How Cult Brands Capture Imaginations–and Wallets

Summary

Podcast Summary: From the Ground Up – How Cult Brands Capture Imaginations–and Wallets

Introduction

In the October 7, 2024 episode of From the Ground Up, hosts Diana Ransom and Christine Ligorio-Chafkin delve into the phenomenon of cult brands—companies that have not only captured the imagination of their consumers but also secured their financial loyalty. The discussion centers around how these brands cultivate passionate fan bases, particularly among female consumers, through strategic marketing, product design, and community engagement.

Rise of Cult Brands

Diana introduces several standout brands that have achieved cult status, including Stanley, Kendra Scott, and Bog Bags. She highlights Bog Bags as a personal favorite, sharing its impressive trajectory from a small New Jersey-based company founded by Kim Vaccarella to landing on the Inc. 5000 list with expectations to exceed $100 million in revenue by the end of 2024.

Stanley’s Viral Success

Christine brings attention to Stanley's fervent fan base, especially evident through their viral TikTok presence. While Diana admits she hasn't personally engaged with TikTok, Christine describes a viral video showcasing a Stanley mug surviving a car fire unchanged, emphasizing the product's durability and temperature retention:

"There's this one video, like, where they're pouring over a scene after a car fire because there's a steam. Stanley mug in the car that has survived this explosion in the vehicle. And when they open up, the Stanley, like, the beverage is still cold." [03:35]

Journalists’ Skepticism and Brand Fandom

Despite their high engagement with these brands, Diana and Christine reveal their inherent skepticism as journalists, which often prevents them from developing personal fandoms. Diana notes:

"I am actually not a fan of anything. Remember, we had this very kind of high level of skepticism toward things, and it prevents us from maybe, like, developing that kind of fandom." [04:14]

Allie Donaldson on Cult Brand Strategies

Allie Donaldson, an Inc. reporter, joins the conversation to shed light on the underlying strategies that propel brands like Stanley and Kendra Scott to cult status. She discusses the evolution of Stanley, from its traditional male-skewed market to a revamped product line aimed at a broader, particularly female, audience:

"The company told me they actually were in a lot of period pieces which they realized this is not good. And so they had a full redesign, realizing that they had a product that was extremely male skew and were leaving out half the population of women." [09:00]

Influencer Marketing and Collaborations

Donaldson elaborates on the role of influencer marketing and celebrity collaborations in sustaining brand virality. She draws parallels between Stanley's approach and that of Crocs, highlighting Terrence Riley's impact:

"It's a sneakerhead mentality... having limited edition versions of this shoe, we're going to have a million colors of this same product... create a sense of freshness and FOMO." [12:00]

Risk of Brand Dilution

Christine raises a critical point regarding the potential risks of over-collaborations:

"Brands use that all over the place. I wanted to talk to you about that concept... Is there a risk that the brands take every time and just watering down their identity?" [14:30]

Allie concurs, emphasizing the importance of aligning collaborations with the brand’s core audience to prevent dilution:

"You have to resist that temptation to just slap your brand on any other partnership... find those fans." [15:06]

Bog Bags: A Case Study in Virality

The discussion shifts to Bog Bags, spotlighting its rapid growth and strategic positioning within the direct-to-consumer boom. Donaldson attributes Bog Bags' success to its exclusive presence in local boutiques and vibrant color palette, fostering an "offline IRL virality" that seamlessly transitioned online. She notes:

"They have a lot of neon greens... it was really the height of the direct to consumer boom." [18:07]

Consumer Behavior Amid Economic Strain

Amidst economic challenges, Donaldson observes a paradox where consumers continue to invest heavily in these cult brands despite financial constraints:

"In the same environment, these fan bases for these cultures... are buying big on expensive items and leading these companies to have double, triple-digit growth." [24:54]

Expansion and Future Growth

Discussion turns to the expansion strategies of these brands. Kendra Scott, for example, is broadening its product line to include engagement rings and wedding bands, aiming for an intergenerational customer base:

"Maybe a young woman that discovered them in college... could buy her engagement ring there." [29:44]

Similarly, Bog Bags is focusing on nationwide expansion through larger wholesale partners while maintaining their exclusive appeal:

"They have to spread the word... similar with Bog Bag. They really grew out of the Southeast and all these local boutiques." [32:03]

Interview Segment: Steve Marsh and the Inc. 5000 Legacy Award

The episode concludes with an interview segment featuring Steve Marsh, founder of Smarsh, who receives the inaugural Inc. 5000 Legacy Award presented by Glenfiddich. Marsh discusses the origins of his company, its consistent inclusion on the Inc. 5000 list, and his vision for its enduring legacy:

"I just want to see it reach its maximum potential. Not every company has the same opportunity to persist through time." [46:42]

Marsh highlights the importance of organic growth, technological innovation, and strategic acquisitions in scaling his business to a half-billion-dollar enterprise:

"We have years and years worth of emails, text messages, zoom calls... we're sitting on what we think is one of the biggest goldmines out there in terms of data." [45:24]

Conclusion

From the Ground Up offers an insightful exploration into the mechanics behind cult brands' success. Through detailed discussions and expert reporting, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of how strategic marketing, product innovation, and community-building efforts enable brands like Stanley, Kendra Scott, and Bog Bags to thrive in a competitive marketplace. The episode underscores the delicate balance brands must maintain to foster loyalty without compromising their identity, providing valuable lessons for entrepreneurs aiming to emulate this success.

Notable Quotes

• "This was something that he used at Crocs as well... Post Malone, he did a full collaboration with him, and that was the start of the full celebrity collab." – Allie Donaldson [13:05]

• "If you don't buy it, you're not going to have it... it's the marketer's dream." – Allie Donaldson [12:57]

• "We have to resist that temptation to just slap your brand on any other partnership." – Allie Donaldson [15:09]

• "Maybe a young woman that discovered them in college... could buy her engagement ring there." – Allie Donaldson [29:44]

• "We're sitting on what we think is one of the biggest goldmines out there in terms of data." – Steve Marsh [45:24]

Key Takeaways

• Cult brands achieve success through limited edition releases, strategic collaborations, and leveraging influencer marketing.
• Maintaining brand identity is crucial to prevent dilution amidst numerous partnerships.
• Exclusive product positioning in niche markets fosters a dedicated and passionate consumer base.
• Adaptation and expansion into new product lines ensure long-term relevance and loyalty.
• Entrepreneurial success is often underpinned by a combination of organic growth, technological innovation, and strategic acquisitions.

Final Thoughts

This episode of From the Ground Up serves as a valuable resource for entrepreneurs and business leaders seeking to understand the intricacies of building and sustaining cult brand status. By dissecting the strategies of successful brands and highlighting real-world applications, the hosts provide actionable insights that can inform and inspire listeners' own business endeavors.

Transcript

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[Diana Ransom]

I'm Inc. Executive Editor Diana Ransom.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

And I'm Editor at Large Christine Ligorio Chavkin.

[Diana Ransom]

This is from the Ground Up.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Today's episode how cult brands captured the imaginations and wallets of female consumers.

[Diana Ransom]

So this is a new format from us at from the Ground up, which we'll be doing about once a month where we talk to an Inc. Reporter about their latest feature. But first, Christine, what's going on in the world of Inc. Media?

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Yeah, we are getting ready to host our Inc. 5000 annual gala and conference in Palm Desert, California. It's in the middle of October, October 16th through 18th. It is sort of our annual celebration of some of the most respected entrepreneurs in the business and the founders of the fastest growing company.

[Diana Ransom]

It's Entrepreneur Prom.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Yeah, I mean the gala is right. It's excellent and I'm excited to be on stage. I believe I will be interviewing Aisha Curry of Sweet July. And also on stage will be Ryan Reynolds. We've got dozens and dozens of excellent guests, but those are a couple highlights.

[Diana Ransom]

Oh, big names love it. I can't wait.

[Allie Donaldson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

If you wanna get tickets or register, we will include a link to that in our show notes today.

[Diana Ransom]

Awesome. Thanks Christine. So now let's talk about some cult brands. So we have Stanley, Kendra, Scott, Bog Bags. They've all really skyrocketed in popularity. Bog Bags is a personal favorite. I had never heard of them. It was a company founded by a woman named Kim Vaccarella out of Lodi, New Jersey. Love Lodi. Landed on the Inc. 5000 this year and expects to book more than 100 million in revenue by the end of 24. 20. By the end of 20.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

24.

[Diana Ransom]

24.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

This year. This very year.

[Diana Ransom]

This exact year. And you know, the Stanley Stans are seriously engaged. Oh.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

So have you seen some of these Stanley TikToks? People are so obsessed, and I kind of get why, after seeing them, I.

[Diana Ransom]

Have not seen the Stanley TikToks. But that's only because I don't actually watch TikTok.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Okay, well, like on Instagram, maybe. Okay, there's this one.

[Diana Ransom]

Yes, I am aware of the Internet.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

There's this one video, like, where they're pouring over a scene after a car fire because there's a steam. Stanley mug in the car that has survived this explosion in the vehicle. And when they open up, the Stanley, like, the beverage is still cold.

[Brex Ad]

Everybody's so concerned about if the Stanley spills.

[Allie Donaldson]

But what about if it melts?

[Diana Ransom]

Fire yesterday still has ice in it. Oh, my. No.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Yeah, that's. Yeah, it's wild. Okay, so, Diana, if you're not. And you're not on TikTok, like, are you a super fan of anything? Do you have any brands you're obsessed with personally?

[Diana Ransom]

So, no, I am actually not a fan of anything. Remember, we had this very.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

I mean, I kind of knew this because I know that as journalists, we both have this kind of high level of skepticism toward things, and it prevents us from maybe, like, developing that kind of fandom.

[Diana Ransom]

Right. So you can empathize. You're actually not a fan yourself.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Absolutely. Like, sure, I buy. Like, I'll buy a pair of shoes, but I would never, like, see that. I'm a huge fan of it.

[Diana Ransom]

You know, like, I'm not gonna walk around with the shirt of a brand.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Right. Right.

[Diana Ransom]

Unless that shirt is really soft. It's not the brand itself.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

At the same time, we love small companies. Right? Like, we, like, love their stories. So this stuff is fascinating to us, even if we are not.

[Diana Ransom]

Oh, no, absolutely. Absolutely. I think the world is fascinating. So clearly, I'm not the target market for these people. But, you know, at the same time, I appreciate who they're trying to reach, and I think it's fascinating to it to watch the car fires and the. All that good stuff. So we get into all of that in our conversation with inc. Staff writer Allie Donaldson. So we talk about how people have become fanatics of these brands and how the brands have actually cultivated them. Into fanatics of their brands. We started out the conversation by talking about Stanley cups and how they've actually not always been trendy.

[Allie Donaldson]

I mean, it's an interesting story because if you think about water bottles, they've always been this sort of trendy item. I feel like I can measure my life by what was in vogue 20 years ago. It was the Nalgene, Then we had the camelbak, and then it was this. More stainless steel bottles, the hydro flask, the swell. And so we still. This is like, I still have a.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Swell J. Alfred proof rock. I'm not a life measured in coffee spoons, but in water bottle.

[Allie Donaldson]

Yes. And so when the ste. Stanley quencher became a thing, when it really went viral, which was around, like, 2022, and it's this giant insulated tumbler cup. 40 ounces, a straw. It has a side handle. It's kind of designed to sit in your car's cup holder. And when it first went viral, like, I kind of assumed, like, all of those other bottles that it would kind of lose that perch in that moment in the public consciousness, but it just kept sticking around. And so when I first wrote about them and 2023 last year, being a younger millennial, being pretty online, which I feel like it's nature of being a journalist, I thought I was late to the story, but then after I wrote the story, it just wouldn't go away. I felt like every week, someone in the newsroom was sending me a headline about Stanley. I was reading about Stanley, like, they have, like, an Olivia Rodrigo cup, and it's, like, trending on Twitter like they were causing more mayhem in Target stores. It just felt like this trend that wouldn't go away. And in that way, it was a different sort of viral. It wasn't a blip.

[Listener 1]

Spending $100 on a Stanley cup sounds insane now. Did I do that? Unfortunately, I did. But was I sober? I was not.

[Diana Ransom]

I got it.

[Allie Donaldson]

I got it.

[Listener 1]

Hold on. It's Olivia Rodrigo. These resellers really jack up that price. It was double the original one, but come on. If I didn't have this, that would just be crazy. I have not opened this. I've only seen pictures.

[Listener 2]

I don't have it.

[Listener 1]

You're lying.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

You're lying.

[Allie Donaldson]

You're l. Oh, geez.

[Listener 1]

I'd pay 500 for this. This is now the most perfect Stanley that I own, and I don't regret buying this. It would honestly make no sense if I didn't own this. And I am very happy with my purchase. Oh, my Gosh, Olivia Rodrico, I love you.

[Listener 2]

I got a nice day.

[Diana Ransom]

I'm sorry. I've used a Stanley water cup and I don't really understand them. Your drink will spill if you put it in a bag.

[Allie Donaldson]

Right.

[Diana Ransom]

Which I think is actually a really important feature in a water bottle. That it won't.

[Allie Donaldson]

I will say they have some other water bottles that you can kind of close like a traditional water bottle and like hold in a more normal way, but they're just not that really popular quencher. Which, yes, I agree. I don't understand why children want to take these to school. It's like.

[Diana Ransom]

Okay. Also another thing not to. Sorry. Not to pick on Stanley too much, but I mean, they're also gigantic. Like, how does anyone carry these things?

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Diana, this is a marker of your identity. It's not just a water bottle. This is what Ali's reporting has uncovered.

[Allie Donaldson]

I will say it is not for me. I will say to your point, not for you. I do think it would be designed if your life was more suburban. It does fit perfectly in that cup holder in a car. And so I think if you were someone that drove to work and then had to go drive to pick up your kids from school, and we weren't in New York City and in Brooklyn, it would probably fit with your lifestyle much better. Because I think for a lot of people that are tick talking about it, that's what it is. It's that cup that sits in your car that so big that you always have water in it and the ice stays for days.

[Diana Ransom]

Right, right.

[Allie Donaldson]

Or through fires.

[Diana Ransom]

Yeah, right. Being able to maintain the temperature is pretty key.

[Allie Donaldson]

But I think what was so interesting about this too, to like Christine's point is this was there was a plan behind this. And this is a long time company. It's more than 100 years old. And for a long time it was known for these green thermoses, like fighter pilots carried them. In World War II. It was kind of known as sort of an item that a guy would take to like a union job site to a construction site.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Boaters, Right? Military.

[Diana Ransom]

Yeah, I visualize it exactly is what you're explaining. That's.

[Allie Donaldson]

I mean, it's funny, the company told me they actually were in a lot of period pieces which they were like realized this is not good. And so they had a full redesign, realizing that they had a product that was extremely male skew and we're leaving out half the population of women. And so they just made some few changes in terms of saying, okay, let's Have a different color palette. Let's have a lot of range of colors. Let's have a straw, a handle, and these sort of simple designs. And then it caught fire online. A few, you know, influencers really liked it and talked about it on their own channels, and then it just really caught fire.

[Diana Ransom]

So speaking of the deliberate nature of it, did Stanley reach out to the influencers and then set it up that way, or was it just sort of by happenstance?

[Allie Donaldson]

The first one was by happenstance. It was this group of mom bloggers in Utah that the Buy Guide is what they're called, and they just review products on their own. Think of it as like a wire cutter for Utah moms. Like, they would do this, and they just. Somehow one of them found this product, and this was, like, all the way back in 2019, and really liked it. And they put it on their list of, like, why they liked this product. And so from there, they just really tapped into that online culture.

[Listener 1]

I needed my nails to match my.

[Allie Donaldson]

New Stanley, and I also had to turn my Stanley into a Utah mom as well.

[Listener 1]

Time for photos.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

So I'm kind of going back to your prior reporting here, but, like, also around 2019, as you're mentioning, like, another brand was gaining a lot of steam, and that was Crocs. Right? This other ugly, like, improbable hit that just is absolutely everywhere now. And there is a link between Crocs and Stanley. Ally.

[Allie Donaldson]

And you're right, there is a connection. And it's Terrence Riley, who. He had been at Crocs starting in 2013. He rose to become the chief marketing officer. So it was under him that this ugly shoe that for a lot of people had been for gardening and around the house sort of shoe. I remember kids when I was at summer camp as a kid were like, canoeing or like, at the lake, but it became cool, and it became high fashion. It was at London Fashion Week. You know, celebrities were wearing this. So it was Terrence. It was a very similar marketing playbook that then in 2020, Stanley hired him as their president, and he left and took this same playbook to Stanley, which is really something that he learned, as he told me when I spoke to him for this story, was a sneakerhead mentality. He had come up through the ranks at Foot Action, which I had never heard of, but I guess it's a defunct shoe.

[Diana Ransom]

Yeah, I remember it. And it was in the mall Foot Action, wasn't it? Yeah, it was in the mall.

[Allie Donaldson]

It was eventually bought by Footlocker.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Sounds like a fetish site.

[Allie Donaldson]

And it's that sneakerhead mentality of saying, we're going to have drops, we're going to have limited edition versions of this shoe, we're going to have a million colors of this same one product. And it creates a sense of freshness. But also that fomo, you don't want to miss out because if you don't buy it, then you're not going to have it. And as Terrence told me, it also, when you're an executive, when you're a CEO, an entrepreneur, it has a lot of good business reasons too, because it's much cheaper to do things that way. You're never going to run the risk of over inventory when you order just, just a few thousand versions of something and then you create a false scarcity model where people can't get your product. And ironically, as Terrence told me, that's the marketer's dream. When people cannot get your product and they are then posting online, I can't get this product.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

It's amazing. I mean, it's like false scarcity, but it is scarcity. And they've manufactured that desire and that buzz then.

[Allie Donaldson]

And that's a good way to say, I would say probably manufactured scarcity is probably a better word than false.

[Diana Ransom]

So what is it? I mean, obviously the drop in the, you know, manufacturing of scarcity is a thing, but how did Stanley so successfully capture the female gaze, like just by producing a water cup in different colors?

[Allie Donaldson]

I mean, a few design changes really did help that. And finding these organic fans online that were already using the product and then using them to talk about why they liked it, it's almost the classic, listen to your customers. Like as he told me, it's like, find those fans. So as opposed to him saying, you know, I'm a 50 year old guy, here's why you should get this. Like, here are women that are using it online. And that was something he used at Crocs as well. And like he had told me this story when Crocs really became cool was because one of his young employees, her name was Toria Roth, at the time she was just out of college and she had been following Post Malone online. And at all of his concerts he would wear Crocs because he's on stage for hours and he talked about online that it's really comfortable. And so when you're jumping around on stage performing, that was his go to shoe. And so she flagged this to her boss, to the chief marketing officer and through them they were able to reach out to Post Malone, and he did a full collaboration with him, and that was the start of the full celebrity collab. So they had, like, Bad Bunny did one, like Justin Bieber did one. It became a thing.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Yeah, that collab and drop strategy. Right. Brands use that all over the place. I wanted to talk to you about that concept. Like, it also is a little risky, right? I mean, is there a risk that the brands take every time and just watering down their identity?

[Allie Donaldson]

Oh, there's totally a risk. And this was something when I was talking with Kendra Scott CEO Tom Nolan about this.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Kendra Scott, the jewelry company?

[Allie Donaldson]

Yes, the jewelry company. It's based in Austin. I feel like it really took off, like, I knew about it first in college, and it was kind of doing trunk shows at a lot of sororities. They always had these colors that matched colleges for game days. And they've done a lot of good collaborations. They've done.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

And a lot of Tiktoks for Rush days.

[Allie Donaldson]

Yes, yes. And so they've done, like, Love Shack, Fancy with Target. But at the same time, there's a reason behind those choices. They really align with the brand and who's already using their products. And that was what he was telling me, is the risk is you can really water down your brand. He really told me, you know, other executives, other CEOs, entrepreneurs. You have to resist that temptation to just slap your brand on any other partnership, thinking that it'll build your audience, because at some point, you water it down. And as you said, you see a lot of brands jump the shark.

[Diana Ransom]

Yeah. I don't actually understand why it would water the brand down. If you're collaborating with somebody who speaks also to a core audience that your brand does too, then how would that water down?

[Allie Donaldson]

I guess it would water down as long as it made sense. I guess his point was if you know your audience and it's like, mostly a female audience, maybe you're not gonna go have, like, men in Germany. You're gonna try to figure out, like, something that makes sense for your audience.

[Diana Ransom]

No offense to men in Germany.

[Allie Donaldson]

I was trying to find an oddly specific skew.

[Steve Marsh]

Yeah.

[Allie Donaldson]

Yeah, that's perfect.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

I guess I see it as people, younger folks, especially today in America, at least, like, their identities are so tied with their consumer choices, they feel strongly about these kind of purchases. And should a brand veer too much into things that are not within their taste. Right. That. That creates kind of a dissonance there.

[Diana Ransom]

Well, I've also. I've heard this other kind of theory behind all of this. Is that we don't have any kind of like unifying through line anymore. Like, we're not all listening to the top Billboard music. We're not even watching the same shows.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Monoculture is long gone.

[Diana Ransom]

Exactly. But we kind of do have this monoculture through these brands and almost through subcultures of monoculture.

[Allie Donaldson]

Cause I feel like all of these brands that I did in this story about cult brands, which I really focused on. Stanley, the jewelry company, Kendra Scott, and Bog Bag, which is.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

All right, I just need. I know, I know. I can't wait to talk about Bog. Yes, let's talk about Bog Bags. Tell us what it is.

[Allie Donaldson]

The cult of Bog. So it's funny too. Terrence Riley. Not involved with this company. But it's a croc bag, as I.

[Diana Ransom]

But is it a croc bag? Like, does croc make it?

[Allie Donaldson]

No, I just joke. It's the same material. It's that EVA material, which is this polymer plastic type material. And so it looks a lot like a croc. It's plastic, it's perforated and. But it's. No, it's the vision of a female founder outside in New Jersey who just wanted to make a better bag and was so sick of like, you know, kind of the crappy ones you would buy at like wings in those discount stores that would just break before your vacation was over. Wanted to build something sturdier. And so this was the Bog bag, which has had insane growth. Enough to land on the Ink 5000 this past year.

[Diana Ransom]

Wow. Congratulations.

[Allie Donaldson]

Yeah.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

What struck me about this is, and maybe I'm reading just into your writing a little bit, but it struck me that this product seemed manufactured for virality from its very start, from its shape, from its colors, from its price point.

[Allie Donaldson]

I definitely think too, especially the colors, the price point and the placement. Because I think it was interesting because when this brand came around, it was really the height of the direct to consumer boom. But this company, BOG, chose to go wholesale. And still 70% of its business is wholesale. And it didn't start in big retailers. It started in these local boutiques, the kind of places you would see those stores they had Lily Pulitzer, Jack Rogers, high end brands. So from the very start, Kim was positioning this brand as a higher end product. Even though it is plastic, but it's there in the stores in these bright colors. Pink was the first one they did. They have a lot of neon greens. And so it would be in these stores with these kind of Alice and Olivia cutesy, preppy looks.

[Diana Ransom]

So the virality nature of it Is because it was so exclusive or the viral nature of it.

[Allie Donaldson]

Yeah, because I think when you go to these local boutiques somewhere, you go on vacation each summer or in, like, your hometown, people think, I'm finally gonna find this item that no one else has that's not just at Zara and H and M in big stores. And it became that. So it was almost like an offline IRL virality that then people started posting about it online. And really they were able to track. The first time the company went viral was a peloton's mom group, which was posting. I mean, these bags are giant, which is sort of funny. Like, the Stanley Quencher is humongous. These bags, they do come in different sizes.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

It's almost like this stuff has to take up a lot of space in your real life to take up space in your mind. Right.

[Allie Donaldson]

It's very existential. And so they do have different sizes, but their original one, which is was 60% of their sales, is pretty large. And so they would have these intricate videos of these women, and it's pretty much all women packing and unpacking them. And they would have dividers and smaller bags and containers and cup holders. And cup holders with Stanley's.

[Meta Ad]

These are my Amazon sports mom must have. I absolutely love my washable bog bag.

[Allie Donaldson]

And these cute charms.

[Meta Ad]

This waterproof picnic blanket with the carry strap is nice for lunch between games or letting little ones play. This tumbler is perfect for your morning coffee or hot beverages. And for those many hot afternoons, a Stanley tumbler and Liquid IV so we can stay hydrated.

[Allie Donaldson]

It's all just part of this same universe online. And after these peloton moms did it, they saw it was teachers was another big one. Think of all the things especially like a teacher has to lug to school that they would have all of their stuff. Nurses was another big category. And for some reason, I don't know what it says about us, people loved watching these videos of people perfectly packing little things nestled into this bag and then unpacking to show how much stuff they could pack.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Well, I mean, right? Our lives are chaos. Everyone wants a little sense of order.

[Diana Ransom]

When we come back, Allie takes us through the rise and popularity of bog bags. But first, a quick break.

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[Diana Ransom]

So when I was at the beach I did see a bog bag. I can happily report. I also in talking to Christine before the session heard a really useful I guess utility for the bog bag is putting your groceries in it. Sorry. That's like a game changer right there.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Right? Right. Even if you're just schlepping around. But it fits. It's got a square bottom too.

[Allie Donaldson]

So it just like hard bottom.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

It like sits in your car. Allie said they're like making tabletop.

[Allie Donaldson]

Is the founder.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Is this on the record? I'm sorry, I didn't this is in the works.

[Allie Donaldson]

Kim told me the founder and CEO so they're designing a tabletop so next time you see the bog bag at the beach next summer, it's a top you can put on to Put your sandwiches, your coffee, your drinks.

[Diana Ransom]

It's a tabletop for your bog bag.

[Allie Donaldson]

Oh yes. But people buy these things. I think this is why I described it as cult brand because it almost felt just so irrational of how much things people were buying.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. I mean like the economy, it's not great. Right now. People are struggling to buy groceries, yet $90 bags are selling like hotcakes. Like we were talking earlier about like how these brands become part of our identity. But like what did your, did your reporting show anything there?

[Allie Donaldson]

Yeah, it did. Cause if you think about it, so bog for their average customer has for their bag 4 to 5 accessories for their bag that they're buying through them. So accessories for their accessories.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Wait, I thought the bag was the accessory. Right? Accessories for accessories.

[Allie Donaldson]

Yeah. And so they have like similar to Crocs has those jibbits you can put in the holes.

[Diana Ransom]

Oh yeah, my kids are obsessed.

[Allie Donaldson]

Well get them a bag bag because they have these charms you could put in. They have tassels, they have cup holders, coolers that are inserted. So half the bag is a cooler, half is not. And so on average people have four of these. And similar. Kendra Scott, the company would tell me when a new consumer finds them and may find them through these outfit of the day videos that these young sorority women are posting. They're buying an average of four pieces of jewelry with their first purchase. And this is not like, yes, it's not Cartier, but it's not a cheap brand. You know, these are necklaces that are 65, 95, 100, even $300. They're doing a lot more in that fine demi, fine space. And so if you think about that checkout basket, if someone's ordering four to five pieces of that, a few hundred dollars. And so that's what I thought was super interesting about the why now of this story was at the same time we're hearing from a lot of CEOs in the consumer discretionary space, all these bellwethers, the Starbucks, the dollar general, the McDonald's saying that people are really strapped for cash. We have seen inflation come down from those 40 year highs we saw in 2021. But the prices have stayed high and people are fed up. They're fed up with that sticker shock. It's something economists have pointed out, the Federal Reserve has pointed out in that same environment, these fan bases for these cultures, brands which are largely women, are buying big on expensive items and leading these companies to have double, triple digit growth.

[Diana Ransom]

So what about, what about other quote Unquote cult brands like the Yetis of the world. Are they experiencing the similar uptick?

[Allie Donaldson]

I don't know about that. With Yeti, it was not part of the reporting, but I'm not sure. I mean Yeti is one of those ones that was part of the water bottle craze. But at the same time I feel like they have a sort of a different consumer base that's always going back to them which was more hunters, Fisher's men, women, fisher people.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Maybe they need a female friendly redesign.

[Diana Ransom]

They might, that might be the key to recession proofing your business apparently because.

[Allie Donaldson]

They had those high end coolers which I guess are really designed for folks that are doing things outdoors where you had your marlin fish you caught that you need to bring back to shore.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

You have to bear proof your fish obviously.

[Allie Donaldson]

And I don't know if it's still a thing, but it definitely was for a while. I knew, I feel like when I was in college it was a big ticket item people were asking for for Christmas. I always thought it was kind of why are you asking for a 500 dol cooler to just like put on your back porch? You're not doing anything that intense with this.

[Diana Ransom]

So I'd love to explore the idea of like how does a brand who's listening today like or a business owner who runs a brand, how do they try to adapt what we're hearing for their own businesses?

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Who could master the art of the drop or the collab or like find that spark of virality.

[Allie Donaldson]

It feels like this shows that any consumer product can really do that. I think the first step is figuring out what your hero marquee product is. Because I think what this has shown with the collabs and the limited drops is even if you do a like color that people don't like or like a certain design or pattern, it still is a product that underlying is strong and it has product market fit. So you're going to probably sell through that even if people don't like that specific color way. So I think it's having that hero product first, doing these limited edition versions that create that freshness, that fomo. And I think also too what Kendra Scott is doing right now, which is really interesting, is they're designing more products and expanding to really grow up with their consumer. They're expanding into more demi fine fine jewelry. They now have engagement rings, wedding rings and as their CEO Tom was telling me, he was like, the idea is that you know, maybe a young woman that discovered them in college with these sort of sorority colors. Now she might buy herself a nice present with her first job or her first bonus. She could get her engagement ring there, her wedding band, her push present. When she has kids, buy something for her kids, it'll become this brand that stays with you forever. And that's something too, because I think these leaders are very conscious of, yes, that they have had this cult status for a number of years and kept that virality alive, but they know that it can go away at any second.

[Diana Ransom]

What about kids, Kids jewelry? Are they. Is there like a children's line?

[Allie Donaldson]

I don't know if there's like a children's sizing. I probably would check online, but I guess you could do that.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

My daughter had like a Kendra Scott thing when she was 7, I think.

[Diana Ransom]

Oh, really? Yeah.

[Allie Donaldson]

Fancy. Okay.

[Diana Ransom]

So that seems like the natural progression.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Is just go right back to the youth.

[Allie Donaldson]

And what was interesting about that was, you know, their CEO Tumnal, and telling me that they have this intergenerational approach where they want someone's, you know, daughter to, like, come home and tell her mom, her grandmother, like, oh, this is cool brand. Or buy them a gift in reverse, wants, you know, Christine to go out and buy it for her daughter, who then, when she has her own money, could buy it herself. That it really works both ways. And I think that's what's interesting too, because these brands are so online and have really created this world around their brands, almost their own sense of vocabulary in universe. But at the same time, if you go on TikTok, if you go on Instagram Reels, YouTube shorts, it's not just Gen Z, Gen Alpha, that there are plenty of people that are Gen X on there.

[Diana Ransom]

I mean, I'm sitting here, I'm listening to you. I think it's all so fascinating. But as soon as bog bags becomes everybody has it ubiquitous, right? It loses the novelty, it loses the. I'm going to go get this for grandma. I'm going to go. I'm going to. Grandma's going to get this for me and I'm going to go share this with some so and so.

[Allie Donaldson]

In Diana Ransom's America, everyone has a bog bag. They've hit saturation.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

I mean, I think the founders of bog would love to hear that.

[Diana Ransom]

Well, think about it. Where does it end?

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Right.

[Allie Donaldson]

I think one thing that's good to remember about these is back to this idea of there is no monoculture. These are very big in this sort of subculture that's mostly a female demographic. You know, it's funny that like the Gen Z, Gen Alpha have labeled this as preppy on TikTok, which is not the preppy we may remember of like waspy prep school, East Coast Ralph Lauren. It's this idea of more athleisure, bright colors, Lululemon. And so it's all part of this world online. But at the same time, that's a subculture. So I think that there are ways for these brands to expand outside of that. I mean, this is like something I feel like Kendra Scott, CEO was saying. Yes. Like, if you're from the east coast, if you're from the Southeast, do you think that how much can this brand grow? But he's like, if you go elsewhere in the country or internationally, he's like, we really only have 10%, like brand recognition for the entire country. Most people don't know about them yet. And so they have to spread the word. And that's similar with Bog Bag. They really grew out of the Southeast and all these local boutiques. From there they went into larger wholesale partners, into Dillard's, if you're familiar.

[Diana Ransom]

Yeah, yeah, I know Dillard's.

[Allie Donaldson]

And from there in Bass Pro Shop. So it's very big in the Southeast. Trying to get more into the Northeast where they're based in New Jersey and just trying to expand to the rest of the country. Yeah.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

So they're not selling. They're not into the territory of selling out their hot target drops yet. Like Stanley.

[Allie Donaldson]

I mean, a lot of their colors, if you go online, there are more than 50 colors. A lot of them are not available.

[Diana Ransom]

And also to answer my question, really is that they could do a collab with another organization or another company that like caters to a different demographic entirely.

[Allie Donaldson]

Right. Yeah. I mean, I think too, especially if you think about it, they had definitely have customers that have never like seen them on TikTok like in Dillard's. They have a collaboration with Southern Living, which is like something that like my mom got sent to our house. When everyone still read print magazines, everyone get a print magazine subscribe at Inc. So I think about that demographic as probably very different. And they're probably trying to reach an older skew there than they are with their TikTok videos.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Interesting. We have to get post Malone on.

[Allie Donaldson]

This bag collaboration there, masks across and.

[Diana Ransom]

He could put his drink on top of the little table on top of the bag.

[Allie Donaldson]

We'll send him a message. He was at the VMAs with Taylor Swift.

[Diana Ransom]

Oh, nice. So what is Terrence doing now?

[Allie Donaldson]

So Terrence has a new job he left Stanley earlier this year back in April, and is actually back at Crocs, and he's now the president of hey dude. Which Crocs bought a number of years ago, so it's fully subsidiary of them. And if you're not familiar with this brand, I almost think of it as like a cross between a sneaker and. Do you remember, like, Clark's wallabies? Is that a thing in your childhood?

[Meta Ad]

Yeah.

[Diana Ransom]

No, it's like a boat shoe, but.

[Allie Donaldson]

More of a boot.

[Diana Ransom]

It's a boat boot. A boat boot.

[Allie Donaldson]

There's kind of a slip on. Comfy shoe. And it's kind of like. Stanley is much more of a male skew. Like, that has typically been there.

[Diana Ransom]

What do you mean?

[Allie Donaldson]

Like, like, even more men are wearing it and young men. I kind of feel like the people when I knew that had the brand. It's almost like the former fraternity boy who's in their 20s, and maybe now they're going to the craft brewery on the weekends. So it's, like, not quite hipster. Like, it's not really a New York brand you'd see in Brooklyn, but, like, has been very big. I've seen in the Southeast, in Virginia. Like, I know. Talking with two of our editorial assistants, Sydney. It's very big in Colorado as well.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

So boat shoes, Are they gonna be the next thing? The next thing?

[Allie Donaldson]

I don't know if I would call this a boat shoe.

[Diana Ransom]

It's not a boat shoe, but it sort of looks.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Yeah, I'm looking. It's boat shoe esque.

[Allie Donaldson]

And so it's interesting that Terrence is back there and back at a company that I think a lot of people know, but a lot of people don't know and has this male audience traditionally, and now I'm very curious to see what he does with this brand. Is it going to explode? I have been messaging him. We're trying to get the interview. Terrence, if you're listening, we'd love to have you on the pod.

[Diana Ransom]

Please talk to us.

[Allie Donaldson]

And so you can already see some things that he's doing with this strategy to get the brand out there. They've signed Sydney Sweeney as a brand ambassador and did this whole ad with her and talking about the comfort and, like, her wearing it on set. And, you know, she's one of the most in demand actresses right now and has been in a number of movies this summer. It kind of feels like that same sort of viral nature that he's trying to tap into online and sort of send the message to female consumers that this product is for you as well.

[Diana Ransom]

Oh, that. That's great. That's funny. So they're trying to do the crossover like you're traditionally male. And now we've got Terrence. We want women.

[Allie Donaldson]

But at the same time, it's funny too. I saw they also have done a collaboration. So back to the collab model with Nickelodeon. So they're doing spongebob versions. So I guess that would be more for the kids. And then they also, interestingly enough too, did something with Dave Portnoy of barstool fame for his pizza YouTube show. And so on its face, I feel like those are three kind of random things that I don't know how they go together. Then again, I'm quite bad at it's dudes.

[Diana Ransom]

They want dudes.

[Allie Donaldson]

I mean, I'm quite bad at New York Times Connections games. So maybe there is an overlap that we don't see. Terrence will have to tell us.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

I don't know. I mean, I think the Sydney Sweeney thing might not be marketing to women.

[Diana Ransom]

Oh, no. It's a similar reaction.

[Allie Donaldson]

It's just dudes. I guess we'll have to wait and see if he's able to bring that magic to the brand and the virality. But one thing that is interesting about that brand is when Crocs bought, it was already profitable. Like, even though it was a brand that a lot of people may not have heard of, it was really chugging along and doing well. And the founders had basically put no money into it, no money in advertising. And it turned a profit and just kind of taken over in like the Midwest and other places. Which, you know, I think.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Why do you say the Midwest like that?

[Allie Donaldson]

The magical Midwest. And it's interesting too, because I will say with Bog Bag too. Another thing that I thought was fascinating was Kim, their founder, was telling me they did not pay for advertising until earlier this year.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Wow.

[Diana Ransom]

And that they made the Inc 5000.

[Allie Donaldson]

Yes. And this is their second time on the Inc 5000. Last year they made $53 million in revenue.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Wow. So they've had at least four years of super fast growth.

[Allie Donaldson]

Yes. And they've kept going. I mean, this year they're on track. They said to hit more than 100 million by the end of the year. They've already sold more than 3 million of those bags in the first quarter alone.

[Diana Ransom]

They are topping the charts. This is what we are all paying attention to right now. This is amazing. Thank you so much for being on the program and telling us all about this wonderful story.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Yeah, thank you. Allie for tracking the hits of virality for us.

[Allie Donaldson]

Thank you for having me.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

That's all for this episode of from the Ground Up. If you want to read Ali's story on cult brands, you can find it.

[Diana Ransom]

On inc.com be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your podcast platform of choice. Also, if you like this episode or have suggestions of what topics you'd like to hear about, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or reach out to us on Inc's social channels on LinkedIn X or Instagram or TikTok.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

From the ground up is produced by Julia Xuan and Avery Miles, Editing by Blake Odom, mix and sound design by Nicholas Torres. Our executive producer is Josh Christensen.

[Diana Ransom]

Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week.

[Allie Donaldson]

Olivia.

[Listener 1]

Rodrigo, I love you.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

We are so skeptical as journalists that we don't like anything.

[Diana Ransom]

We don't like anything.

[Allie Donaldson]

Yeah.

[Diana Ransom]

So that's our podcast.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

No questions.

[Diana Ransom]

Not liking anything or not? Only fans.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Not only fans. Not ever.

[Allie Donaldson]

Not ever.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Fans. Okay. We can edit.

[Diana Ransom]

We can. We can delete that.

[Glenfiddich Ad]

Hi, listeners. I'm Blake Odom, producer of from the Ground Up. Today we have a special segment brought to you by inc. In collaboration with our partners at Glenfiddich Single malt Scotch whiskey. This year at the Inc 5000 gala, Glen Fiddick presented the inaugural Legacy Award to Stephen Marsh, founder of smarsh. This award recognizes a trailblazer, an individual who has graced the Ink 5000 list multiple times, embodying the spirit of innovation, boldness, and a relentless drive to defy the ordinary. Much like Glenfiddich, a brand that has pushed the boundaries of excellence throughout its 130 year history to become the world's most awarded single malt Scotch whiskey. Stephen Marsh exemplifies the courage and brilliance it takes to redefine industries and elevate the game. Inc. Editor in chief Mike Hoffman spoke with Stephen Marsh about his remarkable journey, the legacy he has built, and the honor of being the first recipient of this award presented by Glenn Fiddick. Here's that captivating conversation. Enjoy and be inspired.

[Listener 2]

Hi, I'm Mike Hoffman, editor in chief of inc. And I'm delighted to be here today with Steve Marsh, the founder of Smarsh, a multi time Inc 5000 honoree and the recipient of the INIT inaugural Inc. 5000 Legacy Award presented by Glenn Fiddick. Steve, thanks so much for joining me.

[Steve Marsh]

Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. Mike.

[Listener 2]

Yeah, this is great. Let me get this straight. You've been on the Inc. 5000 list 17 times so far.

[Steve Marsh]

I think that's correct. I think 17 times.

[Listener 2]

We double checked it. So you've been on the list 17 times. And how many years has the company been in business?

[Steve Marsh]

Since 2001, so about 23.

[Listener 2]

I guess you've been on the list more than you've not been on the list in the 23 years of your corporate life.

[Steve Marsh]

I think once we finally made the revenue threshold, we made the list and have been on it since.

[Listener 2]

Well, congratulations. It's amazing to make the Inc. 5000. It's amazing to make the Inc. 5000 a couple of times. And to make it 17 times puts you in really rare error. Only a few companies have made it more than 15 times. Congratulations. Now, you started the company in 2001, is that right?

[Steve Marsh]

That's right.

[Listener 2]

Your name is Steve marsh and the name of the company is smarsh. Do I have it right that your original email address had something to do with the ultimate name of the company?

[Steve Marsh]

I incorporated to do consulting work, never thinking that the business name would see the light of day. It was just incorporated as smarsh inc. Because marsh was taken by the large insurance company, so we couldn't use that. My friends at the time that my coworkers had all called me smarsh because that was like my email handle. So I said, hey, let's just go with that. The domain name was available, and many years later, with a larger marketing department and more resources available to us, more domain names available to us, we still decided to keep the name smarsh. But that should serve as proof that I never had intention of building this business into anything.

[Listener 2]

So who was your first client?

[Steve Marsh]

My first client was a small brokerage out of Boston, Massachusetts, and a friend of mine had worked there and had told me about this need to archive communications for regulatory compliance. And I knew virtually nothing. I mean, I knew absolutely nothing about that. I knew that I needed to make some money to pay rent and that I had some technology skills. So I set out to actually help them implement a solution that I thought I would source from another vendor and quickly found that there weren't other vendors out there doing this, at least to service the small and midsize companies. The business at that point pivoted from being a consulting business to being the archiving and communications intelligence business that it's become today.

[Listener 2]

When you started on the hockey stick like, trajectory of growth, what was the first moment, if you remember, where you knew, oh, this is not just a consulting business. This is a real Business, a technology business. And actually it's a fast growth technology business.

[Steve Marsh]

One moment that comes to mind is we had a large competitor in an adjacent space. They weren't archiving the way we were. They did data backup or something and they made an offer to buy the company, really in our first year of effort in trying to sell the archiving service. And it was hard as a founder to turn down. I think it was like a million dollars. But it was complicated, but we passed on it. That was a great decision. But that really validated for me that we had built something that was at least perceived to be of value to someone else. And of course, making the Inc. 5000 list for the first time after applying earlier that year and not being able to apply the year prior to that because we didn't meet the. We weren't big enough, we didn't meet the revenue thresholds. Anyway, when we made that list, that was fantastic validation for all the hard work that we had done. It gave us a sense of credibility when we would go out to our customers by being able to put the Inc. 5000 recipient logo on our emails and on our website. And that actually helped us grow to the next level.

[Listener 2]

Beyond that, you at some point took growth capital, private equity, is that right?

[Steve Marsh]

We did. It wasn't until 2007. Yeah. First investors were minority investors in 2007 and ironically, the point at which they became interested was a point at which we no longer needed money. And I think many founders probably go through this. When you're trying to raise money, it's a lot harder than when you don't need it. When you don't need it, everybody seems to come out of the woodwork and then they try to convince you why you should take money. I think that was a key moment where we realized we needed to significantly upgrade our technology infrastructure if we wanted to win bigger and bigger customers. We were making incremental changes every year. You know, the rip and replace that you hear technology companies go through, where every six months or so we were taking out old equipment, replacing it with new, bigger and better equipment. And that really just wasn't scalable. It was becoming a distraction to have to keep going through those projects every six months or so. By raising capital, we were able to get off that hamster wheel. And we were also able to start making some acquisitions. Became a part of life from that moment forward.

[Listener 2]

What did you learn about business ownership and business leadership going through the process of acquisitions?

[Steve Marsh]

You know, we gained access to people who had operated at the level beyond where we were, which is a pattern, you know, we'll see occur over and over in our business. But there were smarter people who had more experience in a variety of areas, and they presented some of the reasons why we would want to do some acquisitions. They also educated me and the rest of my team on how to do them. But it taught me that there are a variety of ways to help grow the business. You probably don't want to grow your business just doing acquisitions, although that does create value for a lot of companies. But for us, it was a combination of organic growth through innovation and product development and serving our customers with different products and services and making some of these acquisitions to bring in new technology, to bring in additional competitors, to bring in more expertise than we otherwise would possess. And today that trend continues. We're trying to bring in more AI expertise. For example, we might look to do an acquisition there.

[Listener 2]

Can I ask, where are you guys at revenue now?

[Steve Marsh]

We are about 500 million.

[Listener 2]

And what's the fastest growth part of the company right now?

[Steve Marsh]

There's a lot of focus on leveraging the data that we have stored on behalf of our customers. If you think about the initial use case for those that don't know, is that we help customers by storing their electronic communications so that they can meet meet regulatory requirements. You have to have this stuff. You have to be able to produce it. That's kind of the baseline service. But what we've found is that over the years, you start to amass more and more really valuable information on behalf of our customers. So we have years and years worth of emails, text messages, zoom calls, you know, whatever it may be. In a world where artificial intelligence is taking over and people are trying to find ways to harness the value of data, we're sitting on what we think is one of the biggest goldmines out there in terms of data. It's employee communications that were captured initially for a different reason, but now can be turned into sales opportunities, customer service opportunities, new product ideas. I think we're seeing a lot of growth.

[Listener 2]

So an archive can become a large language model.

[Steve Marsh]

Yeah.

[Listener 2]

So this is obviously the Inc. 5000 Legacy Award, brought to you by Glenn Fiddick. As you think about the legacy of the company and your legacy as a founder, what do you still hope for? What is your idea of what the legacy you want to leave is?

[Steve Marsh]

We have a very unique culture, I think one that reflects what I wanted to create many, many years ago. I want it to be an organization that hopefully my kids one day look back on and say, wow, dad must have built something pretty interesting here. It's still around, it's still relevant. Our customers still find value in what we're doing. I just want to see it reach its maximum potential. Not every company, even, you know, not every company that is started or that I'm involved in or that I invest in has the same opportunity to persist through time. Some companies are better as a short term product that maybe gets sold to someone else and they integrate the technologies. Some technologies have a shorter lifespan where maybe it's two to three years and then you have to move on. This is a business that I believe truly has the opportunity to exist for many, many years and to be relevant by just listening to customers and adapting and finding or addressing use cases that we found many years ago.

[Listener 2]

Steve Marsh, the founder of Smarsh half billion dollar company founded in a Brooklyn apartment that's been on the Inc. 5000 list 17 times. Thanks so much for joining us today.

[Steve Marsh]

Thanks for having me.

[Listener 2]

And before I let you go, we have these glasses of Glenn Fiddick here you are the inaugural recipient of the Inc. 5000 Legacy Award presented by Glen Fiddick. So let's cheers to your success.

[Steve Marsh]

Cheers.

[Glenfiddich Ad]

Congratulations again to Stephen Marsh. And I couldn't end this episode without getting a little taste of Glen fitting myself. And since I got a bottle right here. Cheers to you listeners with Glen Fiddick, the world's most awarded single malt Scotch whiskey. Drink responsibly. Glen Fiddick single malt Scotch Whiskey is copyrighted 2024 and imported by William Grant & Sons, Inc. New York, NY.