Get Your Partner on Board With Debt Payoff Goals

Summary

Frugal Friends Podcast: Episode Summary

Episode Title: Get Your Partner on Board With Debt Payoff Goals
Release Date: December 20, 2024
Hosts: Jen Smith & Jill Sirianni
Produced by: iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction

In this enlightening episode of the Frugal Friends Podcast, hosts Jen Smith and Jill Sirianni delve into a crucial aspect of personal finance: how to engage your partner in achieving mutual debt payoff goals. Recognizing that controlling spending and managing debt can be a significant challenge, Jen and Jill offer practical strategies, personal anecdotes, and valuable insights to help couples navigate this financial journey together.

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Understanding the Unique Dynamics of Every Relationship

Jen and Jill begin by emphasizing that every relationship is distinct, making it challenging to offer a one-size-fits-all solution. They acknowledge that the nuances, circumstances, and barriers each couple faces are unique, necessitating personalized approaches to debt management.

Jill (07:30): "Every person is different. Every relationship is different. The nuances and circumstances and barriers are unique."

Jen (09:07): "If you don't feel seen in this episode, don't feel discouraged that it's not for you or not possible. Do what you can with the advice that we have for you."

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Key Strategies to Engage Your Partner

1. Start the Conversation ([07:11])

• Avoid Assigning Blame: Approach the topic without making your partner feel guilty or responsible for the debt.
• Choose the Right Time: Select a moment when both partners are relaxed and open to discussion.
• Stay Firm but Flexible: Clearly articulate your goals while remaining open to your partner’s perspectives.

Jen (07:11): "So this is a conversation where I've identified the top two to three things that I want his take on, I want his buy in on, I want his opinions on, I want him to be a part of."

2. Pick a Tangible 'Why' ([15:58])

Identifying a strong and tangible reason for paying off debt can significantly motivate both partners. This 'why' should resonate deeply with your personal and shared values.

Jen (16:15): "In order to choose whether I work or not, because I'd like the flexibility to stay home with my kids and foster... it was a super chill guy who was like, I love this person and I'm gonna marry them, you know, regardless."

Jill (17:54): "I want to be able to foster a kid someday.... These could be foreshadowing of values-based spending."

3. Choose a Payoff Strategy ([28:13])

Selecting an appropriate debt repayment method is essential. The two primary strategies discussed are:

• Debt Snowball Method: Paying off smallest debts first to build momentum.
• Debt Avalanche Method: Focusing on debts with the highest interest rates to minimize total interest paid.

Jen shares her initial preference for the debt snowball method but adapts to a more effective debt avalanche approach with her partner’s support.

Jen (28:13): "We used the debt avalanche method for most of our payoff, but some of it, when they had similar interest rates, we used the snowball."

4. Develop a Game Plan to Stick to It ([31:01])

• Identify Behavioral Shifts: Determine what expenses can be reduced or eliminated.
• Utilize Community Resources: Engage with supportive communities, books, and podcasts to stay motivated.
• Set Milestones and Celebrate Achievements: Create mini-goals and celebrate each milestone to maintain enthusiasm.

Jill (31:01): "Identify what will keep you on track. Maybe even telling your friends so that they know what's happening."

Jen (33:46): "Identify ways that we want to celebrate... Whatever way is going to help you get on the same team."

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Personal Stories and Experiences

The hosts share personal anecdotes to illustrate the challenges and successes of managing debt as a couple:

• Jen’s Journey: Jen recounts her experience of becoming engaged to Travis, who was proactive about paying off his student loans. Despite her own significant debt, Travis's supportive approach helped them embark on a seven-year journey to become debt-free.

  Jen (13:14): "He didn't place blame on me for what I was feeling. And it was like a good time to talk. We were engaged."

• Jill’s Experience: Jill discusses entering a marriage with $33,000 in student loan debt and how her partner’s willingness to collaborate made the debt payoff process smoother. They leveraged debt responsibly to achieve financial goals, such as paying for education and buying a house.

  Jill (42:41): "I married this man that he viewed it as our debt, our responsibility, something he was totally willing to help pay off."

• Challenges Faced: Both hosts highlight instances of financial disagreements and the importance of transparency and communication. Jen shares a humorous story about secretly purchasing a bottle of vodka, which led to a pivotal conversation about honesty in their financial journey.

  Jen (53:13): "I bought a bottle of vodka... I was buying its symbolism."

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Maintaining Financial Harmony Post-Debt

After becoming debt-free, Jen and Jill emphasize the importance of continued communication and mutual understanding to prevent financial strain:

• Grace and Flexibility: Allowing each partner to spend within a pre-agreed limit to prevent feelings of deprivation.

  Jill (49:23): "It's about starting with some of the values rather than just the numbers."

• Adaptability: Recognizing that financial plans may need adjustments due to life changes, such as emergencies or shifts in income.

  Hoda Kotb (35:39): "You are going to need that wiggle room if, especially if debt payoff is going to take you as long as it did for us."

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Conclusion

Jen and Jill wrap up the episode by encouraging listeners to tailor the discussed strategies to their unique relationships. They stress that successfully managing debt as a couple requires patience, mutual respect, and a shared vision for the future.

Jen (57:08): "Thank you so much for listening... If you have any tips, please take a minute to leave a rating and review."

Jill (57:30): "See you next time."

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Key Takeaways

1. Personalize Your Approach: Understand that every relationship has its unique dynamics and tailor your debt payoff strategies accordingly.
2. Effective Communication: Initiate conversations about debt without assigning blame and choose the right moments to discuss financial goals.
3. Identify a Strong 'Why': Establish a clear and tangible reason for paying off debt that resonates with both partners.
4. Select the Right Strategy: Decide between debt snowball and debt avalanche methods based on your financial situation and preferences.
5. Stay Committed: Develop a game plan, seek community support, and celebrate milestones to maintain motivation throughout the debt payoff journey.
6. Maintain Financial Harmony: After achieving debt freedom, continue fostering open communication and adaptability to sustain financial well-being.

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Notable Quotes:

• Jill (07:30): "Every person is different. Every relationship is different. The nuances and circumstances and barriers are unique."
• Jen (15:58): "In order to choose whether I work or not, because I'd like the flexibility to stay home with my kids and foster..."
• Jen (28:13): "We used the debt avalanche method for most of our payoff, but some of it, when they had similar interest rates, we used the snowball."
• Jen (53:13): "I bought a bottle of vodka... I was buying its symbolism."

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This episode serves as a valuable resource for couples striving to manage and eliminate debt together. By sharing their personal experiences and offering actionable advice, Jen and Jill provide listeners with the tools needed to achieve financial harmony and independence.

Transcript

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[Jen]

Finance agreement is due episode 469, getting your partner on board with your debt payoff goals.

[Hoda Kotb]

Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast where you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity.

[Savannah Guthrie]

And live a richer life. Here are your hosts, Jen and Jill.

[Jen]

Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen.

[Hoda Kotb]

My name is Jill.

[Jen]

And today we are talking about about a question that we get asked probably second most in our arsenal of questions. First is how do I save money on groceries?

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Jen]

And the second is how do I get my partner on board with debt payoff?

[Hoda Kotb]

And I feel like we like to talk about food.

[Jen]

Yeah. I feel like we've put off the question with enough episodes about food that we'll finally, ten days before the end of the year, tackle this one.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, why not?

[Jen]

Well, it is something that both of us have experience with either, you know, being I'm not 100% sure on who was first for you, Jill. I take a guess.

[Hoda Kotb]

But one was that's the vulnerability round. You gotta wait for that.

[Jen]

So we're going to speak from our unique perspectives on it to try to help you lead with grace and hopefully make 2025 the year that you really, really make some headway in your debt payoff goals. But first, this episode is brought to you by buying what yout Love without going Broke. You may have heard this sponsor before. It's our book that comes out in just a few short weeks, two weeks I think at this point and it is time for you to pre order it. In nine days we will be having our next live class where we are walking you through how to make a one year meal plan. And then on January 29th we'll walk you through how to make a one year spending plan. So you don't want to miss either of those live classes and you only get access to them by pre ordering the book. So head to buywhatyoulovebook.com in addition to how this book is going to change your spending habits and behavior for the rest of your life, pre order the book, join us at the classes and we'll see you there. BuyWhatYouLoveBook.com I love this one.

[Hoda Kotb]

Especially right ahead of the holidays, right before the new year. Now or never, baby.

[Jen]

Throw it into your cart. You know you're making a couple other purchases. Just throw em in. Okay. You got prime. Throw it in, throw it in. This is the only time I will ever tell you to do that. I promise you. I can make you that promise. Unless we write another book. Yeah, which won't be for a very long time. All right, so we have done several episodes about relationships. I don't consider myself a relationship expert, so I feel very uncomfortable talking about that. Jill can speak to a lot more than I can, so I wouldn't call.

[Hoda Kotb]

Myself an expert at anything. It's just the season I'm in. But yeah, I have worked with couples.

[Jen]

Licensed clinical social worker and someone who has counseled couples.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jen]

She's got. Yeah, let's, let's, let's take credit where.

[Hoda Kotb]

Credit'S due things, Jen. Thank you.

[Jen]

But we do have a few episodes in our archives, is what I'm trying to say. We've got episode 371, managing money with a partner with Julia Lilly, who is a certified financial planner. So she's got her expertise in there and working with couples on their financial plans. And then episode 311, keeping financial secrets from your spouse with Caroline Vensel. I wasn't here for that one. That was a maternity leave episode with one of my.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, she's just fun. That was a good one.

[Jen]

Best friends, Caroline Vensel, who came while I was on maternity leave. And yeah, out having a kid. It was. She, she has a fantastic story. Um, so I'm sure that episode was fantastic. But today we're talking specifically about getting your partner or spouse on board with the debt payoff.

[Hoda Kotb]

Okay, so this article comes from Experian. And listen, we don't love needing to get advice from the credit bureau agency, but it's the best we could find, honestly, on the first page of goog how to get your spouse on board with paying off debt.

[Jen]

And that's what we're all about. We take the first page of Google because that's what you're going to be looking at, and then we talk about it. And it's sad when you can't find something good on the first page of Google.

[Hoda Kotb]

It has enough that we can launch off of. But here's the thing, and potentially one of the reasons why we don't do an episode like this very often is every person is different. Every relationship is different. The nuances and circumstances and barriers are unique. And it is really hard to give one size fits all advice here. And because this podcast really is for the masses, it's a little bit more of a tenuous one. With that said, I think that there are some foundational pieces that we could latch onto. They might be helpful for you, but just know if you are running into barriers with getting your spouse on board with debt payoff or Other financial goals there. There's probably more happening that this is not gonna be your last stop point. This is hopefully a launching point to help give you some of the resources, some of the ideas, some of the questions to maybe launch off of and identify what's gonna work for you. But you are the expert on yourself. You as a couple are the experts on you as a couple. What works, what doesn't, the hiccups you find. So take this in context with what you know about your relationship and what's going to fit and what's just. Nah, that's not going to work for me.

[Jen]

And if you don't feel seen in this episode, don't feel discouraged that it's not for you or not possible. Do what you can with the advice that we have for you. And then again, move, move from there in a way that feels right for you.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah. So assuming that you are the person who wants to pay off Deb, and maybe you've got a reluctant partner, the first piece that is listed on this article is to start the conversation. And they list off some really simple things about avoiding assigning blame, which I would absolutely agree with. Choosing a good time to talk. Then they talk about staying firm. I'm a little bit iffy on this, but maybe more so looking at knowing where you're coming from and the things that you want to say and communicate is maybe how I would reword that one. I also think before starting the conversation, this is me adding in some pieces that it's important to identify what the situation is first. And this can be done on. On your own, you don't have to do this together. But looking at what is the debt made up of? How much debt are we talking? Where did this debt originate? So while we're not assigning blame, we do still want to work within the realm of reality. And where are the facts? Is the debt primarily student loan debt? Is it auto loan debt? Is it credit card debt? Did one of you come to the relationship with more debt than another? Was the debt accumulated since you've been together? Was it before you got together? The context of the debt I do think matters in the way that you move forward, whether you are the one who brought in the debt and you are the one who wants to do it, and your partner's just, I don't know, maybe ambivalent about it is different from your partner has credit card debt, ongoing, racking it up, you don't have any and you're trying to get them to change some behaviors. Two very different situations but still coming to this place of I want us to work on the debt. While the goal can be similar for you, the reasons for being there can have a lot to do with how we're going to tackle this thing. And then I think it's important to identify what you believe to be behind some of the hesitancy. What are the barriers that you've seen so far as you've tried to broach this topic or provide some sort of parameters or intervene? This too will help to inform how that conversation is going to go. What you're going to say in it. Is it just ambiguity, ambivalence? Is it? Yeah, okay, that's fine. But then you kind of never talk about it again. And so you don't really know what to do from here. Or is it, we've talked about it. They get very defensive and mad about it. They are not interested at all. Again, very different. And is going to inform how you approach it, the context in which you approach it, the things that you're going to end up saying. So much of what I'm describing right here is so individualized. And I would say if it is very heated and usually ends in a fight, you're probably going to want to bring in more than just this podcast episode. That could mean that you are seeking trusted friends to help you talk through it. It could mean going to a counselor. Not for a super long time. I think a lot of people think when they hear the word counseling that it's because there's this super big problem and we're going to have to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars or just hundreds of dollars even, and we're going to have to go for forever. And that' necessarily the case. If there's a very specific issue that you are looking for a solution on, you can look for counselors who can help you move through that with a very time limited kind of solution focused goal in mind.

[Jen]

Yeah. So I think I'll just draw from my own experience in talking through as we go through these steps. So for me, when we started the conversation, we had just gotten engaged and I was ambivalent. Like I Travis said he wanted to pay off his student loans and he didn't necessarily say he needed to pay off mine or that I needed to pay off mine, but he said that's what he wanted to do and that he was gonna do it. And I was like, cool, peace, like, have fun. That's a bummer. You're not gonna have a lot of fun for the next couple years.

[Hoda Kotb]

And you were Thinking, I'm gonna keep paying it off, but just paying the minimum payment. Or were you, like, who even cares if this goes into default?

[Jen]

I had no. I was gonna pay it, but I had double the amount of debt that he had. And I made less per year than what I had in total debt, like, significantly less. So I didn't see a path forward for me. And so he. In starting the conversation, he didn't make me feel bad about what I didn't see, that I didn't see a way forward for me. And I didn't state that. I didn't say that out loud. I didn't know. That's why, like, I wasn't open to it.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Jen]

At the time. So he didn't place blame on me for what I was feeling. And it was like a. It was a good time to talk. We were engaged. We probably should have had it before we got the conversation, before we got engaged. But he was just like a super chill guy who was like, I love this person and I'm gonna marry them, you know, regardless. Cause he had seen how my actions, spoke about how I spent money responsibly. And the debt was all student loan debt, not consumer debt. But he also. He was firm in that. He didn't let me sway him in what he wanted to do. And his first thing was to try to encourage me to want the same, because he realized he wasn't gonna force me to do this with him, but to make him to think about why he wanted to pay off his debt and make me understand the same opportunities that would present themselves to me if I did it as well.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah. Cool.

[Jen]

So which leads into the next part, which is pick a why. So, typically in personal finance talk, I kind of hate the. Remember your why all this? It's a very. It's not tangible and it doesn't help.

[Hoda Kotb]

When you're making your fingers sometimes.

[Jen]

Right. It's sand through your fingers. And it doesn't do a lot to help in the day to day, but in instances like this is when it is useful, because this was the conversation that we had when he was saying, what do you really want to do with your life? Like, if you could do anything with your life, what would you want to do? And I said, ultimately, I don't want to be beholden to an employer. I want to have the opportunity to choose whether I work or not, because I'd like the flexibility to A, stay home with my kids and B, foster. And fostering takes a lot of time. In addition to parenting. It takes a Lot of time in meetings and courts and all of this additional stuff. And I want to have the time freedom to do that, which means I can't be beholden to an employer. And so he pointed out that that was my why. It's like the thing that you want can be yours so much easier if you pay off your debt. This is one thing that which by doing it, can make the things you truly want that much easier to obtain. And that was my first ever experience with the one thing concept. And he didn't even know he was doing it. But it's why when I read about it in the one thing book, I latched onto it so strongly because I had already experienced how powerful it was.

[Hoda Kotb]

Well, and it's also, I think, a little bit of a foreshadowing of values based spending. Really being able to identify. I think that's where there's some really great partnering. Marrying, pun intended, with values based spending, to getting our partner on board with, with this effort is not making it feel like deprivation. Right. I know you talk a lot about for your circumstances, how that's what it felt like. I don't wanna live under a rock for the best part of my 20s. I want to be able to live and yet realizing you don't have to sacrifice the one or deprive yourself on the one in order to get the other. But that there could be a third option here where, yeah, we're reining in our spending and we're tackling this goal, but not totally abandoning other things that we enjoy in life. So that's where I think any other episode about values based spending can help in this too.

[Jen]

Which is why I don't love the things that they put down as a why in this article. Like to provide generational wealth and to feel safe in this space of financial emergency. These again, it's sand through your fingers. Your why has to be almost tangible. It has to honestly be tangible to be strong enough. Because our minds want instant gratification, they want to spend. Our minds do not want the why. And so the why has to be powerful enough and tied to enough meaning and value that it'll win out.

[Hoda Kotb]

Honestly for me, I think I go the other way with some of my whys so that the next time a catastrophic hurricane comes through, I have the money that I need to feel degrees of safety and security to know that I'll still put a roof over my head somehow, some way, because I don't have all my money tied up in loans.

[Jen]

Yeah, I mean, and that's tangible.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yours is like I want to be able to foster a kid someday. Mine is like I just want to be able to survive and I feel like everything's coming for me. Yeah, yeah. But things are trying to destroy has.

[Jen]

To be tied to something tangible. It cannot be something so elusive as, you know, a generational wealth.

[Hoda Kotb]

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[Jen]

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[Hoda Kotb]

Use and allows you to see all your finances in minutes and track your spending patterns at a glance. You can also share your account with your partner or even a financial advisor so you can have the clarity and peace of mind your money deserves.

[Jen]

After trying out Monarch for myself, I get why it's the top rated personal finance app and right now listeners of this show will get 30% off your first year when you go to monarchmoney.com frugal that's M O N A R C H M o n e y.com frugal to get 30% off your first.

[Savannah Guthrie]

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[Hoda Kotb]

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[Hoda Kotb]

The third thing that they recommend on here and I'm gonna put my own spin on it. But I'll tell you what they say have a budget night. Now if that doesn't just sound like the worst evening and I even like budgeting. But a budget date night? These words are so hard to put together.

[Jen]

I can't see Eric at a budget date night.

[Hoda Kotb]

No Eric. Eric would rather do so many other things with his time than a budget date night.

[Jen]

If the date night is budgeting, he's going to play music somewhere with the dudes.

[Hoda Kotb]

I cannot put that word on it in no way Know how. So here you go. I do think that it's going to take two, right? This is about getting your partner on board, not just like you doing things behind your partner's back and hoping it sticks and works. It is important to talk about it, but this is where what we were describing at the top of the episode of knowing who you're with and knowing yourself and figuring out what's going to be the best context to broach this topic, how will it benefit best be delivered to them? Is it going to be over a meal? Fantastic. Is it going to be when we're out on a walk? Go for it. Is it going to be when I pull things, pull out the computer and I'm able to kind of show real numbers and talk about some of the risks and financial instability that our patterns right now could lead us to? Fine. But not everything's going to work for everybody. I have learned over the years that for Eric, if I I love the spreadshee, love pulling out the pen and paper, I enjoy the highlighters. For me, this is, we're gonna get to the nitty gritty. He's pacing, he wants to be there. It's not that he doesn't like me or love me, it just is not his language. It doesn't excite him. He couldn't care less about the pennies. He's. He just kind of wants the bird's eye view and then just help me understand what I need to shift as a result of that. So I've learned that. So I'm not come into these conversations with my budgets and my spreadsheets and my highlighters. It's just a conversation where I've identified the top two to three things that I want his take on, I want his buy in on, I want his opinions on, I want him to be a part of. And that took me a while to learn that and get there. But knowing what's valuable to him, how he ticks and operates, has helped me tremendously in being able to have these conversations. So I would venture to say that a lot of times that's probably for a lot of us, where the hiccup happens is we're not taking the time to speak in the language of our partner or identify the correct context in which to do it and also check our own levels of regulation. Am I coming to this stressed, angry, blamey, irritable, or have I kind of come to my own place of here's how I would like to solve this problem, but also leaving room for some of the question marks Of I'm willing to shift and bend on these things because I want to hear what they have to say wherever it can also be collaborative and fit to your partner yourself. You guys, as a couple, these are some of the key items that are going to help make this work.

[Jen]

Yeah, I think this one and the last one are the most important. When you're talking about getting a reluctant partner on board is first figuring out both of your whys. And if you're the person trying to get your partner on board, you're going to have to do a really good job of honoring your partner's why. And it's in this quote unquote budget date that you continually check in to make sure you're doing that in the way that your partner receives it best. And you're continuing to make sure, like, we're doing this so we both get what we both want most in life. And if you're with a good partner, like, it's going to excite them as much that you're getting what you want as it should excite you that they're getting closer to what they want. Next is to choose a payoff strategy. So this one, the rest is really just like nuts and bolts, right? This is the fun stuff, and it's not supposed to stress you out. I remember when we started paying off debt, I was very adamant that we had to use the debt snowball method, because that's what I was told I had to do to be correct. And Travis was like, we will save more money if we use the debt avalanche here. And I was like, I can't, I can't, I can't. I've already. You told me to commit. I've committed, I've listened.

[Hoda Kotb]

Can't pivot from here.

[Jen]

I'm not emotionally stable enough to pivot yet. But with his support, I did get there very quickly. And we used the debt avalanche method for most of our payoff, but some of it, when they had similar interest rates, we used the snowball. So we used it interchangeably. And it's up to you to figure out what's going to be best for you. Avalanche, snowball, back and forth. When do we go back and forth? As always, like, we recommend if you've got high interest credit card or personal loan debt, that takes precedence over everything else. That that high interest stuff is very high. Luckily for most people, it's usually the smallest amount too. But if you're not in the lucky half, then it's one of those should probably grin and bear it sort of things. But again, it's up to you. That's just our recommendation. And don't forget, this is the fun part, because changing your behavior is not fun, but planning how to pay off your debt is the most fun you'll have. Paying off debt.

[Hoda Kotb]

This article doesn't mention it, but I will also add here. When we're talking strategy, I think it would also be worthwhile to talk about how you're going to stick to it. What will be the game plan to keep you both on the same team as you're doing this? And maybe some of the shifts that are going to need to happen that are heavy hitters and I wouldn't say try and throw everything at it yet. Identify some of the top things that you're going to shift or change or stop buying in order to help put more money towards debt. But also what's going to keep you on track? What do you know about yourself as going to be helpful to continuing to stay on this journey and not fall off? For many people it is finding a community and resources that will help keep your mind on this goal. So of course that's books and podcasts and it doesn't mean that this is forever and always what you have to be reading and listening about. But if you're in a heavy debt payoff season, now is the time to be downloading all of those personal finance debt payoff podcasts, hopefully that are still a little entertaining like yours truly, just to keep your brain on this because it is so easy to forget. Yeah, we had that really important conversation. We changed a couple of things for a few weeks, but I don't really know what happened. Our routine changed and so it's kind of out the window now. There's going to be a lot of different seasons that happen through an entire debt payoff season. You're going to go through summer and the holidays and unexpected life events and it's not always going to look the same. So identifying some of these through pieces will be helpful, maybe even telling your friends so that they know what's happening. They can help keep you on track to what you're doing and even check ins. What types of check ins are going to be helpful. Which leads to the final point on here, number five, which is to set milestones so this can be part of that strategizing of identifying this is the huge goal. But what are the miniature goals within here that we can feel a sense of accomplishment once we got there? Identify ways that we want to celebrate, whether that is free or a little bit of money that you're going to allow yourselves to spend when you do reach these different milestones along the way, whether you want a visual tracker to kind of help you keep track. Some people will color in balloons or, you know, if it is a college that you're paying off, you're coloring in the graduation hat.

[Jen]

I had a thermometer.

[Hoda Kotb]

The thermometer. That's fun too. I had a chain, a paper chain that we like hung through the house. I did that for a couple of things. I did that for how many days left of my bachelor's degree I had. And then when we were in towards more towards the end of our debt payoff. But I want to say each link represented about $100. So as we remove them, we could kind of see the chain getting smaller. So that's just. It's fun. It's a reminder to everyone in the household of what it is that we're doing. But you pick what's going to work for you and you pick how you want to celebrate because celebrating is going to be so important. It's another thing that's going to be bonding to you and your partner as you're working on together. I also recently saw friends of ours paid off their mortgage, which is so amazing. And they had a sign in their kitchen, like a chalkboard sign. And so every day they'd write down, like, I think it was the amount that they had left to go and maybe a day counter as well. So they'd kind of take turns putting the new number on the board as this visual reminder. And just whatever way is going to help you get on the same team, Be excited about it. Have things that you're looking forward to as you are doing something that can feel like sacrifice can be helpful.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

Do you know what else is helpful to me in a way that we kind of keep track of our episodes.

[Jen]

And it's never difficult like changing your.

[Hoda Kotb]

Spending behaviors, but it is bonding.

[Jen]

Yes.

[Hoda Kotb]

The bill of the week.

[Savannah Guthrie]

That's right. It's time for the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name is William. Maybe you paid off your mortgage.

[Hoda Kotb]

Maybe your car died and you're happy.

[Savannah Guthrie]

To not have to pay that bill anymore. Duck bills. Buffalo bills. Bill Clinton. This is the bill of the week.

[Jill]

Hello, ladies. Let's get right to it. For a very long time, I have wanted a full body mirror and not one of the five foot back of the door mirrors. I wanted one of the ornate, borderline, gaudy. Lean against the wall takes up way too much space. Kind of mirrors. And you can get those new for anywhere from $60 up from Walmart or Target. But I'm in the buy used your die kit camp. So I have been scouring Facebook Marketplace for a very long time. I decided this was worth $40 to me. I put aside the cash and negotiated, negotiated, negotiated away on Facebook Marketplace. Now, if you know anything about mirrors, apparently they go really quickly, they're in really high demand and people will pay for them. So it was a long time of fruitless searching until one day, one fateful afternoon, a girl posted a mirror for $20. That fell within my parameters of what I was looking for. If you remember from four seconds ago, I allotted $40 for this. And knowing how quickly mirrors go and what high demand they are, I went ahead and offered all of my $40 knowing I had set it aside for that purpose. Did I overpay? Technically, I guess. But it value based spending. My friends.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes.

[Jill]

Also, my name is Meg. I was so psyched to hear my review read on the podcast a couple weeks ago. Meg AKA Megalog. It was awesome. Y'all are awesome. Keep up the good work.

[Hoda Kotb]

Ugh.

[Jill]

I love you guys.

[Hoda Kotb]

Meg, you're awesome. No, you're awesome.

[Jen]

You're awesome.

[Hoda Kotb]

This was such a hyped up scene.

[Jen]

Because I also have one of those full length mirrors that sits on the floor and it is very tall and I got it from Facebook Marketplace but I got it from a hotel that was going out of business and so they had like 50 of them. Oh, that's cool. So I, I think I got like three of them.

[Hoda Kotb]

Amazing.

[Jen]

And then resold two.

[Hoda Kotb]

You're just a ball of fun. Also, Meg, this was very fun.

[Jen]

You are a true frugal friend.

[Hoda Kotb]

People say we like it's talking with our friends. This felt like I was listening to a voicemail from a friend which is all of our bill of the weeks. But I just feel like you especially get us Meg and you made us chuckle and we love that you just got right to the chase on this amazing story. Just a you're really great storyteller and I'm just here to compliment you now. And I bet you look phenomenal as you stare back at yourself in that full body mirror that you values base spent on bought used got on Facebook Marketplace with money you saved up. Did I already say that? I'm just stoked for you. Well done. So excited. If you all are listening to this and you have a bill about potentially paying double for something, but it didn't matter because you had the money and it meant you could get the thing that you've been patiently waiting for. Or your name is Bill frugalfriendspodcast.com Bill leave it for us. Hi everyone, it's Savannah Guthrie and Hoda Kotb from the Today Show. We love this time of year. There's so much to celebrate. That's right, nobody does the holidays quite like today all season long. Join us for special performances with the brightest stars, plus festive recipes to whip up the perfect holiday feast and great deals on the hottest toys and gifts for everyone on your list. So join us every morning on NBC to make Make TODAY your home for the holidays.

[Savannah Guthrie]

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[Hoda Kotb]

The following ad is sponsored by Pets Best Insurance Services. Your pet is your bestie, your therapist.

[Jen]

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[Hoda Kotb]

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[Savannah Guthrie]

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[Hoda Kotb]

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[Jen]

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[Hoda Kotb]

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[Jen]

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[Hoda Kotb]

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[Savannah Guthrie]

For all terms, visit petsbest.com policy.

[Hoda Kotb]

Here'S to the holidays. To baking cookies in matching pajamas. To decorating the house with paper chain garland. To gathering around the table for the holiday toast. And the Chinette brand is here to share in the joy of it all with the Chinette crystal collection. Your holiday table is perfectly coordinated so you can achieve elegance with less cleanup, letting you focus on what really matters. Here's to the traditions that bring us together year after year. Here's to us, all of us. Find a local [e-mail] and now it's time for the lightning round.

[Jen]

All right. How did you discover? Discuss debt matters with your partner, Jill. Okay, it's story time for you because I. I already said most of mine.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah. So I was the one with the debt. I came into our marriage carrying about $33,000 of debt, student loan debt. And we, since we were babies when we got married, that, yeah, that was what I entered into with. And we had talked about it before we got married. So he was aware. My memory, honestly, it's not that great. I'm trying to remember if we knew from the start that we were going to be trying to pay off debt. I think so. Like, I can't ever remember a time when I didn't care about it. It did feel weighty to me, and he was certainly on board. And I think, as I talked about at the beginning of the episode, that situation mattered in the context of paying it off because I felt kind of sole responsibility for this debt. And I was really amazed. And it's probably part of why I married this man that he viewed it as our debt, our responsibility, something he was totally willing to help pay off. That this was a financial responsibility for both of us now that we were married. So that was so kind. And I think I felt, yeah, really like, seen in it. But it was a factor for me to know I'm the one who brought this. This. You did not bring this. I really want it gone. I really want to be able to start. In my mind, it was kind of starting our financial life together with this gone. I can't wait till we can get to that point and build beyond together rather than me bringing this thing in. And here's where we're starting from. But this more collaborative piece. So he was there for it. But as you all know, we did not make a lot of money when we were first married. Oh, yeah. So this is interesting. I was still finishing up my final year of my bachelor's degree, so Eric was the only one working. I was going to school full time and then just like, stripping any extra electrical wire he brought home to get money for the copper life. It sounds like we were married and like the 1920s, if I were to describe, like, the way that we lived, but truly on a revolving basis, I think we had about $50 in our checking account. Like, no joke, we were. I don't know who let us get married. We were such children.

[Jen]

But I would agree.

[Hoda Kotb]

We figured it out. I mean, truly living on life, love. And here we are debt free. But so I. I don't think we, you know, they give you, I think 12 months at least at the time that was the case before you have to start paying back. So I definitely, we definitely did wait to begin paying it off until I got a job. And yeah, at that point, I was pretty ready to tackle it, but within the context of I'm making $24,000 a year and Eric, maybe 18,000 a year he was bringing home with his electrical business, it was just.

[Jen]

And how much were you making stripping wire?

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, well, since I was only doing that just like outside our front door, it didn't bring me much. Had I gone to, like, an established place to strip wire, maybe. Maybe there would have been more.

[Jen]

But you did get it paid off in 2020 at my house.

[Hoda Kotb]

At your house. I clicked that final button. Yeah. Yeah. It took seven years. And I will say, too, we took on more debt together, Eric and I, even in the midst of our debt payoff journey. We got a car, like a private car load for a vehicle for Eric's electric business. We took out a loan for part of the RV that we lived in. And I don't regret that we knew we wanted to be debt free. I did not like having debt, but I even looking back, don't see another way around trying to accomplish the financial things that we were trying to accomplish. Ultimately, we paid back. It was a very low interest rate, at least on the rv. We paid that back very quickly, and we sold the RV at a profit. The first time we sold the rv, it paid for my master's degree out of pocket. The second time, it was the down payment on our house. So I do think that we were able to leverage debt. Well, I do have some regrets about the debt that I took on for my undergraduate degree, but I was 18. But the debt that I took on in my mid to late 20s, I knew, like, we knew what we were doing, and I do think it helped us accomplish what we wanted to accomplish quicker.

[Jen]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

So that's how that went for us. But I will say I think I am very. I don't know. Lucky's not the right word, but I don't know, for lack of a better word. I'm grateful to have a partner who hasn't been pulling teeth with these things. I have had to learn how to have these conversations, how to get on the same page, how to negotiate, But I am not coming from a position where he was absolutely against it. So, yeah, I can't exactly speak to those circumstances other than to say, beginning to massage it. Begin with some of the values rather than just the numbers would probably be best.

[Jen]

Yeah. I think throughout our debt payoff, it was, for us, a lot, I guess, since I've already talked about the first part, I'll talk about the ongoing. It was a lot of checking in and a lot of grace because I didn't want to stop spending money and he didn't want to spend anything. He still doesn't really like to spend anything. So we were at odds, I think, just in our spending habits. We wanted the same thing, but it took me a lot longer to. It took me a lot longer than, like, even after we paid off our debt, to figure out how to spend money without feeling guilty or without just being like, eff it, I'm just gonna go crazy. So that was something. I struggled all two years. All two years we were paying off debt. It is. When you're starting something like a debt payoff, it's usually the beginning of your financial journey. And as a beginner, you will make more mistakes than any other time. And we will internalize these mistakes, like we're not meant to have success or that we're just not the type of person that, you know, that experiences that. And it's just untrue. True. It's getting through the mistakes, getting through the learning experiences and learning from them. That is what separates people who pay off debt from those who do not. And we had a lot of that over two years. And we. I remember one time, this is probably the most vivid memory I have, at least spending related is that I bought a. This is going to sound so bad. I bought a bottle of vodka and it was from St. Pete's first local distillery. And it was like the first run from the first distillery. And I was like, this is historic.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes.

[Jen]

And I bought. I bought a bottle.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah. And how much do you think the bottle was?

[Jen]

40.

[Hoda Kotb]

You think 40. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

[Jen]

Yeah. It wasn't cheap.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah. Uh huh.

[Jen]

But I wasn't buying it to drink like I was buying it. Symbolism.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh. I want you to finish your story. But I am gonna cut in here to say this is an interesting thing about you and the ways that you like to show support because you have a similar story through the pandemic about wanting to support local print and how you purchased a subscription to like. Like St. Pete Tribune or something. The Tamma Times. Yeah. And so that there's something deeper here for you in the meaning attached to some of these purchases. Local business. It's the first round. This is historic. Like I'm supporting local journal efforts.

[Jen]

It's not just local. It's like local to my city. It's St. Pete local.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's how you get her if you want her to spend money.

[Jen]

Yeah. Fiercely passionate.

[Hoda Kotb]

You're wearing a shirt right now about being local.

[Jen]

You've pinned me. You've got me.

[Hoda Kotb]

I.

[Jen]

That's how I. Yeah, that's how I spend my money. And so I bought it. But I didn't tell Travis because I knew he wouldn't approve.

[Hoda Kotb]

Same thing. You didn't tell him about the Tampa Bay Time subscription either. Does he know about the shirt you're wearing? Yeah. Okay, Keep going. This is actually thrilling to me. I don't.

[Jen]

I. I had forgotten about the Tampa Bay Times subscription.

[Hoda Kotb]

We didn't. I didn't.

[Jen]

Wow. And so he found it, obviously. We lived in a one bedroom apartment. Where am I going to hide a bottle of vodka? And we had like a. I just.

[Hoda Kotb]

Like not hiding it. So you can like take swigs in secret hiding. Because you just don't want him to know that you spent $40 on something that wasn't debt payoff.

[Jen]

Absolutely.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes. Okay.

[Jen]

Yes. I still. It's still. I don't think I've drank it. It's.

[Hoda Kotb]

No, I'm pretty sure you're still keeping it. Just like a memento.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, that's interesting. Like art. It's artwork to you. Yeah. Okay.

[Jen]

Okay. So he finds it. He's upset. And we had like a really. He was more upset that I didn't tell him. And so that was a big turning point in the journey in being willing to have hard conversations and not so much more guilt and anxiety and shame comes from secrecy.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Jen]

So that was a huge turn. So being completely transparent now.

[Hoda Kotb]

Well, and I think you're highlighting the importance of being able to discuss the barriers for both of you. What makes you nervous about debt payoff. And for you it sounded like restriction not being able to spend any money ever on anything that isn't for this one goal. And there's not much longevity to that. So it is important even if you are a person who like a Travis who very well could say no to everything else and just buckle down if your partner isn't, where is there wiggle room. And that could just include a certain amount of money that you give each other. You kind of allot in the spending plan to do whatever you want with. And I think for we did do this even early on, even making such minimal amounts of money, even as low as like $10, like you get $10 a week. There might have been months or only $10 for the month, but there was something for us to be able to spend on. Hopefully you can allocate more than that for for you listeners. But you are going to need that wiggle room if, especially if debt payoff is going to take you as long as it did for us. Again, seven years. Anyways, thank you all so much for listening. We hope that there was something helpful for you in this. We hope it's a launching point for you, gives you some ideas and we also love listening and reading. Reading, really? You're going to be listening to it now. These kind reviews, especially this one from Gabby Marr, says amazing and inspiring. Five stars. Great podcast with such relatable content. I've been following along for a few years now now that my husband and I are able to say we're debt free. Each episode hits differently now that we're on the other side of it all. Thank you for always making such helpful content. Congratulations. Congratulations, Gabby Mar, I'm so excited that you and your husband are debt free. If you've got any tips for us on how that happened, send an email, call in a bill of the week. Yeah, call in a bill, send a dm. Yeah, we'd love to know, kind of add on to this episode. How did it work for you? Because again, it's not a one size fits all Everybody's story.

[Jen]

Thank you so much for listening and if you enjoyed this show. If you have any tips, please take a minute to leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It helps potential new listeners know what they're getting into and what I like buying and what Jill likes buying.

[Hoda Kotb]

See you next time.

[Jen]

Bye. Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianna.

[Hoda Kotb]

Okay, what will Travis spend money on? Is there anything? Okay, I'm going to make it even more Specific. What will Travis buy? Guilt free? Like immediate. Yes. For him, no problem.

[Jen]

Clothes. He loves to thrift clothes. And he'll buy if it fits him and it's at the thrift store and he likes it. He gets it, no questions asked. So that's his thing.

[Hoda Kotb]

How often do you think he's doing that?

[Jen]

Not often, but he does have a lot of clothes and he shops way more than I do.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Jen]

So, yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

Nice.

[Jen]

Yeah, that's his thing.

[Hoda Kotb]

For Eric, it's eating out. That's the hardest part for him about spending plans and about efforts in reducing food costs and food waste is how much we eat at home. He's gotten really good at it, though.

[Jen]

He doesn't think your cooking is good enough.

[Hoda Kotb]

No. And that's the thing. And it's taken me some time to kind of separate the two things that he can love both and the one isn't throwing shade on the other. He's like, I do love the things that you make, but I like getting out of the house.

[Jen]

Yeah, you guys don't leave the house much.

[Hoda Kotb]

I do think a big part of it for him is getting out of the house. And I think he really does pair that with he likes to get out of the house to get food. I've tried to kind of introduce other ways of getting out of the house that doesn't require us eating out, but I like it too. I like to not cook sometimes.

[Jen]

Yeah, we all have our things.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yep. You can value that too. That's good. I'm hungry now.

[Savannah Guthrie]

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[Hoda Kotb]

Here's to the holidays. To baking cookies in matching pajamas. To decorating the house with paper chain garland. To gathering around the table for the holiday toast.

[Jen]

Cheers.

[Hoda Kotb]

And the Chinette brand is here to share in the joy of it all with the Chinette Crystal Collection. Your holiday table is perfectly coordinated so you can achieve elegance with less cleanup, letting you focus on what really matters. Here's to the traditions that bring us together year after year. Here's to us, all of us. Find a local retailer at mychinet. Com.