When disaster strikes, what do successful founders do?

Summary

Podcast Summary: From the Ground Up – "When Disaster Strikes, What Do Successful Founders Do?"

Host: Graham Winfrey (Inc. Magazine)
Guests: Sarah LaFleur (MM.LaFleur), Fanny Gerson (La Newyorkina), Ariella Safira (Xera)
Date: November 14, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into how successful founders navigate disasters—both business and personal. Host Graham Winfrey leads a candid group conversation with entrepreneurs Sarah LaFleur, Fanny Gerson, and Ariella Safira. Together, they share their most pivotal lessons from crises (especially the COVID-19 pandemic), how their business leadership has evolved, and the ways they maintain their mental health amid high stress and uncertainty.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Lessons from the Pandemic and Pivotal Moments

• Ariella Safira reflects on her company’s forced pivot from a physical space to digital during the pandemic ([03:31]):
  • The agile response allowed Xera not only to survive but also to thrive.
  • The experience highlighted the importance of trusting her team—even when physically distant.
    • “[The pandemic] did already ask probably all of us to be so much more trusting of our teams than we naturally would be.” ([03:40])
  • Ariella admits staying involved in too many areas out of curiosity and care, but learned the business (and her sanity) would benefit from letting go and empowering leaders.

2. Navigating Daily Uncertainties and Stress

• Sarah LaFleur recounts the relentless pressure of recent years ([05:48]):
  • Juggled business survival, international tariffs (up to 150% on her clothing inventory), and personal challenges, including welcoming three children in 2020.
  • A turning point: seeking help from a “mental strength coach” (a former D1 football coach focused on meditation) instead of traditional therapy ([06:40]):
    • “It was like the first time, I think in my journey, where...the truth is, like, I can't even remember what the issue was right now, right? And it's really more about, like, how do I react to the issue. And like, can I actually stay calm and level headed and like not lose my head in the process.” ([07:40])
  • This shift taught her to focus on her response to crisis, not just on analyzing the issues.

3. Surviving in Business Against the Odds

• Fanny Gerson shares the unpredictability of entrepreneurship ([09:22]):
  • Never planned to be an entrepreneur—her strength is hospitality, not business.
  • Fanny’s journey has spanned educating New Yorkers about Mexican cuisine, losing everything in Hurricane Sandy’s floods, and legal mishaps (unwise contract decisions).
    • “My Achilles heel is I’m not business minded…my strengths are in hospitality…with time, that has cost me, literally financially.” ([09:22])
  • Her advice: “If I could go back…I would tell myself something would be to listen to my dad.” ([11:55])

4. The Psychological Cost of Being a Founder

• Mental Health Rituals: ([14:29] onward)

  • Ariella Safira candidly shares she has “more examples of me losing sanity than maintaining it.” ([15:01])
  • Fanny Gerson finds grounding through her son, perceiving the world with childlike wonder, and simple mindfulness via his advice during personal loss (“Smell the flowers, blow out the candle.”) ([15:12])
    • Exercise (including boxing) helped her, too.
    • Navigates business and family challenges, especially health insurance complexities for her husband, and the vulnerability of undocumented workers in hospitality.

• Sarah LaFleur (on grounding): “That’s like meditation.” ([17:18])

5. Community as an Anchor

• Ariella stresses the importance of social support for founders ([21:09]):

  • During the most stressful moments (acquisition/fundraising), she told close friends to regularly reach out and remind her, “You’re safe.”
    • “It was, I think, back to even, like, the last year of the company. And what I think of visually is seeing texts from the two of them that just say, 'You’re safe, just so you know, you’re totally safe.'” ([23:22])
  • Community is vital—no true “hack” exists for founder stress, but sharing vulnerability with trusted people matters.

• The founders discuss the value of group chats (“Fashion Survivors Group”) and the importance of support beyond just entrepreneurial peers ([24:28]).

  • Sarah: “It took me a few years to find my people…who were willing to let their guard down and tell you exactly like it is, and also celebrate the wins with you genuinely.” ([24:36])

• Ariella’s extra perspective: Sometimes friends outside the startup world provide crucial perspective ([25:19]):

  • “…my closest people are so far away from venture, thank God. And I benefit so much…just entering the social environment with them where they’re like, 'I don’t know what valuation is, I don’t care…'” ([25:19])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ariella Safira ([03:31]): “It served us…meet the moment and be light on your feet enough that you can pivot and change. But…I wish that I really honed in on what are the parts of the company I want to be doing or I’m good at doing and earnestly let go of the others.”
• Sarah LaFleur ([07:40]): “…it’s really more about, like, how do I react to the issue. And like, can I actually stay calm and level headed and not lose my head in the process.”
• Fanny Gerson ([11:55]): “If I could go back and tell myself something, it would be to listen to my dad.”
• Fanny Gerson ([15:12]): Describes her son’s wisdom: “He said, 'just breathe…can I hold your face?'…and he says, 'smell the flowers, blow out the candle.'”
• Ariella Safira ([23:22]): “Having two friends…say, 'You’re safe. This whole thing can collapse and you’re totally good. We’re good, we’re fine.'…I do think community is a big part of mental health care.”
• Sarah LaFleur ([24:28]): “I have mine. It’s literally called Fashion Survivors Group…it took me a few years to find my people.”
• Ariella Safira ([26:02]): “Venture in particular can be so…what’s the word?…Insular or like we have our heads—up our asses…such a self-obsess[ed]—it’s just an insane journey.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:31] Ariella discusses pivoting business & lessons in trust
• [05:48] Sarah describes juggling crises and finding a meditation coach
• [09:22] Fanny reflects on surviving business disasters and learning hard lessons
• [14:29] Group shift to founder mental health and coping rituals
• [21:09] Ariella on the importance of receiving simple, supportive messages
• [24:28] Group chats, peer support, and finding “your people”
• [25:19] The importance of friends outside the startup/venture world

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Tone

Frank, raw, and conversational. The founders drop pretenses, joke about needing “group therapy,” and stress the real psychological costs behind entrepreneurial perseverance. The episode delivers realism and hope, emphasizing that while disasters are inevitable, a combination of internal resilience, outside support, and self-forgiveness can make the difference.

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Takeaways for Entrepreneurs

• Be okay with letting go—empower others in your company.
• Your reaction to crisis is more important than the crisis itself.
• Mental health tools can include everything from formal coaching to the wisdom of a child.
• Community, vulnerability, and support (even via simple texts) are invaluable.
• Cultivate relationships outside your professional bubble for healthy perspective.

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Catch the next installment for more unfiltered founder wisdom.

Transcript

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[Sarah Lafleur]

That has kind of fundamentally altered the way I try to treat disaster. It doesn't mean I'm always successful, but it's like like this too shall pass.

[Graham Winfrey]

Welcome to the Business Model by Inc. I'm Graham Winfrey. It's Friday and that means it's time for Founder Group Chat. Today's topic is Coping with Disaster. How do you handle the unexpected when scaling your business? And how do you keep yourself sane along the way? We're picking up our conversation on Scaling Business with three founders who have done it Fanny Gerson, a chef and owner of several food businesses Sarah Lafleur, CEO of fashion brand MM lafleur and Ariella Safera, whose mental health company Xera was recently acquired. That's coming up after a quick message from our sponsors.

[Sponsor Announcer]

This podcast is brought to you by IHG Business Edge, where small and mid sized businesses unlock exclusive savings at more than 6,600 IHG hotels and resorts worldwide. Visit businessedge.ihg.com to learn more.

[Graham Winfrey]

As you heard last time on Founder Group Chat, one of our founders, Ariella Safira, was set to open a brick and mortar concept in April of 2020. Well, we all know what happened around then, but Ariella rose to the challenge and steered her company into a digital model that helped them not only survive the pandemic, but thrive and grow through it. All three of our founders have led their companies through the pandemic and countless other disasters of all kinds. And in this episode they share what it was like and as importantly, how they take care of themselves and their mental health. Here's some more of my conversation with Fanny Gerson, Sarah Lafleur and Ariella Sapphira. What was the most important lesson you learned from having gone through the pandemic and made that successful pivot about what your future would be like?

[Ariella Safera]

So there's the beautiful success lesson that is, you know, meet the moment and be light on your feet enough that you can pivot and change. And that served us. But in the spirit of maybe being more real, what I wish I knew then that I didn't act on is I think that the pandemic did already ask probably all of us to be so much more trusting of our teams than we naturally would be, since we're not seeing them or existing near them and just sort of trusting people will show up and do the work needed. But I definitely, I wish that I earlier in our journey and my journey, I wish that I really honed in on what are the parts of the company I want to be doing or I'm good at doing and earnestly let go of the others. And I think that I was just constantly involved in too much. You know, in last week's last year's magazine piece that we did together, I unexpectedly ended up saying, you know, we all need to work on trust issues. Before that, I did not self identify as having trust issues at some Freudian slip. But I do think I, you know, it's, I don't know if it was because of lack of trust or like I am so earnestly curious about everything and I love learning about things and I loved the company and wanted to be involved in everything. But what would have served the company and probably my own sanity was if I truly let go of so much more than I let go of and you know, allowed for leaders to own those departments or projects fully. I wish I, I think the company would have been better if I practiced that muscle a bit more.

[Graham Winfrey]

Well, we're not in the middle of a pandemic right now, but we do have inflation tariffs, general macroeconomic uncertainty. The question of what's the crazy headline going to be today? What are some of the uncertainties that kind of throw you for a loop every day and how do you manage them?

[Sarah Lafleur]

Honestly? Yeah, I've taken a totally. So I mean, basically I would say it's been a 12 year mental health journey and I also had kids in 2020, I welcomed three babies. It's just another kind of crazy story to our twins via our incredible surrogate. I also miraculously managed to get pregnant after three years of ivf. And so there was like, so much thrown at me between 2020 and 2025. And there were some, like, really dark times and dark days. And I went into 2025 being like, I'm not sure I will make it through this year. If I fundamentally don't change what I'm doing, I'll just share one of the things. I've tried, tested and tried many things, and it sounds so cliche, but I started seeing a mental strength coach, actually, with my husband, who's also an entrepreneur. That's a story for another time with him, actually. And it's not couples therapy exactly, but he is a former Division 1 football coach turned mental strength coach, and he focuses a lot of his teaching on meditation. And so I've been really kind of consistently doing that for six to seven months now. And I would say it's helped a lot. And to your point, like, tariffs dramatically altered my business this year. Like, at one point, the tariffs on the clothes that we wanted to bring in from China and Vietnam, where we were manufacturing 80% of this year's clothing, was 150%. So we just like, could not bring in inventory for most of May, June and some of July. And that's like fundamentally kind of, you know, disastrous for, for a clothing brand like mine. And I can't even remember if it was that or something else, but like, I called, I was having a panic attack in the, in the supermarke and I whatsapped my coach. And I was like, do you have five minutes? And he was like, sure, let's talk. And I thought he was gonna ask me, like, what was going on with the business, like, what had caused me to have this, like, you know, panic attack. And instead he was like, can you go to a quiet place? And I was like, yes, I can go to my car. And he was like, close your eyes, put your hands on your knees, and I'm gonna take you through a seven minute meditation. And like, it was like the first time, I think in my journey where it was like, I've seen different, like therapists or counselors or exec coaches up until that point, and they always wann about the issues. But like, the truth is, like, I can't even remember what the issue was right now, right? And it's really more about, like, how do I react to the issue. And like, can I Actually stay calm and level headed and like not lose my head in the process. And so I think that has kind of fundamentally altered the way I try to treat disaster. It doesn't mean I'm always successful, but it's like this too shall pass and do I actually have the tools to be able to deal with it.

[Fanny Gerson]

So it's wonderful you found him.

[Sarah Lafleur]

Yeah, he sounds, he's amazing. He's amazing. Yeah, 100%. He is an incredible coach.

[Graham Winfrey]

If you could go back 10, 15 years and tell your former self, you know, what is going to happen in your entrepreneurial journey, that would be the biggest surprise. What would that be?

[Fanny Gerson]

I think that we're still here, to be honest. You know, I always say like I became an entrepreneur by default. It was never, I'm not still to this day. My, how you say it, My Achilles heel is I'm not business minded. I, I, my strengths are in the hospitality aspect and as a chef and you know, but it's, I shy away from that. I don't want to know about it. And I know like with time like that has, that has cost me literally financially. But also, you know, I've made a lot of mistakes along the way and so I feel like I would tell like, you're gonna go through so many more things than you realize, but you're gonna. And against all odds. Not just because that's not my forte or my interest, but because it's like, you know, when I started, food has changed a lot, you know, in, since I started. But also when I started, I remember I had my cart at Hester Street Fair, which was where I first, my first Paleta was sold and I had Tajin, which, you know, salted chili in the cart. Nobody knew what it was. And then what am I supposed to do with this? And now, you know, like a lot of it's, it's like a huge brand, you know, in the States and worldwide that you put it in, but people are like, well, you put it on a popsicle. I'm like, yeah, you put it on a popsicle. You know, so not just because of, of all those things. So it came like an educational aspect of the product itself. You know, in New York, what, what's great about it is that people are always seeking those, but at the same time it's very competitive. People are like, oh, this is great. Oh, there's something new. Oh wait, let's, let's go there. And we, our kitchen flooded in Hurricane Sandy and lost everything that we had built at the time. And so we've gone through like a lot of things that's just in the popsicles and then in the in the donut world. I had, you know, a very sort of trite story that I can't really get into. You know, into it for legal reasons. But, you know, kind of like the people in. I say very trite because it's sort of the creative gets screwed by people that have the money. But in the end of the day, the biggest lesson there is I made the mistake of signing a contract I should have never signed because I trusted a lawyer and I didn't listen to my dad. So if I would to change the question a little bit, if I could go back and tell myself something would be to listen to my dad.

[Graham Winfrey]

We're gonna take a quick break, but when we're back, we'll get into the psychological costs of entrepreneurship and what Sarah, Fanny and Ariella do to manage it.

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[Graham Winfrey]

One of the most popular magazine stories Inc. Has ever published is titled the Psychological Cost of Entrepreneurship. And I'm just curious whether you, Ariela and Fanny have ever been similarly intentional about. Okay, just to deal with the mental health that I'm dealing with of being a founder, I need to go in the room and meditate or get up in the morning and go for a run or. What are some of the ways that you kind of keep yourselves sane being a founder?

[Ariella Safera]

I probably have more examples of me losing sanity than maintaining it.

[Graham Winfrey]

Anything for you, Fanny.

[Fanny Gerson]

So I have a seven year old and I really try to very purposefully. Is that how you say it? Yeah, like, try to see the world through his eyes. So when I'm in this, like, just funk and like, he just says so many things that are so wise. I'm like, it's like a little Buddha sometimes. And so I try to be sometimes. When my father passed away a little over two years ago, and I was just, I'm gonna try to hold it together, so. And he had never seen me that way. Like, I was just destroyed. And I really didn't want him to see me that way. And he was just like, mommy, Mommy, just breathe. I mean, I'm translating, but he said, just breathe. Like, can I hold your face? You know, and so he held my face and I'm like. And I can't even say yes. And he says, just smell. Smell the flowers. Blow out the candle. No, smell the flowers. And it was like he knew this perfect thing to say. And I find myself in many moments, like, remembering that, like to smell the flowers and blow the candle. So it's just, you know, and he's a very sort of wondrous kid. And I remember like this moment when he was like three or something and we saw the shadow of these leaves, you know, and we were just like, not just looking at the shadows, but like making up a story. And so it's kind of like stopping those moments and to just. Okay, let's. Let's just remember the shadows and the flowers and the, you know, like all these things to kind of be still and. Yes. You know, also exercise. And for a while I did boxing. That really helped. But for us kind of to go back a little bit.

[Sarah Lafleur]

Oh, that's like, that's meditation.

[Fanny Gerson]

Yes. Is an informal meditation and things that always keep us up. I work with my husband and he's a hemophiliac, so we have to pay our own health insurance. You know, through the marketplace. Obamacare, I guess that's not the official name, but. And that is a big thing for us because of his preexisting condition, because he also has Crohn's. There's only one, one insurance that covers like one plan in the entire marketplace that covers his medication and his doctors. And so we have to abide to that plan. And it's just really, really expensive. It's prohibitively expensive for us. So for us it's like, can we even afford to stay living in this country? So that's one very concrete that. Because we're entrepreneurs. So it's like, do you get another job just to have the insurance covered? But then you're not doing what you want to do or what you're trying to do. And the other thing is our industry, the backbone of our industry are undocumented workers from farm to table. And so that is really when the pandemic happened. That was one of the first things that we thought about. How can we. What's gonna happen? Like, how, how are we gonna help our community? You know, like nobody. And I remember I was in this zoom call with, you know, there's restaurant tours all over the city and you know, this, this one guy who has, I think like seven restaurants, he said, you know, honestly, I never thought about how policies can affect, you know, most of my workers. And in my mind, like really, like it's not, but it's just not top of mind because when you're not an immigrant, you don't. You. Maybe it's just you don't think about that. Not because they don't care, but it's just not, it's not in their radar. And so we started making tamales to donate to communities. I was like, we just gotta do something, even if it's like our own little way. So for me, for us, a big part is like beyond our little, you know, business, businesses, but it's more. All of these changes that you don't know the next day, how do we protect them? You know, families over workers or just communities in general. And we, the way we try, like we work a lot with an organization called Misteca, which is a non profit organization in Sunset park. And they give aid and it's just whether it's information or trying. But the thing is right now even the laws aren't being followed. So even if you are able to get somebody aid to, you know, because they're gonna deport someone, you know, it's like this, this really big thing that I'm like, how do we. How do we. And then even like, talking about it is like, are you risking somebody because you're talking about kind of thing? And so those are the things that are beyond just being that you may think about because we're entrepreneurs, but it's not necessarily directly on the business, if that makes sense.

[Graham Winfrey]

So we might have to change the title from Founder Group Chat to Founder Group Therapy. Group Therapy Session Achievement.

[Sarah Lafleur]

Yes, totally.

[Graham Winfrey]

Well, Ariela, something there. As a mental health entrepreneur, what are some of the mental health hacks that, you know, you can share with others?

[Ariella Safera]

Yeah, I mean, when I think of my journey in running the company, I. It would take time and for me to recognize the moments I was most in need and what I might need in those moments. And I'll. I'll speak for me personally that up until it's called the last leg of the company, like the acquisition process itself, going into that, I just had an awareness of this is a stressful. This is going to be really stressful. This is very comparable to a fundraising process. And I know those have been stressful. So I didn't do this at any other time of the business. But at this point, I had learned and was really clear with my close friends of, you know, these next three months are going to be really hard and I would love your help in helping me feel less panicked during it. And while they all showed up in various ways, really what felt so meaningful to me is two of them, Sophia and Nats would really just text me saying, you're safe. Like, just so you know you're safe. And you know, I'm living in, like, 2024 in New York City. Of course, my, like, physical safety was not at risk. But as I'm sure we all can relate to, when you're in those moments of high stress conversations managing multiple navigating board dynamics. God. I mean, I'll speak for myself. My brain is, like, on fire in those moments. And I certainly in those moments feel so unsafe and, like, you might as well tell me I'm physically unsafe because of where I'm at and having two friends who will text and call and show up at my door and say, you're safe. Hey, like, this whole thing can collapse and you're totally good. We're good, we're fine. And it's pretty vulnerable to even share that. But it was, I think, back to even, like the last year of the company. And what I think of visually is seeing texts from the two of them that just say, you're safe, just so you know, you're totally safe and so you know, I do think community is a big part of mental health care. I don't think there is a hack in terms of like do six jumping jacks and your depression's scared. Would love if that were the case would have built that business five years ago. But I do think feeling supported by your people and part of it is just even building the type of relationship where you can share something as vulnerable as like, I feel really unsafe in these moments and as cheesy as this sounds, I need your like help in helping me feel better or safer. And I don't know if that works for everyone. Like maybe what your, your version of that might look different than mine but finding those people who also might have like witnessed you in those highs and lows and known like, oh, I see where this goes is a really is a very beautiful relationship to have and a good mental health hack I guess to, to have in your back pocket.

[Graham Winfrey]

So founders should all have a group chat so they can turn to and venture.

[Fanny Gerson]

They should. Yeah.

[Graham Winfrey]

It seems like text is a impersonal medium, but just getting that out and not keeping it inside I think is probably something all founders should try to do.

[Sarah Lafleur]

Yeah, I have mine. It's called, it's literally the text group is called Fashion Survivors Group.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Yeah.

[Sarah Lafleur]

And we, it's so funny because it took me a few years to find my people and there's like a lot of, you know, chest thumping in any business. Right. Any entrepreneurial world. And it took me a while to find my people who were totally willing to let their guard down and tell you exactly like it is and conversely also celebrate the wins with you genuinely. Yeah, I think that genuinely, the genuinely is really.

[Ariella Safera]

Yeah.

[Sarah Lafleur]

And thankfully I've been able to. Yes, you're right because misery loves company. But you know, the opposite you also hope for in your survivor's group.

[Ariella Safera]

So something I'll add to that is I certainly have my founder friends who are supportive and helpful in a million ways but I personally, my closest people are so far away from venture, thank God. And I benefit so much from even if we're not talking about work, just entering the social environment with them where they're like, I don't know what evaluation is, I don't care what the valuation is, you know, and what I'm wondering is. Yeah, and I, I think that, I mean I've never been anything but a venture backed founder basically. But I, I think that venture in particular can be so. What's the word?

[Graham Winfrey]

Insular or like we have our heads.

[Ariella Safera]

Up our asses, you know, like it just, it's such a self obsess. It's just an insane journey. Yeah, it's a wild little microcosm of the world. And again, I benefit from and love my founder friends tremendously, but it's real. What I often need in the role is exiting this tiny microcosm where you think the world will end if this startup ends, and having your best friends who you know, one's working on marketing oreos and the other's like a writer working on death penalty and the other's a chef and the other's a lawyer. Having them have a conversation with you and not even know how to use the terms and the references that you think are like the Bible in that moment is really healthy. So I do believe everyone needs their version of like your founder survivor group chat and hopefully conversations like this one can offer something similar. But also please have friends outside of this.

[Graham Winfrey]

That's all for today's episode. We're going to pick up this founder group chat with Sarah, Fanny and Ariella again next week. Be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast and on INK's YouTube channel at YouTube. Com Inc. Magazine.