Bondi Beach and the ISIS connection

Summary

Front Burner (CBC) – "Bondi Beach and the ISIS connection"

Date: December 19, 2025
Host: Jayme Poisson
Guest: Lucas Weber, Senior Research Fellow at the Sufan Center & Senior Threat Intelligence Analyst at Tech Against Terrorism

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Episode Overview

This episode examines the tragic mass shooting on Bondi Beach in Sydney, Australia—a Hanukkah gathering targeted by assailants reportedly motivated by ISIS ideology. Host Jayme Poisson and counterterrorism expert Lucas Weber break down details of the attack, connections to global jihadist networks, the renewed ISIS threat landscape, and the international context fueling the group's resurgence.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Bondi Beach Attack: Facts and Investigation

• Attack Details:
  • 15 killed, including Rabbi Eli Schlanger and a 10-year-old girl, Matilda.
  • Perpetrators: Sajid Akram (father, 50, Indian origin) and son Naveed Akram (24, Australian-born). Sajid was killed at the scene; Naveed is hospitalized and charged with terrorism/murder ([02:40]).

“Naveed was investigated by ASIO in 2019 … because of alleged associations with the Sydney-based Islamic State Network.” – Lucas Weber [03:17]

• Suspects' Background:

  • Sajid had arrived in 1998 on a student visa and was a licensed gun owner.
  • Naveed previously associated with a controversial pro-IS preacher ([03:17]), investigated in 2019, but not deemed an imminent threat.

• Attack Methods:

  • Weapons obtained legally by Sajid, modified with scopes.
  • Naveed trained at a shooting range, indicating premeditation and skill ([04:46]).

Suspects' Travel to the Philippines

• Uncertain Motive:
  • The duo traveled to southern Philippines in November 2025.
  • Philippine authorities deny confirmed links to militant training; some reports suggest possible "militant-style training" ([06:02]-[06:52]).

“If this is the case that they … had contacts with IS militants, it would be the Islamic State East Asia Province.” – Lucas Weber [06:52]

• IS East Asia Province (ISEAP):
  • Once a significant force in the region, now diminished but active online.
  • ISEAP militants maintain social media profiles openly, simplifying online recruitment/contact ([08:08]).

ISIS Propaganda and Online Activity Post-Attack

• Online Extremist Reaction:
  • Islamic State channels publicly celebrated the attack, urging replicates ([09:30]).
• Propaganda:
  • ISIS's official newsletter praised Bondi attack, called for targeting Christian and Jewish events during the holidays ([09:30]).
  • Notably, increased chatter inciting attacks globally, including in Europe and North America.

“The editorial was praising the Bondi beach attack. ... called for more attacks against Christians and Jews. … called for attacks on Christmas, New Year’s Eve kind of holiday events.” – Lucas Weber [09:30]

• Global Threat Environment:
  • Recent plots foiled in Germany, Poland, US; arrests in Canada and Austria ([10:34]-[11:03]).
  • Heightened international vigilance around holidays, with some events in France restricted ([11:03]).

Why Is ISIS Activity Rising Again?

• Drivers of Resurgence:
  • The Hamas attack on Israel (Oct 7, 2023) and subsequent conflict have been leveraged by ISIS to radicalize, recruit, and incite violence.
  • The group exploits sectarian anger and grievances surrounding Israel-Gaza war ([12:24]-[14:08]).

“What the Islamic State has done, it has leveraged the hostilities stirred up by the conflict … to fundraise, recruit, conduct external operations, spur momentum.” – Lucas Weber [12:24]

• Increasingly Antisemitic and Anti-Christian Focus:
  • While historically antisemitic, ISIS has intensified calls for attacks on Jews and now Christians, exploiting current events ([14:19]).

The Evolving, Decentralized Threat

• ISIS in Syria:
  • Recent deadly ISIS ambushes on American personnel; resurgence despite caliphate’s fall ([15:21]-[16:07]).
  • Security of detention camps holding IS fighters/families is a growing concern, with active fundraising and prison breaks ("breaking the walls campaign") ([16:07]).

“...major problem with the humanitarian and detention camps in Syria which house IS fighters and their families. … often using cryptocurrency to try to help IS fighters and families escape from these camps.” – Lucas Weber [16:07]

• Global Spread and Multi-Vector Operations:
  • ISIS no longer launches external attacks mainly from Syria: current networks operate from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Somalia, the Sahel, Mozambique, etc. ([18:32])
  • Youth radicalization a concern, with evidence of recruitment on gaming platforms ([20:37]-[20:39]).

“At a time when I’m seeing all these threats … plotters are getting younger and younger. So we have a youth radicalization problem as well. I’ve been finding Canadian IS supporters on gaming platforms.” – Lucas Weber [20:37]

• Resource Gaps and Policy Challenges:
  • Western counterterrorism is deprioritized in favor of broader geopolitical focus and other domestic issues.
  • Resurgence is occurring despite shrinking resources ([18:32]).

Policy Responses and Their Limitations

• Australian Government Measures Post-Attack:

  • Expanding hate laws to cover “hate preachers,” withdrawing funds from groups supporting antisemitism, and considering visa pauses from “terrorist enclaves” ([20:40]).

• Expert Skepticism:

  • While accurate screening is vital, over-broad, politicized policies risk targeting legitimate activism/opinion and reducing effectiveness ([21:24]).

“There is a danger to this … activist groups [can] be deemed extremists ... could become politicized … a very difficult thing to navigate.” – Lucas Weber [21:24]

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Memorable Quotes

• On the Islamic State’s ability to radicalize online:

  “ISA is unique as a branch in that their fighters actually have their own profiles on major social media outlets … it would be very easy to reach out and kind of make contact with these individuals.”
  — Lucas Weber [08:08]

• On current Western preparedness:

  "Honestly, I do not think so. … There's shifting resources to other domestic issues... CT is kind of being pushed down in terms of priority. But this is being done at a time where we're seeing resurgence."
  — Lucas Weber [18:32]

• On policy risks:

  “There is a danger to this, but there also is a side that could work, but honestly don’t have. Not too optimistic.”
  — Lucas Weber [21:24]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:35] – Introduction and overview of the Bondi Beach attack
• [01:36] – Links to ISIS; preliminary details from authorities
• [03:17] – Naveed Akram’s extremism history
• [04:37] – Firearms, training, and operational effectiveness
• [05:49] – Suspects' trip to Philippines; possible connections/explanations
• [08:08] – ISIS presence and outreach in the Philippines
• [09:30] – ISIS media and supporter reaction post-attack
• [12:24] – Factors fueling the global rise in ISIS activity
• [14:08] – Evolution and escalation of antisemitic targeting
• [15:21] – Renewed ISIS violence in Syria; prison camps and operational risks
• [18:32] – State of Western counterterrorism preparedness; youth radicalization
• [20:40] – Policy responses and their complexities

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Tone and Style

The episode is sober, urgent, and analytical, with Lucas Weber providing case-based, real-time threat assessments and expressing concern over both global and local security gaps. The conversation is focused, rich in detail, and intended to help listeners understand both the specifics of the Sydney attack and its connection to wider patterns of ISIS activity.

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Conclusion

The Bondi Beach attack underscores the enduring, evolving threat posed by ISIS and its decentralized networks. The episode reveals gaps in detection and prevention, increased youth radicalization, difficulties around policy responses, and the ability of ISIS to amplify international crises for recruitment and incitement. Listeners are left with a nuanced understanding of how regional incidents reflect broader global security challenges, especially as extremist groups exploit ongoing conflicts.

Transcript

[Host/Announcer]

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[Lucas Weber]

Better make it go far.

[Host/Announcer]

Turns out mom didn't know she needs a new car this year.

[Jamie Poisson]

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[Host/Announcer]

This is a CBC podcast.

[Jamie Poisson]

Hi everybody. I'm Jamie Poisson. Funerals are underway for some of the 15 people killed in a mass shooting attack on a Hanukkah gathering in Sydney, Australia this past weekend. Thousands of mourners gathered at the funeral of Rabbi Eli Schlanger on Wednesday.

[Lucas Weber]

To his dear, dear children, whom he loved and devoted himself to endlessly, just know that your father will always be with you. To his colleagues and friends, he was more than just another rabbi. He was a force.

[Jamie Poisson]

And many gather to remember the youngest victim from Sunday's attack, a 10 year old girl named Matilda.

[Host/Announcer]

She's genuinely the most kind, caring and compassionate young girl who brightened everyone's day with a radiant smile, an infectious laugh.

[Jamie Poisson]

Meanwhile, we've been learning more about the two suspects involved. The Australian prime minister and police have said that the gunmen, a father and son, were motivated by Islamic State or ISIS ideology.

[Lucas Weber]

The evidence which is being procured, including the presence of Islamic State flags in the vehicle that has been seized, are a part of that.

[Jamie Poisson]

Well, it's been over six years now since the fall of the caliphate and when ISIS dominated the headlines. Experts like Lucas Weber say that there has been a troubling rise over the last couple of years in Islamic State motivated activity worldwide. He is a senior research fellow at the Sufan center and a senior threat intelligence analyst at Tech Against Terrorism. So we have him here today to talk about the details that we're learning about the Bondi beach attack, what they tell us about the potential for more attacks like it, and what the evolving presence of ISIS as a decentralized terrorist network looks like now. Lucas, hi. Thank you so much for coming onto the show.

[Lucas Weber]

I'm glad to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

[Jamie Poisson]

Let's first run through what we're learning about the suspects. They are 50 year old Sajid Akram and his 24 year old Australian son, Naveed Akram. Sajid was fatally shot on scene. Naveed was critically injured and hospitalized. Now it's Naveed's car, the sun, where police say they found two homemade ISIS flags. Police have charged the surviving suspect with 59 offenses, including 15 counts of murder and one count of committing a terrorist act. And what else have authorities revealed about the younger suspect's possible links to extremism? I understand that he was investigated in 2019, right?

[Lucas Weber]

Yes, Naveed was investigated by ASIO in 2019 and it came to. He came to the attention of Australian Security intelligence organization in 2019 because of alleged associations with the Sydney based Islamic State Network. It seems that open source reporting kind of indicates that as a teenager, Naveed had connection to a pro is milieu in Sydney. He regularly attended a prayer space linked to a controversial preacher with a history of violent anti Semitic rhetoric. So there is quite a background there that would have raised red flags. But at the time they investigated and deemed him to not be an imminent threat.

[Jamie Poisson]

The father, Sajid Akram, originally from India, arrived in Australia in 1998 on a student visa. And since then he remained in the country with a resident visa. And he was a licensed gun owner. Right. It's worth pointing out that Australia's gun laws are quite strict already.

[Lucas Weber]

Yeah. So essentially the weapons were obtained legally by the father. The firearms that were used in the attacks, they went through a legal process to obtain them. Seems they had some components placed on them. Like a scope.

[Jamie Poisson]

Right. What do you make of the firearms used to carry out the attack? Like they're not semi automatic guns like we've seen in other mass shootings like this?

[Lucas Weber]

No, but it seems that. And it was reported that the son had actually trained at a shooting range. And when we look at the video from the attack, he was quite savvy and he really knew what he was doing. So that explains kind of the high death toll and casualty count, because in many cases when untrained attackers passed is attacks using guns, the kind of fatality rate is low and the casualty rate is usually low as well, because when there's a panic and we saw them perched at a high point, shooting onto the beach and around the vicinity, it's very difficult to hit moving targets unless you're trained. And they seem to have inflicted a very high casualty count in this kind of chaotic atmosphere.

[Jamie Poisson]

The authorities have also shared that the suspects traveled to the Philippines last month.

[Host/Announcer]

Reasons why they went to the Philippines and the purpose of that and where they went when they were there is under investigation at the moment.

[Jamie Poisson]

And Australia's public broadcaster ABC reported that sources are saying that they had traveled there for military Style training. Just what kind of training could they have received in that part of the Philippines?

[Lucas Weber]

Yeah, so I think it's important to say that the Philippine government has denied at this point that there's any evidence they went to a training camp. I know there was an ABC report that said they were, they went to a, you know, they were trained at an actual camp.

[Host/Announcer]

We're told by our counterterrorism sources that the father and son traveled there in early November to the capital, Manila, and then journeyed to southern Philippines, where we're told they participated in militant style training. They were there till late November.

[Lucas Weber]

What we know is that the father and son traveled to the Philippines for most of November, nearly a month. And they were staying in a hotel in Davos City, which is not too far, maybe a four or five hour drive from where you can find IS militants operating. But the hotel said that they stayed in their room most of the time. If this is the case that they were, they had contacts with IS militants, it would be the Islamic State East Asia Province. And maybe members visited them to kind of help give advice, or maybe they made shorter trips to locations outside of where they operate. It's. This is all, you know, possibilities and speculation. There's no real evidence at this point.

[Host/Announcer]

I also confirmed that the vehicle which is registered to the younger male, contained IEDs, but I also confirmed that it contained two homemade ISIS flags.

[Jamie Poisson]

You mentioned the IS province in the Philippines. I just. For people who might not know anything about IS activity in the Philippines, can you just tell me more about what's happening there?

[Lucas Weber]

Essentially, in the 2010s, ISEAP was making quite a push on Marawi, for instance, and they had a much larger footprint than they do now. Now it's with US support and international support, the Philippines military have been able to really degrade them. Now it's fragmented elements. They still have, you know, a decent amount of ranks. Maybe these two could have hooked up with wall there, but it's nothing like it used to be. But they are still very active online. For instance, my organization, Tech Against Terrorism, we often see ISEAP militants. ISA is unique as a branch in that their fighters actually have their own profiles on major social media outlets, ones, you know, run by massive Mag7 companies, corporations, which should be able to detect and remove these, but that's another topic. But it would be very easy to reach out and kind of make contact with these individuals since they run, you know, their own social media accounts with their faces and their names and their locations.

[Jamie Poisson]

Have you seen, I know that you follow a lot of extremist pages and channels and stuff after this horrendous shooting. Like did you see any reaction online.

[Lucas Weber]

In the kind of main Islamic State channels where they post their propaganda? They have massive discussion groups. They were celebrating the attack. They still are. They're kind of praising the Islamic State's province in the Philippines, if they were involved. They're calling for more attacks. And before this interview, a couple hours ago, the Islamic State central media, they put out a new issue of their official newsletter, Al Naba and the editorial was praising the Bondi beach attack. It was calling for more call for more attacks against Christians and Jews. It singled out Belgium. It called for attacks on Christmas, New Year's Eve kind of holiday events. And this is troubling as there's been a number of plots foiled in Germany and Poland very recently against holiday events. And just more generally recent is plots foiled in the U.S. prosecutors say two.

[Jamie Poisson]

Michigan men were planning an attack on Halloween similar to the 2015 ISIS attacks in Paris. Now they're releasing images of the suspects they say buying guns and practicing shooting them at firing ranges.

[Lucas Weber]

There's been arrests in Canada.

[Host/Announcer]

20 year old Zachariah Hussein from Calgary recently pleaded guilty to sharing ISIS recruitment and bomb making videos on TikTok and YouTube. Police raided his home and found sophisticated bomb making instructions and an ISIS flag.

[Lucas Weber]

There's been arrests in Austria, all across Europe, in Spain. Um, so it's a very troubling trend in environment we're facing at the moment and there's going to be certainly a heightened vigilance going into the holiday season. France, for instance, canceled some events or placed severe restriction on New Year's events. So there's a lot of chatter and indicators out there being picked up by intelligence and private intelligence indicating that there's an increased threat this year probably even compared to last year at this time as regards the Islamic State and its supporters.

[Jamie Poisson]

Add a little curiosity into your routine with TED Talks Daily, the podcast that brings you a new TED Talk every weekday. In less than 15 minutes a day, you'll go beyond the headlines and learn about the big ideas shaping your your future. Coming up, how AI will change the way we communicate, how to be a better leader and more. Listen to TED Talks Daily wherever you get your podcasts. Lucas, I, I, I wonder if you could try to explain to me why we've been seeing this rise in ice activity over the last several years.

[Lucas Weber]

After the fall of the Caliphate, for instance, there was kind of less gravity there to kind of move its supporters. But one real significant development was the October 7, 2023 Hamas attack on Israel and Israel's prolonged military response and the subsequent and enduring conflict. Within a few days of Hamas's attack and Israel's military response, there was a surge in simple tactics, stabbings, shootings and so on, in immediately, within that week, that month. So what the Islamic State has done, it has leveraged the kind of hostilities stirred up by the conflict and has tried to tap into the major grievances of the masses, kind of have regarding this conflict and capitalize on this, to fundraise, to recruit, to incite violence, to kind of conduct external operations on these grounds to spur momentum. So we're seeing this conflict being exploited. We're seeing Jews being targeted because according to their justification, the Islamic State's justification, because of what Israel is doing in Gaza and so on. So this is their framing, these are their propaganda narratives and so on. And it is kind of working quite well because even my organization, when we come across plots and flag them to governments, we come across these plots online. A very, very high percentage of them involve motivations relating to this conflict.

[Jamie Poisson]

The focus from the Islamic State on Jewish people calling for anti Semitic violence, is this new or consistent with their ideology all along? Like pre October 7th?

[Lucas Weber]

It's consistent, but it has been greatly intensified because this is a very potent topic. And with this conflict ongoing, they want to exploit it as much as they possibly can. And so they have a. They see a window to do this before maybe hostilities end completely, but they will still do it in the aftermath too. So I think this is a troubling trend that will continue for some time. And they're also calling for attacks against Christians as well. So they've really ramped up the kind of incitement towards religious populations, Jews being at the forefront, and then Christians as well. I think we will see, unfortunately, much more of this.

[Jamie Poisson]

I just want to zoom out here. Last weekend, two American military personnel and a civilian interpreter were killed in an ambush attack by an ISIS militant in Syria.

[Host/Announcer]

And we had three great patriots terminated by bad people and not the Syrian government. It was isis, Syrian government fought by our side. I can tell you in Syria, there will be a lot of damage done to the people that did it. They got the person, the individual person, but there'll be big damage done.

[Jamie Poisson]

As I mentioned in the intro, the caliphate there fell in 2019, but also a year ago. So did the Assad regime. And just what has ISIS activity looked like in Syria since then?

[Lucas Weber]

For a while it was quite suppressed. But we've seen in recent weeks, in recent months, is a drastic resurgence. So it is troubling and it seems that IS Syria is trying to reconstitute and they've seemingly been effective. They've taken the time to be patient, plan, they're very determined. And now it looks like they're starting to really activate in the kind of attack on US Soldiers that would likely require intelligence, it would require observation of the movements of these forces and so on. So it's, it's very troubling. Likewise, there's a major problem with the humanitarian and detention camps in Syria, which hose IS fighters and their families. Now we come across this a lot with tech against terrorism. We see kind of fundraising campaigns often using cryptocurrency to try to help the IS fighters and families escape from these camps. And there are still thousands and thousands of them in these camps. There's not much resources to kind of secure these camps. There's large smuggling networks, black market networks that are being conscripted into this, being tapped into. And we see it online almost daily on major social media platforms. And the crypto exchanges are being done on major crypto exchanges. So that is a real problem and something that could really, really kind of explode, you know, if countries can't repatriate them fast enough before something bad really happens. There's often prison break attempts and IS even has a campaign called breaking the walls campaign in which they attack with their fighters, these different camps all across Africa and in the Middle east to try to break families and fighters free, to kind of boost their operational capacity in the region. So this is also something to look out for.

[Jamie Poisson]

So given all that we've been talking about today, this increase in activity that you've been seeing, do you think Western governments are equipped to handle the threat, more ISIS motivated attacks?

[Lucas Weber]

Honestly, I do not think so. And combined with this, there's shifting resources to other domestic issues, CT resources and personnel away to other issues. There's, you know, the rise of great power competition, geostrategic competition, or geopolitics say US Russia, US China and so on has become the top priority. And CT is kind of being pushed down in terms of priority. But this is being done at a time where we're seeing resurgence. We have outside the Levant, several IS provinces controlling or contesting ground. We're seeing major IS networks with thousands in their ranks controlling territory in the Sahel, the Lake Chad region, in Somalia, in Mozambique, and on and on. So we're also seeing IS become more multi vectored in its External operation. So before there was a large concentration of external operation kind of apparatus coming from Syria, but now it's coming from Pakistan, it's coming from Afghanistan, it's coming from Somalia, it's now coming from Sahel. So these are things to look for at the moment. And at a time when I'm seeing all these threats, I'm watching them recruit online. So we have Canadian foreign fighters traveling to these theaters. A major iskp, which is the main external operations branch of the Islamic State, which carried out attacks in Turkey, in Iran, and in Moscow last year. One of their main English language propagandists was arrested in Canada a few months ago, and he's walking around free at the moment. So there's a lot of Canadian links and threats, and it seems that the plotters are getting younger and younger. So we have a youth radicalization problem as well. I've been finding Canadian IS supporters on gaming platforms.

[Jamie Poisson]

On a gaming platform.

[Lucas Weber]

Wow.

[Jamie Poisson]

Lucas has really. This is really chilling stuff. You know, I was watching the Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese announce that he would expand hate laws to, quote, hate preachers, halt funding to arts and research programs that support, quote, anti Semitic activities. In the wake of all of this, the government is also floating the idea of pausing the issuing of visas to any person from what they consider to be a terrorist enclave, including Gaza. And just what do you make of those measures? Do you think these actions would accurately target the source of threats like ISIS extremism? Do you think they're a step in the right direction or the wrong one?

[Lucas Weber]

If done correctly, yes, of course. Those coming in should be screened well, just so we know who they are and if they're involved in any terrorist groups. But there's dangers to this because as we've seen kind of activist groups be deemed extremists, there is a chance that this could become politicized. And that is very difficult thing to kind of navigate and maneuver and come up with a policy that is directly purposed to sort out and filter out extremists versus those with legal opinions in these countries that may not fit the political slant of those making the decisions. So, yeah, there is a danger to this, but there also is a side that could work, but honestly don't have. Not too optimistic.

[Jamie Poisson]

Okay, Lucas, thank you so much for this. Really appreciate it.

[Lucas Weber]

No problem.

[Jamie Poisson]

All right, that is all for today. Front Burner was produced this week by Shannon Higgins, Matthew Amha, Joyce Vishen Gupta, Matt Muse, Kevin Sexton, and MacKenzie Cameron. Our YouTube producer is John Lee. Our music is by Joseph Shabazzon. Our senior producer is Elaine Chow. Our executive producer is Nick McCabe Blocos. And I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening. We'll talk to you next week.

[Host/Announcer]

For more cbc podcasts, go to cbc ca podcasts.