Higher Needs: What They Cost us & What To Do Instead

Summary

Frugal Friends Podcast Summary: Episode "Higher Needs: What They Cost Us & What To Do Instead"

Introduction

In the February 28, 2025 episode of the Frugal Friends Podcast, hosts Jen Smith and Jill Sirianni delve into the intricate relationship between our higher needs and financial habits. Drawing from their insightful talk at Nerd Night St. Pete and their forthcoming book "Buy What You Love Without Going Broke", they explore how unmet higher-level needs in Maslow's hierarchy can lead to unplanned and impulsive spending. The episode blends practical financial advice with relatable anecdotes, aiming to help listeners achieve a balanced approach to spending and saving.

Understanding Higher Needs and Spending Behavior

Jen and Jill introduce Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs as a framework to understand spending behaviors beyond basic necessities. They emphasize that while physiological needs (food, water, shelter) and safety needs (security, stability) are essential, higher needs like belonging, esteem, and self-actualization also significantly influence our financial decisions.

Jill Sirianni [04:26]: "When we don't value these higher needs to the extent that they need to be valued, we still spend on it."

By acknowledging these higher needs, the hosts argue that financial experts often overlook them, leading to a skewed perception that only basic needs warrant spending. This oversight can result in consumers neglecting the psychological aspects of money management.

Stories and Examples from the Audience

To illustrate their points, Jen and Jill share humorous and poignant anecdotes sourced from Reddit, highlighting how individuals spend money to fulfill higher needs:

1. Belonging and Love Needs:

   • Jill shares [12:24]: "When I was 11, I gave a girl I liked my holographic Charizard. She gave it to a boy she liked. I snapped inside. So sad."
   • Jen adds [12:58]: "I paid the extra $2.50 for stuffed crust from Domino's."

2. Esteem Needs:

   • Jill recounts [13:17]: "We spent on skincare routines, makeup, fitness products, luxury cars that don't work. But we can't afford the new luxury cars. So we're getting the oldie and it's lighting up like a Christmas tree."

3. Self-Actualization Needs:

   • Jen narrates [19:19]: "I went around and collected $2 from my coworkers for a surprise. I called a meeting and when everyone showed up they were greeted by a mountain of golden brown french fries."

These stories underscore how spending often stems from a desire to meet psychological and emotional needs rather than practical necessities.

The Impact of Marketing on Spending

Jen and Jill delve into the role of marketing in shaping consumer desires. They discuss Edward Bernays, the "father of public relations," who revolutionized marketing by creating demand for products rather than just raising awareness.

Jen [21:37]: "He began the practice of not just manufacturing products, but manufacturing desire."

The hosts highlight how marketers exploit our higher needs, pushing consumers to spend beyond their means to achieve fleeting satisfaction or social approval.

Strategies to Manage Spending on Higher Needs

Understanding the influence of higher needs on spending is only part of the solution. Jen and Jill offer actionable strategies to help listeners align their spending with their true needs without falling into financial traps:

1. Ask Better Questions:

   • Instead of blaming oneself or others, shift the focus to understanding the underlying need.
   • Jill [26:14]: "What need am I trying to meet through this purchase?"

2. Create a Dopamine Hit List:

   • Identify alternative activities that provide the same emotional satisfaction as impulsive spending.
   • Jen [26:53]: "If I'm doom scrolling Instagram, the solution is something of the same size but equal dopamine. Maybe playing a game, reading a book."

3. Align Spending with Life Seasons:

   • Recognize your current life stage (e.g., single, married, with or without kids) and tailor your spending habits accordingly.
   • Jill [27:27]: "Identify where the money can come in from there."

4. Individualize Your Spending:

   • There is no one-size-fits-all approach. Understand your unique needs and find creative, cost-effective ways to meet them.

Jen [32:12]: "We can meet our higher needs without spending money, but also there are ways we can meet our higher needs through spending money."

Listener Engagement: "Bill of the Week"

A standout segment in this episode is the "Bill of the Week," where listeners share their financial triumphs or struggles. One listener, Jen, shares her journey of paying off a credit card debt incurred from an unplanned Disney trip.

Jen [32:22]: "Back in 2009, we wanted to take the kids to Disney World. We signed up for a credit card with 0% interest for 24 months. It turned into a long-term debt, but I finally paid it off."

Jill commends Jen's effort, emphasizing the importance of understanding spending motives and finding alternative ways to achieve desired experiences without incurring debt.

Jill [33:49]: "If I have to go into debt for this thing, is there another way for me to be able to get after what I'm looking for?"

Conclusion and Takeaways

Jen and Jill wrap up the episode by reinforcing the concept of the "radical middle"—a balanced approach to spending that honors both savings and fulfilling higher needs. They acknowledge that financial decisions are deeply personal and encourage listeners to experiment and find what works best for them without self-judgment.

Jill [45:01]: "Understanding ourselves can help us to distinguish between what is it for me."

The hosts also promote their upcoming YouTube series, "Sunday Reset," and invite listeners to engage by sharing their own financial stories and questions.

Notable Quotes

• Jill Sirianni [04:26]: "When we don't value these higher needs to the extent that they need to be valued, we still spend on it."
• Jen Smith [21:37]: "He began the practice of not just manufacturing products, but manufacturing desire."
• Jill [26:14]: "What need am I trying to meet through this purchase?"
• Jen [32:12]: "We can meet our higher needs without spending money, but also there are ways we can meet our higher needs through spending money."

Final Thoughts

This episode of the Frugal Friends Podcast offers a nuanced exploration of how our psychological needs influence financial behavior. By blending theory with real-life examples and practical strategies, Jen and Jill provide listeners with the tools to navigate their spending habits thoughtfully. Whether you're striving to save money, adopt minimalism, pay off debt, or achieve financial independence, this episode offers valuable insights into the intersection of psychology and personal finance.

Related Episodes to Listen Next

• Episode 223: How to Design and Afford Your Dream Life
• Episode 220: How to Buy Happiness

These episodes further expand on balancing financial goals with personal fulfillment, making them perfect follow-ups to "Higher Needs: What They Cost Us & What To Do Instead."

Connect with Frugal Friends

Stay connected with Jen and Jill through their website frugalfriendspodcast.com and follow them on social media for more tips, updates, and community engagement.

---

Note: The summary excludes promotional segments and advertisements to focus solely on the episode's core content, ensuring clarity and relevance for new and existing listeners.

Transcript

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

AI is rewriting the business playbook with.

[Jen and Jill]

Productivity boosts and faster decision making coming to every industry.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

If you're not thinking about AI, you.

[Jen and Jill]

Can bet your competition is.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

This is not where you want to drop the ball, but AI requires a lot of compute power, and with most.

[Jen and Jill]

Cloud platforms, the cost for your AI workloads can spiral.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

That is, unless you're running on oci. Oracle Cloud Infrastructure this was the cloud.

[Jen and Jill]

Built for AI, a blazing, fast, enterprise.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Grade platform for your infrastructure, database, apps and all your AI workloads.

[Jen and Jill]

OCI costs 50% less than other major.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Hyperscalers for compute, 70% less for storage and 80% less for networking.

[Jen and Jill]

Thousands of businesses have already scored with oci, including Vodafone, Thomson Reuters and Suno AI.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Now the ball's in your court. Right now, Oracle can cut your current.

[Jen and Jill]

Cloud bill in half if you move to OCI. Minimum financial commitment and other terms apply.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Offer ends March 31st. See if your company qualifies for this special [e-mail] strategic that's oracle.com strategic sail.

[Jen and Jill]

To breathtaking destinations in Alaska or Europe.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

With Disney Cruise Line. Discover where onboard magic meets onshore adventures.

[Jen and Jill]

Where beloved characters Hiya pal. Meet alluring landscapes, where Broadway quality shows.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Meet historic cities, where imaginative dining meets.

[Jen and Jill]

Amazing wildlife, and where exciting experiences await the whole family.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Book an adventure filled summer Disney cruise.

[Jen and Jill]

To Alaska or Europe. In a world of economic uncertainty and workplace transformation, learn to lead by example from visionary C Suite executives like Shannon Schuyler of PwC and Will Pearson of iHeartMedia, the Good Teacher explains the great teacher inspires. Don't always leave your team to do the work that's been the most important part of how to lead by example. Listen to Leading by Example executives making an impact on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Hey y'all, I'm Maria Fernanda Diaz. When youn're Invisible is my love letter.

[Jen and Jill]

To the working class people and immigrants who shaped me. Season 2 shares stories about community and being underestimated. All the greatest changes have happened when a couple of people said, this sucks, let's do something about it.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

We get paid to serve you, but.

[Jen and Jill]

We'Re made out of the same things. It's rare to have black male teachers.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Sometimes I am the testament. Listen to when you're inv.

[Jen and Jill]

Visible on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jen and Jill]

Episode 489 hired what they cost us and what to do instead welcome to the Frugal Friends Podcast where you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity, and live a richer life.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Here are your hosts, Jen and Jill.

[Jen and Jill]

Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

My name is Jill.

[Jen and Jill]

And today we're doing something very fun and very different. Back In December of 2024, a lifetime ago, Jill and I got the chance to speak at Nerd Night St. Pete about our book. But mostly what we talked about was Maslow's hierarchy of needs and how ignoring our higher needs on that hierarchy causes us to spend unplanned impulsively. And it really deteriorates the power we have with money by not recognizing these higher needs.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

So we decided to share that talk with you all, which is very out of the norm because you will hear the audience throughout the talk, all the hecklers. Yup. You'll hear some cheering, you'll hear some answers, and we hope that you feel like you are a part of the crowd. It was a very supportive, engaged crowd, which we imagine you all to be wherever you're listening to us. So you can feel like you're a part of a group while you're engaging with this. So that'll be the first part of this episode is really just sharing that and how we move through the ways in which you might spend on your higher needs and again, the choices that you can make instead.

[Jen and Jill]

Yes. But first, this very special episode is brought to you by your March budget. Have you made it yet? It's only the 28th, but it is the last day of this month. I know it's come quickly. You just made February's budget or spending plan and now it's time to look at March. And hopefully you already have something kind of skeletal put together, so it's not going to be much work. But there are some things to be saving for in March that sometimes we forget. I think the biggest one for me is summer camps. It's already time to book summer camps. Maybe it's already too late for some, which I never realized until I started looking at them. So anything that you want to do for summer, now is the time really to be starting to put money away for so that you're not putting it on a credit card and then paying it off with interest later. Instead, get that interest for yourself by putting your savings into a high yield savings account. It's flexible. You don't have to wait like a CD to pull it out. You can pull it out in the summer when you need it. And our current favorite one is CIT. So head to frugalfriendspodcast.com CIT you're going to see an APY over 4%. No hoops to jump through to get that and we really enjoy it. So again, frugalfriends podcast.com cit and start saving for summer now.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Get that free money.

[Jen and Jill]

Yes. So a couple episodes that would be really good to queue up after this one would be episode 223, how to design and afford your dream Life and episode 220, how to Buy happiness. That was. I have a friend who doesn't listen to the show and decided to just listen to that one episode. That was the only episode he listened to and he like still references it to me because he liked it so much, yet did not listen to any other episodes.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

No other context, just this one.

[Jen and Jill]

He's like, that was enough for me. I loved it. I got the whole thing. My life changed.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

I understand your whole shtick.

[Jen and Jill]

So those are some really good ones. But yeah, I'm very excited to share this talk with you. It was so fun and I hope you feel like you were with us in that evening.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Yes. Well, let's get into it. I will say we start off polling the audience. You're going to hear us asking questions and answer them for yourselves too, whether in your head or aloud. Whatever you want. But that's where we're kicking it off and we'll see you back soon.

[Jen and Jill]

Enjoy.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

We're going to start off with a poll here. So show of hands, who here has ever walked out of a store having bought more than what was on the list or just you never even had a list.

[Jen and Jill]

Zero things on the list. Many things in the bag.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

How about bought some gadget appliance clothing item just because a friend recommended it?

[Jen and Jill]

Well, you got to get a recommendation.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

I mean same. Our arms are going to stay up probably. Have you ever made a purchase through an Instagram ad?

[Jen and Jill]

There were.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

You'll see. Yes, you bought something from seeing it.

[Jen and Jill]

On Instagram and nobody got paid to promote it. You just bought it.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Have you ever overspent on brunch with friends? Yeah, that'll get you even if you budgeted 20, it's like 150.

[Jen and Jill]

You budgeted zero and then you ended up there benefits.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

So we're going to talk about that. So apparently we're all in the same boat. Who we are. We're Jen and Jill podcast co hosts and co authors of buy what you love without going broke. So it's a new book. It releases January 7th. It's coming up so soon.

[Jen and Jill]

Yes. So we started Frugal Friends because we were really passionate about helping people save money. And this has evolved into helping people figure out what to spend money on. Because who was ever taught how to spend money? We were basically just told, if you spend money, you're irresponsible with money and if you save it all, that means you're good with money. But I love to spend money. And so we have made it our mission to find the radical middle between spending all your money and saving all your money and find that really good sweet spot. And so that is what our book is about. And that's kind of what we're talking about tonight.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Yeah, some of this is in the book. So here we go. Really beautiful triangle. One of our favorite shapes, Maslow's hierarchy of needs. So this was developed by Abraham Maslow, he was an American psychologist. And it's representative of all of our needs. So at the bottom we've got basic needs. This includes our physiological needs. Food, water, shelter. Above that comes our safety needs, our need for security and stability. And then above that come your belonging and love needs. I did look this up. Belongingness is a word. I didn't think it was, but I left it. I'm like, all right, it's correct. I know you all are going to fact check us. So this is your intimate relationships, your friendships. We all have this need for community following. That is our esteem needs. This is the need to feel accomplished in life, have some degree of prestige, feel confidence inside of ourselves. And at the tippy, tippy top of this triangle is self actualization. Now this isn't reaching some level of nirvana. This isn't, you know, transcendence. This is representative of us feeling like we're living into our full potential. It even includes spontaneity, having a need to be spontaneous. What we have found in the personal finance space is that so often experts stop here at the basic needs. You got your food, clothing, shelter, all of that. Get it covered. And beyond that, it's just a want and you shouldn't spend on it. But Maslow's hierarchy tells us something different, that we have more needs beyond these bottom couple of levels and we will spend to achieve them. So of course we've got to spend on the food, water, warmth and rest needs. But even subconsciously, without even knowing it, we will also spend to achieve some of these higher level needs, which we will get into.

[Jen and Jill]

Yeah, when we don't value these higher needs to the extent that they need to be valued, we still spend on it. There's a difference in the lower Levels. There's a difference between being hungry and not knowing where your next meal is coming from. Right. So if we don't know where our next meal is coming from, obviously we can't focus on these higher needs. But if I'm working on a passion project that I'm really loving, I can be hungry and forego food for hours to work on this project that makes me feel creative and innovative and like I'm living into my full self. And so this is how we spend on these higher needs without knowing it. And so we have some stories for you if you're like, how I. I don't really feel like I'm spending on esteem. Right. So we have a couple stories for you from each of these higher needs that just demonstrate how we spend on higher needs even if we're not specifically spending on the need.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

And they're silly and they do come from Reddit. Because where else do you turn to when you're curious? How are people spending on belongingness and love needs? Here you go.

[Jen and Jill]

So, yes. What are the things that we spend on when we're trying to impress somebody that we like and could potentially love to meet that need? Well, this person, when I was 11, I gave a girl I liked my holographic charizard. She gave it to a boy she liked. I snapped inside. So sad.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Another person said, I once made 15 pounds of chocolate chip cookies from scratch. This was all to receive love and affection.

[Jen and Jill]

That's a lot.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

It's a lot of cookies. I'm sure I'd be sad about that.

[Jen and Jill]

But I paid the extra $2.50 for stuffed crust from Domino's.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

We're not saying that it's a bad decision. It's just buying.

[Jen and Jill]

Sometimes you gotta flex. Sometimes you gotta flex to be low.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Okay, but how might we then spend on our estate? Here's some examples. While on a trip in our 2013 BMW X3, it suddenly popped up a check engine. No biggie, I said. Just called BMW support and they said to continue driving. Little did anyone know, when we were just miles away from our hotel, the BMW started catastrophically breaking down into a spiral of warning lights like it was Christmas in April. Wah wah. BMW could get you there.

[Jen and Jill]

I just like that because when we're spending on esteem, we're not specifically spending and saying, oh, this will raise my self esteem. This will raise my self confidence. What we're doing is we're feeling a lack of self esteem and we're spending out of lack. So we're spending out of lack of self confidence, lack of feeling like we're being respected by people in our lives. And so what comes from that is we're spending a lot of money on skincare routines, makeup, fitness products, luxury cars that don't work. But we can't afford the new luxury cars. But we still need a luxury car to be respected. So we're getting the oldie and it's lighting up like a Christmas tree. Another thing we'll do is hobbies. We'll spend to start hobbies because if I'm doing this hobby, then I'll feel more creative, I'll feel better about myself. And sometimes that might be running or weightlifting. And then you buy all this, what we call procrastina spending. Instead of starting the hobby, you buy all the things for the hobby, like the nice running shoes. And then you never use them and they end up on Poshmark at a discount.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Gotta resell them. I really hope that they did resell them.

[Jen and Jill]

2000 solidations creating a solid financial plan for you and your family should include term life insurance. That's where Fabric by Gerber Life comes in. Fabric offers flexible term life insurance to give you peace of mind and protects your loved ones financially in case the unexpected happens.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Fabric by Gerber Life is term life insurance you can get done right from your couch, all online and on your schedule. You could be covered in under 10 minutes with no health exam required.

[Jen and Jill]

This is an important thing to do, especially if you've got kids and certainly if you're young and healthy. The time to lock in low rates is now. Even if you have life insurance through your employer, it may not offer enough protection for your family and it may not follow you if you leave your job.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Join the thousands of parents who trust Fabric to help protect their family. Apply today in just [e-mail] frugal that's meatfabric.com frugal M E-E-T fabric.com frugal policies issued by Western Southern Life Assurance Company not available in certain states. Prices subject to underwriting and health questions. If you're in a food slump, struggle to cook at home or just in a really busy season. We Recommend Trying out HelloFresh, who are now the owners of EveryPlate. With an even greater variety of meals. You can now enjoy the goodness of both brands with a frugal friends discount.

[Jen and Jill]

HelloFresh cuts out the need for meal planning and grocery shopping and offers 50 wholesome meals to choose from each week, delivered straight to your door. Plus they have new options for ready made meals that take just three minutes to prep.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

I personally love HelloFresh for the opportunity to learn new skills in the kitchen and try flavor combinations I never would have thought of. It makes eating at home much more efficient without sacrificing flavor or health goals. Plus it helps me reduce food waste.

[Jen and Jill]

Get up to 10 free meals and a free high protein item for [e-mail] hellofresh podcast one item per box with active subscription free meals applied as discount on first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan. That's up to 10 free HelloFresh meals. Just go to hellofresh.com hellofresh podcast hey.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Y'All, I'm Maria Fernanda Diaz.

[Jen and Jill]

My podcast when youn're Invisible is my love letter to the working class people.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

And immigrants who shaped my life. I get to talk to a lot.

[Jen and Jill]

Of people who form the backbone of our society but who have never been interviewed before. Season 2 is all about community organizing and being underestimated. All the greatest changes have happened when a couple of people said, this sucks, let's do something about it. I can't have more than $2,000 in my bank account or else I can't get disability benefits.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

They won't let you succeed. I know we get paid to serve you guys, but like, be respectful. We're made out of the same things. Bone, body, blood.

[Jen and Jill]

It's rare to have black male teachers.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Sometimes I am the lesson and I'm also the testament. Listen to when youn're Invisible as part.

[Jen and Jill]

Of the Michael Tuda Podcast Network, available.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jen and Jill]

I started to live a double life when I was a teenager, responsible and driven and wild and out of control. My head is pounding. I'm confused. I don't know why I'm in jail. It's hard to understand what hope is when you're trapped in a cycle of addiction. Addiction took me to the darkest places. I had an AK47 pointed at my head. But one night, a new door opened and I made it into the rooms of recovery. The path would have roadblocks and detours, stalls and relapses. But when I was feeling the most lost, I found hope with community and I made my way back this season. Join me on my journey through addiction and recovery. A story told in 12 steps. Listen to Crumbs as part of the Michael Lura Podcast Network. Available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Okay, but how might we spend on self actualization. Here's an example again from Reddit. It was Saturday night and I had no plans. I ran into my old roommate, he was wearing giant minotaur horns and convinced me to come with him to a fairy tale themed RA at some warehouse. I quickly ran to the Halloween store, bought some wings and some face paint obviously, and headed toward the venue. Besides it being the best party of the year, I must have been stopped for photos about 20 times and even got a free slice of pizza for making the guy at the pizzeria laugh. Wow. Spontaneity.

[Jen and Jill]

Money well spent in my opinion. Not not bad, right?

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Free slice of pizza. Take it.

[Jen and Jill]

All right, for this story. It was a rough week at work, so I went around and collected $2 from my co workers for a surprise. I called a meeting and when everyone showed up they were greeted by a mountain of golden brown french fries. Amen. Blessings to that person. So one of the for self actualization, we really do think of it as like this transcendence. Living in your passion, working for some philanthropical company or whatever that is. But it is truly just feeling like you are living your true self, your full self. That you're able to act on your own desires independently, that you're able to be creative. You're able to buy your coworkers a mound of fries on your own or with everybody else's money.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Here's the issue though. So we do have these internal needs and Maslow's hierarchy of needs kind of tells us that, and they all matter. While we should be focusing on definitely achieving the bottom level, we also need to be valuing some of the higher level needs. But what also happens is marketers are aware of all of our needs and they will play and prey upon these needs to sell us something. We are so conditioned to buy our way out of problems to purchase the solutions to problems we do spend to solve. We've been social in this way. We spend to meet our needs and marketers will take advantage.

[Jen and Jill]

And here's how it's not all our fault. It's not. Since the late 1800s, since the industrial Revolution when it became much more affordable to manufacture large quantities of things, we have been conditioned to buy larger quantities of things. So the Industrial revolution happened late 1800s. Around the 1920s, we meet this man with this weird mustache. His name is Edward Bernays. Has anybody ever heard of Edward Bernays?

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Oh heck yeah. Couple people knew we'd find my guy.

[Jen and Jill]

My guy. For those of you who haven't heard of Edward Bernays, has anybody heard of Sigmund Freud. Edward Bernays is Sigmund Freud's nephew. So he used much of Sigmund Freud's work on psychology to use it in marketing. My favorite fact about Bernays is that he's considered the father of PR public relations. Originally he was the father of propaganda, but he saw that that was headed in a bad direction. So he PR'd himself and spun it to be the father of public relations. But since the 1920s he has been. When he was alive, he was hired by companies to increase desire for products because there were so many more products. And marketing at that time was pretty much just for awareness. And what Bernays did was along with awareness. He began the practice of not just manufacturing products, but manufacturing desire. So even if before you knew about the product you didn't know you had the problem, he's going to tell you you have a problem and this product is the solution. Take cigarettes for example. In the 1920s, women did not smoke cigarettes, but they were a huge part of the population that the cigarette companies wanted to get smoking. So what Bernays did was he capitalized on the suffrage movement that was emboldened, had just gotten women the right to vote. And he said, you've just gotten this little piece of equality. If you want more, then do what the men do and smoke. And so he positioned cigarettes as literally torches of freedom. That's what he referred to them as in marketing. Hired women to march in the Easter parade in New York City smoking these torches and freedom to make it acceptable in public. And it got women smoking.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

And so when we are able to mass produce products at a cheaper price and the demand isn't there, what to be done? We manufacture demand, we manufacture desire, which is how we got to this picture here, which is actually a crazy hot buy down in South St. Pete. I don't know if anybody's been there before, but it's like an Amazon return store and it's wild and probably wear a mask. But this is what leads to a great degree of overconsumption. Okay, so what can be done? What do we do about this? Because we do have needs and all of them matter and we do have a need for spontaneity. And we don't think impulse spending, we don't think impulse spending is wrong and we want to be able to spend well. We believe spending is a skill, a skill that can be learned. So the first thing that we recommend to people is to ask ourselves some better questions. One of the things we like to avoid is asking the why question. That can really put us on the defense. It's the difference between asking my husband, why did you spend so much at the music store? What's going on? That's automatic fight mode to what is it about the music store and the things that you just purchased that you love so much? Changes the whole dynamic from I gotta justify this shame guilt to hmm, let me think about that a little more. What need am I trying to meet through this purchase? And possibly is there a better way to be able to meet that need? Do I have to spend money to solve all of my problems? Do I have to buy my way towards meeting my needs and that can exercise some of that creativity need that we have, the self esteem, the belonging need. You might actually more fully meet the need when we pause and ask these questions rather than just jumping to let me throw money at it.

[Jen and Jill]

Yeah. Dopamine also plays a partner impulse spending. So we want to play into that too. So creating a dopamine hit list. So if you find, if you go back through your transactions and find I. A lot of my impulse spending happens at night when I'm scrolling on Amazon or doom scrolling on Instagram, then creating a list of alternatives, alternative things you can do that get you that dopamine hit that are the same size. So if I'm doom scrolling Instagram and bed, the solution is not to get up and go for a run at midnight. Right. The solution is something of the same size but equal dopamine. So maybe playing a game, reading a book. I just took up embroidery. So what?

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

I didn't even know this.

[Jen and Jill]

I know it's very recent.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Okay, so yeah, I bought the things first.

[Jen and Jill]

Yes. So finding your dopamine hit list, maybe your, your impulse spending comes from browsing farmers markets or going to like outdoor malls or indoor malls. I don't know if that's still your thing. But then finding equal activities. So maybe then that is exercising or going for a walk or a bike ride. So figuring out, playing around and getting creative and seeing what works for you.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Another important thing to do here is to align your spending with your season. So are you a student? Looking around, I'm going to guess not. We're maybe in our careers, students of life.

[Jen and Jill]

I'm with you students, but we're all learners.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

We're all learning together as they really are. They should have cut off my microphone. Oh, my gosh. But we're inclusive.

[Jen and Jill]

We listen and we don't judge.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Are you a homeowner? Are you married with kids? Are you married without kids? It's going to look different. I have a husband. He is still married to me, I hope. But we don't have kids. It's. And so our spending and our wise, beneficial decisions are going to look different from Jen, who does have kids. And they're wild, but they're beautiful. And I think this is where we can recognize that we can individualize our way of spending and allocating all of our resources, not just our finances, but our time and our mental capacities and our physical energies. All of it needs to kind of come together with the season that we're in and recognize that it's not going to look the same for every person. There is no one size fits all in the situation. But to recognize your needs, to value them, to find creative ways of meeting them and then identify where the money can come in from there. Well, that was really fun.

[Jen and Jill]

I still like to talk about the ways that we will spend money for like love and belonging. That Reddit thread you couldn't There was too many funny ones to list on the slide of just the bizarre things people have spent money on to attract somebody they are interested in or to make friends with a group of people they wanted to be friends with.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Yeah, it's.

[Jen and Jill]

And we're talking about like the funny ones, but there's sad ones as well that we didn't talk about. But we'll just keep it light.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

When I was doing research for this this episode, before we made the decision that we're just gonna insert our nerd night talk into this episode, I found there was a study that Charles schwab did in 2019, so older but probably still relevant. If I were to poke some guesses at this, where they found that 48% of millennials spent more than they could, quote unquote, affordable in order to participate in experiences with friends. And I think that especially in our generation, we do value experiences more than things, but we will still spend beyond. I think we've attached a hierarchy to that it's better to buy experiences and have memories than to have things collecting dust on your shelf. But in reality, if it is hurting ourselves financially and we are not taking the steps to find even more beneficial ways to meet our needs, then there's no better or worse on whether or not you have things or you have experiences.

[Jen and Jill]

Yeah, well, I think it's as we get older, I think it is flip flopped. I think people are spending a lot on travel, not even to go with friends or to gain community, but for that self actualization piece to feel, you know, autonomous, independent, creative, spontaneous and all of that is really great and can be one of those ways money can buy your higher needs unless it is trying to meet all of them. There really does need to be a diversity in how you are achieving your higher needs too. Cause I think if we're only pursuing that this like glamorous idea of traveling and experiences that can leave us unfulfilled as well.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

It can. Yeah. Especially if we're only doing it just because other people say this is what you should want to do.

[Jen and Jill]

Yeah. Cause it can bring all of this, you know, X, Y, Z. But it's at the expense of deepening relationships with people or achieving things that do actually increase your self esteem.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

But do you know what meets my highest need of creativity? Spontaneity. Self fulfillment.

[Jen and Jill]

Yes. It makes me feel very self fulfilled. Self actualized.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

The bill of the week.

[Jen and Jill]

That's right. It's time for the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name is William. Maybe you paid off your mortgage.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Maybe your car died and you're happy.

[Jen and Jill]

To not have to pay that bill anymore. Duck bills, Buffalo Bills, Bill Clinton.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

This is the bill of the week.

[Jen and Jill]

Hey, Jen. Hey, Jill. This is Jen calling again. This is my third bill of the week, but I had to share. I'm sure y'all are sick of hearing from me, but anyways, back in 2009, we wanted to take the kids to Disney World. So we signed up for a credit card with 0% interest for 24 months. We had every intention of paying get off in 24 months. Well, that didn't happen. We continue to use IT and added 23% interest rate.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

It continued to rack up.

[Jen and Jill]

I started listening to you guys a while back and it lit a fire in me to pay this credit card off. My kids were 6 and 9 when we took this trip and now they're 21 and 24. So I'm so proud to say I finally paid off that trip. Thanks, Jen. Way to go. I never get tired from hearing from you because it's always good. This is such an accomplishment and a testament to how our human brains can have the best intentions. And even as fully grown adults, we still can make decisions that are opposite the things we say we want to do.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Yeah, man. I mean, there's so much here. First of all, just congratulations on paying off that credit card bill. It sounds like it took a while. There were habits that intersected all of that. But it's paid for. But I think also to kind of highlight what we've also been talking about here, of the reason for taking out that credit card, not only does it look really appealing to have 0% for a couple of years, but that only matters if we then pay it off within that time. And so that is the trap. It's why credit cards will do that, because they know there's a pretty high chance that we won't pay it off and we're gonna end up paying that 24% interest. But the good desires that you had of having meaningful time with your kids, your family, experiencing that kind of love and belonging probably met some of your esteem needs. I truly hope that it was a really lovely Disney vacation. But I think it's a good thing for us to kind of think through. If I have to go into debt for this thing, is there another way for me to be able to get after what I'm looking for, that experience I'm looking to have with my family? But congratulations. Thanks for sharing. Thanks for being vulnerable with us in this bill of the week. If you all listening, have a bill that you want to share. If it's about paying off a credit card, choosing not to get a credit card, ways that you're meeting your higher needs without paying any bills. Frugalfriendspodcast.com we can't wait to hear it. Hey y'all. I'm Maria Fernanda Diaz. My podcast when youn're Invisible is my.

[Jen and Jill]

Love letter to the working class people.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

And immigrants who shaped my life. I get to talk to a lot.

[Jen and Jill]

Of people who form the backbone of our society, but who have never been interviewed before. Season 2 is all about community organizing and being underestimated. All the greatest changes have happened when a couple of people said, this sucks, let's do something about it. I can't have more than $2,000 in my bank account or else I can't get disability benefits.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

They won't let you succeed. I know we get paid to serve you guys, but like, be respectful. We're made out of the same things. Bone, body, blood.

[Jen and Jill]

It's rare to have black male teachers.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Sometimes I am the lesson and I'm also the testament. Listen to when you're invisible as part.

[Jen and Jill]

Of the My Cultura Podcast Network, available.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or.

[Jen and Jill]

Wherever you get your podcasts. I started to live a double life when I was a teenager. Responsible and driven and wild and out of control. My head is pounding. I'm confused. I don't know why I'm in jail. It's hard to understand what hope is when you're trapped in A cycle of addiction. Addiction took me to the darkest places. I had an AK47 pointed out my head. But one night, a new door opened and I made it into the rooms of recovery. The path would have roadblocks and detours, stalls and relapses. But when I was feeling the most lost, I found hope with community and I made my way back. This season. Join me on my journey through addiction and recovery. A story told in 12 steps. Listen to crumbs. As part of the Michael Lura Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Welcome. My name is Paola Pedrosa, a medium and the host of the Ghost Therapy podcast.

[Jen and Jill]

Where it's not just about connecting with deceased loved ones.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

It's about learning through them and their new perspective. Join me on the Ghost Therapy podcast.

[Jen and Jill]

Whoa. My lights in my living room just flickered.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

I'm a little nervous.

[Jen and Jill]

I'm excited. I'm excited nervous. You know, I'm a very spiritual person, so I'm like, I'm ready and open.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

That was amazing. I feel so grateful right now. I got to speak to my great grandmother Abela, and she gave me a.

[Jen and Jill]

Lot of really good advice that I'm.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Gonna have to really think about.

[Jen and Jill]

Wow. Okay. That's crazy. Yes, that is accurate. Listen to the Ghost Therapy podcast as part of the My Cultura Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

I'm Mark Seale. And I'm Nathan King. This is Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli.

[Jen and Jill]

The five families did not want us to shoot that picture.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli is based on my co host Mark's best selling book of the same title. And on this show we call upon his years of research to help unpack the story behind the Godfather's birth. From start to finish, this is really the first interview I've done in bed. We sift through innumerable. 35 pages isn't very much. Many of them conflicting.

[Jen and Jill]

That's nonsense.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

There were 60 pages and try to get to the truth of what really happened.

[Jen and Jill]

And they said we're finished.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

This is over. Not only is not going to work.

[Jen and Jill]

You gotta get rid of those guys. This is that.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli features new and archival interviews with Francis Ford Coppola, Robert Evans, James Caan, Talia Shire and many others. Yes, that was a real horse's head. Listen and subscribe to Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now it's time for the lightning round.

[Jen and Jill]

All right, today's vulnerability round. What's your favorite way to spend on your higher needs? Jill has just deleted her answer.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Well, now I feel like I can't say this. I will, I will tell you that I wrote Travel with Friends because here's the thing. I do really enjoy it. It's a good way.

[Jen and Jill]

Yeah. And I, I won't even say solo. Even solo traveling for self actualization. Still a good way.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Yeah.

[Jen and Jill]

To spend money to meet your higher needs.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Right. It just is, you know, very classic millennial right here. But I. My some of my most favorite experiences, best memories with Eric and friends truly are when we're traveling together. But I do think part of that is because of the dedicated time spent together and something that I've also been realizing. So to temper this, that still is going to be true. And I still will travel with friends. But to not tempt everyone to go get credit cards and pay for this thing that you think is going to provide you with amazing experiences. I think recognizing that dedicated time where you can really enjoy and share a significant portion of an experience with somebody is really what I enjoy. And there are ways of getting that outside of hopping on a plane and going somewhere with people. That is also renting an Airbnb for the weekend and everyone chipping in for food. That is going camping. That is spending a whole afternoon going on a hike together. That is having people over for dinner and they're hanging out for a few hours, uninterrupted by a bunch of wait staff and a crowded room where you can't hardly hear people out at a restaurant. So there are other ways that I get this experience and not spend money, but yeah, I also don't mind saving up for and spending on this category as well.

[Jen and Jill]

Yeah.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

What about for you?

[Jen and Jill]

Travel is not one of my highest values, which makes me a very weird millennial. I still love to do it. It's just not something I love to do with young kids. My children, My youngest does not travel well, so it is a nightmare. So I would say right now, I think my favorite way to spend on my higher needs. This is gonna sound really bad, but stay with me. Well, I guess it's unfulfilling work. I think I've really enjoyed being in this season where we're actually spending a lot of money in the business, which is very uncharacteristic for us, and it's really inspired creativity in me. And it's given a good, healthy pressure to get more creative because we are having to justify spending this money. And that has been a good. We've been doing kind of the same thing for a year. So it's feeling really good right now to do something that is just the next step.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Oh, I agree. The release of the book has felt like a metaphorical release as well. Not just the physical book being out in the world, but really feeling the freedom now to pursue other things. That everything was kind of tied to the book for so long and we had obligations and responsibilities to not just writing it, but marketing it and talking about it. And you'll still hear us talking about it because we're super proud of it and we think it's going to help people, but also now that it's in the world, it's out there and our hands are now open to pick up something else. And where I thought that I was just going to feel so tired, I actually feel so invigorated to step into something different. And the freedom of that. And like you're saying, I agree, the investment, like being willing to put money into something that you're excited about that is bringing about some of this, like, invigoration and creativity. Yeah, that's worth a lot.

[Jen and Jill]

I mean, there's something to be said for spending money on stuff like this, because do we have to? That was always our first questions, like, do we have to spend money on camera equipment? Do we have to spend money on lighting? Do we have to spend money on an office? And the answer was always no and still is no. We don't have to to make things function. But now that we have, we have sparked creativity and given ourselves, like, healthy pressure and time constraints to work more creatively. Just like in the book, the story, the study you referenced where they were given parameters, they were able to work more creatively and innovatively. And I really believe that that is what we have given ourselves.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Yeah, I do think there's such a both and here, which is connected to that radical middle idea that there are ways in which we can meet our higher needs without spending money. And that's true. And there are ways we can meet our higher needs through spending money. And that's true. And that's the paradox that can make this message, like, hard to deliver, because it's kind of hard to grasp, like, well, which is it? And it depends. Debt is neutral. Right. And sometimes some debt is going to be more beneficial for a person, and that same debt might be detrimental for.

[Jen and Jill]

A Different person in the same amount from the same wonderful thing.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Yeah. But it is what we're saying, that both can be true. And that's where really understanding ourselves can help us to dispute, distinguish between what is it for me. And I think that there's trial and error here. And I think it's one of the reasons why we don't have to be so down on ourselves for maybe quote unquote financial mistakes or poor financial decisions that we've made because it helps us to find what's right for us. We're not going to hit it 100% all of the time. There were times where it was right that we were really scrappy with the business and we didn't spend on X, Y, Z thing. And I also think it's right that we spent some money on some cool comfortable chairs to build out a video studio swivel, because it's invigorating us to create something that we think is gonna really help people and also is fulfilling for us. So there are times that it's worth investing and it's times that it's worth saving.

[Jen and Jill]

Absolutely. Yeah. No.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Look at us just growing, growing and.

[Jen and Jill]

Discovering little business owners.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Yes. Well, thank you all for listening so much. We hope that somewhere in this podcast episode you got something that is relevant for you and your life and that you are able to navigate the both and of your experience. And in addition to the podcast, as you know, we've written a book, Buy what yout Love Without Going Broke. And people are leaving us some really kind reviews for the book like this one from Rosie G. It's five stars and says, I've listened to the Frugal Friends podcast for years. It's like laughing with friends over coffee in the morning. Fun and helpful. I've received an advanced copy of the book and thought, what more could I get that I don't get from the podcast? The book is like getting more serious and sharing more personal things once your armor has gone down. After the laughs, it makes you really try to uncover more deeply the psychological aspects of money without the usual self reprimands and shame. That's big because shame and embarrassment is literally the definition of money for some of us. I appreciate that I could learn more about myself and money in a safe space. It also included the put into practice aspect with actionable steps that just move things forward. It's easy to read and I appreciate that recommend for anyone embarking on the journey of having healthy finances.

[Jen and Jill]

Oh, thank you so much, Rosie. That's so sweet. I'm so glad that we really did balance that serious versus, you know, fun kind of line, and that's really what we tried to do in the book. So thank you so much for reading and thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this show, we would so appreciate if you would leave a rating and review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts wherever you're listening to this. And if you've read the book either from you've bought it or read it from the library, we would appreciate if you would leave a review on Amazon or Goodreads that very much helps us get the word out and let people know potential new listeners or readers know what to expect from us as content creators.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Yeah. Thank you so much for listening. Thanks for reading. See you next time.

[Jen and Jill]

Bye. Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

What's your favorite thing that we've bought for the business in the last six months?

[Jen and Jill]

In the last six months. I mean, I could say my favorite thing ever is the neon sign.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Yeah, but that wasn't the last six months.

[Jen and Jill]

I know. We bought that a long time ago. My favorite thing is possibly. Is it the other neon sign?

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Wait, are you asking, Like, I've got an answer that's correct and you have to find the answer?

[Jen and Jill]

Kind of. Yeah.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

No, just your opinion on, like, what's your favorite thing?

[Jen and Jill]

Okay, my favorite thing that we've bought from.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

It's not I Spy.

[Jen and Jill]

It's the Office. It's the office, for sure. But also the other neon sign that we put in the window that says on air. It's also pink neon. I love that. And it's guarded by our Flamingo Queen. Yeah, Queen Flamingo. She doesn't have a name. She's Flamingo Queen. She wears a crown.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

She.

[Jen and Jill]

And pearls and pearls and a diamond. And I don't know why, but here she is.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Yeah. Jill, I mean, I would agree with you on the Office, but for the sake of variety, I will say these chairs.

[Jen and Jill]

Oh, yeah. High up there.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

We. We splurged. We got. We got a little spendy. We were looking for chairs. We were looking on Facebook. Marketplace could not find any. The right size, the right shape, right color.

[Jen and Jill]

Color scheme was actually very important. And comfort.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

And we did have a bit of a time crunch, so we gave ourselves a couple of weeks to look, but in the end, we really did just need to pull the trigger. And I think we were hoping to spend, like, I don't know, 400 total.

[Jen and Jill]

That was on the high end.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

800 total.

[Jen and Jill]

You're telling them?

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

I am. Because listen. Whoa. We're at the very end. We're at the end. This is post show. These are the people who won't judge us, really love us. It was a business expense, which is still real money, which means the government.

[Jen and Jill]

Pays for it, so it's fine.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

So it's free.

[Jen and Jill]

They bought it for us. And thank you. We thank them for that.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

But it is. It is perfect.

[Jen and Jill]

I'm just obsessed with these chairs and I can't wait.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

YouTube channel.

[Jen and Jill]

Watch. Yeah, subscribe on YouTube. You are about to see them.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

It's about to hit March 3, I guess, of just a few more days.

[Jen and Jill]

Yeah. So we'll be announcing it officially on Tuesday, but I guess we can tell you guys now. Yeah, why not Sunday? We are launching a new program, I.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Guess a new series.

[Jen and Jill]

Yeah.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

It's called the Sunday Reset, which we love. Because who doesn't love the inspiration that we all need when what can happen on Sundays is the scaries. Instead, we're gonna be there for you every Single Sunday on YouTube with video, where it's a little bit shorter of a video episode where we're going to be talking about our meal plan for the last week. So the things that we had just cooked with links to recipes, so you know that we liked them and our families liked them. We're going to be talking about a money move we did that week. So some of them are going to be big, some of them are small. But hopefully all will be a little inspirational.

[Jen and Jill]

Bring us forward, some of them bring us backward.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

A money move might be a money failure, you know, because we're not perfect. And then a listener question. So we've already begun compiling some listener questions, but that's another way that you can be engaging with us. Have your voice heard, get some of your own questions answered, is by submitting questions to us. The best way to do that at this point is through the friend letter. So frugalfriendspodcast.com you can sign up for the free friend letter and then email us through that.

[Jen and Jill]

Well, don't email.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Well, like respond to the email, because.

[Jen and Jill]

Those all go to my inbox.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Well, that's a lot. There you go. You're gonna need it.

[Jen and Jill]

Nope. There's gonna be special avenues that we're gonna set up.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Yeah. But for right now, for right now, you've got a question. All right, DM me. I handle the Instagram account, so follow Frugal Friends podcast and DM me.

[Jen and Jill]

I just got a lot of emails.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Okay. Don't email Jen. Follow me on Instagram and I'll respond to you.

[Jen and Jill]

We're going to create a channel for.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

The questions like I'm flying fast and loose over here.

[Jen and Jill]

We were not going to announce right now, so the channel doesn't exist.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

But it will. It will just. And in the meantime, just don't email.

[Jen and Jill]

Me because I am close to the edge and I'm trying not to lose my head. Thank you.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Yeah. Well, I'm excited about the YouTube series and you will be seeing it in just a few days.

[Jen and Jill]

Yeah. And that is the first. That is the first YouTube series that we're hoping to start. We're hoping to add another one in a few months as well, which we're not going to dive into yet. But I think we may have alluded to that. We've alluded to it a little bit.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

But just subscribe to our YouTube channel and you'll get alerted to.

[Jen and Jill]

Yeah, search frugal friends on YouTube and series drop. Get ready for the first Sunday reset. Coming at ya this Sunday.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Pew, pew, pew, pew.

[Jen and Jill]

See ya.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Bye.

[Jen and Jill]

With amex, there's always a new experience to explore. From curating the perfect vacation and chilling.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

In the Centurion Lounge before you get.

[Jen and Jill]

There, trying out that new trendy restaurant.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Thanks to Priority Notify with global dining.

[Jen and Jill]

Access by Resy and getting straight to the action at the big game with card member entrances at select venues with AMEX Platinum, you can experience it all. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Access to the card member entrance not limited to the American Express Platinum card. Learn more@american express.com with AmEx. In a world of economic uncertainty and workplace transformation, learn to lead by example from visionary C Suite executives like Shannon Schuyler of PwC and Will Pearson of iHeartMedia. The good teacher explains the great teacher inspires. Don't always leave your team to do the work that's been the most important part of how to lead by example. Listen to leading by Example executives making an impact on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Hey y'all, I'm Maria Fernanda Diaz. When youn're Invisible is my love letter.

[Jen and Jill]

To the working class people and immigrants who shaped me. Season 2 shares stories about community and being underestimated. All the greatest changes have happened when a couple of people said, this sucks, let's do something about it.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

We get paid to serve you, but.

[Jen and Jill]

We'Re made out of the same things. It's rare to have black male teachers.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Sometimes I am the testament. Listen to when you're invisible on the IHEARTRADIO app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jen and Jill]

Jon Stewart is back at the Daily.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Show, and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast.

[Jen and Jill]

Dive into John's unique take on the.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports, and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the show's correspondence and contributors, and with extended.

[Jen and Jill]

Interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed?

[Jen and Jill]

Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts.

[Maria Fernanda Diaz]

Or wherever you get your podcast.