5 Ways Your Childhood Impacts How You Spend Money

Summary

Frugal Friends Podcast - Episode Summary Title: 5 Ways Your Childhood Impacts How You Spend Money
Hosts: Jen Smith & Jill Sirianni
Release Date: November 15, 2024

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Introduction

In this enlightening episode of the Frugal Friends Podcast, hosts Jen Smith and Jill Sirianni delve into the profound ways our childhood experiences shape our adult financial behaviors. Drawing insights from an article titled "Wealth with Sophia: How Your Childhood May Have Impacted Your Relationship with Money and What You Can Do About It" published in Tatler, the duo explores five key areas where early life influences dictate how we handle money today. Jill, a licensed clinical social worker, brings a psychological perspective to the discussion, emphasizing that money management is not just about numbers but also about understanding oneself.

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1. Parental Attitudes Towards Money

Jill initiates the conversation by highlighting the significant role parents and caregivers play in molding our financial attitudes. Whether parents are thrifty or spendthrift, their general disposition towards money leaves an indelible mark on children.

Jill [12:16]: "What are the general attitudes around money? How did your parents engage with money?... Whether we take on the same type of attitudes as our parents or we choose maybe to go into the opposite extreme."

Children observe and internalize their parents' financial habits, which can lead them to mirror or react against these behaviors in adulthood. For instance, a parent who consistently saves may instill a sense of financial security, while one who spends impulsively might inadvertently encourage similar patterns in their children.

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2. Communication About Money

Michelle underscores the importance of open dialogues about money within the family setting. The lack of communication or dismissive attitudes can lead to misconceptions and anxieties about financial matters.

Michelle [16:20]: "Nobody talks about money, so we don't feel confident in it... the lack of these conversations can lead to money traumas or forgotten money lessons."

When parents avoid discussing finances, children may grow up feeling isolated or burdened by money-related issues. Conversely, transparent conversations can equip children with the knowledge and confidence to navigate their financial futures effectively.

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3. Financial Stability During Childhood

The episode delves into how the perceived or actual financial stability experienced during childhood influences one's approach to money management later in life.

Jill [27:06]: "Understanding that... helps me to know how I experience money now, what running out feels like and how to plant my feet in reality more than necessarily what I might be experiencing emotionally as a result of that."

Children who grow up in financially unstable environments may develop either a scarcity mindset or, conversely, a tendency to overspend in adulthood as a form of rebelling against past constraints. Recognizing these patterns allows individuals to implement strategies that foster financial resilience and stability.

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4. Experiences with Money

Michelle and Jill explore various childhood experiences related to money, such as receiving allowances, performing chores for earnings, or needing to work outside the home. These experiences teach children about earning, saving, and budgeting.

Michelle [32:15]: "Were you given the opportunity to earn an allowance, or were you given money to spend whenever you asked for it?"

Children who earn their own money through chores or part-time jobs often develop a stronger work ethic and better financial planning skills. In contrast, those who receive unrestricted funds might struggle with budgeting and saving as adults.

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5. Emotional Connection with Money

The final key area discusses the emotional bonds formed with money during childhood, whether money was associated with stress, joy, or neutrality.

Jill [35:16]: "How did we feel about it? How did we see others feeling about it?... Money associated with stress or conflict could lead to overspending or extreme frugality in adulthood."

Emotional associations with money can dictate spending habits. For example, viewing money as a source of stress may lead to avoidance behaviors, while associating it with positive experiences might foster healthy spending and saving practices.

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Conclusion

Jen and Jill wrap up the episode by emphasizing that understanding the roots of one's financial behaviors is crucial for cultivating healthier money habits. They advocate for continual learning and self-compassion, encouraging listeners to break free from negative patterns inherited from their upbringing. By gaining awareness of these childhood influences, individuals can make more informed and intentional financial decisions, paving the way towards greater financial independence and well-being.

Jill [39:32]: "Understanding childhood and upbringing allows us to take responsibility for ourselves through understanding ourselves better... We can become unstuck when we can put these puzzle pieces together."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Jill [03:31]: "It's not just about math. There's so much that plays into really all of our behaviors and our outlook on life, which of course impacts money."

• Michelle [08:18]: "It's never too late to learn the skills of spending well and managing money."

• Michelle [16:20]: "Because nobody talks about money, so we don't feel confident in it... it's a gatekept thing."

• Jill [27:06]: "Understanding that helps me to know how I experience money now, what running out feels like..."

• Jill [35:16]: "Money associated with stress or conflict could lead to overspending or extreme frugality in adulthood."

• Jill [39:32]: "We can become unstuck when we can put these puzzle pieces together."

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This episode serves as a comprehensive guide for listeners seeking to understand the psychological underpinnings of their financial habits. By addressing the five key ways childhood impacts adult spending, Frugal Friends Podcast provides actionable insights for achieving financial freedom and fostering a healthier relationship with money.

Transcript

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[Jill]

Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast.

[Michelle]

Where you'll learn to save money, embrace.

[Jill]

Simplicity, and live a richer life. Here are your hosts, Jen and Jill.

[Michelle]

Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen.

[Jill]

My name is Jill.

[Michelle]

And today we are talking about your childhood and your adult money and how the two connect.

[Jill]

Oh, so excited.

[Michelle]

Jill is so excited. Jill, we don't. I mean, we don't talk about it a ton, but she is a licensed clinical social worker and so stuff like this is her jam.

[Jill]

I do enjoy it, which it probably is good to remind. I'm sure OGs know that about me, but we have gotten some reviews that say, like, this is pseudo psychology, blah, blah, blah, blah. It was a while ago, but I'm like, no, I am licensed to be able to talk about this.

[Michelle]

Oh, wow.

[Jill]

So here you have it. I just, I keep it under wraps for the most part, but it is really thrilling to me when I get to combine that aspect of my personhood with finances. And of course, you see it throughout for both of us, I think we enjoy looking at ourselves as whole people and exploring the ways that all of the aspects of who we are impact our money decisions and behaviors. Because it is not just about math. It is not just about putting numbers on a paper and making the exact right decisions. There's so much that plays into really all of our behaviors and our outlook on life, which of course impacts money. And so, of course, similar to all the rest of life, our childhood, the way that we were raised, impacts how we move through life for better or worse. There are some really beautiful things about that for some of us. There's some things we need to untangle and create new patterns of relating. And the same is true for money. But yet it's one of the areas that I think we talk about and look at the least regarding what did this look like in my childhood? And what of those things are spilling over now? So that's what we're gonna explore. We're breaking it down into some, into five ways. Of course, there's more than that. We're primarily looking at just what your understanding of your upbringing can do to help you make better spending decisions now.

[Michelle]

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[Jill]

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[Michelle]

So it's a real problem.

[Jill]

Yeah, it is a real problem. It hurts too when you fall on that mulch and it just gets stuck.

[Michelle]

Yeah, you don't think about it, but it's there.

[Jill]

We pulled you all in the friend letter and asked, what do you most wish you learned about money as a kid? And you all, of course, most of you did say how to invest, but there was then a good spread between the rest of the answers of how to spend wisely, best ways to save money, the realities of debt. That was actually second place. And then of course, how to invest. So really we are kind of all over the map almost saying we really wish we just had a financial crash course, a 101 growing up. And so we feel, yeah, it's really not talked about very often. And that doesn't mean that we have to then settle in that place. It doesn't mean that we can't learn the skill of spending well and managing money well. But it is good to recognize if you weren't taught these things then, how could you expect yourself to know them now? And recognizing that and then being kind to yourself by learning these skills now, no matter what age you are, it's never too late.

[Michelle]

Yeah, I think the answer, because there were some responses, I think the answer that got me most was from our reader who said, I just wish I hadn't been brushed off every time I ask an adult other than my mother about anything money related. At least she answered honestly and she understood more than you'd expect for somebody who never went to college and didn't have any, anything but life experience for a teacher. And it's, it is kind of signaling how a lot of this is gatekeeped and that's, we'll go into that a little bit. But it, there are a lot of gaps for us and they're generational, you know, like you can't, you don't know what you don't know, you can't teach what you know you don't know is needed to teach. And so a lot of that is the source of some of these like, maybe like money traumas or just money, like for, you know, forgotten about money lessons that we did not get as kids. But I am very excited to go through this episode.

[Jill]

So the article we're going to focus on today comes from Tatler. It's titled wealth with Sophia. How your childhood may have impacted your relationship with money and what you can do about it. We pulled out five, like five takeaways. Although this wasn't explicit within this article. This was a little bit more mining the article for some of these takeaways. And then I added in just a few, just that I know about. But I really enjoyed this article and I think it's, it's worth diving into. And they cite at the beginning this research from the University of Cambridge where they found that many of our fundamental money habits are already taking shape by the tender age of seven. By the time we are seven years old, we have formulated an idea and understanding of money, even if it's not been explicitly talked about. And those habits are the very ones that we will carry with us into adulthood, if not then kind of taught or undone or added to. And if you combine that with the reality that many schools and parents are not teaching their kids about money, if at all, at least usually after 7, you're not usually having these money conversations. For many of us, we didn't. So it's, it's an interesting thing to realize. Wow, there's so much that we pick up on early on and the information comes so much later than that. And so yeah, it can really Help us to see why we might have some of these habits and behaviors that aren't necessarily benefiting us financially and what can we do about it? And how can this help inform those of us who might be parents to be able to teach children. And this is maybe the call out to say, yeah, no it's not. 3, 4, 5, 6 is not too early. If a lot of this is being picked up by age seven.

[Michelle]

Yeah, we just had an episode several weeks ago with Andy Hill about how to make your kid a millionaire. And most of it was focused on how do we form their mindset around money, how do we help them shape that mindset? And it, you cannot start too early. As soon as they start to ask about things that require limits or boundaries or consumption, like that's it, that's the starting point. So yeah, it's. If you're wondering when to start teaching kids about money, it's definitely before seven. But if you haven't yet, it's also not too late.

[Jill]

So the first one that I want to extract from this article is how our upbringing impacts the way that we now engage with money. Is our parents or caregivers attitudes towards money. This is something that we certainly pick up on. Again whether or not is we sit down and talk about money as kids with our parents. But what are the general attitudes around money? How did your parents engage with money? What did you watch them do regarding spending and saving? What were beliefs about wealth? Did they stick to societal norms? Did kind of operate on the fringe? Were they pushing back against consumerism? Were they fully engaged in it? How was money kind of approached, understood, talked about just general attitudes about money, that this is something that we then can take on. Whether we take on the same type of attitudes as our parents or we choose maybe to go into the opposite extreme. Either way it does form some of the foundation of how we, we even view this thing.

[Michelle]

Yeah, it's that more is caught than taught thing. That's the first part. So the way you speak about money, not even in conversation, but just the way that you maybe speak to other people and children are hearing it, or the way your parents would speak about it, or the way they would look at a bill, like you get a bill in the mail and there's just like so much turmoil or watching people, your, you know, parents just spend money willy nilly. Like money comes in, money comes out. That's the belief. So like what you caught is significantly going to influence your attitude towards money. So the next one I think is maybe the biggest one and it follows up kind of on the reader reply that I just read. It's the communication about money. So this is what your parents actually told you or what they did not tell you even if you asked. And this was a big thing in my house. My parents did not want to talk to me about money because they didn't want to quote, unquote, burden me with that. It was. So I picked up that money is a burden. Having money is hard and not having it is a burden. Or I didn't even know if we had a lot of money. I assumed that we didn't because we didn't have the house and the stuff like other people. So then I interpreted money as a burden and something to be scared of entering into adulthood. Like cherish this time when you don't have to worry about money because money is a negative thing when you reach adulthood.

[Jill]

Yeah. And I think too well, we'll get to experiences, but also the specific time, the environment in which you grew up and were living in and how you saw your parents kind of walk through like so for you and I, Jen, you know, the 2008 housing crisis and different kind of economic downturns through some of those formative years may shift, you know, parental attitudes and the communication about money versus someone who might have been a child during economic times that were really great. That that's going to play a part in this as well. Just even what generation did you grow up in? And what was the parental generation before you? How were they kind of approaching some of these things decade to decade?

[Michelle]

Also, I think the important thing from that reader replied too was that this person had asked other people outside of their family, like wanted to know and explore and people wouldn't answer her questions. Yeah, like either. Because maybe they didn't know and they didn't want to be wrong. Like nobody talks about money, so we don't feel confident in it. Right. So nobody would answer questions. So it felt, it also felt like a gatekeeped thing. And something I see and have been thinking a lot about is how like we. I just got back from fincon and so there are definitely a section of people that are moderate income, but you've got people there that are very high income and high net worth. And because we're all money nerds, everybody intermingles and talks about money and it's not weird, but at home it's hard. And I find myself doing this when I am with someone I know is doing like at least quarter of a million like in income every year. And I, you know, they've got their nice cars, they've got their brand new house and all this stuff. And like they're talking about things I can't relate to. And there's a bit of judgment, like you are complaining about things that a lot of other people don't have to complain about. And like that just feels icky to me because I relate on a lower income level. So then in turn they feel judged and they, and I'm internalizing all this, but I assume they feel judged so they stop hanging out with people who are in that lower income bracket and try to exclusively hang out with more people in the higher income bracket. So that alienates high income earners from low income earners. And we have essentially alienated ourselves because of our judgment. And it makes it harder to be in relationship with these people who could answer questions for us and not. And feel more confident. They are more confident in those answers. And it just. And the divide grows with every generation because in part due to some of our judgmentalness.

[Jill]

Yeah, well, and I think you're probably also highlighting what our experience could be in childhood as well with that, with where we live. Again, that environment that we're talking about, not just the generation and the timeframe in which we were growing up, but also the location. We see this with housing. Like I live in a lower middle class neighborhood and so that's all I'm surrounded by. If I had children, that would be the income bracket that we have here. Right. Most neighborhoods don't have stark differences on the same road of what the houses look like and the socioeconomic status. And so we also then kind of only know what we see, what we're surrounded by and the income brackets and then the attitudes about money and the conversation about money that may or may not happen. And one of the things that I see, and I'm just going to say this anecdotally, this is not like research backed, but it seems to me that those with less talk about money less. Those with more will talk about it more. Just as far as financial education. And so we're not learning, of course, we're talking about maybe not having, but we're not necessarily talking about, oh, how can I improve the situation, how can I make better decisions? Whereas those in some of these higher income brackets might have more of the knowledge about investing, how they got there and are teaching their children more about it. And so there's that cycle that you're talking about of continued disparity because we're not around it. We don't have access to it. No one's teaching us about it. And it's not our current living situation either. So how do we kind of learn new patterns and different ways and, yeah, the only way, I think, is exposing ourselves to those things, Right?

[Michelle]

Yeah. Kind of putting aside some of our maybe judgmentalness or insecurity, some imposter syndrome, and kind of breaking that from, you know, I was the poor kid growing up and putting ourselves in more of those, you know, it's baby steps, Right? Like we say, when you're trying to say no to impulse spending, you make baby steps. And the more. The quicker the successes you have, the more confident you feel. Right? Baby steps. And it's the same way, like, the more we network with people who have been more successful with money, more successful negotiating career moves and all that, it's going to feel awkward at first. But that's how you break the cycle, is by being a little uncomfortable and putting yourself in these situations so that you have a community where you can ask questions. And people who've already ascended these baby steps or maybe just were born ahead of the game and had fewer baby steps to, like, walk so that you can get your questions answered more confidently.

[Jill]

And I want to clarify, at least for me, the goal isn't so that I end up in a big mansion with beautiful luxury cars. I'm sitting on top of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars, and I'm sequestering myself away from society and culture. I would hope that if I did come upon more money, that it wouldn't change too much about my lifestyle and my community. But I think that there is something to be said for it's okay to want more. It's okay to want to earn a little bit more, to not constantly feel stretched thin. So, of course, talking about. I think both you and I have experiences of not having a lot through childhood. So I think some of this is bringing up our own personal backgrounds and kind of how it's impacted us.

[Jen]

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[Jill]

Say, who are you talking to? Because I never did.

[Jen]

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[Jill]

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[Jen]

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[Jill]

But the third thing I want to point out on here is financial stability and that you experienced during childhood. And I would say this would probably be real or perceived. I think a lot of times our parents and caregivers can kind of create the environment for us that we don't always know what exactly is happening financially. And sometimes that's intentional on our parents part, sometimes not. But whatever financial stability during childhood you felt will have an impact on the way that you now approach money. Experience your own lifestyle. So whether there was a sense of having enough or constantly feeling like maybe money was running out, I know for me growing up, my dad's job, he's an entrepreneur and it was either feast or famine. And a lot of times and they would even talk to us about this like we don't want you to worry about money. That's for mom and dad, that's for us to be worried about. And I respect that. Certainly there are certainly adult themes that children just don't need to be concerned about. But what I noticed too in that was I would only really become aware of our financial situation when it was starting to run out and we needed to kind of pinch the grocery budget or clip the coupons and do the different things. And so for me that's one of the pieces of that financial stability during childhood is I didn't know much, but then when I was aware of it, it was when there wasn't a lot coming in. And so that's neither good nor Bad. It just was the experience. And so for me, understanding that that's what I went. You know, that was my experience. It helps me to kind of know how I experience money now, what running out feels like and how to. How to plant my feet in reality more than necessarily what I might be experiencing emotionally as a result of that.

[Michelle]

Yeah, I think something that, like, I am seeing right now is in somebody else that I know who recently, like, inherited money and grew up without a lot of money, or at least not the ability to use a lot of money. And then when he inherited his parents, like retirement, it wasn't extravagant, but definitely like a good amount. And then. And right. And now he is just going ape with spending. And it'll be a while before it runs out, but it will run out at this rate. And it's. And you can get it. Like, you do that rebelling thing. Like, I didn't get this as a child and I deserve it now. I can afford it and I'm going to make up for lost time. And we're always making up for lost time with that mindset. And until you decide what is enough, like what is making up for it, you have to put a line in the sand and decide, okay, yes, I have deserved this for a while and I haven't gotten it. That's normal. We all deserve a lot more than maybe what we can afford. Whether it's, you know, circumstantial or intentional or whatever we did. The I deserve mentality is toxic episode. And that's kind of what the gist of it was. But we make the best with what we have. And we don't, you know, we try not to be delusional and, you know, move outside of that. But like, when you come into this, like, maybe gift of inheritance or a raise or insurance payout, you can. It's good to make up for some of that. It is good. But you have to decide when. When have you made up for it. Otherwise you put yourself immediately back in the position of deserving. Well, at that point, it's. Then you feel guilty. Then you've got another added layer of guilt for having, you know, quote unquote, maybe squandered something that was a gift. So whether that's reality or not, so really figuring out, like, how to use. Because I think more of us are going to have this, like, rebellious experience, like the child. The financial stability in childhood is going to be rocky versus having a lot of uber wealth and squatter.

[Jill]

I don't think we have frugal friends.

[Michelle]

Yeah. I think we're speaking to a specific audience, but so, yeah, figuring out how to use those gifts so that you either, like, you don't squander them, or you don't let the hedonic treadmill of lifestyle inflation get out of hand. You can really, like, break that cycle again.

[Jill]

Yeah.

[Michelle]

Next for me is experiences with money. So that would be allowances. Were you given the opportunity to earn an allowance, or were you given money to spend whenever you asked for it? And then also earning opportunities outside of, like, chores. Were you able to have a job? Did your parents not want you to have a job? Were you not able to have a job because of extracurriculars? So, like, none of it is bad. It's just knowing what your situation was and how it impacted your upbringing. Right. So, like, we want to teach our kids hard work. So sometimes a parent will decide that's in the form of doing a sport. So there is no work, so there is no, like, earning of money. And sometimes the parent will decide that that's a job or it will be chores. And so those all come with different experiences of how. How did we get the things we wanted in childhood and how does that affect us now? For me, I wanted a job as soon as I could, and I had to wait. Like, When I turned 16, I had to wait six months because I had band season and I couldn't work during band season.

[Jill]

Of course not.

[Michelle]

But I wanted financial autonomy.

[Jill]

What did you play? Clarinet. Yeah, I knew that you did that.

[Michelle]

Because I think I've told you.

[Jill]

I can't tell if I knew because you told me or if I know because I just know you. And I know what instrument you'd play.

[Michelle]

Could be either at this point. But so I wanted financial autonomy, like, really quickly. That was a personality trait within me. But also I saw my parents struggle financially. They didn't go into debt. They didn't buy more than they could afford. And to me, that translated to that, you know, they were poor. That's what I thought at 16. And I was like, I want my own money to do whatever I want with it because I can't rely on these people. And that's what I've interned. I have taken that into adulthood and know, like, I cannot rely on my mom financially. I just can't. And that has been something I've learned from childhood, whether it's financial or otherwise. That's what I've internalized. And so I got a job as soon as I could to make my own money and save it. But they did they bought me a car, my mom and dad. So, like, that was something I didn't have to save for.

[Jill]

Yeah.

[Michelle]

And I think it also comes down to like maybe knowing your child and their personality at that point. But I, I don't know how they could afford the car. And then I just assumed they couldn't afford anything. For me, it was obviously my prefrontal cortex was not fully developed. So I think that's another thing we have to realize the. These things that we learned about money in our childhood, they may or may not be real.

[Jill]

Yes. Yeah, right. Our understanding of money may not actually be accurate, which I think I told this story on the podcast before, but for the sake of underscoring that point, I remember my mom would often say, we can't afford that. We'd be at the store and ask for something we can't afford that, can't afford that. Then we get up to the cash register at one point and she pays for something and they ask her if she wants cash back and she says yes. And so they give her her money back. And in my child's brain, I could not understand. And I said to her, I'm like, well, mom, just go up to the, to the cash register and ask them for money like you, like you always do, like you just got money from them. And she, I think, I don't know if she tried to explain it or it's just like that doesn't, that's not how it worked. But I couldn't understand. Like, so wait, you gave them a little bit of money and then we get our groceries and then they give you a lot of bit of money back and now we leave with more money, more groceries. I don't know why we can't afford stuff. I think you're lying to me. So in inaccurate understanding of money as a child. Now I know she probably wasn't lying to me. We really couldn't afford those things. So anyhow, the last and final one for me kind of pulled from this article is our emotional connection with money in childhood. How did we feel about it? How did we see others were feeling about it? What type of attachment do we have with this kind of thing that we are engaging with pretty regularly? Was money associated with stress or conflict? If that's the case, it could lead to multiple things. Either overspending now in adulthood or super restrictive spending like you've already talked about, Jen, Sometimes whatever we experienced, if we perceive it as not great, it could lead us to extremes of either, I'm going to do the exact opposite of what my parents did. Or I'm going to really buckle down harder than what I thought that my parents did so that I don't have to experience, like, this degree of whatever I perceived as deprivation. Or maybe there's a great emotional attachment to money and you're just out here making great decisions and that's lovely too. But. Or, you know, with spending associated in childhood with, here's how we celebrate, here's how we spend time. I know you and I have talked about that in the past, Jen. A lot of times weekend activities were just going shopping, going to the mall. And so there's an attachment that can happen with that type of situation of, oh, this is a fun thing. This is how we have fun. This is how we celebrate is through spending money.

[Michelle]

Yeah. And I want to just wrap it up with this idea that sometimes how our parents handled money cannot just make us judgmental towards money and impact how we view money. It can also impact how we view our parents and it can make us judgmental towards them. I know it has made me judgmental towards my mother for sure. And knowing like giving ourselves grace and giving our parents grace. We are all working with the tools that we have. And sometimes it's not a lot of tools. And it is only in our power to pick up more tools for ourselves and to maybe overcome some of these generational, like, beliefs that are misguided about money or practices that are misguided around money. All we can control is ourselves and the way we move forward. And we just want to pick up more knowledge so that we have more tools and take action with those tools. And it's not, we can't control what our parents do with money, whether they pick up tools or not. But we are all working with some kind of generational starting point that we cannot control and to have grace for those around us.

[Jill]

Yeah, well said. I've heard the criticism about psychology and therapy and digging into childhood of, you know, oh, just so you can blame everything on your childhood and your upbringing and not take any responsibility for yourself now. And I would say it's. That's not the reason for understanding childhood and upbringing. It is so that we can take responsibility for ourselves through understanding ourselves better. It's also not to make excuses for parents, but also to recognize, like you said, they were working with the tools that they're working with. There's this concept within therapeutic circles of radical acceptance. And so I think as I look back on some of my experiences and I had both great and not so great Experiences. Right. Like all of us, it's this. Here is what happened, at least my perception of it. And it's not my job to place blame or to point fingers or to harbor bitterness about some of these pieces, but to just say, this is what was as I experienced it, how is it impacting me now? And what can I do to own myself now in my own decisions? How I approach money and how I approach my parents, like, they are whole people, too, and their financial decisions were wrapped in all of the other aspects of who they are and how they were raised. And so, like you're saying, giving grace to ourselves, giving grace to our parents, those people who raised us, and now choosing, what do we want to do with this? What was good, what do I want to carry with me and what's not so great, what's not going to be benefiting me and I can move on from. But I think it does start with understanding this because there's so many puzzle pieces that will help us to explain, oh, that's what this is connected to. Rather than the shame cycle that we can find ourselves on of that. Why that defensive question? We can ask ourselves, why do I do this? Why do I keep finding myself in this cycle of arguments with my partner? Okay, how did the way that they perceived money and they were raised impact what they're saying now? And how did the way that I was raised and my experiences with money impact this? And a lot of times when we're able to have those types of conversations and get to the root of it, so much more flexibility and freedom for one another and a pathway forward, I think, can be found. We can become unstuck when we can put these puzzle pieces together.

[Michelle]

Yeah. You know, another way we can become unstuck in an episode when it, you know, gets to a really good, like, tipping point.

[Jill]

The Bill of the Week.

[Jen]

That's right. It's time for the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name is William. Maybe you paid off your mortgage, maybe.

[Michelle]

Your car died and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore. Duck Bills, Buffalo Bills, Bill Clinton.

[Jen]

This is the Bill of the Week.

[Michelle]

Hi, Jen and Jill. My Bill of the week is Mint Mobile for our cell phones. We have four phones on our plan. Last year at this time, we were paying $227 per month to a certain highfalutin, you know, very notable mobile plan. $40 of that was for phones. So we had to keep stay with them until December to pay off our phones. But as soon as we paid off our phones, we switched to Mint Mobile with mint mobile for four phones. We paid $340, taxes included for six total months. We got three months free, so service has been great. Then we just renewed our contract with Mint mobile and for 12 months we'll be getting four phones for $300. Actually $295 for a three month span. So that equates to about $75 per phone or $25 per phone. You can't beat it. Everybody should switch to Mint Mobile. Thanks you too. Love listening to you. Would love to hear my bill of the week on your show. Thank you. Well, Michelle, you got what you wanted and promise that you are not a plant by Mint. Because we do love Mint and I assume that you're not a plant, but.

[Jill]

That they send you to. I mean if that is, that's going deep.

[Michelle]

That is going deep.

[Jill]

Mint Mobile knows us that way.

[Michelle]

Ryan Reynolds is on another level with advertising. They're submitting bills of the week. But I mean, we do love Mint and the reason that we shill for Mint so hard is because before we were even on Iheartra, everyone was saying how Mint really helped them lower their phone bill. And so you can use mintmobile.com frugal for a deal or frugal friends podcast.com mint yeah, either of those will work.

[Jill]

It's cool to hear a listener actually do it and see how much it's working for you to go from paying 237amonth to something like 3:50amonth. And I was doing the math on some of the numbers you said said either way, significantly less.

[Michelle]

Yes.

[Jill]

Than what you were paying. So that's amazing. Thanks for sharing, Michelle. Again, Mint mobile.com frugal because why not? If you're listening to this bill, they.

[Michelle]

Didn'T pay for this. So you should use frugal friends podcast.com mint okay. Because then we get a little kickback.

[Jill]

Oh yeah. This is how we hack it.

[Michelle]

So yeah, let's hack.

[Jill]

This is how we become millionaires. Yes. Okay, if you are listening, if you've got a bill that you want to share about some company we've shilled for in the past and how it has actually helped you save money. Or, you know, if your name is Bill, we have yet to hear from you, Bill, please call us frugalfriendspodcast.com Bill. Can't wait to hear it.

[Jen]

Hey, it's Alicia. When people tell me, wow, you have such beautiful skin, for a second I say, who are you talking to because I never did. Keys Soul Care is a holistic beauty.

[Jill]

And skincare line I created working with a leading dermatologist. I'm so proud of these product offerings.

[Jen]

Because they're all about caring for the whole self inside and out. Nourish your skin, Nurture your soul. Try clinically proven Skincare from Alicia Keys with 25% off your first purchase at keyssoulcare.com using code GLOWONAIR, M and A can get chaotic between due diligence, integration and everything in between. It's easy to feel like you're drowning in the details. I'm Kisan Patel, host of M and A Science, the weekly podcast that cuts through the confusion. Every week I sit down with MA pros who faced it all the challenges, curveballs and lessons learned the hard way. No buzzwords, no theories, just real, actionable advice from people in the trenches. From keeping deals on track to managing integrations without losing your sanity, each episode is straight up practical insight. What works, what doesn't, and how to simplify your own MA process. Wherever you are in the deal cycle, want to close the next deal with confidence? Tune in to MA Science. No fluff, just real talk about what it takes to close deals. Listen on your favorite podcast app. Here's to the deal. Introducing Signals, the next generation of platforms for investors designed to elevate your trading strategy by giving access to insights used by Wall street pros to dominate the market, Signals uses its proprietary data of $70 billion in consumer spend across North America to spot market trends before they make the headlines. We bring you the alternative data that drives decisions at top hedge funds, allowing you to carve your own edge in the stock market. Join the insider circle who are already transforming their investment strategies. Visit joinsignals.com to start your free 14 day trial. No hidden fees, no gimmicks, just pure, actionable insights. End your reliance on outdated information with signals. Invest like a pro. Make informed decisions swiftly and stay ahead of the curve. Uncover tomorrow's market moves with today's real time data. Visit joinsignals.com today. Gifting is hard, but here's a hint. Give the gift of connection from US Cellular. Not sure what that means? Here's a slightly more specific hint. You can choose four free phones and get four lines for $90 a month from US Cellular. Your family wants new phones. How do we know? They told us. The good news is that compared to wrapping presents, you're great at getting hints. So take the hint and get them four free phones and four lines for $90 a month US Cellular built for us. For many of us, the holiday season means more travel, more shopping, more time online, and more of your personal information in more places you can't control. It only takes one innocent mistake, even if it's not your mistake, to expose you to identity theft. Not to worry. LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points every second and alerts you to threats you could miss by yourself. Even if you keep an eye on your bank and credit card statements, if your identity is stolen, your own US based restoration specialist will fix it, guaranteed. The last thing you want to do this holiday season is face drained accounts, fraudulent loans or other financial losses from identity theft all alone. Gift yourself the peace of mind that comes with LifeLock and spend more time doing more of the holiday things you love. Visit lifelock.com iheart and save up to 40% your first year. That's 40% [e-mail] iheartradio LifeLock for the threats you can't control.

[Jill]

And now it's time for the lightning round.

[Michelle]

All right, I kind of love this one. What 7 year old money habits do you still see pop up in your adult spending today?

[Jill]

Do you have an answer?

[Michelle]

I want to hear yours first. Did you make this question?

[Jill]

I did, yeah.

[Michelle]

I was like, this is a Jill question.

[Jill]

Yeah. It ties into the article. You, the seven year old, I realize, connected to what I have already shared in my vulnerability throughout this episode of not really talking about money growing up unless we were kind of running out of it, has kind of impacted my own need to kind of hedge my bets. And so I will notice that I will just kind of like stuff away. I'm a little bit of like a stuffer. Yeah, you are my desire. Yeah, my desire to like hide a $20 bill on the Christmas tree. I don't know if any of you heard about that. That's so many seven year olds right now. That is a seven year old desire. Right. That is not an adult desire to like stuff a $20 bill in with the Christmas tree for next year. That's. That's seven year old Jill.

[Michelle]

Oh my gosh, I am dying right now. That is hilarious.

[Jill]

You know what else I've notice? I do this with food too. So we just got back from a European vacation, which was very lovely. We'd put money away and saved for this and then did it, which was awesome. But I noticed along the way because we were traveling with friends, I noticed because no one else did this any place we were that offered, so let's say a continental breakfast. I Could. I cannot leave the continental breakfast without taking something with me.

[Michelle]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jill]

And I'm not the. I'm not the big purse. Like, I'm not doing the things that they would. That the owners would feel like. Okay, woman, stop. You know, it's just. I'm on my way out and I'm gonna grab a croissant. Yeah.

[Michelle]

A little sneaky snack.

[Jill]

And I'm on my hungry later and I'm gonna grab, you know, some of those crackers. Actually, the pre workout snack that Eric had this morning was from Switzerland, where I, like, snagged and hoarded a little bit of Nutella and a little cracker never ended up eating it. Just in case. I just don't want to be caught without a little snacky after $20. A little. There's something somewhere squirreled away.

[Michelle]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I love that.

[Jill]

Honestly, there's still little croissant crumbs in my purse. While I said I don't bring the big purse, I did still put the croissant in my purse.

[Michelle]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jill]

And it came in handy like five hours later that day, of course.

[Michelle]

Yeah, that's just smart. On vacation to do.

[Jill]

Yeah.

[Michelle]

Oh, wow.

[Jill]

Without you, Jen.

[Michelle]

Okay, so I think some of my aversion to budgeting comes from my childhood because my parents never budgeted. They never consulted their future to see if what they were doing in the present was a good idea. And so they would just kind of like impulsively do activities, impulsively buy things. Everything was very impulsive. And. And now that makes me almost cherish impulsivity. So I want to. If I want to take Kai to Starbucks to get a cake pop because he loves cake pops, I want to do that. And I don't want to check a budget in order to. That to me. I don't want anybody to tell me what I can and cannot do, even if that person is me. So that is why I have become a passionate proponent for values based spending is because I don't want to consult a piece of paper or an app for permission to do things. And I also want to keep in check to make sure the things that I'm doing impulsively are truly in line with what I value and that I can quickly tell the difference. Even in that fight or flight mode where it's like, you know, just that impulsive thinking like, ooh, I want to do this. No, I don't actually do not that. That's, you know, not what I want to do versus saying yes. And that for the values based spending. And our. Our book buy what you love without going broke has truly been what I wanted to have.

[Jill]

Yeah.

[Michelle]

And what I've needed. To not work against my brain, not work against my upbringing, to still value and cherish the things about me that make me me. But how can I do that in a way that also helps me save for the future.

[Jill]

Yeah.

[Michelle]

And save for things like a vacation.

[Jill]

And not make seven year old money decisions.

[Michelle]

Right. Like I don't have to live a life like a half life just to be somebody else's definition of financially stable.

[Jill]

Wow, you've got a really inspirational story and I'm over here just squirreling. No, I love yours.

[Michelle]

I love yours. It is my favorite thing today, so.

[Jill]

Well, thanks everyone so much for listening. And thank you also, all of you little gems out here writing us reviews like this one from Daphne or Daphne.

[Michelle]

Daphne.

[Jill]

Daphne. Dap. Gentle guidance instead of finance shouting. We do kind of yell a lot, but I appreciate that. Five stars. This podcast is the perfect chaser after an intense listen to other financial advice podcasts that tend to be prescriptive and intense.

[Michelle]

No idea.

[Jill]

I listen to this weekly to help me keep a steady pace towards my goals. As someone who has used shopping to cure boredom, this is almost like a daily vitamin that boosts my resolve to stay true to what I value and resist spending that doesn't serve me a great companion in addition to shows like Choose Fi and Money Guy.

[Michelle]

Ooh, we're gonna be on Choose Fi in a few weeks.

[Jill]

I like that you shouted out other podcasts that might be kind of in a similar vein.

[Michelle]

People do that.

[Jill]

Then you might listen to us. We did ask for that and Dapne, you responded, so thank you so much.

[Michelle]

Yes. So please, if you have some other podcast recommendations that we are similar to, it helps if somebody has listened to another show like Choose Fi or Money Guys and they already like that and you say this is kind of like that but with girls, then that helps them see if it's right for them or not.

[Jill]

Thanks, everyone. See you next time.

[Michelle]

Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Siri. Yummy.

[Jill]

You got the squeaky chair.

[Michelle]

I got the squeaky chair. In the move.

[Jill]

Yeah, in the move.

[Michelle]

In the move.

[Jill]

In the post hurricane move.

[Michelle]

We're still reeling post hurricane because Jill had to move all her furniture to higher ground.

[Jill]

Yep.

[Michelle]

And one of our chairs is squeaky and Jill used to have it and now I have it.

[Jill]

Now Jen has it. Yeah, I'm kind of glad to be without it.

[Michelle]

I know you didn't do it. Eric did it. Eric took the chair down right?

[Jill]

Well I think we first did both pull that chair down. I didn't do it on purpose. I didn't know which order they went in.

[Michelle]

So maybe Eric did it this for you.

[Jill]

Maybe. Yeah. I wonder how well you can hear it on the audio.

[Michelle]

I don't think you probably can hear it.

[Jill]

I don't know.

[Michelle]

I mean there has been times where there has been a lot of things going on outside like cock a doodle doing and you can't really hear any of it on the show. Yeah, from what I I haven't gotten any emails about it.

[Jill]

If you do hear the squeaky chair in our episodes, leave us a review.

[Michelle]

Make it five stars and say Jen, I'm so sorry for your loss of the non squeaky chair. Prayers and thoughts. Thoughts and prayers. This message comes from Greenlight. Ready to start talking to your kids about financial literacy? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app that teaches kids and teens how to earn, save, spend wisely and invest. With your guardrails in place with Greenlight, you can send money to kids instantly, set up chores, automate allowance, and keep an eye on your kids spending with real time notifications. Join millions of parents and kids building healthy financial habits together on Greenlight. Sign up for Greenlight [e-mail] iheart hey, come on in. Small Business Saturday is right around the corner, and so is that shop you've been meaning to check out on November 30th. Support your local community by shopping small on Small Business Saturday, founded by American Express. Pick up a new outfit, a hand gift, some vintage vinyl, maybe even some local tea.

[Jill]

Thanks so much. See you soon.

[Michelle]

Shop on small business Saturday, November 30th. That's the powerful packing of American Express.

[Jill]

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[Jen]

The captivating Toyota Crown family Toyota. Let's go places.

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There's joy to be had in finding.

[Michelle]

The perfect gifts for the ones You Love, and Saks.com's holiday gift guide can make it easy. Whether it's surprising you're hard to shop for, sister with a Chloe bracelet, B bag, or gifting your partner a memorable scent from Gucci that matches their personality. Saks.com's handpicked guide can help take the stress out of the holidays, like adding.

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Instant cheer to your home with bright.

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Bundling up in a scarf coat from Tatem. Find gifts guaranteed to bring joy to everyone this [e-mail] at Amica Insurance, we.

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Know it's more than just a car.

[Jen]

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