← Frugal Friends Podcast
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- [00:00]
Kevin Ha
AI is rewriting the business playbook with productivity boosts and faster decision making coming to every industry. If you're not thinking about AI, you can bet your competition is.
- [00:09]
Ryan Seacrest
This is not where you want to.
- [00:11]
Kevin Ha
Drop the ball, but AI requires a.
- [00:13]
Ryan Seacrest
Lot of compute power, and with most.
- [00:14]
Kevin Ha
Cloud platforms, the cost for your AI workloads can spiral. That is, unless you're running on oci. Oracle Cloud Infrastructure this was the cloud.
- [00:23]
Ryan Seacrest
Built for AI, a blazing, fast, enterprise.
- [00:26]
Kevin Ha
Grade platform for your infrastructure, database, apps.
- [00:28]
Ryan Seacrest
And all your AI workloads. OCI costs 50% less than other major.
- [00:33]
Kevin Ha
Hyperscalers for compute, 70% less for storage and 80% less for networking.
- [00:38]
Ryan Seacrest
Thousands of businesses have already scored with.
- [00:40]
Kevin Ha
Oci, including Vodafone, Thomson Reuters and Suno AI.
- [00:44]
Ryan Seacrest
Now the ball's in your court. Right now, Oracle can cut your current cloud bill in half if you move to OCI. Minimum financial commitment and other terms apply.
- [00:52]
Kevin Ha
Offer ends March 31 see if your.
- [00:54]
Ryan Seacrest
Company qualifies for this special offer@oracle.com strategic that's oracle.com strategic hi friend, it's your.
- [01:02]
Paige Desorbo
Inner child calling and they want churros, a new toy and a new adventure. Or maybe five with the bestest besties on Earth. Find your moment at Walt Disney World Resort.
- [01:30]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It's Stock up savings time now through March 25th. Spring in for storewide deals and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible snacks like Outshine Fruit Bars and Ritz Crackers, or sweet treat favorites like Nestle Drumsticks, Nerds, Gummy Clusters and Lindor Chocolates, plus many more. Then clip the offer in our app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more restrictions. Apply. Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details.
- [02:00]
Paige Desorbo
Hey, it's me, Paige Desorbo and I'm so excited to share my new shoe collection at dsw filled with my favorite styles and trends for spring. Because if you know me, you know I'm kind of obsessed with shoes. And by kind of obsessed, I mean head over heels.
- [02:16]
Kevin Ha
You're going to love these shoes.
- [02:18]
Paige Desorbo
So snag super cute styles like cute flats, fun heels and cool sneakers from the Paige Desorvo Collection right now at your DSW store or DSWell episode 494 commuting with an e bike in any weather with Kevin Ha. Welcome to the Frugal Friends Podcast where you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity.
- [02:46]
Ryan Seacrest
And live a richer life.
- [02:49]
Paige Desorbo
Here are your hosts, Jen and Jill. Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen.
- [02:58]
Jen
My name is Jill and I am.
- [02:59]
Paige Desorbo
So, so, so excited for this conversation because, you know, we always talk about the three biggest expenses you have every month are housing, transportation and food. And when we talk about transportation it's always, you know, don't get an auto loan, get a cheap car, save on auto insurance. And the most radical idea could for anyone is usually go down to a one car family. But there is a radical middle in transportation and I truly believe that it's E bikes. But there are so many barriers to entry on it and our friend Kevin smashed them all. So if you want to save money on transportation, you're looking for that radical middle. This is it.
- [03:46]
Jen
This was I just said to you, Jen, a conversation that I just loved being in. I honestly forgot we were recording. I just wanted to know all of the things. Who knew we could talk for 45 minutes about E biking, but we did. And I really think it's going to at least challenge us on the way that we approach transportation. Even if it doesn't mean you're immediately going and getting an E bike. There are still other things we can think about related to this topic. Yeah, but first this is brought to you by getting there. Because sometimes it is about the destination. Whether you rode your bike, walked, ran, scootered, drove, rode the bus arriving. Actually getting there feels great. And speaking of getting there, we want to help you experience more freedom and confidence with your money by teaching the skills of values based spending and budgeting through a five week course that we are currently creating. It's gonna be full of videos, tutorials, templates where we set you up for long term management of all aspects of your finances. So we're looking at the four pillars of frugality and money from time to of course, money, physical space, natural resources, food. We wanna look at space spending and investing. Cover you on all of these bases. Right now it's available for pre order. If we sell enough, if we get enough interest through our pre orders, then we will finish making the course. If we don't, we're gonna refund you your money. This is us just seeing. Do you actually want this? Do you need this? Does this sound like something that is going to be beneficial to you?
- [05:31]
Paige Desorbo
Have you ever complained about the ads in our show and you're like, I wish they would get rid of some of those. This is our proposed solution and it's just something we're trying. We'll see if it doesn't work and you don't wanna buy it and you would rather listen to advertising also. Okay, Totally okay with you on that.
- [05:51]
Jen
Let's remind them of the link.
- [05:53]
Paige Desorbo
It is frugalfriendspodcast.com frugalhome and you can also get the link in the friend letter and you can learn more and pre order the course there. If we sell, we're not saying the number, but if we sell a minimum amount, then we will finish the course and you will get it within a month of purchase. And if we don't within one week of purchase, well, not one week of purchase. One week after presale closes, we're gonna refund everyone.
- [06:24]
Kevin Ha
So.
- [06:25]
Jen
So when it comes to feeling good about your money, we're gonna help you get there.
- [06:30]
Paige Desorbo
We really want to help you get there. And we're just brainstorming ways to do that.
- [06:33]
Jen
Brought to you by getting there.
- [06:35]
Paige Desorbo
Getting there. Okay. So Kevin Ha is the creator of financialpanther.com I met him in 2016. We were both baby bloggers at Fincon and he's written about personal finance and financial independence. But what I have found most fascinating about Kevin is he is a like primary transportation mode is E bike. He has two young children. He lives in Minnesota, where it is obviously cold and snowy in the winter, and still primary form of transportation is E bike year round, even with his children. And so I wanted to talk to him because we often think in things like this that it is a total all or nothing. And maybe I, you know, I don't get a car and I get a bike instead. And that's a really hard and not always feasible transition. So where do we find the radical middle on transportation? You are most likely not going to be all in like Kevin, but we want him to inspire you to find your radical middle and just kind of expand what you think is possible when it comes to saving on transportation.
- [07:55]
Jen
Mm. Let's get into it. Let's hear from Kevin.
- [08:01]
Paige Desorbo
Kevin, welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. I am so excited to have you here.
- [08:08]
Kevin Ha
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
- [08:10]
Jen
This is such a fun topic. We say that one of our biggest categories of expenses is transportation, and yet we've never really done an episode on alternative forms of transportation. We've done alternative housing solutions and of course, a ton of episodes, episodes on how to save on food. So this one, to get into the nitty gritty on transportation, I am here for it.
- [08:33]
Paige Desorbo
Yes. Okay. So Kevin, take us on the journey. How did you find yourself getting into E bikes and using that as a primary form of Transportation.
- [08:47]
Kevin Ha
Yeah. So I have always been a bike commuter and I used like a regular bike for most of my life, mainly using like bike share bikes, those big heavy ones. And that's how I got to work and back like all year round, even in the winter in Minnesota. And in 2019 I went on like a trip to Dallas and they had these like bike share, like E bike bike shares, like these free floating ones. And, and I used that and I was like, oh my gosh, I can never go back to a regular bike now. And I remember me and my wife were just like biking around all over the city on these like bike share E bikes. And you know, 2019 was still kind of like new for like E bikes. And so as soon as I got back home I was like, I'm definitely getting a bike, an E bike. So I bought an e bike for 1500 bucks, like a rad power bike, which I still have. And that was like my primary mode of transport for a long, long time. Just using that bike to get around. And the 1500 bucks I spent on it definitely saved me. I definitely made my money back for sure because not only was I using that to transport myself get around, but I also used it to do like food deliveries with doordash and Uber eats and stuff, which is kind of like my thing I do. And so I easily paid for the bike, just like doing deliveries and biking around.
- [10:20]
Jen
Oh man. So, so many questions. But I'm going to start here. Did you ever own a vehicle? Do you still also have a vehicle or are you all in on the E bike?
- [10:33]
Kevin Ha
Yeah. So our household is a one car household. We have a electric car that we use as the primary car, but I myself drive that car like once a year maybe. Like I very rarely drive. My wife uses the car to get herself to work because she works pretty far out in the suburbs. Although in the summer she will bike to work too. It's like a 18 mile bike ride and she'll do it on an E bike in like an hour.
- [11:01]
Paige Desorbo
Wow.
- [11:02]
Kevin Ha
So it is possible even for long rides.
- [11:05]
Jen
Right?
- [11:06]
Kevin Ha
But for my. Yeah, so, but for myself, I mainly get around with the E bike and we also have two kids, a four year old and a two year old. And that is our primary mode of transport to and from daycare and just getting around everywhere.
- [11:23]
Paige Desorbo
There's a mom at our elementary school who also E bikes her two kids to school every morning. She says it's about a 30 minute ride and there are a lot of parents doing this with kids.
- [11:37]
Jen
What? Okay, that was Going to be a question a little bit later on, but since we're here, I am so curious to talk about that. How are you putting, where do the kids go?
- [11:50]
Paige Desorbo
Yeah, so let's, yeah, let's talk about some of those barriers. Like first the kids, how do they, from infancy all the way to like your 4 year old, how does that, how do you transport them?
- [12:04]
Kevin Ha
Yeah, so this is a good kind of topic to talk about because, you know, when I started in the E bike world, I didn't have kids when I first got my first bike. And so, you know, when you're riding just like yourself around, it's very easy. Right. You just hop on bike and go. Once I had my first kid, then I had to like figure out what I was going to do. And so when I had one kid I just had a, it was just like a regular E bike and it had a rack on the back that I would put a, like a seat, like a bike seat on it and my son would just go on the back there. We started taking him around on that when he was about one year old because at that time we lived really close to our daycare so I could just walk him there. But then we moved and then I had to start biking him on the back of the bike. So one kid, very easy, stick them on the back of the bike. Once you had two kids, it adds another challenge for that one. I ended up getting this cargo bike and we can talk about cargo bikes because these are like the big game changers. But I got one cargo bike that's called an urban arrow. It's like a front loading bike. It's kind of like a big bucket in the front and both my kids just go in that. Now my youngest kid started going in that bike when he was about five months old because it has like an adapter that you could put like, like a car seat into it. Wow. And like attach it in. And so it was like great having that. And now that they're both a little older, I also got a long tail cargo bike which is like, it's basically just a bike but like twice as long. And two kids can fit on the back of it really easily. And that one kind of is good to ride around in because it rides more like a regular bike. Whereas like the front loader bike kind of takes a little bit of a learning curve to ride because it's a little bit different of a look of a bike. But both bikes, once you're like start riding them, it's really, you like pick.
- [14:07]
Jen
It up real quick and probably so fun for the kids. Talk about a much better way of commuting to and from school or daycare. But so speaking of barriers with that, one of the things that comes to mind for me, and I haven't done any research on this, but I've always been curious about safety laws around this. I mean, I know that this is not unusual for many other countries to pile a bunch of people on a bike or a scooter or a motorcycle. It's just not super common in the States. And also I think we've got a little bit more regulations, especially around carting kids around. What have you run into with that?
- [14:48]
Kevin Ha
Yeah, as far as I know, I. I don't know of any like, rules about how you ride your kids around. Like, you know, I do have like general safety things I do with the kids. Like they put helmets on. And I am very careful when I'm riding and I'm fortunate that I live in a city that has pretty good bike infrastructure for an American city. But you know, in general it's just like, you know, riding a bike, you're not like going like crazy fast or anything. And as long as you're just like kind of an aware rider and you kind of are comfortable, you will. It's like not any more dangerous, I don't think, than driving around a car where, you know, you can get in a crash also.
- [15:35]
Jen
Right. Well, that's been one of my biggest barriers. And my husband and I, we have a car. We are also a one vehicle house households, although it's just the two of us. We don't have any kids, but we also have two scooters, like two Metro, Honda, Metropolitan scooters. So somewhat similar to the E bike. But there are, you know, of course, some differences as far as like where we can park it. But that's been even on the scooter. One of my barriers is just like the safety of the roads. There are certain roads around us that to get from where we live to downtown, you've got like one option and it is a pretty dangerous stretch for about a mile or two. But yeah, I'm curious for you, like, what you found. I'm sure that not every road feels super safe, how you've navigated kind of that safety aspect.
- [16:27]
Kevin Ha
Right. And you know, this is something that kind of takes a little bit of experience to like understand the safest routes to take because you're. You're absolutely right. And that is a barrier is people are nervous riding a bike, especially riding a bike with Their kids. And a lot of it has to do with our cities being kind of, you know, poorly designed so that they force you to drive around. And you know, that is a failure of a city when they make it so that you can't get around safely on a bike or walking or whatever. I do think that most cities even, like, even really car centric cities do have ways to get around. You just have to kind of look and figure out the best routing for you. I use a lot of Google Maps. If I'm like doing a route I'm unfamiliar with and you know, I would like look at the satellite view and try to see like, is there something, you know, some sort of separate path or something here that's makes it as a little safer? Because you're right, I'm not going on like a huge street with my kids. I don't like to go on a huge street by myself even. And so it does take a little bit of practice to figure out your routes that you want to take.
- [17:42]
Paige Desorbo
Yeah, it is, it's a barrier to getting into biking or e biking, but it's a barrier I think we build up bigger in our heads because I'm thinking, I'm like, yeah, I feel unsafe. Personally. I don't have great balance on anything. I got on Travis's E bike and he was like, yeah, I put it on three for you or I put it down to three for you. And I was like, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. And I put it like down to one because I just don't have great balance. But I'm like, we have a trail, we have a bike trail. And an E bike is a bike. So you could just go on the trail and there are no cars on that. So I think it's just we're in the car mindset so you don't have to pay attention to less direct routes or biking lanes and trails. But when you put yourself in the biking mindset, it's like that. See when you see a red Jeep once and then now everybody has a red Jeep. You know, when you see, when you ride the bike now every road, you.
- [18:53]
Jen
Know, opens up to bike free road can be ridden.
- [18:57]
Kevin Ha
Well, no, you know, and you're right about that because I, whenever I'm even like going anywhere, I look for the bike infrastructure, right? I look and see like. And so I'll be like in the burbs and driving somewhere and I'll be like, hey, look, there's like a multi use path right there. You know, it's like something you wouldn't notice if you're not really paying attention to what's around you.
- [19:19]
Paige Desorbo
So true.
- [19:20]
Jen
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- [20:54]
Ryan Seacrest
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- [22:31]
Paige Desorbo
Other like barriers are weather. And I know you live in Minnesota and you bike year round, so what do you do?
- [22:45]
Jen
How, how you, how you, how do you do, how you do that?
- [22:50]
Kevin Ha
Yeah, and this is the weather is a fair thing. So obviously spring, summer, fall, I think everyone can ride. Rain is the worst weather to ride in in my opinion because it's just really hard to keep yourself dry no matter what you wear. So if I had to pick any weather, I think rain is worse than like super cold. For really cold weather here in Minnesota, you know, right now, this morning it was minus 15. Yeah, that, that's really cold.
- [23:28]
Jen
The wheels don't even turn, they're just frozen.
- [23:32]
Paige Desorbo
You just glide along the ice.
- [23:35]
Kevin Ha
So. Yeah, well, so in really cold weather it's all about like the clothing you wear. And especially it's not so much keeping your like body warm as it is keeping like your hands and your neck and your face warm. And so the things that I have, like, I have these things called bar mitts, they're called pogies also that you put on the handlebars of your bike and then your hands kind of just, just go in them basically. So it kind of like makes like a, like a. Yeah, it makes like a glove around the, the handlebars. And I don't understand how. Yeah, these are like a total game changer because I used to just wear like gloves and you know, when you're wearing gloves it's like hard to maneuver and even your hands will still get cold. But with the pogies or the bar mitts, your hands are like just totally warm. I don't really understand how. But I can ride in zero degree weather with no gloves, just my hands in there and I'm totally fine. So that. Yeah. And so that's a huge Game changer. And you'll see a lot of people who ride in the cold have those and then having like, like buff, it's called, or like a baklav balaclava or something. It's like a face. Yeah, yeah.
- [24:52]
Jen
It's kind of like I always wanted the dessert.
- [24:55]
Paige Desorbo
I know, yeah, balaclava.
- [24:59]
Kevin Ha
But that is a big one too, because it covers like your face and your ears and everything and your neck. And if you cover like your hands and your neck and ears, you are not as cold as like, you would think you would be. Because, like, your body itself, you know, can stay warm. And obviously, you know, you put on layers and that kind of stuff. You know, snow pants and stuff like that. But, you know, that's how I do it. And I mean, you know, the way I look at it, like my kids are riding also in 10 degree weather in Minnesota winter, and they're doing fine. And so I think these little kids can do it. I think a lot of people can probably ride in the winter even if it's really cold.
- [25:41]
Paige Desorbo
Yeah, that's crazy. Any, like, advice for riding in the rain? Because maybe you are riding and it's not raining, but you get somewhere and it starts raining and you have to ride back. Like, what do you do?
- [25:54]
Kevin Ha
Yeah. So riding in the rain, if it's. If I'm going somewhere, I have to bring a change of clothes just because I put on the raincoat and everything and there's like these ponchos. I don't have one, but might. Maybe I'll get one. But there are these like, ponchos you can wear too. But right now my thing is I put on a rain jacket and I still get wet and I just have a change of clothes with me for when I get to wherever I'm going.
- [26:22]
Jen
For one other barrier. I'm curious your thoughts for someone who'd be like, okay, but I'm in the suburbs or even a little bit more of a remote area. Is this even something that I should consider? You know, when everything is 10, maybe plus miles away? What would you say to that person?
- [26:44]
Kevin Ha
Yeah. So I think that people in the suburbs under overestimate how far away things are from them. And they underestimate how, like, how. What kind of infrastructure they actually have out there. One of the big advantages with E bikes is you can cover these big distances much faster. Like a mile on an E bike is like five minutes, you know, if you're, if you're biking at like regular E bike speed. And so a three mile ride is like 15 minutes. And if you look at where the things you're going to, like grocery store and whatever, I bet you most of those things are within five miles or, you know, five or three miles. And you know, there's like data from like the government that shows like the car trips people take and like more than half of car trips you'll take are three miles or less. And like almost two thirds of them are five miles or less. And these are all like perfect E bike distances and in the burbs. Like, one of the things that always kind of sucked about manual biking in the burbs is that you're kind of riding sometimes on like really boring stretches. You know, like maybe it's like a sidewalk along like a huge street, but with the E bike you just get through that quickly and so you don't really have to like worry about like being slow moving there. You just fly down the street as fast as you can. So that's what I would think, is that most things are probably closer than you think. And even 10 miles, like 10 miles is kind of pushing the distances of like how far you want to E bike. But if you think about it, even 10 miles, if you're biking like 20 miles per hour on an e bike, 10 miles is like a half hour bike ride, which isn't like a crazy time to bike.
- [28:36]
Paige Desorbo
Yeah.
- [28:37]
Jen
On an E bike, are you keeping up with traffic or are you more so following like bike rules where you're riding on the side people are passing you? What does that generally look like for you?
- [28:49]
Kevin Ha
Yeah, I always stick to like whatever bike infrastructure I can find that's ideally separated, not just like a painted line. So most of the time I'm just going on bike infrastructure that's separated from traffic. Very rarely am I going to be like on the street with like fast moving traffic. You know, if it's like a side street, I'll be on the street. And then I'm just going with any traffic that's going. But if it's like a 50 mile per hour street, I'm not going to ride on that street. I'm gonna like find a side street or I'm gonna go on the sidewalk or hopefully maybe they have like a path or something.
- [29:26]
Jen
Yeah, so we've covered then a lot of barriers. What I'm hearing you say is, yeah, there's an issue or a problem and there's some sort of solution that we could find if we want to. So out of that now that I'm a little bit like more convinced to give This a look a little looksy. Can you talk about some of the savings that you've seen, kind of how this impacts finances?
- [29:52]
Paige Desorbo
Yeah, I'm sure you've done some math I'd love. Yeah, yeah, I'd love to hear that.
- [29:58]
Kevin Ha
Absolutely. So this is one of the things that, you know, if you look at, like, what we spend the most on, it's typically housing, transportation, and food, right? So transportation for most households is the second highest expense. And you can kind of see why. You know, if you have a house, two cars, right? And you look at how much the average car costs these days, it's like an average new car is like $45,000 or something crazy now, right? And if you look at like, the data on how much a car costs to operate for like a year, it's typically like 10,000 to $12,000 a year. You know, if you put in like, insurance, gas, maintenance, depreciation, all that stuff, right? And that's just our cost, not like external costs like pollution and. And all that stuff. So that stuff is, you can see there's like, a lot of money there to be to be spent on transportation. And I think it's kind of interesting because, you know, we, you, you mentioned this. We talk about, like, housing stuff and like, food stuff, and people will like, do all sorts of crazy things to like, reduce those costs, right? And you don't see that much people talking about reducing, like, transportation costs other than like, just driving, like old car driving, you know, a cheaper car, something like that. And so, like, you know, I'll tell people, like, oh, you should like, just try, you know, biking as like, your main mode of transportation. And people will be like, that's crazy, right? Even at the same time, they're like, you know, and I'm like, in the financial independence community, so people will be like, these are people who are trying to like, retire at like 35 years old. And then I'll tell them, like, hey, why don't you bike everywhere? They'll be like, that's impossible to do.
- [31:40]
Jen
At 35 is possible.
- [31:42]
Paige Desorbo
I'd rather live on beans and rice, right?
- [31:45]
Kevin Ha
And I don't know why that is, but, you know, if you look at just like the general savings right there, right? So if you're looking at 10,000 or $12,000 a year for a car, right? And you have two cars, I mean, you're looking at, you know, 20, $20,000 a year, $24,000 a year. But like, if you can replace even one of those cars, right? So you save yourself 10 or $12,000 a year. And that money, instead of spending on a car, you were invested or something. I mean, over the course of 30 years, that's like a million dollars. And if, you know, if you, like, invest in, you have, like, you know, pretty normal return. And, you know, if you think about how long most people drive, most of us drive for more than 30 years. We probably drive for 50 years or something. So that could be literally millions of dollars that you can save and invest if you, you know, put it to work on that. And meanwhile, like a bike, the maintenance cost of a bike is pretty much nothing. Like, for E bike, the cost of, like, the electricity for the battery is like 25 cents. Like, it's like. It's like a couple of bucks a year. It's literally like nothing. Um, and, you know, the maintenance itself on the bike is not very expensive. It's, you know, you know, fixing flat tires, replacing some parts. These kind of things is maybe hundreds of dollars a year, you know, for these kind of things.
- [33:12]
Paige Desorbo
And much easier to YouTube those solutions than to YouTube the fixes on a car.
- [33:18]
Kevin Ha
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Like, you know, flat tires and stuff. People, you can do it yourself. Like, I don't do it myself because I just, like, am so slow and horrible at doing it. So I always bring it in. But, I mean, I bring it in, I get flat change. It's like 20 bucks, right? And it takes them half an hour. So it. Yeah, so that's kind of some big savings there. And then, you know, the cost of an E bike, obviously, is way less than the cost of a. Of a car. I mean, you look at even buying like a. Like, if you buy like a regular E bike for like a thousand bucks or something or. You said you had an E bike that was like, only 500 bucks.
- [33:56]
Paige Desorbo
Well, he got it on Facebook. Marketplace. It's a. It was originally a 1500 dollars e bike that he got for 500. And that was the allure of buying it. He got a great deal on it.
- [34:07]
Kevin Ha
And that is a great deal. And think about that. I mean, he could literally buy like, 10 new bikes every year for the cost of a. One of what it costs to keep a car going if he wanted to, man.
- [34:22]
Jen
Not to mention, like. So as I mentioned, we have scooters and we kind of like, hack our transportation in that way. But one of the downsides for us where we live with the scooter is still needing to pay for parking. Whereas the benefit of something like an E bike, it gets you there faster than even Just biking does, but you still get all of the benefits of it just being a bike. Like, for us, a scooter doesn't count like that. I can't just park it next to the bikes. And there are no scooter or motorcycle parking, so it's. And you need to pay per scooter. Like, you can't park two scooters in one spot and just pay for one spot.
- [34:58]
Paige Desorbo
And you have to renew the registration every year, right?
- [35:01]
Jen
Yeah. And it. And it takes gas. So there. But again, we can run on one tank of gas for over 100 miles per scooter. So it still is saving us tons on transportation. But this is definitely some strong benefits to the E bike kind of that, like, even more radical middle of. Yeah, yeah. Saving on transportation.
- [35:23]
Paige Desorbo
Something else I've been interested in is you do a lot of, like, UberEats and like, food delivery on your bike. I'd love to hear about that. And do you feel like using the E bike gives you an advantage over cars? Like, you can get to places that others can't or. Or be faster or. Just tell me about all of that.
- [35:46]
Kevin Ha
Yeah. So for sure, in a city, like, I live in a city, and I think that I'm definitely faster than people who are in a car because I don't have to worry about parking and traffic or anything like that. And then just from like, a delivery, just from like a money standpoint, it cost me nothing pretty much to operate my E bike. And so I'm making more when I'm doing the deliveries, and it makes it a little easier for me to. I do something when I'm doing food deliveries. I, like, do, like, multiple deliveries at once. It's called multi apping. So I can, like, instead of doing one delivery, I'll do like, two or three using, like, different apps. And it's much easier with the E bike because I don't have to worry about parking or traffic. So it's like I can get from place to place a lot faster. And like, from food delivery standpoint, if you think about where, like, restaurants tend to be, they usually tend to be in, like, dense downtown areas where parking is difficult and traffic is heavy. And so the E bike just has a huge advantage in, like, being able to hang out in, like, these downtown areas and get a lot of deliveries.
- [36:55]
Jen
When you're hopping on, hopping off, do you have to be concerned about theft? Are you locking it up every single time?
- [37:02]
Kevin Ha
Yeah. So I. So it depends where I am and how much I trust the place most of the time. If I can see it from the. From the restaurant, like, like through the window, then I won't lock it up because I'm usually just in and out in, like, a few seconds. But if it is someplace that like. Like, if I'm in certain places, downtown, for example, I'm not going to leave the bike outside for even a second. So then I will lock it up. Or a lot of times restaurants, I'll kind of like, wheel it in to, like, the little entryway area and just put it in there.
- [37:37]
Jen
Oh, yeah. Nice.
- [37:38]
Kevin Ha
You know, like kind of the foyer part. And no one ever really cares.
- [37:43]
Jen
So again, where there's a will, there's a way. One other potential benefit I'm curious to hear your perspective on is just the way that e. Biking most places shifts kind of lifestyle. So I'm thinking about if you're talking going to the grocery store or even taking your kids places that you just don't have the opportunity to carry as much, which there probably are pros and cons to that. But I'm curious about the pros, like the money savings or the ways that it shifted grocery shopping for you or simplified your life to. Whatever we can carry on the bike is what we can bring.
- [38:24]
Kevin Ha
Yeah. So, you know, so I do definitely stick to places that are, like, closer, which is kind of nice, you know, so it's very easy for us to get to, like, the park and stuff like that, you know, in the playground stuff, because we can just. I don't have to, like, load them into the car and, like, buckle him in. I can just like, throw them on the bike and we're off, and then, you know, we just pull right up to the. To the playground and. And that's it. So that kind of. It does kind of shrink our world a little bit, which I think is good. I think a lot of us drive too far to places like, you know, like, we don't need to be going, like, to the other side of town for everything. So that's one thing. As far as, like, carrying things, I still carry a lot of stuff because we have that cargo bike, and so I do my Costco runs on that cargo bike.
- [39:20]
Jen
No, here I'm thinking, of course you're not doing Costco on the bike.
- [39:24]
Kevin Ha
Whoa.
- [39:24]
Jen
What?
- [39:25]
Kevin Ha
I. Yeah, I do Costco runs. My Costco is three miles from my house, and it's all bike path to get there. The bike parking is right outside the front door. So. Which is great. I never have to worry about, like. Cause you know how Costco parking lots.
- [39:41]
Jen
Are Kind of small and dangerous.
- [39:45]
Kevin Ha
Yeah, I never have to worry about that. I just bike right up to the Costco, pull up to the front, lock my bike, and I'm in and I'll buy like $300 worth of Costco stuff. It's because, it's, it's mainly because this one bike I have, the cargo box bike is like I can fit so much stuff in it.
- [40:05]
Jen
I want to know how many people are waiting for you outside, just video recording you loading up your Costco haul on your E bike.
- [40:13]
Kevin Ha
Yeah, people, people do it now. Yeah, I filmed it some like to put on Instagram and stuff so I can share a link or something. You want to see what? Yeah, but yeah, that's how I do it. And then, you know, we'll usually if we do like a Costco trip with the kids, we'll take like two bikes and the kids will go on the, the other bike on the way back.
- [40:35]
Paige Desorbo
Nice.
- [40:35]
Kevin Ha
And then I'll just use the one bike to load it up with stuff.
- [40:39]
Paige Desorbo
So last, last question. Tell us a little bit about the types, like the difference between the E bike and the cargo bike and the prices and like what to look for, what to avoid.
- [40:51]
Kevin Ha
Yeah, so like a regular E bike, right. You can get them. Like there's a lot of like entry level brands that you can get and they'll be like thousand to $1,500 for like the regular entry level E bike. I think those are great for anyone starting out because I, I like don't think you can lose on that. It's. You're probably going to get your thousand bucks worth from if you use it like as transportation and not just as like a toy. So that's kind of that one. And then when you get to like the cargo bikes, there are like entry level cargo bikes, they're like in the $2,000 range that are like the long tails. And then it can really start getting up and up. So the bike I have, the box bike, it's called an Urbanero, that bike was $7,000, which is obviously a lot of money, like for someone, you know, to hear that. But like when I got that bike, I got it because. Or I got that bike instead of getting a second car. And so if you think about that, that's actually like a really good price for like a car replacement because even if I bought like a cheap used car, I would be probably spending double that, you know, 15, 20 grand.
- [42:11]
Jen
And then maintenance costs aren't clear. The gas.
- [42:15]
Kevin Ha
Right. And so like my, my Urbanero, I Can, you know, maintain it. A couple hundred bucks a year to maintain it. And I don't have to worry about insurance and gas and anything like that. And I use it as like my second vehicle. Essentially, it's like my car for myself. Yeah. So, but it, it's not cheap. And I understand that, like, it's hard to convince yourself when you hear someone say, oh yeah, this bike is seven grand or whatever. But if you think, think of it as a transportation vehicle and not as a toy, then it starts to make a lot more sense. And it's like, it's actually a bargain.
- [42:56]
Paige Desorbo
Yeah. And it's not the first bike you got either. Like, you got acquainted. First you used your regular bike, then you got your fifteen hundred dollar E bike and you worked up to where getting a $7,000 cargo bike made sense.
- [43:13]
Kevin Ha
Right. And that, that's the thing that would have been hard for me to do as my first bike. I have seen people do that. Like, they'll just like jump right into that. I think it's better to just get a entry level bike first and like, see if, if you can do it, like, if it makes sense. And then you can kind of work your way up to better bikes.
- [43:32]
Jen
Because there is a different.
- [43:34]
Kevin Ha
Yeah, there is a difference between like, quality of bikes and. Yeah, like, the more expensive bikes are better.
- [43:40]
Jen
Well, speaking of something. Quality and everyone is the best. You don't have to work your way up to it.
- [43:47]
Paige Desorbo
No barrier.
- [43:48]
Jen
Just dive right in.
- [43:49]
Paige Desorbo
The bill of the week. That's right. It's time for the best minute of your entire week.
- [44:06]
Kevin Ha
Maybe a baby was born and his name is William.
- [44:09]
Ryan Seacrest
Maybe you paid off your mortgage, maybe.
- [44:12]
Paige Desorbo
Your car died and you're happy to.
- [44:14]
Kevin Ha
Not have to pay that bill anymore.
- [44:15]
Paige Desorbo
Duck Bills.
- [44:16]
Ryan Seacrest
Buffalo Bills, Bill Clinton.
- [44:19]
Paige Desorbo
This is the bill of the week, Kevin. Every week we ask our listeners and our guests to share with us their favorite bill for the week. Whether it be financial or physical or person, whatever. We're open, we're flexible. We would love to hear yours.
- [44:41]
Kevin Ha
Yeah, yeah. So it can be like finding a bill. Right. Or like getting money.
- [44:48]
Paige Desorbo
Anything, literally. We leave it vague for that reason. Could be anything.
- [44:53]
Kevin Ha
Yeah, great. Well, yeah, I did have a funny thing happening this week where there's a dog walking app called Wag. And I don't do a lot of dog walking these days with Wag, but the other day I got a thing saying that there was a dog available to walk and it like showed the address as like literally my house. And I was like, what? I was like, it was like it was like it had a circle and it was like on my house. I was like, huh, what? Like this must be like a neighbor. So I was like, I'm just going to do it. It's a 20 minute walk for it was paying 12 bucks. I'll just go for a walk with this dog. And it was for a house just like a block over. So I went over there and walked this dog around the neighborhood and made myself 12 bucks.
- [45:46]
Paige Desorbo
I love you like your side hustling how like you were a lawyer and now you like do all these side hustles and love your life and ride your E bike. You are truly living the dream. I believe. I believe that. So that's awesome.
- [46:11]
Jen
So fun. What a great bill that the $12. It probably wasn't even just about that, but I'm kind of hearing like I'll get out for a walk too. Like there's benefit to me in this, the dream and I'm helping somebod and then I'm you know, getting to buy a burrito later.
- [46:25]
Ryan Seacrest
Yeah.
- [46:26]
Kevin Ha
And I gotta peek inside their house too. You know what's inside house look like.
- [46:35]
Jen
Underrated. Yeah. That is a big part.
- [46:39]
Kevin Ha
I was like, ooh, this is a nice kitchen.
- [46:43]
Jen
If you all listening, have a bill that you want to submit. If it's about a side hustle, if it's about making just a little bit of money but getting a peep on your neighbor, or if it's about making a lot of money and maybe no peeps or your name is Bill and people are peeping on you. Frugalfriendspodcast.com Bill cannot wait to hear it.
- [47:02]
Paige Desorbo
Sail to breathtaking destinations in Alaska or Europe with Disney Cruise Line. Discover where onboard magic meets onshore adventures, where beloved characters. Hiya, pal. Meet alluring landscapes, where Broadway quality shows meet historic cities, where imaginative dining meets amazing wildlife and where exciting experiences await the whole family. Book an adventure filled summer Disney cruise to Alaska or Europe.
- [47:32]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It's stock up savings time now through March 25th. Spring in for storewide deals and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible cleaning items from Charmin, Tide and Downey and dinner essentials from Stouffer's, Digiorno, Arby's and Violife plus many more. Then clip the offer in our app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more restrictions apply. Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details.
- [48:02]
Kevin Ha
Hi, this is Jevon your blinds.com design consultant.
- [48:06]
Paige Desorbo
Oh, wow, A real person.
- [48:07]
Kevin Ha
Yep.
- [48:08]
Jen
I'm here to help with everything from.
- [48:09]
Kevin Ha
Selecting the perfect window treatments to.
- [48:11]
Paige Desorbo
Well, I've got a complicated project.
- [48:15]
Kevin Ha
No problem. We make the complex simple. I can even help schedule a professional measuring install.
- [48:19]
Paige Desorbo
I didn't realize you did that.
- [48:21]
Kevin Ha
We can also send you samples fast and free. Wow.
- [48:24]
Paige Desorbo
I mean, I always thought I needed a designer to come to my home, but scheduling is always a nightmare.
- [48:31]
Kevin Ha
Notwithblinds.com, we're on your schedule. And there's no haggling pressure or hidden fees either.
- [48:36]
Jen
Hmm.
- [48:37]
Kevin Ha
I just might have to do more. Whatever you need. How about you tell me what you had in mind?
- [48:42]
Paige Desorbo
Okay then.
- [48:43]
Kevin Ha
So the first room we're looking at.
- [48:45]
Paige Desorbo
Is for guests coming over, and I'm thinking of something. Blinds.com has covered over 25 million windows.
- [48:51]
Kevin Ha
All backed by a 100% satisfaction guarantee. Shoplines.com now and save up to 45%. Site wide rules and restrictions may have.
- [49:01]
Paige Desorbo
Let's be honest, most of us have a love hate relationship with wired bras. We love the lift, but hate the digging. We love the support, but hate feeling trapped. Well, Nyx just changed everything with Free Flex, a wired bra actually designed to work with your body, not against it. Free Flex features a revolutionary flexible wire that moves when you move, bends when you bend, and keeps everything exactly where you want it. No poking, no stabbing, no constant readjusting, just freedom to move. It also has a demi cup shape for a natural lift with a lower neckline that flatters in everything from V necks to dresses. And because it's from Nyx, it's available in sizes for every body. Experience the first wired bra you'll actually want to wear all day. Visit nyx.com for 15% off your order with Free Flex 15. That's kn ix.com code Free Flex 15 for 15% off nyx.com and now it's.
- [50:02]
Jen
Time for the lightning round.
- [50:08]
Paige Desorbo
All right, this is one we will all answer. Where's the best place you have ever rode a bike? Or e bike? Either in or to? Kevin, you can go first.
- [50:21]
Kevin Ha
The best place?
- [50:23]
Paige Desorbo
Yeah. Either you've rode around or rode to.
- [50:27]
Kevin Ha
Yeah, well, you know, so there's a event here in Minnesota called Campfire. The guy holds it every round, fall or whatever. Right. In the summer. And I have gone twice. And I've spoken there about e bikes too. And I always bike out there. It's like 40 miles going out there. Yeah. I bring two batteries just in case I run out Usually I don't need to switch batteries, but I'll just bring a second one just in case. And this ride is actually really good because even this is like an example of ride which you wouldn't think is possible because it's so far, but there's a bike path that goes all the way out there. So I can go from literally my house to this place that's 40 miles, way, way out in the countryside, and I never have to even interact with traffic the whole way.
- [51:26]
Paige Desorbo
Whoa. When we went to Camp Fi, you would not have wanted to. There is no bike path in Gainesville for that. For that one.
- [51:36]
Jen
Yeah. Highways are the toughest part, too, with that kind of thing, but usually there's a way around it, but.
- [51:43]
Paige Desorbo
And I can't believe there are not more people in the financial independence community e biking after that.
- [51:52]
Kevin Ha
You know, I think I convinced some people, but I always am trying to convince as many people as I can.
- [51:58]
Paige Desorbo
I hope people are convinced after hearing this episode.
- [52:01]
Jen
You are helping to convince me, I hope, for sure.
- [52:05]
Paige Desorbo
Okay. Um, for me, I. So I have only done maybe 20 yards on an e bike in my life. It was an exhilarating experience. But so I will talk about. My favorite bike ride was on the Pinellas trail. We did 20 miles. Like, oh, well, I don't know if that was my favorite now. We also did. Okay, I've changed it mid answer. It was a 20 mile ride through St. Petersburg, again on the Pinellas Trail. But then we transferred to the Skyway Trail midpoint, and we went down to, like, one of the most southern parts of Pinellas county. And we got to see. We were at the water. We got to see the Skyway Bridge. We got to, like, eat our lunch on this fishing pier. And we rode with our friends Jess and Joseph, and we got away from Kai for a day. We didn't have Atlas at that point, but it was just a magical bike ride with friends. I loved that one. That one's my favorite.
- [53:19]
Jen
I love how when you get away from your children, you choose to run or bike. It's like you've got childcare. What are you gonna do with it? I'm gonna run a half marathon. I'm gonna ride my bike 20. 20 miles both ways.
- [53:37]
Paige Desorbo
Oh, yeah. The other story was also we got ri. We got rid of Kai. We got. Kai started, like, daycare, I think. And we. Travis had a day off and we did 20 miles from. From, I think, Dunedin to Tarpon Springs. So that was 10 miles there and then 10 miles back.
- [53:55]
Jen
Good on you. I don't have kids, but I feel like my answer when I've got child nap, I am going to take a nap.
- [54:05]
Paige Desorbo
Our. So my mom is watching the kids this weekend, and Travis and I are like, can you actually watch them not at our house? Because we would like to be at our house without the kids. I think we just want to lay down stuff.
- [54:18]
Jen
Done.
- [54:18]
Paige Desorbo
Yeah. Travis wants to play video games and work on his other. He bought another. I left for a book signing, and four hours later, he calls. He's like, I bought this vintage, like, 1980s Honda motorcycle that's worth like $2,000 for $500.
- [54:37]
Jen
It is really cool, but you need to stop leaving or he needs to stop buying two wheeled vehicles.
- [54:43]
Paige Desorbo
So he wants to work on his bike and play video games. And I'm like, good on ya. I want that for you.
- [54:51]
Jen
Okay. For me. Most recent thing that comes to mind, we rented bikes in Portugal and rode from the city to the beach. And that was idyllic just to be able to take in so much more than you would by car, but be able to get further than we would have on foot. Biking is the radical middle, and we.
- [55:18]
Paige Desorbo
Were with friends, very much the radical middle.
- [55:20]
Jen
Yeah. It was Eric and I and then two friends, and we were just doing our little bells back and forth and stopping along the way to take pictures and just riding to the beach all leisurely. It was awesome. Good memories.
- [55:38]
Paige Desorbo
Oh, my gosh, Kevin, thank you so much for coming on the show. Where can people find more from you if you've convinced them e Bikes are the way?
- [55:50]
Kevin Ha
Yeah. You can check out my blog, financialpanther.com and I also have a YouTube channel, Financial Panther, that I film myself kind of biking around doing food deliveries and stuff. And I'm trying to do more content on biking around with my family and stuff to show people how it's done. But those are the two places to check me out on.
- [56:14]
Jen
Oh, that's awesome. Gotta see you loading up Costco on that bike. That's what we need.
- [56:19]
Paige Desorbo
We need more Costco content.
- [56:23]
Jen
Thank you for being here, Kevin.
- [56:25]
Kevin Ha
Oh, yeah. My last video I made was me taking my Christmas tree back to my house on a cargo bike.
- [56:33]
Jen
Okay. Checking out YouTube now.
- [56:37]
Paige Desorbo
Sold Financial Panther on YouTube and Instagram and dot com.
- [56:44]
Kevin Ha
Yeah.
- [56:45]
Jen
Thanks for being here, Kevin.
- [56:47]
Kevin Ha
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
- [56:53]
Paige Desorbo
Yeah, we were definitely asking questions off the cuff here too, because it was so interesting to hear all of these new things. And I'm just. I'm so glad that we got to share Kevin, with you. And share ebikes with you because I hope maybe it just inspires you to get an E bike and you commit to riding it in summer, spring and fall, and you don't do it in the winter. Or maybe you're in Florida like us, and you choose to do it fall, winter, spring, and not in the summer rainy season. Or you just choose to commit to it every day except on days when it's raining. And then you find an alternative. Like getting creative is what's going to save you more money than just trying to like negotiate your. Your insurance down. Honestly, it's a good, it's a good tip. It can help you. But like getting creative, it's what's really going to drastically move the needle if you need that needle moved.
- [58:02]
Jen
And maybe it's not for forever, but even for a time, if we're working towards certain financial goals. I did the math too, just for us personally, and Kevin is dead on with the amount that owning a vehicle costs year over year. And of course, if you factor in a car payment to that, then until the car is paid off, you're looking at an average of 1715-$17,000 annually paid to a vehicle in all kind of forms, year over year until the car is paid off, and then it's dropping you to about maybe $10,000 a year. But it's not nothing. I think we approach car ownership like, well, you have a car and transportation is covered and that's just not true. Even once you own the car, there's still a good amount of costs associated with it. So wherever we can think about even just decoupling, increasing the amount of cars that we own, driving our cars less. Yeah, certainly considering E biking and maybe even when we're considering where we're buying our next house, how much might we be able to consider? How close are we to public transportation? Or how bikeable is the city? How feasible might it be for me to live closer to my work so that we don't have to have two vehicles? That conversation can come into play. I think sometimes we'll say I'm going to move outside the city so that it's less expensive, but run the numbers on then what you'll pay for transportation and consider. Okay, well, what is the actual trade off here?
- [59:39]
Paige Desorbo
Yeah, what if I lived in the city close to the things I want to be to and opted for an E bike? How much easier is it to then get around in the city? How much more accessible? And I loved what he said about a lot of the times that we are driving too far for things when we are forced to stay in a closer proximity, then we're forced to get to know people in that proximity and I think that is something that is highly undervalued.
- [60:12]
Jen
Agreed.
- [60:13]
Paige Desorbo
So thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a Rating, Review Comment on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. It really does help if you have read our book Buy what yout Love Without Going Broke and you haven't left a rating and review for that on Amazon or Goodreads, we would also hope we would ask that you do that. Kind of like Bonnie Meadows did. Gave us five stars they say Best money book ever. Especially if you tried all other tactics. I have been at the money management game for a while. I'm in my mid-40s, I'm a nurse and make good money. But because of the way I grew up, I never learned how to actually manage money to make it work in my favor. After trying several books and budgeting systems, I know how to make a budget. But again, how do I make it work for me? I knew I needed a behavior change and a new thought process. Most books don't offer a way to change your thoughts, but this book does. This book helps you think about money in a way you have never thought of before, gives you great tools about how to think about money, and helps you define how to identify what your money says you love and what you actually say that you love. Then it helps me figure out how to spend money on the things I love and not on the things right in front of my face. If you love the podcast Frugal Friends, you will love the book even more.
- [61:34]
Jen
Whoa.
- [61:35]
Paige Desorbo
Thank you.
- [61:35]
Jen
Even more. That's amazing. Bonnie Meadows, thanks for such a beautiful review. So kind and encouraging and helpful to other people who might be thinking about reading the book. So if you've not picked up the book, please do so. We we really do believe in it.
- [61:52]
Paige Desorbo
Yeah. Buy what you love book.com there's even instructions on that page on how to request it at your library.
- [62:00]
Jen
Yay. Thanks for listening everybody.
- [62:01]
Paige Desorbo
Bye. Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianna.
- [62:17]
Jen
Yeah, it's making me want to get on my bike more. Just even my regular bike. Although I do love scootering around.
- [62:25]
Paige Desorbo
I have horrible balance. I've stated this, but I can do long bike rides on trails. I what makes me nervous is sidewalks and roads with cars. So it encouraged me that Kevin was not like, oh, you'll just get better and you'll get over it. He's like, no when you're in bike mode, like mindset instead of car mindset, then you look for the roads and you find the roads more easily that are good for biking.
- [62:59]
Jen
Yeah. Yeah. I am curious to like, map out different paths to some of the places that we go.
- [63:05]
Paige Desorbo
Mm. Yeah, it would be interesting. And now that we have an E bike in our home, so if you wanted to try one out, heck yeah. Come over.
- [63:15]
Jen
Yeah.
- [63:16]
Paige Desorbo
So it's, it's a thrill, I bet.
- [63:19]
Jen
Well, I mean, I love our scooter. That's super fun and like, we can keep up with the cars in the city. Like we kind of more ride it like a motorcycle. Like you can't take the bike paths with the scooter, but I prefer to do that when I'm riding with Eric. I've ridden alone a couple of times, but it does feel it's. It is risky. Like it is like I'm riding a motorcycle around and so I wouldn't like.
- [63:44]
Paige Desorbo
To ride a scooter or motorcycle on the road, but I would ride a bike on a bike path.
- [63:49]
Jen
Yeah. Yeah.
- [63:50]
Paige Desorbo
That feels better to me. And you can ride E bikes on bike paths.
- [63:55]
Jen
Yeah. That is cool.
- [63:56]
Paige Desorbo
Yeah, There you go. I think it's the radical middle.
- [63:59]
Jen
Okay, let's do it. Let's get on our bike.
- [64:01]
Ryan Seacrest
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Paige Desorbo
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Jen
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Paige Desorbo
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Jen
Won'T want to miss.
- [65:37]
Ryan Seacrest
Join host Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business, as he welcomes a very special guest, Chairman and CEO of JP Morgan Chase, Jamie Dimon. Hear about the challenges facing small businesses and some of the oh moments Jamie has overcome. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Chase Mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply. J.P. morgan Chase Bank NA Member FDIC Copyright 2025 J.P. morgan Chase & Company.