Front Burner – "Inside the Shadow War in Ukraine"

Date: October 9, 2025
Host: Jayme Poisson
Guest: Ben Makuch, national security reporter

Main Theme

This episode delves into the "shadow war" between Russia and Ukraine—a covert struggle involving sabotage, assassination, improvised explosives, and the recruitment of civilians (including teenagers) to carry out clandestine operations. Reporter Ben Makuch shares insights from his latest trip to Ukraine, exploring how both Russia and Ukraine are waging war beyond the frontlines and the impact of these under-the-radar tactics on both populations and the broader conflict.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Shadow War Defined

• The conflict has moved beyond the traditional battlefield, involving covert operations such as sabotage, use of homemade explosive devices, assassinations, and psychological warfare, often targeting civilians and infrastructure.
• [02:23] Jayme: "We are talking about improvised explosives like the one we just talked about, but also assassinations, sabotaging infrastructure and...recruiting civilians, many of them, as you just said, teenagers."

2. Russian Operations Inside Ukraine

• Russia is employing special forces, spies, and the FSB (its primary intelligence agency) to orchestrate sabotage and assassinations.
• A notable example: In July, a colonel in Ukraine’s SBU security service was killed in broad daylight in Kyiv. The brazen, amateurish hit was linked to Russian intelligence.
• Russia uses various methods to recruit Ukrainians into sabotage:
  • [04:37] Ben: "They're advertising either through militant terrorist organizations or criminal groups...We will provide you with X amount of money to, you know, burn down a car, a police vehicle...kill people, and we'll provide you money for it."
  • Recruitment often happens over encrypted Telegram channels or phone calls, sometimes impersonating Ukrainian authorities to trick targets.
• Russian networks have exploited not only those seeking money but also individuals sympathetic to Russia or those who are disgruntled or vulnerable, akin to methods used by terrorist groups in other conflicts.
  • [06:40] Ben: "There is still...pro-Russian people who live in Ukraine...They've tried to take advantage of people who are disgruntled."

3. The Role of Neo-Nazi Group "The Base"

• The Base, an international neo-Nazi terrorist group, has become entangled in Russian covert ops in Ukraine.
  • [07:58] Jayme: "They're this militant neo Nazi group with ties to Canada, but the US—how did they become involved with these Russian covert ops?"
  • The group created a Ukrainian "cell," echoing Russian efforts at sabotage and offering money for attacks via Telegram.
  • Its leader, thought to be a Russian agent, has facilitated propaganda and recruitment efforts.
  • [08:44] Ben: "The Base is believed to have started in 2018...associated with plans to attack Jews and other minority groups. Its leader...now lives in Russia and he's very much suspected of being a Russian agent."

4. Ukrainian Countermeasures

• Ukraine's SBU (security service) has responded with high-visibility campaigns like "Burn the FSB Man," warning youth about Russian recruitment. Local campaigns appear on billboards and in school visits, aiming to counteract Russian propaganda and recruitment.
  • [10:46] Ben: "They have these national campaigns...on billboards, YouTube videos…where they go to schools and...preach against just teens being recruited by the FSB."

5. Ukrainian Shadow Operations Inside Russia

• Ukraine has conducted its own series of covert missions within Russia:

  • Targeted assassinations of Russian officers, generals, and influential figures (including car bombs in Moscow and the North Caucasus).
  • Notable events include the killing of Alexander Dugin's daughter—allegedly a botched attempt to assassinate the ideological ally of Putin.
    • [14:11] News clip: "The daughter of one of President Putin's close ideological allies, Alexander Dugin, has been killed in a bomb attack."
  • Operation Spider's Web: Use of cheap, explosive FPV drones to target Russian strategic bombers deep inside Russia, such as in Siberia.
    • [14:30] Ben: "...deployed FPV drones...deep inside Russia, in some cases as far flung as Siberia, and bombed strategic bombers..."

• Ukraine’s “Resistance Movement” (Rukha Paru) recruits civilians in Russian-occupied territories to spy and coordinate airstrikes.

  • [15:21] Ben: "...a campaign of recruiting civilians who are in the Ukrainian occupied territories and they're getting them to spy on Russia...and to coordinate targets of airstrikes..."

6. Measuring Success: Who’s Winning the Shadow War?

• Both sides have achieved successes in their respective campaigns; yet, Ukraine’s asymmetric tactics have been particularly effective, compensating for Russia’s greater military strength.
  • [16:20] Ben: "...they're both fairly successful. I would say Vantage Ukraine, because it's more of an asymmetric attack...they’ve been very successful killing people. But Russia has also kind of struck this certain amount of terror inside of Ukraine..."

7. Impact on the Broader Conflict & Civilian Life

• The shadow war exacerbates the violence and trauma of the conflict, extending fear deep into civilian life and increasing the psychological toll.

  • [17:27] Ben: "...this war continues to degrade and decay into this kind of forever war, but also the desperation that's being used..."

• The ongoing covert attacks highlight the absence of meaningful peace negotiations and suggest deep mutual animosity and little willingness to compromise.

  • [18:42] Ben: "I mean, I think it shows you how little love or how much love between the two there is right now. And it's obviously reflective of the appetite for a peace deal because both sides seem to be pretty far away from each other."

• The constant threat and violence have created a collective trauma among Ukrainians, affecting all ages.

  • [20:19] Ben, recounting a soldier's story: "...he saw his small son...when they hear the air raid...the son goes and grabs pillows and runs into the hallway and puts the pillow over his head because he knows instinctually what to do..."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Russian-assembled IEDs:
  "I describe it as a Frankenstein fruitcake, but it is otherwise known as an improvised explosive device." — Ben Makuch [01:43]

• On psychological and physical tactics:
  "...shows just how nasty this is getting and how much of a psychological war it's becoming." — Ben Makuch [06:12]

• On neo-Nazi group The Base’s involvement:
  "Its leader is a man named Reynaldo Nazaro...worked for US Special Forces and had a top secret clearance at one point. He now lives in Russia and he's very much suspected of being a Russian agent himself." — Ben Makuch [08:44]

• On impacts to Ukrainian society:
  "I think there's a lot of collective trauma, honestly, I think that's something else people don't realize." — Ben Makuch [20:19]
  "[His son] goes and grabs pillows and runs into the hallway and puts the pillow over his head because he knows instinctually what to do." — Ben Makuch [21:55]

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Russian covert operations and use of IEDs: [01:43] – [04:33]
• How Russia recruits Ukrainians (Telegram, impersonation): [04:33] – [06:40]
• Neo-Nazi group The Base's involvement: [07:36] – [10:37]
• Ukrainian government counter-efforts ("Burn the FSB Man"): [10:37] – [11:41]
• Ukrainian special operations inside Russia & occupied Ukraine: [12:54] – [16:16]
• Comparing effectiveness, escalation, psychological toll: [16:16] – [20:19]
• Personal stories of trauma & civilian life: [20:19] – [22:18]

Overall Tone

The conversation is direct, empathetic, and filled with firsthand observation—not just analysis, but lived experience from both reporting and conversations with Ukrainian citizens and officials. There is a persistent sense of urgency and concern about the escalation and normalization of brutal, covert tactics in the conflict.

Summary Takeaway

This episode pulls back the curtain on the murky world of Ukraine's shadow war, revealing a grim but crucial dimension of the Russia-Ukraine conflict. Covert operations, civilian recruitment, targeted killings, and psychological warfare now permeate daily life. With both nations locked into increasingly desperate and vicious campaigns—and meaningful peace negotiations seemingly out of reach—the human trauma and strategic complexity of this war only look set to deepen.