$96K in Debt w/ a $900 Car Payment!?!? | Reading Money Reddit Stories

Summary

Frugal Friends Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Title: $96K in Debt w/ a $900 Car Payment!?!? | Reading Money Reddit Stories
Hosts: Jen Smith & Jill Sirianni
Date: November 14, 2025
Theme:
Jen and Jill dive into real-life financial confessions from Reddit’s r/PersonalFinance. The episode explores the emotions and challenges behind major debt, practical repayment strategies, and how to use frugality and community for support. With their hallmark warmth and humor, the hosts dissect two anonymous Reddit posts about overwhelming debt, offering empathy, actionable advice, and much-needed hope.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Story #1: "Am I Cooked? $96K in Debt at 23" ([02:28]–[21:31])

The Reddit Post

• The Situation:
  • 23-year-old, just secured a $75,000/year job, living with parents.
  • Debt Breakdown:
    • $20,574 credit cards
    • $6,486 in collections
    • $32,486 student loans (planning to get an MBA)
    • $36,642 auto loan (Mercedes, underwater, $933/mo + $500/mo insurance)
    • Only $3,518 in Roth IRA savings
  • No home loan, minimal additional savings.

Emotional Reality of Debt ([04:07]–[06:43])

• Jen: “When you’re that age, 23 is so young... everything just feels more massive.” ([04:07])
• Jill: “It's so hard to forge a new narrative when you don't know that reality yet. You have none of those experiences—you only have the experience of accumulating debt.” ([05:42])
• Acknowledges how overwhelming debt feels in your 20s without a personal track record of success.

Silver Linings & Strengths ([06:51]–[09:42])

• Jill: “She has a Roth IRA. That is a lot more than many people can say, especially at that age.” ([07:10])
• Jen: Even with no further IRA contributions, $3,500 could grow to $52,000 in 40 years. ([09:25])
• Living at home and earning above the national median income.

Tackling Debt: Methods & Mindset ([09:59]–[14:12])

• Jen: Introduces The One Thing (Gary Keller) and focuses on prioritizing debt: “What's the one thing that, by doing, makes everything else easier or unnecessary?” ([10:13])

• Debt approach:

  • Prioritize by highest interest: Credit cards > collections > auto > student loans.
  • Mentions debt snowball (smallest first) vs. debt avalanche (highest interest first) and the importance of psychology—breaking large debts into "chunks" for quick wins.

• Quote (re method):
  Jen: “There is something to be said for the debt snowball... But if the collections aren't like bearing any interest... the credit cards are going to have so much interest that it's going to be easier to meet the other goals because of that.” ([12:38])

Running the Numbers ([14:12]–[19:00])

• Jill:

  • On $75,000 salary, after tax estimate: $4,460/mo.
  • Debt minimums: $2,317/mo (credit cards, collections, student loans, car payment + insurance).
  • General living: $650/mo.
  • Result: ~$1,500 surplus/month to aggressively pay down debt.

• On the car:

  • Underwater on a Mercedes; $933/mo payment and $500/mo insurance. ([16:02])
  • Escape route: Out of the lease in 18 months could free up substantial cash.

• Quote:
  Jill: “While this feels so overwhelming... she still has $1,500 a month to figure out—do I want to debt snowball it? Do I want to debt avalanche it? There is flexibility here.” ([17:27])

Hope, Habits, and Joy ([19:00]–[21:31])

• Jen: “Cut to the bare bones, but we're not depriving ourselves... Figure out what brings you joy... making this sustainable so you can see it through.” ([19:00])

• The plan: Pay off credit cards and collections in 18 months, then build emergency savings—reinforced as solid and achievable.

Key Takeaway

• Jill (to listener): “You're not cooked—you’re sizzling, but not entirely cooked.” ([20:46])

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2. Story #2: "I Feel Like I’m Actually Drowning" – Payday Loan Spiral ([23:41]–[39:24])

The Reddit Post

• The Situation:
  • Took payday loans for apartment and car deposit after not saving up.
  • Three high-interest loans, egregious terms (e.g. $2,000 loan, $429 biweekly payment).
  • Feels trapped and considers missing payments to “save up a bit.”
  • Earns ~$3,000/month, rent is $1,053.

Reality of Predatory Lending ([25:06]–[26:09])

• Jill: “This... is predatory. Like it doesn't just feel predatory, it is predatory... [in payday loans] you’re paying so much more money to have borrowed that $2,000.” ([25:06])

Scorched Earth Solutions ([26:09]–[33:50])

• Jen: “Go scorched earth” to kill high-interest debt as quickly as possible.

  • Second job doesn’t have to be traditional—a side gig can flex around a 9-5.
  • List of ideas: Pet sitting, Amazon Flex, Instacart, flexible commission-based work.

• Jill: “When we’re not just paycheck to paycheck, but we are overdrafting every single month, that scorched earth [approach] is needed... Not to be alarmist, but you are essentially drowning, and you need to find that air.” ([28:04])

• Core advice:

  • Don’t miss payments—even to save—because interest and fees compound “digging you deeper.”
  • Pay off payday loans and high-interest credit cards ASAP, then build savings to avoid repeating the cycle.

Community, Charity, and Alternatives ([33:50]–[40:33])

• Jill: “Avoid payday loans at all costs. But what’s the alternative? What happens when I don’t have the money?” ([33:50])

• Suggestions:

  • Lean into community resources: food banks, social services, local charities.
  • Take out personal loans, never payday loans—lower interest and less predatory.
  • Recognize that seeking help isn’t glamorous, but is sometimes necessary as an adult.

• Jen: “You have to put yourself in a financial position where you can do this bare minimum stuff because that is what is expected of us as adults.” ([38:41])

• On mindset:

  • Let the anger at the situation fuel action, not defeat.
  • A 3-month “scorched earth” sprint is often enough to reset habits and spending.

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3. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

"I am bigger than my debt"

• Jen ([04:07]):
  “I am not as small as I think I am. I am not as incapable as I think I am. And it was this awakening for me... I am more powerful than I give myself credit for.”

On Making Quick Wins

• Jen ([13:59]):
  “We were getting those quick wins... That helped with the psychological part while also playing into the advantages of paying off higher interest.”

About Joy and Spending

• Jen ([19:00]):
  “Reconnecting with yourself and figuring out—what do I love spending money on and what have I grown out of loving spending money on? ...can make this feel sustainable.”

On Avoiding Payday Loan Traps

• Jill ([25:06]):
  “By the end of it, they’re paying so much more money to have borrowed that $2,000... it is not worth it.”

"Nobody is coming to save us"

• Jen ([29:54]):
  “We are the only people who can save us, essentially. And that sounds very dire, but in cases like this, it is us. Like, nobody is coming, nobody's coming to save us.”

The "Lightning Round" – Reflections on Early Finances ([46:00]–[54:56])

• Jill ([46:27]):
  “All you have is, ‘I’m broke. All I've known is broke. All I've known is debt. I don't feel that skilled at what I'm doing. How will this ever change?’”
• Jen ([47:59]):
  “When I was starting out in my 20s, I was like, I will not make more money. This is it. This is the profession I have chosen and there is no growth beyond this.”
• Jill ([48:20]):
  “Unpopular opinion: Life is long. ...You can reimagine yourself so many times.”
• Jen ([49:09]):
  “Don’t let your 18-year-old self or your 22-year-old self dictate what you do the rest of your life.”

Nuggets of Podcast Wisdom

• Jen ([53:55]):
  “Take the hits now so that you can call the shots later. Because if you lay down and take it now, it gets harder and harder to get back up.”

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Important Timestamps

• [02:28] – Main story introduction ($96K debt at 23)
• [04:07] – Emotional reactions to debt: “I am more powerful than I give myself credit for.”
• [07:10] – Importance of starting early with retirement savings
• [09:25] – How a small IRA can grow
• [12:38] – Choosing which loans to pay off first
• [14:12] – Budget math and cash flow estimate
• [17:27] – “There is flexibility here.”
• [20:46] – “You’re sizzling but not entirely cooked.”
• [25:06] – Payday loans: The reality and predatory math
• [26:09] – “Go scorched earth”—intense debt payoff
• [29:54] – “Nobody is coming to save us.”
• [33:50] – Life alternatives to predatory loans, community resources
• [38:41] – “You have to put yourself in a financial position... as an adult.”
• [46:00] – Lightning round: Hosts reflect on their financial mindsets at 23
• [53:55] – “Take the hits now, so you can call the shots later.”

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Tone & Style

• Warm, humorous, direct, and empathetic.
• Both hosts share personal stories and struggles as a backdrop for encouragement.
• Rife with relatable metaphors (“monster in the closet of debt,” “scorched earth”), playful ribbing, and moments of real talk.

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Key Takeaways

• Facing your numbers and reaching out for help is the bravest, most productive first step toward financial change.
• Aggressively paying off high-interest debt (especially payday loans and credit cards) should be prioritized—cut ruthlessly but sustainably.
• Community, side hustles, and flexible work can bridge gaps faster than you might think—even small amounts add up.
• It’s possible to recover from even the worst financial setbacks if you harness your anger, reach out for help, and take daily steps.
• Your past doesn’t define your financial future—life is long and full of plot twists.
• Letting go of shame and isolation brings clarity, resources, and resilience.
• As Jen puts it: “Take the hits now so that you can call the shots later.”

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For Listeners:

Whether you’re staring down a monster pile of debt or nursing a financial hangover from “YOLO” decisions, Jen and Jill want you to know that your situation isn’t hopeless, you’re not alone, and you can absolutely write a new financial story—starting with today.

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End of Summary

Transcript

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[Podcast Host Intro]

Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast where you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity and live a rich Here are your hosts, Jen and Jill.

[Jen]

Today we are diving into some wild Reddit Money confessions from the R Personal Finance subreddit and we are looking at how they got into debt and we're going to give some perspective of what we would do if we were in their situation.

[Jill]

I'm loving these threads because behind every financial disaster is usually some relatable moment or bad decision or honestly just being human.

[Jen]

So grab your coffee because this one is going to be equal parts cringe and clarity. Welcome Frugal Friends. I'm Jen. I'm Jill and today we are reading some recent Reddit Money stories from the Personal Finance subreddit and giving our opinions.

[Jill]

I am so stoked on this because these are real people's stories that we can learn from. Yeah, there's a lot going on here, but there are tidbits we can pull out. So this first one is titled Am I cooked? I'm 23 and $96,000 in debt and shares. 23, almost 24. Just secured my first job paying $75,000. I had a bad relationship and was in fight or flight mode where I continuously ignored my finances I feel like my life is over. Living at home now and then gives a rundown of all of the finances. So here's what we got. Total open balances, $96,188.

[Jen]

That is a big number to look at.

[Jill]

It's not six figures, but it is real close.

[Jen]

It could get there real close. It could get there real fast with how much credit card debt is here.

[Jill]

So here's the breakdown. $20,574 is credit card debt. So $6,486 is collections. $32,486 student loans. And then makes a note more, soon I'm getting my MBA, $0 other loans. I think she just put that in there to be like. But Otherwise nothing else. $36,642 in auto loans, no home loan. And then $3,518 IRA, no savings. All right, yeah, we won't worry about that.

[Jen]

There's an edit, but then we'll get into that later. So the first thing I think about when I read something like this, I remember being 23 and feeling like this about my $50,000 student loan. Because when you're that age, 23 is so young, but you are an adult and everything is on you and everything just feels more massive. Like I felt with just $50,000 in student loan debt. And I didn't even make that in a year, which is her. You know, she's got $75,000 in income, you know, pre tax, which is a great income, but she has more debt than she makes in a year. And thinking, I cannot pay this off, I am going to have to declare bankruptcy. There is no way I can do this. It's too big and I am too small. And that is a common feeling in your 20s. Honestly, it can be a common feeling at any point in your life when you're dealing with debt. It's too big and I'm too small. And I really didn't feel this until we got into paying off debt. This feeling that I am I sounds weird, but like I am bigger. Like I am not as small as I think I am. I am not as incapable as I think I am. And it was this awakening for me that has carried over into other parts of my life that I am more powerful than I give myself credit for.

[Jill]

It's so hard to forge a new narrative when you don't know that reality yet. You have none of those experiences. You only have the experience of accumulating debt. You don't have any version of track record to go back to and be able to say no, but look at everything that I've been able to do in the past. I mean, we could look at other types of accomplishments. Certainly if you're in your early 20s, that can be really hard to do. And I think that's what can make it feel so massive, is you don't yet know what your full potential is. You don't yet know what you might be making in the future. The things that you can and are capable of accomplishing. But we won't know those things unless we start to try for it. And if we can hear some of these voices that actually this is a big number and it is more than what you make in a year. But for me, looking at this, coming from my own debt payoff experience, having talked about personal finance for so long, like, this is tackleable. That's not a word. But it's. This is possible.

[Jen]

Tackleable.

[Jill]

Yeah.

[Jen]

Put it on a shirt.

[Jill]

I can tackle this. It's tackle.

[Jen]

Tackleable. Yeah.

[Jill]

Because here's what's going good. And this is where I always want to. I want to start with myself. I want to start with other people. What's going well. And this person has a lot going well for them. First of all. Yeah, they have a Roth ira. That is a lot more than many people can say.

[Jen]

Amen.

[Jill]

Especially at that age. Because a Roth IRA isn't something that your work is giving to you. This is something that she had to sign up for and contribute to into, which is really incredible. So well done. Even if she put nothing more into that, which she should. But that's going to grow. She has something put towards retirement.

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[Jill]

She's tackling it now. 23, sure. Almost 24. But willing to look at it so much to the point where she wrote down the numbers. Honestly, that's the hardest part. When we know we've got a big, scary, hairy monster in the closet of debt. Looking at it, getting the real numbers, writing it down is one of the most difficult steps in that process. She's already passed the difficulty. She wrote it down and she told people about it, like put it out there publicly. That's huge.

[Jen]

Asking for help, asking for advice. It's underrated.

[Jill]

Well done. Ended a bad relationship. She goes on further in the comments to describe some of the dynamics in this relationship and it was not good. And so for her to have gotten out of that relationship, begin to identify what are the red flags there? What do I not want to repeat Again, Wonderful lessons to learn at 23 and well done. Getting out of that relationship at 23.

[Jen]

Especially, we feel like we need to have learned everything we need, everything we needed to know, we should have learned in high school and college. And now we're adults and we need to be at the level of adulting that people have been at for, you know, 10, 20, 30 years. And it's just not true. But I do agree that she's almost 24 and she is in such a good place and this debt can be overwhelming. So. And I did the math. Even if she didn't invest another penny in that Roth IRA at a 7% annual return, she'd have almost. She'd have over $52,000 by the time retirement happens. Yeah. In 40 years.

[Jill]

Yeah. So you can't retire on that. But like $3,500 turns into $52,000. That's crazy.

[Jen]

So. Yeah. So that's something she doesn't have to worry about for a few years while she gets this under control. So let's look at.

[Jill]

I mean, she's also making a good housing decision and she's got a great job.

[Jen]

Yes.

[Jill]

So she's got a lot. $75,000 is annually more than the median income in America, like $15,000 more. So there's a lot going well here. So let's talk about the actual.

[Jen]

Yeah. So we've got credit cards collections, student loans and auto loans. Those are the four loans that we are looking at. And we don't know specific percentages, but we can probably infer that credit cards are going to be the highest, followed potentially collections. Depending on what's in collections, it may not have any interest, we don't know. But they do hurt our credit score and will make it harder to get loans in the future. And those loans will be at a higher interest rate. So we do want to prioritize those. Followed by auto loan, potentially then followed by student loan. And then she's going to be getting her mba, which will potentially increase her income. Not every master's will increase your income, but an MBA is one of those graduate degrees that potentially has probably the best option. One of the best options, too. So if I was looking at $96,000 of debt, first thing I would do is I would tell you about the book. The One Thing which changed my life. It changed the way I look at things and changed the way I pursue goals. And so the One Thing is a book by Gary Keller and Jay Papasan, but it can be summed up into this one phrase. What's the one thing that. Which by doing Makes everything else easier or unnecessary, necessary. And what that means is when I'm choosing my goals, I want to choose to work on one goal at a time. And the way I choose that one goal is the one that's going to make the biggest impact on all of my other future goals by either making them easier to achieve or potentially unnecessary to achieve. So for me, that's tackling one debt at a time and getting that off the plate. So we've got four groups of loans. There might be loans in between, but we'll just look at them as a group of four. And I always start with credit cards. They are nine times out of 10, going to be the highest interest. And the higher the interest, the harder it becomes to pursue all other goals because so much of your money is being eaten by interest. And so there is something to be said for the debt snowball, which the debt snowball method is taking the lowest amount of loan, which in this case would be the collections, starting with that, paying that off as fast as possible, and then going to the next one, which then would be the credit cards. But if the collections aren't like bearing any interest, potentially, I don't know, then the credit cards are going to have so much interest that it's going to be easier to meet the other goals because of that, especially because this one's so high. Now, debt avalanche starts with the highest interest and then goes down to the lowest interest. That doesn't do well with our brain psychologically because we want to see quick wins immediately. And so then what I do kind of to trick my brain is in our student loans. We had different student loans in each of that. It was one big student loan, but every semester had student loan. So what we did is arbitrarily. We just worked off of each semester's grouping. It didn't change anything overall. But we were getting those quick wins.

[Jill]

Seeing those spring 2018.

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[Jen]

So that helped with the psychological part while also playing into the advantages of paying off higher interest.

[Jill]

Yeah, the thing that stood out to me. So I kind of ran some of the math to really see what is possible here because, okay, looking at the numbers of what we owe is only one part of the equation. We also have to look at what is my current financial situation and how am I spending money. How dire is this really? So imagining that she's in kind of like a middle taxable state. So we don't exactly know, but we can imagine that this person probably brings home $4,460 a month take home based on her $75,000 annual salary. So then working off of that, I also ran the numbers on what's the average credit card interest average that she'd pay in collection. Student loans, all of it. So we can imagine based on the numbers given to us, that she's probably paying. Minimum payment on the credit card Debt would be $410. Collections would be $130. This is all per month. 130 per month. Student loans would be about $345 a month. Car loan, she did say in the comments was $933 per month.

[Jen]

Because a lot of people in the comments were like, get rid $36,000. The thing is, is that you and a lot of commenters were saying this too. You don't know to say that until you know what kind of car it is, because used cars are $36,000.

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[Jen]

So my used van that was three years old was $25,000. So can you get less than 36? Yes, but may not make sense. And so but what we found was that it's a Mercedes. So. And I believe that she said she was underwater in it and that was.

[Jill]

Part of the toxic relationship that she was in that kind of led to that decision. Now trying to figure out what to do about it. And paying $500 a month just in insurance on it.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Jill]

So this car is costing her a lot. But even with all of those, all of that debt and then plus that car insurance, that amounts to $2,317 a month, then if we were to do some quick guessing at her other monthly expenses or what she might reasonably pay, she's living for free back home, so all she probably is needing to pay for is phone, food, maybe miscellaneous. So chalk all that up to about $650, give or take. But we're just playing around here. That total monthly amount would be 2,967 dol, which essentially means she's got about $1,500 left over every month. So while this feels so overwhelming, even if she continues to make those minimum payments which will eventually pay off that debt, it won't go on for forever. She still has $1,500 a month to figure out. What do I want to do with this? Do I want to debt snowball it? Do I want to debt avalanche it? There is flexibility here. I know this isn't everybody's situation, but running these numbers makes me even more hopeful. There's a lot going well here that can really tackle this in a real way.

[Jen]

And it looks like she can get out of the car in 18 months. It sounds like it's a lease, but that will give her even more leeway to make more progress. And it's a 500. And so the reason getting out of the car in this case would be good, it's also a $500 per month insurance because it's a luxury car. So if she downgrades to something that's not luxury, it downgrades every cost in general.

[Jill]

I didn't run this, but. So if she only made the minimum payments on the credit card, it would take her nine years to pay off. If she was able to put that extra $1,500 towards that credit card payment, I mean, I could quickly run it, but going to slice that number, like she could very quickly pay off that credit card debt, which would be our recommendation just on paper logistically, because you're probably talking an 18 to 24% interest on that loan. And so that would make a significant difference for her to wipe that out. So for her, that would be our kind of recommendation. And I think she would find herself in a drastically different place. Just a matter of a couple years.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Jill]

Like by the time she's got her mba, she is in a drastically different place.

[Jen]

Yeah. And I think if she can go in and look at her spending and make sure that we're, we're cutting, we're cutting to the bare bones, but we're not depriving ourselves to the point where we're going, yo, yo. Because it is hard when you are 23 and single and everybody you know is going out and doing things and you want to take advantage of that. When I was in my early 20s, I was out every weekend doing stuff, having fun, and we want that for you. So I think it's also about going in and looking at your spending and starting to figure out what are the exposure, what are the things that bring me joy. This relationship sounds like it was super controlling. And so you may not know what brings you joy. If you have been told for years what is supposed to bring you joy. And reconnecting with yourself and figuring out what do I love spending money on and what have I grown out of loving spending money on? And getting those things, maybe without spending as much money can make this feel sustainable so that you can see it through the, through the whole home run.

[Jill]

Okay, here is the math. Assuming that that student loan had 6% interest on it, which maybe it's less even if it had 6%, she put that extra $1,500 a month towards it that student loan would be gone in 10 months, less than a year. That's wild.

[Jen]

Yeah. So hopefully she listens to the episode. Good, good place and I think the main takeaway is creating habits that will make all the advice of the commenters. She she follows up and says edit if you commented. Thank you for your honest advice and kind words. Per one commenter, it is reassuring to know I am sizzling but not entirely cooked. My plan is to work on getting out of my car and into a cheaper option ASAP and have a strict budget for the next 18 months to pay off all credit card debt and collections. Then get a savings account started so I can feel better. And I do think that that is a great plan. Yeah yeah.

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See mintmobile.com okay, next scenario.

[Jen]

All right, this one is titled I Feel like I am actually Drowning. I made the most Irresponsible Financial Decision ever. I need advice. I made the dumbest decision of choosing to take out payday loans instead of saving up, and I completely blew that money. I used half of it for a deposit on my new apartment. The other half I use as a down payment on a car. There's three loans in total, one 2000 with $429 biweekly payments. Last payment due in November, which I effed up and interpreted as monthly instead of biweekly. The other loan was for 1500 with bi weekly payments of 260. Final loan is bi weekly payments of 190. Last payment due in January. The biggest loan though is through Speedy Cash and it honestly feels predatory. I made my payment and my amount went down to 500 just to log in a few days after and see $250 added back to the loan amount. The APR on these loans is an insane amount and I truly feel like I effed myself over. My rent is 1053 $1053 with me making around $3000 monthly depending on my bonus amount. I'm truly debating if I should miss a few payments to save up a bit or what should I do?

[Jill]

Oh, I feel this one. This one does feel feel very overwhelming. This is like drowning and it is predatory. Like it doesn't just feel predatory, it is predatory. And that's what a lot of the commenters say on this one. Again, to start out though, like what is going well here? I think looking at it, having the numbers, reaching out for help, wanting to figure out what's my next best move. Those are good things going in our favor if we can be willing to face these decisions, feel the weight of them. And he's not directly saying this, but I feel it in what's being described. Like I'm never going back. I am never going to do this again because by the end of it they're paying so much More money to have borrowed that $2,000, that $1,500 to just get that loan like it is not worth it.

[Jen]

So this is really the place where we would give advice to go scorched earth because it's a small amount with a really high predatory interest. And so a lot of people in the comments were like, get a second job to pay it off as fast as possible. And I think people when they think second job are thinking of applying for jobs. And they were saying, the opinion was saying in the comments like I'm applying, but it's hard with a 9 to 5. No, that's not what we're talking about when we talk about second jobs. We're talking about pet sitting on Rover, driving for Amazon Flex, delivering groceries with Walmart or Instacart. So this is stuff you can do flexibly. My friend just got a job shopping at Target. So like compiling everybody's like regular Target, like shopping things. And she does it on her own time. So things like that, that pay that are not like almost like commission based, like doing surveys is so sporadic. Don't do it mystery shopping. Like it'll pay for your dinner, but it won't make you extra money. The apps are the things that we're talking about. And there's so many more options than just like Uber or Instacart. Now there are so many options and these are all the ones to be looking into to do up until these are all paid off. And I would say up until you have an emergency fund because obviously you didn't have one. These were good things to spend this money on, right? It's not like you were going taking payday loans to just buy, you know, stuff, right? But we need to have the emergency fund for these good things. That's why we have the emergency fund.

[Jill]

And the reason that we're describing such scorched earth here is because of the math. So he, as they say, takes home $3,000 a month, sometimes more. And I think that's another thing going in their favor. If they can hit those bonuses or can get extra time, whatever that is, make sure that that paycheck is the highest amount possible. But when it comes to all of the total monthly balances of each or what they would owe each month, this does amount to $1,939 a month. So about about 1940 per month is just going to these loans. And so they did list out what their rent is. We don't know about their other expenses. We can assume that they do have other Expenses, they need to eat, they need to be driving around. And so if we assume kind of bare bones expenses, we're probably talking about $2,200 a month between rent, which would bring the monthly total to about $4,100 a month, which would mean he's outspending $1,100. So what's owed and what's coming in do not line up. And when that is the case, when we're not just paycheck to paycheck, but we are overdrafting every single month that scorched earth, not to be alarmist, but this, you are essentially drowning. And you need to find that, that air a little bit. And that air is going to be some extra cash flow, however you can find it, whether it's going for that promotion at work, getting those bonuses, extra hours. Some of these jobs that Jen just listed off will make a huge difference. And then building that emergency fund is so important.

[Jen]

And this is for anyone who feels like they're stuck in a low paying job. Jobs are hard to come by right now. Let's not minimize that. It is hard to find a good paying job. Job layoffs are rampant. It is hard. But instead of having this mindset set where we just like take it laying down and complain about that fact, we need to be doing for ourselves everything we can because we are, we are the only people who can save us, essentially. And that sounds very dire, but in, in cases like this, it is us. Like nobody is coming, nobody's coming to save us. And so having a season of scorched earth, like I don't believe, like my husband and I did scorched earth for like two years to pay off our debt. I don't believe people need to do it that seriously. But having a year, a year could be really healthy. And yes, we can complain about how it shouldn't be this way. Like, like it, it shouldn't have to be this way. And you're right, it shouldn't have to be this way. But that's the way it is right now. And we can, we can complain about it. We should complain about it a little.

[Jill]

Let's find some people to complain about it.

[Jen]

Right? We should be able to complain about it a little. But then we have to get to work. Yeah, then we have to get to work.

[Jill]

I think in this situation too, it is helpful to have that, that specific number of how much more do I have to bring in a month? What can I do to hit that number? And of course we want to cut expenses as much as possible. So certainly if this person is spending more than they need to, if they're going out to eat a lot, if they've got subscription services like we are, we're scorching the earth here. That doesn't mean we still can't have fun because there's plenty of fun things to do. There's plenty of borrowing of things that can happen. We can still hang out with friends. We're not scorching that earth, but we are cutting and then we're identifying. Okay, he probably needs to make an extra $1,000 a month. What needs to be done, even break it down. What does that mean? I need to make weekly. What thing can I do to bring in that amount every single week? I think can help make it a little bit more palatable too. And to be reminding ourselves that, yeah, this isn't going to be for forever. I'm going to dig myself out of this hole. I'm going to get an emergency fund, and then we don't have to be so nutso with it. Then I'm going to have nearly an extra $2,000 a month to decide what I want to do with it. Like in this sit, $3,000 monthly is very reasonable to live off of. It's the fact that nearly $2,000 is being eaten up in loans.

[Jen]

Yeah. Especially with this person's like paying only about $1,000 in rent. A very important question that the OP posed was should I miss a few payments to save up some money? And there was somebody in the comment section that had a very good response to that and essentially is do not miss the payments because the high interest. And this applies to credit cards as well. So if you're looking at credit card debt, this applies to you don't miss the payments in order to save more money in your emergency fund because the high interest will compound and dig you deeper. And they may also have additional fee. They will have additional fees and penalties written into your contract that will dig you even deeper. You need to pay off payday loans, high interest credit cards, as soon as possible to escape the interest, to escape the fees, and then build up savings so that you don't go into these predatory loans again.

[Jill]

Okay, let's take it a step further. We didn't talk about doing this, but I think it's helpful. The situation that got this person here in the first place. I don't have the money for the essential thing that I need. What do I do? And so I think defining essentials, I think food, transportation, some sort of roof over Our heads sometimes. Clearly for him it sounded like it was transportation that got these loans taken out. And I think we will choose some of these options. When it feels like what else can I do? What else can even be done here? Hopefully I'll be able to pay it back. But I've got to respond to this emergency and I feel that deeply we are not being callous to that situation and how dire that feels. But I think the takeaway for me in this is avoid payday loans at all costs. But I think what's the alternative? I think we need to have that conversation of okay, yeah, great, that sounds great, I just won't do that. But what happens when I don't have the money? And certainly I think this is where we need to. If I can offer some solutions, I'd love to hear what you would have to say about this. But where can we gain help and support from our community? So what is available? I don't know what all the situation was for this person or what the need might be. Certainly if it's food, just googling free food in the area that you live in will most assuredly return some sort of food bank place that you can go not just for canned goods, but for hot food. That that's a possibility. When it comes to situations where just money is needed, I think looking into loans is not out of the question, but being aware of what type of interest is going to be charged on those loans.

[Jen]

Yeah. So I think the first and foremost is because if you are going to be moving and you know ahead of time you're going to be moving, then that's the time to really cut your spending to the bare bones so that you can save up for first, last and security deposit. You have to. That's just what you have to do as a renter. If you don't know you're gonna have to be moving and it comes up on you quickly, then leaning into your community for a bit. I say that so sparingly because you're gonna have to find a storage unit for your stuff anyway. So that's going to be money. And then you're also going to spend social capital with whoever is helping you. Hopefully it can be your parents. But if it's coming down to it and you just don't have the money, then that is how things like that. I mean, that's why payday loans exist. But here's the thing, there are so many more loan options available now online that that is where I would go first. I would take out a personal loan first and then because it's going to be closer to, you know, maybe 10 to 15%, typically even less than a credit card if your credit is good. So that is probably where I would go first. I would always stay away from payday loans. Always. They're always going to be predatory. They're always going to be. It's not going to be a scam because it's going to be written in their contract and you're going to have to abide by that contract when you sign it, but the contract's always going to be predatory.

[Jill]

And what type of charity resources exist. I know that that doesn't feel great, but every community does have that, whether it's for transportation or utility bills or rent or whatever the case may be. If you are that strapped, it's that dire, that's what those are for. That's what those resources are for. And so being able to go to your local community center, getting in touch with a social worker, looking up resources yourself online, they can be utilized.

[Jen]

It is not going to be glamorous, absolutely not going to be glamorous. But you have to put yourself in a financial position where you can do this bare minimum stuff because that is what is expected of us as an as adults. And is it always right?

[Quince/Mint Mobile/Chime Advertiser]

No.

[Jill]

Again, do you want to complain about it?

[Jen]

You can complain about it. You should complain about it. And it should make you angry to an extent too. And then let that anger fuel you. I think I've said that before on the podcast. Let the anger fuel you to doing better for yourself.

[Jill]

Yeah.

[Jen]

And I know there's always this element of spending that comes in, is that when we are in stressful situations like that, our capacity for making rational decisions decreases. And so even if we're bare bones, we are going to be making small purchases that are impulsive that we don't really want to make that we will regret. And so being going on this scorched earth kind of season for at least three months, I think you need anything you do, you need to do for at least three months. Unless you're doing like a no spend challenge, that can be like 30 days. But that's a challenge, that's an experiment. But a lifestyle, in order to see changes, needs to be done for three months at least. So going through this scorched earth season can bring you back to this kind of level playing field with your spending and limit some of these impulsive decisions that we make out of emotional stress and strain.

[Jill]

You know what doesn't make me angry, but I'M still fueled by, oh, the.

[Jen]

Bill of the week.

[Podcast Host Intro]

That's right. It's time for the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name is William. Maybe you paid off your mortgage. Maybe your car died and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore. Duck's Bill. Buffalo Bills. Bill Clinton. This is the Bill of the Week.

[Caller Darcy]

Hi Jen and Jill. My name is Darcy and I am calling from Milwaukee, Wisconsin. My bill of the week is that I was decluttering, doing lots and lots of decluttering before my third baby was born. And I came across a couple old gift cards and I went to go look and see how much money I had on it. Well, sure enough, I found a couple of them. One of them was a Barnes and Noble gift card for five dollars. And guess which book I bought using my five dollar gift card. Buy what you love without going broke. I finished it just recently.

[Jen]

Absolutely love it.

[Caller Darcy]

Can't wait to review it online. And yeah, you guys are just so great. I have to thank my mom for pointing me in your direction. To say that you guys have changed my life would be an understatement. You guys have impacted me and the generations to come and I'm just so grateful for your work. Thanks so much.

[Jen]

Wow, Darcy, that's so cool.

[Jill]

Amazing. This is a beautiful bill of the week. I love the hack of finding, digging through gift cards and just seeing, okay, how much do I have on this? How can I make myself a fun, low spend week around these gift cards? And I feel so honored that you chose to spend your $5 Barnes and Noble gift card on our book and that you loved it so much and that you truly feel like this information, this content, is changing your life, which is so true about the decisions that we make with finances like it is is life trajectory stuff. These are some really profound decisions that we're making when it comes to our money. And I'm glad you feel empowered.

[Jen]

I think that we underestimate like, because we're just sitting here on a couch talking about Reddit stories or whatever else we talk about on a weekly basis, social media, whatever, and we do this and you listen to us, but I think we underestimate the impact that we can have in our own lives and the people around us. We are having these conversations with the people around us, then we can impact. Then you can impact the people in your life that don't even listen to Frugal friends. And you can have the same impact on the people around you because like, we are just talking to each other on a couch. That is all we are doing. Well, there's a camera then too and, and a camera. And sometimes we we look at the camera and we pretend it's your face cause it kind of looks like a robot from Wall E. And that is what I pretend who I'm talking to. Anyways, we can all do this and I think we all should be doing this because we deserve it.

[Jill]

If you want to talk to us about your bills, if you've got more bills to share with us and you want it to be public, publicly heard with us on a couch frugalfencepodcast.com Bill whatever you want to share. That's bill related. We can't wait to hear it.

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[Jill]

And now it's time for the lightning round.

[Jen]

Okay, what are how did you feel about your finances at 23? Because it sounds like both of our posters today are definitely young and the way you view finances in your youth is definitely different than the way I feel. I view finances now and will be even different than how I view them in 10 years. Yeah.

[Jill]

I remember feeling so defeated. Just how in the world will this ever be possible? And kind of silly like, ugh, why is this my situation? And why did I agree to pay so much money for some stupid piece of paper? So defeated and then a little bit angry. Because that is usually one of my first emotions is like anger and frustration. And it was more than what I made in a year. And that especially felt really overwhelming. And like I said at the top of the episode, I didn't have any backlog of experience to point to and say, oh, I'll eventually get better at things. I'll eventually be able to make more money. You don't know that. Like you have no, no data points really to look back at and say, okay, this is my situation now. But I've been in places like this before and we're going to rally and we can do xyz. You just don't have that.

[Jen]

Well, yeah. You don't have any frame of reference.

[Quince/Mint Mobile/Chime Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Jill]

So all you have is just, I'm broke. All I've known is broke. All I've known is debt. I don't feel that sk at what I'm doing. How will this ever change? And I truly did just want to like lay down and let, let the thing take over, Just let it happen to me and just give up. It's not what happened, but I felt that way.

[Jen]

And I'm sure you're similar to me in that. Like when I was starting out in my 20s, I was like, I will not make more money. This is it. This is the profession I have chosen and there is no growth beyond this. This I know because I'm looking at people 20 years older than me making this right. Yeah. So like I, I didn't see any other options.

[Jill]

Right. But you know what? Unpopular opinion. Life is long. I don't know. Come at me. It kind of feels that way. I mean, maybe I'll change my tune when I'm in my 60s or 70s, but like you can reimagine yourself so many times. Like you and I have had so many different degrees and not degrees, but yes, degrees that careers choices that we've made. Like you can do so. And I love your quote, you can throw them a plot twist. Even if you got a certain degree, that may not be what you're doing in five years. Oh my gosh, it probably won't be.

[Jen]

Don't let your 18 year old self or your 22 year old self dictate what you do the rest of your life. How much did you know at 18 or 22?

[Jill]

And I knew those two ages.

[Jen]

Yeah. I knew virtually nothing. So I was not gonna let a 22 year old tell me what I'm gonna do the rest of my life, Even if that 22 year old is me.

[Jill]

But it was possible. We moved through the feelings of defeat, overwhelm, and anger. We let the anger fuel us, and we got out of debt. We clawed our way out of debt. Mm. Okay. How about you? What did it feel like to be.

[Jen]

I felt the same way. In my mind. I considered bankruptcy. But then.

[Jill]

Did you know what that meant at the time?

[Jen]

No, you can't discharge student loans. Federal student loans.

[Jill]

I declare bankruptcy.

[Jen]

I stood up and I declared bankruptcy. Nothing happened.

[Jill]

So that's an option. You could do that.

[Jen]

Just stand up and declare it. See, Let me know in the comments if anything different happened for you. But no, I felt the same way. And I chose a profession on purpose that was low paying and I didn't know how to do money or debt.

[Jill]

Yeah.

[Jen]

Nobody. It was taboo to talk about. And my mom had a history of outsourcing parenting to the tv, to. No, to, like, class. She would sign me up for classes.

[Jill]

Oh, okay.

[Jen]

Yeah, like a, you know, like a driving class or a class to learn about my health and my body. Yeah.

[Jill]

Reading between the lines.

[Jen]

Yeah. And so. But she didn't sign me up for a money class.

[Quince/Mint Mobile/Chime Advertiser]

Yes.

[Jen]

And so I had no frame of reference.

[Jill]

Yeah, no, most of us don't.

[Jen]

And so.

[Jill]

And we don't know it's real money when we're signing up for these loans at 18.

[Jen]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

[Jill]

Wait, really? But you actually want me to pay that back?

[Jen]

I was flabbergasted.

[Jill]

Yeah.

[Jen]

And I. I felt very overwhelmed. And I always tell this part of the story. When Travis wanted to pay off debt and I didn't, I was like, I don't want to spend the best years of my life living under a rock. Yeah. That's what I thought I was going to have to do from, you know, 26 to 31 while we paid off our debt. And obviously we were able to do it in two years. And I didn't feel like I was living under a rock. I didn't know what I didn't know. And I'm so thankful that I took a chance to do things that I didn't think I could do out to. To feel bigger. I felt so small, and I stepped out and I gave myself the opportunity to feel Bigger. And it was not an instant thing. It was only looking back on it in hindsight that I realized that's what was happening. I didn't feel it in the moment. And I'm so grateful for that season and what it has taught me. I don't. If I could go back, I wouldn't choose debt again, but I know why it was chosen for me.

[Jill]

You know what the common thread is through all of this and I think is a huge takeaway for this episode is looking at it and talking about it. I think those are the fundamental keys to finding ourselves in a different place, meaning debt free at some point down the road, knowing the numbers and having the courage to share it. I mean, you and I, it's one of the things that formed this friendship was being able to talk about our debt payoff journeys. For these people. I fully believe that they are making great strides because they looked at the numbers and they're asking for support and.

[Jen]

Advice and asking in the right places. We're not talking about it with other people who are just like, yolo, come on, stop.

[Jill]

Me too. Who cares?

[Jen]

The barrels and just let them go and default. Like, just lay down and take it. The other day I was thinking, I had this, like, profound phrase and I was like, I'm going to say this out loud on the podcast. It's not going to sound profound out loud, but in my head it sounds really can't wait. So you can either take the shots now and struggle with them.

[Jill]

What kind of shots? Alcohol or no medical shots.

[Jen]

Just let me finish the phrase.

[Jill]

Okay. Okay. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. Is that. I'm sorry.

[Jen]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jill]

Have you lost it?

[Jen]

Okay, take the hits now. Take the hits now so that you can call the shots later. Because if you lay down and take it now, it gets harder. It gets harder and harder to get back up.

[Jill]

If you call the shots now, you're going to be taking hits later. Taking hits now and later.

[Jen]

Well, no, you can't. Even with all this debt, you can't. You're not calling any shots.

[Jill]

There's no shots.

[Jen]

There's no shots to go. You can take. You can take the hits. Which is in debt payoff and learning all these things about your spending and your earning and making hard decisions and changing, and it's not easy. You will fail. Yeah, you will fail over and over and over and over. Take every fail and stay standing because eventually you will fail less and you will be able to call shots. But if you just lay down and take it now. It gets harder and harder to get back up to be able to take those hits.

[Jill]

There's just a lot of violence happening.

[Jen]

I understand that was what was going on in my head and this is the literal first time I've said it out loud and I regret it as much as I thought I would.

[Jill]

I actually really love it.

[Jen]

There is.

[Jill]

There's a nugget in there. I'm just having fun with it because.

[Jen]

I'm like, let me know.

[Jill]

Are we talking aberrant behavior? Are we talking?

[Jen]

Anyways, thanks for listening and also thank.

[Jill]

You for reading our book where there is some more real good nuggets and you could review it like this one. Valerie 5 stars. When I saw this on an audible sale I knew I had to buy it. Pun not intended. Lol. I admit I have issues with impulsive shopping and just enjoy shopping for shopping style sake a lot of the time. As a psychologist though, I do understand that there are other areas, other reasons for the behavior, and I often work with clients to curtail their spending by looking at the underlying reasons for it. This is exactly what I needed both for myself and for the many clients I work with. Love that Valerie. No, this book may not make you rich, however, it may do something better by quite literally stopping you from going broke. The authors do a fantastic job at making the concepts within both both interesting and accomplishable. I love your use of made up words, something that we all need. After I complete a few more days of zero spending, I may buy the physical book to be able to loan out to others. Love that too Valerie. Definitely worth the read, especially if you've tried other methods to curtail your spending and they haven't worked for you yet.

[Jen]

Oh thank you so much. Valley. That means a lot coming from a psychologist that that the concepts that we talked about were helpful both for the layman and the expert. So if you have read our book, we would so appreciate a review on Amazon. If you haven't, then buywhatyouloovebook.com you can purchase it there. There's also instructions for requesting it at your library if your library doesn't already carry it. And if you do get it from your library, if you could subscribe to the YouTube channel or leave us a rating and review on Spotify or Apple and do that for us as payment for the book, that would be wonderful. If you have gotten it from the library and have not yet subscribed on YouTube, we would definitely take that as payment. Yes?

[Jill]

Oh yeah, absolutely.

[Quince/Mint Mobile/Chime Advertiser]

Payment in full.

[Jill]

We'll keep coming at you. See you next time.

[Jen]

Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sears.

[Jill]

Okay, Jen, I don't know if this question's gonna land, but if you were to have been on Reddit at 23, what. What do you think would be the questions you would have been asking.

[Jen]

Would have sounded something like, am I cooked?

[Jill]

How do I cook?

[Jen]

Yeah, that too. I had some wherewithal about me that was scared to spend money because I knew I was going into a profession where I was not going to make a lot of money and I knew my parents didn't have a lot of money and I knew how stressful it is to not have a high paying job. Yeah. And so I took out as few student loans as I needed to. At one point, I even paid some of my tuition so I could take out less student loans. So I was in a good spot there. I had about $2,000 in credit debt, but I got lucky and I got rear ended in a Starbucks parking lot and I got a $2,000 insurance payout that I used to pay off all my credit card debt in one fell swoop.

[Jill]

There's your post show tip, Right? Get lucky in an accident.

[Jen]

Yep. You know what I. You know what that $2,000 was from? It was from a cruise that I took as like a graduation present to myself. 10 out of 10 would spend again.

[Jill]

High school, graduation, college.

[Jen]

College.

[Jill]

Who did you go with?

[Jen]

Some friends. They all live in Atlanta. So for some friends from college, I.

[Jill]

Actually appreciate that, like 10 out of 10 would go into that debt again. 100 years sometimes. YOLO is a phrase for a reason.

[Jen]

We're not against sometimes in moderation. I'm gonna be honest. 10 out of 10 would put that on the credit card again.

[Jill]

You wouldn't need to now with all of the skills and understanding about prepping and preparing for those things. But at this point in life, that's no skin off your back. And you do have those memories.

[Jen]

It was my college graduation. My loans were still in grace period. My plan was to pay it off before my student loans came due. So I had a plan and it was a feasible plan. I was living at home and. Yeah, so you needed that. I, you know, those are the things you do at 23. I was 23. Yeah. I was 23 when I graduated with my master's. Wow. Wow. So.

[Jill]

And now you're living with the mems.

[Jen]

And living with those mems. Yep. Friend Cruise 2012.