us every day. And so we've got to tell that story across the world. And we can already see as we tell that story, the demand comes.

[Diana Ransom]

Do you guys have any? Aside from like helping folks with mobility issues, saving those moments of the day, do you have any other social missions or giving back or recycling programs or that sort of thing for shoes? I know that going through like the number of shoes my toddlers go through is insane.

[Monty Deer]

Well, when we've talked about purpose at Kizik, what we realize is our purpose is so built in that we make getting into shoes easier for especially those who are differently abled or those who are aging. And one question is why pursue other purposes with as much vigor when that one is so innate in what we do? So I think I'd probably leave it at that. We've decided this will be our focus.

[Diana Ransom]

Well, thank you Monty, so much for being here with me today.

[Monty Deer]

Christine, it's been a pleasure. Thank you for having me.

[Diana Ransom]

After talking with Monty, what has stuck with me is that to reach the super fast growth that Kizzik did, you as a company just have to adapt. You have to be nimble. Kizzik started out as this really useful tool for hands free sneaker use and then almost walked backwards and having a really appealing consumer facing brand. During the pandemic, the company put up a website and the Kizzik brand took off with consumers. The audience wasn't exactly who you'd expect. It was seniors, sure, and children, sure, but really it's taken off at the general population. And it's nimble in other ways too. From managing its own growth in revenue as a company to debuting its women's and children's divisions, to figuring out licensing deals with Nike and launching a footwear brand for first responders. That's a good reminder that being nimble is maybe the first step to fast growth. That's all for this episode of from the Ground Up.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your podcast platform of choice. Also, if you like this episode or have suggestions of what topics you'd like to hear about, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or reach out to us on Inc's social channels. On LinkedIn X or Instagram.

[Diana Ransom]

From the Ground up is produced by Julia Hsu and Avery Miles, Editing by Blake Odom, mix and sound design by Nicholas Torres. Our executive producer is Josh Christensen.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week.

[Blake Odom]

Hi listeners. I'm Blake Odom, producer of from the Ground Up. Today we have a special segment brought to you by Inc. In collaboration with our partners at Glenfiddick Single Malt Scotch Whiskey this year at the INK 5000 gala, Glen Fiddick presented the inaugural legacy award to Stephen Marsh, founder of smarsh. This award recognizes a trailblazer, an individual who has graced the Inc. 5000 list multiple times, embodying the spirit of innovation, boldness, and a relentless drive to defy the ordinary. Much like Glenfiddich, a brand that has pushed the boundaries of excellence throughout its 130 year history to become the world's most awarded single malt scotch whiskey, Stephen Marsh exemplifies the courage and brilliance it takes to redefine industries and elevate the game. Inc. Editor in chief Mike Hoffman spoke with Stephen Marsh about his remarkable journey, the legacy he has built, and the honor of being the first recipient of this award presented by Glenn Fiddick. Here's that captivating conversation. Enjoy and be inspired.

[H]

Hi, I'm Mike Hoffman, editor in chief of inc. And I'm delighted to be here today with Steve Marsh, the founder of Smarsh, a multi time Inc. 5000 honoree and the recipient of the inaugural Inc. 5000 Legacy Award presented by Glenn Fiddick. So Steve, thanks so much for joining.

[Steve Marsh]

Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. Mike.

[H]

Oh yeah, this is great. So let me get this straight. You've been on the Inc. 5000 list 17 times so far?

[Steve Marsh]

I think that's correct. I think 17 times we double checked it.

[H]

So you've been on the list 17 times. And how many years has the company been in business?

[Steve Marsh]

Since 2001, so about 23, I guess.

[H]

So you've been on the list more than you've not been on the list in the 23 years of your corporate life.

[Steve Marsh]

I think once we finally made the revenue threshold, we made the list and have been on it since.

[H]

Well, congratulations. It's amazing to make the Inc. 5000. It's amazing to make the Inc. 5000 a couple of times. And to make it 17 times puts you in really rare error. Only a few companies have made it more than 15 times. Congratulations. Now, you started the company in 2001, is that right?

[Steve Marsh]

That's Right.

[H]

Your name is Steve Marsh and the name of the company is Smarsh. Do I have it right that your original email address had something to do with the ultimate name of the company?

[Steve Marsh]

I incorporated to do consulting work, never thinking that, that the business name would see the light of day. It was just incorporated as Smarsh Inc. Because Marsh was taken by the large insurance company, so we couldn't use that. My friends at the time that my coworkers had all called me Smarsh because that was like my email handle. So I said, hey, let's just go with that. The domain name was available and many years later, with a larger marketing department and more resources available to us, more domain names available to us, we still decided to keep the name Smarsh. But that that should serve as proof that it never had intention of building this business into anything.

[H]

So who was your first client?

[Steve Marsh]

My first client was a small brokerage out of Boston, Massachusetts and a friend of mine had worked there and had told me about this need to archive communications for regulatory compliance. And I knew virtually nothing. I mean, I knew absolutely nothing about that. I knew that I needed to make some money to pay rent and that I had some technology skills. So I set out to actually help them implement a solution that I thought I would source from another vendor and quickly found that there weren't other vendors out there doing this, at least to service the small and mid sized companies. The business at that point pivoted from being a consulting business to being the archiving and communications intelligence business that it's become today.

[H]

When you started on the hockey stick like trajectory of growth, what was the sort of first moment, if you remember, where you kind of knew, oh, this is not just a consulting business, this is a real business, a technology business, and actually it's a fast growth technology business.

[Steve Marsh]

One moment that comes to mind, mind is we had a large competitor in an adjacent space. They weren't archiving the way we were. They did data backup or something and they made an offer to buy the company, really in our first year of effort in trying to sell the archiving service. And it was hard as a founder to turn down. I think it was like a million dollars. But it was complicated, but we passed on it. That was a great decision. But that really validated for me that we had built something that was at least perceived to be of value to someone else. Of course, making the Inc. 5000 list for the first time after applying earlier that year and not being able to apply the year prior to that because we didn't meet the. We weren't big enough. We didn't meet the revenue thresholds. Anyway. When we made that list, that was fantastic validation for all the hard work that we had done. It gave us a sense of credibility when we would go out to our customers by being able to put the Inc. 5000 recipient logo on our emails and on our website. And that actually helped us grow to the next level.

[H]

Beyond that, you at some point took growth capital, private equity, is that right?

[Steve Marsh]

We did. It wasn't until 2007. First investors were minority investors in 2007. Ironically, the point at which they became interested was a point at which we no longer needed money. I think many founders probably go through this. When you're trying to raise money, it's a lot harder than when you don't need it. When you don't need it, everybody seems to come out of the woodwork, and then they try to convince you why you should take money. I think that was a key moment where we realized we needed to significantly upgrade our technology infrastructure if we wanted to win bigger and bigger customers. We were making incremental changes every year, you know, the rip and replace that you hear technology companies go through, where every six months or so, we were taking out old equipment, replacing it with new, bigger and better equipment. And that really just wasn't scalable. It was becoming a distraction to have to keep going through those projects every six months or so. By raising capital, we were able to get off that hamster wheel, and we were also able to start making some acquisitions became a part of life from that moment forward.

[H]

What did you learn about business ownership and business leadership going through the process of acquisitions?

[Steve Marsh]

You know, we gained access to people who had operated at the level beyond where we were, which is a pattern, you know, we'll see occur over and over in our business. But there were smarter people who had more experience in a variety of areas, and they presented some of the reasons why we would want to do some acquisitions. They also educated me and the rest of my team on how to do them. But it taught me that there are a variety of ways to help grow the business. You probably don't want to grow your business just doing acquisitions, although that does create value for a lot of companies. But for us, it was a combination of organic growth through innovation and product development and serving our customers with different products and services and making some of these acquisitions to bring in new technology, to bring in additional competitors, to bring in more expertise than we otherwise would possess. And today that trend continues. We're trying to Bring in more AI expertise, for example, we might look to do an acquisition there.

[H]

Can I ask, where are you guys at revenue now?

[Steve Marsh]

We are about 500 million.

[H]

And what's the fastest growth part of the company right now?

[Steve Marsh]

There's a lot of focus on leveraging the data that we have stored on behalf of our customers. If you think about the initial use case for those that don't know is that we help customers by storing their electronic communication so that they can meet regulatory requirements. You have to have this stuff, you have to be able to produce it. That's kind of the baseline service. But what we've found is that over the years, you start to amass more and more really valuable information on behalf of our customers. So we have years and years worth of emails, text messages, zoom calls, you know, whatever it may be. In a world where artificial intelligence is taking over and people are trying to find ways to harness the value of data, we're sitting on what we think is one of the biggest goldmines out there in terms of data. It's employee communications that were captured initially for a different reason, but now can be turned into sales opportunities, customer service opportunities, new product ideas. You know, I think we're seeing a lot of growth.

[H]

So an archive can become a large language model.

[Steve Marsh]

Yeah.

[H]

So this is obviously the Inc 5000 Legacy Award brought to you by Glenn Fiddick. As you think about the legacy of the company and your legacy as a founder, what do you still hope for? What is your idea of what the legacy you want to leave is?

[Steve Marsh]

We have a very unique culture, I think one that reflects what I wanted to create many, many years ago. I want it to be an organization that hopefully my kids one day look back on and say, wow, dad must have built something pretty interesting here. It's still around. It's still relevant. Our customers still find value in what we're doing. I just want to see it reach its maximum potential. Not every company, even, you know, not every company that is started or that I'm involved in or that I invest in has the same opportunity to persist through time. Some companies are better as a short term product that maybe gets sold to someone else and they integrate the technology. Some technologies have a shorter lifespan where maybe it's two to three years and then you have to move on. This is a business that I believe truly has the opportunity to exist for many, many years and to be relevant by just listening to customers and adapting and finding or addressing use cases that we found many years ago.

[H]

Steve Marsh, the founder of Smarsh A half billion dollar company founded in a Brooklyn apartment that's been on the Inc. 5000 list 17 times. Thanks so much for joining us today.

[Steve Marsh]

Thanks for having me.

[H]

Before I let you go, we have these glasses of Glenn Fiddick here. You are the inaugural recipient of the Inc. 5000 Legacy Award presented by Glenn Fiddick. So let's cheers to your success.

[Steve Marsh]

Cheers.

[Blake Odom]

Congratulations again to Stephen Marsh. And I couldn't end this episode without getting a little taste of Glenfiddich myself. And since I got a bottle right here. Cheers to you listeners with Glenfiddich, the world's most awarded single malt scotch whiskey. Drink responsibly. Glenfiddich single malt Scotch Whiskey is copyrighted 2024 and imported by William Grant & Sons, Inc. New York, NY. Hi listeners. I'm Blake Odom, producer of from the ground up. Today we have a special segment brought to you by inc. In collaboration with our partners at Glen Fittick single malt scotch whiskey. This year at the INK 5000 gala, Glen Fiddick presented the inaugural legacy award to Stephen Marsh, founder of smarsh. This award recognizes a trailblazer, an individual who has graced the Inc. 5000 list multiple times, embodying the spirit of innovation, boldness, and a relentless drive to defy the ordinary. Much like Glenfiddich, a brand that has pushed the boundaries of excellence throughout its 130 year history to become the world's most awarded single malt scotch whiskey, Stephen March exemplifies the courage and brilliance it takes to redefine industries and elevate the game. Inc. Editor in chief Mike Hoffman spoke with Stephen Marsh about his remarkable journey, the legacy he has built, and the honor of being the first recipient of this award presented by Glen Fiddick. Here's that captivating conversation. Enjoy and be inspired.

[H]

Hi, I'm Mike Hoffman, editor in chief of inc. And I'm delighted to be here today with Steve Marsh, the founder of Smarsh, a multi time Inc. 5000 honoree and the recipient of the inaugural Inc. 5000 Legacy Award presented by Glenn Fiddick. Steve, thanks so much for joining me.

[Steve Marsh]

Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. Mike.

[H]

This is great. Let me get this straight. You've been on the Inc. 5000 list 17 times so far?

[Steve Marsh]

I think that's correct. I think 17 times.

[H]

We double checked it. So you've been on the list 17 times. How many years has the company been in business?

[Steve Marsh]

Since 2001. So about 23, I guess.

[H]

You've been on the list more than you've not been on the list in the 23 years of your corporate life.

[Steve Marsh]

I think once we finally made the revenue threshold, we made the list and have been on it since.

[H]

Well, congratulations. It's amazing to make the Inc 5000. It's amazing to make the Inc. 5000 a couple of times and to make it 17 times puts you in really rare error. Only a few companies have made it more than 15 times. Congratulations. You started the company in 2001, is that right?

[Steve Marsh]

That's right.

[H]

Your name is Steve Marsh and the name of the company is Smarsh. Do I have it right that your original email address had something to do with the ultimate name of the company?

[Steve Marsh]

I incorporated to do consulting work, never thinking that the business name would see the light of day. It was just incorporated as Smarsh Inc. Because Marsh was taken by the large insurance company, so we couldn't use that. My friends at the time that, you know, my coworkers had all called me Smarsh because that was like my email handle. So I said, hey, let's just go with that. The domain name was available and many years later, with a larger marketing department and more resources available to us, more domain names available to us, we still decided to keep the name Smarsh. But that should serve as proof that it never had intention of building this business into anything.

[H]

So who was your first client?

[Steve Marsh]

My first client was a small brokerage out of Boston, Massachusetts and a friend of mine had worked there and had told me about this need to archive communications for regulatory compliance. And I knew virtually nothing. I mean, I knew absolutely nothing about that. I knew that I needed to make some money to pay rent and that I had some technology skills. So I set out to actually help them implement a solution that I thought I would source from another vendor and quickly found that there weren't other vendors out there doing this, at least to service the small and mid sized companies. The business at that point pivoted from being a consulting business to being the archiving and communications intelligence business that it's become today.

[H]

When you started on the hockey stick last trajectory of growth, what was the first moment, if you remember, where you knew, oh, this is not just a consulting business, this is a real business, a technology business, and actually it's a fast growth technology business.

[Steve Marsh]

One moment that comes to mind is we had a large competitor in an adjacent space. They weren't archiving the way we were. They did data backup or something and they made an offer to buy the company. Really in our first Year of effort in trying to sell the archiving service, and it was hard as a founder, to turn down. I think it was like a million dollars. But it was complicated, but we passed on it. That was a great decision. But that really validated for me that we had built something that was at least perceived to be of value to someone else. And of course, making the Inc. 5000 list for the first time after applying earlier that year and not being able to apply the year prior to that because we didn't meet the. We weren't big enough. We didn't meet the revenue thresholds. Anyway, when we made that list, that was fantastic validation for all the hard work that we had done. It gave us a sense of credibility when we would go out to our customers by being able to put the Inc. 5000 recipient logo on our emails and on our website. And that actually helped us grow to the next level.

[H]

Beyond that, you at some point took growth capital, private equity, is that right?

[Steve Marsh]

We did. It wasn't until 2007. Yeah. First investors were minority investors in 2007, and ironically, the point at which they became interested was a point at which we no longer needed money. And I think many founders probably go through this. When you're trying to raise money, it's a lot harder than when you don't need it. When you don't need it, everybody seems to come out of the woodwork, and then they try to convince you why you should take money. I think that was a key moment where we realized we needed to significantly upgrade our technology infrastructure if we wanted to win bigger and bigger customers. We were making incremental changes every year. You know, the rip and replace that you hear technology companies go through, where every six months or so we were taking out old equipment, replacing it with new, bigger and better equipment. And that really just wasn't scalable. It was becoming a distraction to have to keep going through those projects every six months or so. By raising capital, we were able to get off that hamster wheel, and we were also able to start making some acquisitions. Became a part of life from that moment forward.

[H]

What did you learn about business ownership and business leadership? Going through the process of acquisitions, we.

[Steve Marsh]

Gained access to people who had operated at the level beyond where we were, which is a pattern we'll see occur over and over in our business. But there were smarter people who had more experience in a variety of areas, and they presented some of the reasons why we would want to do some acquisitions. They also educated me and the rest of my team on how to do them. But it taught me that there are a variety of ways to help grow the business. You probably don't want to grow your business just doing acquisitions. Although that does create value for a lot of companies. But for us, it was a combination of organic growth through innovation and product development and serving our customers with different products and services and making some of these acquisitions to bring in new technology, to bring in additional competitors, to bring in more expertise than we otherwise would possess. And today that trend continues. We're trying to bring in more AI expertise. For example, we might look to do an acquisition there.

[H]

Can I ask, where are you guys at revenue now?

[Steve Marsh]

We are about 500 million.

[H]

And what's the fastest growth part of the company right now?

[Steve Marsh]

There's a lot of focus on leveraging the data that we have stored on behalf of our customers. So if you think about the initial use, case for those that don't know, is that we help customers by storing their electronic communications so that they can meet regulatory requirements. You have to have this stuff. You have to be able to produce it. That's kind of the baseline service. But what we've found is that over the years, you start to amass more and more really valuable information on behalf of our customers. So we have years and years worth of emails, text messages, zoom calls, whatever it may be. In a world where artificial intelligence is taking over and people are trying to find ways to harness the value of data, we're sitting on what we think is one of the biggest gold mines out there in terms of data. It's employee communications that were captured initially for a different reason, but now can be turned into sales opportunities, customer service opportunities, new product ideas. I think we're seeing a lot of growth.

[H]

So an archive can become a large language model.

[Steve Marsh]

Yeah.

[H]

So this is obviously the Inc. 5000 Legacy Award brought to you by Glenn Fiddick. As you think about the legacy of the company and your legacy as a founder, what do you still hope for? What is your idea of what the legacy you want to leave is?

[Steve Marsh]

We have a very unique culture, I think one that reflects what I wanted to create many, many years ago. I want it to be an organization that hopefully my kids one day look back on and say, wow, dad must have built something pretty interesting here. It's still around. It's still relevant. Our customers still find value in what we're doing. I just want to see it reach its maximum potential. Not every company, even. Not every company that is started or that I'm involved in or that I invest in has the same opportunity to persist through time. Some companies are better as a short term product that maybe gets sold to someone else and they integrate the technologies. Some technologies have a shorter lifespan where maybe it's two to three years and then you have to move on. This is a business that I believe truly has the opportunity to exist for many, many years and to be relevant by just listening to customers and adapting and finding or addressing use cases that we found many years ago.

[H]

Steve Marsh, the founder of Smarsh, a half billion dollar company founded in a Brooklyn apartment that's been on the Inc. 5000 list 17 times. Thanks so much for joining us today.

[Steve Marsh]

Thanks for having me.

[H]

Before I let you go, we have these glasses of Glenfiddich here. You are the inaugural recipient of the Inc. 5000 Legacy Award presented by Glen Fiddick. So let's cheers to your success.

[Steve Marsh]

Cheers.

[Blake Odom]

Congratulations again to Stephen Marsh. And I couldn't end this episode without getting a little taste of Glenfiddich myself. And since I got a bottle right here. Cheers to you listeners with Glenfiddich, the world's most awarded single malt Scotch whiskey. Drink responsibly. Glenn Fitt, Critic Single Malt Scotch Whiskey is copyrighted 2024 and imported by William Grant & Sons, Inc. New York, NY.