Minister defends Canada’s new AI strategy

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: Front Burner – "Minister defends Canada’s new AI strategy"

Host: Jayme Poisson (CBC)
Guest: Evan Solomon, Minister of Artificial Intelligence and Digital Innovation
Date: June 5, 2026
Main Theme:
A feature conversation with Canada’s first Minister of Artificial Intelligence and Digital Innovation, Evan Solomon, exploring the government’s just-released “AI for All” strategy—its promises, its gaps, and the urgent dilemmas at the heart of AI adoption and regulation in Canada.

---

Episode Overview

Host Jayme Poisson sits down for an in-depth discussion with Minister Evan Solomon about the federal government's new national AI strategy, “AI for All.” They tackle the promise of AI in healthcare and the economy, the immense trust and safety concerns raised by recent tragedies, and the challenge of legislating fast enough to keep pace with rapid technological change. The episode features probing questions about the lack of legislative specifics, anxieties over job loss, and the need for concrete protections for privacy and online safety.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Framing the Strategy: “AI for All” (00:59–03:39)

• Minister Solomon lays out three guiding pillars:
  • Trust: Building public confidence through privacy, safety, and data protection.
  • Opportunity: Ensuring broad access and fostering job creation.
  • Sovereignty: Maintaining Canadian control over the development and deployment of AI technologies.

“The foundation principle from the moment I started was we got to make sure everyone’s got access to something that is transformational... and that it’s got to serve all Canadians.” — Evan Solomon (01:31)

• Acknowledgement of public concerns: Fears about job loss, privacy, child safety, and “mass adoption” are central to government thinking.

---

2. Trust and Safety: The Tumblr Ridge Tragedy & Legislative Responses (03:39–10:52)

• Tumblr Ridge mass shooting:
  • The shooter’s use of ChatGPT was flagged by OpenAI pre-incident, but Canadian police were not notified.
  • Highlights urgent questions about AI platform safety thresholds and escalation to authorities.

“What ChatGPT said to the Tumblr Ridge shooter was not made public, but the police were not notified.” — Jayme Poisson (04:33)

• Solomon’s response:

  • “Safety thresholds and how you escalate are completely insufficient, inappropriate and you have to take action.” (05:06)
  • Government doubled funding for the Canadian AI Safety Institute in response.
  • Stresses that meaningful legislation around privacy, deepfakes, and AI transparency is forthcoming—though specifics are not given.

• Enduring tension:

  • Host presses for concrete, proactive safeguards (e.g., forced transparency, risk assessments, safety audits).
  • Minister reiterates that the strategy provides broad commitments; the details will come later in tabled legislation.

---

3. The Elusive Details: When Will Regulation Happen? (10:52–16:34)

• Continued push for specifics:

  • Jayme asks if the forthcoming "Online Harms Act" will directly legislate AI chatbots.
  • Minister Solomon declines to confirm before tabling, but insists:
    "We're seized with making sure that our kids are safe, our privacy safe and our data safe." (10:46)

• On timelines:

  • Acknowledges legislative failure in past attempts; says public demand for safety is higher than before, which may finally move the needle.
  • Urgency recognized, but “You gotta do it right… it is an urgent thing.” (13:45)

Notable Quotes:

“There's two ways to answer it. Politically—‘we are seized with it, it's our responsibility.’ But just the non-political answer is people want this, but you gotta do it right.” — Evan Solomon (13:45)
“These things are happening in a sequence. … This is the plan. And we’re telling you this is what the first step is. And here’s the next step, you know, to opportunity and to assert sovereign control.” — Evan Solomon (14:57)

• Host’s challenge:
  • “I think, you know, many people will struggle with ... a strategy that’s pushing adoption of AI before we’ve got the safety part of it." (14:45)

---

4. Jobs, Opportunity, and AI’s Economic Impact (17:39–28:42)

Government’s plan:

• 90,000 AI-related summer job placements for young people.
• Goal to create 250,000 new jobs through AI adoption by 2034.
• Massive investment in training, literacy (national free AI course for every Canadian), and business supports.

“We are launching a national AI literacy program… every single Canadian has access to a course on AI for free because AI literacy is critical.” — Evan Solomon (19:48)

• Minister’s “pro-worker” framing:
  • Focus on education, skilled trades, ongoing feedback via a new AI & Labor Advisory Council.

Host flags lack of mention of job losses:

• No specifics on social safety net expansion (e.g., EI or UBI) in the strategy.

Minister’s response:

• Acknowledges widespread anxiety but says the current data shows little job loss thus far.

  • “Bank of Canada … said so far, so far they haven't seen any impact on jobless. That doesn't mean there won't be one.” (22:18)

• Asserts that the government’s response is pragmatic, not “cheerleader” nor “pitchfork”:

  • “We are not that. Like, we are going to be pragmatic. That means educating a workforce, getting literacy, investing in Canadian companies…” (23:33)
  • On scenario planning and safety nets: Emphasizes education and innovation supports over broader social income supports.

---

5. The Unknowns (“Gutenberg Moment”) and the Importance of Humility (28:42–31:59)

• Comparison to the printing press (“Gutenberg moment”):

  • “This is a transformational technology. The Internet was a transformational technology, and we lived through that...here we are with another.” (29:53)

• Admits there is uncertainty:

  • The strategy is a “framework” meant to adapt.
  • Ongoing investments in safety, cybersecurity, and trustworthy deployment of AI.
  • Approaches the issue with “humility”—open to adjusting as risks/benefits emerge.

“There is an element of humility here. I mean, this strategy is built to adjust because there’s going to be new opportunities and there’s going to be new challenges..." — Evan Solomon (30:20)

• Host’s closing concern:
  • Are we racing too quickly into AI’s unknown risks? Is Canada ready?

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We need to make sure this technology is used to serve Canadians for the better.”—Evan Solomon (01:36)
• “Your safety thresholds...are completely insufficient, inappropriate and you have to take action.” — Evan Solomon to OpenAI (05:06)
• “We are setting up an AI and labor advisory council. … It's really important that we establish pro worker AI.” (20:37)
• “There are some models saying … no, it's going to create lots of jobs. … There are two kind of camps here: the cheerleader camp … and then there's the pitchfork crowd.” (23:02)
• “But we've got to approach it with humility. No one country can control everything… this is the start of a very important investment.” (31:20)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:59–03:39 – Minister Solomon introduces the AI for All strategy and its three pillars
• 03:39–10:52 – Tumblr Ridge shooting, AI chatbot harms, and the push for safety details
• 10:52–16:34 – Pressing for legislative specifics and timelines; the challenge of urgency vs. process
• 17:39–28:42 – Economic impacts, job creation, and the (lack of) discussion about job displacement and social safety nets
• 28:42–31:59 – Reflection on technological transformation, unpredictability, and the government’s adaptive approach

---

Tone and Takeaways

The conversation is candid but often tense, with the host pressing hard for commitments, specifics, and timelines on safety and regulation, and the minister repeatedly acknowledging concerns but urging patience for the legislative process. There is an underlying tension shared by many listeners: the promises and grand vision of AI adoption feel far more detailed and imminent than concrete protections—and in the background, the risks of tragedy, inequality, and error loom large.

The episode closes on the need for humility, adaptability, and continued public scrutiny as Canada races toward a digital future that is still coming into focus.

---

Transcript

[A]

Protein packed meals in 10 minutes. TikTok's got millions of them. Could you whip one up in under eight? Probably. But hey, it's not a race. Grab the recipes on TikTok and start cooking. This is a CBC podcast.

[B]

Hey everybody, I'm Jamie Poisson. Today a feature conversation with the cabinet minister who I think holds one of the most important jobs in the country right now, Evan Solomon, Canada's first Minister of Artificial Intelligence and Digital Innovation. I have a lot of questions for him about his newly released AI strategy. So let's get straight into it. Minister Solomon, thank you so much for coming onto Front Burner.

[C]

Great to be here, James.

[B]

So to start, in preparation for this interview, I went back and I read some interviews with you from, from last summer when you were newly appointed to this job and you sounded really quite optimistic about this technology. You talk about using it to summarize complex legislation to brief you in podcast form. You talk about being excited about a self driving baby carriage and how you didn't want to quote over index on warnings and regulation. And do you still feel that way now a year on?

[C]

Yeah. First of all, let me just say we're pretty excited to have launched this AI for all strategy. So I just want to frame it because the AI for all is the framing device here. So I just want folks to appreciate what that means because the foundation principle from the moment I started was we got to make sure everyone's got access to something that is transformational and that it's got to be accessible to all Canadians and it's got to serve all Canadians. And we know that this is coming and the foundational values remain exactly the same, which is we need to make sure this technology is used to serve Canadians for the better. And the strategy's got essentially three pillars that I've talked about all year. Trust, opportunity and sovereignty. Sovereign control. So people want to trust it. And you and I are going to talk about this. I mean, people come to me, they probably come to you and say, I'm worried about my job, my privacy, I'm worried about the future. Safety, safety. I mean, people worry about a lot of things and, and then they, there's some people that are super excited about it. You know, I was, you know, with the Prime Minister at the launch date, you know, at Toronto General Hospital just down the street, and they are using AI assistants in surgeries and they're using it to make digital twins of lungs and they made a display at every researcher that they're hiring is using AI to enhance healthcare. So There's a lot of good. So for sure we need to get mass adoption. You know, we need people to use this, but people aren't going to use it and they're not using it. Now we have low levels of adoption if they don't trust it. And there's good reasons. And so the first thing we have to do is protect our kids, protect our data and protect our privacy. And we're going to do that in this strategy. We are going to start with that trust. And, and how do we protect our kids and how do we protect our data and how do we protect our privacy is the key part of step one of this strategy, which is legislation renewing our privacy, legislation which is forthcoming and taking action.

[B]

So I want to really get into that with you because I've read the strategy and there's not a lot of details in that section. So I want to try and get some more out of you today. So, as you know, in February, six children and two adults were shot to death in Tumblr Ridge, British Columbia.

[D]

Police say Jesse Van roetzlaer is responsible for a mass shooting in Tumblr Ridge. Van Roetzilar died from a self inflicted gunshot wound after killing her half brother and mother, followed by six people at a nearby high school in what's being

[C]

described as the country's worst mass school shooting. Nothing I can say will bring your children home.

[B]

The shooter's ChatGPT activity was flagged by OpenAI's safety team months before the attack and the account was banned. Federal ministers leaving a meeting with executives

[D]

from OpenAI say they now have more questions than answers.

[B]

Was there anything troubling that you heard?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

What ChatGPT said to the Tumblr Ridge shooter was not made public, but the police were not notified. And there have been multiple different cases and lawsuits alleging chatbots have enabled or encouraged people to kill themselves, to kill or hurt other people. And why does this strategy not put forward specific safeguards to prevent things like this?

[C]

So first and foremost on Tumblr Ridge, which remains a tragedy, people talk about it like it's in the past. It's not. I'm a father, you know, it is not in the past. These families and there's an ongoing legal case there in that case to remind listeners, you know, that was a case where the alleged shooter in this case had a ChatGPT account and apparently actually the AI flagged that there was a potential danger and the human element there that supposed to escalate, didn't you know? I summoned immediately OpenAI to a meeting and I said, look, your safety thresholds and how you escalate are completely insufficient, inappropriate and you have to take action. And we're the Canadian AI Safety Institute, which we have, which by the way we doubled the funding for in this strategy because safety is so important and we should note that are working on that. Then what do you do about it?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And where are the mechanisms? Right, James?

[C]

Well, the mechanisms are the legislation. And Jamie, this is the key. The strategy says we're going to renew, introduce our privacy legislation and that'll do a couple things. Treat children's information sensitively. It will give citizens, you know, this is what we're looking at. I can't give you exactly what's in the legislation, but it's forthcoming. We're looking at making sure that citizens have power against deep fakes so they have the right to take those down. We're gonna make sure that people's personal information can't be used for things like surveillance, pricing. And then we are also looking closely, my colleague Mark Miller and I in forthcoming legislation on online harms at social media and at AI chatbots. Now, in a strategy like this, you don't list the details of the legislation, but that legislation is forthcoming and that is step one to build the trust.

[B]

So look, when I read this strategy, I did see a lot of details in here, right? Clear adoption of targets. For example, 60% of businesses using AI by 2034, 2.3 billion for training and startups. A plan to take equity stakes and high performing AI companies. Why no details around what that legislation could look like? And I want to put some specific examples on the table here. Why not mechanisms outlined to force companies like ChatGPT to be transparent with your government about what their thresholds for safety and their procedures for reporting disturbing content would be. Why not outline mechanisms to force them to do risk assessments on their products before unleashing them on the public? For example, to try to prevent the chatbot from, as was the case in this Florida school shooting last year, telling a would be school shooter that three dead people was the unofficial bar for widespread media attention. Independent safety audits. Why isn't that coming kind of before even this AI strategy, Right, So that you can build your strategy on a foundation of safety and trust.

[C]

So just on the thresholds for reporting, you know, when do they escalate your, you know, this is exactly what We've asked of OpenAI already. This is what, when I summon their leadership. And Sam Altman, this is why I've got the Canadian AI Institute, Safety Institute, right now engaged in understanding their safety protocols, making sure they've increased their thresholds, making sure that they have contact directly with Canadian law enforcement, making sure they're going back and retroactively looking at other potential flags that they miss. But the strategy is the framework that the legislation is going to fill out. And again, we are very, this is a very detailed, as you know, strategy that gives numbers, but it's one thing to give numbers that we can set in terms of how we are going to invest in small, medium sized businesses, you know, $700 million to give small, medium businesses, Canadian companies access to Canadian compute, the kind of innovation they need. I can say that in a strategy because that's a lever I control. But in legislation, in the forthcoming legislation, the details of that will be tabled in the House as they properly ought to be. They'll be debated at committee. We have been taking extensive consultation to make sure that we've got privacy legislation that I'm going to update with these kind of things in mind. And the safe social media harms that you've talked about in terms of AI chatbots and safe social media, and we are looking extremely closely to get that right and the proper place for the details on that is in legislation and that is forthcoming.

[B]

Are you certain that the Online Harms act is going to tackle legislating AI chatbots?

[C]

I'm not going to give you the details of what's in it until it's tabled.

[B]

Do you not know the answer to that?

[C]

I do know the answer to that because I'm very actively involved in what's coming. But again, it's, we will table this legislation. I mean, I'm not trying to be evasive. You know, you're asking, you know, this is not to be evasive, it's that, you know, we've released an AI strategy, a national strategy Trust is at the forefront. So, you know, I'm here to tell you, and I want to tell Canadians that the legislation on privacy and AI safety, we're looking at all of that. You've probably spoken to Mark Miller, my colleague, we speak every day on this and, you know, you will see the details shortly, exactly how it should come out in a legislation in the House of Commons and there'll be a robust debate, but we are seized with making sure that our kids are safe, our privacy safe and our data safe.

[B]

As the Minister of AI, what would you like to see in that legislation? Like, what would you like to see?

[C]

I like how we're going to just Circle from the front door to the back door. But it's a serious thing.

[B]

Look.

[C]

Yeah, I'll tell you what Canadians are telling us. We did a survey on this. 11,000 Canadians gave us information of what they want to see in the national AI strategy. The largest feedback we've ever had at the Department of Eyesight of Industry on one topic. It was really remarkable. And they said, look, we want to make sure that when companies have our privacy, our data, we know that it's safe. Two, they would like an enforcement mechanism. So if some there's a violation, there's an accountability mechanism. So there'll be enforcement, there'll be accountability. Things like deepfakes. We hear a lot about that. Hey, someone put up a deepfake. I want the right to deletion. Right, the right to have it taken down. So we're looking closely at that and some folks might say, well, what have you done now? Well, we've already tabled legislation on AI during election periods to protect our institutions and our democratic institutions. We've already tabled legislation to criminalize the non consensual sharing of sexualized imagery, including synthetic or, you know, deep fake imagery that should be a criminal offense. We think that's violence against groups, especially frankly, against women. And you're going to see forthcoming legislation on the privacy and the chatbots.

[B]

Would you like to see a ban on chatbots for youth under 16?

[C]

We're looking really closely at age restrictions and we're looking very closely at those, those type of things. And as the legislation rolls out, you know, you'll be able to see the

[B]

details on it and just. I guess this will be my final question in this section where we're just going around and around. But when you say it's coming, when is it coming? Because the Online Harms act, you know, people have been waiting for it for a better part of a decade. Right?

[C]

Yeah. So just. So maybe folks aren't following parliament as closely as you, but. So what's happened in a couple of occasions is government has put forward legislation and tabled it and then it goes to committees and it goes through the process and it actually failed. It's either died on the order paper. So twice the online harms has, has been out there and twice it's failed. The privacy legislation, they've tried to do that and that's failed. So we're going again. We've, we've recalibrated, we're looking closely. It's a different time. Here's the, here's the difference, Jamie. People Want this stuff. I mean, people want to know that their privacy are protected. People want to know that kids are protected. This is not.

[B]

Yeah, it feels urgent. That's why I'm spending time.

[C]

Yeah, no, no, you're right to do it. Look, look, there's two ways to answer it. Let me give you answering as a politician, you know, we're seized with it. We are our. It's our obligation, our responsibility. It is, it's a absolute priority. It is, but just the non political answer is people want this, but you gotta do it right. Like everybody wants. You know, we've seen the harms of social media over the last 25 years and I've raised my kids in it. But you've got to make sure you do it right. And what do I mean by that? You gotta make sure that you're not, for example, you want to give people access. You know, there's kids in rural communities or two SLGBTQ kid that is finding a community online. So you gotta do it right, number one. Number two, you don't want to cut off innovation like in terms of the access to education because we got to educate young people too with this technology. So we got to do it right. But I think we both sense and we both agree that it is an urgent thing.

[B]

Yeah. And I just, I just want to try and harness. What I think, you know, many people will struggle with is that they see a strategy that's pushing adoption of AI before we've got the safety part of it. Right.

[C]

Well, I think the strategy is pretty clear just to articulate exactly what's in there. AI for all the singularly, first thing we're doing is trust. And the base of this is protecting privacy, data and kids. And that legislation will be the first thing that we do. I mean, this is a framework document that is doing a lot of different things. It's absolutely. Adoption's part of it. But we know adoption is not gonna happen without the trust. So, you know, these things are happening in a sequence. Here's the plan. We should be open and transparent about the plan to people. I want people to. This is the plan. And we're telling you this is what the first step is. And here's the next step, you know, to opportunity and to assert sovereign control.

[B]

Okay. I'll just say it is okay. It is the shortest section of the, of the plan, of the strategy. Every other pillar does have quite a bit more detail.

[C]

But hopefully when the legislation comes, you will do like another two hours together.

[B]

I hope that you and Minister Miller will come on together and you can tell me even if AI will be in the online Harms act and then if it is how you will see it's going to be in there.

[C]

You see the legislation forthcoming, by the way, pleasantries aside, you're right to focus on it. It is urgent. We know it. We're ready. This is why we. You know, this is. Your question is not a surprise. We know the sequence here and it is forthcoming.

[E]

Still waiting in line again. That's time you will never get back. Save time and money with stamps.com over 4 million businesses have skipped the line with stamps.com join them to save up to 90% off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail and packages in seconds. Then schedule a pickup right from your home or office for a limited time. Go to stamps.com and use code podcast for a free welcome gift. Taxes and fees apply.

[F]

Imagine you've been charged with a crime and the only witness pointing the finger at you isn't even human.

[B]

I remember thinking, are you serious?

[F]

What is this thing? It's something artificial created by a mysterious Canadian and it's coming for all of us.

[C]

A life defining technology crime as we

[F]

know it will never be the same. I'm like, oh my God, he's lying. From CBC's Uncover the Expert witness.

[A]

Listen ad free on Amazon Music.

[B]

Let's move on to the impacts of AI on the economy and on the labor market. This strategy includes goals to create up to 90,000 AI related jobs for young people to support the creation of 250,000 new jobs through AI adoption. And just explain to me what these jobs are.

[C]

Okay, well there's two different things there. We're going to create 90,000 job placements jobs for young people through Canada Summer jobs. So we're working with our partner EDC and then there's organizations called My Tax, which is a well known organization that does job placement. And what that will do is put young people in job placements. And that kind of has two purposes. Gives them jobs, gives them a salary, gives them experience and it also for the businesses helps them drive the adoption of AI because our small businesses aren't really using it and they need to find that efficiency to stay competitive. That's really important. And, and so we're going to create those jobs according to the oecd, right? If you have sort of levels of adoption of between 40 and 50. At the high levels of adoption, AI in the next five years will create 250,000 jobs. Now let me Just give a base so people think where did that number come from? We already have 150,000 people in Canada working in AI jobs, not AI related jobs in the AI industry. Good jobs, good high paying jobs. Overall the digital economy is about 800,000 people. So this is a job area that's growing. And so we are going to invest to make sure that we create more Canadian jobs, Canadian companies here, entrepreneurs to start companies, companies to buy Canadian technology. So we're trying to buy Canadian and ensure that the jobs stay here. But on the job question, even before you get to the 90,000 and the 250, you need to make sure that our population is educated and we have the skilled workforce. And you saw in the spring economic update we did the 100,000 skilled trade jobs for red sealed workers to get young people in skilled trades. The 90,000 is kind of for the digital economy as well. But we are launching a national AI literacy program. And I think this is really key. It is a big lift. We're going to make sure that every single Canadian has access to a course on AI for free because they, because AI literacy is critical. And then we'll run those through our three AI national institutes and we'll work with the universities and colleges and CEP and there'll be skills training as well involved. We've got to make sure we're investing in a skilled labor force. And to that end I should just say Jamie, because jobs is the big question. We are setting up an AI and labor advisory council. So I met with most of the labor leaders and we've been in contact with them and we will announce soon kind of who's on that. But to meet with me on a regular basis to give me feedback on the jobs because it's really important that we establish pro worker AI.

[B]

Okay. Just to that point it did surprise me a bit to see in this strategy that there wasn't any talk of AI job destruction, just AI job creation, basically what you just laid out and more why?

[C]

Well, we do acknowledge very right off the top, uncandidly there's a lot of concerns about job loss. I mean this strategy is about how do we make sure that we create conditions for job growth and that that doesn't happen. So, so this is real. We're not trying to sugarcoat the fact that people are concerned about job loss. It's in, I think it's in the first page, I think in my ministerial letter. This is a 55 page document. I think that's on page one and on page two. And we have a fair bit of acknowledgment that job fear of job loss is real. That's why a big part of the strategy is literacy education. Like what are the preventions of displacement? Skills training, education, you gotta invest in those. That's a huge part of the strategy. But look, what are the stats right now in Canada on job loss? I will just say that I think in the last 10 days the bank of Canada had a report on that. They said so far, so far they haven't seen any.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Impact on jobless. That doesn't mean there won't be one. We're not saying that that hasn't happened. We have low adoption rates.

[B]

I mean, I was going to say earlier in this conversation you talked about low adoption. I just. Daria Omodi, the head of Anthropic, has warned that AI could eliminate 50% of entry level white collar jobs within years. Jamie Dimon, the CEO of JPMorgan Chase has said that AI will eliminate jobs and that people should stop sticking their heads in the sand. Do you think that the skills training and literacy is enough to combat a 50% elimination potentially of entry level white collar jobs?

[C]

Well, first of all, we are building a strategy where AI is serving Canadian workers. It's a pro worker strategy and that's why we've got to invest in. Now look, I don't know what models that he's using to predict that. Right. But what we're seeing is the first and foremost is AI is going to have impacts. There's, there's some models, just for the record, if we want to pick models, there are some models that are saying, and there's some leaders that say no, it's going to create lots of jobs. So again, you know, I, I kind of think there's two things that we got to be clear eyed about. There are two kind of camps here. There's kind of the cheerleader camp, the team pom poms that they're like AI is going to solve everything. It's going to be great. Everyone's going to have be right the cheerleader and then there's the pitchfork crowd. Stop building data centers. We should stop. We are not that like we are going to be pragmatic. That means educating a workforce, getting literacy, investing in Canadian companies, investing in Canadian innovation, keeping it here, building data centers that the right way, sustainably with Canadian values. And, and we've got to have some control over this. I mean we are not passive here. We have to build here in Canada, regulate here in Canada for Our kids. And we are not passive agents. We have a sense of control over this. And that's good.

[B]

Is being pragmatic. Does that also not require you to plan for all scenarios? So Nick Frost, the co founder of Cohere, an AI company that the Canadian government championship all the time says AI will make inequality worse. He also said that we need to build other social nets for employment. And I just, I don't see anything about improvement to social programs like unemployment insurance in this document. I don't see anything about the development of universal basic income. I actually don't see anything that the government is taking seriously the idea that there could be serious disruption to the labor market.

[C]

So, so let me push back because we just literally had a conversation about launching a national education program, investing in 90,000 jobs for young people. And I just don't want to dismiss

[B]

it, but I'm thinking more like the safety net.

[C]

Yeah, well, I mean education's important. I mean I'm just, I think this is really important. I mean I have two kids. You know, the best insurance that you give your kids is obviously a safe, healthy environment. That's the cornerstone of our strategy. Safe trust. And how do you give them opportunity? You make sure they've got access to the tools they need education and access to the tools. And we're going to give young people access, every post secondary student access to the tool. So we got to make sure that there's not this discrepancy. So on one hand, you know, you don't have the tech haves and the tech have nots and then we've got to give them the opportunity to build and to create and we're investing in workers in this strategy. I mean this idea. You're asking me about a scenario that you've posited.

[B]

I mean not me, no, I know, I know, but some of the smartest, the smartest people, I get it.

[C]

But our foundational goal, our financial belief is we gotta invest in Canadian workers, we gotta invest in Canadian young people, which we're doing. And you see it, there's, you know, there are billions of dollars in this strategy that are investing in Canadian companies. Small, medium sized, 95%, 98% of our companies are small, medium sized companies. We're investing in them. They gotta get access to capital so they can grow and the jobs are here. And just. So I just want people to get this. I mean we're gliding over a lot of big topics here, Jamie. And I know there's a lot, there's a lot in here, but you said cohere. So just like, I'm just going to double click on that for a sec just so folks get it. And maybe they do. But you know, there are only four countries in the world that have these large language models that we're talking about. Now. You mentioned, you know, anthropic and OpenAI. So, you know, the United States has a bunch and China's got a bunch. France has one. The only other country in the world that has one is Canada. It is cohere. They've just done a deal to partner with a smaller German company so they can grow. But that gives us strategic options so Canadians can have control and Canadian control. And you know, we need agency to build this in a responsible, reliable way. And you know, I would just say that, you know, most of our conversation, which is great because this is part of what the strategy is, is about what AI is. What could it be? And. But we should also acknowledge what AI does. I mean, we're literally at a hospital this morning, I spent three hours there and I met dozens of doctors who are doing surgery on cancer surgery. I literally met a team who are using AI to do cancer surgery, to not do significantly less invasive, to find the cancer, to reduce second surgeries. I mean, we should also acknowledge that this is going to serve at its best. That doesn't mean that's all we should focus on. But we've got to be open to the opportunities that this is creating and candid about the concerns which I think this strategy. That's what I mean when I say pragmatic.

[B]

Yeah, I just, I think maybe it's worth flagging. Like I do totally see how AI is going to be really beneficial in areas like cancer research and what you just laid out. I'm not trying to say that it's not useful in lots of ways. I also do want to flag that Ontario's auditor general just put out a report about AI note taking tools intended for Ontario doctors that were hallucinating incorrect information. Hallucinations are like a persistent issue with these tools and there's all these problems. And I just kind of, to end this conversation that we're having today, I do, I wish we had more time, but thank you for being so generous. You know, you have talked about how you think this technology is powerful and transformative and revolutionary. I've seen you before, compare it to the invention of the printing press. And I just, I would posit that if that's true, then we, you and I don't know what it is fully capable of. And do you worry that we're racing so quickly towards the widespread use of this thing that we don't even truly know the consequences of?

[C]

So I have compared it to, like a Gutenberg moment, because it's a transformational technology. The Internet was a transformational technology, and we lived through that. And that was my background, building a company around that. And here we are with another transformative technology. And. And the first point is, you're right. This is our framework for AI for all is a principled approach to how we are approaching this transformative technology. We think first and foremost, you gotta establish your principles and then your action items. And our principles are start with trust and build trust, create opportunity, and make sure that this is good for our sovereignty and our sovereign control. But there is an element of humility here. I mean, this strategy is built to adjust because there's going to be new opportunities and there's going to be new challenges, and there's challenges about security. I mean, we've talked about, you know, Mythos, this powerful technology that, you know, I'm glad to say Canada now has access to through our Canadian Cybersecurity center, which is really important. But it's a. It's a. You know, Canadians are rightly concerned, are these things so powerful that they will break through our security system. So this is why we're working with our Safety Institute and our Cybersecurity center to handle that. But we gotta approach it with humility. No one country can control everything, but we do. But it's not an on, off switch. It's not. Well, if you can't control it, just give up or stop. It's assert control, protect your kids, make sure that there's. You can, as you talked about, make sure we can at least be available for the benefits of this and make sure that, you know, we have a sense of control over how this rolls out. And this strategy is part of that. And as new challenges assert themselves, we will keep working. But this is the start of a very important investment in giving us the tools to build the kind of country with these tools that we want.

[B]

Okay, Minister Solomon, thank you very much for being here.

[C]

Thanks, Jam.

[B]

All right, that is all for today. Front burner was produced this week by matthew almha, joytha shen gupta, mackenzie cameron, kevin sexton, kieran altshorn, kristin de jagger and mitchell stewart. Our YouTube producer is john lee. Our music is by joseph shabazin. Our senior producers are imogen burchard and elaine chow. Our executive producer is nick mccabe. Locos and I'm jamie poisson. Thanks so much for listening. Talk to you next week.

[A]

For more cbc podcasts, go to cbc ca podcasts.