Front Burner (CBC)

Episode: "Trump, and the alarm bells of fascism"

Date: October 3, 2025

Host: Jayme Poisson
Guest: Dr. Timothy Snyder, historian, author, and professor at University of Toronto’s Munk School of Global Affairs

Overview

In this urgent episode, Jayme Poisson welcomes historian Timothy Snyder back to Front Burner to dissect recent events in Donald Trump’s second administration. Snyder, renowned for works such as On Tyranny, illuminates how these events intersect with historic fascist strategies, particularly the subversion of democratic institutions, scapegoating, and the normalization of political violence. Using recent examples—the military’s new deployments, ICE’s ramped-up operations, and the prosecution of political enemies—Snyder connects the dots, warning Canadians and Americans alike about the precipitous decline of democratic norms and the tangible signs of authoritarianism on their doorstep.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Military as a Tool for "Regime Change"

• Trump and Defense Secretary Hegseth’s Gathering of Top Military Officials
  • [03:21] Trump and Hegseth convened military brass, discussing domestic priorities, including eradicating "woke" influences and using US cities as military training grounds.
  • Trump (03:39): “I told Pete we should use some of these dangerous cities as training grounds for our military... military.”
  • Analysis by Snyder (04:22):
    • Gathering all senior military leaders in one place was strategically reckless.
    • The rhetoric signaled that Trump and Hegseth see the military’s ultimate purpose as suppressing domestic opposition, amounting to "regime change" from within:

      “What we are facing is the realization that these two men believe that our armed forces should be fundamentally used in order to carry out regime change inside the United States. That is evil. But it’s also complicated.” — Timothy Snyder [05:47]

    • "They imagine a kind of easy cinematic transition...We become a fascist regime...The world is not like that. There'll be conflicts within the armed forces and without." — Snyder [06:55]
• Concerns About Military Fracture
  • Diversity of Armed Forces: The institution represents American diversity, not the "us vs. them" visions of Trump and Hegseth. Officers swear to the Constitution, not individuals.
  • Potential Fractures (08:41):
    • Orders to turn the military against Americans would likely split the ranks:

      “If you press this entire institution to do a thing that it wasn’t designed to do, what you can expect are fractures of some kind.” — Snyder [11:19]

2. Historical Rationalizations and Their Dangers

• Invoking History to Justify Domestic Military Use
  • Trump’s References [13:20]: Names historical presidents as precedents for domestic military intervention.
  • Snyder’s Rebuttal [13:46]:
    • Washington modeled restraint by relinquishing power and establishing boundaries.
    • Civil War should not be seen as a sign of institutional strength, but a warning about fragility:

      “The Civil War…ought not to be remembered as an example of the robustness of the system. It’s rather to be remembered as an example of the flaws in the United States.” — Snyder [14:22]

3. Rhetoric, Scapegoating, and Manufactured Enemies

• Presidential Memo on “Left-Wing Terrorism”
  • Trump's memo creates the specter of a "radical left wing domestic terror network," blaming organized, paid conspirators for unrest.
  • Reaction to high-profile violent incidents is used to justify government crackdowns, despite lack of evidence of coordinated leftwing terrorism.
  • Snyder (17:08):
    • Warns of simulating a conspiracy to justify criminalizing dissent, reminiscent of tactics used by Stalin and Hitler:

    “He’s using an individual fact to conjure up something that doesn’t exist—a conspiracy. And…the problem with that is…you can use it to prosecute anybody. You can use it to prosecute thought crime.” — Snyder [18:33]

  • The approach provokes unrest and then shifts blame to the supposed conspirators—a “passive-aggressive” government strategy.

4. Escalating ICE Actions and Normalization of Cruelty

• Recent ICE Conduct
  • Reports of masked, armed ICE agents abducting people from streets in unmarked cars; video of aggressive arrest at NY courthouses ([20:02], [20:56]).
  • Snyder draws comparisons to early Nazi SS actions targeting non-citizens as rehearsal for widespread state violence:

    “Using people who are not citizens as a kind of preparation for larger scale violence is a known practice... [It] is a certain sort of preparation for, for citizens.” — Snyder [22:55]

  • Politics of Cruelty:
    • These actions “advertise” a new political order rooted in cruelty and dehumanization ([21:24]).
  • Agents Wearing Masks ([23:06]):
    • Officially explained as protection, but Snyder argues masks are about evading accountability and enabling abuse.

    “I do not believe that the reason they're doing [this] is for their own safety...If they're not going to bear individual responsibility, then they're being permitted...to do things.” — Snyder [24:17]

5. Prosecution of Political Enemies

• Comey Indictment
  • Trump’s Justice Department prosecutes former FBI Director James Comey, widely believed to be baseless ([24:51]).
  • Trump's public insistence on targeting opponents for prosecution, regardless of evidence.
  • Snyder’s Analysis (26:02):
    • Turning prosecution into a tool for personal vendetta negates the rule of law:

    “The moment you say that the rule of law is for an executive to prosecute personal enemies, then you are saying that the rule of law shouldn’t really exist... what you prefer to have is a kind of personalistic dictatorship.” — Snyder [26:17]

  • The Power of "Big Lies":
    • Trump’s lies require prosecutions to retroactively “prove” his false claims, further corroding legal systems.

6. Are the Alarm Bells Coming True?

• Rate and Extent of Breakdown
  • Snyder reflects on his earlier warnings and current pace of democratic decay ([29:26]):

    "We have an unprecedented sort of elected official at the level of president who believes in certain things that are fascistic, like a politics of violence, a politics of threat... big lies." — Snyder [29:42]

  • Administration appointments, militarization, and political prosecutions point toward a designed fracturing of the system.
  • Pockets of popular resistance exist; the outcome remains unpredictable.

    “We could make a turn for the better. But ultimately the turn for the better is going to depend upon…society beyond the Trump administration.” — Snyder [31:33]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "What we are facing is the realization that these two men believe that our armed forces should be fundamentally used in order to carry out regime change inside the United States. That is evil."
  — Timothy Snyder, [05:47]

• “If you press this entire institution [the military] to do a thing that it wasn’t designed to do, what you can expect are fractures of some kind.”
  — Timothy Snyder, [11:19]

• “He’s using an individual fact to conjure up something that doesn’t exist—a conspiracy. And…the problem with that is…you can use it to prosecute anybody. You can use it to prosecute thought crime.”
  — Timothy Snyder, [18:33]

• “These public displays are advertisements for a politics of cruelty. ...using people who are not citizens as a kind of preparation for larger scale violence is a known practice.”
  — Timothy Snyder, [21:31], [22:55]

• “The moment you say that the rule of law is for an executive to prosecute personal enemies, then you are saying that the rule of law shouldn’t really exist… what you prefer to have is a kind of personalistic dictatorship.”
  — Timothy Snyder, [26:17]

• “We’re in a zone where a lot of things are unpredictable. And the most important unpredictable thing is how many people choose to coalesce... Damage has already been done. It can’t all be undone. But we could make a turn for the better."
  — Timothy Snyder, [31:22]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:21]—Discussion of military summoned for domestic priorities
• [05:47]—Snyder: Regime change and the military
• [11:19]—Consequences of ordering military to police Americans
• [13:44]—Trump references historical military action; Snyder’s historical correction
• [15:51]—Presidential memo on left-wing conspiracies
• [18:33]—Dangers of using conspiracy scapegoats
• [20:02]—ICE violence against immigrants
• [21:24]—Normalization and celebration of cruelty
• [23:06]—Use and meaning of masks on ICE agents
• [24:51]—Comey indicted, Trump’s public vendetta
• [26:17]—Rule of law vs. personalistic dictatorship
• [29:40]—Is the breakdown happening faster than expected?
• [31:22]—Possibilities for resistance and societal turn

Conclusion

This episode is a sobering examination of the multiple and reinforcing dangers to democracy currently manifesting in the United States under Trump’s second presidency. Through historical context and close reading of current events, Timothy Snyder warns that the alarm bells of fascism aren't hypothetical—they are ringing now. Yet he also points to points of resilience and the unpredictable potential for effective resistance that could shape an uncertain future.