Front Burner (CBC)

Episode: What exactly is Antifa?
Date: October 8, 2025
Host: Jayme Poisson
Guest: Mark Bray, historian and author of "Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook"

Episode Overview

This episode explores the origins, structure, tactics, and political controversies surrounding Antifa, the loosely organized antifascist movement. Host Jayme Poisson interviews Mark Bray, an academic and historian who has studied antifascist movements internationally. Together, they examine what Antifa is (and isn’t), how it responds to the far right, why it rejects relying on institutions, its strategies, and the implications of recent moves to designate it as a terrorist organization.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What is Antifa?

• Decentralized and Amorphous Movement (03:33–04:58)
  • Bray emphasizes Antifa is not a formal organization, but a label for a broad anti-fascist practice:
    • “Antifa is a kind of politics... It's sort of something that you do and maybe you call yourself that or you don't. In that sense, I kind of compare it to, for example, feminism: there are feminist groups, but feminism is not a group... There are antifa groups, but Antifa itself is not a group.” (Mark Bray, 03:46)
  • Most radicals at protests are not necessarily Antifa, despite political attempts to conflate all street activism under this label.

2. Antifa’s Distrust of the State and Institutions

• Historical Perspective and Strategic Rationale (05:31–07:46)
  • Post-WWII, the mainstream left argued banning fascist groups legally or relying on the state.
  • Bray: “We can't simply count on the state, we can't count on the police, we can't count on the courts, and we can't count on the supposed free market of ideas... That means that when fascists come to our city to attack people, we are going to put our bodies between fascists and the people they want to attack.” (06:13)
  • The antifascist logic is preventative, shaped by history: democracy alone may not prevent fascist ascension.

3. Tactics and Strategies

• Pragmatic, Multi-Level Approaches (07:49–10:42)
  • Examples include:
    • Venue pressure: urge event spaces to cancel far-right speakers.
    • Public demonstration and counter-mobilization.
    • Deplatforming—showing up first to occupy spaces.
    • Doxxing: exposing identities of white supremacists; success of this depends on wider societal rejection of far-right views.
    • Physical confrontation: “really the kind of last resort when those other efforts fail.” (Mark Bray, 09:35)
  • “It’s often much more effective and safer to try and stop, for example, a Nazi event by contacting the venue owner, encouraging them to cancel the event...” (Mark Bray, 07:53)

4. Why Portland?

• Symbolism and Ground Reality (11:00–13:39)
  • Oldest U.S. Antifa group—Rose City Antifa—is in Portland, giving it a high profile.
  • Portland’s longstanding history of white supremacist and anarchist activity sets a volatile context.
  • Trump’s rhetoric often conflates all protest with Antifa to justify crackdowns.
    • “Trump has talked about Portland being a city under siege... That just isn't happening. ...I’ve seen some journalists speculate ...he’s being shown AI videos of the supposed antifa burning down the city.” (Mark Bray, 12:30)

5. Charlottesville and Street-Level Confrontation

• Case Study: Unite the Right Rally, 2017 (13:53–17:09)
  • Antifa’s visible presence in resisting white supremacist groups.
  • “Part of the argument made by militant antifascists historically is you don't let the far right normalize themselves in society either through their discourse or through their organizing or through their public presence...” (Mark Bray, 16:43)
  • Activist Cornel West credited Antifa for saving protesters’ lives at Charlottesville.

6. The Terror Designation and its Implications

• Political Weaponization and Legal Complexity (17:09–21:08)
  • Trump recently signed an executive order to designate Antifa a terror group, using sweeping language (“antifa-aligned actors”).
  • Bray explains there is no legal mechanism in the US to designate domestic groups as terrorist organizations—designation is symbolic but dangerous.
  • “The end game here is to make it so that resistance is equated with terrorism.” (Mark Bray, 21:06)

7. Debating Free Speech and Violence

• Response to Free Speech Critiques (24:05–26:58)
  • Antifa isn’t advocating state censorship; it’s a matter of community standards and defense:
    • “Antifascists are not the government. They’re not appealing to the government to change speech laws... Speech is limited in so many different ways already, in ways that most of us would sympathize with.” (Mark Bray, 24:37)
  • Historical failures to stop early fascist groups.
• Response to Violence Critique (27:46–30:06)
  • Bray: Historically, passivity by left-wing groups let fascism rise.
    • “You treat every group of 54 people as if they could be the nucleus of a new Nazi regime. That does not mean that the most effective way to oppose them is necessarily violence. But antifascists argue that basically you treat them as such and you try to nip the threat in the bud before it grows.” (Mark Bray, 28:26)

8. The State of Antifa and the Far Right in the US Today

• Shifting Political Reality (30:06–33:07)
  • Antifa’s traditional preventive strategies are outpaced as “the kind of politics they espouse has ended up in the White House.”
  • Necessity for a new playbook: “We need to write a new playbook that has to involve as many people as possible, resisting in whatever way they see fit, but building a kind of mass popular anti fascist movement to stop this march towards fascism.” (Mark Bray, 32:34)

9. The Personal Costs of Antifa Advocacy

• Targeted Doxxing and Harassment (33:07–34:23)
  • Bray discusses being the target of doxxing campaigns by right-wing organizations and media.
  • “Nevertheless, it is very disturbing. It has caused me to be concerned for my physical safety and that of my family. But I’m heartened by the fact that it...sparking a kind of national and to some extent international conversation about academic freedom and resistance to an increasingly authoritarian regime.” (Mark Bray, 33:53)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Antifa Structure:
  “There are antifa groups, but Antifa itself is not a group.” (Mark Bray, 03:46)

• On Institutional Reliance:
  “We can't simply count on the state, we can't count on the police, we can't count on the courts, and we can't count on the supposed free market of ideas... That means that when fascists come to our city to attack people, we are going to put our bodies between fascists and the people they want to attack.” (Mark Bray, 06:13)

• On Tactics:
  “Physical confrontation ought to be one of the tools in the toolbox. But according to those I interviewed, really the kind of last resort when those other efforts fail.” (Mark Bray, 09:35)

• On Trump’s Rhetoric:
  “Trump has talked about Portland being a city under siege, as a war zone, radicals burning the city down. That just isn't happening...” (Mark Bray, 12:30)

• On Free Speech and Its Limits:
  “Antifascists are not the government...they actually oppose [changing speech laws].” (Mark Bray, 24:38)

• On Preventing Far-Right Normalization:
  “You treat every group of 54 people as if they could be the nucleus of a new Nazi regime...you try to nip the threat in the bud before it grows.” (Mark Bray, 28:26)

• On Present Dangers:
  “Here we are with Trump in the White House more explicitly fascist than he was even last time. And so at this point...we’re a bit beyond that point [of preventative anti-fascism].” (Mark Bray, 31:39)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:33 – Defining Antifa, its structure and comparison to feminism
• 05:31 – Why Antifa distrusts the state and mainstream politics
• 07:49 – Strategies and real-world tactics used by Antifa groups
• 11:00 – Why Portland is central to the Antifa narrative
• 13:53 – Antifa’s presence at Charlottesville’s Unite the Right rally
• 17:09 – Trump’s terror designation, "antifa-aligned actors," and implications
• 24:05 – Free speech critiques and antifascist counter-arguments
• 27:46 – Violence, escalation, and historical lessons from fascism’s rise
• 30:56 – The current state of antifascist strategy in the U.S.
• 33:07 – Personal impact on Mark Bray as a target of doxxing campaigns

Summary

This episode offers a nuanced look at Antifa, dismantling misconceptions about its structure, strategies, and ideology. Mark Bray elucidates how antifascism is an ethos and set of tactics, not a secretive cadre. He frames Antifa as a historically grounded, anti-authoritarian response to the inherent risks of relying solely on institutions to defeat fascism. The conversation drills down into tactics, the pitfalls of conflating all protest with Antifa, and the very real dangers facing those labeled as part of the movement. The episode also critiques efforts to designate Antifa as a terrorist organization, warning about their chilling effect on broader dissent. Through expert testimony and lived experience, the episode underscores the complexities—and stakes—of anti-fascist resistance in North America today.