DIY Financial Plan Part 3: Retirement Planning

Summary

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Frugal Friends Podcast

Episode: DIY Financial Plan Part 3 – Retirement Planning

Hosts: Jen Smith & Jill Sirianni
Release Date: August 11, 2026

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Episode Overview

Part three in the Frugal Friends' DIY Financial Plan series is a deep dive into retirement planning. Jen and Jill demystify the process of planning, saving, and investing for retirement—putting the power in listeners’ hands to DIY their strategy, while clearly outlining when and why you might want to work with a Certified Financial Planner (CFP). The episode pairs practical, approachable financial education with the duo’s signature humor and encouragement, making retirement less intimidating whether you're just starting out or managing six-figure accounts.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Retirement Planning Matters

• Retirement is the main reason many people consult a financial advisor.
• The goal: Empower listeners to make educated, confident retirement plans—DIY style if possible, but know when professional help is key.
• There’s no one-size-fits-all answer—plans are based on best guesses and adaptable principles.

2. How Much Do You Need to Save?

Classic Financial Questions & Guesswork (07:00–09:16)

Jen explains the "three big questions":

1. What will you spend annually in retirement?
2. What will the stock market return during and before retirement?
3. When will you die?

"If you can know when you’re going to die, then we will know how many years from retirement up until you die.” – Jen (07:04)
Tongue-in-cheek, highlighting we have to make educated guesses

Key Insight:

• Retirement spending isn’t a flat figure. It follows a “smile curve”:
  • High spending right after retirement (travel, activities)
  • Lower in mid-years
  • Spikes again for medical care at the end

3. Rules of Thumb for Retirement Savings

(08:07–10:55)

• 25x Rule / 4% Rule: Multiply expected annual spending by 25 for a conservative estimate.
  • E.g., $100,000/year = $2.5 million retirement goal
• 20x Rule: Some research suggests spending drops over retirement; you may be safe using 20x.
• Adjust for inflation and consider your likely spending drop after paying off big expenses (like a mortgage).

“If you think, I need $100,000 annually, you’re going to multiply that by 25 years and 2.5 million is saved.” – Jill (08:41)

"It’s a smile...spending more in the first couple years, goes down, then back up in our last couple years because of medical expenses.” – Jen (07:32)

Individual factors matter:

• Estimating future needs is imprecise; use rules as guidelines.

4. Where to Save for Retirement: Account Types & Priorities

(14:06–18:43)

Account Types:

• Employer-Sponsored Plans: 401(k), 457, 403(b)
• IRAs: Roth and Traditional (spousal IRAs for non-working spouses)
• Important tip: Roll over old employer plans to an IRA when you leave a job for more control and potentially lower fees

“If you’re a stay-at-home parent and your spouse has earned income, you can also have a spousal IRA. And you can have your own.” – Jen (15:59)

Prioritization Order:

1. Contribute to maximize employer match in 401(k) (“It’s compensation—don’t leave it on the table!” – Jill, 17:34)
2. Max out a Roth IRA (limit $7,500 in 2026)
3. If possible, go back to 401(k) or open traditional IRA

High Earners:

• Consider 401(k)/traditional IRA if phased out of Roth IRA due to income

“No one on the Internet can tell you, ‘Roth IRA is the best for you.’ It may not be.” – Jen (19:03)

5. CFPs – When to DIY & When to Get Help

(21:21–25:49)

DIY Is Often Enough:

• If you have >30 years until retirement, less than $100k saved, or aren’t maxing accounts—DIY works!
• There is lots of excellent free info online.

Triggers to Seek a CFP:

• Facing irreversible decisions (e.g., Social Security timing, annuity choices)
• Within 10–15 years of retirement
• Caring for aging parents and/or complex family demands
• Maxing out all accounts and wanting advanced strategies

“If you hated everything we just said, then it might be a trigger for working with a certified financial planner.” – Jill (20:11)

Types of CFP Relationships:

• Consultation only (flat fee): One-time or as-needed advice
• Ongoing asset management (typically 1% assets; Jen and Jill recommend against unless you want true hands-off)

“We want to advise you on how to do it...so that you can save that money and not pay an assets under management fee.” – Jen (21:21)

6. Retirement Investing Basics—Set-It-and-Forget-It

(29:52–33:42)

• Most 401(k)s default to target date funds (“If you don’t want to be bothered, they’re totally fine.” – Jen, 31:36)
• In IRAs, consider index funds: Total Stock Market, S&P 500, Total Bond Market, International stock/bond funds
• Fidelity, Schwab, Vanguard offer strong low-fee options (Fidelity even has zero-fee index funds)

“A favorite among many financial experts are total stock market funds, total bond market funds, total international funds, and total international bond funds.” – Jen (32:12)

Rollover Tip:

• Rolling over an old account doesn’t count toward annual IRA contribution limits

7. Final Encouragements

• Retirement investing ≠ day trading, crypto, or other complex investing
  • Retirement is (and should be) simple, mostly automated, and not speculative
  • Focus on retirement first—don’t get distracted by "shiny" alternative investments

“Retirement can be 101—it can be understandable, you can do it. You are also allowed to seek out consultation and advice for it. But it doesn’t have to be as daunting as maybe we think.” – Jill (29:18)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jen on the Impossible Math of Retirement:

  “The third [question] is, when will you die? So if you can know when you will die, then we will know how many years from retirement up until you die.” (06:52)

• Jill on DIY Empowerment:

  “If time’s on your side, if you’ve got more than thirty years to retirement, you’re probably safe on your own.” (25:56)

• Jen on Fear of Doing it “Wrong”:

  “I was so worried about investing in the wrong things or scared to learn how to do it like I would do it wrong. So I thought I had to go to somebody to save me from that. But there is a lot of free information.” (25:50)

• Jill on Investing as a Spectrum:

  “Retirement investing is a different animal than investing for current income or day trading or crypto...Retirement, you can do. Maybe the other version is a little bit more level 201. But retirement can be 101.” (28:36)

• Jen’s S&P 500 Hot Take:

  "It’s basically a one-man Nvidia show with some supporting actors, you know...the thing that most people talk about is not always the best decision.” (31:56)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | | ---------- | ------- | | 01:54 | Series overview & today's retirement focus | | 05:02 | Why retirement is the most common reason for a CFP | | 07:00 | The big three (impossible) questions to predict retirement needs | | 08:07 | Conservative saver rules: 25x rule explained | | 10:55 | Expenses & personalizing retirement numbers | | 14:06 | Where to save for retirement: types of accounts | | 15:59 | IRAs for non-working spouses explained | | 17:34 | Prioritization: match, Roth IRA, then others | | 19:03 | High-earner considerations & CFP need | | 21:21 | Types of CFPs: consultation vs. asset management fees | | 24:20 | Triggers for professional help in retirement planning | | 25:49 | When DIY is enough + common fears | | 29:52 | How retirement investing is simpler than you think | | 31:36 | Target date funds: strengths and limits | | 32:12 | Index fund basics for IRAs and 401(k)s | | 35:18 | Rollovers and contribution limits explained | | 36:02 | Free resource reminder & next episode preview |

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Resources Mentioned

• Free Google Sheet for DIY Planning:
  frugalfriendspodcast.com/plan

• Find a Certified Financial Planner (CFP):
  frugalfriendspodcast.com/CFP

• Rollover Service (Capitalize):
  frugalfriendspodcast.com/capitalize

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Tone & Close

Jen and Jill encourage listeners at every step—emphasizing that most people can DIY their retirement savings, and that even small steps, consistently taken, make a big difference. The episode is peppered with humor, relatable stories, and the assurance that there’s no shame in paying for professional help as your situation gets more complex. Their parting message: whether you’re ready to DIY or want guidance, taking action now is the most important thing you can do for your future.

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Next up in Part 4:
Money-Saving Systems – automating and simplifying your financial plan for success.

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Transcript

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[Jen]

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[Jen]

DIY Financial Plan Part 3 Retirement Planning. Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast where you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity and live a richer life.

[Jill]

Here are your hosts, Jen and Jill.

[Jen]

Welcome friends. My name is Jen.

[Jill]

My name is Jill.

[Jen]

And welcome to part three of our four part series series on helping you DIY your financial plan.

[Jill]

We know it can be really confusing to know where to start, how to do it. Can I be focused on multiple goals at a time? To what extent should I be focused on those goals? So we are really just giving you what we think is a good template to follow.

[Jen]

And so today we are diving into retirement planning, which is the number one reason people go to see a financial advisor. I know when I started investing I thought I needed to work with a financial advisor in order to invest and I found out very quickly I could do it on my own. And maybe you can too. But there are going to be some triggers that signal that you're ready and should be working with a certified financial planner. So we are going to go through all the things we think are important in a DIY financial plan when it comes to retirement and, and reveal those triggers when you should move on to hiring some help.

[Jill]

In this series we are doing four 30 minute episodes covering financial goals and budget planning. That was part one, part two debt and emergency planning. This one is part three, retirement planning. And then we will be doing a final part four which is money saving systems. So make sure that you are subscribed to Frugal Friends so that you're alerted to be able to keep up with this series. And if you are listening while you are driving or folding laundry, we got you.

[Jen]

We see you.

[Jill]

Yes, that's great to be multitasking.

[Jen]

We're looking at you.

[Jill]

But yeah, there are things to be doing, to be writing down, to be gathering. But don't worry, we got you with a free resource. We created a Google sheet that has everything you kind of need, what we go through that you can [e-mail] Plan Plan.

[Jen]

Yes. And if at any time you're like, okay, I hear one of those signals that I should be working with someone or you're just like, I, I actually do not want to touch this at all. Like I'm, I thank you for educating me on it and I'm glad I know a little bit and I know enough to know I don't want to touch it. Then head to frugalfriendspodcast.com CFP and there you will find a resource to talk with a certified financial planner who has a fiduciary or obligation, responsibility and desire to help you plan your retirement in the best way possible for you. They are not focused on what gets them the biggest or best commission. And so that's why we're so passionate about working with the cfp. It's why we have pursued the certified financial planning marks and designation. So we are so passionate about that. But again, we understand that not everybody is ready for that or can afford that. But it is always something that should be in, in your head being like, okay, when am I ready for it?

[Jill]

So let's get into part three, which is retirement. This is the number one reason that people will seek out a certified financial planner is retirement and wanting to be sure that I've got what I need for, for retirement. And that's a great reason to seek out some advice and counsel and assistance. And it's the reason why we're giving Retirement, its very own dedicated episode. And yet we are still not gonna be able to cover all of the complexities that apply to every individual. So we're gonna be talking about retirement really broadly, giving you an overview, some of the foundational things to be considering to be able to start your plan. And we're going to include some of those complexities at the end that might trigger you to say, okay, yeah, that's my circumstances. This is when I would call a CFP to help me.

[Jen]

Yeah. And when we talk about investing for retirement, know that this is all for educational purposes. We are not giving you individualized advice because we don't know you if you need individualized advice. That's when you work with a certified financial planner. This is all going to be very general overview. So we would love to hear from you in the comments. But if you have specific questions for your specific situation, we cannot answer them in the comments. So we're just going to preface that. But we'll start out with the number one question that financial planners get asked and it's how much do you need to save for retirement? And that can actually be answered in three questions I will ask you. So first is what will you spend annually each year of retirement? So know what you will need to spend annually. Second, know how much will the stock market return in the years leading up to and throughout your retirement? So what's going to be the annual return every year in your retirement? And the third is when will you die? So if you can know when you will die, then we will know how many years from retirement up until you die.

[Host 1]

Done.

[Jen]

And that's how much you will need to save for retirement when you answer all of those questions. So obviously that's a little tongue in cheek because nobody knows when they're going to die. For the most part, nobody knows what the stock market is going to return ever. We can make an educated guess, but especially in the years leading up to your retirement and the years in retirement, we don't know what the stock market is going to return. And you don't actually know what you're going to spend every year in retirement. We try to make guesses based on of spending amount throughout every year of retirement that is consistent. When really the amount we spend is more like a smile. So we're spending more in those first, you know, couple years after retirement. It goes down when we're just chilling out, we've done all of our traveling and then it goes back up in our last couple years because of medical expenses. And so we just we can't answer those questions. So the best we can do is make the best educated guesses that we can.

[Jill]

So how can we make some of those better educated advice or better educated guesses? And some of that has to do with the advice of people who have been doing this for a very long time. There are some foundational principles that are really helpful to understand, to kind of know how will you choose to create the plan that you end up creating? So some people will want a very conservative answer. And that's where the 25 times rule comes in. And it's, it's simple. It accounts for inflation and it's a, it's a good predictor. So here's what you do. To do the 25 times rule, you multiply what you plan to spend in retirement by 25. Ding, ding, ding. There you have it. So if you think, I need $100,000 annually, you're going to multiply that by 25 years and 2.5 million is saved. And that is imagining that you will have what you need for the duration of your retirement to be spending $100,000 every year.

[Jen]

Yeah. And again, this is a conservative estimator. So a lot of recent data suggests that overall spending in retirement actually declines 1% per year. So we still have that smile. But overall, if we're looking at, if we're interpreting it as a line, it's actually going down overall 1% per year. So you could even be Safe with a 20x rule versus a 25x rule. And so what this, you know, you know, say you're needing $100,000 annually, and that's not accounting for inflation. So if you're spending $100,000 annually right now, you'll obviously need more than that in 20, 30, 40 years when you retire. But say it's $100,000, then when you are using the 25x rule, that's going to make sure that the $100,000 you take out every year does not touch that 2.5 million. It's literally just going to be off of the top. It's going to be, it's that 2.5 will be generating $100,000 of interest every year. And so maybe that's not what you want. Maybe you don't want. That's called capital preservation. Maybe you want capital utilization where you're using that thing down to zero. I'm not leaving for anyone.

[Jill]

No one's getting nothing from me.

[Jen]

So then that's a different calculation. And so you can play around with those numbers on your own. But the 25x rule seems to be the most conservative educated guess that people make.

[Jill]

And keep in mind there are people out there who will talk about you. You might, you might be spending let's say $100,000 right now and so that's what you think you might need and then you need to adjust that for inflation. But there's also a train of thought out there of saying most likely you might be spending less than that, maybe 80% of what you're currently spending. And the thought there is maybe your mortgage is paid off by then or you're not doing as much. So that's where a lot of that individualization really comes in. And if you're really uncertain, but you are in that position of planning. Yeah where a CFP might be helpful to really determine what think I'm going to be needing. And for that kind of smile curve of the the go go years, the slow go years, the no go years, and what the different amounts I'm going to be needing do. I want to be doing a ton of travel. So a lot of things play into this number. But again, general rule of thumb, if you're just kind of real young and just want to type in some math problems, do do 25 times. You know, whatever you think you're going to spend.

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[Jen]

where are we going to save for retirement? So you may have one option or you may have several. So if you are just starting out and you are maybe 18 and you're working at the movie theater on the weekends part time, then it's a really great time to open a Roth ira. It's an amazing time because that is going to be so tax advantaged, which will make more sense later on down the line. But that's, that's great. Or you might be working in corporate America where you have a 401k with the match. Maybe you have some employees stock options. Like maybe, maybe you're a key employee or a highly compensated employee.

[Jill]

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[Jill]

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[Jen]

You've got some extra bonuses, you know, so in that case you should be working with a CFP if you're at that, at that, that point. But regardless, there are some major key players in accounts where we keep our retirement savings. And I will use retirement savings and retirement investments kind of interchangeably because they will both go inside a retirement account but they are not the same thing as the account. So these major players are your employer sponsored plans. So you got 401k, 457, 403bs. These are accounts. And then you've got your individual plans which is your IRAs, your Roth IRA and your traditional IRA. Everyone who works. If you have some kind of 1099 W2, if you got something, you can have an IRA, but not if you're

[Jill]

married to someone who has a job.

[Jen]

Yes.

[Jill]

You can have an ira.

[Jen]

Yes. If you are a stay at home parent and your spouse has a W2 or 1099 or whatever earned income, you can also have a spousal IRA. So, and you can have your own. If you're, if you're married, you should have your own. You don't have, you know, a joint spouse, you know, ira. And then you may have access to an employer sponsored plan. But not every employer offers one of those. So if you have old 401ks 457s, 403s at jobs that you no longer work for, it would be very smart to roll those into a traditional or Roth area. Usually a traditional depends on the type of 401k you had. You can do that on your own, but that is one of the most confusing things that you will do. I did it on my own and I, I didn't mess it up. But at the very end I forgot to invest my rollover for a year and it just sat in a cash account. In my traditional IRA account, it just sat in a, in cash form and I lost out on a year of, of earnings. And so much easier to have somebody help you do that. Capitalize is a service that helps people rollover old 401Ks 403Bs 457 for free. And so you can access them at frugalfriendspodcast.com capitalize. And so yes, those are our main players for accounts. So how do we prioritize which ones and how we invest in them?

[Jill]

So if you have an employer sponsored plan and they are offering a match, you want to take that match, make sure you're getting it. That is compensation. And if you are missing out on that, then you are leaving compensation for your hard work on the table. So get the match if you're offered one. Next, invest in a Roth ira. This is a huge priority. Obviously there, well, not obvious. There are thresholds for being able to invest in a Roth ira. Most people with medium income are going to be able to do this. And maxing out the Roth IRA for 2026 at $7,500 per IRA. So if you are able to max it out, that is excellent. Doing that every year is going to be great. And then finally going back to your employer's plan to invest in maybe a deductible traditional IRA. Here's the thing though, both Roth IRAs and traditional IRAs have the same limit. So 7,500 in total. So we would recommend qualify for the Roth, that's what you should be investing in.

[Jen]

Yeah. If you are a high income earner, you don't qualify for the Roth, the high tax bracket, state, local tax. Then there are more advantages to these other accounts like 401k and traditional IRA. And a certified financial planner is going to help you figure out what's most beneficial to you. But even if you are maybe high, we, we just had a, a friend ask, asked us. He's on the edge of being ineligible for a Roth ira. And we think it's always good to have money in a Roth IRA just because down the line there's no required minimum distributions later on. There's just a lot of benefits to having money in a Roth IRA even if you have a higher tax bracket. So. But that is up to you and potentially financial planner to figure out what your balance is on that. So I truly believe no matter where you are, if you're earning over, you know, $200,000 in a year, you need to be working with a financial planner because those are decisions that you're going to have to suss out. There's no one right answer and there's no person on the Internet that can tell you, you know, like, you know, Roth IRA is the best for you. It may not be, but we do think it's worth having money in a Roth IRA and investing in a Roth IRA if you can.

[Jill]

Yeah, one is not necessarily going to be better than another, but one was going to be better for you than another. And kind of the ratios that you choose of how to invest in each one, that's also up to you. Depends on your situations. If you're in a lower tax bracket, obviously you're going to want to optimize the Roth options. If you live in a heavy tax state, then you may want to prioritize your deductible options because you can deduct. We'll talk about this later, but some of these contributions allow you. Or deductions would be the actual term for the amount that comes out of your money can be above the line. Deductions on your taxes. We'll talk about that in a bit. And if you hated everything that we just said, then it might be a trigger for working with a certified financial planner. And you have a choice of the type of certified financial planner that you work with. Whether you just go to them for consultation for help creating your financial plan. If you want them to manage your assets, they will charge usually a 1% fee on all of your assets. We don't think that that's necessary, but that is a decision that you are allowed to make. But even if you just have questions and you just want help with these things, there are CFPs who will do that and will work with you in that way.

[Jen]

Yeah, I think that's a very important distinction to make before we move on is that there are different types of of certified financial planners and different types of people. There are some people who do not want to manage their assets at all. They want somebody else to do it. And that's a advisor that would charge a 1% assets under management fee. There are other planners like us. We think that you can do it yourself. We want to advise you on how to do it and educate you on how to do it so that you can save that money and not pay an assets under management fee and just pay the fee to the planner. We think that's more cost effective. But not everybody wants to do that. And so that's why I don't think planners that charge just the assets under management are necessarily bad. There's a place for both.

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[Jill]

the triggers for when you might want to seek out a CFP in retirement planning would be if you are making any irreversible decisions with your money. Things that you know, no takey backsies. This would include Social Security decisions or if you have any employer sponsored retirement plans other than the ones that we mentioned. Sometimes once it's set up, there's things that you can't be changing. So that might be a time to seek out some professional advice when you are within 10 to 15 years of retirement. This one, we think, yeah, can nearly apply to nearly everybody. If you're not already working with someone, this would be the time make sure that we are on trajectory to accomplish what it is that we want to be accomplishing with retirement. Withdrawal strategy is something you're going to want to go through with that person. The margin for error is shrinking. So if you are caring for an aging parent and you are recognizing that there's a lot of demands on your money and you're not so certain that you're going to be able to achieve the type of retirement that you're looking for. A CFP could be useful in that situation. And if you're maxing out your work plan, your, your IRA accounts and you're curious, is there more that I could be doing or other things to be considering? That would be another circumstance to meet with a cfp.

[Jen]

Yeah, but for many young people, many people, DIY is totally doable if time's on your side. If you got more than 30 years to retirement, you're probably safe on your own. Right now you're in the accumulating phase. You have less than $100,000 saved, probably okay to start on your own and you're not maxing out your accounts, then don't worry about doing it wrong. I think when I started out I was so worried about investing in the wrong things or scared to learn how to do it like I would do it wrong. And so I thought I had to go to somebody to, to save me from that. But there is a lot of free information on the Internet on how to get started with investing that is like there is no shortage of it and good content too. So you can get started without a professional. It's just once we get into some of these complexities is where we don't want to sacrifice some of the money we could be making and saving because we don't want to be paying the, you know, two to $3,000 it costs to work with somebody. There is a bigger trade off at some point becomes more affordable to pay a professional than it does to lose out on that long term cost or savings.

[Jill]

I used to put investing into one huge bucket in my brain before I began understanding more about it. Probably before we even started our podcast. I just thought investing was this and it included retirement investing and it included the people who are investing for current income. And all of it just felt so mysterious to me and not super attainable and like I don't even know if I'd be able to do that. And now as I've learned more about it, recognizing retirement investing is a different animal than investing for current income or trying to time the market or doing day trading or crypto or any type of kind of alternative risky investment. Yes, they all do fall under like a similar umbrella. But one can be and this hand is retirement more of a set it and forget it. And this other one is not that I'm not saying that we can't be involved in this other investment investing for, for fun, for, for some current income for, for fun speculation. But we are not going to do that, my frugal friends, until we've got this retirement category real locked and loaded. Because that is the most important thing we're not moving over into how much money could I make off of my current investments to help me supplement my income until we've got retirement and this, this category you absolutely can do on your own if you're interested in this other one. Definitely we need to get some education. We need to seek some advice, make sure that we are doing things correctly, that we're understanding tax strategy. This one you have to be watching me.

[Jen]

I suppose her hands are very integral to the explanation. You'll see if you're watching the video. Yeah.

[Host 1]

So.

[Jill]

So all that to say if this is you thinking, oh yeah, I kind of always had this idea about investments just being really inaccessible. I'm hoping that distinction can help you to realize retirement you can do. Yeah, maybe the other version is, is a little bit more level 201. But retirement can be one on one. It can be understandable. You can do it. You are also allowed to seek out consultation and advice for it. But it doesn't have to be as daunting as maybe we think investments as a whole is.

[Jen]

Yeah. So I want to end this episode with just making a little explainer on what goes into your retirement accounts. And so if you have a 401k, you don't have a limitless number of options. Your 401k or comparable account is going to be pretty structured. They most, for the Most part every 401k has the same options. Really. If you have a 403B, I'm so sorry for you. Your options, they tend to not be as good but so we're looking typically when we get auto put into a 401k plan or comparable plan, typically a, it's automatically a target date fund. So that's going to take the year I think that you turn 65 or around within five years of that. And, and that's the date of the target. And it just starts out more stocks and slowly shifts to more bonds over that time horizon. And so that's where most account, like most retirement accounts will put you in one of those funds. And so your money will just, if you don't pay any attention, your money's just going to go into one of those in your 401k and that's totally fine. Don't think that they're pulling one over on you by doing that. I know some people are like, oh, they're, they're more expensive, they're too conservative. But if you don't want to be bothered, they're totally fine. If you do want to be bothered, you have other options as well. Most of these. And this is for, for IRAs as well. You'll have a total stock market fund which is like all 7,000 plus stocks on the US stock market are in this fund. It's very well diversified. You'll have an S&P 500 which nobody can shut up about.

[Jill]

But it's, I mean for decent reasons

[Jen]

but it's basically a one man Nvidia show with some supporting actors, you know, but it's a very Popular.

[Jill]

I love that take on the S&P 500. Brilliant.

[Jen]

Tell me what your take is in the comments. I only say that to say that the thing that most people talk about is not always the best decision. Like it's not always the most thought out decision. So you can look at these different, you know, our. A favorite among many financial experts are total stock market funds, total bond market funds, total international funds, and total international bond funds. So you get kind of everything across four funds. And even Fidelity offers those funds for free. No expense ratio. So if you don't have, if you haven't chosen a brokerage yet, then Fidelity could be a good one to go for for those Vanguard Schwab also great options. So the, the index funds are a really good option for the IRA. They're usually your only options within 401ks, but you can kind of look and see if and this is where a financial planner comes in. Real clutch if you don't want to travel down that rabbit hole on the Internet. But trust me, the rabbit hole is there if you desire to go down it. You can make a really, really intricately optimized portfolio that is still set it and forget it, but can be as customized as you want it to be.

[Jill]

And again, another really great reason to roll over any old 401ks 403s previous employer sponsored plans that you have. And you're not at that job anymore. It's not as if it, it's okay if it's still there and you haven't done anything with it yet though you haven't lost that money. But it might not be optimized, it might not be invested in the things that you want it to be invested in. And so doing a free rollover with a company like capitalize frugalfriendspodcast.com capitalize can allow you to roll that into a traditional IRA and be able to choose what that money is invested in. So it just gives you more control. Yeah, if you like control.

[Jen]

If you're looking in your 401k options and you're like, I don't see anything that you just talked about. You, I, I see four options. I see growth, I see conservative, I see, you know, I, then you might not have the best options in your 401k and, and that might be a sign to A prioritize the Roth IRA in your investing because it's going to be a lower fee and B, if you leave that job to roll it over as quickly as possible into something you control and you can choose the funds that you put in. And a lot, a lot of people also ask what's the difference between index fund and an etf? That is a question for outside of retirement accounts. Inside a retirement account, they both kind of work the same, so one is not better than the other. If you want ETFs in your retirement account, go for it. If you don't, you're not missing out on anything.

[Jill]

Also, those rollovers that you do, they do not count towards your annual contribution limits. So just know that if you roll it into a traditional IRA, you're able to do that separate apart from the $7,500 limit in 2026. And if you are listening to this while you're on a walk and you weren't able to take notes or you just like free stuff and you want additional resources to help you make your own starter financial plan, we've got you with a free Google Doc kind of going through all of the OR sheet, going through all the things that we've covered in part one, two, three and what we're going to be covering in part four. So frugalfriendspodcast.com plan for that and head

[Jen]

to frugalfriendspodcast.Com CFP to see what it would be like to work with a certified financial planner and the different ways you can do that.

[Jill]

And we'll see you in part four.

[Jen]

Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni.

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