Front Burner — "How Orwell’s Words Became Our Reality" (Nov. 7, 2025)

Episode Overview

In this episode of Front Burner, guest host Damon Fairless speaks with acclaimed documentary filmmaker Raoul Peck about his new film “2 + 2 = 5”, which explores the enduring relevance of George Orwell’s work. The discussion centers on how Orwell’s concepts—like doublethink, narrative control, and the manipulation of truth—are increasingly echoing in contemporary politics, surveillance, media, and public discourse. Peck draws direct lines from Orwell’s life and ideas to headline events and the state of democracy today.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Orwell’s Enduring Influence in Today’s Politics

• Pervasive Use of "Orwellian" Language:
  • Orwell’s terms—like doublespeak, Big Brother, and thoughtcrime—have entered everyday vocabulary and are invoked by all sides of the political spectrum. (03:37)
• Appropriation by the Right:
  • Though Orwell was a democratic socialist and an antiauthoritarian, his language is now used especially on the political right, often detaching it from its original intent. (02:16, 24:38)

Peck’s Motivation and Background

• Personal Connection to Doublethink:
  • Peck, raised in Haiti and familiar with the Western rhetoric used to justify unjust policies, explains how he grew up deconstructing “democracy,” “justice,” and “freedom” as practiced by Western powers. (03:33)
  • Quote: “I always had to deconstruct all my life.” — Raoul Peck (05:26)
• Orwell’s Insights as Timely and Timeless:
  • Peck stresses that Orwell isn’t writing speculative fiction, but warning from lived experience about the dangers of authoritarianism and language manipulation. (14:46, 16:12)

Manipulation of Reality and Narrative Control

• January 6th and the Present-Day Erasure of Truth
  • Peck points to the US Capitol attack as a "centerpiece" example where reality is actively rewritten by those in power.
  • Quote: “A sitting President is reinterpreting history to a way that fits his own agenda.” — Raoul Peck (06:21)
• Erasing Evidence Mirrors 1984:
  • Drawing a direct comparison to “1984,” both the film and Peck’s discussion portray current attempts to erase or distort truth as central to authoritarian control.
  • Quote: “You erase the picture, you erase the sound, because it doesn't exist, because it shouldn't exist. So it doesn't exist…” — Raoul Peck (07:04)

The Significance of Language and Inversion of Meaning

• Degradation of Language as a Threat to Democracy
  • Quote: “Orwell has this incredible sentence where he said the degradation of language is the condition for the degradation of democracy.” — Raoul Peck (09:59)
  • Language under authoritarian regimes ceases to provide shared meaning, making genuine debate or consensus impossible.
• Inversion for Manipulation:
  • Political leaders say “law and order” while encouraging lawlessness, creating dissonance and confusion.
  • Quote: “I am for law and order while encouraging rioters.” — Raoul Peck (10:21)

Literature and Censorship

• Book Bans and Information Control:
  • Attacks on literature and knowledge are hallmarks of authoritarianism; books serve as a “vaccine against ignorance.” (11:44)
  • Quote: “Books are a sort of vaccine against ignorance. So of course you would attack books… because in those books, potentially, there are writers analyzing your present behavior.” — Raoul Peck (11:44)

Orwell’s Biography: The Making of an Antiauthoritarian

• Orwell’s Experience in Empire:
  • Key formative experiences in Myanmar (Burma) led to Orwell’s anti-authoritarian outlook, having felt complicit in imperial oppression.
  • Quote: “He realized that in Burma he was basically a tool of imperialists… and he resented the character that he became…” — Raoul Peck (17:06)
• Rooted in Real Experience, Not Dystopian Fantasy:
  • Quote: “He was talking about what he went through… His books were warnings telling us, if you don’t watch out, this is where you’re gonna land.” — Raoul Peck (14:46)

Dystopia or Reality?

• Present Absurdity Over Distant Dystopia
  • Shows and films like Black Mirror echo Orwell, but Peck argues reality itself has become “absurd,” not just speculative fiction. (19:35)
  • Quote: “If it’s a way not to deal with reality, then I have a problem with it because reality, especially the one we are experimenting right now, is absurd.” — Raoul Peck (19:35)
• Orwell as a Toolbox for Analysis:
  • Peck sees Orwell as offering not just caution but analytical tools for understanding current crises.
  • Quote: “Orwell is providing you with the tools… to put names on what is happening today.” — Raoul Peck (20:17)

Historical Cycles and New Technologies

• Why Do Orwell’s Predictions Still Fit?
  • Surveillance, propaganda, and manipulation existed long before modern tech; new tools simply amplify old patterns.
  • Quote: “What is new is the technology applied, but in fact is analyzing capitalism… the relationship between classes, the relationship to profit.” — Raoul Peck (21:33)
• Orwell as Cold War Weapon and Misreading
  • Orwell’s work was posthumously appropriated for Western anti-Communist propaganda, often missing the broader warning against all forms of totalitarianism, left or right. (23:45)

Orwell Claimed by All, Misquoted by Many

• Broad Appeal, Deep Misunderstanding
  • Orwell’s language and warnings are now deployed by both the far-right and far-left, often without grasping Orwell’s true convictions.
  • Quote: “Ignorance is strength, you know, they make almost Orwell say the contrary of what Orwell says... it's a sort of rehabilitation of Orwell, it's a sort of putting Orwell back where he belongs.” — Raoul Peck (25:46)
  • Trump himself recently cited Orwell among great English writers, further illustrating the wide (and sometimes distorted) influence. (25:18)
• Orwell’s Words, Not “Alternative Facts”:
  • Quote: "There is no alternative facts for Orwell. You know, two plus two is not five." — Raoul Peck (25:58)

What Would Orwell Say Today?

• Nothing Has Changed—The Warnings Still Stand:
  • Quote: “I think he would shake his head and he would just say, I have nothing to add. This is exactly what I’ve been telling you 75 years ago… We just have to learn from history.” — Raoul Peck (27:21)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On narrative control and erasure of dissent (07:04):
  • “You erase the picture, you erase the sound… that’s the only way for any authoritarian regime to have influence upon you or upon the society is to redefine what is true and what is untrue.” — Raoul Peck
• Orwell’s own writing aims (12:13):
  • “I write it because there is some lie that I want to expose, some fact to which I want to draw attention.” — “George Orwell” (voice actor)
• Orwell’s motivation (18:44):
  • “My starting point is always a feeling of partisanship, a sense of injustice.” — “George Orwell” (voice actor)
• On the far-right invoking Orwell (25:58):
  • “That the far right is using it is because they are counting on the people's ignorance. On the contrary, Orwell, explain this behavior very well. That's what authoritarian regime again do.” — Raoul Peck

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction to Orwell’s legacy & language: 00:34 – 02:16
• Peck’s background and motivation for the film: 03:12 – 05:45
• January 6th and narrative manipulation: 06:21 – 08:15
• Meaning of “2 + 2 = 5” and forced reality inversion: 08:15 – 09:07
• The degradation of language & democracy: 09:07 – 10:13
• Modern book banning, knowledge control: 11:23 – 12:36
• Orwell’s biography, colonial experiences: 14:46 – 18:52
• Dystopia vs. reality; tools for understanding: 19:12 – 21:10
• Orwell’s insights on technology, class, and control: 21:10 – 24:38
• Left and right appropriating Orwell: 24:38 – 27:13
• What would Orwell say today?: 27:13 – 27:42

Tone & Style

The conversation is urgent but thoughtful, marrying historical analysis with pointed observations about the present. Raoul Peck speaks candidly and sometimes passionately, drawing from personal experience and rigorous research.

Takeaway

This episode frames Orwell not merely as a literary prophet, but as a trenchant analyst whose warnings were rooted in the struggle against imperialism, authoritarianism, and the corruption of language. Both the film and this conversation urge listeners to recognize Orwell’s relevance: not as abstract dystopia, but as a set of vital tools and warnings for understanding—and resisting—the manipulation of truth in our own times.