Bill Gates’ Epstein connections

Summary

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Front Burner (CBC)

Episode: Bill Gates’ Epstein Connections
Date: June 12, 2026
Host: Aaron Ware (in for Jayme Poisson)
Guest: Emily Glazer (Pulitzer Prize-winning enterprise reporter, Wall Street Journal)

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the unraveling of Bill Gates’ public image due to his connections with Jeffrey Epstein. Host Aaron Ware and guest Emily Glazer examine the origins, depth, and fallout of Gates’ interactions with Epstein, based on recent Department of Justice (DOJ) files and new reporting. They assess how these revelations have affected Gates’ reputation, his philanthropic work, and the broader perception of the Gates Foundation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bill Gates’ Reputation—Rise and Reinvention

• Bill Gates built a reputation as a relentless tech visionary at Microsoft and later as a global philanthropist. (01:00-03:00)
• Early image: “It was kind of became this image of him as this monopolist.”
  — Emily Glazer (04:06)
• After leaving Microsoft as CEO in 2000, Gates and Melinda French Gates focused on founding one of the biggest philanthropic organizations—the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation—deliberately remodeling his public persona.
  — “They really work to trade that monopolist image of the past with Microsoft for someone who would then become more of a global philanthropist.”
  — Emily Glazer (04:06)

2. Gates’ Relationship with Jeffrey Epstein: Timeline and Details

• First meeting: Gates was introduced to Epstein in 2011, well after Epstein’s 2008 conviction for soliciting prostitution from a minor.
  — “Bill Gates actually said in his opening statement... he was introduced to Jeffrey Epstein... through people I trusted in my professional and philanthropic work.”
  — Emily Glazer (05:31)
• The intermediaries: Boris Nikolic and Melanie Walker, both Gates insiders, “also had extremely deep ties to Jeffrey Epstein.” (05:31)
• Gates has maintained he was unaware of Epstein's illegal activities; however, he did know about the 2008 conviction and has apologized for not checking Epstein's background diligently. (07:14-07:51)
• Nature of interactions:
  • Gates maintained the relationship was strictly philanthropic, focusing on a JP Morgan donor-advised fund.
  • DOJ files and Wall Street Journal reporting reveal their relationship was deeper—Epstein facilitated introductions (e.g., to Nobel committee head), participated in employee negotiations, and took photos with Gates and women at meetings.
  • “What we know now... is that their ties went much deeper. Jeffrey Epstein traveled with and introduced Bill Gates to the head of the Nobel Peace Prize committee... It was not just philanthropy.”
    — Emily Glazer (08:15)

3. Why Epstein Pursued Gates

• Epstein leveraged Gates’ name to boost his own credibility and access:
  “He hit this very sweet spot and was a unicorn in some ways, because Bill Gates by definition is like a technologist... also deeply interested in science... and he’s one of the world’s wealthiest people, extremely powerful and influential.”
  — Emily Glazer (09:48)
• “[Epstein] traded on Bill Gates’s name and name dropped him all the time. Because Bill Gates in many ways is like the pinnacle of the top.”
  — Emily Glazer (10:50)

4. The Role of Gates Insiders: Melanie Walker and Boris Nikolic

• Both facilitated Gates’ connection to Epstein post-2008.
• Melanie Walker had been mentored by Epstein since the early 1990s, introduced by Donald Trump.
  — “She met Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump at the Plaza Hotel in the early 1990s... [Walker] helped ingratiate Jeffrey Epstein into Bill Gates's world after that 2008 conviction.”
  — Emily Glazer (13:11)
• Nikolic became a conduit for Gates’ investments; Epstein inserted himself into business negotiations, sometimes leveraging personal information about Gates. (14:20-15:44)

5. Gates’ Personal Life and Blackmail Attempts

• At a Gates Foundation town hall, Gates admitted to “two affairs with Russian women” referenced in Epstein’s emails, though “in Bill Gates’s divorce proceedings, there were allegations relating to more than 20 affairs that had come up.”
  — Emily Glazer (15:59)
• Epstein used knowledge of Gates’ affairs in blackmail attempts, especially re: a Russian bridge player.
  — “Epstein was trying to blackmail Bill Gates by making one of these affairs, the one with the Russian bridge player, public... Epstein absolutely leveraged these different relationships.”
  — Emily Glazer (18:08)

6. Public Fallout and Consequences

• Gates has not been accused of any crime and maintains he was unaware of Epstein’s illegal activity. Nonetheless, the association has had significant repercussions:

  • Gates was dropped or “snubbed” from multiple major speaking engagements, conferences, and exclusive events:
    • India AI Summit, February 2026—attendance withdrawn. (19:26-20:30)
    • Major energy conference in Houston (CERAWeek)—appearance called off.
    • Berkshire Hathaway annual meeting—advised not to attend.
    • Microsoft CEO Summit’s exclusive dinner at Gates’ compound—canceled.
  • “It’s this cascading effect... it’s just not a good time. You’re kind of like tainted right now.”
    — Emily Glazer (21:30)

• Gates’ team is in crisis mode, hoping for “business as usual,” but the damage is “interwoven into his story now. He can’t get out of it.”
  — Emily Glazer (22:16)

7. Congressional Testimony and Ongoing Investigations

• Gates testified voluntarily - behind closed doors - before the House Oversight Committee investigating Epstein’s network (23:31).
  • Other high-profile individuals have also been questioned: Bill & Hillary Clinton, Leon Black, and others.
  • Gates acknowledged being around people abused by Epstein and provided names of other associates, such as former Harvard President Larry Summers.
    (24:08-25:30)
  • Lawmakers varied in their assessment: some found Gates “combative,” others noted he was cooperative.

8. Implications for the Gates Foundation and Gates’ Legacy

• Gates’ philanthropic impact is undeniable, with the foundation spending over $100 billion globally (malaria, TB, maternal, child health).
• Staff and affiliates feel destabilized; Gates’ personal controversy casts an “overhang” over the foundation and his ventures:
  • “It’s really tricky to just have this golden reputation going forward. I don’t think we’re going back to the pre-2026 version of Bill Gates… this is interwoven into his story now.”
    — Emily Glazer (27:01)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the transformation of Gates’ image:
  “They really work to trade that monopolist image of the past with Microsoft for someone who would then become more of a global philanthropist.”
  — Emily Glazer (04:06)

• On the nature of Gates’ ties to Epstein:
  “What we know now from these DOJ files, as well as a lot of reporting we’ve done, is that their ties went much deeper... It was not just philanthropy.”
  — Emily Glazer (08:15)

• On Epstein’s motives:
  “He hit this very sweet spot… Bill Gates by definition is like a technologist. He’s also deeply interested in science... He’s one of the world’s wealthiest people.”
  — Emily Glazer (09:48)

• On the fallout for Gates:
  “It’s this cascading effect. [He’s been] snubbed a number of times... you’re kind of like tainted right now.”
  — Emily Glazer (21:30)

• On Gates’ legacy:
  “I don’t think we’re going back to the pre-2026 version of Bill Gates. And I’m not quite sure what the future version of Bill Gates looks like.”
  — Emily Glazer (27:01)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:38-03:16 — Gates’ career and reputation trajectory
• 05:20-08:15 — How Gates and Epstein met; the deepening of their relationship
• 09:48-11:45 — What Epstein wanted from Gates
• 13:11-14:20 — Melanie Walker’s and Boris Nikolic’s roles as connectors
• 15:59-17:47 — Gates’ affairs become public; blackmail evidence
• 19:26-21:30 — Snubs and public fallout
• 23:31-25:30 — Congressional testimony & investigation context
• 27:01-28:43 — Foundation legacy and enduring damage

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Conclusion

This episode presents a clear, detailed chronicle of Bill Gates’ fall from unblemished global philanthropist to a figure whose judgment, connections, and legacy are openly questioned. Gates’ testimony and new revelations mean his reputation will remain under scrutiny for the foreseeable future, with ripple effects for his philanthropic endeavors and public life.

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Transcript

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[CBC Announcer]

This is a CBC podcast.

[Aaron Ware]

Hi, I'm Aaron Ware in for Jamie Poisson.

[Bill Gates]

At Microsoft, I worked night and day and that was how I made sure Microsoft stayed ahead. I could be so extreme.

[Bill Gates (Philanthropy Statement)]

You never understood the first thing about this.

[Bill Gates (Early Microsoft Interview)]

Microsoft hit a new record high on Wall.

[Aaron Ware]

That's from a trailer for Inside Bill's Brain, a glowing Netflix series from a few years ago about Microsoft co founder Bill Gates. Gates became famous as an unrelenting tech visionary and later built a reputation as a global health and climate philanthropist. But that reputation has started to fracture, largely because of one man, Jeffrey Epstein. The partial release of the Epstein files revealed extensive communication between Epstein and Gates, his foundation, and the people who worked for him. In his opening statement, he said that he never witnessed nor had any indication that Epstein was engaged in ongoing criminal conduct and he was unequivocal that he has never victimized anyone. Emily Glaser is a Pulitzer Prize winning enterprise reporter with the Wall Street Journal. She's been covering Gates and his connection with Epstein for. Emily. Thanks for joining us.

[Emily Glazer]

Thank you for having me.

[Aaron Ware]

So Bill Gates is obviously a household name. As I mentioned, he's had this reputation as a tech visionary and philanthropist. I don't think anyone would argue that he has accomplished really significant things, both with Microsoft, one of the world's biggest tech companies.

[Bill Gates (Antitrust Trial Testimony)]

Our first big contract was in 1975.

[Bill Gates (Early Microsoft Interview)]

And you were what, 20, 21?

[Babbel Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Bill Gates (Early Microsoft Interview)]

Are you kind of half telling me, though, that you're not in it for the money?

[Bill Gates (Antitrust Trial Testimony)]

I don't think anyone at the company is in it for the money. It's a much more exciting field than trying to measure exactly how much we're selling or how much it's worth. The creation of these programs is something you can sit down and see people enjoying and solving real problems.

[Aaron Ware]

And more recently, with the Gates foundation, one of the world's largest philanthropic organizations.

[Bill Gates]

It's all about great primary health care, taking care of pregnant women, taking care of young kids, and adding great new tools. We're at a crossroads and we're asking people to step up and remain committed to all of humanity, especially its children.

[Aaron Ware]

And some of this portrayal or the effort that's gone into his image, I take it is a response to the reputation he had essentially before the Gates foundation became to prominence.

[Emily Glazer]

Absolutely. So let's go back in time a little bit. Bill Gates co founded Microsoft in the 70s. He became more of a household name in the 80s. And then in the 90s, he really became famously known when he took the stand for this big antitrust trial. And he was defending Microsoft and was very combative and defensive. There were a lot of. I do not recalls.

[Congressional Questioner]

What were you thinking when you wrote the sentence?

[Bill Gates (Antitrust Trial Testimony)]

I don't remember specifically writing the sentence.

[Congressional Questioner]

Does that mean you can't answer what you were thinking when you wrote the sentence?

[Bill Gates (Antitrust Trial Testimony)]

That's correct.

[Congressional Questioner]

Okay, so since I. Since that question is that you don't have an answer to. You don't have an answer to that question. Let me put a different question.

[Bill Gates]

No, I have an answer.

[Bill Gates (Antitrust Trial Testimony)]

The answer is I don't remember.

[Congressional Questioner]

Okay.

[Emily Glazer]

It was kind of became this image of him as this monopolist. And his team, there are dozens of staff that handle his and his empire's communications. They have worked really hard over the years. You know, he left. He was no longer CEO of Microsoft around 2000. Around that time, he and his wife, Melinda Frenchgate, started the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. And they really work to trade that monopolist image of the past with Microsoft for someone who would then become more of a global philanthropist.

[Bill Gates (Philanthropy Statement)]

I've learned that success depends on knowing what works and bringing resources to the problem. We know what to do. The generosity we are asking for can save millions of lives. Someday in the future, all people, no matter where they are born, will be able to lead a healthy life.

[Emily Glazer]

You know, sweaters, Mr. Rogers, esque, calm, approachable. And that's what they have been working on for a number of years. And it brings us to, like, the Bill Gates that many of us now know more recently.

[Aaron Ware]

Yeah. And his reputation now has taken a real hit since the connections between him and Epstein have been made public. What do we know about how they met?

[Emily Glazer]

Well, we know now a lot more than we used to know. So first, I do want to say it has been known for several years that Bill Gates had ties to Jeffrey Epstein. What's changed in the last couple of months is just how deep those ties were. And that the things that Bill and his team had been saying for years were not the full truth. And like that has largely been exposed, as it has for a lot of other people, powerful people, where we now have all these emails and documents that have been released by the Department of Justice starting late in 2025 and into this year. So what we now know is that Bill Gates and Jeffrey Epstein met in 2011. Bill Gates actually said in his congressional, his opening statement to congressional movement members in early June just recently, that he was introduced to Jeffrey Epstein. And these are his words, quote, through people I trusted in my professional and philanthropic work. We know that to be two of his longtime associates at the Gates foundation who both ended up working in his private office for a time, Boris Nikolic and Melanie Walker. And those were two, two of his closest confidants. And he worked with them for many years. And it turns out they also had extremely deep ties to Jeffrey Epstein.

[Aaron Ware]

Just to go back a bit, in 2008, Epstein pleaded guilty to one count of soliciting prostitution and one count of soliciting prostitution from someone under the age of 18. And that date is notable because Gates started his relationship with Epstein, as you say, after that, not before. Gaetz hasn't been accused of any wrongdoing and he hasn't. And he has said that he wasn't aware of Epstein's illegal activities, but he did reportedly tell the Oversight Committee this week that he was aware of the 2008 conviction. How has he justified his choice to still connect with Epstein?

[Emily Glazer]

Well, he also has told the Gates foundation employees in a town hall earlier this year that with Epstein, he was aware of some, quote, 18 month thing that had limited Epstein's travel, but that Bill Gates didn't properly check his background. And of course, he's profusely apologized for this now over and over again, Bill Gates has said time and again that, that his ties to Epstein were focused strictly on philanthropy. And that is how he has justified it so much over the years. He said that Epstein had a network of all of these extremely wealthy people and that they were trying to create this fund. It was a donor advised fund, sometimes known as a daf, that would be philanthropic and it would be global. And they were going to work with JP Morgan and they were going to like do all this great philanthropic work and raise all this money. So that was how it was justified publicly. What we know now from obviously these DOJ files, as well as a lot of reporting we've done, is that their ties went much deeper. Jeffrey Epstein traveled with and introduced Bill Gates to the head of the Nobel Peace Prize committee. Jeffrey Epstein was involved in negotiations between Gates employees and Gates himself with, when some of them exited in different ways. And Bill Gates posed for photos with Epstein and the women around him before, after some of their meetings. And those are photos where the women's faces have since Been redacted and there's a lot more as well. But it was not just philanthropy.

[Aaron Ware]

Building relationships with rich and powerful people was Epstein's mo. As we know, though we also regularly communicated with scientists, academics and tech leaders. But Epstein seemed particularly focused on getting close with Gates. Do we know why or what was in this for Epstein?

[Emily Glazer]

Essentially, I'm going to speculate for just a moment and then I'm going to give you a better answer. You mentioned, you know, his interest in science and scientists and academics. And then also, of course, we know he was very interested in like the wealthy and powerful. And Bill Gates is both of those. So I feel like he hit this very sweet spot and was a unicorn in some ways, because Bill Gates by definition is like a technologist. He's an inventor, an innovator. He's entrepreneurial. He's also deeply interested in science and does all this work with the Gates foundation to try to eradicate infectious diseases. And he, over the years has founded a nuclear power company and he does climate investing work. So he's doing all this stuff that has some tie back into science in one way or another. At the end of the day, though, to truly answer your question, Jeffrey Epstein traded on Bill Gates's name and name dropped him all the time. Because Bill Gates in many ways is like the pinnacle of the top. You know, he isn't a CEO anymore, but he's one of the world's wealthiest people. He's extremely powerful and influential. You know, for years, for decades, he could demand meetings with world leaders. And what I heard from my sources is that these world leaders would come to him on his schedule at his location. You know, that's usually not the case. And people really almost treated him like he was a world leader in himself. It's like he had this mini government of sorts. And I think that that was extremely appealing to someone like Jeffrey Epstein, who had regularly mentioned Gates in emails. We see this now. Whether he was meeting with him or not, he just made it seem like they were very close and that he had access.

[Aaron Ware]

Par le tu francais?

[Bill Gates (Early Microsoft Interview)]

Hablas espanol?

[Aaron Ware]

Parl italiano?

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[CBC Announcer]

Jacqueline Furlin Smith, a 40 year old former Canadian military trainer, moves to Costa Rica to follow her dreams. But in the summer of 2021, vanishes without a trace.

[Emily Glazer]

How can a woman just go missing and us put out all that effort to find her and she's still missing?

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I'm David Ridgeon and this is Someone knows something Season 10, the Jacqueline Furlan Smith Case. Listen ad free on Amazon.

[Aaron Ware]

Earlier this week, some of your colleagues at the Wall Street Journal reported about a woman named Melanie Walker who had worked at the Gates foundation and who had close ties with both men. Can you tell me more about her and how she fits into all this?

[Emily Glazer]

Yes. So there are really two people that are the tie in between Jeffrey Epstein and Bill Gates. One of them is this guy, Boris Nikolic, and the other is this woman, Melanie Walker. Both, both of them worked at the Gates foundation for years and both of them then spent time working at his private office, which is called Gates Ventures. Melanie Walker is the one that really goes far back with Jeffrey Epstein. He had been a mentor to her, had supported her and advised her for nearly three decades. What my colleagues reported is that Melanie Walker has told several people that she met Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump at the Plaza Hotel in the early 1990s after she graduated with honors from the University of Texas. And in a 2018 email introducing a neurosurgeon to Epstein, she even wrote, quote, I've known Jeffrey 28 years and this isn't a joke. Donald Trump introduced us, end quote. And she, along with this guy, Boris Nikolic, helped ingratiate Jeffrey Epstein into Bill Gates's world after that 2008 conviction that you mentioned.

[Aaron Ware]

And in his opening statement to Congress, Gates said he cut off contact with Epstein in 2014, but was drawn back into a negotiation with him years later because of an employee. What's your read of that?

[Emily Glazer]

He's referring there, I believe, to Boris Nikolic. What's fascinating is that I've poured through these DOJ files and, you know, if you know, to look for other people's names besides Bill Gates, you start to uncover this trove of fascinating information. And so back in late January, I believe it was January 30th, when the file DOJ released this batch of files that included all this information about Bill Gates and people close to him. It included a bunch of these emails and other documents where it shows that Jeffrey Epstein helped arrange for Bill Gates to invest in a biotech fund that was started by this guy, Boris Nicolic, one of Gates's longtime top advisors, and that he had also dangled allegations about Bill Gates's extramarital affairs when he was putting this deal together. And so this was back in 2013. This whole correspondence shows that Gates agreed to ultimately invest tens of millions of dollars into a venture with Boris Nikolic as he was leaving Bill Gates private office, and that Epstein really inserted himself into those negotiations.

[Aaron Ware]

You also reported in February of this year that Gates revealed to staff at the Gates foundation that he had participated in two affairs. Can you explain the significance of those revelations?

[Emily Glazer]

Absolutely. So Bill Gates has this town hall internally known within the Gates foundation as BG Unplugged. It was a previously scheduled town hall, but it happened to be really interesting timing because it was just a couple of weeks after that batch of DOJ files were released that had a lot of information about Bill and other people close to him and Jeffrey Epstein. So a ton of employees are sitting in the atrium of the Gates Foundation Seattle headquarters. Sitting in the front row is Bill Gates's girlfriend, Paula Herd, one of Bill's sisters, and Larry Cohen, the longtime CEO of Gates Ventures and Bill's right hand man. And Gates, you know, is basically like bearing his soul and really getting personal with his employees. And he acknowledges, you know, right from the beginning, the chief communications officer of the Gates foundation says they're going to be talking about Jeffrey Epstein and asks for context as to why Bill's name appears in the files. So he acknowledges these two affairs with Russian women that were referenced in Epstein's emails. And what I found to be very interesting from reporting on this and then talking to sources after is that we had been aware. We had actually the Wall Street Journal reported on one of those affairs back in 2023. It was a Russian bridge player. And then we knew there were other women, and we knew the number was more than 2. And so it was like a little surprising that he was kind of bearing his soul and just mentioned two affairs. And some people familiar with the matter that I spoke with and that we later reported said when they had heard about his admission to staff, there was almost like shock and disbelief because it turns out in Bill Gates's divorce proceedings, there were allegations relating to more than 2020 affairs that had come up.

[Aaron Ware]

Right. And there's also that Gates claims, if I understand correctly, that Epstein used his knowledge of his affairs, along with what Gates calls, quote, many lies that he layered on top, unquote to try to exert pressure on him. How does that claim line up with what we see in the Epstein documents?

[Emily Glazer]

Well, we know Even back in 2023 that Epstein was trying to blackmail Bill Gates by making one of these affairs, the one with the Russian bridge player, public. And we can see through these emails that Epstein refers to the affairs on different occasions and certainly appears to threaten Bill Gates. So that does line up. But Epstein absolutely leveraged these different relationships that he had with people, and he learned things about Bill Gates personal life and then was trying to leverage them.

[Aaron Ware]

So following on the revelations of Gates ties to Epstein, there's obviously been wider fallout. Despite the fact that Gates has not been accused of any wrongdoing, and he's made clear that he didn't know about Epstein's illegal activities, we've seen world leaders reportedly become more hesitant to be seen with Gates. Speaking engagements have been impacted, and some distant seems to have been put between him and Microsoft. How much has this association with Epstein damaged Gates ability to operate as a philanthropist, as a public figure, as a power broker? And do you think that damage is still growing?

[Emily Glazer]

Well, this is so much of what I was looking into earlier this year, and what we exclusively reported is that he's actually been snubbed a number of times that were not known. So I want to travel back to February, and Bill was in India. Some of this became public at the time he was in India to make this big keynote address at an India AI summit. Had traveled across the world to get there. And there was this back and forth, basically where, you know, his name suddenly wasn't appearing in certain keyword searches on of attendees. On the website and in local media reports. Indian government officials are saying that that his participation is under review because of the Epstein ties. And then the Gates foundation tweets like Bill will still be participating. And then what we reported is that he was stationed at the Oberoi Hotel in New Delhi, kind of waiting to see if he would attend this dinner with Prime Minister Modi and French President Emmanuel Macron and other business leaders, and that the people who were going were part of the summit. And then ultimately he didn't go. And ultimately the Indian government officials told his team team it was just too much of a distraction to have him there. And so he had to pull out. And pretty embarrassingly, we also report that this huge energy conference in Houston called Sarah Week, that the organizers had had discussions with Bill's team about him giving a marquee speech. And that was in late March. And ultimately the organizers said you know what? This just isn't a good time. We know then that in early May, Bill usually attends the Berkshire Hathaway annual shareholders meeting. His longtime friend Warren Buffett had run that company. Bill had served on the board. And Bill didn't attend for the first time in a number of years. And we were told that some people advised him not to go. Technically he was not disinvited, but he was told it would not be a good idea to go. And then the last one, which I think is the most burning one, the most telling one, is that Bill for years has hosted this special exclusive dinner as part of Microsoft's annual CEO summit. They invite CEOs of some of the biggest companies and other business leaders to Bill's compound in the state of Washington. They host this ultra exclusive dinner and weeks before the event, Bill's team was told, we're not gonna, you're not gonna do it this year, not a good time to do it. So as you could see, it's this cascading effect. And that really gets us to May because this hearing and the deposition, the congressional deposition is in June and it's just all leading up to that. And people from different parts of the world and different sectors are just kind of saying, you know what, it's just not a good time. You're kind of like tainted right now.

[Aaron Ware]

And is it, this is maybe asking you to speculate a bit, but is it possible that these snubs are just temporary or is there a sense that this is a long lasting problem for him?

[Emily Glazer]

What I know from sources is that they, in different aspects of his empire, different companies, they're acting like it's business as usual. But I know that there is this inner circle that has been furiously preparing for the hearing, hoping that things will return to normal afterwards. And it's just too early to say. I know that there are some trips that have been postponed. I know that they've been really like slowing down on any kind of outward facing appearances. And so this summer will be an interesting test if he's going to get back out there. And I think we'll just have to keep our eyes and ears open. But I know at least from talking to sources that I don't think there's going to be some immediate switch that's to going, going to pop back on and act like everything has returned to normal because this is interwoven into his story now. He can't get out of it. He had to testify in front of lawmakers. Like that is a such a big deal that his team built a replica of the exact room that he would be answering questions in so that he could prepare and not mess up.

[Aaron Ware]

So on Wednesday, Gates testified before the House Oversight Committee as part of the committee's investigation into Jeffrey Epstein.

[Bill Gates]

Glad to be here voluntarily to testify to help with the committee's work. I'll start with an opening statement in the hearing room. I hope my testimony is helpful to the work, important work of the committee to find justice for the victims.

[Aaron Ware]

This was done in private behind closed doors. But what do we know about the expectations around it? Was there something in particular the committee is trying to get at? Is there, is there something the committee is particularly pursuing here?

[Emily Glazer]

So since Bill Gates did go in voluntarily, he did have some privileges afforded to him. You mentioned it was obviously closed door hearings. So it wasn't videotaped. They were able to push it back a couple of weeks to be flexible with his schedule. And that also, of course, gave him time to prepare. And we know that the House Oversight Committee has been questioning a number of people, including Bill and Hillary Clinton, about Epstein. More recently, the US Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick, former Attorney General Pam Bondi, and we know that the billionaire Leon Black and the departing Goldman Sachs general counsel, Katherine Ruemmler are also scheduled to appear before the committee in the coming weeks. So they're very much focused on trying to figure out all these different ties that Jeffrey Epstein had, trying to understand if there's any wrongdoing. They are trying to figure out and get to the bottom of this because there's so many documents released and there's so much information and it's difficult to piece it together, trying to figure out who else is involved. We know now, you know, Bill Gates publicized his opening statement, and then the Democratic lawmakers held a press conference halfway through. Representative James Comer, the chairman of the committee, had a gaggle right before it started. You know, everyone's kind of like talking about it more now. And it sounds like the most interesting information to come out of this is that, you know, Bill Gates did acknowledge that he was around people who were, who were abused. He shared names of other people in Epstein's circle that the lawmakers seemed to be interested in speaking with, including former Harvard President Larry Summers, who left his teaching role at Harvard and has been known to have ties to Epstein. And, you know, there were questions about whether Bill Gates is going to be treated as just sort of like a VIP person and wealthy or if there's kind of more to it. And like, if he's going to be punished for his actions or if there is anything to punish. And we didn't really get an answer on that necessarily. Some people, some of the lawmakers said he was combative, but overall we heard he was pretty cooperative.

[Aaron Ware]

So to sort of tie this all together, I want to come back to where we started, to Gates and the power of his reputation. Because in his statement to the oversight committee, Gates said, quote, in the work I do, reputation is the basis for developing partnerships that save lives. Meeting with Epstein was a grave error in judgment and put this work at risk. You know, according to its own accounting, the Gates foundation has spent more than $100 billion on charitable support globally over the past 25 years, including hundreds of millions on malaria and tuberculosis prevention. So when we step back, what has the Epstein connection meant not only for Gates legacy, but for the Gates foundation and the work it does?

[Emily Glazer]

I don't think it's black or white. I. There's no doubt that Bill Gates has done so much incredible work that has impacted the world. You mentioned some of the spending they've. The Gates foundation has worked to eradicate infectious diseases. They're working on maternal health and trying to reduce childhood mortality. They're doing a lot of development, agriculture and otherwise in Africa and other parts of the world. There is a lot of good they do. And I think part of what was so jarring and for a number of the current and former employees in his empire that I've talked to, is that they're often so mission based that to have their founder be dragged into this over and over again and all the stuff about his personal life and Epstein getting into the personal life and just kind of like questions about Gates character and his morals and his ethics are questioned and, and that that's also an overhang over his reputation and also the work that the foundation does, the work that his nuclear power company TerraPower does, his climate investment firm Breakthrough Energy, even the investments that his private office, Gates Ventures does. So I don't think that diminishes that work, but I think it makes it really tricky to, to just have this golden reputation going forward. I don't think we're going Back to the pre2026 version of Bill Gates. And I'm not quite sure what the future version of Bill Gates looks like. I think that is going to be a little bit determined by him and how truthful he is going forward.

[Aaron Ware]

This has all been really interesting. Thanks very much, Emily.

[Emily Glazer]

Thank you.

[Aaron Ware]

That's all for today. Frontburner was produced this week by Matthew Amha Mackenzie Cameron, Bridget Stringer Holden, Kevin Sexton, Mia Johnson, Kieran Oudshorn and Kristin de Jagger. Our YouTube producer is John Lee. Our music is by Joseph Chappison. Our senior producers are Imogen Burchard and Elaine Chao. Our executive producer is Nick McCabe. Locos. I'm Aaron Ware. Thanks so much for listening.

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