Grief, Joy, and Giant Vats of Slime (Flashback)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Grief, Joy, and Giant Vats of Slime (Flashback)"

From the Ground Up
Host/Author: Inc. Magazine
Release Date: June 16, 2025
Guests: Karen Rabinowitz and Sarah Schiller, Co-Founders of the SLU MOO Institute

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1. Introduction: Founding Amidst Grief

The episode delves into the profound journey of Karen Rabinowitz and Sarah Schiller, the co-founders of the SLU MOO Institute, who transformed their personal grief into a thriving business centered around slime. Hosts Diana Ransom and Christine Lagorio-Chavkin set the stage by highlighting the unique intersection of trauma and entrepreneurship.

Karen Rabinowitz shares her tumultuous experiences:

“About seven years ago, everything in my life blew up... I fell into a very deep and dark depression.” ([01:33])

Her path from personal despair to rediscovering joy through slime becomes the emotional backbone of the conversation.

2. Personal Stories of Grief and Healing

Karen recounts the dual tragedies that propelled her into darkness:

• Separation and Loss:
  “I had an enormous nervous breakdown... nine months later, I lost my cousin in the Parkland school shooting.” ([01:33])

• Rediscovery Through Slime:
  A spontaneous playdate with Karen’s friend’s daughter, Maddie, reignites her childhood joy with slime.

  “I felt like me as a seven-year-old again... I became seven again.” ([04:02])

Sarah Schiller adds her parallel struggles:

• Family Health Crises:
  “My older daughter Samantha was born with Angelman syndrome... nine years ago, my husband suffered massive strokes.” ([04:07])

• Using Slime as Therapy:
  Slime becomes a medium for Sarah to engage with her daughters and process complex emotions.

  “Slime... [allows] good conversations with her because you were playing.” ([05:11])

3. The Therapeutic Power of Slime

The discussion transitions to the broader benefits of slime, touching on aspects like ASMR and tactile therapy.

Karen Rabinowitz emphasizes:

“The act of playing... connects you to other people and to yourself... it provides this amazing escape.” ([06:08])

She highlights slime’s role in combating loneliness and mental health challenges, citing its sensory engagement as a key factor in therapeutic benefits.

4. From Play to Business: Founding the SLU MOO Institute

The narrative shifts to how Karen and Sarah transformed their healing process into a business venture.

Sarah Schiller explains:

“Building a company around something so playful... we're building something full of joy and happiness.” ([08:38])

Karen Rabinowitz recounts the inception:

“We were like, this is so much magic. We have to bring this to people.” ([09:07])

Within a year, their playful brainstorming led to the establishment of SLU MOO Institute, marked by their first day attracting 3,000 visitors, far exceeding expectations.

“We were onto something. We knew slime was unbelievable.” ([10:00])

5. Creating an Immersive Experience

The SLU MOO Institute is depicted as more than just a slime factory; it’s an immersive world designed to engage all senses.

Features include:

• Scent Scapes and Interactive Spaces:
  “There's an entire room of really beautiful, immersive, soothing videos... a lake of slime.” ([12:16])

• Customization and Creativity:
  Visitors can create their own slime with millions of combinations, fostering a personal connection to the experience.

  “Every person who comes can make their own slime, and they leave with it.” ([12:40])

Karen adds a playful touch with their mascot, "Frou Frou Frou Frou," enhancing the brand’s whimsical identity.

6. Navigating Business Growth and Challenges

As the business expanded to four locations with plans for a fifth, Karen and Sarah discuss the growing pains of scaling a passion-driven enterprise.

Sarah Schiller identifies key challenges:

“Building a brand that has an emotional connection... needs systems and processes that make it function profitably.” ([19:18])

Karen Rabinowitz reflects on maintaining their vision:

“You have to fight for your vision... step outside your comfort zone.” ([19:43])

They highlight the importance of adaptability and maintaining the core joyful essence amidst rapid growth.

7. Social Impact and Inclusivity

Beyond business, SLU MOO Institute makes significant strides in social responsibility:

• Hiring Neurodiverse Adults:
  “We're hiring neurodiverse adults... 85% of adults with autism don't have jobs, we're providing opportunities.” ([34:33])

• Philanthropy and Community Engagement:
  Collaborations with organizations like Goldie Hawn's Mind Up Foundation showcase their commitment to mental wellness.

Karen shares a poignant moment:

“The first girl who walked in the door is somebody who has Down syndrome... this means I could get a job.” ([35:59])

8. Expanding the Sloomiverse: Media and Global Reach

Looking forward, Karen and Sarah discuss their ambitious plans to create a comprehensive media universe around slime, including:

• Animated Series and Graphic Novels:
  “What would an animated series be? What would a graphic novel of the character's origin story be in a fantasy way?” ([23:22])

• Live Performances and Music Catalogs:
  Integrating artistic elements to enrich the brand's storytelling.

Sarah Schiller envisions:

“We're looking to create any sort of magical moment we can.” ([17:28])

9. Lessons for Entrepreneurs: Resilience and Authenticity

In concluding insights, Karen and Sarah share valuable lessons for aspiring entrepreneurs:

• Turning Tragedy into Purpose:
  “You can come back from anything. You really can.” ([37:21])

• Importance of Trust and Communication:
  “When you really trust someone, you can make decisions so nicely.” ([39:05])

• Integrating Personal Passions:
  “You can, from day one, wrap into your business, things that are important to you and things that are meaningful.” ([32:31])

Their journey underscores the power of authenticity, resilience, and community in building a successful and impactful business.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Karen Rabinowitz on Grief:

  “I fell into a very deep and dark depression.” ([01:32])

• Sarah Schiller on Building Joy:

  “We're building something full of joy and happiness.” ([08:38])

• Karen Rabinowitz on Vision:

  “You have to fight for your vision.” ([19:43])

• Karen on Social Impact:

  “We're providing opportunities [for neurodiverse adults] that they can't get anywhere else.” ([34:33])

• Sarah Schiller on Entrepreneurial Passion:

  “We have a level of trust as co-founders that I think is really, truly remarkable.” ([09:09])

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Conclusion

Karen Rabinowitz and Sarah Schiller's story is a testament to harnessing personal pain to create something joyful and meaningful. The SLU MOO Institute stands as a beacon of creativity, inclusivity, and resilience, offering valuable lessons for entrepreneurs navigating their own paths from the ground up.

Transcript

[Diana Ransom]

This episode is brought to you by Chase for Business.

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

This episode contains mentions of sensitive topics. They're pretty brief, but you might want to check out our show notes first, particularly if younger children are listening.

[Diana Ransom]

I'm Inc. Executive Editor Diana Ransom.

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

And I'm Editor at Large Christine Lagorio Chavkin.

[Diana Ransom]

You're listening to Inks from the Ground Up. Today's episode. Founding a company while grieving. It's not easy founding a company. It helps to have a great bond with your co founder.

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

Kind of like you and me, right, Diana? I mean, in all reality, we've been working together at Inc. For 10 years, right?

[Diana Ransom]

Yes, 10 years and five children between us. It's been a lot, of course, but that's not quite what I mean. Christine, imagine starting a business from scratch after living through a deep trauma or a period of grieving, like losing a loved one, right?

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

You definitely need a great foundation with your co founder to start a company. But that is not the easiest thing to focus on while you're going through the grieving process. You might need, let's say, a real spark to start a business while you're going through something.

[Diana Ransom]

How about slime?

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

Yeah, slime.

[Diana Ransom]

It sounds wild, but that's exactly what the two co founders of the SLU MOO Institute, Karen Rabinowitz and Sarah Schiller, used to get through some of their darkest periods of their lives.

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

We started by asking them specifically about this and it got emotional pretty quickly.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

So slime actually came to me from a really personal place and I'm about to get heavy.

[Diana Ransom]

Okay.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

About seven years ago, everything in my life blew up. I had been married for 14 years. We were going through a really tumultuous time and we separated. And during that time he passed away and I had an enormous nervous breakdown. And it's the kind of thing where you regret everything that you've ever said that was wrong. And you really look at yourself and take a hard kind of moment to say, where am I happy in my life? And I realized how unhappy I was in a lot of areas. I fell into a very deep and dark depression. Nine months later, I lost my cousin in the Parkland school shooting. And you are then struck with how you never know what's gonna happen. And I was carrying so much pain and grief. I was not really leaving my house. I stopped working. I left my company. One day my friend of about 25 or so years came by with her then 10 year old daughter. Her daughter had slime with her and I grew up with slime in the 70s when it was the Mattel in the garbage can. It was my favorite thing as a child. There were many fights in my house about slime. There were probably many bad bangs haircuts because of slime in my hair. And I said, oh, Maddie, I want to see your slime. I knew there was a zeitgeist. I knew there was a cultural movement around diy and I was curious about it. And I sat on the floor with her and then all of a sudden Melissa said, oh, well, we have to go. And I said, you just got here. She's like, you've been sitting on the floor with my daughter for four hours. And I had no idea. Four hours passed when they were leaving. I said, I was just so happy. I felt like me as a seven year old again. And I didn't know I would ever feel any ounce of joy ever again. Where do I get more? She gave me a list of all of these kids and what kind of slime they're known for. And you know, I'd already learned all the 15 textures and the nuances. By the way, at one point during our play date, I was outside on the street and she was on the roof of my building drizzling slime down for me to catch it. Like, I became seven again. And so I became what is known as a hashtag adultslimer. And I said, Sarah, you know, we've been friends for 16 years and Sarah really showed up for me as a friend in those moments you see who your friends are. And Sarah had gone through really equally difficult time. So I said, I'm going to give it over to Sarah now. But I was like, I have to bring you slime.

[Sarah Schiller]

Yeah. So my journey is similar, but different. I have two daughters. My older daughter Samantha was born with a rare genetic syndrome called Angelman syndrome. And a symptom is happiness. So she's really lovely and happy and I think every parent wants that for their child. But she can't speak and she can't really do any activities of daily living. So she can't feed herself, get dressed, anything. And when you're an entrepreneur and you're a business person and a mover and shaker, when you have a child who needs full support, it changes everything, your whole view of the world. Fast forward. Nine years ago, my husband, true love and partner, woke up at the age of 50 and had massive bilateral strokes. He ended up with brain damage. He can't speak, he needs full time care to eat, to get dressed, and all those activities of daily living and you know, Karen held Samantha when she was born and has been on this journey with me when she came over. I also have a younger daughter who's five years younger. The four of us started playing, and we really realized that my severely disabled kid could play with slime just as well as the rest of us. And in particular with my little one. That you could really have good conversations with her because you were playing, but as a parent, you're kind of sneaking in, really talking about feelings and the situation, which for her was obviously really, really rough.

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

Wow. I mean, it is fascinating that we are sitting here using our hands and having a conversation right now, but I feel like there's been this rise in awareness of ASMR and how that stimulates people's brains and the tactile feelings that certain kids, certain adult, really gravitate to as sort of a therapy. Can we. Let's talk a little bit about that. And, like, is there a benefit to this neon gooey stuff?

[Karen Rabinowitz]

I mean, the benefits, I think, first and foremost boil down to the act of playing. There's a lot of scientific research around playing and what that does for the brain and how it can connect you to other people and to yourself and how it impacts feelings of loneliness. And we are living in an epidemic of mental health crisis and of loneliness and screen addiction. So that's one piece, I think. The other is when you are really in your senses, and this is touch, sound, sight, because of, like, how beautiful it looks and smell, it's really hard for your brain to start going into all the story and all the anxiety that keeps you present and in the moment and provides this amazing escape. And I feel. I mean, I feel connected to all, to both of you, because we've been walking around touching slime, and I feel like I've been getting to know you based on what you've been experiencing and what smells you like and what colors you gravitate towards. And there's also a lot to be said for color therapy.

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

Hmm, interesting.

[Diana Ransom]

So how did the slime actually help you? Like, obviously, you felt it was to some degree cathartic. Right. To play with the slime. But, I mean, you had also sought out therapy over the years.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

Oh, I was in therapy. I went on antidepressants. I mean, I spent six months crying myself to sleep and waking up in the middle of the night, literally, like, harrowing pain. And I don't say that with any levity. I very openly share it because there's so many stigmas around this. And it helped me to meet Other people who've been through trauma and came out another side. And I. I feel like the more we talk about these things, the more we normalize them for everybody. But I think what it did for me on one level is it brought my excitement back because Sounds really ridiculous. And you have to realize at this time, I'm in my late 40s. I couldn't wait for my packages to arrive, and I would run downstairs to see all my new slimes, and I was like, FaceTiming Sarah and her daughter. And then her daughter would be like, but you're getting to break it in. I want to break it in. So then I'd have to start buying two or three of every slime so they could have what we would start to call freshies. You start to develop a new language. And my creativity came back. I truly kind of before this, I was negotiating how I was going to get through the next 45 years of my life.

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

Yeah.

[Sarah Schiller]

I think importantly too, the fact that we could then start a company around something so joyous.

[Diana Ransom]

Yeah. I want to hear how did the slime become a business?

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

Yeah, that's what I was going to ask. Which was it slime or the company building? Because you two are both entrepreneurs already. That was in you. And, you know, it's fun to kind of create.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

It's a combination of building a company around something so playful. And it is. At the end of the day, it's. Everything here is more than just slime. You talk about the company part.

[Sarah Schiller]

Yeah, well, I think the really amazing thing, and especially the fact that Karen and I had been friends for so long, we. We have a level of trust as co founders that I think is really, truly remarkable. And part of that is the fact that we built this around slime because we're building something full of joy and happiness. And so every morning when we wake up, we know we're doing something really fun and incredible, like walking in here at 8 this morning to do an interview. We're happy about it because we're playing with slime, so. And I think the fact that we had such a great friendship that then was centered on slime allowed us to build the company very, very quickly.

[Diana Ransom]

Okay, but let's walk us back to that first day where you were like, okay, let's bring this to people.

[Sarah Schiller]

What is this?

[Diana Ransom]

There's a business around it. Like, how did that go?

[Karen Rabinowitz]

I mean, we were playing so much and talking about slime, and then we started to get fantastical and we would be. Imagine. Cause doing a slime, you know, an artist or imagine a fashion designer or imagine we're making this up. Taylor Swift is coming out with a new fragrance and we launch a slime that smells like it because every tween in the universe will want it. And then we were like, this is so much magic. We have to bring this to people. Literally without even thinking, Sarah called her broker that she's been working with for a decade plus I called the guy that I do all of my branding work with over the years. We went and found a lawyer. We were like, well, like drop legal paper. She's looking at real estate, working on what do we want a brand to physically look like. So we could start to go over logos together. We share such a strong aesthetic that if you put us in two different rooms and gave us all the same paint chips, we would pick the same colors.

[Sarah Schiller]

Yeah.

[Diana Ransom]

You also both have the same sidekick. Apparently.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

We do have the same sidekick.

[Diana Ransom]

And what's the name?

[Karen Rabinowitz]

Frou Frou Frou Frou.

[Diana Ransom]

Okay.

[Sarah Schiller]

So, but the thing is that we, we knew we wanted to do an experience and we, at this time the museum of ice cream had launched and so we were like, we'll do a six month pop up and then float it around. But the first idea was really, let's do something for six months. We raised money, small amount of money, and opened our doors very, very quickly. So it was a year from us sitting around the kitchen table dreaming this, to opening the doors with full on branding, staffing, building all of this world. The first day we had 3,000 people and we looked at each other and we just knew we were like, we're gonna need a bigger boat. Yeah. We were onto something. Right? You know, we knew slime was unbelievable. We knew people would love it. We had no idea how impactful it was going to be and how people were gonna gravitate towards it.

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

Did you start in this space? I mean, we are in Soho in New York City. This is a big, big space. The real estate must have been very expensive. Must be very expensive. How many people do you get in here a day these days? And it's an experience that's a little more than just touching the slime. Right.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

It's, there's a whole scent scape. There's an entire room of really beautiful, immersive, soothing videos. There's a room where it's DayGlo and you're dancing and you're turning into a slimy avatar by an interactive video. And then you can throw virtual slime. There's kinetic sand, you can walk on.

[Sarah Schiller]

A lake of slime. Take your shoes off and dance and walk on slime.

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

Amazing.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

There's alcohol wipes.

[Sarah Schiller]

Yeah. But most importantly for us is every person who comes can make their own slime, and they leave with it. And there's 4 million different combinations. So every child, every parent, we have amazing scents. We have everything from bubblegum and chocolate chip cookies, but we also have dirt and new baby and lavender. So everyone can choose their own scent. Choose from eight different. So you're really customizing something and connecting with your experience here and leaving with it.

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

And the branding, too, is immersive and sort of deep, deeper than I would expect. Like, you have a sort of avatar mascot. You have multiple versions of him, her, it. And you have a theme song. I mean, like, it's intense.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

It's a world.

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

It's a world.

[Sarah Schiller]

Yeah.

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

How much of that came from the beginning?

[Diana Ransom]

Yeah. Did you think it would be a world in the outset?

[Sarah Schiller]

100%.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

The minute. So do you know how we came up with the name Slumu?

[Diana Ransom]

No. Tell us. I mean, I do, but.

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

But no.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

There was a really funny trend in 2017 in the slime community, which is rampant. And people were saying, replace the vowels of your name with o. O. That's your slime name.

[Diana Ransom]

Okay, So I have a question for you. My name is Diana, so I have two vowels, right?

[Karen Rabinowitz]

Doo, noo.

[Diana Ransom]

Doo, noo, do, unu.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

So it's like, oh, what are you doing this weekend? We're going to do. Sounds like an island. And the minute we said slime is.

[Sarah Schiller]

Slumu, that was the name of the.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

We were like, that is so a. It's also trademarkable. That's not a real word. Right. So we were like, we could get the trademark. We were like, this is. It's an institute, because this is all science. This is a science lesson. It was just Black History Month. And throughout the whole space, we had really amazing, what we're calling SLU science Facts. And it was all facts around incredible black innovators, scientists throughout time. We'll do it for Women's History Month. Like, we're weaving in a way to.

[Sarah Schiller]

Learn while you're playing secret stem experiments. Right. This is a non Newtonian particle, which we were talking about before, and it has a lot of special traits. And I think slime also really attracts girls for some reason. And I love the fact, as a mom of two girls, that it can be cool to be into science and the art and science of making slime is something that kids can learn science through.

[Diana Ransom]

Absolutely. And Just for the record, my son loves slime too, so.

[Sarah Schiller]

Yes.

[Diana Ransom]

And I also feel like I personally blame you for all the slime that's in my carpet right now.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

I know, I know. Okay, so we have a major psa. Major PSA moment. Slime comes out with white vinegar and water. It's magic eraser.

[Diana Ransom]

It would have saved me a ton of time to make it.

[Sarah Schiller]

It can still come out of your carpet, by the way, even years later. Oh, nice. Yep.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

And you can. We look at this as an incredible way to teach your kids the art of responsibility, as if they're taking care of a pet. You can't not feed your pet. You can't not feed your slime. So every day you walk over to your slime and you open it and you're like, is it sticky? If it's sticky, you get activator, which I lovingly call anti aging serum, and you give it to your slime, and then it won't be sticky. If you haven't touched it in three weeks, certain slimes will melt. And actually, you can teach them. The clear slime or the thick and glossy slime melts faster than a butter slime. Why is that? Well, there's a different ingredient in butter slime that makes it adhere to itself more. So there is a lot of lessons in science and responsibility. It's almost like a Tamagotchi. Like, you have to take care of it.

[Diana Ransom]

You obviously feel passionate about slime. Can you tell a little bit as you grow? The Institute, I mean, this is. Now you've opened four locations, and you're onto your fifth right now. Right. How do you, I guess, translate your passion?

[Sarah Schiller]

As the company grows, we are constantly innovating. I mean, that's the one thing we have more ideas than we have money or spaces to launch. And the idea is to really keep coming up with different ways for people to connect to all of their senses, as we talked about earlier. And our other passion is working with artists. So anyway, any chance we can get to bring in an artist to help create fun, we're doing that. And that's one of the parts of LA is we're bringing in Randy Palumbo, and he's creating this amazing soundscape for us where you're going into a room covered with sound bells and interacting and playing. So we're not just focused on slime. We're looking to create any sort of magical moment we can.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

I also think, you know, the way that we think about our mission is really delivering joy, and that comes in a Lot of forms. And another element that we really believe in is the power of movement and dance. And you don't have to be a good dancer. I'm a horrible dancer. I can't follow choreography. And at the same time, when I dance, I feel incredible freedom. And I remember the period of depression I was in, and I literally had this moment. I said to myself, like, I'm never gonna dance again. And that feeling for me is like. Like I said, it's freedom. I remember one day, it was like our year anniversary, and Sarah and I were standing over there in our space, and we were dancing just silly big fools. We're doing the running man. We're doing the robot. Like, we're not. We're not. We're like, that bad moment on Friends of, like, the Ross and Rachel routine. Like, that's what we. And it doesn't matter because you're feeling joyful. So we have a theme song. One of my dreams is every hour on the hour, you play that theme song, and we have a sloom oo dance. And it becomes something that everybody learns, and you don't have to be good at it.

[Sarah Schiller]

And we have videos of dads doing it.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

Yeah, we have videos of dads doing it with. And it is like, it doesn't matter if you're not good. This is about freedom and movement. So we imagine one day that we have live performances with our characters, and we're getting families to come out together and dance.

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

So I mean, you were saying earlier that slime is sort of. You need to be not in work. Right. Or in, like, your head doing anything else while you're playing with slime. It gets you into a meditative place. But building a business is hard. What's been the biggest challenge in the last five years for you two in expanding?

[Karen Rabinowitz]

I mean, I was practically in tears this morning.

[Sarah Schiller]

I think what happened.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

I think.

[Sarah Schiller]

The challenge is as you grow. I'll tell you, as for any entrepreneur, we're building a brand that has an emotional connection. But as you grow, you need systems and processes that make it function profitably and efficiently. And it's that clash that every company in the world has that we're in the middle of that growing pain to create.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

And sometimes you want to do something and you see it so clearly because you know how beautiful it will be. And you don't always get everybody else to understand. And you have to kind of fight for your vision. You know, even at the company you co founded, where you're like, I want to convince you that this will Be incredible for us. And everybody has to step a little bit outside their comfort zone to do it.

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

And have your employees ever convinced you, no, like, that idea is not right or not going to work? Have you? Yeah.

[Diana Ransom]

I was also wondering how to what degree customers kind of influence your decisions all the time. Fuzzy is an identity verification app that is affordable, user friendly and delivers results in seconds by analyzing publicly available data through add. Its patent pending AI powered technology, Fuzzy provides users with a digital gut check for safer real life connections. Find us in the App store [e-mail] Fuzzy is powered by Qualified Digital, the big five agency disruptors that seamlessly engages Fortune 100 clients with the focus, innovation and creativity of a small shop. Want to work with us? Go to qualifieddigital.com to find out more. Yeah, I mean, and how do you, how do you get that feedback?

[Karen Rabinowitz]

We're not. If somebody came in and said, I don't like cloud slime, we're not going to not have cloud slime. But we ask them all the time, like, what do you, like, what do you wish we had? What do you want to do here? And that informs how we think about things.

[Sarah Schiller]

And I think especially children have a really poignant way of telling you what's good and what's not.

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

You mean they just tell you till you're fake?

[Karen Rabinowitz]

They just tell you they're like little drunk people. This is bad.

[Sarah Schiller]

I want to step back for one second because Karen and I often lately look at each other and say, why did we start a slime factory? Because we could have nailed it doing so many other things that are easier, that are easier. And this is the beauty of being an entrepreneur because you have this passion and fearlessness that doesn't. You can't stop. But we did something that's never been done before and that's crazy and hard. Like, you saw our slime kitchen. Making 600 gallons of slime a day on a commercial level is really, really hard. No one did it like this before.

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

Customer service is hard. Customer service, open door.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

We opened without customer service. We were like, we didn't think about that.

[Sarah Schiller]

We had a young woman in our coat closet on a computer trying to handle the onslaught of requests. But once I think you get to the point where we are now, where we have four locations and a lot of momentum and half a million guests last year, I think it does help us continue to innovate because what we've done has been successful. So let's go, team. Karen and I are onto something. Stay on the train. We know where it's going, trust us.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

And let it evolve and turn into a lot of other things. I think another amazing part of this that we are working on bringing to the world is literally the world, but through media, through. What would an animated series be? What would a graphic novel of the character's origin story be in a fantasy way? What would a future live performance, music catalog, et cetera, so that this can fill out a 360 degree universe a la, you know, Pokemon.

[Diana Ransom]

So that was the sloomoverse was part of the business plan from the first. So that includes animated series music.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

Yeah, I mean, we didn't model it. Cause it's this. In that way, it's a lot of risk and one in a billion make it. But we were like, why can't we be one?

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

Right? I mean, and you both come from the media industry and it must be tempting to give back. I mean, obviously you have such a robust social media presence right now, but is it something you think about every day?

[Karen Rabinowitz]

Every day?

[Sarah Schiller]

Every day. We're building it, we're building it.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

I mean, we are in the process of actually making that universe happen.

[Diana Ransom]

So I want to ask you about Toni Ko. She's an investor, right? Or sort of founding partner. Can you talk about how that conversation got going and what appealed to her.

[Sarah Schiller]

About slime, how amazing she is as a human?

[Karen Rabinowitz]

I mean, that's first and foremost. I think it was really kind of wild when we were sitting down saying, we're gonna kind of scrounge together whatever we can to put towards this, but we're still gonna need another half a million dollars. Our vision was, we don't wanna go to angel round and go to 10 people for, you know, $50,000 and manage that. We want one investor. And a lot of people were saying, oh, that's just so hard. You can't do it. What's your valuation? There's nothing there yet. And when somebody says to me, you can't do it, I'm like, mm, watch. Cause I.

[Sarah Schiller]

Everyone said you can't do it.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

Everyone said, you can't do it. Everyone, family, like friends, other entrepreneurs, other people that I've gone to for sage advice over the years. And we got to Toni. For some reason in my head, I knew her from her previous life tangentially. And I looked at her at the time when I was creating my Influencer agency and managing talent. And we were the first agency to manage social media Influencer the way that Brillstein would manage Brad Pitt. I saw her as going to A community that in the makeup world that a lot of the traditional brands weren't looking at. And I was saying to the traditional makeup brands, you have to look at these people because this person is literally using 20 products for one look. And who. The person in your ads doesn't even really wear makeup.

[Sarah Schiller]

This is the drag queen community.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

The drag queen community.

[Sarah Schiller]

Toni tapped in, and Tony saw it.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

And I just said, I know she's just gonna understand this. And she's a woman and she's self made. And we got to her and we met her and she. We just all. It was like a friendship actually happened. And she said, she's like, I don't.

[Sarah Schiller]

Want you as entrepreneurs to spend time running around raising money. I'm gonna write the whole check. And she did it within, I think, two or three weeks. So we had the money, we pressed go, and that was it. But it gets even more incredible because we're very, very scrappy to open this on the budget that we had. She called us up, she's like, I'm coming to New York for the opening. Are you guys having an opening party? We're definitely not having an opening party because we have no money. And she said, I'm wiring you a check right now for an opening party. And Karen and I believe because we've been to a lot of parties in this city over the last 25 years, we threw the best party this city has ever seen. And it was just such an incredible gift that she wanted to give us.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

No investor would do that. She literally said. She literally said, here's $25,000. Have a party. And Sarah and I were able to then finagle25 into making it $100,000 party by getting a lot of things sponsored. And it gave us that mojo. And we were like, we're not letting Toni down. But that's the kind of human she is. And when she said, I'm giving you a larger check than I've actually ever written for any investment, she wanted a larger percent than we imagined giving. And we had a conversation with ourselves and said, it's actually worth giving up more for the right person and having a really great partner and no longer hitting the streets than it is to just be greedy. We don't have anything right now, so let's just give a little more and build.

[Diana Ransom]

Amazing. And so obviously she showed up at the party and did you have, like, fountains of slime?

[Sarah Schiller]

Well, we have our. We have 35 vats that each hold 5 gallons. So these are pretty magical when you have Hundreds of people.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

Let's just say there was an odd shaving cream performance by an artist. An odd shaving cream performance. We had, you know, Sky Katz at the time, she was 16. She's a Disney star, she's a rapper. She had just done a commercial with Nike, with LeBron. She performed with a troupe of dancers. We had Rihanna's dj. I mean, it was.

[Sarah Schiller]

We had people in still walking around drizzling slime. Acrobats. We had acrobats in our lake.

[Diana Ransom]

Oh my goodness.

[Sarah Schiller]

It was a festival.

[Diana Ransom]

That is amazing. Let's talk about your marketing for a second. Obviously you appeal to children, but increasingly moms and dads are sort of joining the fun. And your marketing, just generally speaking, kind of appeals to adults too. And I wonder is that. That seems deliberate. And what do you think adults would get out of playing slam?

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

Adults have the money, right?

[Diana Ransom]

That's true.

[Sarah Schiller]

They're fine, but it's okay.

[Diana Ransom]

But the idea is like you can also play. And to your point earlier, it's like you kind of want something meditative. You want something that takes you away from the screens, that takes you away from work and your overworked life. And just.

[Sarah Schiller]

I don't think. I think adults know they want that until they come and experience it. I actually think we are undercover getting them to connect to that after they get here. I'll let Karen talk about the marketing in a second. Cause she's really the guru. But I wanna just tell you this. What we see happening, which is to me one of the most amazing things, which is fathers coming with their daughters. And we see manly men coming in who are like, I'm not gonna touch this slime. I'm just here cause I have this sweet nine year old who's dying to come to Slumu Institute. Two vats in their sleeves are rolled up, they're grinning, they're smiling, and you're.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

Lifting the whole 5 gallon of slime.

[Sarah Schiller]

In the air over their heads. And we know that these young girls are gonna have this memory for the rest of their life. The day that they spent with their dads, really connecting in a meaningful way. And whenever we are feeling down, sometimes we come and just watch people play. And Karen and I just hold hands and see the joyousness of families connecting. It's really incredible. And I think the guys especially have no idea what they're getting into.

[Diana Ransom]

Well, they learn quickly. So you have four locations, you're opening a fifth in la. What's the expansion strategy?

[Karen Rabinowitz]

It's really looking at the key large cities where we can put flagship spaces and invent something new and innovate as we go along.

[Diana Ransom]

Is it also helpful for like delivering slime to have these like hub and spokes in different places?

[Karen Rabinowitz]

That's something that we're working on next.

[Diana Ransom]

Which is, believe me, I charge by the hour.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

Is having a location in a smaller but still just as amazing city where the slime might be made in a bigger city and you're trucking it. And when we prove that works, then you can start to say, okay, what's the four to six hour drive from New York, from Los Angeles, from Chicago, et cetera, so that you can start building larger. And then we're looking to license internationally so we have a global footprint and build out the media side.

[Diana Ransom]

Okay, and how soon does all this happen? Like the media, I mean, in our.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

Eyes, when we want it to happen.

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

Or the reality, what's your next two year plan for expansion?

[Sarah Schiller]

So we have multiple tracks and we're also looking to, we're out raising money. So as entrepreneurs, I feel like sometimes it feels like we're never not raising money. We're so lucky because we're profitable and so many startups aren't. So we have that in our back pocket besides the fact that we have really just a beautiful sustainable business model. But we're looking to do both prongs. So continue on the physical experiences while we start to build out this animated musical world of Slimu online. So we're going to do both and I guarantee at the end of two years, we're going to have some pretty exciting content out there that will go hand in hand with the spaces expanding.

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

How many spaces are you imagining? Just give me a hopeful number from.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

A large, like a large space at like at least 10.

[Sarah Schiller]

10.

[Diana Ransom]

And then you recently embarked on a gosh, sunshine tour.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

Sunshine tour, yeah. It's dark out there. We want to bring sun. This is sunshine.

[Diana Ransom]

What happened? What'd you do during the tour?

[Sarah Schiller]

We landed in Detroit, which is amazing. We need sunshine in and we had a whole team with us. We had a big yellow truck and they were driving around the city handing out slime. We were running into different TV studios and radio studios saying, like, get slime, come and play. We have a space in Chicago that's absolutely gorgeous and it's really, people can drive there. And we're saying, take your family, go on a trip, get out of your house for the weekend and make slumu part of that. So one of the things that we like to tell other Entrepreneurs is that you can, from day one, wrap into your business, things that are important to you and things that are meaningful. And I think because we started Slumu in our late 40s, we didn't think twice about including our passion projects into the fabric of the company. So we give back to mental wellness through Goldie Hawn's Mind up foundation, and they're an integral part of our philanthropy. But we also have an amazing initiative around hiring neurodiverse adults. And this started with just one guy and has grown to be up to five or six people in every location. We're actually working to partner more closely with the organizations that support adults with different special needs to help us find the right people and find the right jobs. We call this our secret weapon, which now it's out there. So it's probably not so secret because we have such a loyal workforce in a time when there is a fight for labor and the people working for us feel like they have a career here and that since 85% of adults with autism don't have jobs, we're providing opportunities for them that they can't get anywhere else. More importantly, and an interesting couple layers, is that having a really diverse workforce makes everyone better. You treat people with more respect, with more dignity, patience. More patience. You're more apt to describe things or help people in different ways. And then when we have visitors and guests coming in, we're tapping into the entire population. So we have families that are coming in with special needs and they're seeing people who look like their own kids or kids are seeing themselves working. And it's providing hope and it's subconscious. We never intended that. We didn't even know that was going to happen. And it just happened. And it's been remarkable. And now we're really proponents of, like, any company can start, anyone can start with just one person. And you don't know where it's going to take you, but it can change people's lives.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

And you can start by having a charity partner. Doesn't mean you have to give away so much. But if those causes are important to you, I think, and you can weave them into your world in a really authentic way, because this speaks to our personal lives and it makes us feel much more purposeful and we support each other's causes and visions. I think one of the most beautiful stories was the day we opened Houston. The first girl who walked in the door is somebody who has down syndrome. And she was talking to somebody who works with us and heard about this part of our Business, and then looked around and said to her, mom, mom, this means I could get a job.

[Diana Ransom]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

Like, chills. Really, like, that is Drop the mic. Like, that is what we do this for. And so what Sarah said earlier is, if we're ever having a frustrating day or we're in a bad mood and we come here, we can feel that again.

[Diana Ransom]

I was also noticing on your website, obviously, you put it out there about your own traumatic experiences before you started slumu. Do you feel that telling your story has resonated with your customers? Have they told you that? Is that part of the reason why you tell people?

[Karen Rabinowitz]

Well, they tell us this, and then they share their own stories. For me, I do it because I had a lot of support from women who lost their husbands to mental health. And that is a different kind of grief. And I don't really, in the media talk about that so blatantly, but I talk about it to guests, to people, because it is a real problem and it is a real issue. And I lost my will to live when I went through that. And I believe that in sharing that, it can help one person and then.

[Diana Ransom]

Makes it worth it. Yeah. What do you hope other entrepreneurs kind of learn from your experience of turning, you know, tragedy into a playful business?

[Karen Rabinowitz]

I think that you can come back from anything. You really can. I think that it's really easy to say. I mean, I said it. I literally said to Sarah, I have no life again. What am I gonna do? And she was like, you'll build again.

[Sarah Schiller]

Yeah. It's this idea that don't give up hope. And for me in particular, with two girls, you know, I want them to see that. Yeah, you're gonna come. Every one of us comes across really hard obstacles, but you can get up, shake it off, and just keep moving forward because you don't know where you're gonna end up. And look where we've ended up. It's really incredible. It's a reminder. Remarkable journey. And the fact that we're on this together is so heartwarming because it's only furthered our friendship. I always say that when this company is off on its own, Karen and I are going to start another company because it's really fun. And there is that when you really trust someone, you can make decisions so nicely, and you can take on really hard things in a fearless way. And the reward that you get from that is. Is tenfold.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

And you can have the hard conversations, you can disagree and then come and find solutions and actually learn from each other.

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

I love that you say you'd start a company again together. So many founders say, don't start a business with your friends. You know, what's the lesson that you've learned about working together and how to get through those hard conversations when it's someone you're personally and financially invested in and with?

[Sarah Schiller]

I think it helps that we started it in our late 40s and we're both, I say, like realized beings, right? Like, we're.

[Diana Ransom]

You're actualized.

[Sarah Schiller]

We've done the work, put it out there. Like, it's. Don't go to bed angry. We're at that level. So we, we have disagreements and. But we just work through them like, like anyone would. So it can be done, but you have to really make sure the communication is as high as possible.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

It's a marriage, so you have to know, I'm gonna go on a journey, and it's gonna be hard at times, and one of us is gonna break at times and the other one's gonna break at another time. And you're just gonna be there through the journey. And I definitely know no matter what, I can. Sarah's on the journey. Whatever happens, we're all still on the journey together.

[Diana Ransom]

Well, on that note, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you tremendously talking to you and getting to learn more about the Sloomiverse.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

It was so fun to talk to you too.

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

Thank you for taking us on the journey.

[Diana Ransom]

You're welcome.

[Karen Rabinowitz]

Thank you for being here. Yes.

[Diana Ransom]

Oh, wow.

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

That's all for today's episode of from the Ground Up.

[Diana Ransom]

Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your podcast platform of choice. Also, if you like this episode or have suggestions of what topics you'd like to hear about, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or reach out to us on Inc's social channels on LinkedIn, Instagram and the app formerly known as.

[Christine Lagorio Chavkin]

Twitter, from the Ground up is produced by Julia Shue, Blake Odom and Avery Miles. Mix and sound design by Nicholas Torres. Our executive producer is Josh Christensen. Thank you for listening and we will see you next week.

[Diana Ransom]

Panoply.