America’s long standoff with Cuba

Summary

Front Burner | CBC Podcast

Episode: America’s long standoff with Cuba
Host: Jamie Poisson
Guest: Peter Kornbluh (Senior Analyst, National Security Archive; Director, Cuba Documentation Project)
Date: March 25, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the deep and often turbulent history between the United States and Cuba, stretching far beyond the familiar Cold War flashpoints. Host Jamie Poisson and expert guest Peter Kornbluh explore more than a century of American ambitions, interference, and diplomatic maneuvering around Cuba. They discuss the roots of U.S. imperial interest, the legacies of revolution and resistance, the realities for Cubans under Castro, and the current escalation under contemporary U.S. leadership. The conversation is rich with historical anecdotes, candid assessments, and memorable archival moments.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins of U.S. Interest in Cuba

[02:21–05:28]

• Early 19th Century Ambitions: U.S. presidents have sought influence over Cuba since the 1820s, with imperial ambitions predating the Cold War.
• Economic, Strategic, and Slavery Factors: Interests included Cuba's resources (sugar, coffee, rum), strategic position in the Caribbean, and the desire of Southern U.S. states to expand slavery.
• Notable Quote:
  "Cuba was always known as the Pearl of the Antilles. US Presidents eyed it going all the way back to the 1800s..."
  — Peter Kornbluh [02:52]
• Monroe Doctrine & John Quincy Adams: The U.S. saw Cuba’s destiny linked to the U.S., exemplified by Adams' “apple” analogy.
• Failed Purchase Attempts: U.S. offers to buy Cuba from Spain in the mid-1800s ($100 million) were refused.

2. From Protectorate to Revolution

[05:28–11:50]

• Platt Amendment (1901): The U.S. forces Cuba’s new government to accept constitutional amendments granting the U.S. immense control.
• Set the Stage for Revolution: Restrictions fueled anti-U.S. sentiments and set historical context for later upheavals.
  • "The Platt Amendment... gave the United States the rights to control all of Cuba’s economic resources... and the right in perpetuity to a huge military base... Guantanamo..." — Peter Kornbluh [05:33]
• Batista Era: Dictatorship, suspension of elections, widespread corruption, and mafia control — with U.S. support.
• Castro’s Rise: Sparked by Batista's coup, Fidel Castro leads an insurrection, surviving several military defeats to stage a successful revolution by 1959.
• Archival Moment:
  "Batista had overthrown the constitutional regime... Cuba’s political freedom is ended as Batista cancels the June 1 elections."
  — Fidel Castro (archival audio) [08:58]

3. Revolution, Nationalism, and U.S. Reaction

[11:50–19:15]

• U.S.–Cuba Relations Post-Revolution: Initial U.S. support for Batista yields to unease as Castro gains popularity and nationalizes industries.
• First U.S. Visits: Castro is invited to Washington, but Eisenhower snubs him—Nixon instead meets Castro, with the U.S. uncertain about Castro's ideological direction.
  • "Whatever we may think of Castro, he is going to be a great factor in the development of Cuba and very possibly in Latin American affairs generally."
    — Richard Nixon (as read by Peter Kornbluh) [16:05]
• CIA’s Early Hopes: Some U.S. officials initially see Castro as a "spiritual leader of Democratic forces" rather than a communist.
• Castro’s Stance:
  "I do not agree with communism... that's why we call our ideas humanism..."
  — Fidel Castro (archival audio) [18:51]
• Shift to Socialism: Only after the failed Bay of Pigs invasion (1961) does Castro formally declare Cuba a socialist state.

4. Embargo and Escalation

[21:10–24:59]

• Nationalization & U.S. Response: Castro’s reforms (nationalizing oil, sugar, etc.) prompt the U.S. embargo, cutting off trade and planning military intervention.
  • "To start down the road to ending his popularity and having Cuban people blame him for deprivation, we should begin the embargo." — Peter Kornbluh [21:38]
• Full Embargo: Implemented fully by Kennedy in 1962, isolating Cuba economically.

5. Cuban Missile Crisis and the Cold War’s Most Dangerous Moment

[24:59–28:47]

• Bay of Pigs Fallout: The failed invasion leads directly to Soviet-Cuban alliance and secret placement of nuclear missiles on the island.
  • "There is a straight line from the CIA’s invasion at the Bay of Pigs to the Cuban Missile crisis." — Peter Kornbluh [25:38]
• Cuban Agency: Castro wants missile deployment to be open and legal; Soviets insist on secrecy.
• Global Standoff:
  "It shall be the policy of this nation to regard any nuclear missile launched from Cuba... as an attack by the Soviet Union..."
  — John F. Kennedy (archival audio) [28:16]

6. Cuba on the World Stage: Dual Legacies of Power and Repression

[28:47–34:07]

• Internationalism: Despite poverty, Cuba under Castro sends soldiers abroad (Angola, Ethiopia) and becomes a global anti-colonial icon.
• Soft Power vs. Repression: Cuba’s healthcare and education receive global praise, but domestic dissidence is harshly suppressed.
• Notable Quote:
  "Cuba has... a mixed legacy in the end... there were no kind of democratic rights... no opposition."
  — Peter Kornbluh [31:59]
• Dependency: Achievements depended on outside subsidies (Soviet Union, China, Venezuela); with these gone, Cuba’s vulnerabilities resurface.

7. Obama’s Opening and Today’s Tensions

[34:07–40:45]

• Obama’s Rapprochement: Secret talks (mostly in Canada) lead to restored diplomatic relations, symbolized by Obama’s 2016 Cuba visit, bringing hope for change.
  • "This is a new day between our two countries." — Barack Obama (archival audio) [36:33]
• On Cuban TV: Obama appeals directly to Cuban families, prompting excitement and optimism.
  • Memorable exchange from popular Cuban satirical show:
    "Yes, the real Obama..." — Barack Obama [37:13] "Who's this? My name is Pamphilo..." — Fidel Castro (as Pamphilo) [37:14]
• Lost Momentum under Trump: The Trump administration reverses engagement, tightens embargoes, and evokes imperial rhetoric.
  • "Trump’s United States is very different from Obama’s United States... wants the Cubans to know that the United States has both the intention and capacity to impose change on Cuba." — Peter Kornbluh [38:53]
  • "Taking Cuba, I mean, whether I free it, take it, I think I could do anything I want with it." — Donald Trump (archival or actor) [39:15]
• Return to Imperial Posture:
  "If there’s one comparison to be made today, it’s that Trump wants to return the United States to the era of the Platt Amendment..."
  — Peter Kornbluh [40:17]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• John Quincy Adams on Cuba:
  "Cuba, by the dictates of nature, was destined to fall under US Tutelage in the same way as if an apple severed from its native tree cannot choose but fall to the ground." — Peter Kornbluh quoting Adams [02:52]

• Nixon’s assessment of Castro:
  "He has those indefinable qualities that makes him a leader of men..." — Peter Kornbluh reading Nixon’s memo [16:05]

• Obama in Havana:
  "For more than half a century, the sight of a US President here in Havana would have been unimaginable. But this is a new day between our two countries.” — Barack Obama [36:33]

• Castro’s complex legacy:
  "On the one hand, he universalized education... made sure that all Cubans had health care... But... there were no kind of democratic rights." — Peter Kornbluh [31:59]

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Important Timestamps

• 02:21 – 05:28: Early U.S. imperial ambitions and rationale
• 05:33 – 08:12: The Platt Amendment and U.S. colonial control
• 08:47 – 11:50: The Batista dictatorship and the success of the Cuban Revolution
• 14:31 – 19:15: Castro’s early relationship with the U.S., the CIA and American attempts at influence
• 21:10 – 24:59: Embargo implementation and economic isolation
• 24:59 – 28:47: Bay of Pigs, Soviet alliance, Cuban Missile Crisis
• 29:54 – 34:07: Castro’s dual legacy—international heroism and domestic repression
• 34:07 – 39:26: Obama-era rapprochement and 2016 visit
• 39:26 – 40:45: Trump administration and return to conflictual U.S. posture

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Tone & Style Notes

• The episode maintains a candid, nuanced, and at times critical tone—balancing admiration for Cuban resilience and internationalism with honest discussion of authoritarianism and repression.
• Audio excerpts from Castro, Obama, Trump, and archival newsreels provide compelling historical color and authenticity.
• Peter Kornbluh’s expertise ensures depth, often referencing declassified documents and personal experience (eg. Obama’s Cuba visit).

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Conclusion

By tracing the arc of U.S.–Cuba relations from 19th-century imperial desires through Cold War confrontations, brief diplomatic thaw, and renewed antagonism, this episode offers a compelling and accessible portrait of a relationship defined by strategic calculation, ideological rivalry, and enduring legacies. For Canadians, Americans, and global listeners, it provides context for why Cuba still matters—and why the story is far from over.

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For further reading or listening, review Peter Kornbluh’s book “Back Channel to Cuba,” or revisit Obama’s 2016 Havana speech as discussed in the episode.

Transcript

[Jamie Bresson]

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[CBC Announcer]

This is a CBC podcast.

[Jamie Bresson]

Hey, everybody. I'm Jamie Bresson.

[Fidel Castro (voice actor or archival audio)]

I do believe I'll be the honor

[Barack Obama (voice actor or archival audio)]

of having the honor of taking Cuba.

[Jamie Bresson]

That was US President Donald Trump making, I think, what we can objectively refer to as an imperial claim over the nation of Cuba. And here's U.S. senator Lindsey Graham.

[Peter Kornbluh]

I'm in Miami. You see this hat? Free Cuba.

[Fidel Castro (voice actor or archival audio)]

Stay tuned.

[Peter Kornbluh]

The liberation of Cuba is upon us. It's just a matter of time.

[Fidel Castro (voice actor or archival audio)]

Now you see this?

[Jamie Bresson]

Cuba's president has responded to all of this by saying that he's prepared for peace talks or a state of war. This small island nation just 90 miles off the coast of Florida has been a point of particular interest for dozens of US presidents over the last century. Hundreds of failed assassination schemes, covert sabotage operations, failed CIA coups, and at the center of the closest the world has ever come to nuclear war. Today, Cuba is dealing with a collapsed power grid, inoperable hospitals, and food shortages as the American embargo on the country closes in on its 65th year. We're going to unpack all of this with Peter Kornblue. He's a senior analyst at the National Security Archive and director of the Cuba Documentation Project. He's a longtime reporter and writer on Cuba and author of books such as Back Channel to the Hidden History of Negotiations Between Washington and Havana. Peter, hi. It's such a pleasure to have you on the show.

[Peter Kornbluh]

Well, it's great to be on your show. I have a particular fondness for Canadian broadcasts and Canada's approach to the problem of Cuba.

[Jamie Bresson]

Many of our listeners, when it comes to Cuba and the United States, will immediately think of the two in the context of the Cold War and leaders like Che Guevara and Fidel Castro. But really, this is not where the story between these two countries begins. And so why don't we pick up nearly 100 years before the Cold War, which was the first time an American president actually tried to buy Cuba outright. The US would try again in 1954. Can you walk me through what informed the US's original imperial interest in Cuba.

[Peter Kornbluh]

You know, Cuba was always known as the Pearl of the Antilles. And US Presidents eyed it going all the way back to the 1800s, the early 1800s, in 1823, which was the year that President James Monroe enunciated what became known as the Monroe Doctrine, essentially suggesting that all of Latin America was going to be the US Sphere of influence, if not sphere of intimidation. We had John Quincy Adams, who was, I believe, the Secretary of State at that time, addressing the issue of Cuba. And he famously said that Cuba, by the dictates of nature, was destined to fall under US Tutelage in the same way as if an apple severed from its native tree cannot choose but fall to the ground. John Quincy Adams said back in 1823. And basically there became two issues that three issues that attracted US interest to Cuba. One was that US companies, US adventures, realized what Cuba had in terms of sugar and coffee and rum and all those things. But the Spanish, of course, had colonized Cuba and controlled Cuba. The second major interest as we arrived at the mid-1800s, that the United States had was the southern states of the United States were very concerned about Cuba being a slave state. They were worried that the Cubans would throw off the yoke of Spanish imperialism and declare Cuba a free and independent state where black people would actually be free. And southern states in the United States did not want that. The reverse. They wanted a state. They wanted Cuba to be a new southern state and a southern slave state to add to their power in the U.S. senate and the U.S. congress to succeed from the Union. And if the civil war broke out, they wanted to use Cuba as a base of operations that would give them some sanctuary and defenses from the north. So the southern states pushed very hard for a vote in Congress to annex Cuba. And actually they pushed US presidents in the mid-1800s to actually offer Spain $100 million for the US acquisition of Cuba, which was an offer that was made twice and both times rejected.

[Jamie Bresson]

And where does the Platt Amendment come into play and why was it such a significant development?

[Peter Kornbluh]

Well, the third reason that the United States was so focused on Cuba was its geostrategic position in the Caribbean. It was a large island that sat at the mouth of the entrance to the Western hemisphere through the Gulf of Mexico. And as the United States became a world power, building a. A two ocean navy and set its sights on becoming an imperial, if not imperialist country, Cuba was an asset territorially that the United States wanted. And when the Cubans rose up, an insurrection against Spanish colonial rule, the United States, pushed by Theodore Roosevelt, who was Secretary of War in 1898, if I'm not mistaken, to basically invade Cuba, fight the Spanish and eject the Spanish and win what became known as the Spanish American War, which was really the War of Independence that the Cubans themselves had waged. And the United States took over Cuba, they appointed a military governor, General Leonard Wood. He governed the country at the turn of the 20th century. And as Cuba became a new republic for the first time emerging for colonial rule, basically the United States said to the Cubans, we're going to write your Constitution. If you want us to leave and take our troops with us that are now occupying Cuba and turn over rule to you, you have to constitutionally agree to what's known as the Platt Amendment, an amendment that had been put forth in the U.S. congress in February of 1901 that gave the United States the rights to control all of Cuba's economic resources, its ports, its utilities. That gave the United States the right to intervene in Cuba militarily to control Cuba's government, and gave the United States the right in perpetuity to a huge military base that is still there on the eastern coast of Cuba, the Guantanamo Naval Base. But the Platt Amendment, and basically the US decision to go from Cuba's being a colony of Spain to being a protectorate of a neo colonial power, the United States was really what set the seeds for the Cuban Revolution.

[Jamie Bresson]

So I think maybe the next point in the timeline we want to hit is 1952. A man named Fulgencio Bautista seizes the presidency via a coup and very quickly suspends that constitution and begins a period of authoritarianism. And then the following year, led by a young disaffected lawyer named Fidel Castro, begins Cuba's uprising, first unsuccessfully, then after years of struggle, successfully, in what becomes known as the Cuban Revolution. And so what. Tell me more about the tenets and goals of this revolution. And what was the US Position in this conflict?

[Peter Kornbluh]

There wasn't anybody as thuggish as Fulgencio Batista. He was widely despised throughout the society. And when he came back in 1952 and staged another coup, strong man General

[Fidel Castro (voice actor or archival audio)]

Batista had overthrown the constitutional regime of President Carlos Prio. The present coup was accomplished by. Accomplished in only 77 minutes. But Cuba's political freedom is ended as Batista cancels the June 1 elections.

[Peter Kornbluh]

That incited a young idealistic lawyer named Fidel Castro to try and start an insurrection, a revolution against Batista's dictatorial rule. And you had Fidel recklessly, I have to say, without much planning, leading an attempt to create an insurrection by an attack on the Moncada military barracks In July of 1953, only a year after Batista had retaken power. Almost all the people that Fidel had recruited to attack the military barracks were killed or taken prisoner, tortured, some of them tortured to death. Fidel himself was taken prisoner. He gave a very famous speech which established himself as a major orator of revolutionary thought called, called History Will Absolve Me. And eventually he was let go as part of an amnesty that Batista gave to kind of absolve his own military men of the crimes of the repression that they'd committed in Batista's name and also letting Castro go. And Castro went into exile in Mexico and started to plan the next insurrection. You know, the revolution itself was a complete miracle. Fidel organized a landing on a small boat called the Grandma. He had 82 insurrectionists that he had recruited, among them Che Guevara from Argentina. They landed in Oriente province and they were immediately attacked. Literally as they were getting off the boat, they were attacked by Batista's planes. And all but 12 of them were killed at the landing. And the 12 that survived included Fidel, his brother Raul and Che guevara. And these 12 guys went into the mountains and started three years of efforts to overthrow Batista, which eventually succeeded in a national uprising. On December 31, 1958 and January 1,

[Fidel Castro (voice actor or archival audio)]

1959, Castro met an all out government offensive with a counter attack and in the battle for the key rail center of Santa Clara, won the crucial victory. Batista resigned to prevent more bloodshed and fled the country. His departure touched off wild rejoicing in the capital as the first elements of rebel forces entered Havana. This was the scene of turmoil in the capital Havana, as the climax of revolution was reached. Anyone suspected of sympathy for the Batista regime came in for a rough time.

[Jamie Bresson]

Where was the US in this? What was the US position?

[Peter Kornbluh]

The United States was fully behind Batista in terms of supporting him, giving him arms, having him kind of the bulwark against leftist radicalism which revolution was associated with. Batista was basically an asset, a client of the US companies that were in Cuba and the more importantly the Mafia, which had him on their payroll so they could run prostitution and drugs and alcohol sales, alcohol running to the United States and the casinos that were raking in money for the Meyer Lanskys of the world.

[Fidel Castro (voice actor or archival audio)]

This was the scene of turmoil in the capital Havana, as the climax of revolution was reached. Anyone suspected of sympathy for the Batista regime came in for a rough time. The mob was certainly out of hand. One of its aims apparently being to get all the furniture out of the casino and burn it.

[Peter Kornbluh]

Some of the biggest hotels in Cuba at that point were run by the Mafia and owned by the Mafia. So Valencia Batista was, was in the pocket of, of US interests and supported by US interests. There are some younger CIA people, actually took one of them to Cuba to meet Fidel Castro to talk about the Bay of Pigs. And he told this incredible story that there were young members of the CIA team that was watching, monitoring Castro's efforts to foment revolution against Batista between 1956 and 1959 and that they were all Fidelistas. As the CIA officer told Fidel during this conference, they were all fidelistas because they knew what a thug Batista was. And in contrast Fidel at that point looked like this romantic, young, you know, upper middle class revolutionary. And there were people rooting for him inside the CIA's Caribbean Caribbean task force at the time.

[Jamie Bresson]

Batista flees the country following this kind of years long fight and a general strike across Cuba I think in 1959 and, and Castro returns to Havana and is sworn in as Prime Minister in

[Fidel Castro (voice actor or archival audio)]

front of the Presidential palace in Havana. Nearly a million people, which is just about the whole population of this capital city gathered at the bidding of their new leader, Fidel Castro. The summary court martial and executions of Batista followers have brought criticisms from abroad, especially America. Castro wanted to know how his countrymen felt on the subject. And the hysterical reception shows that Cubans would support just about anything he did.

[Jamie Bresson]

And within just a few months he's in Washington. But then President Eisenhower refuses to meet him. The next year he comes back to the US staying in Harlem, New York and he spends time with American civil rights leaders like Malcolm X and foreign dignitaries like Egyptian President Gamal Al Nasser and Russian President Nikita Khrushchev. These early trips to the US are kind of central to Castro's lore today and loom large in the story of these two countries. And just can you tell me a little bit more about these trips and why they were so formative?

[Peter Kornbluh]

Castro was immediately popular throughout Latin America. He first went to Venezuela on his first foreign trip, I think outside of Cuba after the revolution. And tens of thousands of Venezuelans came out to cheer him in the streets. And the CIA station chief in Caraca sent a cable back to headquarters saying we have really got to be worried about the popularity of this guy. And then Castro got invited by the American press club Basically, not by the White House, but by a media association to come to Washington.

[Fidel Castro (voice actor or archival audio)]

Well, are you saying that you don't hate your enemies and you don't hate us either? Yes, not today. To the public, to the people of the United States, sincerely. But they think about the cities of the United States, that they are very nice and noble people.

[Peter Kornbluh]

And Eisenhower really didn't want to meet with him. And Eisenhower basically said, why? I have another meeting or I'm going to be out of Washington. But instead, Richard Nixon did meet with Fidel Castro. So Castro did have an extremely high level meeting in April of 1959 on his first trip to the United States post revolution. And my organization, the National Security Archive, obtained Nixon's report to Eisenhower on the conversation with Castro, which was quite eye opening, to tell you the truth. And let me just read you the conclusion of this report that Nixon sends to Eisenhower after meeting Castro for the first time. He basically says, we had a long meeting. I tried to tell him to do this, that and the other. I tried to share with him how dangerous Communism was. I don't know how far I got. He's either naive about communism or already a dupe of communists. But the one thing we can be sure of, Nixon wrote in his conclusion, is that he has those indefinable qualities that makes him a leader of men. Whatever we may think of Castro, he is going to be a great factor in the development of Cuba and very possibly in Latin American affairs generally. Because he has the power to lead men which I have referred to. We have no choice but at least to try and orient him in the right direction. Direction. So this is, by the way, not the only meeting that Castro has. He goes from Washington to New York and the CIA comes and holds its first secret meeting with him in which they try and recruit him basically to fight Communists inside Cuba and the rest of Latin America on their behalf. The CIA Latin America officer named Gary Droller meets Castor at the Statler Hilton Hotel secretly and they spend three hours smoking cigars together. And Droller trying to convince Fidel that Communists really are a threat to his revolutionary government and that the CIA can help him ferret out all of the Communists that are around him. And Castro basically says, sure, send me the names of everybody you think I should try and figure it out. And they begin this first kind of back channel effort as Fidel leads them on. And at that point we also got the documents from the CIA about that meeting and they basically felt that he was going to be the spiritual leader of Democratic forces in Latin America. The CIA could not have been more wrong about Fidel Castro. I think people don't understand that Fidel was not a member of the Cuban Communist Party.

[Fidel Castro (voice actor or archival audio)]

I am not communism. I do not agree with communism. My ads prove there is no doubt for me between democracy and communism. That is why we call our ideas humanism, because we not only want to give freedoms to the people, but to give the way of getting their life to eat, to live.

[Peter Kornbluh]

He had not declared himself to be a Marxist during the revolution. The revolution was a nationalist revolution, not an ideologically driven revolution. It wasn't actually supported by the Cuban Communist Party because communist parties in Latin America at that time were focused on electoral channels to power rather than insurrectionist channels to power. And it was only when the United States attacked militarily Cuba at the bay of pigs 65 years ago on April 16, 1961, that Fidel, at that moment during the attack, declared Cuba to be a socialist state and reached out to the Soviet Union for some type of protection.

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[Fidel Castro (voice actor or archival audio)]

Dressing.

[Peter Kornbluh]

Dressing. Oh, French dressing.

[Fidel Castro (voice actor or archival audio)]

Exactly.

[Peter Kornbluh]

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[Jamie Bresson]

Before that, Castro, he oversees his program to nationalize Cuban industries, right? Sugar, electricity, banking. And he also moves to expropriate large privately owned estates, many of which were plantations. And the US responds as I understand, to this nationalization project from Castro, with an embargo, right? Essentially an act of economic warfare designed to strangle the Cuban economy. And just why did they do this and what was the effect of that?

[Peter Kornbluh]

The revolution was intended to make Cuba independent in terms of its foreign policy, in terms of its economy, in terms of its sovereignty from the dominion that the United States had exercised over Cuba since the turn of the 20th century since the implementation of the Platt Amendment. And to do that, Fidel foresaw certain needs. He wanted to not be dependent on US Oil. This is just so similar to what's going on today, where the United States has today cut off oil to Cuba. And at that point, U.S. corporate interests, standard Oil, basically controlled the refineries in Cuba. And even though oil came from other places that was refined by a US Company. So Castro basically said, I want to nationalize this refinery. I want to be able to get oil from other places besides the United States to be refined so that I'm not dependent on the United States. He also said, US Companies should not be able to control all of Cuba's plantations and agriculture. So he started down the road to agricultural reform. And this is what really turned the United States against him. He received a delegation from the Soviet Union to talk about ending Cuba's dependence on US Trade and having other options as trading partners. And once he did this, this got the CIA turned against him, State Department turned against him. And the State Department started issuing memos suggesting we should cut Castro off, we should cut Cuba off. We should foment deprivation, hunger, the loss of access to money in Cuba by instituting an embargo. Because this is the only way to end Castro's popularity. He's very popular, and it's going to be very hard to overthrow him. To start down the road to ending his popularity and having Cuban people blame him for deprivation, we should begin the embargo. And under Eisenhower, two things happen. Half the embargo was implemented, which was a cutoff of U.S. exports to Cuba. And Eisenhower authorized the CIA to start planning for a Bay of Pigs paramilitary invasion that would overthrow the Castro revolution that was inherited by John Kennedy. It failed.

[Fidel Castro (voice actor or archival audio)]

It is not the first time that Communist tanks have rolled over gallant men and women fighting to redeem the independence of their homeland. Nor is it by any means the final episode in the eternal struggle of liberty against tyranny anywhere on the face of the globe, including Cuba itself.

[Peter Kornbluh]

Kennedy thereafter actually did implement the second half of the embargo In February of 1962, cutting off Cuban exports to the United States, US imports of Cuban goods. And so by then, By February of 1962, we had a complete trade embargo with Cuba.

[Jamie Bresson]

And then, as you said, Castro explicitly turns to the Soviet Union for support. And following very shortly after this, we get the Cuban Missile crisis, right? Probably the most significant event that we're discussing today, 13 days in which the world came as close as it has ever come. To nuclear war. Essentially, the US Discovers Soviet nuclear missiles on the island and the Soviet Union and the US end up in a nuclear standoff. And just could you walk me through how Cuba came to the center of that confrontation and how much agency Cuba itself actually had in that moment?

[Peter Kornbluh]

If you look closely at the history, you will see that there is a straight line from the CIA's invasion at the Bay of Pigs to the Cuban Missile crisis. In April of 1961. The CIA led a paramilitary force of exiles that it had trained in Guatemala to attack Cuba from the sea.

[Fidel Castro (voice actor or archival audio)]

And by parachute, the rebels have struck along the coast within 90 miles of Havana. Initial accounts of the fighting sketchy, but strafing and bombing of communications and military targets reported with heavy casualties.

[Peter Kornbluh]

The force was defeated by Castro's military and Castro's militia in 72 hours.

[Fidel Castro (voice actor or archival audio)]

But the fiery bearded Castro is hardly short on words as he attacks what he calls United States imperialism and calls on sister Latin American republics to aid Cuba.

[Peter Kornbluh]

But it was quite clear to the Cubans that the United States aggression knew no limits and that if the United States was going to attack again, it would attack with full scale military intervention. And the Bay of Pigs itself had led Castro to declare Cuba a socialist state and to call upon the Kremlin to support Cuba. And in the aftermath of the Bay of Pigs, Cuban officials did go to Moscow. Raul Castro, Che Guevara, both went. They signed a defense pact with Nikita Khrushchev, the premier of the Soviet Union. And as part of that defense pact, Khrushchev decided the Soviets should secretly put nuclear missiles in Cuba as a deterrence for any future US Attack. And he broached this idea to Fidel. Fidel agreed to it. Castro wanted this to be done openly. The United States had openly put nuclear missiles aimed at the Soviet Union in Turkey, in Italy, elsewhere. Under international law, there was no prohibition to one country putting nuclear missiles in another for defensive purposes. So why couldn't it be done openly? And Khrushchev's position was, well, it has to be a fait accompli, because otherwise, politically, Kennedy will be forced to attack. And so we have to do it secretly. And of course, the CIA only discovered the building of the missile sites at almost the last moment in October of 1962, which started the missile crisis and the most dangerous moment in the Cold War.

[Fidel Castro (voice actor or archival audio)]

It shall be the policy of this nation to regard any nuclear missile launched from Cuba against any nation in the Western Hemisphere as an attack by the Soviet Union on the United States, requiring a full retaliatory response upon the Soviet Union.

[Jamie Bresson]

You know, after, after we get through the Cuban Missile Crisis. You know, one thing I wanted to ask you about is sort of the legacy of Fidel Castro's reign, right? Because one of the most striking things about Cuba through the Cold War is that despite its relatively small size and all of the economic constraints that they faced, the country was able to project some power across the world. Cuba sent tens of thousands of soldiers and all kinds of resources to assist in wars of liberation in places like Angola and Guinea Bissau. Fidel Castro became himself this kind of anti colonial hero and grew great friendships with leaders like Nelson Mandela as a result. At the same time through the 60s and 70s, Cuba offered asylum to a number of black American political dissidents. To activists in the U.S. cuba represented a place of refuge and resistance. But at the same time the country was ultimately still a one party state with all kinds of limits on dissent and general freedom. And how are those two realities able to coexist?

[Peter Kornbluh]

Well those are the two legacies of Fidel Castro's revolution and his regime. Cuba was a one party state. It really became a one man state for many decades with Fidel Castro exercising really complete control over the island. His historical legacy in the world was different than his dictatorial legacy in Cuba. He projected soft power. Cuba was a fairly significant sized Caribbean island, but certainly not one that would be expected to play a role in the history of the world. And here he was transforming the island into a major player, one a Latin American country that had stood up to the colossus of the north, the David versus Goliath. Cuba became a model of resistance to the United States. But you know, I think many US officials would look back on Cuba, including officials, presidents such as Barack Obama and and admit that Cuba had been on the right side of history and the United States had been on the wrong side when it came to supporting the struggle against apartheid in South Africa. I mean it was Fidel Castro who was the supporter of Nelson Mandela's movement to end white supremacist rule in South Africa. And the same with Cuba's position in the African countries that were fighting against still colonialism in the 1970s. And here, this little island, Cuba was sending troops to Angola and after that to Ethiopia. You can imagine Kissinger was absolutely beside himself. We have the declassified memos of his conversations with Gerald Ford referring to Fidel as a pipsqueak. What does that pipsqueak think he's doing challenging us in Africa? Because of course the United States had a different position In Africa, they were supporting more pro colonial governments in that region.

[Jamie Bresson]

And what about life for ordinary Cubans on the island?

[Peter Kornbluh]

You know, there's a lot of controversy about Fidel's legacy in Cuba. On the one hand, he universalized education. He made sure that all Cubans had health care. He expanded Cuba's doctors program not only to create many, many doctors for the Cubans themselves, but also a surplus of doctors to send around the world. They are still in countries now, although the Trump administration is pressuring those countries to expel Cuban doctors. And, you know, so. So the Cuban Revolution had, for a while, great fame for its levels of education, the levels of healthcare. But of course, there were no kind of democratic rights. There was no opposition. There were no political parties besides the Communist Party that Fidel led. He was in power for over 50 years. And then, of course, his brother took over from him, Raul Castro. So Cuba has, I think, a great. A mixed legacy in the end, when the revolution in some ways, depended on having subsidies from first the Soviet Union and then from countries like China and finally Venezuela. So in some ways, the revolution was kind of made possible by these very unique arrangements that Castro was able to secure. But once those arrangements were no longer possible, as is the case today, the Cubans are looking at the United States once again becoming the dominant patron and dominant power in Cuban society, Cuban economy, and Cuban politics. And that's where we are today.

[Jamie Bresson]

You mentioned Obama before he became the first president in nearly a century to Visit Cuba in 2016. This is a trip that you were on. And just how significant a trip and moment was that at the time? Did it. Did it really feel like things were going to change?

[Peter Kornbluh]

Well, President Obama, to his great credit, decided to try and normalize relations with Cuba. He took the long view that if relations were normalized with Cuba, the United States would evolve once again to being the most significant economic influence on the island. The United States and its economic gestures, its economic connections, its companies, its finances would be able to help the Cuban private sector develop. Eventually, the private sector would expand way beyond the state sector in Cuba, and that would end up changing Cuban politics over the long run. So Obama basically engineered secret talks with the Cubans that lasted over two years. And by the way, most of those secret meetings took place in Canada, in Ottawa and Toronto. It was top secret. In great contrast to today, it was kept under wraps so that it would be successful. And it was dramatically announced on December 17, 2014, by both governments. Raul Castro went on television in Havana. Barack Obama went on television in Washington. They both announced this incredible agreement.

[Barack Obama (voice actor or archival audio)]

In the most significant changes in our policy in more than 50 years, we will end an outdated approach that for decades has failed to advance our interests. And instead we will begin to normalize relations between our two countries. Through these changes, we intend to create more opportunities for the American and Cuban people and begin a new chapter among the nations of the Americas.

[Peter Kornbluh]

There would be a rapprochement, normal relations, restored embassies, new diplomatic ties in an effort to remove the embargo that was in place and to try and push this rapprochement forward. Ten years ago, this past weekend, President Obama went to Havana. He became the first president on a state visit to Cuba since the revolution.

[Barack Obama (voice actor or archival audio)]

For more than half a century, the sight of a US President here in Havana would have been unimaginable. But this is a new day between our two countries.

[Peter Kornbluh]

I was so fortunate to be part of the White House press corps and go with him on that 48 hour trip. And it was electrifying. The Cubans loved him. Cuban people across the board. He managed to get his message to the Cuban people. He appeared on Cuban television on the most popular show that Cubans watch. The Real Obama.

[Barack Obama (voice actor or archival audio)]

Yes, the real Obama.

[Fidel Castro (voice actor or archival audio)]

Who's this? My name is Pamphilo.

[Barack Obama (voice actor or archival audio)]

The Real Pampilo From a TV show?

[Fidel Castro (voice actor or archival audio)]

Yes, yes.

[Peter Kornbluh]

It was a comedy satire show where he distinctly wowed everybody. He was able to give a major speech at the Grand Theater, which he addressed the Cuban people and addressed directly Raul Castro, who was in the audience sitting right above me, by the way, in the theater. And I have to say, you know, I was proud to be an American citizen at that point and watch my president make a civil effort to normalize relations in a respectful way with Cuba. And he gave a long speech which is well worth listening to. But he said two things that are kind of haunting now. He looked across the audience to Raul Castro on the balcony in front of

[Barack Obama (voice actor or archival audio)]

him and said, and to President Castro, who I appreciate being here today. I want you to know, I believe my visit here demonstrates you do not need to fear a threat from the United States.

[Peter Kornbluh]

He says the United States has neither the intention or the capacity to change, to impose change on Cuba.

[Jamie Bresson]

I think the obvious question is how we got from there to here, where I think I quoted in the introduction that the president of Cuba is now saying that they are prepared for peace talks or a state of war. And the current president is talking about how he can do whatever he wants with Cuba.

[Peter Kornbluh]

Yeah, Trump's United States is very different from Obama's United States. And Trump does want the Cuba to fear the United States, and he does want the Cubans and the rest of the world to know that the United States has both the intention and the capacity to impose change on Cuba.

[Fidel Castro (voice actor or archival audio)]

Taking Cuba, I mean, whether I free it, take it, I think I could do anything I want with it. You want to know the truth? They're a very weakened nation right now,

[Peter Kornbluh]

whether it's by coercion, such as an economic warfare, by cutting off all of Cuba's petroleum resources from abroad, or whether it's by military warfare, such as the surgical strikes on Venezuela or the attacks on Iran, which we should recall assassinated the Iranian leadership on the very first day. These are the things that Trump wants the Cubans to know right now. We are living in a different world today in which the president, in my opinion, wants to be an aspiring emperor and needs an empire. And frankly, I think the Canadians as an audience, understand what I'm talking about when I say that it just so happens that Cuba has a long history already that precedes the Cold War. Really has nothing to do with the Cold War of being the object of US Imperial and imperialist intentions. And if there's one comparison to be made today, it's that Trump wants to return the United States to the era of the Platt Amendment, where the Colossus of the north openly dictated what its dominion would be in Latin America and particularly in Cuba.

[Jamie Bresson]

Peter, thank you so much for this.

[Peter Kornbluh]

Well, thank you for having me because it's an extremely important issue to discuss.

[Jamie Bresson]

All right, that's all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening.

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