Is the Celeb-Founder Era Over? Plus, the Women Back in Charge

Summary

Podcast Summary: From the Ground Up – Episode: "Is the Celeb-Founder Era Over? Plus, the Women Back in Charge" (Released February 17, 2025)

In this insightful episode of From the Ground Up, hosted by Inc. Magazine’s Executive Editor Diana Ransom and Editor-at-Large Christine Lagorio-Chafkin, a roundtable discussion delves into the evolving landscape of female entrepreneurship. Joined by freelance writer Issy Lipowski and senior editor Rebecca Dashinski, the hosts explore the triumphs, challenges, and shifting dynamics facing women founders today.

Expanding the Female Founders List

Diana opens the conversation by highlighting Inc.'s annual list of the most dynamic women in business, which has impressively grown from 100 to 500 featured women this year. This expansion underscores the increasing presence and influence of women in the entrepreneurial sphere.

Diana Ransom [00:24]: “We started out by featuring 100 women annually for about three years. And then we moved it up to 250 because there was just so many women we wanted to feature. And then check this out—we're featuring 500 women this year.”

State of Female Entrepreneurship Amid Backlash

Christine introduces the discussion on the current political climate, marked by anti-DEI sentiments and societal pushbacks, and how these factors interplay with the surge in female entrepreneurship.

Christine Lagorio-Chafkin [01:10]: “It's a really weird political moment... I wanted to talk with you all about the headwinds facing women founders and also just what else is going on more broadly.”

Booming Female Entrepreneurship: Insights from Issy Lipowski

Issy Lipowski reveals compelling data indicating a significant rise in female entrepreneurship since 2019. Despite the pandemic-induced workforce exodus, women have started businesses at twice the rate of men between 2019 and 2023.

Issy Lipowski [02:00]: “Wells Fargo had put out a report that showed actually female entrepreneurship has been booming since 2019. Women had started businesses at twice the rate of men between 2019 and 2023.”

Globally, women now represent approximately one-third of high-growth company entrepreneurs, signaling a positive trend even amidst societal challenges.

Challenges in Venture Capital Funding

Despite the growth, Issy points out a discouraging decline in venture capital (VC) funding for female-only entrepreneurs, now constituting merely 1.8% of VC investments. This contrasts sharply with a 20% increase when female founders have male co-founders.

Issy Lipowski [05:01]: “There's actually been a small but perceptible decline in venture capital funding for female-only entrepreneurs. So it's like 1.8% of the venture capital pie now.”

This limited access to funding hampers the ability of women-led startups to achieve significant exits and accumulate wealth, perpetuating existing gender disparities in business success.

Diversification and Resilience in Women-Owned Businesses

While 90% of women-owned businesses remain solopreneurs concentrated in traditional service industries like beauty and hair care, there's a promising diversification into sectors such as waste management, insurance, and real estate.

Issy Lipowski [05:01]: “It's encouraging that women are branching out in different directions. What's discouraging is that they are not getting the funding to do it at the same rates as men.”

Rebecca emphasizes that women entrepreneurs prioritize societal benefits, striving to create businesses that support community functionality rather than solely targeting financial gains.

Issy Lipowski [09:06]: “They have to find better ways to account for that work and for that contribution that doesn't just result in massive exits, VC funding and all of that.”

Case Studies: Resilient Female Founders

The discussion highlights successful women who have creatively navigated the funding landscape:

• Jessica Schaefer of Lushy: Overcame lack of understanding from male investors by securing $5 million in pre-seed funding from couples and individuals experienced with IVF and egg freezing.

  Rebecca Dashinski [11:09]: “She ended up getting $5 million in pre-seed funding backed exclusively by couples and individuals who had undergone IVF or dealt with infertility themselves.”

• Shelly Aronoff of Interplant: Raised a substantial $30 million Series B led by North American farmers, showcasing strong community-backed investment.

  Rebecca Dashinski [12:36]: “She ended up raising a $30 billion Series B, which is led by an alliance of North American farmers.”

The Decline of Celebrity Founders

A significant segment addresses the waning trend of celebrity-backed startups. While stars like Kim Kardashian with Skims remain influential, there's observable fatigue and skepticism toward influencer-led businesses.

Christine Lagorio-Chafkin [27:15]: “I'm just a little tired... It's probably this search for authenticity.”

Listeners noted reduced representation of celebrity founders on Inc.'s list, reflecting a broader shift towards valuing authenticity over fame.

Issy Lipowski [27:16]: “I think there's a vibe happening where people are maybe kind of fed up with celebrity oriented businesses.”

Rebecca predicts that celebrity brands must evolve to sustain themselves without relying solely on the star's persona.

Rebecca Dashinski [30:53]: “People have hit peak exposure, and I think that's why celebrity brands can only succeed if they are able to eventually exist without the celebrity.”

Future Predictions and Trends

The hosts and guests share their outlook on the future of female entrepreneurship:

• Shift in Marketing Strategies: Moving away from celebrity endorsements towards AI-driven marketing and authentic founder-driven narratives.

  Christine Lagorio-Chafkin [33:35]: “Another thing we should be watching is a shift toward in marketing budgets away from maybe the celebrity partnerships and toward AI.”

• Authentic Communication: Founders increasingly using platforms like Substack to share genuine, transparent stories of their entrepreneurial journeys.

  Rebecca Dashinski [35:00]: “Founders being really open and transparent about their entrepreneurial journey... something about writing that feels a little bit more genuine and authentic.”

• Sustainability and Flexibility: Emphasizing the need for flexible business models that can adapt to changing economic and social landscapes.

Concerns Ahead

Issy raises concerns about potential setbacks, such as the federal government reducing support for women-owned businesses and major tech companies stepping back from diversity-focused contracting.

Issy Lipowski [36:39]: “We're seeing massive tech companies like Meta saying we're no longer going to be explicitly trying to contract with women owned or minority owned businesses.”

Nevertheless, the overall message remains hopeful, acknowledging that the foundational support systems for women entrepreneurs have yielded significant progress.

Issy Lipowski [37:50]: “All of that work has worked, so that may make it worth staying the course if you are in a position to do so.”

Spotlight on Maven Clinic

The episode also features an in-depth look at Maven Clinic, a trailblazing female-founded virtual health clinic for women and families. Under CEO Kate Rider, Maven navigates the complex post-Roe landscape by expanding services to include fertility consultations, pediatrics, and menopause services, while integrating Medicaid to support underserved communities.

Issy Lipowski [21:07]: “Maven Clinic... it's now valued at $1.7 billion. It raised $125 million in October. It was the first major unicorn in women's health.”

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a blend of optimism and caution. While celebrating the resilience and innovation of female entrepreneurs, the hosts acknowledge the ongoing challenges and emphasize the importance of continued support and authentic leadership in driving future success.

Diana Ransom [34:52]: “They're always going to be crafty, they're always going to be innovative and we're not going away.”

Key Takeaways:

• Growth vs. Funding: Female entrepreneurship is on the rise, but access to venture capital remains limited.
• Diversification: Women are expanding into diverse industries, though many remain solopreneurs.
• Authenticity Over Fame: There's a noticeable shift away from celebrity-backed startups towards authentic, founder-driven narratives.
• Future Trends: Increased use of AI in marketing and more genuine communication strategies are expected.
• Ongoing Challenges: Potential reductions in federal and corporate support pose threats to sustained growth.

For a comprehensive look at the most dynamic women in business, be sure to check out Inc.’s expanded Female Founders list releasing on March 11th.

Transcript

[Diana Ransom]

I'm inc. Executive editor Diana Ransom.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

And I'm editor at large Christine Ligorio Chavkin.

[Diana Ransom]

This is from the ground up.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

For today's episode, we are having a special roundtable discussion with some of the topics in our latest female founders issue. Here to talk with us are freelance writer Issy Lipowski and senior editor Rebecca Dashinski. Hey, guys.

[Issy Lipowski]

Hi.

[Diana Ransom]

Hi.

[Issy Lipowski]

Thanks for having us.

[Diana Ransom]

Thanks for being here. So, Christine, we're talking about female founders and just a little bit about this package, that which is near and dear to all of us here. We've been running this list. Basically, it's a list of the most dynamic women in business. We started out by featuring 100 women annually for about three years. And then we, we moved it up to 250 because we just thought there was so many women we wanted to feature. And then check this out. We're featuring 500 women this year, which is going to kill us all, but we're doing it anyway.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

You are almost done with putting together the list, right?

[Diana Ransom]

At this point, I'm at the. Yeah, I'm. I feel like I need to knock on wood. But anyway, so it's, It's a great list. It's interesting. We don't often talk about women in entrepreneurship enough, so it's. It's nice to be able to highlight their accolades.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

I mean, we talk about them a lot. We don't like, pull them out for specific examination. And I think in this issue, like you guys have, in making the issue, I should say, you guys have really examined a few different trends and you've been able to sort of witness what's happening with the state of female entrepreneurship. This is a really weird political moment that we are in, where anti DEI is in headlines and different conspiracy theories, it seems like every day. So I wanted to talk with you all about kind of the headwinds facing women founders and also just what else is going on more broadly, like what else you've witnessed in putting together this issue. So iss, you wrote the essay that sort of leads off our issue about the state of female entrepreneurship. What did you start on in reporting this and what did you observe?

[Issy Lipowski]

Yeah, so the assignment was pretty broad. It was, what is the state of women's entrepreneurship today?

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

We gave you.

[Diana Ransom]

No bad answer.

[Issy Lipowski]

Exactly. But that was actually very freeing because, yes, we do hear in the like, cultural zeitgeist about this backlash to dei, but I wanted to know, what do the numbers say? I knew that there was simultaneously this big explosion in post pandemic entrepreneurship. So what did that mean for women's entrepreneurship. And very helpfully, some research had come out recently on that topic. So Wells Fargo had put out a report that showed actually female entrepreneurship has been booming since 2019. Women had started businesses at twice the rate of men between 2019 and 2023. Yeah. Incredible. And then I looked globally and there was another report that came out from the Global Entrepreneurship Monitor and that also showed a massive explosion in female entrepreneurship. Women now represent something like 1 in 3 high growth companies were entrepreneurs around the world. Yeah. So there were all these really encouraging signs for women's entrepreneurship at the same time that we're seeing this backlash and the curtailment of all sorts of rights for women and whatnot. So I thought that that was really interesting to take a deeper look at. Why was it that in this really challenging environment where you have a pandemic and you have all this social and cultural backlash, you have women kind of coming out of the woodwork to start businesses?

[Diana Ransom]

Well, I mean, a lot of women ended up leaving the workforce, you know, during the pandemic. And I think that, you know, what we're seeing now, or what we sort of started seeing a couple of years ago, was that they were starting their own companies as a result of, like being sidelined, right?

[Issy Lipowski]

Yes, exactly. So the headlines all over the place during the pandemic were that women were leaving the workforce by the millions. Some were, you know, laid off because they happened to work in primarily service industries. Some lacked childcare and decided to stay home. What we found is that, you know, all those women, you know, didn't necessarily go rushing back to their nine to fives, a lot of them. I spoke with folks who were saying, you know, there was sort of this massive reset of priorities during the pandemic where people suddenly had time to spend with their kids, they had time to do all of the other labor that they do at home and liked having that time, and so decided that, you know, if the corporate world is going to be a less hospitable environment for women, if we're going to see this backlash against dei, like, screw it, I'm gonna work for myself.

[Diana Ransom]

Yeah, that's interesting. I wonder if we're gonna see more of this.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Just a rearrangement of priorities. Right. In life. And I'd see that in my friends who have regular 9 to 5 ish jobs as well too. Right. There's been a rebalancing. But that said, I mean, being an entrepreneur is not necessarily a part time job. And I don't wanna make it sound like it is one. Did you. What about the financial data? I mean we' watching for years the venture capital funding for women just like.

[Diana Ransom]

Sit like around 3% for ones who would have the male co founder.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Have you seen any movement there or just change in the ecosystem? That's a little sunny.

[Issy Lipowski]

Yeah, it's not sunny, unfortunately. So while we've had this massive explosion of female entrepreneurship, there's actually been a small but perceptible decline in venture capital funding for female only entrepreneurs. So it's like 1.8% of the venture capital high now. And then if you add a male co founder, it shoots up to like 20%. So that's a pretty telling statistic. But so all of which is to say, you know, a lot of these businesses that I'm talking about are not massive venture backed companies. Like I think something like 90% of them are solopreneurs. A lot of them are concentrated in a few industries. So those industries may be sort of services like nail salons or hair care. But some of the encouraging news is that those industries are diversifying. So female owned businesses had been sort of concentrated in a few industries for a very long time. Now they're seeing growth in other things like waste management and you know, a whole bunch of other industries like insurance, real estate. Exactly. And so it's encouraging that women are branching out in different directions. What's discouraging is that they are not getting the funding to do it at the same rates as men or even close. And so therefore that itself still means that women are not, you know, getting the big exits. And that is not perpetuating. As I was talking to some investors in this space, you know, that's not creating commensurate wealth for women, even women who are at the top of their game. And wealth equals power in this country. And so that is still a massive hurdle that women, even the most successful female entrepreneurs face.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Taking venture capital. Right. Always has a lot of risks involved in it. And that includes, you know, losing, losing your own business, the potential for losing your own business, losing your own vision, straying from the original mission.

[Diana Ransom]

So yeah, there's, there's a definite trade.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Off benefits to bootstrapping, even if it does inhibit that kind of explosive growth. And like you're saying, the wealth creation.

[Issy Lipowski]

Especially these last few years when the VC market has contracted.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Yeah.

[Issy Lipowski]

And so what is was interesting is some of the investors I spoke to said, you know, women are kind of a little bit more, let's say durable. Women owned businesses are a little bit more durable. They're kind of used to doing more with less. And so in times when the VC market is tight, like they can still kind of make it work. And so that was another sort of trend that maybe contributed to these women owned businesses surpassing the creation of men, male owned businesses during this kind of tricky financing period.

[Diana Ransom]

Did you happen to talk to people about where we go from here?

[Issy Lipowski]

There's still a lot of questions. Right. Because the data that we're looking at is 2019 to 2023. Right. All the reports that come out in 2024 are looking back. We are looking now, I think, at a huge tidal wave of backlash to MeToo, to DEI initiatives, to all of that. It's starting to feel like any woman in a position of power is being named a DEI hire. And that is really worrisome. It's definitely worrisome that women's slice of the VC pie shrank. And so I think that it still remains to be seen whether these trends continue or whether the force is working in opposition of women in business. This call for, you know, more masculine energy in the workforce. Mark Zuckerberg, whether that ends up curtailing the growth of female owned businesses, I talked to a really interesting researcher who was saying we also would benefit from shifting our lens on how we think about equality in this space. Right. So As I mentioned, 90% of these women owned businesses are solopreneurs. They're concentrated in industries that aren't going to have massive exits. And so we look at that and we say, ah, it's unequal. But what we don't account for is all the stuff women are doing like these. These businesses might not be built for big exits, but they do serve a really foundational purpose in society.

[Rebecca Dashinski]

Right.

[Issy Lipowski]

They are the things that make communities function and all of that. And so we have to find better ways to account for, for that work and for that contribution that doesn't just result in massive exits, VC funding and all of that. Women, you know, are more likely to chase businesses that have some sort of like societal benefit, the research shows. And there should be a way to count that.

[Diana Ransom]

And they start nonprofits too.

[Issy Lipowski]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Diana Ransom]

In a sort of large. That's a nice segue for our list because this year we actually did feature nonprofit entrepreneurs to.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Is this the first time? This is the first. 2025. First.

[Diana Ransom]

Okay, so we have, we have. I mean, I don't want to give it away, but we definitely have some strong contenders on our list. So anyway, just to your point, Issy, about the fact that, you know, women are very Useful for society.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

I mean, I do think there's this moment of backlash too that is just maybe beginning, just kindling. The Trump presidency is pretty new. These sort of loud voices talking about anti di and talking about raising these conspiracy theories. I mean, there's almost not been time to sort of regroup any sort of counter effort to that. And I do see a lot.

[Diana Ransom]

But we're dealing with it, we're dealing with it in real time though.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Absolutely.

[Diana Ransom]

Like it's all changing, like in record time. One day you're dealing with one challenge, the next day it's totally different challenge. Yet it's, it's equally cataclysmic.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Yeah. And I mean, that is to say also women owned businesses are going through the same very hurdles right now in terms of dealing with their international supply chain and dealing with everything else and like having to resteer all their employees efforts. So yeah, it's the same and more for them right now to deal with.

[Diana Ransom]

One thing that is true every year is that as you point out, you know, the funding landscape for women is just never, never been good. So women founders end up having to be crafty and creative about where they source their funding. So a neat trend that we spotted from the list this year is that women were really creative. And Rebecca, I would love for you to sort of. What did you find in that realm?

[Rebecca Dashinski]

Yeah, we found that founders have been a little bit more specific in who they're targeting for their funding. So one company we saw, Lushy, they are a company that is trying to make egg freezing and IVF a lot easier for people who seek those kinds of services. This founder, Jessica Schaefer, she ran into a very common problem that female founders face, which is that a lot of the male investors that she approached didn't really understand the purpose of her company or why this kind of service was so ne.

[Diana Ransom]

You should just quit your job and have babies.

[Rebecca Dashinski]

Yeah.

[Diana Ransom]

Why would you want to freeze your eggs?

[Issy Lipowski]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Dashinski]

So basically she ended up getting $5 million in pre seed funding backed exclusively by couples and individuals who had undergone IVF or dealt with infertility themselves. I think we've seen other female founders embrace this kind of strategy before too, like really finding their audience. Another standout was Shelly Aronoff, whose company Interplant. Basically they have created an insights platform that tries to help farmers to have better soybean yields. So it has pretty staggering implications for the overall agricultural system. And she ended up raising a $30 billion Series B, which is led by an alliance of North American farmers, which is the highest amount of capital raised directly from farmers to date. So.

[Diana Ransom]

So it's sort of like crowdfunding.

[Rebecca Dashinski]

Yeah, exactly.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

But like directly targeting your customers and forming an alliance with them from the start, that is, you know, their shareholders as well.

[Rebecca Dashinski]

Yeah. And it might seem a bit unconventional, but something that Shelley pointed out was that farmers tend to really embrace technology. So this is a tool that obviously is going to benefit them. So they seem just really poised to be the ones to allow it to happen.

[Diana Ransom]

That's fascinating. And also, you know, obviously the traditional sources of bootstrapping was, was obviously very common. Another trend that we saw was women entrepreneurs basically buying back their companies. And it was really cool. Right. You know, you maybe, maybe they sold out to a private equity company or maybe they sold out to like, you know, massive conglomerate or something like that, and they just saw that it was maybe poorly managed or they weren't treating their baby well and they, they just, you know, took the baton into their own hands and like bought their. And I'm sure that this happens every year, but it happened in a pretty significant way.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Like, how did you spot this trend? You just saw the companies on the list and you.

[Diana Ransom]

Well, there was like a prominent one company called Next Door, which we all, we all might have heard of. Right. So the founder, Rebecca, you want to talk about her?

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Dashinski]

So Sarah Leary, she came back to Nextdoor after departing for just a few years. She came back in July to lead marketing community. All that good stuff. And in less than a year, the company has seen a ton of growth from that. They have more than 90 million neighbors on the platform.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Meaning people. Yeah, users.

[Rebecca Dashinski]

Actually, let me correct that. They had, they had more than 90 million and now they have nearly 100 million. So adding 10 million in less than a year. They've had double digit, year over year growth in revenue and weekly active users. She's also overseen a lot of their new formats for their advertising, which I think something is something that a lot of companies are struggling with and have been struggling with, especially as we've seen the media ecosystem evolve over the past couple years. So it seems pretty telling that she's someone who really like raised this company. So it almost is like she knows it best in order to help it grow even further.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she sort of integrated the ads and like being able to own your business profile like into the company. Because people often go to Nextdoor to ask their neighbors, like, hey, do you have a handyman? Hey, do you have a plumber? And then they can say, yeah, and link to Jerry's Plumbing, you know, so it's sort of natural.

[Diana Ransom]

It's also interesting that she was running this company and then stepped away for a few years and decided, you know, and then like came back to it, you know, and.

[Rebecca Dashinski]

Sure.

[Diana Ransom]

And then we also featured Jennifer Hyman, who we all know. She never left her company, first of all, but she was interesting in the sense that she has taken run the Runway public and then under her, you know, Rebecca, you wrote about her for this issue. But the thing that jumped out at me was that she was always the CEO. As all of her contemporaries basically have left their companies in one way, shape or form. Maybe they've stepped into the chairperson role or maybe they've, you know, basically hired another CEO and they're. They've become creative or something, creative director, which is. Which is kind of lovely. I mean, wouldn't we all love to do that? But I think it's cool that she kind of like maintained the CEO role.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

So she's not back. She's just still there.

[Diana Ransom]

She's still there. But like, how do you. How do you leave? You leave and you come back or you just stay.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Right. What happened with Neat Method? That was another one, right?

[Diana Ransom]

Neat was another example of a company.

[Rebecca Dashinski]

Yeah. So Neat Method, it's two female co founders, Ashley and Marissa. They had sold the company in 2017 to a product manufacturer. If you're unfamiliar with Neat Method, it's basically a home organizing.

[Diana Ransom]

They're like Marie Kondo for, you know, all the.

[Rebecca Dashinski]

All the bins that you need to organize all your stuff. They actually bought the company back in 2023. Their sentiment was that they had just kind of outgrown their owner. And before the acquisition, they were valued at 100 million. Now the founders told business of Home that that number is closer to 15 million. So it seems like there's been some pretty significant growth there.

[Diana Ransom]

This is all so interesting in the context of like, larger trends in the world of like, female entrepreneurship is that, you know, you have companies like you all hear about the Laundress and Gwen Whiting and, you know, what happened there. So she. That was, you know, a big story. We didn't necessarily cover it at Inc. But basically she had sold her company to. I think it was Unilever.

[Rebecca Dashinski]

I think so, yeah.

[Diana Ransom]

And then there was kind of controversy about PFAS or something like that in the actual product. And she came out and had to basically publicly say, this is not my creation. Which is hard because, like, you. This is your baby and you have to like, distance yourself from it. But there was also an issue with Myel, you know, Monique Rodriguez's company. So she had to step up and be like, after an acquisition, step up and be like, this is still a good product and you're having to defend your company after it's been acquired, which is kind of a weird situation.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

What's coming to my mind is why now? Like, why are so many female founders kind of coming back to their companies? When I was working my book on Reddit, one of the original founders of the company came back and he said one really insightful thing, which was that when he started back there after being gone for many years, the company was in a really dark place and he had to make a lot of big changes, as it seems like some of these might have to do. And he said, like, I think only the founder has the moral authority to make those sort of decisions and to have the employees actually buy in and believe it. Do you think that's the case or something else going on here sort of culturally or individually in these companies? Is it just a different circumstance each?

[Rebecca Dashinski]

I feel like something that we've been hearing a lot about in the past year is this idea of founder mode, so no one's going to care about your company more than you do. And this is something that I was talking to Jen Hyman about, and she really firmly believes that everyone at a company should be kind of exemplifying founder mode, really feeling agency over their work. And I think one of the reasons why she's been able to, to really lead Rent the Runway for more than 15 years now is that she, you know, comes to her work with like a fresh perspective every day. One thing that she told me was that about every three years she rehires herself into her role as CEO.

[Diana Ransom]

You get the job.

[Issy Lipowski]

You get the job. Yes.

[Rebecca Dashinski]

I am not sure if she. This involves more HR onboarding or anything else she does with this, but it's basically taking the mindset of not getting stuck in patterns that aren't working anymore. She also reorganized the company last spring into different startups. Each of these startups are a cross departmental group, all targeting one specific goal for the company. So one, for instance, is focused on really revitalizing the brand's occasion wear rental service. And so they have, you know, engineers, marketing people, everyone that can just really focus on that one specific, specific goal. So she seems like she's been really successful in kind of getting everyone on board. She also told me that she's exceptionally proud that people who have left rent the Runway have gone on to hire executive roles or found their own companies. So she's really fostered the spirit of entrepreneurship in her own organization.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

We'll be back with a remarkable story of women changing medicine and the future of the celebrity, quote, unquote, co founder right after this. Another theme that we noticed this year was a lot of women in health care, female founders doing things that are so creative and so sort of outside of the mainstream. Like as we're seeing a lot of criticism of our mainstream healthcare and insurance system and these big bureaucracies, women starting fresh, new ideas. Now, one that is not exactly brand new, but has been on our radar at Inc. For years is Maven Clinic. And Issy wrote a fantastic feature about Maven this year. So I'd love to just hear about it. Hear what's new at Maven and hear what you loved about the company.

[Issy Lipowski]

Sure. So Maven Clinic, for those who don't know, is the largest virtual health clinic for women and families. And you're right, it is not new. It's been around for about a decade. Yeah.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

You say the largest. I'm like, this is not exactly a fresh startup anymore.

[Issy Lipowski]

Yes. It is now valued at $1.7 billion. It raised $125 million in October. It was the first major unicorn in women's health. So it has a pretty solid track record. What is new for Maven is that, you know, it was founded in 2014 at a time when Kate Rider, CEO and founder, you know, told me I had no concept that we were about to see the end of Roe v. Wade. So she founded it in a very different world than she is running it in now. She's now running this, whose mission is to expand healthcare for women at a time when women's healthcare and reproductive rights are being curtailed in half the country. And so now she's faced with this brand new challenge and opportunity where, you know, Maven can kind of be a backstop for women who live in maternity care deserts or who need to consult their options in states where, you know, it's basically foreboding to discuss those options with the doctor. At the same time, her company is now thrust into this really complex and constantly shifting legal landscape where they have to make sure they're in compliance, but they are a telehealth platform, and they're treating across state lines, and the rules are gray and blurry right now as to what is legal and what is not. So it's a really interesting time at Maven. It's growing and it's Expanding. And in some ways, its mission is more urgent than ever, but also far more complex than ever.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

What's the business model? It works directly with companies as well as individuals. Is that right?

[Issy Lipowski]

Yes. So, you know, you could go on Maven and, you know, book a virtual health appointment if you wanted to, but most of its business comes through employers. They work with tons of employers across the country. You know, Microsoft, Morgan Stanley, and those employers might incorporate Maven into their health plans and offer it to their employees. And, you know, Maven has grown to include, you know, fertility consultations, but also pediatrics and menopause services and all this stuff. And the idea is that by partnering with this virtual health clinic, it can help save these companies a lot of money because they're giving people access to proactive treatment. For instance, Maven has done some research that shows, you know, when people work with virtual doulas on their platform, it dramatically reduces C section rates, which is obviously good for the patients, but it's also good for the payer because it's a lot cheaper to not have a C section. So there are a lot of reasons why companies want Maven to be part of their health services.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Absolutely.

[Diana Ransom]

Well, also, Maven has incorporated Medicaid into its platform.

[Issy Lipowski]

Exactly.

[Diana Ransom]

That's also really fascinating.

[Issy Lipowski]

So when the law started to change, first there was a law in Texas, SB8, that puts serious restrictions on abortion in Texas. And, you know, they kind of saw the writing on the wall that Roe might be next, and so they started sort of the wheels turning, trying to prepare for, okay, how are we going to deal with this? We can create some tools for helping people, like, understand their options when they get pregnant. And we also want to expand more into Medicaid, because who is going to be most impacted by restrictions to abortion? It's going to be poor women. And Medicaid is already responsible for a huge number of births in this country. I can't remember the number off the top of my head, but a very large number. And so they have been expanding into a number of states where Maven is offered to Medicaid recipients.

[Diana Ransom]

What I loved about it was that you. You highlighted the. A couple of venture capitalists in this story where they talk about the opportunity that even though, you know, women's health rights are being curtailed across the country, we're not going away. We still are 50% of the country, and we still, like, have needs. And so, if anything, you know, like, women's health care and startups that cater to them are very necessary still. So there's still like optimism here.

[Issy Lipowski]

Exactly. Actually, when you and I were discussing the story initially, I remember that our kind of hunch was that, oh, all the funding is going to dry up for women's health because it's too dicey and it's too risky, it's too uncertain and investors don't like uncertainty. But what I've found was really the opposite of that. That there still is, you know, as these laws are being passed, it's creating more and more gaps in the system and more and more opportunities for companies to step in and fill. Fill those gaps. So I thought that was really interesting.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

I love it.

[Diana Ransom]

So fascinating.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

All right, guys. I think the time has come to talk about maybe the most apparent trend on our female founders list, one that has been gracing our covers for years now. I have not seen the latest cover, but Diana, can you give me the over view on where we are at with celebrity founders?

[Diana Ransom]

Okay, so we are not at Inc. We are no way shape or form against celebrity founders. But we did.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Why do you say it like that? Are you a little.

[Diana Ransom]

Again, no, no, no. You know, you love celebrity founders. I think it's fun. I think it's fun to have a little dazzle, a little razzle dazzle in the, in the package. And we do have that. We have, you know, like Gwyneth Paltrow is on our list, for instance. Like there's definitely some razzle dazzle, but. But we noticed that there's less of it this year and that was kind of interesting. Kim Kardashian is on our list again this year too. So Skims is obviously an impressive company and they're launching into brick and mortar in a big way this past year too. So success is success. But there is, what we're noticing is some degree of fatigue with celebrities. And I don't know if you found this, Rebecca, when we're putting together the list, but it seems like fewer of them kind of like graced our pages generally.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Interesting. Fewer applications with a bold face name already attached to them. Right?

[Diana Ransom]

Yeah.

[Issy Lipowski]

Yeah.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Interesting.

[Diana Ransom]

I think there's a vibe happening where people are maybe kind of fed up with celebrity oriented businesses. I'm just a little tired.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Just a little like, oh, okay. Yeah.

[Diana Ransom]

I mean, how do you feel?

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Well, I just was searching on Reddit, in fact, because I wanted to see if. Cause I have felt that personally, but I wanted to see like what else was coming up. So I was looking at some, the skincare and beauty subreddits. Sure enough, there are lots of posts saying one of Them I found in R Beauty guru chatter. Celebs need to stop creating beauty brands is one I another in R. Sephora said, does anybody else avoid celebrity founded brands? I mean, I think there is this sort of like it's been overdone probably.

[Diana Ransom]

It's probably this search for authenticity, you know, like if it's authentic and like skims to some degree is authentic. And I am not necessarily like a Kim Kardashian Stan here, keep it up. But it's like she needed the cool, modern girdle, you know, and like people need that potentially. And people who start companies because they had a skin problem and they started a beauty company, I mean, at least there's that authenticity there.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Sure, sure.

[Diana Ransom]

Where it's a problem when you start like a luggage company and you're an influencer, like, what does that even mean?

[Issy Lipowski]

I wonder if there's just burnout with the amount of stuff that people are being sold by influencers and celebrities, like celebrities used to be tied to one brand and now if you go on TikTok, celebrities are hawking every single brand and every single item that also the regular people are hawking.

[Diana Ransom]

Yeah.

[Issy Lipowski]

So I wonder if there's just like a lot of burnout with being sold on stuff.

[Diana Ransom]

But that's so true.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Remember a couple years ago we were discussing the same thing and it came up that investors, when they were talking to startup brands, especially in makeup, especially in beauty, were asking founders, who's your celebrity? You know, who's your co founder?

[Diana Ransom]

Like, you couldn't endorse celebrity co founder.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

And I think that era might be slowing down.

[Diana Ransom]

I have a good, I mean, a good example from our list this year is Goodalls. So we, we interviewed the founder for our podcast, Jen Zesoot. But she has a co founder, not a co founder. Co founder. Founding partner in Wonder Woman, Gal Gadot. But Goodalls is so popular, she doesn't need a woman.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

I didn't even know that. Right.

[Diana Ransom]

She doesn't need Wonder Woman. She didn't even need the celebrity. Which is kind of wild to have the celebrity and you don't even need them. Yeah.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

If that's not a superpower anymore, I don't know.

[Diana Ransom]

I'm sure maybe it helped initially to get some sort of media attention. So maybe it's helpful for that spark, but maybe for longevity actually in, you know, before we, before we sat down to talk here, I was doing a little bit of looking around to see if like the fatigue was real. Like, are we, are we just feeling it ourselves? Because we're so close to it. So one example that I saw just in doing brief search was that Cora this. It's like a beauty brand started by Miranda Kerr, who is, you know, basically Victoria's secret angel. Like, she's. She's a supermodel, but basically it's an older company. It started in the 2000s, like late aughts, and as they've been growing the business, they've been, like, moving away, away from her celebrity. You know, they're trying to lean into more of, like, here's why the brand is great versus here's our great celebrity. And I think that's interesting and it's kind of a neat model for, like, how these celebrity brands can maybe transition one day. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Rebecca, as someone who has covered retail for years, is this something about the influencer era kind of waning?

[Rebecca Dashinski]

Yeah, I definitely think so. I think people have hit peak exposure, and I think that's why celebrity brands can only succeed if they are able to eventually exist without the celebrity. So it might sound crazy to even a company like Skims, I think, is moving into an era of not overly relying on Kim as their spokeswoman. They've had a lot of buzz online for their marketing efforts that have highlighted really trendy celebrities. So someone like an Alex Cooper or a Sabrina Carpenter, they've had these really editorial skims, photo shoots that people have even been comparing to, you know, magazine covers of yore. So I think they've really capitalized on partnering with people who are really in the cultural consciousness in the moment. I also think, you know, thinking of someone who was on our list last year, Shay Mitchell, whose company, Baze, they are a luggage brand.

[Diana Ransom]

Yeah, I didn't mean her specifically, by the way.

[Rebecca Dashinski]

Their products are good. And that felt really authentic to her because she is someone who had built her following not just as an actress, but as someone who posted a lot on Instagram about her hashtag, shaycations.

[Diana Ransom]

What are Shaycations?

[Issy Lipowski]

Her.

[Rebecca Dashinski]

Her hashtag shaycations are her travels with her friends. You know, they would go to like.

[Diana Ransom]

You guys don't want to see me go on vacation.

[Rebecca Dashinski]

But she really, you know, built this reputation as someone who loves to travel. And so for someone like that to launch a luggage brand that is designed with, you know, really smart storage solutions, that feels authentic and people who aren't just a fan of Pretty Little Liars can, you know, appreciate those suitcases at the same time.

[Diana Ransom]

It's not going away. We're not, like, ringing the death knell for, like, the celebrity backed brands, actually. Alex Cooper, for instance, who we may end up doing something with down the road. Issyu had done a little bit of reporting on her potentially for something she launched. Like a Gatorade style soda.

[Issy Lipowski]

Yes. Unwell.

[Diana Ransom]

Unwell, yeah.

[Issy Lipowski]

Unwell branded. I think it's sort of like replenishment drinks for women.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Is it for when you're unwell?

[Issy Lipowski]

It's for when you're deeply unwell. It's when you've been up all night partying with Alex Cooper and you need some hydration. Yeah.

[Diana Ransom]

Sounds authentic, right?

[Issy Lipowski]

Yes, very on brand.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Totally key. Yeah. I mean, Dany Garcia had an energy drink also that she was launching. She had launched and I mean, I think it's pretty common. I think we're still seeing a lot of alcohol brands. Just got a pitch for one from Emma Watson and her brother have a really lovely looking new brand.

[Rebecca Dashinski]

I think that's their gin brand, right?

[Issy Lipowski]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Dashinski]

I think there's some sort of familial connection there.

[Issy Lipowski]

There is.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Their family has vineyards, so it's like casual. Can you be a Nepo grape baby? I guess.

[Diana Ransom]

I don't know.

[Rebecca Dashinski]

Yeah, seems like it.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Yeah, there we go. But anyway, I mean it, it looks lovely, but I see no shortage of that. And maybe that's not stopping. There was a story in the Wall Street Journal recently that fewer than a third of last year's super bowl ads did not have a celebrity appearance. So that's one to watch for this year. I think another thing we should be watching is a shift toward in marketing budgets away from maybe the celebrity partnerships and toward AI and toward that, sort of integrating that into advertising and marketing custom products as well. Using AI as either a marketing tool or an actual generator of new products.

[Diana Ransom]

So moving spend away from influencers and moving it toward AI.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Yeah.

[Diana Ransom]

Okay, you heard it here, folks.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Maybe that's my mini. That's my mini prediction. Do you guys have any other predictions in terms of the future of female founders in general or in this category in specific?

[Diana Ransom]

I feel like optimism. I feel like, I want to say something optimistic, but I feel like I can't right now. The jury's still out to some degree.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

It's a tough time.

[Diana Ransom]

Yeah, but I mean, they're always going to be crafty, they're always going to be innovative and we're not going away.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

What about you, Rebecca, Any predictions?

[Rebecca Dashinski]

Yeah, I mean, I think that this is something that we've already seen and have been seeing for a while, but founders becoming not necessarily the face of their own brand, but Founders being really open and transparent about their entrepreneurial journey. I'm seeing a lot of movement on Substack of founders kind of documenting what it's like to run a business. Someone that stands out is Diana Cohen of Crown Affair. She has a really great substack where she had a really popular post on how she mood boards and how that's really important for developing the visual identity of her company. And she's also someone who studied art history in college. So it's something that's very authentic to her. It's, you know, one of her key passions. But I do think that we are going to be finding more ways that founders are connecting with their audiences in these ways.

[Diana Ransom]

Like they're gonna, they're gonna be branching out beyond sort of the traditional channels.

[Rebecca Dashinski]

Yeah, I think so. And I think a medium like substack is really interesting to me because it is a little bit more direct than just posting on something like Instagram. You do have a chat functionality. You can get comments, which of course you can on Instagram, but it feels a little bit more distanced in that way. But I think there's something about writing and maybe I'm biased, but there's something about writing that feels a little bit more genuine and authentic. And I think that's how people are gonna kind of cut through the noise amid everyone posting products on social media and trying to get affiliates and all that.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Yeah, absolutely. I love it. Going back to a kind of genuine communication. Great. Izzy, what do you think? What do you think for 2025 and women starting businesses?

[Issy Lipowski]

I am a little bit with Diana in that I'm. I'm worried after all this growth that we've seen, I think now we're seeing, you know, in the US the federal government pull back on federal contracts specifically for women owned businesses. We're seeing massive tech companies like Meta saying we're no longer going to be explicitly trying to contract with women owned or minority owned businesses. Those are massive opportunities for small and I think pretty much necessarily if you stop proactively extending those opportunities, then women get fewer opportunities. And so that is a bit of a downer, but I will say that one of the researchers I spoke with for the State of Women's Entrepreneurship piece, you know, I asked her why is it that we've seen this massive amount of growth in women's entrepreneurship since 2019? And she said, I think the message really is that all the work and all the funding that has gone into supporting women owned businesses is working. And so I guess that's the uplifting message that I would give to people is all of that work has worked, so that may make it worth staying the course if you are in a position to do so.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

Great. Well, thank you Issy, so much for being with us today.

[Issy Lipowski]

Yeah, it's happy to.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

And thank you, Rebecca.

[Rebecca Dashinski]

Yeah, thank you.

[Diana Ransom]

Thank you both. This year's Female Founders list comes out on March 11th and it's bigger and better than ever. So check us out.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

That's all for this episode of from the Ground Up.

[Diana Ransom]

Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your podcast platform of choice. Also, if you liked this episode or have suggestions for topics you'd like to hear about, reach out to us on INK's social channels and leave us a review wherever you listen.

[Christine Ligorio Chavkin]

From the Ground up is produced by Avery Miles, Sam Gebauer and Hawa Otori with Diana Rancid and myself. Lead producer is Blake Odom, editing by Matt Toder, mix and sound design by Nicholas Torres. Our executive producer is Josh Christensen. Thanks for listening and we will see you next week. Hey listeners, we've got a special custom segment from Ink Studios and Room, so stick around after the episode.

[Morten Meissner]

My name is Morten Meissner and I'm the co founder and managing director of Room, which is a company that offers modular architecture for the workspace of tomorrow.

[Issy Lipowski]

What is the biggest challenge businesses face today when it comes to office design?

[Morten Meissner]

Well, I think that there is the easy answer to that is that any workspace that was built pre Covid today faces massive challenges and has to be redesigned to fit the new future of work. I think the more complex and slightly more truthful answer to that question is that the modern workspace was already broken to begin with far before COVID which is why we're seeing companies are having so many challenges bringing employees back to work.

[Issy Lipowski]

So why is it important for businesses to design for flexibility?

[Morten Meissner]

Yeah, I think first it's important to understand that what happened essentially before COVID is that 70% of US companies migrated into open plan seating. So away from the traditional cubicles and private corner offices into these open space seating environments. And the result of that was pretty terrible. Employees been struggling with finding a space for private phone calls, video conferencing, not enough privacy in the open plan seating, and the adaptation of the open workspace was done without enough consideration to the multiple different environments that needed to be in place to support an open plan model. And that's where we started our business back in 2018. Because one of the largest problems that all workspaces that had migrated. So, yeah, 70% of US businesses were all experiencing challenges with too much noise and lack of privacy. And that's where we built the single phone booth that we've helped pioneer as the first piece of modular architecture that our company introduced. And that was designed specifically to offer people not only audio privacy, but also visual privacy, as there was now a video component to every single meeting. And it was after we then launched the company that we quickly realized that this challenge of too much noise and lack of privacy was really just a symptom of a far greater problem, which is that building workspaces is incredibly difficult. We rely on fixed construction and drywall to build out spaces that then stay in place for the remainder of the lease. So, on average, five to 10 years in the U.S. but the challenge is that needs change over time. Businesses evolve, and therefore there is a need for the interior architecture of any workspace to also evolve along with those needs. But fixed construction doesn't allow us to do that because it is, as the word says, very fixed. It's incredibly complex, expensive, and time consuming to build new workspaces. It's also very disruptive to the existing work environment to actually vacate, rebuild, and come back. And as a result, most companies don't end up doing that. That, and that means that many companies around the US are sitting in these spaces that might have been good on the day they moved in, but they're no longer serving their purpose.

[Issy Lipowski]

So let's get into the modular, the adaptive architecture.

[Rebecca Dashinski]

How does that benefit businesses and then also employees?

[Morten Meissner]

Modular architecture is essentially a affordable, fast to deploy, and more flexible alternative to fixed construction. And it's also more sustainable for the planet because what happens with traditional construction is that we use drywall. Drywall is a material that is built to last for 50 to 70 years, but on average in the US we tear it down every five to seven years. The challenge with that is that there is nowhere for drywall to go but into landfill. It's not a sustainable, it's not a recyclable product. As a result, in the US 600 million cubic metric ton of debris from construction alone goes into landfill. And what modular architecture allows us to do is it allows us to build and rebuild again and again using the same materials because they act much like Lego blocks. You're essentially able to shape and reshape your workspace based on the changing needs of the people who matter most, who are the tenants, the people who actually use the space every single day.

[Issy Lipowski]

Right.

[Morten Meissner]

And it's kind of interesting Because I think as consumers, we're normally used to this, that the organic choice or the sustainable choice is always more expensive. What's interesting about modular architecture and the concept is that it is essentially not only more affordable than traditional construction, it is also more sustainable for our planet.

[Diana Ransom]

Wow.

[Morten Meissner]

It is more affordable to buy upfront, but especially it becomes more economical as you look at it, over a 10 or 20 year period, where you would normally have had multiple cycles of building up walls, only to tear them down again.

[Issy Lipowski]

Wow.

[Morten Meissner]

And using some of these products, like the one we're sitting in right now, you can build out a floor plan, you can move the modules around your space, and you can even disassemble them and take them with you when you move into your next space, your next office. So for the first time, interior architecture starts acting like furniture. And it is no longer a sunk cost that just gets demolished and ends up in landfill. It is a product that you can essentially disassemble and take with you. You and you own it. And I think there is a world where modular architecture essentially can completely replace the need for interior traditional construction, which is more economical for the end user and much better for the planet.

[Issy Lipowski]

Morten, thank you so much for joining us.

[Morten Meissner]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Issy Lipowski]

Panoply.