Nick Fuentes and the mainstreaming of neo-Nazism

Summary

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Front Burner — “Nick Fuentes and the Mainstreaming of Neo-Nazism”

Podcast: Front Burner (CBC)
Host: Jamie Poisson
Guests: Ali Breland (The Atlantic), Ben Loreber (Political Research Associates)
Date: November 11, 2025

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Overview

This episode tackles the rise and mainstreaming of the far-right influencer Nick Fuentes, exploring how his openly white supremacist and neo-Nazi ideology is seeping into American conservatism. The discussion delves into Fuentes' rhetorical strategies, his influence on young conservatives, the contentious platforming by figures like Tucker Carlson, generational divides within the right, and the diffusion of his ideas into broader political structures and policies.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Who Is Nick Fuentes? [01:00–05:24]

• Background: Fuentes gained notoriety as a vocal marcher at the 2017 Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, and built a fanbase through his show America First.

• Open Extremism: He has praised Adolf Hitler, espoused white supremacist and anti-Semitic views, and positions himself as a Christian nationalist.

  • Quote: “This is Jesus country. This is not the domain of atheists or devil worshipers or perfidious Jews.” — Nick Fuentes [01:48]

• Connection to Political Violence: Fuentes' rhetoric played a role in radicalizing online communities, some linked to political violence.

• Rhetorical Talent & Parasocial Bonds: As Ali Breland explains, Fuentes is a “very talented... enthralling speaker... very good at connecting his message” to the “material conditions” facing young men, particularly online. [04:21]

2. Fuentes’ Core Beliefs & Mainstream Echoes [05:05–07:10]

• Ideology Summed Up: Ben Loreber distills Fuentes’ worldview as classic white nationalism, Christian authoritarianism, anti-Semitism, and extreme misogyny.

  • Quote: "He really runs the gamut of extreme... views that have become increasingly normalized in the MAGA movement." — Ben Loreber [05:56]

• Replacement and Remigration: Fuentes doesn’t just oppose immigration—he advocates for deporting non-white Americans.

  • Quote: "We don’t need an immigration moratorium. We need to take people out of the country." — Nick Fuentes [05:51]

• Mirroring in the Mainstream: While some Republican leaders like Ted Cruz have disavowed Fuentes as a Nazi, the panel notes troubling overlaps in talking points (e.g., "replacement" theory) between the far right and mainstream conservatives.

3. Tucker Carlson, Platforming, and "MAGA Civil War" [07:10–12:22]

• Carlson's Interview with Fuentes: Carlson gave Fuentes a friendly, largely uncritical platform.

  • Quote: "Thank you for doing this." — Tucker Carlson, to Fuentes [02:20]

• Carlson’s Own Radicalization: Post-FOX, Carlson increasingly hosts extreme voices, even questioning the basic narrative of WWII.

  • Quote: "One can make the argument we should have sided with Hitler and fought Stalin." — Tucker Carlson [08:23]

• Conservative Institutions’ Response: Debate erupted after Kevin Roberts (Heritage Foundation head) defended Carlson’s right to platform Fuentes, reflecting institutional ambivalence.

  • Quote: "Even though he abhors a lot of what Fuentes says, canceling him is not the answer either." — Kevin Roberts [09:41]

• Meaning of the “Civil War”: Ali Breland frames it less as an all-out fight and more as a generational power struggle, with younger conservatives moving the Overton window.

  • Quote: “It’s the equivalent of old man shaking his fist at kids... a visible changing of the guard as to what is permissible and what is okay.” — Ali Breland [11:53]

• Generational Policy Divide: Loreber notes divisions around U.S. policy toward Israel as a flashpoint, with the “new guard” less attached to traditional support, creating space for anti-Semitic conspiracy-mongering. [12:22]

4. The Podcast/Streamer Ecosystem and Rinsing of Fuentes [13:38–16:42]

• Normalizing Extreme Views: Nick Fuentes frequently gets “sanitized” through podcast appearances, receiving more exposure, sometimes under the guise of “balance”. Examples include appearances with popular (but uncritical) influencers, which inject his rhetoric into youth culture.

  • Quote: “It’s shocking to see how often this guy is getting sanitized, like rinsed and repeated just in the ecosystem.” — Jamie Poisson [15:02]

• Platform Resilience: Despite deplatforming, Fuentes and similar figures have built durable audiences through streaming, and as moderation policies relax (notably under Elon Musk at Twitter/X), they've reentered bigger media spaces.

  • Quote: “People like Nick Fuentes have been able to build a larger and larger base, really through independent streaming... He’s able to do his show for three hours a night.” — Ben Loreber [15:14]

5. The Generational Shift, Youth Staffers, and Internalization of Hate [17:12–19:48]

• Evidence of Toxic Culture: Recent leaks detail young Republican leaders joking about Hitler, gas chambers, slavery, etc., and some have direct government roles.

  • Estimate: Rod Dreher (Christian conservative thinker) reportedly claims 30–40% of young conservative staffers engage with racist, Fuentes-adjacent content. [18:47]

• Literature Circulation: Influential racist texts like Bronze Age Pervert are cited as “must reads” among young D.C. conservatives, mainstreaming reactionary ideas.

6. How the Far-Right Youth Define Themselves (and Their Lineage) [19:48–22:37]

• Self-Definition: Young far-right activists position themselves as “Paleoconservatives,” tracing ideological roots to Pat Buchanan, emphasizing nativism and rejecting multicultural/neoconservative ideals.

  • Quote: "He tries to say that that’s why he’s not a White supremacist. He’s operating within this traditional conservatism..." — Ali Breland [20:45]

• Strategic Ambiguity: While openly flirting with Nazi symbols and praising Hitler (including the infamous 2022 “Hitler was cool” tour with Ye/Kanye West), the point is often provocation as well as conviction.

• Deep U.S. Roots: Loreber stresses the fascist and white nationalist strain embedded historically in American culture and politics, not merely borrowed from Europe.

  • Quote: “These... traditions... have deep roots... during the Nazi era. People like... Father Coughlin... they were basically pro-Nazi. And that’s where the very slogan ‘America First’ comes from.” [22:37]

7. Fuentes’ Influence on the Rightward Shift in Policy & Discourse [23:46–27:42]

• Setting the Agenda: Fuentes’ “vanguard” role: regularly latching onto issues far before they go mainstream (e.g., his early interventions at Turning Point USA), only to see his ideas reflected by larger right-wing organizations later.

• Case in Point: The tightening of acceptable identities (e.g., fewer visible LGBTQ people in conservative organizations), adoption of “great replacement” rhetoric, and policy hardening on immigration.

• Echo Chamber Effect: Claims circulate (sometimes exaggerated) of “gripers in every department of the White House,” fueling perception of inevitability and momentum.

  • Quote: “He wants the media to quote this, to project him as all powerful and to give kind of momentum of inevitability... He’s helping to drag the conservative movement rightwards.” — Ben Loreber [27:42]

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Fuentes on White Christian America:
  “This is God’s country... not the domain of atheists or devil worshipers or perfidious Jews.” — Nick Fuentes [01:48]

• Carlson’s Nazi Apologia:
  “One can make the argument we should have sided with Hitler and fought Stalin.” — Tucker Carlson [08:23]

• The Youth Shift, According to Ali Breland:
  “I think it’s going to have a lot of... racist style of far right politics... for years to come.” [12:13]

• On the 'America First' Slogan:
  “That’s where the very slogan ‘America First’ comes from.” — Ben Loreber [22:37]

• Strategic Influence:
  “So sometimes he exaggerates his influence. Like, a month ago, he was bragging, there are gripers in every department of the White House. And that’s probably an exaggeration. But he wants the media to quote this, to project him as all powerful...” — Ben Loreber [27:20]

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Timestamps to Key Segments

• 01:48 — Fuentes openly describing the U.S. as a country reserved for Christians, denigrating Jews
• 02:20 — Tucker Carlson platforms Fuentes
• 05:51 — Fuentes calls for deporting non-whites
• 08:23 — Carlson questions prevailing WWII narrative
• 09:41 — Heritage Foundation defends Carlson’s platforming stance
• 11:53 — Ali Breland explains the generational divide and why this isn't a “civil war”
• 15:14 — Loreber on Fuentes’ streamer and social media power
• 18:47 — Behind-the-scenes evidence of far-right normalization among young Republican staffers
• 22:37 — Ben Loreber on the American roots of fascistic and anti-Semitic politics
• 23:56 — Ali Breland on how Fuentes’ once-marginal ideas set mainstream trends
• 27:20 — Loreber explains Fuentes’ performative exaggeration of his own influence

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Summary

The episode offers an incisive investigation into Nick Fuentes' journey from fringe streamer to influential figure within the American right, dissecting how extremist ideas are increasingly legitimated and mainstreamed. The guests highlight how social media, generational divides, platform policies, and the search for political edge and engagement by mainstream conservatives create a feedback loop that erodes boundaries around white supremacist, anti-Semitic, and authoritarian politics. The conversation ends with an urgent call to recognize these warning signs—not just as isolated phenomena, but as indicators of longer-term threats to policy and democratic culture.

Transcript

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[CBC Host]

This is a CBC podcast.

[Jamie Presson]

Hey everybody, I'm Jamie Presson. If you listen to our episode about the rise of the meme shooter, hyper online people driven to political violence, then you might remember a name that came up a lot in the immediate aftermath of the Charlie Kirk assassination. Nick Fuentes. Fuentes and his followers, Groipers, are working to push American conservatism and the MAGA movement into ease even more dangerous and reactionary territory. He started to gain a following in 2017 after being one of the most vocal marchers at the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia. On his show America First, Fuentes openly praises Adolf Hitler and pushes white supremacist, Christian nationalist and anti Semitic ideas. Just as an example, here's Fuentes two years ago.

[Nick Fuentes]

This is God's country. This is Jesus country. This is not the domain of atheists or devil worshipers or perfidious Jews. This is Christ country.

[Jamie Presson]

Here's another.

[Nick Fuentes]

And ask Carlson about his recent platforming of white nationalist and vehement anti Semite. I'm starting to like it when they call me that. Careful. Careful what you wish for.

[Jamie Presson]

Fuentes and his ideas moved one step closer to the mainstream when he sat down with Tucker Carlson, one of the most prominent right wing talk show hosts in the U.S. nick Fuentes.

[Tucker Carlson]

Thank you for doing this.

[Nick Fuentes]

Yeah, thank you for having me.

[Tucker Carlson]

I wanted to meet you. I've heard about you.

[Nick Fuentes]

I've heard about you.

[Jamie Presson]

But his creep towards the barricades of the American conservative power center is not going unchallenged. Its loudest voices, people like Ted Cruz have called Fuentes a Nazi.

[Tucker Carlson]

I have seen more anti Semitism on.

[Nick Fuentes]

The right than at any time in my lifetime. It is Rising on the right.

[Jamie Presson]

And.

[Nick Fuentes]

And it is dangerous. And if we look away.

[Jamie Presson]

So today we're going to talk about this mainstreaming of white supremacist, anti Semitic and neo Nazi ideals. Ali Breland, staff writer at the Atlantic, is here. He writes about the Internet, tech and politics. So is Ben Loreber, senior research analyst at the social justice think tank Political Research Associates. Ben wrote Safety Through Solidarity, a radical guide to Fighting antisemitism. Hi, Ali. Hi, Ben. How are you? Very good to have you both on the show.

[Ben Loreber]

Hi. Good to be here.

[CBC Host]

Yeah, same. Doing great, thank you.

[Jamie Presson]

So, Ali, I'll start with you, if you don't mind. How did this political streamer that is openly racist?

[Nick Fuentes]

It would be irresponsible if I had a wife and kids to live near black people.

[Jamie Presson]

It just would be misogynistic.

[Nick Fuentes]

I think a lot of men are looking at women and they're. They're very liberal, they're overweight. They have a very high estimation of themselves. I think that people call it hoeflation. Homophobic gay people. And pedophilia is like this. It always has been. Everybody knows that for thousands of years.

[Jamie Presson]

Someone who has praised Adolf Hitler many.

[CBC Host]

Times, and I was like, mom, dad, Hitler was awesome. Hitler was right.

[Nick Fuentes]

He's like, because you said Hitler had aura. It's like, okay, but he did. But he did.

[Jamie Presson]

But he did amass the kind of following and influence that. That he has.

[CBC Host]

The short version is that Nick did this over the course of streaming for years and sort of developing this intense parasocial relationship with his fans. He's. Tucker Carlson has talked about this a lot. They talked about this in an interview. But Nick is, like, very talented. He's like quite an enthralling speaker. And he's also very good at connecting his message of being, like, sort of far right authoritarian and racist to the sort of material conditions of, like, what it's like to be a young person and to deal with, like, tremendous precarity. And so, like, there's much more than that. But, like, these two rough things helped him create this super durable fan base that made him really popular and made people like Tucker Carlson feel like they eventually had to deal with him because he was accruing so many fans who were just so passionate about his message.

[Jamie Presson]

And Ben, I know that I gave some examples there in the intro, but just to kind of ground this conversation, could you tell me a little bit more about the kinds of things that Fuentes has said? How would you kind of sum up his beliefs and why he is so abhorred by many on the left and the right.

[Ben Loreber]

Yeah, well, Nick Fuentes, you know, really comes from kind of a classic white nationalist, you know, worldview. Know, he believes that, you know, white people in America, you know, are rapidly becoming extinct due to non white immigration. And so he wants to end all immigration in order to preserve a white majority in the US we need re migration.

[Nick Fuentes]

We don't need an immigration moratorium. We need to take people out of the country.

[Ben Loreber]

He also is a hardline Christian nationalist. So he wants, you know, fundamentalist, really exclusionary visions of Christianity to be encoded into the law of the land. You know, he doesn't want non Christians, especially Jews, to be able to hold office. You know, he's, he's really, you know, a rabid misogynist. You know, he believes that women should be disenfranchised. You know, he really runs the gamut of extreme, you know, views that have become increasingly normalized, you know, in the MAGA movement. And even while, you know, Republican leaders and MAGA leaders, you know, really hold many of his views now, I mean, it's commonplace, you know, in the gop, you know, or for people like Tucker Carlson, you know, to now say that, you know, that, you know, immigration is, you know, quote unquote, you know, replacing, you know, Americans, you know, they still, they reject, you know, his most radical views, even though, you know, mainstream conservatives, you know, really sound a lot more like him every day.

[Jamie Presson]

I mean, we took another step towards mainstreaming this guy recently, right, when Carlson actually brought him on his show and they had a pretty friendly interview, right. It was largely uncritical, even though he has been critical of Fuentes in the past. And Ben, just tell me more about this conversation that they had and why it set off what some people are calling another MAGA civil war.

[Ben Loreber]

Yeah, well, Tucker Carlson, you know, is one of the most, you know, hardline nationalist and mainstream figures in the MAGA movement. You know, he's railed against, you know, immigration.

[CBC Host]

What is this?

[Tucker Carlson]

It's, I think it's the biggest and darkest thing that has happened in the last thousand years for sure. And I think it's leading somewhere really, really bad. It's not happening by accident. That's obvious because it's only happening in white countries.

[Ben Loreber]

He espouses Christian nationalist views and increasingly anti Semitic views. Since he's left fox news in 2023, I believe he's increasingly radicalized and he's had more and more extreme voices on his show. People who've questioned narratives. War ii.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, it turns Out. I think the story we got about World War II is all wrong. I think that's right. One can make the argument we should have sided with Hitler and fought Stalin.

[Ben Loreber]

You know, and now he's had Nick Fuentes on his show, and really, that is, you know, you know, kind of like rolling out the red carpet, you know, for Nick Fuentes and his followers to really, you know, have a seat at the table of the gop.

[Tucker Carlson]

Where is all of this going in this country? Like, where are we in five years?

[Nick Fuentes]

Not anywhere good. I'm really concerned. And.

[Ben Loreber]

And, you know, it's caused, you know, other institutions like the Heritage foundation, you know, that are really mainstream MAGA institutions, really the bedrock institutions of the conservative movement, you know, to have to wrestle with it. And now mainstream conservatives are saying, is there a place for Nick Fuentes, you know, in the mainstream, you know, in the big tent of our movement? You know, before held him at a distance and they disavowed his views. But now that Tucker Carlson has had him on his show, they really can't avoid that any longer.

[Jamie Presson]

You mentioned the Heritage Foundation. It was the head of the foundation. Right. He came out and he kind of defended Carlson having Fuentes on the show. He said, even though he abhors a lot of what Fuentes says, canceling him.

[Kevin Roberts]

Is not the answer either. When we disagree with a person's thoughts and opinions, we challenge those ideas in debate. And we have seen success in this approach as we continue to dismantle the vile ideas of the left.

[Ben Loreber]

Yes. That's what happened on Thursday.

[Nick Fuentes]

Yeah.

[Ben Loreber]

Kevin Roberts, the head of the Heritage foundation, released a video that really surprised everyone by defending Tucker Carlson. He's since gotten a lot of flack for that, and he's tried to walk it back, but the damage is done.

[Kevin Roberts]

And so let me say loud and clear, the Heritage foundation, which has always not only stood against anti Semitism, and I, if you know anything about my career, have done the same. We will never, ever, ever stop fighting against anti Semitism in all its forms.

[Jamie Presson]

Ali, do you want to say anything more here about that civil war that's brewing and the different sides of it?

[CBC Host]

I do. I wanted to jump on to a point that Ben said, like, in the damage being done in what Kevin Roberts said, even though he tried to walk it back, I think it's a really illustrative moment because even though he's walking back the comment now, after having dealt with backlash from it, he made the calculation and thought that it was okay to do this, like, defense of Tucker Carlson. And say that he didn't want to cancel him because he was conceivable to him from his seat within conservative movement that this would be a thing that other people would defend, too. He was, like, slightly incorrect in this, but I think what he identified that came out in leaked emails that other outlets reported on from Heritage staffers was that there is a growing base at interns within the movement that thought that the interview was fine. And that there also is just this wave of sort of younger staffers within conservatism that think these kinds of things are fine. And depending on who you're talking to, even though there's tremendous backlash now, there's a lot of people that do think that this kind of thing is okay. And so there has been this rhetoric of a quote, unquote, civil war going on. There's headlines from CNN and Wired and other publications that make the case that it is a civil war. But to what Ben was saying earlier, in a way, like, these kinds of things already exist in the mainstream. And I don't really think a civil war is like the correct designation. I think that this is sort of a moment where we are seeing this sort of visible changing of a guard as to what is permissible and what is okay. And people are mad. The old guard is mad that the new guard, like, younger group of kids is like, are passing them up and changing things in a way that they don't like. But it's like the equivalent of old man shaking his fist at kids like they're moving forward. And like, at least for the time being, I think that this is going to have a lot of this sort of racist style of far right politics is going to have a lot of purges for years to come.

[Ben Loreber]

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I would agree with that if I can just add. I mean, please, you know, it's a clash between, like, as Ali said, you know, an old guard of the conservative movement, you know, and a younger, more energetic, more radical base. And this clash is also playing out. A lot of it's playing out around foreign policy and especially Israel. The old guard hews to a more neoconservative way of thinking that the US should strongly support Israel after October 7th. We saw this on full display with Biden and then Trump offering full backing to Israel's annihilatory war in Gaza. But the new guard of the MAGA movement, especially younger conservatives, they're less and less supportive of Israel. They don't want the US to have that active a role in the Middle east or anywhere And Nick Fuentes and people like Tucker Carlson are using this to spread antisemitism. They're saying that Israel controls the US because of the Jewish conspiracy, which is really the anti Semitism at the heart of white nationalism. So this isn't only about more and more extreme and hateful ideas. It's also a policy debate that people like Nick Fuentes are latching onto.

[Jamie Presson]

I totally understand what. What you're saying there, but it's still so shocking to see this guy get platforms kind of over and over again and legitimize. Like, I don't. I remember when the Nelk Boys, these hugely popular podcasters and content creators, had Benjamin Netanyahu on their show, and they were criticized for. I mean, this is an understatement. It was a completely uncritical interview.

[Ben Loreber]

What's your go to at McDonald's? No, I'll tell you. Burger King. We did the, you know, the double, you know, Whopper. Yeah, I haven't ripped Burger King in a long time. Kind of sucks.

[Nick Fuentes]

Yeah, no, the BK Lounge can hit.

[Ben Loreber]

I disagree completely. You like burger king over McDonald's.

[Nick Fuentes]

That's your worst take, I think. Absolutely.

[Jamie Presson]

So. So then they brought on people to give other. Other sides, other views. And they had people like Adam Friedland.

[Ben Loreber]

He's going on podcasts now because this is stock price.

[Darina]

It's.

[Ben Loreber]

They. It's an advantage for them.

[CBC Host]

They're using you guys.

[Nick Fuentes]

They're using you guys to look good.

[Jamie Presson]

Go on to get the other side, the more progressive view that was critical of Israel. But then they brought on Nick Fuentes.

[Nick Fuentes]

They see this as like a push by Netanyahu for public relations. He's going to come on your show to try to get all the young conservative frat guys, you know, all the masculine men, the manosphere types, streaming types, to get back in the pocket of Israel. And I think.

[Jamie Presson]

And it is. It's shocking to see how often this guy is getting kind of sanitized, like rinsed and repeated just in the ecosystem. If either of you guys want to pick up on that.

[Ben Loreber]

You know, I would say people like Nick Fuentes have been able to build a larger and larger base, really, through independent streaming. I mean, he's had his show for years. He's built up a loyal fan base. You know, for many years, he was deplatformed from, you know, Twitter, Twitter Now X and YouTube. But, you know, as social media companies, you have relaxed those regulations, especially with, you know, Elon Musk at the helm of Twitter Now X. You know, he's been Let back on. You know, he. He's able to do his show for three hours a night. You know, I think it speaks to the power of streamers like Nick Fuentes to build that, you know, fan base, you know, to be able to offer, you know, political comment, you know, commentary and market themselves as edg, as the most canceled man in America, as he likes to say, and really to beat out competitors and get more eyes on his show. And then slowly but surely, he's being let back on to these larger platforms, especially as he's really piggybacked on rising Gen Z dissatisfaction with US support for Israel to spread these anti Semitic conspiracy theories in a climate where the MAGA movement and young conservatives are primed even for conspiracy theory thinking.

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[Jamie Presson]

Ali, I think it was you who mentioned earlier why I think you guys have both touched on how this is generational. And it reminds me of that political piece put out last month where group texts were leaked and there was a number of leaders of young Republican groups and they were using slurs like the N word. They joked about Hitler and gas chambers and slavery and rape. Really, the list goes on. It was disgusting. And some of these people are working in government or in the party right now. One is a state senator. And how widespread or ingrained do you think this kind of stuff is right now?

[CBC Host]

I think that I want to be very clear on the front and say, like, we don't. I don't think that there are great answers as to, like what with certainty as to what the full extent of it is. But we can look to a couple things. Paul and Gracia has connections to Fuentes. His text messages were also leaked. He said that he, quote, unquote, had a Nazi streak, amongst other very similar far right, racist, anti Semitic perspectives. He's the White House liaison to the dhs. He was appointed for a position in the White House. He was going to be up for confirmation for a higher profile position. But when those texts came out that Fell back. But like there's those kinds of things that we clearly know. And then there is this sort of. They're not just rumors. There's like people that have talked about the degree to which this runs through. Like youth staffers. I think it was Rod Dreher, the prominent Christian conservative, said that someone who quote unquote is in a position to know estimates that 30 to 40% of young staffers in Washington D.C. engage with like Fuentes groiper slash like really racist content and like are, are for it. Obviously that's just like one guy. But then another prominent young Republican, Nathan Hockman had this line. He is fairly connected within the D.C. youth conservative circles about how his line was that Bronze Age pervert who is not an ally of Fuentes but is racist and really like misogynistic and anti Semitic in a different way. Also was a book that was read by every young staffer in the Trump White House. And so like there's all of these things that come out that don't seem like they're off base, that this is sort of just in the water that young staffers and young members of the right are engaging with all the time.

[Jamie Presson]

How would these young people define themselves? Like, I listen to Fuentes, not a, not a lot, but I look at some of the stuff that he says and I think this is clearly Nazi stuff. This is neo Nazi stuff. But would they and would Fuentes define themselves as Nazis?

[CBC Host]

I think that they would call themselves Paleo conservatives. So like Nick is a really big. I'm actually very curious to hear what Ben's take is on this. But what I'll say briefly is that Nick is a very big fan of this tradition of conservatism from like that goes back the 80s and further with Patrick Buchanan, who is this candidate. And like Patrick Buchanan ran on this version of conservatism that rejects foreign intervention, is laced with anti Semitism, is laced with this sort of nativist brand of racism, and is a rejection of like this Bush era conservatism that was like pro multicultural and wanted to use the American military to defend democracy around the world.

[Patrick Buchanan]

We must not trade in our sovereignty for a cushioned seat at the head table of anybody's New World Order. Today we call for a new patriotism where Americans begin to put the needs of Americans first, for a new nationalism.

[CBC Host]

Like, you can argue out the sort of like intentions of that, but it sees itself as a distinct break from that. And he tries to say that that's why he's not a White supremacist. He's operating within this traditional conservatism that has like, existed for a long time. The counter to that is that a lot of people, when Buchanan was prominent, were comparing him to David Duke and saying that he is just David Duke in a suit and he's much more polite and savvy, but that he shares the politics of like the kkk.

[Ben Loreber]

No, I think that's right on. I mean, I would say that, you know, Nick Fuentes has flirted with neo Nazis and, you know, he said things like Hitler was cool in 2022. You know, he did a big tour with, you know, Ye the Artist formerly known as Kanye west, where they were both praising Hitler, the Holocaust.

[Reporter]

Denying podcaster Fuentes arriving at Mar a Lago as a guest of rapper Ye west, describing their dinner with Mr. Trump in this since deleted Twitter video.

[Ben Loreber]

So Trump is really impressed with Nick Fuentes.

[Reporter]

In a series of social media posts, Mr. Trump denied knowing Fuentes and said he used the dinner to advise west to stay out of politics.

[Ben Loreber]

And I think, you know, people like Fuentes, you know, do this as much, you know, for shock value, you know, as, you know, you know, a genuine and kind of admiration for Hitler and his policies, which I think he does have. But I think, you know, we don't even have to look to Europe, you know, to, to understand the kind of, you know, fascism that Nick espouses. You know, as Ali was saying, you know, these, these, you know, traditions of, of hardline white supremacy and Christian nationalism. They have, you know, deep roots not only in the American founding, but, you know, during the Nazi era. People like, like Ford, you know, or Father Coughlin, the most popular, one of the most popular radio commentators of the 1930s, you know, they were, they were basically, you know, pro Nazi. And that's where the, the very slogan America first comes from.

[Jamie Presson]

Then remember that you're an American first.

[Ben Loreber]

So these kind of fascist and fascist adjacent traditions have deep roots in, in the US and that's what Nick Fuentes draws from. And I think, you know, it's not only the story of Nick Fuentes and his, his personal influence, it's an entire generation of young conservatives. Years have been in a steadily radicalizing media ecosystem. And it's all fueled, of course, by Trumpism from the very top. The increasing encroachment of authoritarianism into government policy, the impacts of which we see in the streets of our cities, like the one that I'm in, in Chicago, where ICE is rounding up my neighbors every day. So Nick Fuentes is really part of a larger movement of authoritarianism, you know, on the right that's impossible to deny.

[Jamie Presson]

Allie, do you want to come in here and talk a bit more about how you see this far rightward lurch being reflected in policies?

[CBC Host]

I think that, yeah, so the natural question that flows out of Fuentes ascension and sort of thrust into the mainstream is what this actually means on a policy and cultural level. What happens next? And I think that the way to understand the answer to that question is to look at what Nick's influence has been prior when he was still operating on the margins. And so what I personally think is the case from having observed him and then the wider sort of far right movement for a while, is that Nick will engage and start to dabble in rhetoric that is like very far right and very nativist years before it becomes okay. And I think that you can debate as to how much influence he actually has or like how much is emanating from him, but I think that he provides a guide as to where things are going amongst the vanguard of the right and amongst his sort of youth vanguard. So like in 2000, around 2020, 2019, during Nick's like really early days when he was doing the quote unquote griper wars where he was like encouraging his very ded loyal fan base to not just watch him on his streams, but to go to real life events and harass Charlie Kirk at Turning Point USA events and harass Don Jr. And to try to get them in an effort to get them to adopt for the right positions. At the time, Charlie, Don Jr. Dan Crenshaw all like really rejected this. They were like, this is not okay. These guys suck. Like they're, they're a nuisance. And Charlie held that position until he died. But Charlie also was really engaging with the far right ideas that Nick espoused years after the fact. So like at the time, Charlie Kirk was more of like a free market multiculturalism, like not pro lgbtq, but like also was open about having LGBTQ people at Turning Point usa invisible positions you flash forward to like years later, just before his death. There's not a formal policy on gay people within Turning Point, but like there's not really any visible people there anymore. Charlie Kirk has started to engage in this pro white rhetoric. He is engaged in this sort of economic populism that Nick was like talking about years prior. And so like, I think that as Nick grows in influence, like we'll see his kind of ideas having more and more purchase years to come if they're not sufficiently Combated. So, like, this virulent anti Semitism that you see now that is already growing, like, just looks way, way worse in two more years if there is no check to this.

[Jamie Presson]

Ben, do you want to add anything there?

[Ben Loreber]

Yeah, I mean, I would agree. You know, we saw people like, you know, Charlie Kirk, you know, for years. You know, in 2019, you know, he was talking about, you know, immigration, legal and otherwise, you know, maybe being a positive in some ways. You know, but, you know, before long, he started using great replacement rhetoric. You know, he started saying, there's a war on white people in the U.S. he started saying, you know, I'm a Christian nationalist, right? And so did Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Taylor Greene. And every time, it was people like Nick Fuentes who were saying, you know, we won. We are pushing the envelope. And, you know, so I agree. I see him as, you know, seeding, you know, ideas, right? You know, seating discourse and using the media to turn out enough conservative students to events to kind of create viral spectacles and to create the perception that America first is inevitable, to quote his movement slogan. So sometimes he exaggerates his influence. Like, a month ago, he was bragging, there are gripers in every department of the White House. And that's probably an exaggeration. But he wants the media to quote this, to project him as all powerful and to give kind of momentum of inevitability. And I do see him as, you know, kind of a tugboat. You know, he's helping to drag the conservative movement rightwards. And he's not the only one. Right. He's also riding the wave. But, you know, he is an influential figure there.

[Jamie Presson]

I think that's a good place for us to end today. Ben Ali, this was really interesting. Thank you so much for this.

[CBC Host]

Yeah, thank you. I really appreciate it.

[Jamie Presson]

Yeah.

[Ben Loreber]

Thanks for having us on.

[Jamie Presson]

All right, that is all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening. Talk to you tomorrow.

[CBC Host]

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