Trump & corruption with Pod Save America

Summary

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Front Burner: Trump & Corruption with Pod Save America

Host: Jamie Poisson (CBC)
Guest: Tommy Vietor (Pod Save America, Pod Save the World)
Date: December 22, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Jamie Poisson welcomes Tommy Vietor to unravel the pervasive corruption and self-enrichment alleged to characterize Donald Trump’s second term as U.S. President. Focusing on examples involving Trump’s family, inner circle, and political allies, the discussion dives into the blurring of public power and private profit, from real estate and crypto ventures to foreign deals and the controversial use of presidential pardons. Vietor and Poisson also explore why such blatant corruption elicits limited outrage and discuss the long-term consequences for democracy and global security.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump Organization’s Global Business Expansion

• Reality vs. Promises: Despite promises that Trump would disengage from company management and avoid foreign government contracts, the organization, now run by his sons, pursued aggressive international deals. (02:19)
• International Deals Example:
  • Serbia: A $500 million Trump Tower project was derailed after a Serbian minister was indicted for corruption, with Kushner allegedly required to install a monument condemning NATO.

    “This deal required Kushner to put up a monument condemning NATO aggression in the 90s… It’s just an astounding example.” — Tommy Vietor (04:31)

  • Vietnam: Trump Org broke ground on a $1.5 billion golf complex, fast-tracked by government favors and resident displacement, in apparent quid pro quo for U.S. tariff leniency.

    “Vietnamese officials were going door to door to get residents to let Trump build… even digging up cemeteries.” — Tommy Vietor (05:10)

  • Indonesia: Trump’s son Eric was personally connected to foreign leaders seeking business deals. (06:24)

2. Jared Kushner and Affinity Partners: Blending Business with Statecraft

• Sovereign Wealth Windfall: Kushner secured $2 billion from Saudi’s Public Investment Fund and billions more from other Gulf states for his private equity firm after leaving office, despite a lackluster investment record. (07:18)
• Conflict of Interest:

  “It looks like a kickback for, you know, services rendered in the first term.” — Tommy Vietor (08:19)

• Active Diplomatic Role: Kushner continues to negotiate on peace deals, such as in Gaza and Ukraine, in tandem with his business ventures, raising the specter of personal gain influencing foreign policy. (09:16)

3. Trump's Crypto Empire

• Staggering Profits: Trump family reportedly made $800 million from crypto in the first half of 2025, compared to $62 million from real estate. (09:46)
• From Opposition to Advocacy: Initially anti-crypto, Trump became a staunch supporter after major donors from the crypto industry backed him and suggested direct investment opportunities. (10:41)
• Crypto-Policy Nexus:

  “The Financial Times calculated that the Trump family’s crypto business has made them over $1 billion in pre tax crypto profits in 2025.” — Tommy Vietor (11:18)

• Stablecoin and AI Tech Connection: Trump's stablecoin USD1, launched with UAE/Emirati backing, facilitated massive investments and, soon after, the U.S. approved AI chip sales to the UAE—suggesting direct policy-payoff links. (12:06)
• Notable Quote:

  “Several billion. That’s peanuts for these guys.” — Donald Trump (12:02)

4. Other Blatant Self-Enrichment Deals

• Qatar’s Plane Gift: Qatar gifted Trump a $400 million plane, which the U.S. will refurbish with $1 billion in public funds, with plans for Trump to keep it in his presidential library post-term. (13:30)

  “That is a big shocking example.” — Tommy Vietor (13:57)

• White House Ballroom Renovation: A $300–400 million project privately funded by corporate and wealthy donors, potentially providing another channel for buying influence. (14:50)

  “It just seems like another avenue where big businesses or rich individuals can cut Donald Trump a check and curry favor with him.” — Tommy Vietor (15:00)

5. Pardons for Profit and Political Favors

• Political Corruption via Pardons: Trump’s pardons of figures like the former president of Honduras (convicted of massive drug trafficking) and Binance’s “cz” (despite terrorist finance charges) are described as transactional. (16:23)

  “None of this really tracks with a law and order presidency… they are tied into Trump getting paid, people around Trump getting paid, or donor interests.” — Tommy Vietor (17:27)

6. Cronyism in Trump’s Administration

• Questionable Appointments: Loyalists without relevant experience—like Fox News anchor Pete Hegseth (Secretary of Defense) and ex-podcaster Kash Patel (FBI Director)—raise concerns about accountability and oversight. (18:44)
• Dismantling Oversight Mechanisms: Key anti-corruption and enforcement initiatives (e.g., Kleptocracy Asset Recovery, Foreign Influence Task Force) are disbanded, leaving few checks on self-enrichment. (19:56)

  “It is really troubling… they’ve just sort of given up on white collar crime.” — Tommy Vietor (20:37)

7. Why Isn’t There More Outrage?

• Complexity Fatigue: The sheer volume and complexity of the scandals overwhelm even informed citizens and watchdogs.

  “Even if I tried to… explain MGX is an Emirati fund and they did an investment to Binance… people are just lost.” — Tommy Vietor (22:07)

• Systemic Cynicism: Public perceives systemic corruption as endemic to U.S. politics, blunting outrage despite Trump’s excesses.

  “Unfortunately, I think people feel like our system is so awash with money and broken, that Trump is like just kind of doing what they all do and not an aberration.” — Tommy Vietor (23:56)

8. Long-Term Consequences

• National Security Risks:
  • Example: Trump administration’s approval of Nvidia AI chip sales to China, potentially undermining U.S. strategic advantage, is tied to donor influence. (24:24)

    “These corrupt dealings are going to lead to the United States facilitating the Chinese… And there is no national security explanation for this.” — Tommy Vietor (24:47)

• Democratic Integrity in Jeopardy: The normalization of bribery, self-dealing, and lack of transparency erode institutional checks and global trust.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “The corruption is sort of a feature, not a bug.” — Tommy Vietor (02:56)
• “There's just example after example like this… the corruption is just completely baked in to everything Trump seems to do around the world.” — Tommy Vietor (06:30)
• “It looks like a kickback for… services rendered in the first term.” — Tommy Vietor (08:19)
• “Several billion. That’s peanuts for these guys.” — Donald Trump (12:02)
• “It just seems like another avenue where big businesses or rich individuals can cut Donald Trump a check and curry favor with him.” — Tommy Vietor (15:00)
• “None of this really tracks with a law and order presidency… a lot of these pardons seem like they are tied into Trump getting paid, people around Trump getting paid, or… donor interests.” — Tommy Vietor (17:27)
• “They've just sort of seemingly given up on white collar crime.” — Tommy Vietor (20:37)
• “Even if I tried to… explain [these deals], people are just lost. Like, what are you talking about?” — Tommy Vietor (22:07)
• “Trump is… an order of magnitude worse than anyone that came before him. But they're not wrong that our system is just broken.” — Tommy Vietor (23:57)
• “Corrupt dealings are going to lead to the United States facilitating the Chinese… there is no national security explanation for this decision.” — Tommy Vietor (24:47)
• [Closing candor on US–Canada relations and the 51st state joke]

  “I’m sorry our president is such an asshole to your country, in particular… The majority of the country… loves Canada and would never are bothered by what's happening.” — Tommy Vietor (26:12)

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Timestamps for Highlights

• [02:19] – Trump Organization foreign deals: Serbia and Vietnam
• [04:31] – Kushner and the Serbia/NATO monument deal
• [07:18] – Kushner’s Affinity Partners and Gulf sovereign wealth funds
• [10:41] – Trump’s crypto reversal and boom
• [13:30] – Qatar’s $400M plane gift
• [14:50] – The $300–400M ballroom renovation
• [16:23] – Pardons: Honduras ex-president, Binance CEO
• [18:44] – Cabinet picks: loyalty over experience
• [19:56] – Disbanding anti-corruption units
• [22:07] – Why the public outrage is muted
• [24:24] – Dealings with China and AI chips, as a corruption case study
• [26:12] – Tommy’s message to Canadian listeners

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Conclusion

This episode provides a detailed, candid, and deeply critical account of Trump-era corruption, focusing on the intricate ways personal profit, policy, and power are enmeshed in his presidency. Vietor's insights and examples illustrate a systemic problem amplified by Trump, resulting in erosion of democratic norms, compromised national security, and widespread public mistrust. The episode is a clarion call to scrutinize how political power and private gain intersect—and a warning about the lasting impact on both American and global institutions.

Transcript

[Tommy Vitor]

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[Jamie]

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[Tommy Vitor]

This is a CBC podcast.

[Jamie]

Hey everybody, it's Jamie. Corruption. That is a word that's come up throughout this year in relation to Donald Trump's second term. Allegations of personal enrichment in the hundreds of millions through his family's crypto and real estate ventures. Accusations of quid pro quo deals with foreign leaders and convicted criminals seeking pardons. The blurred lines between public policy and private profit. Is it a bug in this administration or a feature to put all of this in focus, Tommy Vitor is here. He's been following this issue of corruption on his very popular podcast, Pod Save America. He also co hosts Pod Save the World. Today we'll go through examples of how Trump, his family, his inner circle and political allies have been using the power of the Oval Office for personal gain and the wider consequences of, in Tommy's words, corruption. So brazen. It's all getting lost. Tommy, thanks so much for coming onto the show. It's really great to have you.

[Tommy Vitor]

Jamie, thank you so much for having me. It's fun to be here.

[Jamie]

So I want to start by digging into some of the ways that Donald Trump, his family and his inner circle have directly enriched themselves this past year. And maybe let's start with the Trump Organization, a real estate company founded by Trump's father and now run by his sons. At the beginning of the year, the company said that the president won't be involved with the day to day management of the company and that the company won't enter into new contracts with foreign governments during his presidency. But the Wall Street Journal came out with a report this summer detailing how that didn't happen. So how has it actually worked in practice?

[Tommy Vitor]

I mean, what seems like is happening is Donald Trump's kids, Donald Trump Jr. Or Eric Trump, just kind of follow him around the world and they cut deals to build, you know, golf resorts or hotels or Trump towers with various countries. And with that, another Trump golf course is opened here in Scotland. That was one of the key reasons that President Trump was traveling Here, mixing the family business with. With the office of the presidency. The world's most talked about name is now in Dubai. Welcome to the first and only Trump International Hotel and Tower in the Middle east designed to dominate. And they do so in the context of the US Slapping tariffs on basically every country in the world, including, like, uninhabited islands filled with sheep in various places. So it seems like they're very much launching, you know, new deals. And, you know, the corruption is sort of a feature, not a bug.

[Jamie]

And just if I could put two examples, maybe to you. There was this plan to build, like, a $500 million Trump Tower in Belgrade that was actually derailed because a Serbian minister was indicted and accused of using their position to get the deal through. The company. Company did manage to break ground earlier this year on a $1.5 billion golf resort in Vietnam, which had permits that normally would have taken years for approval. And just when you hear these examples, when you see these examples, what do they say to you?

[Tommy Vitor]

Yeah, so the. The Serbia example is incredible. This was a deal that Jared Kushner was trying to push through that he actually, I think, announced he was abandoning earlier this week. It involved an attempt to lease the buildings and property that used to house the former Yugoslavian Ministry of Defense that was bombed by NATO in 1999.

[Donald Trump]

It was like apocalypse. This place is soaked with the history of Serbian military, and it means a lot to me because I work there. Me, personally, I will stand in front of excavator, and I will protect the building with my body.

[Tommy Vitor]

And according to a bunch of reports, this deal required Kushner to put up a monument condemning NATO aggression in the 90s. And remember, NATO was bombing this military base because of ethnic cleansing. So that's just an astounding example of, you know, the Trump family being willing to cut a deal with this sort of right wing, corrupt Serbian government that included an explicit monument condemning NATO. And it sort of tells you everything you need to know about the US Relationship with NATO at this point. And then, you know, you mentioned this Vietnam deal. The New York Times had a great report on what the Trump family is trying to do in Vietnam. My understanding is it includes, like, a $1.5 billion golf complex outside of Hanoi and then a skyscraper in Ho Chi Minh City. And the Times reported that Vietnamese government officials were basically going door to door to get residents, to a degree, to let Trump build a new golf course on their property. That would require digging up cemeteries where, like, generations of their family members have been laid to rest, digging up farmland, residents were told they would get half the value of their land. These officials were more than willing to ignore their own laws and just give the Trump family favors that no one else gets because they wanted to manage the pressure from the Trump administration of a, at that point, a threatened 30% tariff on the country. And it's just like there's just example after example like this. Like, I don't know if you remember when Trump, after the Gaza cease fire was inked, he went to Egypt. There was this big peace summit event in Sharm El Sheikh, Egypt. At that event, Prabowo Subianto, the president of Indonesia, was overheard on a hot mic asking Donald Trump to connect him with his son Eric. And he said, I'll have Eric call. Should I do that? He's such a good boy. I'll have Eric call. There was something about, like, looking for a better place. Presumably this was about a golf course or a resort or something, but, like, the corruption is just completely baked in to everything Trump seems to do around the world.

[Jamie]

You mentioned Kushner, his son in law, and I just feel like he is a really good, interesting example of, like, the confluence of business interests and foreign policy colliding. Right. And of course, he has this private equity firm, Affinity Partners, that he started in 2021 that's backed by all these sovereign wealth funds in Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates and Qatar and like, beyond that, Serbia project. Like, talk to me a little bit more about Kushner and affinity now. He's, like, brokering peace deals with Gaza and Ukraine and also doing this stuff.

[Tommy Vitor]

So Jared Kushner, in the first Trump term, kind of appointed himself the shadow Secretary of State. He worked out of the White House. He and Ivanka and Jared just decided he, like, thought foreign policy was fun and interesting and he would put himself in charge of a bunch of things. He left the administration and he started this investment firm, Affinity Partners, and got like a $2 billion check from the Saudis, I think, right out of the gate, and then huge checks from the Emiratis and the Qataris from their sovereign wealth funds. And I think his assets under management at this point is pretty close to about $5 billion. And nearly all of that money is from these various sovereign wealth funds. So I think you have to wonder, you know, what investment expertise was he bringing to bear? I mean, there's a report in the Times, I believe that other top Saudi officials on their sovereign wealth fund had real reservations about giving that much money to Jared Kushner because he had no proven track record Crown Prince Mohammed bin.

[Donald Trump]

Salman overruled a host of objections from.

[Tommy Vitor]

The sovereign wealth fund's advisors. The private equity firm was found to be, quote, unsatisfactory in all aspects. The kingdom would be taking on the bulk of the investment and the risk. There was a seemingly excessive asset management fee and public relations risks due to Kushner's involvement. But Mohammed bin Salman, the crown prince, kind of rammed it through and it just, it looks like a kickback for, you know, services rendered in the first term. And so now, you know, Jared is again, not in government, but he is kind of playing this weird, you know, hybrid negotiator role along with Steve Witkoff, where they fly around the world, negotiate on behalf of the United States with the Israelis or Hamas or most trouble to me, they are kind of carving up Ukraine with this guy who is the head of Russia's sovereign wealth fund.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Tommy Vitor]

And it just feels like, you know, that is the kind of thing that look, to me it seems like Vladimir Putin sees them as marks. He said, all right, I'm the semisover wealth fund guy, the guy with the money to try to negotiate this, you know, so called peace deal with Ukraine and also kind of dangle some deals in front of Kushner and Woff.

[Jamie]

Whatever deals have been made around real estate and through these companies. They have also been kind of like dwarfed by the earnings from their crypto ventures. Right, yeah. Reuters reported in October that in just the first half of the year, the Trump family made 800 million from crypto versus 62 million from their real estate and licensing ventures. That's from things like World Liberty Financial, the company, and stablecoin run by Eric and Don Jr. And Steve Witkoff's son Zach. And then these meme coins like Trump and Melania digital trading cards, I guess the list goes on. Right. And how has this approach to crypto, crypto from a policy standpoint, help boost the Trump's family ventures? Because, you know, when, when Trump came on as president, he was, he said he was going to make the US the crypto capital of the world. And he went on to enact a bunch of crypto pretty crypto friendly policies.

[Tommy Vitor]

No, you're right. I mean, look, but recall, like Trump in his first term did not like crypto. He condemned it. And then he left office. And then what seems like happened was a bunch of really rich crypto guys started a super pac and they went to Donald Trump and they said, we will spend hundreds of millions of dollars electing you and other Republicans. And also some people Pitched him on starting his own crypto ventures and it's made him fabulously wealthy.

[Donald Trump]

This afternoon I'm laying out my plan to ensure that the United States will be the crypto capital of the planet and the bitcoin superpower of the world. And we'll get it done.

[Tommy Vitor]

We. The Financial Times calculated that the Trump family's crypto business has made them over $1 billion in pre tax crypto profits in 2025. And remember, that is only realized gains. So that's like money that is in their pocket from fees or trading or whatever does not include the unrealized value of the holdings of like the Trump meme coin, for example. If you calculated that it would be billions more.

[Donald Trump]

Well, I don't know if it benefited. I don't know where it is. I don't know much about it other than I launched it. I, it was very successful. I haven't checked it. Where is it today?

[Tommy Vitor]

You made a lot of money, sir.

[Donald Trump]

How much?

[Tommy Vitor]

Several billion dollars, it seems like in the last several days.

[Donald Trump]

Several billion. That's peanuts for these guys.

[Tommy Vitor]

And again, this is happening as Trump is also regulating the industry or in reality kind of giving up on regulating the industry and giving up on enforcing fines or other penalties on companies that break the law. And you know, you're right, like you kind of get lost in the just volume or the many different ways this corruption is happening. But I mean, I think, you know, the most shocking example to me was this Emirati backed investment fund called MGX made a $2 billion investment into a crypto company called Binance. And they did it using Trump's stablecoin which is called USD1. For those who don't know, a stable coin is just a, it's a, it's a cryptocurrency pegged to a value like so $1 basically. And that reportedly will earn the Trump family about $80 million per year in interest payments. And it instantly vaulted USD 1 to being one of the biggest stablecoins in circulation. And then a few weeks later, the United States agreed to sell the UAE really, really advanced artificial intelligence chips, which just feels like this is, those are the deals that are getting made.

[Jamie]

You know, I want to move on to pardons, but before we do, in this era of like very transactional deal making, are there other examples of kind of blatant attempts by Trump to line his pockets or benefit greatly while participating in diplomacy that you might like to talk about? Yeah, I mean, I know, like, I don't know.

[Tommy Vitor]

Yeah, I mean, you know, Qatar Just gifted him a $400 million plane. That's a weird one.

[Donald Trump]

If we can get a 747 as a contribution to our Defense Department to use during a couple of years while they're building the other ones, I think that was a very nice gesture. Now, I could be a stupid person to say, oh, no, we don't want a free plane. We give free things that. We'll take one, too, and it helps.

[Tommy Vitor]

And I think the US government is going to spend up to $1 billion refurbishing it to make it kind of compatible or suitable to actually serve as Air Force One, given the security requirements and communications needs. And then Trump says he's going to donate the plane to his own presidential library, so he's just going to keep it afterwards. So that is a big shocking example.

[Jamie]

Do you plan to use the plane after you leave office?

[Donald Trump]

No, I don't know. It would. It would go directly to the library after. After I leave office. I wouldn't. I wouldn't be using it now.

[Jamie]

And just. We've been talking about kind of foreign government transactions, but like the ballroom renovation, I wonder if I get your thoughts on that. Right, because that's been controversial for several reasons, but also because it has this $300 million price tag that's being funded by donations from corporations and wealthy individuals, including American companies. Right. And so why would that be a problem?

[Tommy Vitor]

Yeah, it just seems like. So they, they ripped down the East Wing, which is where the First Lady's office was, and they're putting up this ballroom. The price tag was initially 300 million, I think. I saw an article the other day that it might be up to 400 million. They're not funding the construction with taxpayer dollars. It is private funds. But you're right. I mean, it just seems like another avenue where big businesses or rich individuals can cut Donald Trump a check and curry favor with him. And there's very little disclosure. There's no transparency. Like, we don't know how these deals are getting done. And it's just like the latest avenue for corruption. And I think the challenge for, like, everybody is just kind of keeping up with the many different ways you can buy this family off. At this point.

[Jamie]

Add a little curiosity into your routine with TED Talks Daily, the podcast that brings you a new TED Talk every weekday. In less than 15 minutes a day, you'll go beyond the headlines and learn about the big ideas shaping your. Your future. Coming up, how AI will change the way we communicate, how to be a better leader and more. Listen to TED Talks daily. Wherever you get your podcasts. You have said, let's do pardons. You have said that Trump's use of pardons are normalizing political corruption. And I just wonder if you could elaborate on that for me and maybe if there are any examples that you find particularly illustrative.

[Tommy Vitor]

There's no explaining some of his biggest pardons on the merits. So a couple examples. So he recently pardoned the former president of Honduras, one Orlando Hernandez. This is an individual who's convicted of conspiring to traffic, I think, 400 tons of cocaine into the United States. So we're pardoning this guy as Donald Trump's has the US Military blowing up all these boats off the coast of Venezuela ostensibly to fight drug traffickers. Like that just makes no sense. We're letting the kingpin connected guy out of jail and killing the low level guys. There was a pardon of a crypto magnet billionaire named cz.

[Donald Trump]

He was somebody that, as I was told, I don't know him, I don't believe I've ever met him. But I've been told by a lot of support, he had a lot of support. And they said that what he did is not even a crime. It wasn't a crime that he was persecuted by the Biden administration. And so I gave him a partner at the request of a lot of very good people.

[Tommy Vitor]

His company is a company called Binance. That company pleaded guilty to knowingly facilitating payments to terrorist groups like Hamas, Hezbollah, Palestinian Islamic Jihad. The IRGC cuts force. And again, Binance was the other half of that deal. We just talked about where the Emirati back fund used the Trump stablecoin. Right. So clearly they're doing favors for Trump. So none of this really tracks with a law and order presidency. And a lot of these pardons seem like they are tied into Trump getting paid, people around Trump getting paid, or, you know, sort of like donor interests.

[Jamie]

I want to ask you about, you know, some of the people around him in his administration. There's no shortage of commentary about who Trump has chosen to effectively run the country. People who might be expected, you know, in normal circumstances to investigate or prosecute corruption or to take seriously their roles as independent arbiters. And I'm thinking about some of his cabinet picks. Pam Bomdy, Pete Hegseth, Cash Patel, Kristi Noem. They've been described as inexperienced, incompetent in some cases. And so what's your take on this? Like, is this a strategy on his part, appointing people who kind of like, owe him, owe him something?

[Tommy Vitor]

Yeah, I Mean, I think, like, there's just no, again, like, Pete Hegseth was a weekend anchor on Fox News. He has no qualifications to be the Secretary of Defense beyond being kind of looking the part, in Trump's view, and being completely loyal to Donald Trump and owing his entire career to the Trump administration and thus like sort of pledging fealty. Cash Patel, the FBI director, is the same. I mean, he was a, he was a podcaster before, before being named FBI director. I don't think you or I are qualified, Jamie, to be FBI director.

[Jamie]

Well, it sounds like you could.

[Tommy Vitor]

Yeah. Who knew? I know. Like, I guess I got to reach for the stars. I was kind of like, aiming low. The FBI normally is a. Is a job that you are appointed to for 10 years. It's pretty nonpartisan. Like Brock. You know, honestly, it's. Almost all of the FBI directors in the US have been Republicans or conservative. It's a very conservative organization. Right. It's like a lot of, like, white guys in law enforcement that, you know, care about law and order. Cash Patel is not qualified in any way. He screwed up a bunch of stuff, but again, he's loyal to Trump. Pam Bondi is similar. Like, she's not seen as one of the, you know, brightest legal minds in our country, but again, they're all just like, they will do what Trump says.

[Jamie]

And like, Pam Bondi has disbanded the Kleptocracy Asset Recovery Initiative and the task force Klepto Capture, which were created to enforce Western sanctions against Russia. The administration has dissolved the FBI's Foreign Influence Task Force, dismantled the Cryptocurrency Enforcement Unit announced it would stop enforcing the Corporate Transparency act, which was designed to stop illegal corporate financial activities. Like, what's left? I guess, what institutions or levers remain? I say this kind of unseriously. Like, obviously there's still some levers that remain, but that, like, could be, you know, a series of checks and balances here.

[Tommy Vitor]

No, you're right. I mean, it's like Pam Bonnie went and like, started ringing a dinner bell, you know, to call in all the, you know, foreign spies and corrupt autocrats to come to D.C. and kind of grease their favorite officials. It is really troubling. Like, it is. They've just sort of seemingly given up on white collar crime. We have a very distributed kind of legal system, right? There's, there's state based charges, there's U.S. attorneys. Like, there's career people within the Department of Justice or US Law enforcement or the FBI. They can still, like, follow leads, bring cases like, are there for the right reasons. But it's really, really hard when the leadership from the top are making these big picture decisions that kind of signals to the workforce, like, you know, don't go after the people Trump likes or else you could be fired.

[Jamie]

Look, there is this overarching irony here. Trump was elected because people saw him, or initially at least, as this kind of anti establishment guy, right? A disruptor, someone who represented a break from these career politicians whose agendas are set by like a privileged 1%. And if this is such a blatant display of nepotism, of cronyism bordering on. I think a lot of people would say kleptocracy. Like, where is the outrage? I, I just would love to hear your thoughts on that.

[Tommy Vitor]

Yeah, I mean, you're right on your sort of analysis of the, the political mood music that got us here. I mean, I think people felt like Washington was not delivering for them. They were frustrated. They kind of just wanted to burn the whole thing down. You know, that was kind of a sentiment in 2016. And, you know, because of, for a lot of reasons, the pandemic, inflation, et cetera, by 2024, they were, they were angry all over again. And Trump was seen as the disruptor, the person who would come in. At least they, at least Trump hated the people they hated too. You know, the career politicians, the media, the establishment. I think there is some outrage. I mean, there's outrage among Democrats, Right? But there is just this challenge that we've been talking through today of following this stuff, like, like informing people of what's happening, because it's complicated. Like, like, you know, even if I tried to, like, sit down to your average kind of swing voter or someone that, you know, checks into politics, like maybe the month before the election and try to explain, you know, MGX is an Emirati fund and they did an investment to Binance and they use the stablecoin. Like, you're just. People are just lost. Like, what are you talking about?

[Jamie]

You get that vibe with like one of those boards with all the strings that are like.

[Tommy Vitor]

Exactly. There's a lot of red string. But there have been a couple of seminal moments that I think broke through, like Qatar gifting Trump a plane, that one broke through. Tearing down the East Wing. That one broke through. So Trump's numbers are at a record low. I mean, there's an AP poll the other day that had him at 36%. His approval on the economy was at 31%. Like, people, Americans feel like he is focused on the wrong Things and not delivering from for them. To your answer the question of why isn't there more outrageous? Unfortunately, I think people feel like our system is so awash with money and broken, that Trump is like just kind of doing what they all do and not an aberration.

[Jamie]

Well, yeah. Do they have a point?

[Tommy Vitor]

Yeah, they have a point that our, the U.S. political system and the amount of money that we spend, it's insane and it is ripe for corruption and it is not serving anyone well and we need to fix it. I think Trump is, you know, an order of magnitude worse than anyone that came before him. But they're not wrong that our system is just broken.

[Jamie]

What are the consequences of what we have been describing today, long term?

[Tommy Vitor]

Let me give you one example. So the United States and every other country really is in this race mostly against China to see who can achieve AGI or get the most advanced artificial intelligence over the next several years. The United States has been winning that race almost solely because we have the most computer chips. Most of them are made by this company, Nvidia, and that's what you use to sort of like train these AI models or use them to, you know, to run the models out of nowhere. The other day, Donald Trump decided to allow Nvidia to sell highly advanced trips to China. Not their, like top of the line chip, but like the best of the last generation. And it was completely inexplicable. And what a lot of people think is happening here is the CEO of Nvidia is one of those people you mentioned earlier who is funding the ballroom construction, who is making big donations to, you know, entities that Trump supports and God knows what else. Right. Like, we don't really know who is buying several million dollars worth of Trump coin or, you know, whatever it might be. And so in the long run, like these corrupt dealings are going to lead to the United States facilitating the Chinese in helping their efforts to catch up to us in this AI computing race. And there is no national security explanation for this decision. No one can justify it. But it's going to be hard to stop it because Trump has so much discretion as president. And that's just like a, a very concrete example, I think, of how corruption and double dealing in the administration is harming US national security and also I think, harming people around the world for Canada as well.

[Jamie]

Okay, I think that's probably a good place for us to leave it. Tommy, thank you so much for this. It was really great to have you on.

[Tommy Vitor]

Thank you for being here. And also, I'm sorry our president is such an asshole to your country, in particular. The whole, like, 51st state thing, it was not funny. It went on way too long. I'm glad you sort of stopped talking about it. But I want you guys to know that, like, the majority of the country down here finds it absurd and insulting and, like, it loves Canada and would never are bothered by what's happening. And I just hope you guys know that.

[Jamie]

We appreciate that very much. Thank you. Thank you.

[Tommy Vitor]

Thank you.

[Jamie]

All right, the that's all for today. Thanks so much for listening. Talk to you tomorrow.

[Tommy Vitor]

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