CHEAP OR FRUGAL? 7 Habits That Make You Look CHEAP! | The Dark Side of Frugality

Summary

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Frugal Friends Podcast: "CHEAP OR FRUGAL? 7 Habits That Make You Look CHEAP! | The Dark Side of Frugality"

Hosts: Jen Smith & Jill Sirianni
Date: September 23, 2025
Episode Theme:
The line between being frugal and being cheap is thinner than you think—and sometimes, attempts to save money can backfire, harming your finances, relationships, and reputation. In this episode, Jen and Jill dissect seven common "cheap" habits, highlighting how they differ from healthy frugality and what the real long-term costs can be. The hosts lean into their trademark blend of warmth, tough love, and humor while offering actionable mindsets and tips for conscious, intentional spending.

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Main Themes and Purpose

• Drawing the Line: Clarifying the difference between smart, values-based frugality and behaviors that cross into "cheapness"—especially when they come at someone else’s expense.
• Hidden Costs: Exploring how cheap habits can cost more in relationships, opportunities, and even dollars in the long run.
• Self-Reflection: Encouraging listeners to use a "litmus test" approach to evaluate and adjust their own behaviors, rather than feeling shame.
• Relatable Stories and Laughter: Personal anecdotes, listener stories, and honest confessions highlight the nuance of real-world money choices.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Intro & Philosophy on Frugality vs. Cheapness

• Frugality = Freedom, not embarrassment or deprivation.
  (01:24) Jill: "Frugality is more so about freedom, enjoying the life that you're living, not about embarrassing yourself or other people in public."
• They critique information, not people, and reiterate: "Cheap people are not bad people. Cheapness can just be unhealthy." (03:40, Jen)
• Cheap habits are presented as a spectrum, not a rigid checklist. Self-awareness is crucial (04:16).

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2. Habits That Make You Look Cheap (and Their Hidden Costs)

I. Exploiting Others for Savings

Timestamps: 05:20–09:15

• [Clip from Ramit Sethi]
  (05:20) Ramit: "They expect you to inconvenience yourself so they can save money... They're just trying to spend my money."
• Taking advantage of friends' discounts, shared goods, or resources, especially without reciprocity or gratitude.
• Personal Story: Jen’s husband Travis pushing boundaries on a coffee shop discount—shows how innocent intentions can look self-serving (07:25).

Key Insight: Always ask, "Who is it costing for me to get this deal?" Reciprocity matters.

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II. Skimping on Basic Hygiene

Timestamps: 09:15–11:49

• Reusing items well past their prime (tissues, toothbrushes), cutting corners that can affect health or dignity.
• Relatable Moment: Jill confesses to reusing tissues, likening herself to a grandmother ("I usually sneeze at least two to three times per day...I’ll pick my tissue for the morning..." – 10:43, Jill)
• Jen and Jill both reflect with humor but recognize the boundary: "If they saw other people doing it, they would be like, 'oh, that is gross.'" (10:19, Jen)

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III. Letting Money Obsessively Dictate Your Life

Timestamps: 11:54–13:51

• Every action and thought revolves around saving, to the detriment of social life and mental health.
• Jen: "If you wonder why you don't get invited places and this might be you…It is embarrassing. I am embarrassed for these people sometimes. I have been that person." (12:22)
• Impact: Can lead to relationship strain, guilt, and isolation.

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IV. Self-Righteousness: Treating Cheapness as a Virtue

Timestamps: 13:57–16:46

• [Another Ramit Sethi clip] (14:02) Ramit: "Cost is the first and last thing they always consider…Cheap people rarely recognize the effect they are having on their loved ones."
• Believing you're "better" because you always pick the cheapest path and judging others for their choices.
• Jen: Shares how paying off $78k in debt led her to judge others from a new sense of "virtue," and how toxic that self-righteousness became (16:00).

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V. Embarrassing Public Haggling

Timestamps: 19:46–26:28

• Haggling or demanding discounts in inappropriate places (e.g., chain stores, from frontline retail staff, small businesses).
• Clip: Landscaper offended by clients haggling for labor while spending without question on Amazon. (19:46)
• Jen: "Cheap people only think about goods and services and do not value people." (21:08)
• Story: Jen recounts a customer at the Gap who refused to accept no for an answer and embarrassed his daughter and staff (23:21).
• Jill: Negotiation is fine—when appropriate (car, home)—but unethical or devaluing when directed at individuals just doing their job.

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VI. Poor or No Tipping

Timestamps: 26:35–29:39

• Skimping (or skipping) tips in tip-based industries exploits workers and is "highly devaluing of people." (27:25, Jill)
• Jen: "If it's too expensive to tip, then it's too expensive for you to visit that establishment. You don't get to have the thing and not tip." (26:38)
• They acknowledge the tipping system is broken, but urge listeners not to take it out on individual workers.
• The other extreme—bragging about over-tipping for virtue points—is also called out as self-righteous. (29:43–30:09)

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VII. Getting Burned by Cutting Corners (False Economy)

Timestamps: 30:23–35:23

• Trying to save money by hiring unqualified (but cheap) help, or “DIY-ing” major tasks without the skill or time, often leads to higher costs and wasted time.
• [Story]: Homeowner shuns a $23k roof quote for a “family deal,” ends up spending $27k and weeks of effort because the job was botched. (30:23)
• Jen: "We can be frugal and save money in other places so that we can invest money in big, important places like your roof." (32:44)
• Takeaway: Identify where frugality pays off and where investing for quality/safety is critical.
  Jill: "None of us are totally aware of what's worth the money... We live and we learn." (34:13)

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Memorable Quotes & Notable Moments

• On Reciprocity & Community
  Jill (08:23): "If there’s never, ever reciprocity, if you’re only ever taking, then that’s when a little red flag should be raised..."
• On Identity & Judgment
  Jen (16:00): "I had this self righteousness that stemmed from, 'if I can learn it, why can't you make the same choices I'm making?' ...it caused a lot of judgment and it was really gross looking back on it."
• On Tipping
  Jill (27:25): "If it’s too expensive to tip, then it’s too expensive for you to visit that establishment." Jen (27:38): "It’s just morally reprehensible to believe that you are entitled to perfect service in order to leave a tip."
• On Cutting Corners
  Vince (30:40): "...he’s now looking at closer to $27,000. He’s paid $4,000 more in four weeks more time just because he was being cheap."
• On Learning Balance
  Jill (34:13): "When it comes to clothing decisions, safety decisions for your house—these are some of the things where it’s worth it to invest a little bit more, and maybe cut on your dining out..."

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |--------------------------------------------|---------------| | Intro & episode setup | 01:03–04:37 | | Seven “Cheap” Habits Overview | 05:19–36:44 | | Listener “Bill of the Week” | 37:06–39:28 | | Lightning Round: "A Time I Was Cheap" | 40:18–48:35 | | Closing Thoughts & Book Plug | 48:35–51:44 |

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Lightning Round Highlights: “Times I Was Cheap”

Jen:

• DIY'd home renovations out of necessity, not choice, due to lack of contractors (41:24).
• Stood her ground on an unfair $300 charge for a friend's bridal shower ("Bridal shower is supposed to be at a house...Why me? And nobody told me..." – 41:46)
• Reflects on justification, saying: "Cheapness can be justified and rationalized in ways—these mental gymnastics that are Olympic." (44:14)

Jill:

• Refused to pay for hikes in Switzerland out of resentment for exorbitant pricing – prioritized her own boundaries, even if it meant missing out (45:03–47:58).
• Admits the line between being principled and just being cheap can be blurry ("I could not get out of Switzerland fast enough..." – 48:13)

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Actionable Takeaways

• Practice Reciprocity: Always consider who bears the cost of your savings.
• Respect Other People’s Labor: Don’t haggle unreasonably or tip poorly—value the person, not just the product.
• Invest Where It Counts: Don’t cut corners on critical, quality-of-life purchases (like roofs, cars, health, or safety).
• Check Your Mindset: Are you justifying cheapness as a virtue? Is it making you judgmental or self-righteous?
• Frugality = Living Well: Saving is for something—don’t let the act of saving eclipse your enjoyment, relationships, or health.

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Episode Tone

Warm, candid, self-deprecating, and practical, with honest acknowledgment of personal faults and the funny or awkward sides of trying to save money.

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For Further Listening

• [Next planned episode]: Levels of Wealth—mindset shifts for generosity and abundance
• [Relevant past episode]: Four steps to negotiate your hospital bill (48:35)

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Resources Mentioned

• Jen & Jill’s book: "Buy What You Love Without Going Broke" [buywhatyoulovebook.com]
• Meal Planning Spreadsheets: frugalfriendspodcast.com/mealplanner

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To Join the Conversation

• Share stories about cheap behaviors in the comments (no naming names!)
• Review "Buy What You Love Without Going Broke" on Amazon or share it with friends/family
• Like, subscribe, and comment for more frugal wisdom—free and encouraged, even for the cheap among us!

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Transcript

[Audible Narrator]

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[Jen]

Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast where you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity, and live a richer life. Here are your hosts, Jen and Jill.

Welcome Frugal Friends. I'm Jen. And I'm Jill and you've seen the advice Reuse your tea bags, hoard condiment packets, clip coupons, and here's the truth. Some frugal habits don't actually save you as much as you think. They just make you look cheap.

[Jill]

We've hosted a Frugal Living podcast for six, seven and a half years now. But there are some things that we are just not gonna get down with because we believe that frugality is more so about freedom, enjoying the life that you're living, not about embarrassing yourself or other people in public.

[Jen]

Yeah. So in this episode we are gonna break down seven habits that don't probably don't give you the payoff you think they do. And we're gonna steer clear of the old ones that you've heard and probably some of our recent episodes. And we're gonna talk about why being cheap actually costs you more in the long run. And trust us, you will wanna hear number seven because it's one we see recommended everywhere and we're really excited to dig in to that one.

[Jill]

But first, this episode is brought to you by Hacks. Not to be confused with something mediocre.

[Jen]

Or fraudulent or the HBO show or.

[Jill]

That but rather clever tricks to solve your quickly, like using a post it to clean your keyboard, or placing a wooden spoon on top of a pot to keep the water from boiling over. Or our personal favorite, using a meal planner to optimize your routine. Yeah, they can decrease decision fatigue, cut grocery spending kinda exactly like our meal planning spreadsheet that we created. Yeah, we did that.

[Jen]

What a pivot.

[Jill]

So you could get our meal planner, where you get everything you need to keep your meal planning and prepping organized. There's a favorite recipe tracker, pantry, fridge and freezer trackers, measurement conversion sheet, and our Pride and Joy 1000 meal ideas. You'll also get. Wait, there's more. You'll also get a copy of Jen's book, Meal planning on a budget, absolutely free. The digital version with your purchase of this meal planning spreadsheet. Head to frugalfriendspodcast.com meal planner to check it out. And in YouTube, it's in the description, and there's a code for 30% off.

[Jen]

Mm. All right, so let's preface this before we get into these videos and these habits that we said on a recent episode, and this has stuck with me, that we don't critique people, we critique information. And so cheap people are not bad people. We're not critiquing or making fun of cheap people. But cheapness can be unhealthy.

[Jill]

And this isn't like a checkness, a checklist.

[Jen]

It's not like Katniss Everdeen. You know, the odds will never be in your favor.

[Jill]

It's not a checklist of cheapness. Got there. Doing one of these things doesn't mean you're cheap. Doing six out of seven doesn't mean you're not cheap. But it is a good little litmus test to kind of see, where are we? Where do we need to kind of rein it in? Where are we doing good?

[Jen]

And if you feel like you have been being cheap or maybe somebody in your life been being cheap, then maybe turn them on to our book. Buy what you love without going broke, which teaches people how to spend money intentionally and safely. Safely. Because a lot of cheap behavior comes from insecurity about being in control. So this could help. I can't legally say anything about it. Jill could, but she won't. All right, let's get into it with this first video, and it actually covers three out of our seven points.

[Jill]

Here we go.

[Ramit Sethi]

These are three things that annoy me about cheap people. And mind you, this doesn't apply to every cheap person. Number one is when they try and exploit or take advantage of people for money because it's the most annoying ever, Especially if you know someone like this in real life. Anytime they talk, it's like, oh, can I borrow this? Or can I have this? And they expect you to inconvenience yourself so they can save money. And then they try and Play the victim card. And they'll be like, oh, but I'm just trying to save money. No, you're just trying to spend my money. The next one is the lack of hygiene that some of them have, because you'll see videos where it's like, oh, yeah, like, I reuse tissues, or I've kept the same toothbrush for over a year and a half where I only shower, like, two days a week. And keep your hygiene in check. I get it. You want to save money, but do not sacrifice your own hygiene. And I know people will be like, oh, but you shouldn't care. It's their choice. I should care for people to have, you know, a basic standard of hygiene. That's something everybody should care about. And then the last one is like, how their entire life revolves around saving money. And I understand. It's their life. It's their choice. But when you are with them and you're hanging out with them, and they can't even, like, enjoy the moment because they're calculating, hey, like, you know, I need to save money here. I need to do this. Everything in their life is consumed by saving money, and it's not healthy. I know they'll be like, oh, but my life. It doesn't affect you. Yes, it does. When it comes to being friends or just hanging out with someone when they are only focused on saving money, it's like, oh, my God, I saved, like, a dollar fifty. Who cares?

[Vince]

Or.

[Jen]

Right?

[Ramit Sethi]

Why is that your focus instead of, you know, being in the moment and hanging out with us?

[Jill]

Yeah.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Jill]

Number one is the worst one. I think that if you're being cheap in this way, it's the worst version of being cheap, where you're exploiting or taking advantage of people.

[Jen]

And the rationality to be like, I'm just trying to be responsible with my finances. I'm just trying to save money and not seeing the impact that it has on the people around you. And I have a cheap husband. I'll say it, and he will say it, but I love him. He's my best friend. But I see sometimes when we. So this is a. He will never mind me, like, telling a story about him. So, like, I don't know why I. Like, I'm nervous. I know.

[Jill]

I get what I'm here for. I'm gonna drink my tea while I listen to this.

[Jen]

So I have a friend who works at a coffee shop, and she's like, come anytime, and, you know, get coffee, and, you know, I'll give it to you for free. And Travis didn't know this, but we went to the coffee shop and she gave me a discount on my food and a free coffee. And he's like, oh, well, can we get anything now that he knows that there's a discount? He's like, how much can we get on discount? And she's like, well, I mean, within reason. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. And so he wasn't trying to take advantage of her. Right. That's not what is in his mind. But the focus on, okay, how much can I get? Like, oh, I get a discount, so how much? Like, what's the point? I can take this. You know, what's the furthest point? I can take this. There are some people that can cross that line.

[Jill]

I think that's one of the difficult parts with it, though, is that you're not totally seeing the other person in it. I think that it can be this tendency towards my own self. What can I get? And not thinking about the other person. And that might be if somebody is finding themselves kind of in this first bracket. To always be questioning whenever you get excited about a deal or a discount or something for free, to have your next question be, and who is it costing for me to get this at this price? And that can be a fine line because we love to talk about borrowing from people and trading and sharing skills, But I think if there's never, ever reciprocity, if you're only ever taking, then that's when a little. Little red flag should be raised and we might want to think about others a little bit more.

[Jen]

And I think so. We have an episode. Our next episode coming out is actually about, like, levels of wealth that will help you figure out, like, help kind of change your mindset into a way. It's like, I need to ascend these levels so that I can give more than I take, you know, like, kind of like that. So definitely subscribe if you want to check that one out. But yeah, I think it does come with this reciprocity. You do need to be giving as much, if not more, than what you're receiving in. In all of this free stuff, discount kind of like, ecosystem. And then the next one is just funny, it's hygiene, because we've actually talked about that so several times. Just the hilarity of videos of people, like, doing things to save money. That out on the outside, I think if they saw other people doing it, they would be like, oh, that is. And. And I think even they know it's a little gross.

[Jill]

Yeah.

[Jen]

And they still do it. I Think we all have something like.

[Jill]

Well, for sure. My first thought with this of the whole lacking hygiene is how many people are pursuing frugality in this way? Like, how many people are cheap to this degr. And then when he mentioned the, like, reusing tissues. Like, I do.

[Jen]

That I do when I have a cold and I'm like, I'm using too many tissues.

[Jill]

Yeah.

[Jen]

And I can't make it to the garbage fast enough.

[Jill]

Well, here's the thing. I usually sneeze at least two to three times per day. And then I just need to do a little. A little dab. But that's a whole tissue. So a lot of times I will pick my tissue for the morning and it'll go into the pocket. I should check. Actually, these are. These were just freshly washed. There aren't any tissues in here. But wouldn't that have been amazing? I do that you've got. And how. Everybody knows you sit next to me daily. And I didn't know you had a pocket tissue. Usually.

[Jen]

Yeah. I didn't know you were 80 years old.

[Jill]

You did it. My grandmother did do it. And it's the number one thing I.

[Jen]

Take you go to a thrift store and open a grandmother's sweater and see if you don't find a tissue.

[Jill]

My grandmother always shoved her tissues up her sleeve. She was always wearing a turtleneck, obviously, long sleeve. And the tissues were just up there.

[Jen]

Wow.

[Jill]

She could always just easily pull it out. Me over here. Little hussy with my sleeveless. They gotta go in a pocket.

[Jen]

Okay. We've turned. We're straying from God's light.

[Jill]

Number three is revolving your life around money. So every single single thought, decision, move that you make ties back to money. And this is a tough one for us because, I mean, our whole business is money. And I do like to think about money. But when it's so consuming to that point of it's all anybody even hears from you. And they're just like, I don't even know if I want to invite them because they're just gonna be asking how much it's gonna cost.

[Jen]

I know. Oh, that's the thing. You don't. If you wonder why you don't get invited places and this might be you. Like, it probably is. It is embarrassing. Like, I am embarrassed for these people sometimes. I have been the one people are embarrassed for. Like, I can't say that I haven't. But yeah. And it's also. So while the first one is explicitly exploiting other people, this one is less overt in that you are really truly only focusing on yourself and not how your choices are impacting the lives of people around you. And this is a huge problem in relationships is one person's life revolves around money and the other person feels guilty spending, feels restricted, like they can't spend. And it's not because the person is being intentionally malicious to the other person. They just are not seeing outside of themselves and their value system to value that there is another way to live.

[Jill]

It's also robbing your own self of being able to just be in the moment and enjoy other things when you're so fed. Fixated on cost and money.

[Jen]

And so this one definitely leads into the next point that we have a video for.

[Ramit Sethi]

I can help a lot of people, but I can't help cheap.

[Jen]

Cheap is.

[Ramit Sethi]

Cost is the first and last thing they always consider. So you might come home, you're so happy. Oh my gosh, look at this beautiful thing I got for the kids. How much was that? And it just sucks the life out of every room. Cheap people are obsessed with cost. Cheap people rarely recognize the effect they are having on their loved ones. And cheap people find it very, very difficult to change. They don't want to change. They actually reinterpret their behavior and call it a virtue. Oh, I'm not that I don't need that fancy wine. I'm perfectly happy with this. Well, what if your partner wants one glass of wine?

[Jen]

Yeah. So that I think builds upon in that it is like finding. I think what he said is like believing that your cheapness is a virtue.

[Jill]

That belief that one hit hard. And there's a lot of ways that we can kind of elevate this idea of oh, I'm better because I don't have to spend on that because I have a capsule wardrobe because I spend less than the average person on groceries every month. I mean, and that's. I mean, I'm dipping into other things. I wouldn't say that just because we do that that makes us cheap. But I think when we are becoming self righteous because of it and kind of valuing what we're saving over the life that we're living and how it might be affecting other people is again where there could be a problem. The only bone I have to pick with Ramit is that he says he can't fix cheap. And I can find it very frustrating as well when I encounter these things. And then I can be upset with myself even when I see some of.

[Jen]

This comes one hour with people and you knew you can't fix cheap in one hour.

[Jill]

Yeah, but that isn't to say that if this is you or you have a partner like this that there's no hope either.

[Jen]

Yeah, this has been me before. So when my husband and I were paying off $78,000 of debt in two years, I was learning all this stuff about personal finance that I'd never known and I had this self righteousness that stemmed from if I can learn it and you know, why don't you learn it and do the same thing that I'm doing? Why can't you make the same choices I'm making? And it caused a lot of judgment and it was really gross looking back on it knowing that I looked at a lot of my good friends and had that and nobody wants to feel judged.

[Jill]

It's such a good point though, because I think what you're touching on is the reality of seasons of our life and how there are times where we are more focused on money. If we need to be paying down debt and we want to do it quickly, of course it's going to be more top of mind. Of course you're going to talk with your friends about it and maybe think twice about different purchases. But and I think it's okay to dip into some of this at different points of life, but then good to come back to how has it taken over some of my habits and behaviors and where do I maybe need to shift some of my mindset because I'm not in that place anymore. I don't need to be thinking about whether or not I'm able to buy this coffee and certainly judging somebody else for doing that or not doing that.

[Jen]

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[Jill]

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[Jen]

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[Jill]

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[Jen]

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[Jill]

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[Jen]

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[Jill]

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[Unknown Male Speaker]

You guys ever get secondhand embarrassment? Like sometimes I find myself standing in the doorway of a multimillion dollar house haggling with the homeowner over a $300 a month landscape contract. And I'm sitting there, I'm Ethel, were you arguing and haggling with Amazon when you bought that expensive Pilates setup? Frank, were you haggling with Amazon when you were buying that $550 coffee pot you got on your kitchen counter? I think Amazon could stand to lose a couple bucks. Like me, I can't afford to lose a dollar. Haggle with Amazon.

[Jen]

Oh yes. So this is our next one is embarrassing public haggling. And I think it also draws into like there are some people, some things that they'll haggle on. Haggle. And then some things they won't.

[Jill]

Uh huh, yeah. And I think it has to do with what you value. You will spend exorbitant amounts of money potentially on something that is really important to you that you feel like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's worth the money. But then in other areas, no, I'd rather get it as cheap as possible. And unfortunately a lot of times it's we'll buy the products. But when it comes to Somebody's labor and their service, that's where we're going to haggle them. And a lot of times it's blue collar workers.

[Jen]

It does.

[Jill]

And it's so devaluing.

[Jen]

That is, I think, what it is. It is how you value people, because cheap people only things about goods and services and they do not value people. And so that is why you've got Amazon boxes, you've got all this hoarding. Cheap people. Tell me in the comments, sound off. If you consider yourself a cheap person. You got a hoard. You got a little hoard somewhere, huh? Maybe in your garage.

[Jill]

And here's the thing, cheapness doesn't discriminate. Oftentimes some of the wealthiest, richest people out there can be the most tightwad.

[Jen]

Oh, they will say more often than not.

[Jill]

I think that that's who this, that last video was primarily talking about. And that really gets under my skin and is so. Yeah, it's so embarrassing for the person and so awful for the one receiving some of those different negotiations. And I think that it's really important to be able to value the person who's bringing you the service and recognize that, oh, I can afford this. But what I think happens a lot, especially amongst people who have come into a little bit of wealth, is they're so afraid of being taken advantage of. So when it comes to a product, you kind of know the product that you're getting. You can look at the reviews, you can return it, you decide, I want the product. But when it comes to a service, you might not totally know what am I going to get here? And are they just, do they see my house? Do they see my car? Do they just see me and assume they're just going to hike the price up? There's people who can be just very on guard, which there's nothing inherently wrong with that. But I think that's where get quotes. Let's talk with multiple people and then come back and say, I really want to go with you, but I got other quotes that were for this amount. Is that reasonable? What do you think about that? Like, there's a way to be able to negotiate and we would encourage people to do that, but not at the expense of that person.

[Jen]

I have another story and it doesn't involve Travis this time.

[Jill]

Okay. Phew.

[Jen]

But it is embarrassing public haggling. So I worked at the Gap in college for a little bit and I had someone had an older man come in with his adult daughter and his adult daughter was buying clothes for her kids for back to school and they were buying a ton of clothes, and this guy comes up and he's like, ken, is there any discount you have going on? Like, any unadvertised or whatever? And I was like, no, the only discount like, we have going on is if you get a Gap card, and then you can get, I don't know, maybe like, 10% off your purchase. He wouldn't take that for an answer. He was like, there is something you can do for me, and I'm not leaving here without a discount. And it was such a traumatizing experience for me because there was literally nothing I could do. I was like a store associate. And then even my manager came out and was like, there is literally nothing going on right now. You will not get a discount. And he just kept on and on. And you know what? He left with no discount. He's like, I will not open a credit card. I want to have that discount without opening a credit card. He was convinced he could get that. And I was like, this code will not go through if you don't pay with a Gap card. Like, that's how the code works.

[Jill]

Technology.

[Jen]

Yeah. And he didn't know, like, he would not take that for an agency.

[Jill]

Did he buy the things? Did he leave with all the stuff?

[Jen]

Well, his daughter was mortified, and she bought. I mean, I don't know if she bought it or he bought it or whatever, but it was purchased. All of it was purchased at full price.

[Jill]

And, you know, she's walking away feeling so sad, like, so kind of gross about everything that she bought, too, because her dad doesn't think that it was all worth that amount. And it's just a sad shopping day.

[Jen]

Right. If you wanted a discount so bad, go to a thrift store. The. You'd spend a quarter of what you spent at the Gap.

[Jill]

Yeah.

[Jen]

Like, so there was just so many things. And I had never heard of Dave Ramsey at the time. And I was like, why don't you just get a card and then pay it off and cancel it? I don't. Like, I don't know what to tell. You know what to tell you. But that stuck with me forever. And I will negotiate, but in places.

[Jill]

That are for negotiating, reasonable negotiations.

[Jen]

Yeah. Like car buying, home buying, like, big stuff like that. I don't go to small business owner and haggle with them. Right. Just like this. This is a small business owner. I don't haggle with small business owners. I don't go into the Gap and think that I have the privilege of getting discounts that aren't available to the general public. It's just there is a balance.

[Jill]

Yeah, yeah. Number six is tipping poorly, which wasn't.

[Jen]

In the video but does tie into valuing people.

[Jill]

We don't get down with it. We don't. We tip and we don't tip poorly. Leaving the bare minimum or nothing at all in tip based industries is highly devaluing of people. And I think that we need to factor this into going out. If it's too expensive to tip, then it's too expensive for you to visit that establishment. You don't get to have the thing and not tip. We can have all of our qualms with the way that tipping is right now and the fact that tipping is what creates wages for people, but we don't take it out on the individual. That's a macro level issue that is not gonna be solved in a micro level way by not paying the person serving you.

[Jen]

Yeah. I have my opinions on how billionaires pass off the responsibility to pay people on us through guilting us to tip, but it doesn't mean that I don't do it.

[Jill]

Yeah. So this is how it's set up. So we need to be paying for it.

[Jen]

And that's not like a cheap, that's like a moral issue. This is a cheap issue where your service. And I did find so many videos on this on TikTok. TikTok. I could have like picked from any number but they all had so many X expletives in them that it was just like I don't have time or delete all these. I don't think I. Or would it make sense? So yeah, it is just morally reprehensible to believe that you are entitled to perfect service in order to leave a tip. This is the way dine in restaurants are designed in America. I know they don't tip in Europe, but you are not in Europe. And this is the way they are designed. This is the experience, this is the activity. And like so, so what if it took a little bit of time for your server to refill your drink? Like this is not the Ritz Carlton. You're not having a one on one experience. You're at Chili's, you know, like you have different like expectations at different, like at different restaurant levels.

[Jill]

Now I do think that we can become aware of tipping etiquette because I know that especially since COVID the bar for tipping has just raised more and more and more. What used to be 20% now, now it seems like people are expecting 25%. And so I think that that of course, is a part of this conversation. So giving a reasonable within range tip is great. Like, we are not saying, oh, you have to spend 30% of your bill. I mean, unless you want to. That's great. Everyone's gonna love a little bit of generosity in December.

[Jen]

And it's a great idea.

[Jill]

Fun to be generous.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Jill]

But don't push back by doing the bare minimum.

[Jen]

Yeah. And also like people who say that they're better than everyone by tipping 25 to 30%. That's just as annoying. I'll put that out there too.

[Jill]

How would that be considered? What's the opposite of cheating?

[Jen]

I don't think it has anything to tip. Like, it doesn't actually have anything to do with the people that are serving you either. It's just people want to say, like, I'm better than you.

[Jill]

Self righteous.

[Jen]

Yeah. It's just the same, but opposite. Self righteousness. Yeah, for sure. All right, so our last video is another small business owner.

[Vince]

The worst thing about cheap people is they don't realize that being cheap actually costs you more money down the line. So I have this customer when it comes to roofing, right. I go to him and initially, like, he didn't want to go with my product. Like, you know, a company that we sell, like, something for, I think it's gonna be like, $23,000.

[Jen]

Right.

[Vince]

And he's like, yeah, well, my wife wants to use her brother, who's not a contractor, but he said he could do the work. And. And we're gonna save money this way. And it's cheaper for me just to go do everything myself. Like, hey, man, like, it's gonna be at least close to my cost. You may as well just get it done by us and be done in three, four days versus. You said your wife's brother is gonna take about four weeks to get it done. And he's like, well, come back next weekend. Like, I'll let you know. Come back the next week. Sure enough, half the roof is off. I'm like, bro. So I didn't go knock on his door or nothing. Four weeks later yesterday, he calls me. He's like, hey, Vince. I'm like, hey, what's up? It's like, I was like, I didn't go by because I saw you were already getting done. He's like, well, some things just haven't gone right, and the project's taking longer than I thought. And, you know, I like you, so I was wondering if you could help me out on this. So I stopped by his house. It looks the same as the first time I went four weeks ago is barely part of the roof off. Most of the work isn't done. He's like, yeah, I've already spent $9,000 on materials and spent four weeks. And I've also paid this guy a few thousand dollars, too. Like, can you help me out? I'm like, man, like, I would have saved you money if we did the first time. Turns out, with my price now, plus what he paid, he's now looking at closer to $27,000. He's paid $4,000 more in four weeks. More time just because he was being cheap.

[Jen]

And this is the story of our lives.

[Jill]

This is painful to listen to, but, you know, it happens all the time. Which is number seven, spending more time, taking on more stress just to save a little bit of money. And again, this is another one of those where there's a little bit of a gray area, because doing it yourself, learning skills, problem solving, we're here for that. But taking it to such an extreme where you think you're gonna cut corners and then it ends up costing you more, that's a cheapness we just cannot get down.

[Jen]

We can be frugal and save money in other places so that we can invest money in big, important places like your roof. We just got a shed. Cause the hurricanes last year took out both of our sheds at both of our properties. And so we got one to replace them. And Travis wanted to get a really nice quality steel shed instead of, like, the plastic ones that we'd had. And they're very expensive new. And so he was looking for a used one, so we could just pay the used price and then transport. And it was taking a long time. So long that I was like, it's hurricane season, and we need to have this before a hurricane comes. So if we don't have it by this date, we have to buy new. And that, I felt like, was a good parameter. And actually we did find one used. And then the guy that transported it put it in backwards. And so we're still waiting for him to come by and flip it around so that we can open the door to get inside. So, like, pros and cons, right? I think we saved around $4,000 by doing it this way. But it was a lot, and it was all his time and stress, and he, again, he cheap, so he thrived in that.

[Jill]

Um, but I'm sure for this homeowner, it is lesson learned, right? You know, that that person is kicking themselves, because that's a lot of money to lose out on because they were trying to cut corners. And I think this speaks to learning how to spend well. I think none of us are totally aware of what's worth the money. Where should I be spending? Where should I be cutting to make room for me to buy some of those more quality pieces? And I think that's where we live and we learn. But also we can teach ourselves some of these things as well by podcasts and through books. But certainly when it comes to clothing decisions for your house, safety decisions, these are some of the things where it's worth it to invest a little bit more and maybe cut on your dining out or some more of the luxury purchases, that kind of a thing, so that you're not finding yourself spending actually more than you had hoped for because you just didn't know how to buy things well.

[Jen]

And I think the problem is with like being cheap is sometimes it's almost easier to get those lower cost items more like better quality. And then it's the bigger things that we skimp on. So like I don't want to pay more for the Toyota, I'll pay less for the Jeep. And even though this one is, you know, arguably worse quality than the Toyota and then ultimately we'll have more car problems down the road because I didn't want to, you know, spend an extra couple thousand dollars for the more reliable vehicle.

[Jill]

I love that you actually called out brands there. You know where Jen stands on vehicle qual quality.

[Jen]

Well, this is just a call back to our episode that we did with Hayden on like buying cars. And I mean we asked. Yeah. So if you want to know more about the car brands and he said more that were reliable and unreliable, definitely go watch that episode. But I don't have any personal experience with the Jeep, but I do have personal experience with Toyotas and I can same across the board. Nobody's gonna argue.

[Jill]

No, come at us.

[Jen]

Yeah, come at us in the comments. Okay. Your anti Toyota propaganda.

[Jill]

Do you know what you're absolutely not going to come at us about? I just know it because everybody loves it.

[Jen]

Every and everybody in the comments should be loving it.

[Jill]

The bill of the week. This is the bill about we. This is the bill about me.

[Jen]

That's right. It's time for the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name is William. Maybe you paid off your mortgage. Maybe your car died and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore. Duck Bills, Buffalo Bills, Bill Clinton. This is the bill of the week.

[Grace]

Hi, Jen and Jill. My name is Grace and I'm from Boise, Idaho. I'm calling today because my bill of the Week this week was paying off the final installment of a medical bill that I incurred last year in the summer and it was interest free, which was great, but it's just been super annoying to have to have the auto deduction come out every month. Not that I'm not grateful for the auto deduction because it was a large bill, but yesterday was my birthday and the final installment came out and I was like, wow, what an amazing birthday present.

[Jen]

So I just had to call and share.

[Grace]

I've been waiting for this to happen to call for my first time. Thank you so much for all you do and happy bill of the week.

[Jen]

Bye.

[Jill]

Happy Birthday and Happy Bill of the week.

[Jen]

Woo. By the time we're playing this, your next birthday has probably rolled around. So Happy Birthday, Grace.

[Jill]

This is so exciting when we don't have to pay a bill anymore. And here's hoping that you then decided what you would do with that money. You were used to paying it. This is one of the things that we usually recommend. If you pay something off, you're not paying a bill anymore. Rolling that into retirement, investing or other debt payoff is a great decision with it. Grace, feel free to update us on what you did do with that. And if you all are listening and you have a bill that you want to share, if it has to do with paying off a bill or a bill that you don't mind paying or your name is Bill frugalfriendspodcast.com Bill leave it for us. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. We can get caught up taking life advice from the weirdest places like social media or even reality tv. They can sound so compelling, but it's probably not the best move to be taking direction from parasocial relationships, right?

[Jen]

While these platforms are fun, they're not the same as talking with an actual person who's licensed and trained to truly help. That's where betterhelp comes in. They've been matching people with therapists online for over 10 years with a 4.9 rating from 1.7 million sessions.

[Jill]

Plus, it's easy. With over 30,000 licensed therapists, BetterHelp allows you to find the right match. And if it's not working, you can switch anytime at no extra cost. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of Expertise.

[Jen]

Find the one with BetterHelp, our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com frugal that's betterhelp.com frugal and now.

[Jill]

It'S time for the lightning round.

[Jen]

All right. What is a time you were cheap?

[Jill]

Ooh. Yep. Can't talk about Travis anymore, Jen. Gotta talk about yourself.

[Jen]

I know. So I do. I. So, uh oh. Uh oh. Some of these things were not chosen cheap. Like we did DIY a lot of our home renovations, but we didn't want to. We just like could not find contractors. They are so hard to find in this area. Like we found someone and had him do some work and his work was subpar. And then finally at the end, the last thing we found really good, like contractor, architect, et cetera, et cetera for our really big. But that was at the very end. We had done all this work ourselves that we didn't want to do and saved us a lot of money. But gosh, I don't want to renovate anything ever again. And it's so hard to find people that I don't think I'll ever buy something that needs to be fixed up again because of that.

[Jill]

Yeah.

[Jen]

So, okay. There is one thing that may put me on blast. May put me on no blast.

[Jill]

Let's do it. This is how we get big baby.

[Jen]

Rage bait for you. I make a mad the maid of honor in my best friend's wedding.

[Jill]

Oh yeah, let's do it.

[Jen]

Decided to throw her bridal shower at a venue and then charge all the bridesmaids for the bridal shower. And in my mind I was like, bridal shower is supposed to be at a house. Bridal shower is supposed to be paid for by moms. Why me? And nobody told me.

[Jill]

Uh huh. That's the biggest problem.

[Jen]

Nobody asked me. And so I refused to pay it.

[Jill]

No upfront communication.

[Jen]

And I found out later I was the only one that refused. But I was not the only one who was mad, like extremely upset.

[Jill]

How much was it? How much were they trying to charge you?

[Jen]

I think it was like $300. And here's the thing. I think I. I didn't refuse. I paid $100. That is what I did. I refused to pay the whole thing. 300 for each bridesmaid for a bridal shower. That's not the bachelorette party. That's not all the other things going around the wedding. That was the bridal shower.

[Jill]

But did it require everybody else to then have to pay more because you didn't pay?

[Jen]

I don't know. I was just. And this was one of my closest friends and she still Is one of my friends. Like, this didn't ruin our relationship or anything.

[Jill]

Well, which one? The bride? Cause it's not the bride who did it.

[Jen]

No, the bride didn't. It's the maid of honor.

[Jill]

You're still friends with the maid of honor? Yes. Okay.

[Jen]

And I just was like, no, I'm gonna put this on you because you're delusional and you need this.

[Jill]

And you're still friends with her. She might be listening right now.

[Jen]

I don't think she's listening, but she could be.

[Jill]

You're calling her delusional?

[Jen]

If you are really good friends, your friend can call you out for being delusional.

[Jill]

Yeah, that's true.

[Jen]

And you don't feel offended. And I explained it to her very. Like, we were paying off debt. This wasn't discussed with me. This isn't in my budget. I have. I want to be able to participate in all the other things.

[Jill]

And.

[Jen]

And something has got to give. So this is the thing that has to give. And she realized her delusion.

[Jill]

Yeah.

[Jen]

She's not dumb. So there we go. That was me I'll say, being moral.

[Jill]

And there we go. We all got the justification for why we're better.

[Jen]

Cheapness can be justified and rationalized in ways these mental gymnastics that are Olympic.

[Jill]

Yeah.

[Jen]

How about you?

[Jill]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I've got some mental flips I'm about to do right now for my justification. So one semi recent example was when I was in Switzerland. Eric and I with another couple and hot take. Here we go. We're shooting this lightning round like you're.

[Jen]

Thinking about going to Switzerland.

[Jill]

Make people mad. Hot take. Switzerland is beautiful. Yes, of course I'm never gonna go back. You're never gonna find me in Switzerland.

[Jen]

You didn't tell me good things about Switzerland.

[Jill]

The exorbitant amount of money. And I knew it was gonna be expensive, Right? I prepared. And yet it still was just so heartbreakingly expensive that it just made me mad. I just was getting angry and not enjoying myself because it got to the point where I was like, who does Switzerland think they are? You're not the only ones with the Alps, okay? You're not the only ones with, like, pretty water. Yes, it's beautiful here, but like, ha. How you gonna charge me a hundred dollars when I get one tiny pizza and two tap waters? Okay? Tap water. Not even bottled water. Meanwhile, also, because Switzerland is like amazing and top tier, you can go outside and there are just like fountains of. Of spring water that you can like, fill up your cup outside randomly like, you can walk half a mile there. There's something. Walk another 200 yards, there's another one. So I could have walked outside this restaurant and literally filled up with fresh spring water out of just this, like, rock flowing with fresh water. So I'm thinking tap water is going to be free, right? Because that. That's, like, the one thing that Switzerland gives you for free. Nope. Tap water. They're charging us, like, $7 for. It was insane. That's not even my story. But it is how I'm queuing up my justification for this. So we wanted to find a hike. We go to this area where there is supposed to be tons of hikes, but every single one of them cost money. You couldn't get to the trailhead without paying for a bus or riding a cable car or paying some troll at the beginning of the entrance.

[Jen]

A literal troll. They have literal, non derogatorily.

[Jill]

They're all beautiful, and they're all dressed well, and they're all. No one's actually a troll. And I was just like, no, I am gonna walk around for free. And when I get to the point where someone's gonna try and take my money, I refuse. Refuse. If it. Even if it's $20, I am not paying it. And my poor friend sweet Ashlyn was along for this. And she was also like, I'm so tired of them taking my money constantly for such little things. But she was like, really? If we get there and. And it costs, like, $20, you won't. I was like, keep going. I will wait there for you. It was really meaning just, like, digging my feet.

[Jen]

Very financially conscious. Like, she's not somebody who's gonna overspend.

[Jill]

Like, I think it's very on par. She was, like, questioning everything about traveling with me. Like, I thought we traveled well, but.

[Jen]

So this is where the deal stops.

[Jill]

Yeah, I was. So I could not get out of Switzerland fast enough. Of course they charged me to do that. Oh, you want to go faster? That'll be more money. Okay. Well, if you want more hot takes, like on things like car buying and hospital bills, that's not even a hot take.

[Jen]

That's just a helpful take of the week. If you have a hospital bill, check out our episode that we did with $4 about the steps to negotiate your hospital bills. There's four steps that everyone should take anytime they get a hospital bill to never pay full price. And that is a really good episode to cue up next. And thank you for listening and watching this one. We love reading your comments in the comment section on YouTube go off on cheapness. Tell us if we're wrong. Tell us if being cheap is a virtue and we just don't see it. Or tell us funny stories about your friends who are cheap at your expense or that you witnessed. We love to hear those.

[Jill]

Oh, I'd love to hear a story.

[Jen]

Yeah, don't name names like Jen does like I do. Don't do that. But I'm for sure a second away from getting canceled. But let us know in the comment section. And if you've read our book Buy what yout Love Without Going Broke, which again, I think is the perfect book for people who are airing on the edge of cheapness or might have somebody in their lives who's cheap and may want to spend better. That's the key. They have to want to spend better. But it can be very hard for them. So check out buywhatyoulovebook.com there is even instructions on how to get it from the library for your cheap friends or just for your frugal friends who love the library. And please, if you can leave a review for it on Amazon like this one from Alicia B. It happens to be five stars. And they say for someone who's read just about every self help budgeting, Frugal Living Tips get out of Debt book without finding last results.

[Jill]

Lasting results, probably lasting.

[Jen]

This is the book that will change everything. Jen and Jill are real people with alternative methods of going about how to live frugally without being miserable. Throw what all the gurus have upsold you on and read this book. I think maybe it's away. If you've pinched pennies and attempted to maintain a bare bones lifestyle but have been miserable in the process, this book is for you. If you've tried all the baby steps and all the other methods of creating budgets but still fall short every month, this book is for you. Enough of the guilt and shame from reading yet another self help book that doesn't set realistic goals and leaves you feeling completely hopeless. This book has quickly become one of my top reads of the past decade. Wow.

[Jill]

Decade. Like an entire era.

[Jen]

You've got it. You're not cheap, you got the frugal. And we appreciate you.

[Jill]

Thanks Alicia and thank you all for listening. Thanks for watching. Thanks for reading. If you've engaged with us in any of these ways, please like subscribe, comment, review all the free things. Even if you're cheap. You can do that.

[Jen]

Yes.

[Jill]

See you next time.

[Jen]

Bye. Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni. So we started a TikTok. Because we're posting clips of the episodes to shorts and Instagram. And so I was like, you know, I might as well just start a TikTok. It's just like one more place to post them.

[Jill]

Might as well.

[Jen]

And we posted. I posted a clip from our hobbies episode specifically about books. And book talk came out in force en masse and was basically like, leave us alone.

[Jill]

I loved it, actually. I feel like there's kind of just a fun little rivalry back and forth. Absolutely. They. They're like, they're being serious that they didn't like it, but it was still just very, like, riveting and felt jovial to me that I want to kind of dig in. I think that this is, this is. These are the people you want to be.

[Jen]

A booktok rage bait influencer.

[Jill]

The thing is, I don't. Yeah, I guess I kind of want to rage bait them, but in the way that you want to kind of draw in a stray cat and make them your own. Like, get them to like, you heard it first here.

[Jen]

Jill thinks book talkers are stray cats. And there you go, there's stray cats. And you know what?

[Jill]

They may not push back on that. It might be real.

[Jen]

Yeah, that might not be.

[Jill]

No, they might be like, you see us and they don't, like, say something that, like, upsets them a little bit. We just have this, like, yeah, you live with me and sometimes you scratch my face, but, like, I'll still give you food kind of dynamic. I don't have a cat, but I think that it would be like that.

[Jen]

I don't. I don't either, and I don't think it would be like that. But whatever book talk we are, we're here for you. But we're not here for buying so many books.

[Jill]

Take a couple of them. If you're gonna buy a book, though, buy what you love without going broke.

[Jen]

Buy some books and then rent some books. Yeah, that's all we're saying.

[Jill]

Here's your warm milk.

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[Jen]

Thanks.

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[Jill]

Wherever you go Whatever they get into, from chill time to everyday adventures, Protect your dog from parasites with Cridelio guattro. For full safety information, side effects and warnings, visit credelioquatrolabel.com consult your vet or call 1-888-545-5973. Ask your vet for Cordelia Quatro and visit quattrodog.com.