Is Alberta headed for a general strike?

Summary

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Front Burner (CBC)

Episode: Is Alberta headed for a general strike?

Date: October 31, 2025
Host: Jayme Poisson
Guest: Janet French, CBC Edmonton Provincial Affairs Reporter

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the rapidly escalating conflict between the Alberta government and the province’s teachers, culminating in speculation about a possible general strike. At the centre of the controversy is Premier Danielle Smith's use of the notwithstanding clause to force striking teachers back to work, a move that has sparked outrage among unions and observers across the province. CBC's Janet French provides context and analysis, tracing how tense negotiations deteriorated and what could lie ahead for Alberta’s education system, workers, and political climate.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Teachers’ Demands and Government Stance

• Teacher Demands:

  • Wage increases to match and retroactively account for inflation (which rose ~21% since 2019, compared to teachers’ 3.8% in raises).
  • Improved working conditions, including legally enshrined student-teacher ratios or class size/complexity caps.
  • Support for increasing numbers of students with special needs, behavioral or mental health challenges, and language barriers.

• Government Position:

  • Refusal to negotiate enforceable class size or complexity caps.
  • Accusation that the union is being inflexible.

  “If you were to look at how many hours, or how much effort or time they're spending on their work, that's also a pay cut per amount of effort expended.” – Janet French (03:22)

2. Claims of Erosion of the Public School System

• Since 2019, policies have emphasized "school choice," increasing funding and support for private and charter schools.

• Private and charter schools can limit enrollment; public schools must accept all students.

• Changes in the law have supported school autonomy and restricted certain student rights, particularly 2SLGBTQ+ protections.

  “Public education advocates are really angry about this because...[choice policies are] increasingly siphoning [money] away from the public system.” – Janet French (07:28)

3. The Rejected Proposal and Why Teachers Walked Out

• The government touted a proposal including:
  • Raise offers of at least 12% (up to 17% for some),
  • 20% boost to substitute rates,
  • 3,000 new teachers, 1,500 new educational assistants.
• Why Rejected?
  • Wage promises were not as broad as claimed: “The numbers she's quoting are for teachers who have six years of post-secondary education. And that is not most teachers.” (09:23)
  • The hiring promises fell short, with just one or two new teachers per school, and high-need schools unlikely to benefit adequately.
  • Critically, there was no movement on class size or complexity caps, which unions say is essential.

4. Negotiation Breakdown and Potato Protest

• Teachers’ Association provided detailed proposals on class size caps, which the government rejected on cost grounds ($500 million/year), leading to “back to work” legislation.

• Premier Danielle Smith’s analogy (“more than one way to peel a potato”) was perceived as dismissive and led to protests with literal potatoes and costumes at the legislature.

  “It resulted in a giant pile of protest potatoes being piled on the steps of the legislature...Protesters dressed up like Mr. and Mrs. Potato Head.” – Janet French (12:14)

5. The Impact of Alberta’s Population Boom

• Rapid population growth (due to pro-migration ad campaigns and affordable housing) has overwhelmed schools.

• School boards have been requesting new schools for over a decade; government funding lags behind growth, exacerbating overcrowding and infrastructure strain.

• The government attributes class size increases to immigration, but Janet points out the pressure has existed for years.

  “For as long as I’ve been covering education here...enrollment has been rising at a steady pace in cities...Even in Red Deer, Grand Prairie, school divisions are adding an equivalent of one or two large high schools’ worth of students each year.” – Janet French (14:01)

6. The Use of the Notwithstanding Clause

• The government used the clause to impose a contract and freeze local bargaining until September 2028.

• Labor experts say less extreme legal mechanisms (such as back-to-work legislation and binding arbitration) were available.

  “The government will tell you that the use of that clause was absolutely necessary in this situation...I don’t think anybody was expecting the imposition of a contract.” – Janet French (18:30, 19:42)

• The clause’s invocation is described as controversial, with comparison to recent uses in Quebec and Saskatchewan on unrelated social issues.

7. Public and Political Response

• Polling: Early October poll—58% of Albertans are sympathetic to teachers; 28% of UCP voters side with teachers (20:50).

• Smith’s Framing: Premier Smith argues protecting learning time is paramount; government frames opposition as resistant to “fair” increases (20:22–21:49).

• Opposition Response:

  • Alberta NDP leader Nahid Nenshi has pledged never to use the notwithstanding clause and to restrict future government use (23:45).
  • Gil McGowan (Alberta Federation of Labor) calls the move anti-democratic and signals the possibility of wider labor action.

  “We will never, ever use the notwithstanding clause...Because we believe in human rights for everyone, not just when it’s convenient.” – Nahid Nenshi (23:45)

8. Is Alberta Headed for a General Strike?

• Unions are furious and discussing "unprecedented" responses, but mobilizing a legal general strike would require coordination across sectors and major risk-taking.

• Janet French notes there are barriers: each union must independently decide to join; risk of huge fines; solidarity across public and private sector unions isn’t assured; the window for public support may be short.

  “If it just became administratively impossible...to detain or fine, or send that many people before the Labor Relations Board...that’s the only scenario in which I think they would do it.” – Janet French (26:24)

• The social impact and public anger over rights infringement are difficult to gauge. Will this issue mobilize Albertans, or will relief at schools reopening defuse tensions?

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Rallying Cry:

  “Danielle Smith has awakened a sleeping giant. She has provided us with a rallying cry...that purpose is to topple this government.”
  – Gil McGowan (01:10)

• Government Steamrolling:

  “They’re using the notwithstanding clause to sidestep the Constitution and the courts. That leaves citizens and civil society as the final bulwark against Danielle Smith’s dangerous agenda for our province. No one is coming to our rescue. It is up to us.”
  – Gil McGowan (01:45)

• Public Sentiment:

  “It wasn’t just NDP supporters...28% of UCP voters said that their sympathies were lying with the teachers. And I think it’s because parents and grandparents can see with their own eyes what’s going in schools.”
  – Janet French (20:50)

• Political Commitment:

  “We will never, ever use the notwithstanding clause. And one of our first acts as government will be to introduce legislation restricting the use of that clause for all future Alberta governments.”
  – Nahid Nenshi (23:45)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:10] – Gil McGowan’s rallying cry and summary of union anger
• [03:01] – Janet French outlines teacher demands and government opposition
• [04:46] – Historical roots of public/private school friction, school choice, and impact on public system
• [09:19] – Analysis of the rejected contract offer and why teachers walked
• [11:56] – “Potato protest” and symbolic public response to government comments
• [12:59] – Immigration narrative and actual causes for class size issues
• [17:54] – Province orders teachers back to work using the notwithstanding clause
• [19:36] – Possibility of legal alternatives to the clause
• [20:50] – Public opinion polling on the dispute
• [23:45] – NDP vows against the notwithstanding clause
• [24:30] – Will anger be enough to spark a general strike? Weighing union logistics and risks
• [26:24] – Scenarios for a general strike and limits of union action

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Tone and Takeaways

The episode's tone is urgent yet explanatory—Jayme Poisson and Janet French break down complex political and legal issues, focusing on the lived reality for teachers, families, and citizens. The use of the notwithstanding clause is framed as dangerously exceptional, raising questions about democratic norms, government priorities, and the durability of Alberta’s social contract.

The potential for a general strike, while deeply uncertain, marks a new phase of labor unrest in the province and serves as a bellwether for wider resistance to government-imposed constraints on rights and public services.

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For listeners: This episode is an essential primer for understanding why a struggle between Alberta’s teachers and government could become a watershed moment in Canadian labor history, and what’s really at stake for schools, workers, parents, and democracy in Alberta.

Transcript

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[Janet French]

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[Darina]

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[Janet French]

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[Jamie Poisson]

Hey, everybody, I'm Jamie Poisson.

[Gil McGowan]

Daniel Smith has awakened a sleeping giant. She has provided us with with a rallying cry. We now have one common purpose, and that purpose is to topple this government.

[Jamie Poisson]

So that's Gil McGowan, head of Alberta Federation of Labor, announcing that the wheels are in motion for a possible general strike by the province's unions. They are furious over Premier Danielle Smith's decision to force striking teachers back to work earlier this week.

[Gil McGowan]

Now the Smith government is using its legislative majority to steamroll over the opposition. They're using the notwithstanding clause to sidestep the constitution and the courts. That leaves citizens and civil society as the final bulwark against Daniel Smith's dangerous agenda for our province. No one is coming to our rescue. It is up to us.

[Jamie Poisson]

At the core of this ongoing battle is Danielle Smith's use of the notwithstanding clause, which prevents the Alberta Teachers association from challenging the legislation in court today. Janet French is here. She is a provincial affairs reporter for CBC Edmonton. She's going to walk us through how these negotiations got to this point, what is at stake for teachers, their students and the government, and where this fight could be headed. Janet. Hey, it's great to have you.

[Janet French]

Thanks for having me.

[Jamie Poisson]

So let's talk a bit about how we got here. Hey. These negotiations have been taking place for over a year now, as I understand it. What have the teachers been asking for?

[Janet French]

Right. So the main points, as you might imagine, are wages, improved conditions in schools, and teachers wanting a manageable workload. When it comes to wages, inflation in Alberta has risen approximately 21% here since 2019. And the Alberta Teachers association, the ATA's argument is over that time, they've had new raises of about 3.8%. So what they want are wage increases that not only keep up with future inflation, but also account for past inflation. They also say that the workload itself has increased dramatically. So if you were to look at how many hours or how much effort or time they're spending on their work, that's also a pay cut per amount of effort expended. Because the sheer demand on the school system has really exponentially increased, not just from population growth, but also from demands of implementing new curriculum in multiple subjects. And the number of kids who have additional needs, who are not fluent in English. They might have behavioral challenges, mental health challenges, medical needs, disabilities. The numbers of kids, kids who are coming with those diagnoses or those needs are rising. And so these teachers feel like they're handling more and more and more demands that they're not equipped to deal with. So what they want is some kind of legal mechanism written like a student teacher ratio or class size or complexity cap. And the Alberta government has point blank refused to talk about it. And they've accused the teachers association in turn of being very inflexible on this point.

[Jamie Poisson]

And I know that Teachers association has been talking a lot about how they feel that the government is purposely eroding the public school system. And just. Can you talk to me a little bit about that claim and where it comes from?

[Janet French]

Yeah. This dates back right to the beginning of when the UCP was first elected under Jason Kenney in 2019. And one of the principles that he was really hot on is school choice.

[Jason Kenney]

This model is one of the great legacies of past progressive conservative governments. And basically it comes down to this. We in Alberta believe that moms and dads make better decisions for their children's education than big bureaucracies and unions. We don't think bureaucracies and unions should have a monopoly on parents tax dollars in the education system.

[Janet French]

So Alberta has the highest public level of person private school funding in the country. And private school enrollment really exploded at the start of the COVID 19 pandemic because a lot of people were switching to homeschooling or smaller environments. And private schools supervise a lot of these home education programs.

[Jason Kenney]

Sure, some kids learn best in a regular public school environment, but others learn better and flourish in specialized programs or in charter schools, and indeed in independent schools, in faith based schools, at home schools. The idea of school choice is to embrace our Canadian belief in pluralism and also to have a healthy dose of competition in the education sector.

[Janet French]

There's also a growth in immigration. And some families are looking for very specific religious or cultural schools. So that has also increased enrollment in the private school system, where more of those programs are available. And Alberta also has an educational system quirk, which is charter schools. This was created in the 1990s. It was supposed to be this kind of experimental, limited network of these publicly funded schools where educators could test out unique philosophical approaches to education. And if they were successful, they were supposed to be replicated in public schools across the province. That did not happen in any kind of coordinated way. And so Jason Kenney, he passed this act and changed the regulations and the rules around charter schools.

[Jason Kenney]

The Choice in Education act that says for the first time in Alberta law that we recognize as a fundamental human right that parents have the first say in how best to educate their children.

[Janet French]

He lifted the cap off the number of charter school organizations in the province. There used to be a maximum of 15. There are now 29 charter school authorities running 48 different schools.

[Jason Kenney]

We have created new charter schools, getting back to Alberta's tradition of innovation and competition to drive better results. And I think, most importantly, I stood before you in May of 2018 to say that we would stop the NDP's ideological left wing, politicized rewrite of the school curriculum. We kept our word.

[Janet French]

But public education advocates are really angry about this because they say it's increasingly siphoning. It might have just been a little bit of money at the start, but it's increasingly siphoning it away from the public system. And the public system is compelled to. To accept all students who arrive on their doorsteps. The private schools and charter schools are not. They can create wait lists, they can limit enrollment, and they can say, sorry, your student isn't the right type of student to come to our school. There's also these additional demands on teachers based on education policy in Alberta. So we saw a series of bills that some people feel really erode the rights of two SLGBTQ kids or trans kids. Members of Alberta's governing United Conservative Party are to debate a resolution surrounding gender pronouns in schools, schools and parental consent. The resolution notes Saskatchewan and New Brunswick are implementing similar rules. We've got teachers now who are required to ask students what their assigned gender was at birth to decide if they can play on girls sports teams. We've got teachers checking up on, you know, calling parents about whether their kid wants to change their pronoun. So this has really changed the culture of education in Alberta.

[Jamie Poisson]

So it's within this broader context that you've just laid out that the teachers voted down one proposal back in May. Right then at the end of September, a tentative agreement was voted down by 90% of the teachers. That last deal would have, as I understand it, or according to the government included, would have included pay raises of at least 12%, with 95% of teachers making up 12, 17% more. A 20% boost to substitute teacher rates, promises to hire 3000 new teachers and 1500 new educational assistants. So lots of stuff on the table here. And so why was the deal ultimately rejected?

[Janet French]

Yeah, that's, that's what Danielle Smith says the teachers will be earning. But there's much more nuance there. It's not the whole story. The numbers she's quoting are for teachers who have six years of post secondary education. And that is not most teachers. Many the standard they use to compare teacher salaries across the country are teachers who have five years of post secondary experience. But there's another twist as part of this contract, and the parties agree on this point, that there are 61 school boards in Alberta that have 61 different salary grids and they want to move to a unified grid. But how to do that and when to do that is is what there's a dispute on. So they do agree that most teachers will move to a higher salary grid because it would be a bit unfair to say, sorry, we're changing salary gr you go to a lower one. So one of the goals is to get everybody on the Grand Prairie public schools grid. And that's where these extra little salary bumps come from for some teachers, is that their grids and their pay bands are low enough that they would see up to 5% increases. Others are going to get zero. And others aren't changing grids yet at all. So it's really all over the map. As for the 3000 extra teachers and the 1500 extra educational assistance teachers have pushed back hard against this. They say there are more than 2,000 schools in Alberta. So just simple math. Obviously they wouldn't be distributed evenly, but that's still only maybe one or two teachers per school on average, maybe one ea. And they're saying, you know, there are some schools that need five or six more teachers, five or six more easy.

[Jamie Poisson]

So the teachers say these concessions aren't good enough. They go on strike. October 6, 51,000 teachers walk off the job that affects over 750,000 kids who have been stuck at home, which, you know, must be fun for all their parents. The next week, the province offered up an enhanced mediation process that would have sent everyone back to classrooms but the association, the teachers association rejected that offer because hard caps on class sizes and student teacher ratios would not be part of that discussion. And why would that be excluded from the negotiations?

[Janet French]

That's a question that I would love a comprehensive answer to. And that has not been provided. And when we've asked the finance minister and the premier, what they tell us is the union is not being flexible by insisting on these hard caps, it prompted kind of a now infamous comment from the premier that there's, quote, there's.

[Danielle Smith]

More than one way to peel a potato.

[Janet French]

That where she was trying not to use like a more crass analogy. And then teachers found that really insulting and it resulted in a giant pile of protest potatoes being piled on the steps of the legislature that they then donated the food bank. And protesters dressed up like Mr. And Mrs. Potato Head. And yeah, so we're the, the potato analogies are, are, are flowing. So at first the government was kind of saying like, we have no idea what the ATA is asking for. The union's totally offside with the members and we're so confused. So the ATA comes back to them with this super specific proposal, like here's a formula and here's what we want in terms of like a gradual phase in, of student teacher ratios that accounts for students who have higher needs being weighted higher in this formula. And that was the beginning of back to work legislation. The government said, nope, that's too expensive. That would cost $500 million more per year. It's unreasonable. We have a deficit. Hard note.

[Jamie Poisson]

The other thing I wanted to talk to you about is that the Alberta government has made a concerted effort over the past few years to encourage Canadians to move from other provinces to Alberta.

[Jason Kenney]

Anybody in Canada has the right to achieve the middle class dream of homeownership. And that dream is alive and well in Alberta. So says the province's premier, Jason Kenney. While visiting Toronto last week, Bloor Young station is now wrapped literally with Alberta is calling messages claiming less taxes, cheaper homes and more jobs.

[Jamie Poisson]

And it worked, right? Alberta's population grew more in 2023 than any year in its history. I don't know if it's because of that ad campaign, but that's what happened. The Smith government, including her Education minister Demetrios Nicolaides, have blamed the exploding class sizes on unchecked immigration from outside the country.

[Demetrios Nicolaides]

We did, however, receive a historic amount of new Canadians flooding into the province that I know has put pressure on, on many other provinces.

[Jamie Poisson]

I know, Premier, was there a lack of planning there? Just Talk to me a little bit more about this population boom argument.

[Janet French]

Yeah, so one of the narratives has been, let's call it selectively factual. Alberta's economy has historically been at the mercy of these oil booms and busts. And there have been many of those over decades, our whole history as a province. And it, it doesn't just draw people who work in oil and gas here. Right. It means that there's a boom and investment in universities and in research, manufacturing and construction and other industries that support all those industries. So lots of demand for labor, lots of lures to attract people here during those booms. And the people who move here are young, they have families or they bring kids with them. For as long as I've been covering education here, with the exception of the first year of the COVID 19 pandemic, enrollment has been rising at a steady pace in cities. And in these bedroom communities around Edmonton and Calgary, even in, like Red Deer, Grand Prairie school divisions are adding the equivalent of one or two large high schools worth of students to their divisions each year. And during the Alberta is Calling campaign, that growth accelerated. You mentioned 2023 and even 2024 were years of exceptional population growth because housing was so much more affordable here. Was, was affordable here. But the problem existed before that boom. So school boards have been begging, pleading for new suburban schools for more than a decade. And no government of any stripe has been willing to keep up with the demand to build those schools in suburban areas where we're seeing the most growth. There's since been this $8.6 billion promise that you'll hear from government officials a lot to build 90 schools. But it's going to take up to seven years to build all those schools. And some schools are absolutely maxed out on portable and modular classrooms. They legally and physically cannot add more. And so what we're hearing now is we can't have class size caps because there's no space. But educators will say that's not true. Even if you put two teachers in a class of 45 or 50, that still makes a difference to the experience, educational experience, that children are receiving.

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[Jamie Poisson]

So this all brings us to Monday, right So they've been on strike. It's been very disruptive, I'm sure, for people all across the province. And the province moves to order the teachers back to work. And significantly, they use the notwithstanding clause to do it, which is this kind of get out of jail free card essentially around the charter of rights the provinces have. It's very controversial. We talked about it on the show many times before.

[Janet French]

The notwithstanding clause allows governments to override certain charter rights. Its use is rare. The teachers union is exploring legal options, including an emergency injunction.

[Jamie Poisson]

There's a lot of people who believe that provinces are using it too much in recent years. In 2019, Quebec invoked the clause to prevent public employees from wearing religious symbols, and in 2023 Saskatchewan used it for legislation about sex education in schools and notifying parents when students change their name or pronouns. Why would the province need to use the notwithstanding clause here?

[Janet French]

So the government will tell you that the use of that clause was absolutely necessary in this situation. And they say that it's due to the unique way that teachers bargain in Alberta. I don't want to go too into the weeds, but there's a multi phase process for teachers to get their working conditions established. So the big ticket items like salary are bargained at a central table with representatives from the governments and the school boards. That's the stage route right now. There's a whole other layer of bargaining that happens later where teachers negotiate with their school boards for things like how much time do they spend on lunch supervision? What about money for continued education and training? Now teachers can and have gone on strike over Those local issues. So the government was worried that these angry teachers who felt wronged would then use that local bargaining as an excuse to go on strike again because of their dissatisfaction with the provincial agreement. So they basically hit four freeze. Not only did the province impose this provincial contract, but now these local contracts. The local portion of their contract is frozen until September 2028. And our finance minister, Nate Horner, just said we have no appetite for further strikes or disruption.

[Jamie Poisson]

Are there people who think that they could have ordered them back to work and not used the notwithstanding clause?

[Janet French]

Absolutely. Labor experts say that that could have happened, that there could have been passed back to work legislation and then demanded that teachers attend binding arbitration or have them go back to mediation with enhanced mediation or something to. To guide them. I mean, I think what they were afraid of was that they would have been roped into binding arbitration and then being told, you can't negotiate class size caps or people to two ratios in that process. I don't think anybody was expecting the imposition of a contract.

[Jamie Poisson]

Daniel Smith is out there making the argument that she had to do this for the sake of the kids. Right. That they've been out of school for three weeks and that they already have missed a ton of school and classroom time during the pandemic.

[Danielle Smith]

We know and feel like this is the right bargaining decision. So I would just hope that people would look at their own personal circumstances and just give an honest assessment of whether they think it's fair. Most of the parents I talk to, they think it's fair. Many of the teachers who've contacted us, I think it's fair. And I think most of all, it's fair to the students who are the ones who are most impacted.

[Jamie Poisson]

Do you have a sense of where Albertans are on this issue right now? Are they on side with her or are they on side with the teachers?

[Janet French]

So there's a recent Angus Reid poll that was done in early October near the first week of the strike is online. It was around 800 Albertans and it suggested 58% of people were sympathetic to the teachers. And about a third of that number was sympathetic to the government in this dispute. The rest didn't take a side or they just didn't know. And it wasn't just NDP supporters. As you know, we have a very like dual party system politics in Alberta right now. UCP and NDP. 28% of UCP voters said that their sympathies were lying with the teachers. And I think it's because parents and grandparents can see with their own eyes what's going in schools. Right. They, they know education workers, they know teachers and they hear the stories about what they're experiencing.

[Jamie Poisson]

That's really interesting to see that number, the 28% among, among her base. Smith has said that what the government has offered has been done all in the face of economic challenges for the provinces. Right. She made this video explaining why they were ordering them back to work.

[Danielle Smith]

Tonight, we want to speak directly to our province's parents and teachers on behalf of your provincial government. We want to share the steps that we've taken today to get students and.

[Jamie Poisson]

Teachers back in the classroom.

[Demetrios Nicolaides]

As global energy prices continue to be lower than forecast and the market continues to be unpredictable, we cannot say whether situation will improve, improve or worsen. However, despite.

[Jamie Poisson]

What do you make of. Of how she's framing that? How is that landing?

[Janet French]

Yeah. And I'd say the finance minister repeated that message during the bill. The very long night we spent in the legislature till two in the morning getting this bill passed through to get it done. And the next day I asked the finance minister and the Education minister why is the education of Alberta children contingent on the price of oil? And. And they denied that. They said oh no, you know, it's international test results are consistently good from Alberta, but this government has many, many revenue levers outside of oil and gas. For example, the renewal energy industry was exploding here a couple of years ago and then the government put in a lot of restrictions that really limited the expansion of that industry and it spooked a lot of investors. And this is a government and a population in Alberta that abhors taxes. So just allergic. And the province gave Albertans an income tax cut last year. So I guess it's a question of balance. Do people want to have the lowest tax environment in the country or do they want robust public services consistently when oil prices are not high? That's something that voters have to decide.

[Jamie Poisson]

You mentioned before the the how how people are were surprised by the imposition of the contract and of course the. The use of the notwithstanding clause. How controversial that is. Nahid Nenshi, the Alberta NDP opposition leader, has vowed that if P becomes premier of Alberta, he would never use it.

[Nahid Nenshi]

When Alberta's New Democrats become the government of Alberta. Inshallah, God willing. As I always say, we will never ever use the notwithstanding clause. And one of our first acts as government will be to introduce legislation restricting the use of that clause for all future Alberta governments. Because we believe in human rights for everyone. We believe in freedom for everyone, not just when it's convenient.

[Jamie Poisson]

Gil McGowan, the head of the Alberta Labor Federation, says that the UCP is, quote, stretching the bounds of our democratic norms by invoking it. And do you think that this is now becoming an issue that people are really willing to rally behind, or do you think that they're also just happy that the kids are back in school?

[Janet French]

I think that's what we're about to find out. Like, obviously, like you mentioned, there's been a lot of anger from other public and private sector unionized workers. The question is, how much momentum does that anger and that sense of grievance have? How long will it last? How, how far are they willing to go when there's penalties and fines potentially hanging over their head for any illegal strike action? I would point out that the government did in fact, not campaign on going to war with teachers during the 2023 election campaign. They campaigned on increasing choice in the education system and beefing up avenues to the skilled trades and opportunities. Earlier on, they campaigned on keeping public spending below inflation plus population growth, which really does make it a problem to get adequate funding into the education system, if that's your policy. Right. And now we're hearing, you know, you heard at the beginning of the show those quotes from Gail McGowan from the Alberta Federation of Labor. You know, he suspected that the government would use the notwithstanding clause, and he promised in advance an unprecedented response. I'm making air quotes from unionized workers, but they're not just like one cohesive group. Right. Each union considers itself a democratic organization, so they'll have to be decisions within each union where they would. Whether they would participate in something like a general strike. Right. And also, some unions just sign deals with the government that they don't want to put at risk. Right. So if a union is getting close to taking a strike vote, maybe they'll happily join the fight, but then other workers might be more afeared of, of penalties. And we talked to a labor lawyer yesterday who said, if you're doing this, if you're trying to stage a general strike, you need to act fast, like, while the public is on side, while the public is angry and it's crushing their minds.

[Jamie Poisson]

So is it fair for me to say that, you know, in, in one scenario, we could see hundreds of thousands of workers join in solidarity here and go on this general strike. And in other scenarios, this could be kind of a much weaker version of that. If, if at all.

[Janet French]

Yeah, it really depends. So, you know, Gilmour Gown was talking about, we're going to get. We got to get 2500-003500-00450,000 workers out at the same time. Right. It's got to be cross sectors. And it only would work if they were able to overwhelm any of the systems of penalty. Right. If it just became administratively impossible to detain or fine or send that many people before the Labor Relations Board to the point where the system is like, we can't deal with this. That's the only scenario in which I think they would do it when they feel like they have enough volume of support that they'd be able to stage something of that magnitude.

[Jamie Poisson]

And I would imagine if something like that were to happen, if they were able to get that kind of momentum, that that would be a massive, massive crisis for the UCP government. Right. And so what are you kind of hearing like, where do you think that this is most likely to go at the moment? And I know that that can be an unfair question to ask people like you sometimes because I'm asking you to kind of do the crystal ball thing, but you know, you're on the ground. Like, what's the vibe?

[Janet French]

I'd say the messaging yesterday was a little confusing from, from the, from the AFL that like, I think a lot, a lot of people were hoping to hear like, yeah, general strike now. But that's an incredibly rare and complicated thing to organize. Right. And involves potentially non unionized workers being on side. So that's not going to happen overnight. And I guess we'll see. I guess I'm still kind of trying to get a sense of how angry the average person is. Does the average citizen care when a certain group's rights are violated? Right. And how much do they care and how much does that mobilize them?

[Jamie Poisson]

Yes. The kind of evergreen criticism of the notwithstanding clause. You should care when it happens to someone else because it might be coming for you down the line. I think that's a good place for us to end this conversation. This is really interesting. Janet, thank you so much for this.

[Janet French]

You're welcome.

[Danielle Smith]

Foreign.

[Jamie Poisson]

That is all for today. Front Burner was produced this week by Joytha Shankupta, Matt Muse, Matthew Amha, Lauren Donnelly, MacKenzie Cameron, Sam McNulty and Dave Modi. Our YouTube producer is John Lee. Our music producer is Joseph Chaveson.

[Janet French]

Our.

[Jamie Poisson]

Our senior producer is Elaine Chao. Our executive producer is Nick McCabe. Locos. And I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening and talk to you next week.

[Janet French]

For more CBC Podcasts, go to CBC CA Podcasts.