Front Burner — "The (former) PM and the pop star"
Podcast: Front Burner (CBC)
Episode Date: November 12, 2025
Host: Jayme Poisson
Guests: Susan Delacourt (Toronto Star political journalist), Gil Troy (historian, McGill University)
Episode Overview
This episode explores the surprising and headline-grabbing romance between former Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and American pop star Katy Perry—examining what it reveals about the post-political lives of leaders. Host Jayme Poisson, with guests Susan Delacourt and Gil Troy, look at how Canadian and American leaders transition into civilian life, wrestling with fame, legacy, privacy, and reinvention.
1. Setting the Scene: Trudeau and Perry's Romance
Key Points:
- Media spectacle: Trudeau and Perry caught by paparazzi—dinners in Montreal, yacht photos in California, hand-in-hand in Paris.
- National reaction: The pair's relationship felt "absurd" and unexpected for a Canadian ex-PM.
- Episode’s focus: Lustrous attention to the "second acts" of political leaders and societal expectations post-office.
Notable Quote:
“I promise this episode isn’t just tabloid stuff, but we are talking about former Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s budding romance with an American pop star, Katy Perry… The whole thing is kind of absurd, frankly, and not the kind of post-politics life we are necessarily used to in this country.” — Jayme Poisson (01:00)
2. Celebrity and the Burden of Public Life
A. The Public Invades
- Historic parallels: Gil references William Jennings Bryan—public invasion is the price of political celebrity.
- New level of scrutiny: Social media has magnified the lack of privacy far beyond previous generations.
Notable Quote:
“When you go to that level of celebrity… the public invades your life… You become part of this group, and sometimes… all the celebrities are aliens. They share a certain kind of understanding of what it is to… potentially be a moment that will go viral.” — Gil Troy (03:28)
B. Trudeau and Living With Fame
- Susan describes Trudeau as always balancing celebrity and politics; early fame often worked in his favor but grew wearisome by the end.
Notable Quotes:
“He was already a celebrity before he was Prime Minister, people thought that they knew him, and that played in his favor for a long time.” — Susan Delacourt (05:12)
“I did actually talk to him after the date with Katy Perry… he said nothing in his life had prepared him for the paparazzi that was surrounding that. This was a level he’d never seen and he’s seen a lot.” — Susan Delacourt (06:26)
3. The Canadian Approach to Post-Political Life
A. Life After PM: Dignity and Modesty
- Former prime ministers often live quietly; sightings of ex-PMs doing everyday tasks are common in Ottawa neighborhoods.
- Post-political celebrity is less lucrative and institutionalized in Canada than in the US—no state-funded offices, mostly pensions and occasional speaking gigs.
- Some, like Jean Chrétien, joke that the real money only comes after leaving office.
Notable Quotes:
“In Canada, modest Canada—I’m sure our public prefers this—when you leave as prime minister, that's it, you leave with your pension and it’s a good pension, but you don’t leave with an office.” — Susan Delacourt (13:10)
4. Comparing the US Experience
A. Barack Obama & the Addictive Nature of Celebrity
- Obama started as an outsider but quickly became a generational political and cultural star, learning to harness his celebrity both during and after his presidency.
- Their post-White House life has been lucrative (book and media deals) and influential (cultural and political).
- There are clear differences in how post-political influence is wielded compared to Canada.
Notable Quotes:
“There is something addictive about the power. There is something addictive about the celebrity...There’s also something addictive about the money.” — Gil Troy (11:07)
“I would say certainly during his presidency and in the post presidency, he’s leaned into it.” — Gil Troy (10:36)
B. Institutions and Legacy-building in the US
- US ex-presidents get lifelong support: funded offices, staff, libraries, and opportunities for legacy-building through foundations and memoirs.
- Notable US examples:
- Clinton & Obama: massive book deals, Netflix/biographical projects.
- Jimmy Carter: humanitarian legacy, Nobel laureate.
- George W. Bush: painter, generally avoids politicking.
5. Political Afterlives: Influence, Statesmanship, and Reinvention
A. Visibility and Lingering Power
- Obama’s quiet but significant influence over the Democratic Party.
- Trudeau’s current lack of political clout in Canada versus Obama’s ongoing popularity in the US.
Notable Quotes:
“Obama both as soon as he left office and today remains a pretty popular figure nationally… Trudeau, I think not so much right at the moment.” — Jayme Poisson (16:10)
“He will be more of a celebrity abroad than he will be here in Canada for quite some time.” — Susan Delacourt (17:19)
B. The Club of Ex-Leaders
- Occasional collaboration (and commiseration) among former leaders.
- Harper and Trudeau discussed post-leadership visibility at a recent event (20:00).
“It was Harper giving a bit of advice to Trudeau on how to stay low key.” — Susan Delacourt (20:38)
6. Notable Contrasts and Legacy Management
A. Canadian PMs: Returning to Old Lives
- Most revert to previous occupations or personalities: lawyers, businesspeople, or low-key retirements.
- Few attempts at grand reinvention; exception was Paul Martin’s post-political philanthropy.
B. US Presidents: Brand-building and Activism
- Tendency to monumentalize and monetize legacy—foundations, libraries, advocacy, global visibility.
- Carter’s post-presidency as a case study in legacy eclipsing time in office (24:15–27:27).
Notable Quote:
“You have to kind of say… Even in your 50s and 60s, you can pivot and you can overcome blows and you can make something about the rest of your life.” — Gil Troy (27:17)
7. Reflections on Comebacks, Limits, and Norms
- Complacency with comebacks: Most modern PMs and US Presidents step away entirely after leaving office due to exhaustion, public fatigue, or democratic norms.
- The two-term presidential tradition (a la George Washington) praised as a stabilizing democratic principle.
Notable Quotes:
“By the time prime ministers leave office… the public just gets tired.” — Susan Delacourt (34:04)
“The presidency and the American public chew you up and spit you out… But that power of the two-term tradition is something that I think is really important because, in democracies… you need to have some limits.” — Gil Troy (34:50, 35:50)
8. The Last Trudeau: Pierre Elliott’s Reclusive Legacy
- Pierre Elliott Trudeau retreated from the limelight, appearing only rarely and at decisive moments (e.g., Meech Lake Accord opposition).
- Played a game of “peekaboo” with his public, influencing legacy in a sharply different way than his son.
“He did go to a law firm… Then, much to Brian Mulroney’s frustration, Pierre Trudeau made a famous speech… after the Meech Lake Accord was signed, trashing it and galvanizing the opposition to it.” — Susan Delacourt (31:21)
9. Closing Thoughts
- Both Canadian and US leaders’ post-political lives reflect national culture and democratic values: modesty, limits, and legacy.
- The rise of celebrity, money, and media in politics creates new pressures and opportunities for ex-leaders on both sides of the border.
Key Timestamps
- 01:00 — Episode setup, Trudeau-Perry romance, introduction of guests.
- 03:00–06:45 — Celebrity, privacy invasions, the difficulty of leaving the spotlight.
- 09:07–12:33 — Obama’s celebrity, power, and the addictive nature of both.
- 13:10–14:27 — Canadian PMs: modest pensions, lack of infrastructure in retirement.
- 16:10–18:32 — Comparison: Trudeau’s diminished vs. Obama’s enduring post-office political power.
- 20:00–22:35 — Harper’s lower-key path, anecdotes about ex-PM lifestyles.
- 24:15–27:27 — Jimmy Carter’s reinvention; the potential for post-office legacy to eclipse time in power.
- 31:21–33:09 — Pierre Elliott Trudeau’s selective public interventions post-retirement.
- 34:04–36:00 — On why comebacks are rare, the exhaustion and democratic traditions that shape exits.
Memorable Quotes
- “I did not have Katy Perry on my Justin Trudeau bingo card.” — Susan Delacourt (03:00)
- “Nothing in his life had prepared him for the paparazzi.” — Susan Delacourt (06:26)
- “There’s something addictive about the power… about the celebrity… and about the money.” — Gil Troy (11:07)
- “In Canada, modest Canada… when you leave as prime minister, that’s it.” — Susan Delacourt (13:10)
- “He will be more of a celebrity abroad than he will be here in Canada for quite some time.” — Susan Delacourt (17:19)
- “Even in your 50s and 60s, you can pivot… and make something about the rest of your life.” — Gil Troy (27:17)
Episode Tone & Style
The conversation is informed and lively, often wry, balancing the absurd headline of a Trudeau-Perry romance with serious reflections on fame, history, and public life. Both guests bring anecdotes and deep context, with the host steering the discussion thoughtfully between Canadian modesty and American showmanship post-politics.